Do Facts Matter?

[deleted account] ( 46 moms have responded )

While watching FOX and Friends this morning, they were talking about the latest article from the associated Press, on Sarah Palin. Apparently her book is factually incorrect in many respects. She makes statements in the book that are just not true and flip flops on issues that she was once in favor of. She was a Mayor, Governor and VP Vandidate. She may run in 2012 for President of this country. Does it matter that her perception of the truth and facts is skewed or is this another "liberal media" slam of her because she's so "mavericky"?

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Dana - posted on 11/24/2009

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Quoting Traci:

Um...helloooo!!! As VP you are NOT a leader. It is not YOUR office, it's your prez's. The man you choose to work for. You guys are so wrong on that. Granted, that's not the way things "should" be, but it's the way they are.



You should always act as a leader, no matter what postition you are.  Maybe someone should "Um....hellooooo!!!"  you.

Amie - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Traci:

I have yet to find the quote of Palin saying "real Americans" are the only ones she cares about....she quit as governor so that the attacks would stop. The outsiders wouldn't leave her the hell alone and it was hindering her abilities to serve. She never used her kids as props. They came with her, she's proud of them, she did nothing any other politican didn't do with bringing her family out with her. There is so much wrong with that statement, Mary...I don't even know where to begin. Was she supposed to stick 'em in a closet away from public view? Obama didn't. What an unfair assessment.

You know...depending on what is going on in the country...if things go as they have in the past year...I wouldn't be so sure that she couldn't win. The tides are turning for your guy....and they are only getting worse. In times like these the incumbents get ousted...Better be careful what you wish for.


Ok so let's play what if...



 



What if Palin ran in the 2012 election and won?



What if then "the outsiders" didn't leave her alone again and it was "hindering her abilities to serve"?



What is she going to do then? Quit? Yay! The first female president! Oh shit, she's quitting guys, she couldn't handle the pressure from "the outsiders". Good grief.



She is not a woman any young lady should look up to for that fact alone. My children don't give up in the face of controversy, they actually work harder to overcome it. Guess Palin missed that lesson when she was a kid though. Or maybe her parents didn't teach her. Either or... LAME.

Jeannette - posted on 11/21/2009

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I would just like to say this...and I am being completely honest here.....THAT IS WHAT MAKES HER A POLITICIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From Obama down, facts are strewed, misused, and not at all facts....and....it gets them elected!!!!! Now, get out and vote!

[deleted account]

I find it interesting that droves of people, some of whom had waited on line all night, have bought her book. While watching the news, many of her fans were expressing their wishes that she run in 2012. When asked how they felt about the McCain campaign staffers basically rebuffing everything she said about them and the news that the book was "factually challenged" (bailouts, campaign funds, misuse of taxpayer money, etc) they didn't seem to mind. They kept saying that she was a strong woman, mother and role model. They said she was more qualified than Barack Obama to be President.



I know she's a politician and by definition that should mean "liar", but I actually think she believes her own lies (which is very dangerous). I also don't like the way she defers blame to everyone else except herself. Finally, she seems to know nothing about past or current history. Shouldn't the person running for the Presidency of the United States know something about the United States, like oh...the constitution, foriegn policy, the law, etc. All I know for a fact is that she can shoot a wolf from a helicopter.

Laura - posted on 11/20/2009

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When it comes to Sarah Palin I'm done listening to any media's thoughts on her. I haven't bought the book, probably won't for awhile, and I hope that she doesn't run in 2012. But to me the media has looked for any and every little thing to knock her down with and has been so incredibly horrible towards her and her family that I'm not listening not even if they are telling the truth. I think she has a lot to offer and I think she has a lot to figure out for herself on how she wants to present herself. I've changed my mind on issues once I've heard and seen a little more. Do we want public figures that are stoic and unchanging? I don't know what topics she's flip flopped on but if it comes from the heart and is an intelligent switch then so what. Her foreign policy, who can blame her, yeah she needs to bone up on it but hasn't Obama made a few faux pas' and he has advisors. Plus what's with Levi getting all the attention that he's getting. Isn't he in Playgirl or something, saw him on something with John Gosslin where they were answering questions giving opinions, I didn't watch long enough to learn what it was about and then I saw him on a facebook ad. What does that say about our media and society. Raise up the kid who left the girl he got pregnant behind for whatever extended 15 min. of fame he can get and throw the intelligent, well meaning, hard working woman under the bus because a certain segment of people don't agree with her.

