Euthanasia

Amie - posted on 09/30/2009 ( 23 moms have responded )

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By: CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Sep. 30 2009 10:00 PM ET

A chronically ill Canadian woman who lives in constant pain is spending her life's savings to travel to Switzerland so a clinic can assist her in suicide.

It will cost Mary, $30,000 for travel, clinic fees and other expenses to end her life.

Mary, who doesn't want her last name used for this story, is 89 and suffers from spinal stenosis. She numbs the chronic pain with medication and has been left almost immobile.

She can do little for herself and is confined to lie flat in bed, or to get around by wheelchair.

"The choice that's in front of me is that I just can't do anything at all," Mary told CTV News. "My vision is going downhill, my hearing is going downhill and as far as I can see it, there is absolutely no quality of life in this at all."

Mary is dependent on others to carry her around and complete simple tasks for her, such as turn on the television.

"So I woke up one Sunday night...and I said to myself, 'You do not like the situation you're in and what are you going to do about it,'" she said. "Well, what you're going to do about it is, contact the Right to Die Society and move ahead with that and see if you can go to Switzerland and deal with the problem because that's the way I want to go. I cannot live with living on my back and not being able to move my hands or anything."

Assisted suicide and euthanasia are illegal in Canada, but legal in Switzerland and the Netherlands. Both countries are popular destinations for terminally ill Europeans hoping to end their suffering. At a Swiss clinic, people's applications must be approved in advance.

There are two private member's bills before Canada's House of Commons, one that advocates decriminalizing assisted suicide and euthanasia, and one that seeks to ban them.

If the bills pass during votes that are scheduled for Wednesday, they will be put forward to committee for further review. The overwhelming majority of private member bills do not pass.

Mary's children reluctantly support her decision.

"I've thought about it and...we're all going to die sometime and the difference here is that we have a date and so I think that I'm okay with taking her over and being with her," her daughter Diane said.

"I wish it could be in our own country and we could all be together and all of my siblings be together with her, but that's not possible at this point."

'Not the right time to do it'

This November, the Quebec College of Physicians and Surgeons will further the debate when it releases a discussion paper that is expected to encourage the federal government to legalize euthanasia.

But Dr. Jose Pereira, director of palliative care at the Elisabeth Bruyere Hospital in Ottawa, says now is not the time to legalize euthanasia or assisted suicide in Canada.

"I think that at this time it's not the right time to do it, and I say that because there are several elements that are missing still," Pereira said. "The first one is that in Canada we still have many, many gaps in services related to palliative care and not all Canadians have access to good palliative care."

According to Pereira, simply legalizing euthanasia and assisted suicide without enacting ironclad regulations could lead to a number of problems, including:

* cuts to palliative care for terminally ill patients
* ending the lives of people who are depressed or isolated who could be treated with appropriate counselling
* ending lives without required written consent forms, as has happened in the Netherlands

Pereira also says that in some jurisdictions in Switzerland, advocates want nursing home residents to be able to choose to die, even though the initial premise of right-to-die laws was to alleviate the suffering of people with progressive, chronic illnesses.

"So one of the concerns that I have is that it's very difficult to put in fool-proof safeguards around this and I think we should really focus on finding other ways of addressing the burden of suffering," Perreira said.

Mary has received the letter from Switzerland, confirming she can travel there to end her life.

"I look forward to ending it all before I become nothing but an ironing board in a bed," she said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/st...
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I don't see how better palliative care could sway the decision of people like Mary. I can't imagine being in that position. Knowing my body is failing, that I'm slowly dying.
I watched my Grandmother go through it. She never once talked of ending her life but her journey to the end was nowhere near as long as Mary's was. She suffered for a month before she passed on.
My other grandparents went quickly.

I do however think it should be legal here. With guidelines and the paperwork for approval beforehand all done. It shouldn't be available for everyone, that's just extreme. But for people with serious conditions, who have chosen with a sound mind that this is the path they want to take for themselves. Those people should have it available to them.

I know there are going to be people who don't agree but keep it civil please.

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23 Comments

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Johnny - posted on 10/03/2009

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I would suppose that "liberals" simply feel that they are being intolerant of intolerance which is in their opinion tolerable. I am not saying that I think that anyone has actually been intolerant in this particular thread (at least in terms of the topic at hand), but other issues are being dragged in from other discussions that are leading to this part of the debate.

