Does this trouble anyone????

JL - posted on 12/15/2009

Did you notice it was the "liberal" media that stood up and wanted Fox News included and that Liberals backed that move. HELLO, the thing is that it is not uncommon for presidents to have separate media events and meetings with certain news groups. Fox News got all up in arms when Obama did not invite them to a meeting that was with only the liberal media. He had a seperate meeting with the conservative media on another day and then he had one with all the media.



BUSH DID THE SAME THING WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE. He had meetings and events with only the conservative media. ....and .......REMEMBER BUSH CUT OFF MSNBC FOR AWHILE NOT INVITING THEM OR ALLOWING THEM AT ANY PRESS MEETINGS...all because they pissed him off.



OH WAIT then there was the fact that the Bush administration was found making deals with certain conservative journalist telling them exactly what to write and report...and they got in big shit for that..talk about journalistic integrity.



AND honestly why would Obama want to play all nice with a News organization that has blatantly lied about him to the point that they have been proven and found to have spliced and edited his speeches so it sounded as if he was saying things he was not. THey have been caught using footage to mislead and using incorrect statistics. Obama invited and allowed other conservative media groups he just had an issue with fake news group that lies and then claims to be journalistic.



Please..censorship...more like sticking his middle finger up to the news station that works so hard at blatantly dividing us all by perpetuating lies just so they can make good ratings and so there "hosts" can sell more books. I use the word news in congruence with fox loosely because what they call news I call anti-intellectualism.

Stefanie - posted on 12/15/2009

Islam is a religion (a peace religion), not a nation...

I agree with the poster who mentioned diplomacy.

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting dana:

Okay, I surrender. Kelley, you are right he is a Muslim. He does follow the Islamic faith. In the next 3 or 7 yrs he will miraculously change our whole country. Forget that we have a huge Christian following here or non-believers. Our military will turn against us all because they now follow President Obama who has brain washed them into thinking that he actually IS Allah. The military will then force us to become a Islamic nation or kill those who don't. Forget that they'll be turning on their own families....Oh, even one better, that's why they are staying in Afghanistan, to be more easily brainwashed!

Really, where are you going with this? If what you say would be true (and I absolutely think it's insane) where do we go from here? What would that prove, what would be the outcome?

make light, but there are bigger things tobeen seen here than just this silly islam think. I posted final thoughts. time for a new thread?

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

okay, after debate and further reading, and hearing speeches, and his actions. More confinced than ever these factors are worth reviewing. and I think the blind faith is just as nieve as so many Christians were with Bush.

little sad that in the end the only thing that got ire up was the 'sticker opinion/observation' and not the fact of his own words ,in reguard to glowing reference of islam faith, or the fact that on the official white house site the peoples who still have the freedom to stand against or stand up for their beliefs, were called terrorists, and yet that lableing was discouraged torward muslims militants- by this adminitration , or the conservative media/press were going to be shut outside of the doors of public discussion (until the other 'abc/nbc/msnbc/etc...' networks took a stand against such sensorship) These are all real issues that if Demo/liberals were being given the same treatment under the previous administration would have been screamming bloody-anarchy.

--bigger point is don't be blind-sided by some of these obvious violations....ultimately it may hit home for more that just conservative think.



*labeling and dividing groups because they disagree (disagreeing on issuses can be a strength when used constructively)

*blatant censorship (at least the attempting of it)

*making light or dismissing the severity of real threats to our nation's security and firmly held beliefs (by creating false threat aka: lableing groups to detract attention from other directions)



If it were you, and this was the previous admin. how would it look now?

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Damn, I hate when it changes to the second page and I didn't realize it!

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting dana:

Okay what is it that makes it look like a moon to you? Is it just because it's white? Also did you read any of Jenn's post clarifying the moon symbol?

Check out this site.
http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/cres...

The symbol is so FAR from Obama's emblem. I think it's time to eat crow. I think you can come to this conclusion on your own rather than see a site that explains Obama's emblem.

