Oil Spill Timeline

Jenny - posted on 07/12/2010

On his (in)actions I agree 100% Kelly. This is our planet, we must be vigilant in protecting it.

The other stuff, not so much but this is not the thread to get into that.

LaCi - posted on 07/12/2010

Well we have green roof trends now, which use plants rather than shingles. Anything made from petroleum can be made from plant oils. You don't have to "redo" the roads, or even all the roofing in america immediately. I'm not sure why that's the direction you're going with this. It's about discontinuing the production of these products and moving on in the direction our modern capabilities allow for. We are fully capable of retrieving our energy from non-toxic, renewable sources, we are fully capable of manufacturing plastics (and everything else) without drilling.

And thank you kelly, I've been trying to see the critic perspective but haven't been able to get any answers.

Michelle - posted on 07/12/2010

I am confused as to what alternate forms of product that you think we are capable of using for the shingles on your roof or the pavement on our roads?? OR even better where you think the money is going to come from to unpave and redo 2.6 million miles of road in the United States alone?

Kelly - posted on 07/12/2010

I somehow missed this thread until now, I have been focusing in DM the last couple of days. LaCi, I will answer your question.

What do / did I expect Obama to do? Be a fucking leader. He missed his shot in 18 MONTHS to fix the problems at MMS. His pick for MMS chief? Some chick with absolutely no experience in deep water drilling. NONE. Jindal requested permission to build berms to try to protect coastline and marshes. (He needed Presidential approval to do it legally) Obama took over a month to get back to him, and then said to only build a few (five I think?) Then they shut it down, even though it is working, because the government is concerned about the area they are dredging. He could have waived the Jones Act, and allowed other countries to assist with equipment and manpower to help, he did not. At the same time, he failed to obtain and organize the equipment that would be needed to effectively clean up the spilt oil, or protect our shorelines. He has failed to waive the Death on the High Seas Act, which limits compensation to families of those that died during the explosion on the rig. He has absolutely no knowledge of maritime law. He has proven AGAIN that he is incapable of leading, and incapable of managing. Situations like this are where that pesky little detail known as EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE come in handy. Obama has done nothing but prove that book smarts will only get you so far in life. He doesn't have the ability, or the gumption to actually BE the Commander in Chief. He likes the title, and the perks (they feed his ever hungry ego) but he doesn't like the job, and he can't handle the job. Period.

* edited to add* on second thought, I guess he did manage to get one group of people organized, mobilized, and down to the gulf in record time, the fucking lawyers. Says a lot about the kind of man he is doesn't it?

LaCi - posted on 07/12/2010

Okay, so I'm seriously going to go with "there is no reason to blame the president for anything to do with the oilspill, republicans are whiney fucking bitches" if someone doesn't answer my question.



As for we use oil based products- absolutely, because we HAVE to, the point is we wouldn't have to if we'd just fucking move on. We don't NEED this system or to stay in this cycle. There are PLENTY of other options we are fully capable of pursuing. Apon realizing my laundry detergent had oil based products in it, I switched to a detergent that used coconut oil. big freakin' deal, but we will NEVER move on to different products, different energy sources, and a positive way of life if people sit back and support more fucking drilling. Quite frankly I don't even care anymore, I'm pretty sure we're a fucking plague and we should all just die off. SO who gives a shit.

Michelle - posted on 07/11/2010

Which goes back to my original post that the United States needs to start drilling for the own oil and stop buying it from everyone else.

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

Yup! It's the truth. We give you all of ours and buy our own overseas. And the corporations make a huge profit out of the entire thing. And it's not just Canada that does it:



A Sudden Plunge In Production?



Is Venezuela's oil production rapidly waning? One source reports that the world's fifth largest oil producer is showing signs of a rapid decrease in production, one of the key tenets of the peak oil theory.



Venezuela is buying oil from Russia in order to avoid defaulting on deliveries to clients. The situation raises serious questions about the country's oil production and the future of PDVSA as a major oil producer, and increases the risk to the U.S. oil supply should the country's oil production suddenly plummet.



