Kudos to Governor Jan Brewer

~Jennifer - posted on 05/19/2010

I'd like Mr Savage to spend a day w/ my son and tell me that I'm making all this up.....



That rat bastard wouldn't last 15 minutes in this house before he wrote me a check from his personal account and apologized profusely.....



;)

Rosie - posted on 05/19/2010

Uhh, sorry Diane- I was busy dealing with my autistic son's issues...but your dear Michael Savage says autism is made up by people to defraud the government of money (silly me, I've never received a check!), so I guess you won't believe that one, will you?- stephany

holy shit stephany!! some people are just bad-shit crazy to state that! BTW- i havn't received one either. :)

Stephany - posted on 05/19/2010

Uhh, sorry Diane- I was busy dealing with my autistic son's issues...but your dear Michael Savage says autism is made up by people to defraud the government of money (silly me, I've never received a check!), so I guess you won't believe that one, will you?
I'd be happy to come to Arizona with my family for the summer, but I'm half Italian and I'm afraid I might tan so much that I'd become illegal.
Hasn't Obama made motions to end the war in Iraq? I thought I heard a long time ago (I guess it was RIGHT AFTER HE TOOK OFFICE) that he had set a date for the U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. It would have been impossible for all of the troops to just catch the next flight home. Besides, didn't your beloved Bush Jr. say that we would be less safe if we left Iraq in the unprepared hands of their own militias? Don't you think it makes sense to prepare them as we gradually with draw and then get the hell out of Dodge? Your inconsistencies here are laughable at best. You're drinking too much tea, DEAR.
Before you start saying that we're "dribbling all over ourselves" while we stand on our soapboxes, you should know that my husband is working his ass off right now to get back into the military so he can help protect this country that you and your friends at the party are so determined to brainwash and overthrow. I strongly believe that you shouldn't say something unless you can back it up with action. So what are you doing?
Ooohhh...I said the word "sterilized". I guess I'm Hitler because I think that each and every parent should be willing to do anything possible to better the lives of their children, and if they aren't they shouldn't be allowed to have more children. Are you seriously arguing AGAINST that, Diane? Are YOU kidding ME?
Yes, I believe we should extend a hand and try to help Mexico better it's political and social environments so their people don't feel they have to escape to another country. Think about it- the vast majority of the people breaking into your state are risking their lives crossing a dangerous area of land- do you really think they're running from daisies and smiley faces? Don't you think we should treat the problem at it's source? Consider it a pre-emptive strike- that's terminology you should be familiar with.
Arizona should care about losing tourism dollars. It's like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. They obviously NEED the money of they are begging the feds for more.
What does it matter how old I am? I'm 25, married with two special needs kids and a college degree. I've been through more in my short life than most will ever have to endure, and the only thing that should matter to you is that I am over 18 and I have a vote. I didn't realize this political debate forum was only intended for staunchy, middle-aged women who are jaded in their own lives and have to decompress online. Sorry.

Krista - posted on 05/13/2010

Except for that 4th amendment -- we'll just ignore that one, right Diane?

Diane - posted on 05/12/2010

hahaha
yea right Laci. My points are just so good you can't find fault in them. :)
Ya get deny the Constitution its in black and white.

LaCi - posted on 05/12/2010

I don't see why there would be it's pretty pointless as you can't grasp a point that isn't your own.

Diane - posted on 05/12/2010

And............................no takers?

Diane - posted on 05/11/2010

Stephany said, “I read an article yesterday that was discussing the backlash against the state of Arizona for passing this bill. It said that the University of Arizona and Arizona State University have both received notice from am lot of out-of-state students that they will not be attending next fall because they fear being arrested. There is pressure on the MLB to move the site of next year's all-star game (which was slated to be held in AZ). Tourism officials in Arizona are saying that tourism will be gravely affected. On top of all of this, Governor Brewer is requesting funds to help enforce this new law!? Are you effing kidding me? She must have grabbed a pair of cajones off the last hispanic murderer she saw sitting in Diane's front lawn.”


They might get a few here and there but since we have the largest campus in the country I doubt it will make a difference and so what. We need to follow the laws. And sending home illegals is the right thing to do for many reasons. And who cares about an all star game.
Why should we risk our safety to allow groups to dictate to us what we can and can’t do? Should states have boycotted Massachusetts for allowing gay marriage? It is amazing how hypocritical some people are. You would think they would all march to Washington and demand that our state receive the help it so badly needs. But people do not care about the safety of the people of Arizona. They just like standing up on a soap box and dribbling all over themselves. No one cares about what is going on in my state. You can point your finger at us and tell us we are doing it wrong, but then you turn your backs and run the other way. Compassion? And it was suggested by one poster here that we have compassion and take on all of Mexico. I am with Michael Savage when he said, Liberalism is a mental disorder. That certainly is evident here.
For your information my dear……..the Constitution says that the federal government has the duty of securing the border. They are not doing this. Wake up.

Diane - posted on 05/11/2010

Stephany the police can’t pull you over unless you are breaking the law in another area, such as a traffic violation. You are insinuating that ALL POLICE ARE BAD that ALL WOULD PROFILE. How is that fair? How do you think law enforcement can do their jobs without stopping people? You want to protect the illegal, is what you want to do. Does not matter if the car is full of drug dealers, asking citizenship takes a back seat over finding the bad guys. You who think this law is bad want to tie the hands of the good guy and give the bad one a free pass. And that free pass leads to criminal activity.

Most countries have laws regarding illegals. Have you looked at Mexico’s laws and what they do to those they find there illegally? They can do it, but we can’t? I am going to Europe this summer and my travel agent said I would need my passport. Why? You mean they will ask me where I am from? Other countries can profile.......but we can't? We want to do in Arizona what most other countries do.