 

i saw it and read what the designers planned in the meaning, but in the end when all the designs were in, they were varying and Bo surely chose his preference....well, I like my birds well done....and the designers gave explanation for their design.  I' like to know what BO like about the design, maybe just it's initial appereance, maybe the meaning they designed.  Me - I really like shape designs with very clean lines. :) Never said it wasn't an eye catching design, it is. 

?? - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Iris :

Jo,
When we talk about "The Nation of Islam" it would be the one based in Chicago. The one Malcolm X left.
"Islamic Nations" would be a better term for the Middle-east Countries plus some others around the world, and that's what was the OP :)

Thank you Iris.

That is what I figured, I just wanted clarification :D

Iris - posted on 12/15/2009

Jo,
When we talk about "The Nation of Islam" it would be the one based in Chicago. The one Malcolm X left.
"Islamic Nations" would be a better term for the Middle-east Countries plus some others around the world, and that's what was the OP :)

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Okay, I surrender. Kelley, you are right he is a Muslim. He does follow the Islamic faith. In the next 3 or 7 yrs he will miraculously change our whole country. Forget that we have a huge Christian following here or non-believers. Our military will turn against us all because they now follow President Obama who has brain washed them into thinking that he actually IS Allah. The military will then force us to become a Islamic nation or kill those who don't. Forget that they'll be turning on their own families....Oh, even one better, that's why they are staying in Afghanistan, to be more easily brainwashed!

Really, where are you going with this? If what you say would be true (and I absolutely think it's insane) where do we go from here? What would that prove, what would be the outcome?

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Esther:

Quoting dana:

Quoting Esther:

Quoting dana:

And his family owns oil you know! He's actually sat down with them at his dinner table too..

Please, the Bush family has a long standing friendship with the Saudi royal family. Not to mention Bush was walking around holding hands with one of them.

You do know, I was speaking of Bush right?  lol That was who I meant, sitting at his dinner table too (the Saudi royal family).

Yes, that's what I meant. I meant it wasn't a single dinner. It was a looooooooong standing relationship between these two families. As a matter of fact - they are still in business together through the Carlisle group. But I guess when the motivator is profit - it's all OK.

Okay, I see what you mean now.  I thought you were giving me an "Oh, Please" (sarcasm).  My mistake.  lol  Now looking at it, I can't believe I thought that.  By the way, that whole hand holding thing was some weird shit wasn't it?!  Creepy.   Although, I think that signifies a marriage in business and ultimate trust & faith.  lol

?? - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Jo:

Asking for clarification;

Nation Of Islam = the organization that Malcolm X left and spoke out against after they put a hit on him for speaking badly about the assassination of JFK? Is that the Nation of Islam that we're discussing here? Or just in general.... the nation of Islamic people?

*parrot*

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting dana:

Quoting Esther:

Quoting dana:

And his family owns oil you know! He's actually sat down with them at his dinner table too..

Please, the Bush family has a long standing friendship with the Saudi royal family. Not to mention Bush was walking around holding hands with one of them.

You do know, I was speaking of Bush right?  lol That was who I meant, sitting at his dinner table too (the Saudi royal family).

Yes, that's what I meant. I meant it wasn't a single dinner. It was a looooooooong standing relationship between these two families. As a matter of fact - they are still in business together through the Carlisle group. But I guess when the motivator is profit - it's all OK.

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Jenn:

here's a little background for ya.....



