Pre tribulation Rapture

Sarah - posted on 09/01/2010 ( 50 moms have responded )

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okay so i don't believe there will be a pre tribulation rapture...It says Jesus will return at the last trumpet. A lot of people do believe in it though and there is not one Bible verse to support it...so anybody think they can disprove it?

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LaCi - posted on 09/03/2010

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This is a board for debating moms, specifically political debating moms. I mean, I know christians have a tendency to believe that religion and politics are one and the same. But they aren't. Just saying.

Tanya - posted on 09/02/2010

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The Rapture—A Popular but False Doctrine!

The rapture, often called "the blessed hope," is sadly more hoax than hope, even though the man who started it had no intention of deceiving anyone. You need to know what the Bible actually says!

by Cecil E. Maranville

The rapture is widely taught and believed in Christianity today. Popular books and movies spin themes around this doctrine that essentially teaches Christ will come back twice, first coming only into the atmosphere to snatch believers away to heaven for several years; then actually returning to set foot on the earth.

We live in a time when most are content to get their knowledge of religion secondhand, preferably through dramatic presentations, including stage, screen and novels.

But you cannot afford to neglect your personal responsibility to prove the truth!

Those willing to take a careful look at the Bible will see that the rapture theory doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of God's Word.

The rapture was popularized in the 1970s by Hal Lindsey's writings (The Late Great Planet Earth, etc.) and more recently by Jim Jenkins and Tim LaHaye in their Left Behind fictional books and films. But where did the idea of the rapture originate?

The origin of the rapture theory

Credit for its origin generally goes to John Nelson Darby, a 19th-century theologian.
http://www.wnponline.org/wnp/wnp0809/rap...

The word anti-christ was never mention in the bible!

Author

One day in about the year 95 A.D., a man named John had a vision from heaven. The book of Revelation is John's record of that vision. John was a Christian leader of Jewish origin who was in exile on the Roman prison island of Patmos. We don't know why John was exiled to Patmos, but it may have been for refusing to worship the Roman emperor Domitian, who had declared himself a god. Tradition says John the apostle (Mark 3:14-19) was the author of both Revelation and the Gospel of John, but that is not certain.


Literary Form

The book of Revelation (also called The Revelation of John or The Revelation of St. John the Divine) is an example of "apocalyptic" writing - a form that delivers a message using symbols, images and numbers. Parts of the Old Testament, particularly in the book of Daniel, are also apocalyptic.

Apocalyptic writing is characteristic of times of persecution. Some of the symbols and images in Revelation equate the Roman emperor with Satan and depict the Roman Empire as the ultimate evil. However, there was no freedom of speech in the Roman Empire, so the only way to deliver such a message was in a kind of code.

Revelation is also a prophecy (Revelation 1:1-3). We often think of prophecy as a prediction of the future, but the original Greek word, propheteia, means "speaking the mind of God." A prophecy may predict the future, or it may not (Matthew 26:65-68, 1 Timothy 4:14, Revelation 19:10, 22:7).

Revelation is also known as The Apocalypse from its original Greek title. The word "apocalypse" has come to be associated with cataclysmic disaster, judgment day or the end of the world. However, its true meaning is an unveiling or revelation of things known only to God.
http://www.twopaths.com/faq_Revelation.h...

Doctrinal history

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the American Puritan father and son Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on the earth and then the millennium.[13][14] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus' Second Coming. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture was articulated by Baptist Morgan Edwards in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia.[15]
Although not using the term rapture, the idea was more fully developed by Scottish minister, Edward Irving (1792–1834). In 1825[16] Irving directed his attention to the study of prophecy and eventually accepted the one-man Antichrist idea of James Henthorn Todd, Samuel Roffey Maitland, Robert Bellarmine, and Francisco Ribera, yet he went a step further. Irving began to teach the idea of a two-phase return of Christ, the first phase being a secret rapture prior to the rise of the Antichrist. According to Irving, “There are three gatherings: – First, of the first-fruits of the harvest, the wise virgins who follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth; next, the abundant harvest gathered afterwards by God; and lastly, the assembling of the wicked for punishment.”[17] (Where Irving got this idea is a matter of much dispute.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

There is no rapture. For centuries christians did not believe in one. Some guy made it up one day.

Johnny - posted on 09/03/2010

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Evolution is a scientific theory. It allows for new data and evidence to constantly change the parameters of the theory. If tomorrow there was strong evidence to suggest that all life had actually began on earth 6000 years ago, the theory would have to change to accommodate that new information. Science requires evidence to prove it's theories. And evidence is always changing and developing. From your posts I'm fairly certain you do not really understand the concept of science and the concept of religion.