On topic, I do support the idea of euthanasia. But I do have serious concerns about it being mismanaged. So before considerations of legalization, stringent guidelines and a change in medical practices should occur. And I actually think that euthanasia is dangerous under a "for-profit" medical system. If a person can make a profit specifically from arranging or facilitating another person's death, I suspect there will be cases of abuse. I have no problem with the idea of allowing people to choose when to end their own suffering, and arranging to have someone help them with that if necessary. Just removing people from life-continuing machines and medication can often lead to prolonged and painful death, which people in this situation are entitled to avoid. That is the only humane way to be.

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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I still don't see where I disregarded your opinion. I made a statement, I did not say your opinion didn't count. I thought we were having a debate.



I don't understand why it's being taken so personal. Especailly since I ,myself, am a christian.

Amie - posted on 10/02/2009

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Christa you are free to state your opinion, voice your concerns and rant and rave all you want.

What liberals don't want are laws based on a religious belief. It is simple and easy to understand. Would you want the Koran used to base laws off of?

Religion has no place in law or politics. It does not mean you can't voice your opinion or thoughts it just means it should not be made law.

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Christa, I'm not disregarding you and I'm not sure why you are stating "so much for tolerance".

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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But, you have said this on another thread: What is your barometer when it comes to different issues? Mine is obviously the bible, a "what would Jesus do"

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Yes, I agree you haven't said anything about the bible and suicide.

Traci - posted on 10/02/2009

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I can see your point, Amie. I would be understanding if it was ONLY for terminal illness, I guess. I think that's the only way I would be okay with it. I am not sure I'd be able to vote for it still, but I wouldn't raise a big stink about it either.

Amie - posted on 10/02/2009

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I know Dana. It's just a terrible bill. She's put it forth twice before, gee wonder why it's not going through? =|

There needs to be a lot more limits, ONLY physicians should be allowed to assist for one and for two it should be people with a terminal illness. Depression? No doesn't apply. I've suffered from Depression, Lord help anyone who thinks they are in the right frame of mind during something like that. To take them at their word that they want to die. Well ya it sucks in the moment but you WILL get better and continue on with your life. /:) Not impressed with the frogs.

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Yikes, that bill deserves to be shot down, Good golly! Suicide Tourists and the fact that if you experience depression you're eligible. Half my family on my mom's side has depression, think of all the women who have postpatum depression. Also that the definition of medical practitioner is not limited to a physician. Just too many things wrong here.



Oh, and Christa, I don't think that someone with chronic back pain should be given medicine to force death but, I think someone who has a terminal illness and is in pain should be able to make a decision to take medicine to quicken death if they choose too. It's another situation where religion should not legislate. You can believe what you want, I can believe what I want, and anyone else (in the US) can believe what they want but, we can't make laws based on the fact that the bible says suicide is a sin.

Amie - posted on 10/02/2009

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Our government saw a bill on September 29th about this issue. I have no doubt it was voted down though because the wording is terrible!
For something of this nature to pass a lot of things need to be changed in this bill.
Not really impressed with Francine Lalonde or the Bloc. This is her/their bill that was put forward.
Take a look here:

http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/An...

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Quoting Christa:

You see to me it's about taking a human life that I am not allowed to do. I do understand the idea of putting someone "out of their misery", but like I've already said it is not my place or any other humans, to decide who lives and who dies.



Okay so then, hasn't God already decided they die but, we've kept them alive with medicine, machines and have helped with lack of mobility.

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Quoting Traci:

I am torn on this one. I mostly agree with Christa, but then when you hear of a person that is in so much pain, it's hard to tell them they HAVE to go on. My main issue is that it would definitely lead to abuse. I don't care how many papers the person had to sign...look at how old people are fooled everyday into over the phone scams and mail order scams alone! What if their grandkid is trying to get ahold of that sweet inheritance and coereces granny into ending it all. We all know, that it will happen and I'm not sure we should put those in jeopardy just to help a few.

If these people had guns....they could just do it themselves.....I'm just sayin'.....



Well, I would think that there would be more people who actually need these services than the "few" people that want to kill their elderly relatives for money. 