According to the Financial Times: "Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, has struck a $2bn deal to buy about 100,000 barrels a day of crude oil from Russia until the end of the year. Venezuela has been forced to turn to an outside source to avoid defaulting on contracts with "clients" and "third parties" as it faces a shortfall in production, according to a person familiar with the deal. Venezuela could incur penalties if it fails to meet its supply contracts."



The news has so far been very much inside baseball, as it has not made the mainstream, due to competition from more sensational stories such as the illegal alien marches, and the media's obsession with oil company profits.





Thus is the way of things in a world run by multi-national corporations rather than state governments. I wonder how much oil it takes to ship all of this oil around the world?

Michelle - posted on 07/11/2010

That's even better since we import most of our oil from Canada and Canada imports 55% of their oil from Saudi Arabia, Algeria, and Venezuela.

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/trend...

http://www.canadians.org/energy/issues/e...

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

Are the Americans on here aware that the vast majority of your oil imports are actually from Canada, and not the Middle East? We account for double what the Saudis send you. If the concern about supporting terrorist regimes by importing oil from those countries was legitimate amongst your politicians, Canada has the capacity to make up the difference. The push for American domestic oil production to be ramped up because oil dollars are supporting terrorist regimes is rhetoric without fact, pure & simple. I can understand the desire to produce your own oil, but it isn't in order to avoid supporting terrorists.

Michelle - posted on 07/11/2010

I have read several post from women saying their families do not utilize oil... So I guess my questions is what kind of car do you drive, because even the tires are made from an oil based material? What kind of roof is on your house? because I can promise you it has oil based materials. What kind of roads do you drive on?

I think we should keep on drilling for oil in our own damn country and leave the rest of the world's oil alone. If we would open the oil fields out west and drill for oil along our coast we wouldn't need to be bartering with Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or any other middle eastern country. Imagine how many jobs could be made if we would become a self sustaining country drilling for our own oil and any other alternate form of energy.

Is he guilty of not giving a crap about the oil spill. Absolutely. Why because Bush was guilty of not giving a crap about Katrina.

Do I really mean that NO... It was not Bush's fault that Katrina hit New Orleans anymore than it is Obama's fault that the oil spill happened. We all need to stop pointing fingers and work together to fix the problem. IF you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

Well, and if all the interviews with the people in the area I've seen are representative of the views of the locals, they didn't want the president to be involved, they wanted the right to do their own thing. Which I agree with. I don't agree with the skimmers not being used since the beginning, but that's not him, its the epa. I think people give the president entirely too much credit. He isn't the alpha and omega of the government, he has very little power in the grand scheme of things.

ME - posted on 07/11/2010

I know Laci...I agree...I don't know what else he's supposed to do either...??? I also have a feeling that if the fed. gov't took more control over this MAN MADE disaster, the men who caused it would have some legal way of getting out of paying for their mess...Something along the lines of "BP could have cleaned this up faster, so we aren't going to take financial responsibility for anything after the date the federal government butted in"...

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

Dammit. Somebody answer my question ;/

what would you expect Obama to do that he has not done, as far as things that are within Obamas power and solely depend on him?

Christa - posted on 07/11/2010

By letting it make a bigger mess it helps his agenda, that was my point.

Christa - posted on 07/11/2010

Mary, you're right. I do believe if they could have stopped it they would have. I'm referring (and should have been more specific) more to the clean up efforts, I think they should have been handled MUCH better. I blame the administration more for this, because while BP needs to help their primary focus needs to be shutting it down. The gov't should have gotten more resources down there faster to help contain and clean up this mess.

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

Nobody is qualified to be commander in chief, your standards allow for only someone supernatural to hold that office.

ME - posted on 07/11/2010

"I personally think he’s purposely letting this continue because it gets more and more people on the “stop drilling” band wagon. He is allowing this destruction to continue to serve his own political agenda. IMO"

awww...come on...that's a horrible thing to say, and there is no evidence of anything even remotely like that going on...if there was a way to fix this, the experts would have done it by now! We just have to deal with the fact that this kind of devastation is the result of an unregulated assault on our natural environment, and as long as we continue to allow business to make money off the destruction of our planet, future devastation is likely.