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46 Comments

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Pamela - posted on 04/13/2011

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In my opinion, Sarah P is on the same level as the Donald. Romney is by far the better candidate (though I don't care for him). Even T-Paw would be better than Palin & Trump.

Jane - posted on 04/13/2011

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Yes, facts matter! And Palin doesn't seem to have much in the way of facts. Be that as it may, so far the potential Republican candidates are Mitch Romney and Donald Trump. Can Palin be much worse?

Jane - posted on 04/13/2011

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Yes, facts matter! And Palin doesn't seem to have much in the way of facts. Be that as it may, so far the potential Republican candidates are Mitch Romney and Donald Trump. Can Palin be much worse?

Jane - posted on 04/13/2011

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Yes, facts matter! And Palin doesn't seem to have much in the way of facts. Be that as it may, so far the potential Republican candidates are Mitch Romney and Donald Trump. Can Palin be much worse?

Jane - posted on 04/13/2011

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Yes, facts matter! And Palin doesn't seem to have much in the way of facts. Be that as it may, so far the potential Republican candidates are Mitch Romney and Donald Trump. Can Palin be much worse?

Pamela - posted on 04/13/2011

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"Um...helloooo!!! As VP you are NOT a leader. It is not YOUR office, it's your prez's. The man you choose to work for. You guys are so wrong on that. Granted, that's not the way things "should" be, but it's the way they are."

Regarding this statement: Vice President is still a position of leadership - answerable and accountable to the President - but still a position of leadership.

[deleted account]

Agreed Pamela. If she couldn't take those ethics investigations (and I'm not saying they were justified or not), can you imagine her reaction to what Obama dealt with from the Birther crowd?

Pamela - posted on 04/12/2011

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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008...



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/17...



So Ms. Palin did speak of "real" Americans. She did also clarify what she meant. I think it is important for those who seek higher office in this country to guard what they say. Palin sometimes spoke without (or at least it appeared without) much thought and it bit her.



Regarding the fact that she quit her job as governor part way through her term, does not speak well of her. The fact is, if you seek to go on the national stage, you will be placed under intense scrutiny - every politician is. She all the more because she is a woman. It sounded to me like she was being investigated because there were ethical issues on her part that needed to be looked at. As my grandma frequently stated, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". McCain chose a woman who wasn't as prepared as she should have been and she did not do well. I don't think she'll run - if she does, she'll lose. To her credit, she can field dress a moose. But that is not a qualification for political office. Bachmann has a much better chance (God have mercy on us).

Jennifer - posted on 04/11/2011

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Lot of unflattering quotes attributed to Palin are acutally not accurate.

Traci - posted on 11/24/2009

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Some dude makes an inspiring speech at the DNC and then the dems start drooling like a bunch of groupies at a NKOTB concert...that is all that was.

Traci - posted on 11/24/2009

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Which is scary since he hadn't actually accomplished anything....never run a city, a state, or a business.

ME - posted on 11/24/2009

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I actually predicted that Barack Obama would be the next president in 2004...but whatever...

Jenny - posted on 11/23/2009

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Not exactly, should something happen to the President you need to be very quickly ready to be a leader.

Traci - posted on 11/23/2009

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Um...helloooo!!! As VP you are NOT a leader. It is not YOUR office, it's your prez's. The man you choose to work for. You guys are so wrong on that. Granted, that's not the way things "should" be, but it's the way they are.