It does not surprise me that you would think that we should now go into Mexico and clean up their country. That is insane and unrealistic and an outrageous.Washington wont send us troops and money to protect our own borders and you suggest we clean up Mexico. LMAO

And who will do this my dear? You think then because Arizona, California and Texas are border states that, the responsibility lies with the taxpayers who are already supporting millions upon millions of illegal’s in their respective states?
LMAO…….You have got to be kidding me?

How old are you?

And honey what do you really have against Palin. You seem to be fixated on her. LOL

What do you not get Stephany?

Why don’t you load your precious children and husband up in an SUV and come down to southern Arizona for vacation. We will put you up in a nice border town where you can enjoy yourselves and be a witness to what really is going on. And…….we will watch your children while you go out into the desert and help the illegals cope. We will not send guns with you because I am sure you feel there is no danger that everyone coming over the border are peaceful, kind and loving individuals. So you get no guns. Good luck.

And Stepany where do we send your bodies when we find them?

You haven’t a clue.

Mexico is NOT THE UNITED STATES RESPONSIBILITY. It is a separate country and does not belong to us. We have our own problems and poor to take care of. Do you think the US should just open its borders to everyone in the world and allow them to come in? Who will pay for them Stephany? We can’t take on all the worlds peoples and problems. You bleeding heart liberals are on the brink of insanity.

You said, “Any parent who says anything different should be sterilized.”

Wow. Seems to me Hitler made a similar statement when he thought he knew best for civilization. We can teach our kids compassion but we need to also teach them to survive. That is what Darwin said didn't he,,,,the strong will make it the weak will die? And if we open the borders in the United States to the entire worlds population, we as a nation will not survive, it would be impossible. Not everyone coming across the border like us. Look at the aftermath of 9-11 and the effects that one incident had on the world. How many terrorists were involved? Ten?

We have millions of illegals here that are coming to hurt and destroy us. This law will help send those who are breaking the law back where they belong. And for those who have proper documentation they have nothing to worry about.

I believe in our police, whom a great majority are Mexican themselves. They will follow the law and protect the citizens of our state.

I wish all mothers could see the dangers ahead. I wish those mothers who think everyone is a good guy would wake up because the life, the American Dream that brought millions of immigrants to this country will not be possible if we do not get things under control. It is impossible that the people in the United States support all the people in the world who need it.

The losers will be our children, because they will end up with NOTHING.

Diane - posted on 05/11/2010

IRIS said,” Obama gets elected and promises to bring the troops home, he didn't give a specific date. He has two wars to deal with: the one in Iraq and the one in Afghanistan.”


No, you are wrong. He said it would be his first order of business. I will bring the troops home and end the war. Iris he has sent thousands upon thousands more soldiers over there. And many of them have died. He did not keep his promise and never intended to do so. Politicians lie to get elected and Obama is no different. Would you like the five videos I have of him stating that he would bring them home as soon as he because president? I posted them in another thread but I would be happy to post them all again.

What you are doing here is making excuses for Obama. He has had months and months to act on this. Things have not changed that much. He said what he had to say to get votes. By the logic of pre Obama presidency, it should not matter what is going on there, it’s not our concern.


Excuses…excuses. And you will see even one year from today, he won’t have brought one troop home, well unless they come home in a body bag. How many have died over there since he took over Iris? He said ending the war was his first thing he would do. Has he ended the war and brought the troops home? NO if he thought it was an unjust war, really, those troops would be home with their families.

One of my son’s best high school friends lost a leg last year in a bombing in Iraq. He would have that leg if Obama had kept his promise. He is a big bag of hot air.

And you talk about the safety and concern of the troops over there……..are you saying Bush did not care? Obama has done NOTHING….ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THE WAR THAT HE CLASSIFIED AS UNJUST.

Isobel - posted on 05/08/2010

and here's the article you wanted regarding violence against democrats from the far right

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/health...

Stephany - posted on 05/05/2010

A member of my family works for ICE. I can tell you right now that ICE does not have the time, resources, personnel, etc., to do random check-points. They may have 16 years ago- I highly doubt it (weren't they the INS then?), but I can't prove otherwise- but it is definitely not on the agenda now. I live in Oregon. I know we're not a border state, but we have a lost of people of hispanic descent because of all of the farms. He has told me that ICE here can only go after the rapists, murderers, kidnappers, drug cartel members- the worst of the worst. They aren't just pulling over a van of suspicious looking latino people on a family vacation. I'm not saying this never happens, I'm not saying it never did to your family- I'm just saying that I doubt it is a common occurence.
I was under the impression (because I read it in the paper and saw a report with a police officer in Arizona) that "lawful contact" can now include "looking like an illegal". I think we can clear all of this up if we just make all of the illegals paint their faces purple, or only wear Batman costumes, or maybe they would agree to all wear a sign that says "I am an illegal alien. Please hunt me like an animal, arrest me, and throw me over the fence. I am sorry for breaking the law- I was just trying to flee political upheaval, tyranical drug cartels, and I want to feed my family." That would make it easier to identify them amongst all of the legal hispanic residents of Arizona.
I read an article yesterday that was discussing the backlash against the state of Arizona for passing this bill. It said that the University of Arizona and Arizona State University have both received notice from am lot of out-of-state students that they will not be attending next fall because they fear being arrested. There is pressure on the MLB to move the site of next year's all-star game (which was slated to be held in AZ). Tourism officials in Arizona are saying that tourism will be gravely affected. On top of all of this, Governor Brewer is requesting funds to help enforce this new law!? Are you effing kidding me? She must have grabbed a pair of cajones off the last hispanic murderer she saw sitting in Diane's front lawn.

Ruth - posted on 05/05/2010

I'm not really sure why.. but you guys seem to think that the AZ law is some new special power. It's not all that different than the Federal Laws that empower ICE and other federal officials to do their job. Now while I do not live in AZ, NM or CA, but I have visited and one event is stuck vividly in my mind.