The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, Not for this reference...Abraham came out of a land where a moon deity was worshipped, this  practice was even in Abraham's parentage, but Abraham sought out Jehovah/God .but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. Yeap, and that is the same deity of Isalm and hence he didn't change his symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ. yes, it would be. the divisions between Isaac and Ishmeal were deeply in place, and Ishmeals decents are by large of Islam belief. Just as the banner of  Star of David was in place for the Isrealites (Isaac's son, Jacob, who's name was changed to Isreal by God ).     
The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. (there is a story of Muhammad's escape by night through th desert through which the moon was his guide...my guess is you're abreast of this story, sorry the kids and I are currently leaving the buhdist Hindu regions in our world history study...I can look up this plite, if you want me to, or maybe you have in mind already?) but this escape - he gave large tribute to the moon's leading and so why is very indicitive of Islam followers ,  When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.  I agree, There are many variations of the cresent moon representations on Islamic nations flags....much like the many falgs of the USA for the fifty states.    Interjection here: so why then would it be a suprise that BO would be acceptable to a variation of the moon symbol, especially with having traveled and lived in country with different flags (i know not all of them had Isalms symbol)  again, just a thought?


For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.  

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims. Have you seen than many flags, representing these nations that hold onto this symbol?  I think it's a pretty uniform symbol for muslim believers, just at the cross is and the star of David, Budha' belly (sorry is alway the first thing I notice on the statues.....hey!!! unfortunately the first thing i notice on ME!  :)

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Kelley:

The blue O and the red stripes of course represent the flag which every candidate uses some uses of red, blue and white to bring about the imagery of the American flag.

The red stripes in particular respresent the plains....the heart of the American farmland. Representing his word that he was running as a representative of the people.

The O that is the white space is of course the sun which is shining if you notice over the plains. It is a sunrise....which brings forth the feeling and idea of a new day...of change of hope for something new.

Serious question? is there a sight that goes over these/this emblem....really would like to look at it for myself. (still don't mind to eat crow on this debate quest)

Tellin ya'  not a sunrise... (my observation)

Kelley - I sent you a link to a website going over the emblem before. There are other links on that page to other websites that explain things further. I'll link a few of them to make it really easy. Please stop the ridiculous conspiracy theories. It is impossible to take you seriously when you peddle nonsense like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_logo

http://www.oberholtzer-creative.com/visu...

http://www.logodesignlove.com/obama-08-l...

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Esther:

Quoting dana:

And his family owns oil you know! He's actually sat down with them at his dinner table too..

Please, the Bush family has a long standing friendship with the Saudi royal family. Not to mention Bush was walking around holding hands with one of them.

You do know, I was speaking of Bush right?  lol That was who I meant, sitting at his dinner table too (the Saudi royal family).

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Sara:

Thanks Esther, I can see I have again astounded you with my deductive reasoning skills.

Absolutely. I bow down to you. Even deeper than Obama did to the Japanese emperor.

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting dana:

And his family owns oil you know! He's actually sat down with them at his dinner table too..

Please, the Bush family has a long standing friendship with the Saudi royal family. Not to mention Bush was walking around holding hands with one of them.

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting dana:

Kelley, to assume that the emblem has a moon on it that connects it all to Islam is just extremely far fetched. It truly looks like you are searching for things that aren't there. What's with the obsession that he is Muslim. If he were then who cares?

for me the sympathies issue.... for instance if a stand were need to be made against them will he do that or quit, us?  and really it's great fodder for debate, because there are alot of repulican/consv. that are REALLY anal (so ironic w/ Joy's comment :)  about this, so this is the true forum I like to challenge that, I think it's intersting and worth looking/watching in the future.

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Okay what is it that makes it look like a moon to you? Is it just because it's white? Also did you read any of Jenn's post clarifying the moon symbol?



Check out this site.

http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/cres...



The symbol is so FAR from Obama's emblem. I think it's time to eat crow. I think you can come to this conclusion on your own rather than see a site that explains Obama's emblem.

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Joy "the historian":

It is a moon because he is an alien...hello he is from Uranus... ur anus..haha sorry I just have to find some comedic relief because some of these insinuations are just too out there for me to take seriously, but I will try.
Oh, Please that's BO... it's stinks :)  more lol relief. I really didn't haven't meant to insinuate just mearly interpreting in ny 'misguided' conservative view....