Amie - posted on 11/23/2009

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I agree with Dana on the last point. To make a good leader you need to show initiative and that you have your own mind. If you can't do that then you will never be a good leader. Standing up to your superiors is not a bad thing, you do not have to swallow whatever they shove at you. Weak people do that. My husband would not hold the highest paid position if he swallowed whatever the higher ups fed him. He would not be one step away from management if he just followed whatever they told him. I would not be where I am and moving up in the ranks if I just followed and did not lead. This is basic and simple for any person in any field. It is even MORE important in the political field for someone who may one day want to run for President.

Theresa as for the media, that's only people who support her near as I can tell. Anyone whom I talk to away from her supporters agree it's not the media, it is her. I also agree just because you like someone that doesn't mean they are qualified to run a country.

Dana - posted on 11/23/2009

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Quoting Traci:

 When your superior is for something, you have no other choice but to swallow and applaud them. I do not think she would support that on her own.



Then she's obviously a follower and not a leader, which would make her a horrible president.

Traci - posted on 11/23/2009

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Well, if you are referring to her "support" for the bailouts, I think she only did that because she was #2 on the ticket. I don't even think Joe Biden and all of his yahoo comments would go and not support something that his #1 on the ticket is supporting. I do not fault her for what she is saying now in regards to the bailouts. When your superior is for something, you have no other choice but to swallow and applaud them. I do not think she would support that on her own.

[deleted account]

It should be acknowledged that Sarah Palin gave birth to a down syndrome child. It was brave of her not to have an abortion. I know plenty of women who would have. But I also know plenty of women who have kept their babies even with complications and/or didn't get pregnant after 35 years old because of the risks. Sarah Palin is not an original.

Anyway, we are deferring from the original question...Do facts matter? Sarah Palin criticizes Obama's policies, yet doesn't offer anything concrete of her own. When she does make a comment on something, it's usually wrong and misdirected, yet people are blaming the media for her missteps and not her! Something is wrong when you can be shown a clip of how she supported the bailouts and then said she didn't and nobody cares!

You can like someone because you admire them. Does that make them qualified to be President?

Traci - posted on 11/23/2009

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I would say there are a lot more reasons that young women should look up to her, Amie.

For one, she went through with her pregnancy even though she knew the risks to her child. You wanna talk about quitting? She could have had an abortion and wiped her hands clean. But instead she listened to her conscience, gave that baby a chance at life, and now has a gorgeous baby boy who brings her and her family joy. I'm sure dealing with a handicapped child is very difficult, but she didn't quit. That's the epitome of pressure, and she'd handling it just fine.

And before you all freak out, NO, not aborting your baby does not necessarily mean you are going to be a good president. I'm just using that as an example of why women should look up to her. The selfish thing and easiest way to avoid the pressure of a handicapped child would have been to terminate her pregnancy, ie kill the child. But she chose to address the situation in an adult manner and she should most definitely be looked up to for that fact. At least her parents instilled in her that life, EVERY life, not just the 'convenient' ones have value. Nothing lame about that.

[deleted account]

I must say, as a outsider, that at times I did wonder who was running for presidency, out of McCain and Palin. I cannot stand her.

ME - posted on 11/21/2009

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I don't hate people, but I do hate and fear everything this woman represents politically. I also hate the fact that I am supposed to like her and support her simply because she is a woman...she is nothing like any woman I know personally, and she is SO far from being like myself that we might as well be a different species!

Dana - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Traci:.

You know...depending on what is going on in the country...if things go as they have in the past year...I wouldn't be so sure that she couldn't win. The tides are turning for your guy....and they are only getting worse. In times like these the incumbents get ousted...Better be careful what you wish for.



LOL, I'm not trying to be rude here but, no way in hell would Sarah Palin EVER win an election for the President of the United States.  Too many in the Republican party can't stand her, let alone the swing voters.

ME - posted on 11/21/2009

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Traci, Moderates and Independents think she is a loon, you cannot win a national election without their support...good luck with that...I would L-O-V-E to see this intellectual equivalent of beach ball debate our president, (she couldn't even keep up with the nightly news anchor; how is she going to compete with a constitutional law professor) on foriegn policy, or homeland issues...chanting "drill baby drill" and winking is not a policy position...maybe she should get herself a cheerleading outfit for her next mag cover.