I was 10 so this was 16 years ago and we were driving on the interstate and were pulled over by ICE (my dad wasn't speeding, and there was no lawful reason for them to pull us over actually, but we were driving a van and it was loaded with luggage and 5 adults and 2 kids). Now since my family on my dad's side is of Hispanic descent (as a matter of fact we were on the way to visit family, and my mom is half Puerto Rican. We do look (except us young kids) we do look Hispanic. The ICE officer walked to the passenger side and asked that the sliding door of the van be opened and then he asked us each to say something. Now all of us live in the North East we all sound pretty much as "American" as you can get, So they let us go on our way. When we got to my Aunt's house in Tucson we asked her what it was about. and her response was ohh yeah it was an ICE check-point and they were checking for illegals (hence the say something checking for accents). Now if the ICE has the power to pull over a vehicle because it looks suspicious... What the heck is wrong with a state law that allows the local and state police to ask the same questions after LAWFUL CONTACT? Open borders, racism or any of these (as some like to use) Strawmen aside. How can you have a problem with a law that only allows State Law Enfocement Officers to go only as far as Federal Officers are allowed to go. And not an inch further.



So many people claim that illegal immigrants come to this country to do jobs that ordinary Americans won't do... well guess what the State of AZ has empowered their law enforment officers to do the jobs that ICE and the Feds won't do... and suddenly there's an uproar? sounds like hypocritical thinking to me!

Stephany - posted on 05/04/2010

This law in Arizona WILL lead to racial profiling- isn't that it's intent? Somebody posted above that the police will only enact this in the case of lawful contact- meaning that the person has to be suspected of breaking a law. Being an illegal immigrant means, inherently, that you are breaking the law, no? Therefore, is you are suspected of breaking the law (being an illegal immigrant) you can be pulled over and questioned. How is that NOT racial profiling? Anyone who argues otherwise is an idiot (that would be you, Mrs. Palin- gotcha!).

I don't know how we could solve the issues of illegal immigration. There are too many reasons, too many people, too many victims (on both sides of the border) to offer a simple answer. Maybe we could try to improve the conditions in Mexico so their citizens don't feel the need to risk their lives to flee from there (I'm actually surprised they haven't tried to claim political refugee status). Maybe we could legalize marijuana so the drug cartels aren't quite as powerful (though I think they'd just find something else to traffic). Maybe we could offer amnesty to those who have been here for a long period of time (I think I just heard a teabagger croak). Maybe we could build a gigantic fence (I've heard that some of "those people" actually know how to dig and/or climb, though).

I was entirely against illegal immigration until I became I mother. I was hard-nosed, "those people are breaking the law", "send them back on the next truck", kind of Palin-esque in my stance. However, the second I laid my eyes on my oldest son I knew I'd lay down my life for his. If I lived in squalor and had no way to ensure his safety, no way to ensure he had food to eat, no medicine to cure him, no doctor to see him, no education to teach him a better way of life- NOTHING but despair and gut instincts for survival- and I knew that all I had to do to make his life better (even a little) was to cross an arbitrary line (illegal or not), I'd do it a million times. Any parent who says anything different should be sterilized.

I was fortunate enough to be born in the U.S. My kids will be raised to have the same appreciation. However, to whom much is given much is expected. I will raise my kids to have sight beyond the borders and to have compassion for people less fortunate than they are. I only wish that all mothers felt the same.

LaCi - posted on 05/04/2010

Laci I addressed this. “no answer regarding the fact that searching American Citizens without a reason being unconstitutional? Or is it really OK when they have darker skin than you?”





I didn't write that, Diane. Get your replies straightened out.



Secondly, if the ONLY thing you were disappointed about with the Bush administration was the lack of immigration law, there really is something wrong with you.



Thirdly, Obama's campaign regarding withdrawing troops-which he still maintains he is doing- is relevant to this discussion in what way?





I don't believe in imaginary lines. They exist purely to be descriptive. We do NOT have a generous immigration policy, of that 800,000 priority is given to those who are seeking refugee status and those who are moving because of jobs, we even have a cap on the amount of refugees we allow. "Oh, you're being raped and beaten daily? they're going to set you on fire? Ohhh... Sorry we've met our quota, go home"

Iris - posted on 05/04/2010

If you remember Diane. US went into Afghanistan, THEN they went into Iraq for a reason very few people in this world understand. This was all during Bush presidency. Now, US gave Afghanistan over to NATO during that time. NATO lost control of the situation.

Obama gets elected and promises to bring the troops home, he didn't give a specific date. He has two wars to deal with: the one in Iraq and the one in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan has become more dangerous since NATO took over, but Iraq is slowly getting ready for the troops to pull out. We all know that there are political things to be delt with and finally this summer US see them being able to give Iraq over to there people and have estimated that the last US troop to be pulled out to be in Dec. 2010.

In the last 2 years Afghanistan on the other hand is getting more dangerous, so US have had to add to the troops over there. You don't get that? In order to stabilize the situation they need more troops. No one can predict what happens but I'm sure that if you, had a husband or a son over in Afghanistan you'd welcome more troops over there.

I can see Obama accomplishing pulling out of Iraq and I hope he'll be able to pull out of Afghanistan during his presidency but the safety of the troops that we already have there is of more concern.

But this is probably for another thread...

Diane - posted on 05/03/2010

Do you think everyone that comes here illegally are good people who don't want to harm anyone? You have no clue honey what our state and other border states have to put up with. Its not about migrant workers who come for short periods to do farming. This is about drug and human trafficking....kidnappings and CRIME.

This is more than guest and migrant worker programs.

We are not against immigration....WE ARE AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. The US has the most generous immigration policy in the world. We accept more legal immigrants than any other country. Last I read we take in over 800,000 foreigners.