First, off the emblem used during the campaign that has come to represent Obama is probably on the of the most genius logo's used by a candidate. Instead of it being the generic bold enlarged name of the candidate with the flag, star, or some use of red and white blue with the addage for President at the bottom Obama's campaign gave us a visual marketing of his message. We have seen the same generic bumper stickers from so many candidates and they speak nothing about of the message of candidate all they say is.. Hey I am running for President.

Tell me do you tire of the flag? It's symbolic of course, and I think the 'O' symbolism here holds more to the story.  and yeah the same old stuff does get boring, My birthday happens to be in July and just the sight of another calendar with some cheesey red/white/blue blanket over a kitte, make me say "Blah"  give me Fireworks color!....sorry off topic.

Obama's campaign staff used symbolism that enduced the meaning and idea he was perpetuating..his message of HOPE and CHANGE.

It is pretty basic, but genius marketing if you look at for what it is..I mean come on even Pepsi bit off of the logo for their marketing.

well, yeah, capitalism love a winning team.

First off the circle is and O which represents his name...just like GW. Bush consorted the use of W as his name symbol..Obama consorted the O and made that the basic element of his logo.

I personally liked the 'W" (seeing that his dad had the same name i like the immediate affect of differentiation) but again I have my beefs in with the past, but we'll those out to pasture.. in TX
The blue O and the red stripes of course represent the flag which every candidate uses some uses of red, blue and white to bring about the imagery of the American flag.

The red stripes in particular respresent the plains....the heart of the American farmland. Representing his word that he was running as a representative of the people.

The O that is the white space is of course the sun which is shining if you notice over the plains. It is a sunrise....which brings forth the feeling and idea of a new day...of change of hope for something new.

Serious question? is there a sight that goes over these/this emblem....really would like to look at it for myself. (still don't mind to eat crow on this debate quest)

Tellin ya'  not a sunrise... (my observation)

THe morning sun in the logo is basically the symbol for hope and change rising over America bringing one to think that Obama is that sun rising up, he is the candidate that will help bring forth hope and help change our nation for the better.

Not so sure 4 the better?  when I pass away (please don't wish me dead :)  I hope to leave an inherritance for my children Not a huge burden of debt to pay (I've been watching my parents wrestle with this reality) It's not pleasant.
The man is smart and he surrounded himself with highly intelligent people who thought about every detail and new that running for president meant marketing Obama to the masses and that is what the logo is about. One of the things I used to tell my students was that they should not read to far into things and force meanings that are not there..most of the time what it is, is simply what it is and nothing more.

He has surrounded himself with tax evaders, known marxist propagaters (notice I said propagaters not card carriers) and more unsettling characters than I have the facts in front of me to mention.

Sara - posted on 12/15/2009

Thanks Esther, I can see I have again astounded you with my deductive reasoning skills.

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Conspiracy theories can be fun! :)

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

And his family owns oil you know! He's actually sat down with them at his dinner table too..

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Sara:

Wait wait wait JOY!!! YOu know what that means don't you? That GW used a W as a symbol for himself? Well, a W is an upside down M, and Muslim starts with M. Clearly, GW was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I can't believe I didn't see it before.

LMAO - That is the PERFECT analogy Sara. I love it.

Sara - posted on 12/15/2009

Wait wait wait JOY!!! YOu know what that means don't you? That GW used a W as a symbol for himself? Well, a W is an upside down M, and Muslim starts with M. Clearly, GW was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I can't believe I didn't see it before.

?? - posted on 12/15/2009

Asking for clarification;



Nation Of Islam = the organization that Malcolm X left and spoke out against after they put a hit on him for speaking badly about the assassination of JFK? Is that the Nation of Islam that we're discussing here? Or just in general.... the nation of Islamic people?

JL - posted on 12/15/2009

It is a moon because he is an alien...hello he is from Uranus... ur anus..haha sorry I just have to find some comedic relief because some of these insinuations are just too out there for me to take seriously, but I will try.