I also think that being put to sleep is ALOT  different than blowing you head off. 

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Quoting Traci:

I am torn on this one. I mostly agree with Christa, but then when you hear of a person that is in so much pain, it's hard to tell them they HAVE to go on. My main issue is that it would definitely lead to abuse. I don't care how many papers the person had to sign...look at how old people are fooled everyday into over the phone scams and mail order scams alone! What if their grandkid is trying to get ahold of that sweet inheritance and coereces granny into ending it all. We all know, that it will happen and I'm not sure we should put those in jeopardy just to help a few.

If these people had guns....they could just do it themselves.....I'm just sayin'.....



Well, I would think that there would be more people who actually need these services than the "few" people that want to kill their elderly relatives for money. 



I also think that being put to sleep is ALOT  different than blowing your head off. 

Dana - posted on 10/02/2009

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Quoting Christa:



Quoting Amie:




Quoting Jenny:

When our animals suffer putting them down is considered the humane thing to do yet with people it's frowned upon. Why is that?







VERY good point. =)









 






We also kill animals to eat them, should we start doing that to humans?  Humans and animals are different and I wish people would stop comparing them to make arguments about humans.






It's not that they're the same, it's about compassion for anything in pain and suffering.

Jenny - posted on 10/02/2009

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Which makes my my point even more, we're more humane with our food than our family.

Traci - posted on 10/02/2009

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I am torn on this one. I mostly agree with Christa, but then when you hear of a person that is in so much pain, it's hard to tell them they HAVE to go on. My main issue is that it would definitely lead to abuse. I don't care how many papers the person had to sign...look at how old people are fooled everyday into over the phone scams and mail order scams alone! What if their grandkid is trying to get ahold of that sweet inheritance and coereces granny into ending it all. We all know, that it will happen and I'm not sure we should put those in jeopardy just to help a few.



If these people had guns....they could just do it themselves.....I'm just sayin'.....

ME - posted on 10/02/2009

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I feel that as long as an illness is terminal, and the individual is capable of making a rational and informed decision, it should be theirs to make.

Amie - posted on 10/01/2009

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Quoting Jenny:

When our animals suffer putting them down is considered the humane thing to do yet with people it's frowned upon. Why is that?


VERY good point. =)

Jenny - posted on 10/01/2009

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We are playing god in the first place by prolonging the suffering through medicines and machines. My partner and I both want to die peacefully at home if suffering for whatever reason and I don't really give a crap about the laws. I will respect his wishes and I hope he respects mine. There is no reason another person should be held criminally responsible for somethnig I have chosen to do with my own body. The government does not have authority over that.



There is passive and active euthanasia. My grandfather was passively euthanized by removing his IV drip that was keeping him alive. This was done in a hospital so that must be legal already. It is active euthanasia which is not.



When our animals suffer putting them down is considered the humane thing to do yet with people it's frowned upon. Why is that?

Amie - posted on 10/01/2009

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Guidelines and paperwork done BEFOREHAND. As I stated. It shouldn't be something that's just walked into because the patient today says, ok this is a good idea. They may change their mind and having to go through the process of getting approval for someone to help them end their life would give them the chance to think more on it.
I'm not saying the people who do decide this route don't weigh the seriousness of it already. But I am for it all the more after listening to Mary's story. 30 YEARS. Could you do it? I don't think I could. I'd want to say my good byes and leave my family behind with happy memories. Not memories of watching me wither and having to depend on them because my body decides to fail me.

Amie - posted on 10/01/2009

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I remember working in a nursing home. They have all have palliative care available for those who need it. So many I keep company would want it to just end already. They were done, they had given up but nothing could be done for them. They had to die suffering. That is no way for any person to die.
The option should be there for those that need and want it.

Isobel - posted on 10/01/2009

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I agree...and why on earth could those issues not be addressed at the same time...It seems to me that palliative care would be more accessible to people who need it, if the system were not backed up with people who don't want to be there.

Dana - posted on 10/01/2009

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I agree with you Amie, completely. I also think someone like Mary would be dead already if it weren't for medicine and others taking care of her. There gets to be a point where modern medicine takes lives too far. In Mary's case to quit the medicine and die on her own would be inhumane and it's too bad she can't do it at home with her family around her.