Get this.....There is no Constitutional right for foreigners to immigrate to the US. NONE. We allow immigrants to enter our country and become citizens but that is a privilege NOT A RIGHT.
Immigration and who we allow in have a direct impact on our national security. And like I said our prisons are full of illegals who come over and commit crimes. We have a right as citizens to expect our government to follow its laws regarding this. We have a right to expect that they deport those that break the laws. Our elected officials...politicians, government officials do NOT HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO SELECTIVELY ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATIONS LAWS.

Remember Malvo the beltway sniper? He was an illegal from Jamaica. He was arrested and let go before he went on that killing spree. He murdered over ten people and injured countless more. Had he been deported immediately those people probably would be alive today.

I am sick of people playing on emotion to defend illegal behavior. Their battle cry....We should give amnesty because its the compassionate thing to do. But all amnesty does is reward illegal behavior and it only encourages others from following suit.

We as a nation can not keep supporting illegals financially. They use billions more in government services than they pay in taxes. Their fiscal burden to our society will break us.
I just don't understand why you do get the dangers that border states citizens face. Securing our borders is paramount to prevention of crime.
You say they need to be here because Americans wont do the work. Bull...Its not that we need illegal aliens to perform jobs most Americans deem beneath themselves to perform. Its that most illegals will perform these jobs at well below the free market wage. If it were true that Americans wont perform certain jobs, then the market would adjust as free markets always do. When labor shortages exist, expanding businesses respond by offering more money to a limited labor pool. We can live without illegals.

The truth of the matter is that illegals are draining our economy. Yes we are a nation of immigrants but we also are a nation of laws. Our system of self government is contingent upon the rules of law. It is unethical and immoral for the government to force the taxpayer to give their wages towards the upkeep of lawbreakers.

Kate - posted on 05/03/2010

"Who the hell cares if you are stopped and asked a question for the betterment of society. Like it really was that inconvenient? How the hell do you think the police are suppose to do their jobs. None of you obviously have family who are in law enforcement."

Diane, I wonder how you would feel about this same treatment if it were being used on people to say, see who those were who were speaking ill of the President (or anything else that YOU may be in trouble for). You don't want a Communist/Socialist state...so you say.

Second, you made a comment about people not having family in law enforcement. NOT ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGREES WITH THIS LAW AT ALL. THey think that it will do harm to relationships that they've been trying to build for years and puts them in a catch 22 (as you can be sued for NOT enforcing the law, but then many people have sued for the racial profiling already).

Thirdly, just because someone has a different opinion from you doesn't mean they "don't understand the issue and never will." It simply means they DON'T AGREE WITH YOU.

Fourth, after all the hoopla over this bill, the President has said that things need to change and that the Federal Govt. needs to start looking at immigration reform laws. The party of NO has come out again and REPUBLICANS in congress are those saying that the country isn't ready to deal with it now...there is too much else going on. This same thing happened when Bush was President.

And yes, I totally disagree with the WAY that this is being handled. And Diane, I actually LIVE in California and teach in a school that is about 96% latino. I assume that SOME are probably here illegally. Like others, I agree that some illegals cause a problem and it is a problem, I just disagree with the way that this is being handled.

My co-teacher was brought over here illegally when she was 12. She got married, graduated from college with a BA in History and a Masters in Education and History and now works hard for her students so that they'll be better citizens in society and have opportunities outside of their poor neighborhoods.

Lastly, where do you get your statistics for how many students are illegals in classrooms? Did you know that 86.73% of statistics are made up on the spot?

Jenny - posted on 05/03/2010

Companies in our area fly Mexicans up here seasonally and board them to do the agriculture work the people who live here don't want to do.

Celia - posted on 05/03/2010

Dident that lady get the example from her teacher in elementary school... you know, the one where they seperate the class by eye colour and say all the blue eyed kids dont get a snack but the brown eyed kids do.
I thought racism was a thing of the past, and lets admit it, in the case of Mexicans being in the states illegaly... puuullease!!! Tell me who does most of the farm labor that puts food on your plates and mine, or worked for almost nothing to make all out crap on the assembly lines (no not the well paid assembly lignes like cars but your made in america cotton t-shirts people don so happily as a snub to buying China. Say a big thank you to those Mexical migrants because they travel the country following seasonal jobs and making Walmart very happy now that they have a food department!

Isobel - posted on 05/03/2010

so long as we're all clear then...it's ok if the government stops and searches teabaggers in the cities that have the crosshairs on them?

Diane - posted on 05/03/2010

Iris what did you think of the video clips where Obama says he will bring the troops home…..first thing, you can take that to the bank?



It has been two years since he made those statements. He did not talk about some massive plan to bring them home.



Laci I addressed this. “no answer regarding the fact that searching American Citizens without a reason being unconstitutional? Or is it really OK when they have darker skin than you?”



In many countries you have to carry documentation with you at all times. We are not talking about every police office in the state illegally searching citizens for the fun of it. And I could care less if they searched me. If there is a murder or crime in my area and they are looking for a woman my age and build……..STOP ME. Set up road blocks and stop all those that fit the description.



You have a terrible view and opinion of police and law enforcement. You have no respect that they would not search without reason. Again…..you want to protect the lawbreakers and punish the victim.



Lets review the videos Laci.



Video one……..”I will promise you this, if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the FIRST THING I WILL DO. I WILL GET OUR TROOPS HOME AND BRING AND END TO THIS WAR. You can take that to the bank.”



Video two……In this video he talks about a lot of things….he says that it is possible to get one or two command groups out a month…..he said, “We will begin immediately and we will do it rapidly. …”I am going to bring this war to a close, and get our combat troops out within 16 months.” “We will not have permanent bases there.” “That would be sometime in 2009.”



Video three says he will end the war. He has now been in office … in November it will be two years. You tell me …has he kept his promise on this one? Has he brought anyone home? How many additional troops has he sent?



When he first took office he sent seventeen thousand to Afgan. Then he sent thirty thousand more troops he sent over. He completely turns around. Now he says troops won’t start coming home until summer of 2011. LOL It’s more of the same lies. The promises he used to get him elected….have come full circle.