First, off the emblem used during the campaign that has come to represent Obama is probably on the of the most genius logo's used by a candidate. Instead of it being the generic bold enlarged name of the candidate with the flag, star, or some use of red and white blue with the addage for President at the bottom Obama's campaign gave us a visual marketing of his message. We have seen the same generic bumper stickers from so many candidates and they speak nothing about of the message of candidate all they say is.. Hey I am running for President.



Obama's campaign staff used symbolism that enduced the meaning and idea he was perpetuating..his message of HOPE and CHANGE.



It is pretty basic, but genius marketing if you look at for what it is..I mean come on even Pepsi bit off of the logo for their marketing.



First off the circle is and O which represents his name...just like GW. Bush consorted the use of W as his name symbol..Obama consorted the O and made that the basic element of his logo.



The blue O and the red stripes of course represent the flag which every candidate uses some uses of red, blue and white to bring about the imagery of the American flag.



The red stripes in particular respresent the plains....the heart of the American farmland. Representing his word that he was running as a representative of the people.



The O that is the white space is of course the sun which is shining if you notice over the plains. It is a sunrise....which brings forth the feeling and idea of a new day...of change of hope for something new.



THe morning sun in the logo is basically the symbol for hope and change rising over America bringing one to think that Obama is that sun rising up, he is the candidate that will help bring forth hope and help change our nation for the better.



The man is smart and he surrounded himself with highly intelligent people who thought about every detail and new that running for president meant marketing Obama to the masses and that is what the logo is about. One of the things I used to tell my students was that they should not read to far into things and force meanings that are not there..most of the time what it is, is simply what it is and nothing more.

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Well, since the object in the emblem is round whether it be a sun or moon, and not a crescent moon, that should end that theory. Not to mention the fact that it isn't even a Muslim symbol. Thanks, Jenn.

~Jennifer - posted on 12/15/2009

here's a little background for ya.....







The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.



The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.



The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.



It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.



For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.



Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

~Jennifer - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Kelley:

Quoting dana:

Okay, are you now trying to say that Rev. Wright is a muslim because he clearly is not. I don't think you can bring Rev. Wright into the debate while trying to claim that President is a muslim.

Nope, I know Rev. R. is not a muslim, Just very loudly opinionated, and I think the BO sticker with the Moon symbol is just as bold a staement.... wihout all the loudness that would be used by Rev right....

Jsut to be clear, I have no doubt that the sicker emblem with the 'moon' on it, Is a very clear, and bold statement, without overtly saying it.

By that thinking, he's Wiccan too.......

.....looks like a sunrise to me.....

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Kelley, to assume that the emblem has a moon on it that connects it all to Islam is just extremely far fetched. It truly looks like you are searching for things that aren't there. What's with the obsession that he is Muslim. If he were then who cares?

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting dana:

Okay, are you now trying to say that Rev. Wright is a muslim because he clearly is not. I don't think you can bring Rev. Wright into the debate while trying to claim that President is a muslim.

Nope, I know Rev. R. is not a muslim, Just very loudly opinionated, and I think the BO sticker with the Moon symbol is just as bold a staement.... wihout all the loudness that would be used by Rev right....

Jsut to be clear, I have no doubt that the sicker emblem with the 'moon' on it, Is a very clear, and bold statement, without overtly saying it.

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Kelley:

Quoting Esther:

BTW - I do second all the previous posters in appreciating you sticking around to try to clarify your positions and defend them. It's never easy being the lone anything out there, so thanks for hanging in there.

I'm enjoying the challenge of thought.

On the train? for fun or do travel train alot?

Just commuting back & forth to work.

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Kelley:

For the emblem thing. Come on. Get a grip. Honestly. First of all it's a sun, not a moon. If anything it's a throw-back/reference to Reagan's (that muslim loving liberal .....) "Morning in America". That's what it is about. Take a few deep breaths. Really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_in_...