Traci - posted on 11/21/2009

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I have yet to find the quote of Palin saying "real Americans" are the only ones she cares about....she quit as governor so that the attacks would stop. The outsiders wouldn't leave her the hell alone and it was hindering her abilities to serve. She never used her kids as props. They came with her, she's proud of them, she did nothing any other politican didn't do with bringing her family out with her. There is so much wrong with that statement, Mary...I don't even know where to begin. Was she supposed to stick 'em in a closet away from public view? Obama didn't. What an unfair assessment.

You know...depending on what is going on in the country...if things go as they have in the past year...I wouldn't be so sure that she couldn't win. The tides are turning for your guy....and they are only getting worse. In times like these the incumbents get ousted...Better be careful what you wish for.

ME - posted on 11/21/2009

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Narcisism is a personality disorder...it isn't about being selfish, it's about having a problem relating to people with whom you do not agree or with whom you feel no affinity. This "problem" leads you to believe that you don't have to try to relate or associate with those people (eg, "real americans" are the only ones she cares about). It's also about doing whatever you think is acceptable (like quiting your public service job with LOTS of time left in your term) despite the negative affect it will have on others, or repeating lies that have been proven false over and over and believing that you can get away with it...if your personality affects your relationships (McCain camp) your family (Children used as props), or your job (quiter) in a negative way, then you may have a diagnosable personality disorder. I didn't say she HAS one, I haven't examined her, but she certainly exhibits symptoms of it.
I have NEVER worshiped at the feet of anyone, Obama included. There was a thread not long ago where we discussed our problems with the Obama administration...I agreed with several that had been posted, and posted my own...so did many of the progressive thinkers on this forum. Obama is incredibly intelligent, and incredibly qualified for his job...does that make him perfect or right all of the time, of course not...BUT I would rather have someone with a brain, then someone without one running our country...Palin is an idiot, and possibly a sick woman. I hope she runs in 2012...it will be the death of the conservative republican movement!

Dana - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Traci:

....and I also think its hilarious that you guys call her a compulsive liar. Obama's as clean as the wind driven snow in that regard...he's NEVER told a lie before...nor does he continue to lie each and every day he's in that office......

POLITICIANS ARE LIARS. IF THEY DIDN'T LIE, THEY WOULDN'T BE POLITICIANS.

I don't think her lies are as blatant or as obnoxious as some of the others...but that is neither here nor there....she is a good person, a regular person, and for the most part and honest person.



Why do you assume that if people voted for or support someone that they think he or she is as clean as the wind driven snow?   It seems as if everyone gets hyped up about the other side with out facts.  I think this only adds to the polarity in this country. 

Traci - posted on 11/21/2009

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....and I also think its hilarious that you guys call her a compulsive liar. Obama's as clean as the wind driven snow in that regard...he's NEVER told a lie before...nor does he continue to lie each and every day he's in that office......



POLITICIANS ARE LIARS. IF THEY DIDN'T LIE, THEY WOULDN'T BE POLITICIANS.



I don't think her lies are as blatant or as obnoxious as some of the others...but that is neither here nor there....she is a good person, a regular person, and for the most part and honest person.

Traci - posted on 11/21/2009

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First of all...if I am a mod here...why did I have to "join this community" to make a comment? lol





I think it's hiliarious that you guys can call Palin a narcissist while bowing at the feet of Obama who, cannot say a sentence without the word "I" in it. There is a woman who devotes her life to her kids which evolves into devoting her time to her state and she is a narcissist? Nothing she does is selfish. I just don't get that.



I don't want her to run in 2012, but that's just because of the snobs and bluebloods in Washington. It's not because she couldn't handle the job. Being the prez is about doing the right thing, which I think is exactly what Washington needs. She knows how to do the right thing.



Let's get over this PDS, ladies. She does not affect your life in any way, shape, matter, or form.

Jeannette - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Mary:

IMO...she has a personality disorder (she exhibits symptoms of Narcisism)...This doesn't necessarily disqualify her from public office...but compulsive lying and complete lack of any qualifications should should...when you believe your own lies, you ARE dangerous...and such a person should not hold public office...thank god she quit her job!