There are double the troops in Afgan then when Bush left office.



And for your information I was very disappointed in Bush the last year. I wanted him to do something about the illegal issue and he did not do anything. But the crap he had to deal with….the LEFT who crucified and called him Hitler….was inexcusable.



Let me ask you this. Were there any other acts of violence from the ME on American soil? He kept us safe. At least he did not hang around with people who hate and want to bring American down. At least he was not a socialist.

LaCi - posted on 05/03/2010

And I'm pretty sure no one could possibly hold a candle to the deception of the bush administration. Pretty sick of the democrat republican nonsense.

LaCi - posted on 05/03/2010

Video #1, Obama says if the troops aren't home by the time he's elected he will bring them home. He intends to, so why don't you give him more than a year to accomplish a horrendously huge task, when he's out and he still hasn't done so you can complain.

2nd video: Discusses a PHASE withdrawal.

3rd video: Just says he WILL bring the troops home with no mention of WHEN

And I'm not sure how obama is relevant- considering you have NO idea who anyone supported during the election and this discussion is on arizona tax law.

Isobel - posted on 05/03/2010

no answer regarding the fact that searching American Citizens without a reason being unconstitutional? Or is it really OK when they have darker skin than you?

Diane - posted on 05/03/2010

Take your pick.

Take this one to the bank.




This one is good.







Obama did not say that he would bring them home two years after taking office. To date he has done nothing to bring anyone home. HE HAS SENT MORE OVER.

The videos speak…………why don’t you listen?

I bring this up because this is the one thing he spoke of the most during his campaign. He obviously was not against the war………come on. Why hasn’t he done anything?
He is a liar, a master deceiver……..he came to divide and conquer. Sorta like someone else I know. LOL

Isobel - posted on 05/03/2010

my question was...would it be constitutional for ALL teabaggers to be stopped and questioned and searched, because a few are fringe lunatics threatening violence?

Since you claim it is OK for them to stop and search all black people in NYC because a few were in gangs, and it's OK to stop all Mexicans in Arizona because some are illegal, I assume you would have no problem with being stopped and searched randomly while on your way to the grocery store or to work.

LaCi - posted on 05/03/2010

if they are LEGAL they are CITIZENS diane, YOU don't want people to be citizens, YOU just want people deported or thrown in jail.



We DO hire teachers to teach citizens, and they are paid for with our taxes, why is socialism only acceptable in certain situations? God forbid people flee a country we have done nothing but help destroy to seek some kind of opportunity to support their families. God forbid we help people survive, who the hell want's people to EAT or get MEDICAL ATTENTION? only the strong.. no, the RICH should survive, right?



Seems to me republicans hide behind the idea of less government unless it benefits whatever cause they have. Bombing civilians, sending our own to slaughter, building giant walls, giving up rights in the name of safety, thats all fine. When it comes to the government offering up plans to potentially benefit the overall wellbeing of our people AND other people republicans flip their wig, because helping people isn't right, only murdering people is acceptable.



I never heard Obama say anything to the effect of "bring the troops home as soon as i'm elected."



What I heard him say was remove troops from iraq, and not immediately, in his first term. This also doesn't mean troops will be home.



If you want to stop the crime, legalize marijuana. If you want people to be LEGAL citizens, then ALLOW THEM TO BE CITIZENS. YOU want to throw them back over the border, then they'll cross again you'll throw them back again, then they'll cross again. you aren't solving ANY problem with this legislation. You're just perpetuating and endless cycle of immigration. And illegals DO contribute to your states economy, every time they BUY something and pay sales tax, every time the work a FARM so my produce doesn't cost 10x what I can afford. Immigration does NOT equal violent crime, prohibition is the cause of your violent crime. Arizona is central to DRUG TRADE, you think throwing the hardworking farm hands who happen to be illegal is going to reduce the drug related violent crime? NO, because the money in that industry is worth the deportation of millions of illegal immigrants, and the risk of arrest is worth the money the cartels will pay them.





Secondly, I don't remember EVER calling you a racist, YOU brought that up.





Fair tax policy is a simple way to eliminate the complaint that illegals don't pay taxes and therefore don't deserve benefits, among its MANY other benefits that no person who has educated his/herself on the policy could deny regardless of political affiliation. There are REAL solutions to every complaint that NO politician is looking at. Instead they spend more money just continuing the same cycle they complain about, when they could be making profit off the alternatives that would actually do some good.

Iris - posted on 05/03/2010

You are right……..sorta reminds me of the double messages that Obama says about this darn war. I WILL BRING THE TROOPS HOME AS SOON AS I AM ELECTED!!!! Well we all know he didn’t do that now don’t we.





You bring this up over and over again and I'm just curious. Did you expect the troops to be flown in from Iraq the same day he got into the office? Or even the same month? Did you not think that a massive plan like this would take time and would be a slow process?

As I understand it, he has been working on bringing the troops home SAFELY since he took over. They expect to be able to give Iraq over to its people this summer and the last troops to be home by December 2010.

I know I'm off topic, sorry about that, I'm just curious what your expectations were on this particular issue.

Diane - posted on 05/02/2010

Laci said, “*slams head against wall* If they are LEGAL you aren't footing the bill for them! they are paying for themselves!”
That is not what I am talking about. We are footing the bill for the illegals. Let me ask you this. If there was a mass murderer in your neighborhood and he was 6 feet 5 inches tall and white, who should the police profile? Mexicans? Muslims? Blacks? Who are the police supposed to stop?
Illegal’s do not pay for themselves the law abiding taxpayers pay for them.