Really, think it's a moon and I think it's another thing that only time will tell. I don't think Obama was a big fan of Reagan and certainly not enough to carry his symbol, and all that big business that BO has deem as so bad, that the wealth needs re-distributed. Hmmmm, nope not buying it. He's much more driven in his convictions, whether he voices them as loudly as Rev. Right, but a silent symbol.....yeah, I give him credit for being alot smarter than that on this one.

Just a note:

Really not a Reagan quoter (believe it or not) I grew up in a home where mom's pretty much a liberal, and dad was a blue collar Democrat so those years were totally not on my radar. 

Kelley - I'm sorry, but this is on the level of those people who say that the Beatles were conveying secret messages from the devil if you played their records backwards. This kind of conspiracy thinking really devalues any argument you may have. You "thinking" it's a moon and something dark doesn't make it so. If that's all it takes to make a case I can make the case that Cheney really was secretly Darth Vader, or at least a close relative. I know that Cheney denies it but that's cause he's a very smart guy so he knows that revealing his true identity would get him in trouble. But I guess only time will tell ......

Now for the reality based community - take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_logo

Dana - posted on 12/15/2009

Okay, are you now trying to say that Rev. Wright is a muslim because he clearly is not. I don't think you can bring Rev. Wright into the debate while trying to claim that President is a muslim.

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Hey i'm having trouble bringing up that herritage site (not the site but that specific page) now as well. But I know for sure one of those was the statement that were posted by the official whitehouse.gov site it was May 19th 2009, and it's since been removed....it been stripped form alot of other places but I remember it because I printed it out at the time, it was sureal to me.

I'm really fustrated both sources that I had posted actually showed the page form whitehouse.gov and I know they been pulling them and they changed in the article on whitehouse.gov....seriously I just don't believe it! I search long an hard and I had two of them but now i can't get back to them..... >:(

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Esther:

BTW - I do second all the previous posters in appreciating you sticking around to try to clarify your positions and defend them. It's never easy being the lone anything out there, so thanks for hanging in there.

I'm enjoying the challenge of thought.

On the train? for fun or do travel train alot?

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Esther:

Now for the Nation of Islam - you really are confusing your terminology. This is the Nation of Islam Iris was referring to (the only entity that uses that name):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_i...

Ok. I just checked this and it's what I thought...I thought that I posted how BO spoke about the Nations (plural countries) because just like Christianty or Judiasm the are multiple sects/division and multiple locations, I wasn't speaking of a Muslim mosuqe title (or denomination) but rather the many muslim countries , because muslims adhere to islamic beliefs.

For the emblem thing. Come on. Get a grip. Honestly. First of all it's a sun, not a moon. If anything it's a throw-back/reference to Reagan's (that muslim loving liberal .....) "Morning in America". That's what it is about. Take a few deep breaths. Really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_in_...

Really, think it's a moon and I think it's another thing that only time will tell. I don't think Obama was a big fan of Reagan and certainly not enough to carry his symbol, and all that big business that BO has deem as so bad, that the wealth needs re-distributed. Hmmmm, nope not buying it. He's much more driven in his convictions, whether he voices them as loudly as Rev. Right, but a silent symbol.....yeah, I give him credit for being alot smarter than that on this one.

Just a note:

Really not a Reagan quoter (believe it or not) I grew up in a home where mom's pretty much a liberal, and dad was a blue collar Democrat so those years were totally not on my radar.

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

BTW - I do second all the previous posters in appreciating you sticking around to try to clarify your positions and defend them. It's never easy being the lone anything out there, so thanks for hanging in there.

Esther - posted on 12/15/2009

Quoting Kelley:

FACTS found em' so please give them a look before you blast back at me :)
This is an article specifically showing where OB's (DHS) targeted conservatives/right wingers as domestic terrorist, and it includes the official whitehouse.gov site (from May) and (obama) has since removed this portion and sensored it in many places:

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/01/obam...