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

blah. The only place I encounter conservatives and I still don't get an answer ;(

Christa - posted on 07/11/2010

This wasn't meant to start the renewable energy debate again, I think we are all in on that on in DM. This is to criticize this administration as evidence that he is not qualified to be commander and chief. He MUST be voted out in 2012. Where are all the people that were up Bush’s butt about Katrina? Obama has botched this was worse then that. I personally think he’s purposely letting this continue because it gets more and more people on the “stop drilling” band wagon. He is allowing this destruction to continue to serve his own political agenda. IMO

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

I know from personal experience with a close cousin that hemp will grow beautifully hydroponically.

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

Hemp plants can produce about half a ton of seeds per Acre but such production is currently relatively expensive. Hemp seeds contain 30% oil, compared to 18% for soybeans, 30% for canola, and 40% for flax. Thus hemp’s Oil content is comparable to that of any other common oil crop. But hemp oil has its problems—the oil degrades even more quickly than other vegetable oils and it is much more expensive than current oil crops. Hemp Biodiesel theoretically can a source of energy. However, it does not appear to offer any significant advantages over other biodiesel sources

http://www.oilgae.com/energy/sou/ae/re/b...

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

I wonder if you could grow hemp hydroponically too. LOL We've got a fairly good capacity for that around here. Might drive the price of weed up though.

ME - posted on 07/11/2010

Well...for starters, many farmers are paid NOT to plant crops in their fields, so we could plant hemp there without effecting food supplies or prices, and it would probably lead to more jobs, or at least more income for farmers...

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

Could we grow enough hemp to replace petroleum without interfering with our food supplies and significantly raising food prices? Remember what has been happening with using corn and sugarcane for bio-fuel and how it lead to spikes in food prices that were only brought down by the recession. I am not opposed, I simply am not sure if it is the completely right solution for some of these things. It takes a LOT of hemp to make the oil.

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

The short answer Carol is hemp. Fields and fields of hemp.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5382986_uses-h...



Hemp oil can be used in every application that is currently using petroleum. Hemp oil is a green alternative to dirty fossil fuels in almost every consumer commodity. As a food, hemp oil is nutritious and contains all the the essential fatty acids required for cell function. As a base oil for plastics, body care, fuel and paints, hemp oil has the required properties and can easily replace petroleum in each of these product categories.



Body Care

When used alone, hemp oil is a natural, moisturizing oil and can be applied after every shower or bath. Use only a small amount and rub over skin after it is dried. Use as a hair moisturizer by applying a small amount to hair while wet. Solid and liquid soap, shampoo, conditioner, make-up, lotions and creams can all be made with a hemp oil base to replace petroleum products.



Cooking

Hemp oil can be used in almost all cooking applications, though it is not suitable for high-heat cooking. It gives a slightly nutty flavor to foods. It is perfect for a salad oil and in lower temperature cooking, and can be included in baking in place of olive or vegetable oil. Use as you would use any other liquid vegetable oil.



Fuel

Hemp oil can be processed to be used as biodiesel in the same manner as all other vegetable oils. Henry Ford used hemp oil to fuel the first cars. Hemp oil can replace all petroleum fuels and oils with a safe, non-toxic oil that does not harm the environment. Biodiesel has a lower freezing point and is already in use in Canada during the winter months as a diesel fuel additive to prevent the fuel from gelling at low temperatures.



Plastics

All forms of plastic can be made with hemp oil instead of petroleum. During decomposition, the plastics would not release harmful chemicals into the environment. Plastics made with hemp oil would not require any petroleum products and would reduce our use of a non-renewable resource for disposable products.



Paints

Until 1937 hemp was the base oil in all paints. Paints made with hemp oil would not cause environmental harm when poured down the drain and would have lower emissions than current petroleum-based paints. In addition, reducing the use of petroleum-based products reduces the use of non-renewable petroleum resources.