“And if you stop blowing up iraqis (afghan civilians, and pakistan's civilians... is that all right now? I thought there were more people we were blowing up thanks to republicans...) you have PLENTY of money for teachers.”
What the hell are you talking about? If the war was that bad….Obama would have ended it by now. Mr. Blowhard, I’ll bring the troops home the minute I get elected, has not brought ONE TROOP HOME. And the Democrats voted to go to war based on the same evidence that the Republicans had.
Let’s hire teachers to teach the citizens of the UNITED STATES. What do you not get? Why should my tax dollars go to people who are not even citizens? And why do you think the US taxpayer should foot the bill and support everyone in the world? Laci you are pathetic if you think that I hate people of color. You can’t obviously think for yourself or even entertain the thought that someone might have a different idea than yours and it might be right and they might not be racist. I have friends who are Muslims. I have friends who are black. To say because I do not support socialism I am a racist is narrow minded. Is that all ya got? Do you think that everyone in Arizona is white and Republican? Do you think that there aren’t minorities who just might think what Brewer did was right? We are sick of it in Arizona and if you don’t like it tough. And if anyone sounds like they are intolerant you do.
If we close the borders we would have extra money to put towards things like education and taking care of our own poor. We also would have less crime, kidnapping and drug trafficking. Then many of the hospitals in border states could reopen.

Krista our governor I am sure researched this with Constitutional scholars. She never would have gone against what laws we already have in place. You mention the 4th Amendment. Anyone stopped by the police could scream that they violated this. Most the illegal’s in our state happen to be Mexican. Should police be prohibited from stopping and questioning all Mexicans? You’re implying that every police officer in my state is unreasonable, that they all would profile and stop people for no reason. You want to tie the hands of those who are working to keep us safe because YOU certainly do not want to protect the possible victim. Jeb Bush is biased because his wife is Mexican. That explains why George sat on his arse and did nothing about the border problem. Neither side wants to do anything because they do not want to lose votes. And in the meantime our state and other border states are paying for it.
I do not know where you live Krista but I would certainly love it if you drove down here and rounded them all up (that is if you can find them all)……and took them home with you. You could give them all the things that they want. Our Founders I am sure did not believe that America should have open borders. I am sure they were law abiding men who believed in charity from the heart and not in redistributing the wealth by forcing its citizens to purchase things they do not want to buy. We are a nation of laws and we have immigration ones on the books. We need to start enforcing them or pretty soon we will not have the America they dreamed about.

Laura………I want you to show me incidents where Tea Party members have done acts of violence…killed, injured people. I think Laura that you care more about lawbreakers than you do about keeping citizens safe. I would also guess that you do not live remotely close to a border state but in a nice wealthy neighborhood where you don’t even need police because you all are so perfect that you do not need protection. For you to compare Tea Party members to illegals is ridiculous and shows that you are desperate.
Theresa said, “Well "common sense" would tell me that you can't be FOR racial profiling and then when someone accuses you AND others of racial profiling, you ACCUSE them of being divisive and inflammatory!”
You are right……..sorta reminds me of the double messages that Obama says about this darn war. I WILL BRING THE TROOPS HOME AS SOON AS I AM ELECTED!!!! Well we all know he didn’t do that now don’t we.

I am for profiling……..and finding the criminal any way we can to protect innocent humans. If that means stopping and asking for documentation……….then that is what they need to do.

Isobel - posted on 04/30/2010

craziest thing...I could swear I hear crickets

Theresa - posted on 04/30/2010

Speaking of Sarah Palin....I saw her on FOX news, defending the Arizona immigration law. She claims that this law WOULD NOT promote racial profiling and that anyone who would suggest that, is just trying to be divisive and innflammatory.



Mmmmm....is this the same Sarah Palin that said only a few short months ago, that America needs to stop being "politically correct" and start racial profiling, to protect the good, decent people of this country? I believe she said she was ALL FOR IT!



Well "common sense" would tell me that you can't be FOR racial profiling and then when someone accuses you AND others of racial profiling, you ACCUSE them of being divisive and inflammatory!



There goes that old "double standard" thingy again...gosh darn!



(took off links...wouldn't open up. will try again later).

Jenny - posted on 04/29/2010

That sounds completely reasonable to me Laura. Where I come from, putting cross hairs over anything is a direct threat.

Isobel - posted on 04/29/2010

I have heard threats of violence several times on COM by Tea Party members (note the capitals...a sign of respect) "a war...and I don't mean on the senate floor" etc etc.

Here's what I think...I think that in every town where the Lovely Mrs. Palin placed those cross hairs on her map of America, TeaBaggers ought to be questioned and checked.

I, for one, would not feel safe as a democrat living amongst those people. How reasonable does that sound do you Diane?

They'd only be doing their job to make sure that Americans felt safe, and that no laws were being violated, checking for permits for the guns you may be carrying...surely you would not have a problem with a policy like that?

Krista - posted on 04/29/2010

Sigh. Diane, several comments down, I explained VERY clearly how this law is very likely a gross violation of the Fourth Amendment.

But instead of addressing that, you seem to keep insisting that we want to reward illegal immigrants.

Pointing out that a law is extra-legal and flawed Does. Not. Mean. that we do not think that there should be any laws. I just think that if you guys are going to pass laws to deal with immigration, it'd be nifty if they were a) within the parameters of your own country's constitution, and b) not so draconian that even Jeb Bush is appalled.

You're asking me if I care about the law. Sure I do. I'm asking YOU if you care about the ideals upon which your country was founded, because from where I'm sitting, it sure as hell doesn't look like it. From where I'm sitting, it appears that you would be utterly thrilled to turn America into a police state -- as long as it results in making YOUR life better.

LaCi - posted on 04/29/2010

and couldn't hiring teachers be considered "stimulating the economy"?



I think these ideas you disagree with because you want to maintain a majority pale america actually have plenty of benefits you refuse to address.



If we can't afford teachers how can we afford massive border control, increases in immigration employees, court costs, transport and jail costs, etc.

LaCi - posted on 04/29/2010

*slams head against wall*



If they are LEGAL you aren't footing the bill for them! they are paying for themselves!