[ ]

Just an fyi. out to the post about islam being a group in chicago???? Well as a collective the arab nations/muslim believers also consider themselves part of a bigger one nation - 'Islam'

[ ]

O.k. this last but not least is something that I'm sure will fire up my liberal friends, or you will chose to just shrug it off.
Check out Obama's emblem.....Have youever wondered about that symbol???
It's a moon rising (or maybe ascending) Hellooo, the moon is indicative of the nation of an Islamic symbol. In different forms sometimes, but definately the moon....Mohammed was led through the desert by the moon (little history)

So the point is, "Does any of this raise even a little questioning as to the possibility of maybe something deeper of what he might really be most supportive of? It's worth consideration especially as the whole Afgan thing unfolds....it will be interesting.

I'm on the train so I have a very slow connection. That means that I'll have to address some of the things you mention (incl. the youtube videos) later. But a few things just had to be pointed out immediately.

The first one is the link from the (SUPER PARTIAL) heritage foundation. The link didn't work for me, but I did a search on their website for the title of the article and it did come up that way. Did you see the "update 2" at the bottom on that very same page? Here it is:

(Update #2: Several readers have asked us whether this posting on barackobama.com was “user-generated” rather than a staff posting. From what we can tell, this may have been the case. Nevertheless, members of ‘Organizing for America’ in Illinois, North Carolina, Michigan and possibly other states were invited to this event without filter. Anything under the ‘Organizing for America’ banner that is distributed en masse is accountable to those who run the President’s perpetual campaign.

So, since it's user generated, not authored by the Obama team, let alone Obama himself, I will not join that convent quite yet. I do think it was in extremely poor taste and the Obama team took it down for that reason.

Now for the Nation of Islam - you really are confusing your terminology. This is the Nation of Islam Iris was referring to (the only entity that uses that name):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_i...

For the emblem thing. Come on. Get a grip. Honestly. First of all it's a sun, not a moon. If anything it's a throw-back/reference to Reagan's (that muslim loving liberal .....) "Morning in America". That's what it is about. Take a few deep breaths. Really.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_in_...

Kelley - posted on 12/15/2009

FACTS found em' so please give them a look before you blast back at me :)

This is an article specifically showing where OB's (DHS) targeted conservatives/right wingers as domestic terrorist, and it includes the official whitehouse.gov site (from May) and (obama) has since removed this portion and sensored it in many places:



http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/01/obam...



ok, here are some of OB"s quotes that concern me:

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=XE9mZCRX2mg



Nooo, I'm not a youtube freak I just this displays my concerns with his glowing comments about the nation of Islam, and the concentrated efforts in bowing to the Ssaudi King (but to give you benefit of doubt in the point...."If?" he's reaching out to Muslim nations...? still not sure about that) but not the queen of England.



Just an fyi. out to the post about islam being a group in chicago???? Well as a collective the arab nations/muslim believers also consider themselves part of a bigger one nation - 'Islam'



here's a line from the white house .gov information that was posted May 19th as to how Obama has targeted consevatives/rwight wingers



'"the report ignited a firestorm on capitol hill because it suggested that "Rright Wingers" could pose a threat to US security. "Right Wingers" were dfined as people who oppose abortion rights, were military veterans or backed the second amendment.'



the DHS copiled a study and "cast Right-Wing groups as a potential terrorist threat" also from this report.



O.k. this last but not least is something that I'm sure will fire up my liberal friends, or you will chose to just shrug it off.

Check out Obama's emblem.....Have youever wondered about that symbol???

It's a moon rising (or maybe ascending) Hellooo, the moon is indicative of the nation of an Islamic symbol. In different forms sometimes, but definately the moon....Mohammed was led through the desert by the moon (little history)



So the point is, "Does any of this raise even a little questioning as to the possibility of maybe something deeper of what he might really be most supportive of? It's worth consideration especially as the whole Afgan thing unfolds....it will be interesting.