Johnny - posted on 07/11/2010

Well, since we don't use oil or gas to heat our home, we probably won't be freezing to death if it is shut off suddenly. But it would be awfully inconvenient and painful for all of us. Oil doesn't just fuel our cars & heat our home, it exists in its by-products in thousands of useful products. Even if we manage to convert to renewable energy sources, which we absolutely must start to do very seriously right away, there are products that will require oil that the modern world can not really live without. All of that wire & cable used to hook up your home to your power sources, telephones, and televisions, that contains oil by-products. If we are willing to completely give up all modern convenience, we would likely live, survive, and perhaps thrive without oil. But that seems unlikely. What we need to do is find creative ways for the entire globe to reduce its demand for oil.

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

I'm not very far north. But I'm pretty sure I'd be okay with the trees in my yard if necessary.

If you can't live in the cold without oil I'm not sure how I ever come into existence. with the family moving from ireland, cold, to canada, cold before they settled here for whatever godforsaken reason.

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

My Grandparents were farmers and lived just fine without oil. Half my family is Mennonite and they are very resourceful people. I've been to my family homestead which was in use until the late '70's, no oil related amenities to be found.

Gertie - posted on 07/11/2010

Oh hell...oil isn't killing you. Nothing but paranoid delusions. In fact, most of us probably wouldn't even be here if it weren't for oil. Especially you northerners...you're grandparents wouldn've frozen to death if it weren't for our creature comforts that oil has provided us with.

Ridiculous.

Jenny - posted on 07/11/2010

It is quite obvious for the sake of the planet, Conservatives must not be allowed back in the oval office. They value money more than our lives. Unacceptable.

Gertie - posted on 07/11/2010

PS...I'm more and more impressed with Bobby Jindal through this whole ordeal. I cannot wait for him to run, be it 2012 (not likely) or beyond.

Dream ticket for 2016 or 2020: Christie/Jindal or Jindal/Christie....music to my ears :)

Gertie - posted on 07/11/2010

To answer your question, Jenn...if gas prices are high at that point in time...you can bet that drill baby drill will be a campaign slogan. I still think it should be. It's not like catastrophic accidents like this happen every day. For a politician to cling to this as a reason to stop drilling is ridiculous and only serves to keep the public in a constant state of panic.

It's not like there isn't oil to drill...it's not like we HAVE to drill thousands of feet down into the deep to extract oil. There are other places we can get oil from, but the gov't has broken lease contracts and put restrictions on where much of the oil is produced.

Just because one catastrohpe happens, does not mean we should close up shop and stop driling. That would be economic suicide. How often does something like this happen? On this grand of a scale? It's few and far between...what we should do is focus on contingency plans to stop/clean up/fix oil spills rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water as this pres is currently doing.

The Deep Water Horizon spill did not have to be this bad. Had it been dealt with properly from the first explosion, we would not be in this current situation. It's been botched from the get go, but that doesn't mean we should stop drilling for oil. We need to find ways to circumvent the bureaucracy when a spill does happen. There needs to be a specific chain of command with clear cut orders.

LaCi - posted on 07/11/2010

My only issue with the criticism of obama in regard to the oil spill is people pretending it's just Obama.

The issues with the oil skimmers was the fault of regulations from the EPA, to me it's reminiscent of the criticism of bush during katrina, which IMO was ridiculous. I have yet to see what one thing bush controlled during katrina that was worthy of such criticism, same goes with Obama now. It's the entire government, not just a single person. Just like BP's fuck up was a multilevel failure, not just tony haywards failure.

I think it's natural to want to have that single person to place blame on, and it's easier for people to accept one person's screwup rather than the mistakes of an entire political body.

There's also criticism of obama vacationing during th eoil spill, which I also think is petty. He wen't to chicago for memorial day weekend, he went to maine for a weekend, and he went to pay respects-on a weekend trip- to miners killed in an explosion on the first "vacation".

Here is a serious question though, I do genuinely want to know what it is that the critics of Obama's behavior during the oil spill expect? I mean, things that depends solely on obama

~Jennifer - posted on 07/11/2010

I'm guessing that "drill, baby, drill" isn't going to be 2012's campaign slogan, huh?

=)