And if you stop blowing up iraqis (afghan civilians, and pakistan's civilians... is that all right now? I thought there were more people we were blowing up thanks to republicans...) you have PLENTY of money for teachers.

Diane - posted on 04/28/2010

We do not have to reform immigration laws we need to follow the laws we already have prosecute the law breakers. We have a system already in place, we have not been following it. The land mass in the United States is not big enough to take on the entire worlds population. The American taxpayer should not have to foot the bill for the entire world. It is impossible and we should not be expected to do so.
We are a nation that was build on the backs of its immigrants. What was the population back then? Did we have the likes of Middle Eastern terrorists trying to come through our borders? You can not compare the immigrants that came over then, to those who come through today.

How many immigrants should we continue to admit?

Obama does nothing since becoming President about illegals, he blasts this law before even looking into it. Then he turns around and says they should have to sign papers pay a fine (another way to pay for his trillion dollar new health plan) and LEARN ENGLISH. lmao
Who will foot the bill and pay for all the teachers to do this? You put them on buses and you send them home that's what you do. If they want to learn English, then let the Mexican government pay for it. The register part.....new democrats?????
If I remember right, Obama voted NO to making English the national language. The guy is an idiot. Why is the LEFT always so opposed to a crackdown on crime?

And in Arizona....we are now doing the job that the Feds would not do....protecting the health, safety and welfare of our citizens.

If I were governor...... I would load up all our illegals on busses and drop them off where all you guys live.

Diane - posted on 04/28/2010

How did this violate the Constitution....give me proof.
Are you aware that it is against the law to be in the United States without proper documentation? What about that law? Or dont you care about that one?
What happens to people who break the law? Are they usually rewarded or pay a penalty. You want to reward them......I want to penalize them.

Diane - posted on 04/28/2010

It is illegal to be in this country without proper documentation. If you do you are breaking the law and you have to pay....not be rewarded.

Krista - posted on 04/28/2010

And you know what is HI-larious? Now Arizona is asking the federal government for money to implement this law. Not that I'm unsympathetic to the problem of illegal immigration, but if a state is going to go rogue and start passing laws that violate the country's own constitution, then it does take a certain amount of chutzpah to then start asking for the feds to pony up the cash for it, no?

Theresa - posted on 04/28/2010

Searches and Seizures: The Limitations of the Police.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What the Police MAY NOT Do:





•The police may not perform a warrantless search anywhere you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, unless one of the warrant exceptions applies.



•If evidence was obtained through an unreasonable or illegal search, the police may not use it against you in a trial. This is called the "exclusionary rule."



•The police may not use evidence resulting from an illegal search to find other evidence.



•The police may not submit an affidavit in support of obtaining a search warrant if they did not have a reasonable belief in the truth of the statements in the affidavit.



•Unless there is a reasonable suspicion that it contains evidence, illegal items, or stolen goods, the police may not search your vehicle. If your car has been confiscated by the police, however, they may search it.



•Unless they have a reasonable suspicion that you are involved in a criminal activity, the police may not "stop and frisk" you. If they have a reasonable suspicion, they may pat down your outer clothing if they are concerned that you might be concealing a weapon.





This is being done everyday anyway. Many cases either don't go to trial or get thrown out because the police cannot prove their cases. I foresee a lot of this happening in Arizona. Wasted taxpaper money because of overzealous and pressured law enforcement stopping everybody unnecessarily.

Rosie - posted on 04/28/2010

thank you jamie, you said things a hell of a lot better than i ever could.

Jamie - posted on 04/28/2010

I know this is a heated issue, but it would be nice if some of these posts were a little less inflammatory and a little more substantial.

I'd pose a question: How many of you have actually read the bill that was passed into law in it's entirety?

It states that a law officer can only ask for identification if he has made "lawful contact" with the person (typically this involves traffic violations, petty crimes, etc.). Later on in the bill it states that a law officer may arrest a person only if he has probable cause to believe the person has committed an offense that makes them removable from the United States. Ironically, this is pretty much how the law goes for everybody already. If you’re in a traffic accident, the cops will ask for your ID, if he thinks you've committed an offence, he'll arrest you.

The problem with this law is that it targets illegal immigration, specifically. In the state in which almost 70% of illegal immigrants come into the country through, it is impossible to "crack down" on illegal immigration without it being a racial issue. If they passed a similar law in say, Washington state, it could be argued that they're attempting to profile Canadians (would that be accent profiling?).

I think unfortunately, some people will use this law to work out their own racist agendas, we as citizens need to be vigilant and hold such people responsible for their actions. If this law is going to work at all (and i am skeptical) it would only do so if we were able to protect the human rights of the innocent.

I feel the passage of this bill is a result of desperation of the Arizona government after many administrations worth of impotence on the federal government's part. As for my support of the bill, i'm choosing to wait it out and see what happens before i make my decision either way. I am conflicted, as i am an Arizona citizen, but also wary of laws that may infringe on human rights.


More to my point, I find it both disgusting and embarrassing that the federal government would sit idly by as hundreds of people are raped, murdered and die of starvation and dehydration as they're transported illegally across the desert. I find it horrifying that the general consensus is to allow the people who come here illegally to continue to do so in the manner they do, so they can work "undesirable" and underpaid jobs that American citizens would DEMAND fair pay and rights for. I find it despicable that these "human rights champion" unions would fail to organize protection of naturalized or under-documented workers who are IMPORTED by CORPORTATIONS supported by the federal government as INDENTURED SERVANTS.

It makes me sick, to think of the human rights violations committed every day with regards to this problem that everyone ignores. The Catholic Church decries this law as a potential human rights violation, but it refuses to acknowledge or help those people trying to get here lawfully, or those people dying in the desert at the mercy of the monsters bringing them over.

I do not believe the answer is open borders, as the problem with illegal immigration is already not knowing who is coming over, what they're here for, or what they're bringing with them.