Amie - posted on 12/14/2009

I've said it before and I know a lot of the women here will agree with me. It's harder to understand here because we don't know you. We can't see your face or read your body language. So something we may 'get' in real life talking to you, we might not from reading text on one of the threads here. It's just something I keep in mind when I post to people I haven't encountered before. It might help you to articulate yourself better as well. =)

Kelley - posted on 12/14/2009

Quoting Amie:

I agree with the last three posts! Welcome Kelley and I hope (though I haven't yet) I can understand what you are trying to say. I read the entire thread to catch up and it seems to have gotten off track again, then come back and loop around in circles. So I just let it be. LOL! You will catch on eventually though. We were all new at one point or another. =)

I'l keep working on it.

Amie - posted on 12/14/2009

I agree with the last three posts! Welcome Kelley and I hope (though I haven't yet) I can understand what you are trying to say. I read the entire thread to catch up and it seems to have gotten off track again, then come back and loop around in circles. So I just let it be. LOL! You will catch on eventually though. We were all new at one point or another. =)

?? - posted on 12/14/2009

I third what the ladies are saying as well here, I understand how difficult it is to express yourself properly and it takes some time to get the flow of conversation around here - especially when you're in a position to be ..... challenged aggressively .... to put it lightly lol



I absolutely appreciate that you are willing to explain and re-explain your position and your opinions and I admire that you genuinely seem to be willing to debate and compromise -- previous conservatives haven't wanted compromise, they wanted more of a conforming ending rather than a compromising ending.



Please, I encourage you to continue explaining and asking questions if you are unsure of our posts as well - welcome to PDM, I look forward to following our progress on this forum :D

Iris - posted on 12/14/2009

I just want to second Laura's post. Welcome Kelley, and I hope we can have some interesting debates in the future.

Isobel - posted on 12/14/2009

Kelly...I see that you are new to COM (judging by the number of posts on your profile)...I think that it takes time to get used to expressing yourself online...I, for one...am extremely happy that you are here...it is great to have a conservative point of view...by the way...if you have any friends...I hope you would bring them along :)

Although I will clearly disagree with almost everything you say (cause I'm a crazy liberal) I think you are truly genuine, and I look forward to debating with you :)

Dana - posted on 12/14/2009

I want to make it clear that I don't necessarily think this thread should end. Just that the original idea should be put to rest if there are no facts to back it up. I don't want to give the impression that just because I'm the administrator that I have the right to tell people when to stop a debate.

Kelley - posted on 12/14/2009

Quoting Jo:

Quoting Kelley:
why confused??? Jo

Because your posts don't make any sense... your point and your reasonings are elusive to me... I don't get it. You start to make sense and then in the middle of the post you do a switchback and your point is lost again... I'm sorry, but each of your posts becomes more confusing and trying to read it all just confused me to the point where the only response I could make is I'm so confused.

glad  there was some 'sense' in there, and  I think alot of those issues tie in but I obviously didn't present it well. and I did want to keep it in with the initial post.

so many of the subjects brought into play could be a thread all by themselves. religion, war, etc...

Kelley

sorry to confuse, I usually find pros and cons on both sides, and so I think some thought I flip-flopped or contradicted, but I believe good compromise comes with give and take on the issues, and I like to give credit where credit is due in converstions at least let others know that I'm listening to them, I'm not on here to be right all the time, I want to test what i'm seeing.

Kelley - posted on 12/14/2009

I want to thank Dana for the quote reply tip....had seen it in other threads, but I have it now and will use. If you want me to find the websites and etc. that has brought me to the trouble I see... I will. So hopefully I won't seem as misunderstood, and maybe in review I will need to eat some crow...:0 I ok, with crow on a cold plate :)

but if you would like for this thread to end I will do that too. Dana, brought up a good point and that is.... this is something that I am preceiving, my opinion, but again. I'm ok with the eating crow challenge if Esther is really looking for a convent, lol.

After all it is evening and the kids arein bed, shoot even the hubby is tucked in, I ahve time to go info fishing.

Let me know....

I'm sure there are other threads a' going on....I will get better at this (I'll just keep telling myself that until it's true...