Actually, Narcisism is a major qualifier for being a politician...you kinda do have to be in love with yourself at all times so you can easily convince others to love you.  Who wants to vote for the self depreciating whimp?



I also think that all politicians should do what Barack Obama has done to get elected, don't talk about anything that could be construed as a negative, or just don't talk about anything at all.



I personally don't want her running in 2012, but really, it doesn't matter...I already know, whoever is running isn't going to be worth the votes they get.

ME - posted on 11/20/2009

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IMO...she has a personality disorder (she exhibits symptoms of Narcisism)...This doesn't necessarily disqualify her from public office...but compulsive lying and complete lack of any qualifications should should...when you believe your own lies, you ARE dangerous...and such a person should not hold public office...thank god she quit her job!

Jenny - posted on 11/20/2009

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What are facts these days anyways? It seems everything is relative and debatable. Facts are now to be called personal experiences or observations.

Amie - posted on 11/20/2009

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As for the original question. YES facts matter. How can that even be in question? Facts are truth. When dealing outside of opinion facts are very very important. If you can't back up what you say as truth, it's not a fact. It's an opinion, thought or feeling. To state something as a fact, that isn't, is lying. Something most of us should be able to distinguish between by now.

Amie - posted on 11/20/2009

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Quoting Laura:

You know that feeling when you've had a conversation, and said the wrong thing...then left and thought to yourself "ahh! that's what I should've said!"? That's kind of what Sarah Palin's interview with Oprah reminded me of. Having a year to muse over all the mistakes you made then go back and say..."see...what I really meant was..."

I think it's interesting that there is someone to blame for EVERY time she looked like an idiot. She never once said...yeah, I was caught unprepaired there...oops.

I was trapped, it was sexist, they wouldn't let me speak my mind, they made me dress the way they wanted, Katie Curric (sp?) hates me, everyone else is lying...come on...something has to be her responsibility.


My children are better with personal responsibility than she is.

Isobel - posted on 11/20/2009

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You know that feeling when you've had a conversation, and said the wrong thing...then left and thought to yourself "ahh! that's what I should've said!"? That's kind of what Sarah Palin's interview with Oprah reminded me of. Having a year to muse over all the mistakes you made then go back and say..."see...what I really meant was..."

I think it's interesting that there is someone to blame for EVERY time she looked like an idiot. She never once said...yeah, I was caught unprepaired there...oops.

I was trapped, it was sexist, they wouldn't let me speak my mind, they made me dress the way they wanted, Katie Curric (sp?) hates me, everyone else is lying...come on...something has to be her responsibility.

Dana - posted on 11/20/2009

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Facts do matter and I also think that you can find the truth if you look in the right places. I'd like to know what it is that she is calling fact and what they are saying isn't. Anyone have more info on this?

Jenny - posted on 11/20/2009

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Quoting Laura:

*snip* I've changed my mind on issues once I've heard and seen a little more. Do we want public figures that are stoic and unchanging? I don't know what topics she's flip flopped on but if it comes from the heart and is an intelligent switch then so what.*snip*


I stongly agree. Changing one's mind on an issue should not be considered a sign of weakness. Elected officials are supposed to be there to carry out the will of the people and if the majority opinion changes on an issue it is the duty of their representative to follow suit.  



I do not respect somebody more for holding fast to an opinion, especially if it's just wrong. That does not make for a strong person, it just makes them pigheaded. Change should be applauded.

Sara - posted on 11/20/2009

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When you peel back the layers of the Sarah Palin onion, through all that mavricky stuff, there's nothing. She knows nothing of foreign policy, economics...this is the person who coined the term "Death Panels" for god's sake. From what I understand in this book, she contradicts herself if ways that can be concretely disproven. To me, she just seems really irresponsible in the way she is using her influence in this country...and that is someone I want no where near public office. If the GOP want to use her as a symbol of that party, be my guest. I, for one, just find her insipid.



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