I think we need to give legal status to people who have been here for a number of years, or the "anchored illegals" who have children who are citizens, and close the borders so we have better control over who comes in. I don't think it's unreasonable to demand a background check for legal immigration as Canada does. I also don't think it's unreasonable to demand that visiting non-citizens carry legal documentation, like Europe does.

Did you know in Italy you have to present your passport to rent a car or a hotel room? They'll either make a copy of your passport take your passport from you and store it in a safe the entire time you're staying at the hotel, you also have to carry a copy of your passport on you at all times. The police in Italy can and will stop you on the street and ask for your identification if they feel the need. The identification issue is not a "nazi" issue, it's one that is being addressed around the world in various countries. As of yet, i don't have a reason to believe that this law will be any more of a human rights violation than the law in Italy (or any other Western European country that practices a similar law).

I believe that this country is built on the backs of immigrants, and i believe that in order to allow immigrants to become fully participating individuals in our country, we need to reform our immigration laws so that lawful immigrants will have an easier time integrating into our society. I don't think it's reasonable to demand that people come here from different countries, remain citizens of their own countries and at the same time partake in government assistance and receive our constitutional rights.

Theresa - posted on 04/28/2010

Someone just sent me a private message, but I thought I would respond publicly in case other people felt the same way. I am not a racist! I don't hate white people. I don't BLAME white people for EVERY problem a minority has. I don't think every WHITE person is racist. I don't think every POLICE OFFICER is racist and patrols communities looking to arrest every and anyone. And I don't think EVERY tea partier, birther or Republican is a racist either.



Yes, I DO think illegal immigration is a problem. When I mentioned earlier that my son's school was overcrowed..it is! He has to be bussed literally across town, because the school right down the street was "decoupled" due to the overwhelming population growth. His classroom is NOT a classroom. It is the back of the cafeteria! 6 classrooms are separated by dividers. There are at least 28 kids in each of these classes. There are no doors, windows, ventilation systems and only 4 toilets that each class has to share (that's about 150 kids)! That is a PROBLEM!!!! It is unsafe, unhealthy and unsanitary. Not to mention, distracting, loud and difficult to both learn AND teach!



But I didn't call for all the illegals to be rounded up and deported. I didn't ask to have documented workers and citizens walk around with their papers. I as well as other Democrats in my district, voted to a voluntary tax INCREASE (against strict opposition from the Republicans)!! In 2012 a new elementary school will be completed and in 2013 a new middle school will be completed!



You see I believe immigration will never stop! This country is too great and offers so much. I want what's fair and what will benefit everyone! Not just one group of people over another. I don't see how that makes me a racist!!!



By the way...crime committed BY Mexicans in my town are much lower than the crimes committed AGAINST them.

~Jennifer - posted on 04/28/2010

They tried this in Hazleton, PA when I was living there back in '06. The Illegal Immigration Relief Act - $1000 fine to any landlord that rented to an illegal ($1000 / per illegal in the residence, actually) loss of rental permits for non-compliance. Landlords had to prove the citizenship status of their perspective tenants before they would be able to receive a certificate of occupancy from the city for the rental property and renters. Businesses were discouraged from hiring illegals via hefty fines (per illegal worker) and loss of their license to do business in the city for up to 10 years.

It was overturned as 'unconstitutional' in July of '07 by a federal judge. I've since moved from the state, so I have no idea if the city's appeal was successful. Lou Barletta, who was (maybe still is?) Mayor at the time and main figurehead behind the ordinance, is, I believe, now running for Congress.

Theresa - posted on 04/28/2010

You know Krista, when we "liberals" say that the "birthers" and "tea partiers" and "ammendmenters" are racist or "purists" at their core....we get a lot of grief! We are accused of having "nothing legitimate" to argue about. We are accused of using the "race card" as a manipulation tool to gain sympathy. We are even accused of being racist ourselves.



I have been saying for months, that the mantra, "we want our country back" has more to do with the desire to live in a "America" BEFORE immigration, civil rights, women's rights, and EVERYTHING else that benefits non-white Americans, RATHER than "big government is evil" and "Obama is a socialist", like they all claim.



Laci, I don't know if legalizing ALL drugs would stop the crime, but I AM in favor of legalizing marijuana. I mean, medicinally it seems to have a lot of benefits. I don't understand how drugs like "Ritalin", that is derived from cocaine can be legal, but drugs derived from marijuana aren't. I think it would bring in a lot of revenue to each state and bring down the price of drugs that claim to do the same thing, that most Americans can't afford.

Rosie - posted on 04/27/2010

krista, that makes me ill.

LaCi - posted on 04/27/2010

So i hear on satellite today that arizona supports the bill, 70% in favor. The tiny bit of republican in me says, well, so be it. They'll figure it out when it doesn't work. Oddly enough, their hispanic population is about 30%, so I guess that means white people in favor, hispanics opposed. I'm getting pretty tired of caring to be honest. I just want my own island, no one gets in. Total border control ;)

Krista - posted on 04/27/2010

Awesome:
_______________________
The main guy taking credit for the new law is Kris Kobach — a Birther who’s running for Kansas secretary of state. But his Birtherism is the least offensive thing about Kobach.

His campaign Website brags, “Kobach wins one in Arizona.” He’s also an attorney for the Immigration Reform Law Institute, the legal arm of an immigration group called FAIR, the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

[....]

For nine of the first years of FAIR’s existence, the group reportedly received more than $1 million in funding from something called the Pioneer Fund. The Pioneer Fund describes itself as based “in the Darwinian-Galtonian evolutionary tradition and eugenics movement.” For the last 70 years, the Pioneer Fund has funded controversial research about race and intelligence, essentially aimed at proving the racial superiority of white people. The group’s original mandate was to promote the genes of those “deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original 13 states prior to the adoption of the Constitution.