Or the definition of communist for that matter.

Krista - posted on 09/03/2010

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Carol, i can discuss this wherever the heck i want to...unless this a communist group??? You spread your religion everywhere so give people the freedom of speech. No offense

The fact that you would even use the word "communist" to apply to a freaking internet chat forum shows that you don't even know what the damn word MEANS, and you just like throwing it around because you think it's one of the worst insults you can levy at someone.

And the ladies have a point. If all you want to talk about is religion, there ARE groups for that. And it has nothing to do with the fact that many people here are athiest. If you came on here and started thread after thread about your kid's toilet-training issues, it would be suggested that there are other forums better suited for that particular topic.

Iris - posted on 09/02/2010

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Isn't there a community called "Christian moms" somewhere around here? I think you got lost Sarah...

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Katherine - posted on 09/06/2010

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I say a little more politics, a little less religion. For right now anyways. This is POLITICAL Debating Moms. I agree we should be allowed to post and debate on what we want, but lately there have been an exorbitant amount of posts on religion. Frankly it's insidious and I'd like to get back on topic :)

Dana - posted on 09/05/2010

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Alright, ladies, stay on topic if you have nothing nice to say or nothing to add to this conversation. Move on. Thanks ~ Dana~ PDM Moderator

Pamela - posted on 09/05/2010

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We could have this conversation over on Christian mommies. I'm sure it would be a rousing debate. Why don't you start a thread over there, Sarah?

Pamela - posted on 09/04/2010

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This is politically debating moms right? I love to discuss religion but...well okay, I did start a conversation about science & genesis so I suppose I can't complain too much.

Krista - posted on 09/03/2010

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Evolution is a religion? Seriously? By those standards, quantum physics is a religion. The theory of relativity is a religion.

Be serious, please.

Sarah - posted on 09/03/2010

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well, its a part of my country....they take christianity out of everything heck even off of our money?? Whats up with that ....Oh and Evolution is a religion and it is taught every day to your kids at school so what you said is a contridiction

Johnny - posted on 09/03/2010

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And actually Sarah, in MY country religion is not part of politics. I do not have much idea of the religious affiliations of any of my leaders. Politics and religion are separate issues. One is public, the other is personal.

Johnny - posted on 09/03/2010

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politics noun
ˈpɒl.ɪ.tɪks//ˈpɑː.lə-/ n [U]

the activities of the government, members of law-making organizations or people who try to influence the way a country is governed
Joe is very active in left-wing politics.

the job of holding a position of power in the government
The group is campaigning to get more women into politics.
He is planning to retire from politics next year.

the study of the ways in which a country is governed
She read politics at Leicester University.
(Definition of politics noun from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

Just for clarification for those of you confused between politics and religion, which clearly some are. If you look at the top of the page, you will see the title of this debating group is 'Political Debating Moms'. Political usually pertains to politics as defined above.

Dana - posted on 09/03/2010

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That's the problem with you Republicans you always think that politics and religion go hand in hand. It's ridiculous. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with keeping this a POLITICAL COMMUNITY. Take your religious threads to other debate communities, we would be happy to debate you there on this non-sense.

And because we don't want to hear your extremist theories, doesn't mean we all hate God and are communists.

LaCi - posted on 09/03/2010

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Why do people throw "communism" around all the while apparently having no idea what communism actually is? there's a politics question for you.

Sarah - posted on 09/03/2010

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Besides, politics is filled with religion as you call it. So whats your point? Doesn't even our president mention religion? yes, he does lol

[deleted account]

I thought PDM stood for POLITICAL DEBATING MOMS? I'm sorry, perhaps I'm in the wrong place?

What religion is Carol "spreading"? Her lack of religion?

Sarah - posted on 09/03/2010

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Carol, i can discuss this wherever the heck i want to...unless this a communist group??? You spread your religion everywhere so give people the freedom of speech. No offense

Iris - posted on 09/03/2010

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Why is it that if you say that you don't believe that god exists, people always assume that you are a hater? Would you waste your time and energy in hating "The monster under your bed"?
I just think that discussion like this one would get more replies and reactions on a Christian forum than over here and I don't see what it has to do with politics.

Johnny - posted on 09/03/2010

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Sigh, surprisingly Sarah, there are actually quite a few Christians in this group, on both sides of the aisle. But they discuss religious issues in religious or general forums and political issues here. Do you understand?

Isobel - posted on 09/03/2010

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We could start an atheist forum...but there would really be nothing to talk about hahahahahaha

LaCi - posted on 09/03/2010

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You can't hate something you don't believe in. It's like saying you hate unicorns.

Johnny - posted on 09/03/2010

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Unless the rapture is somehow a political issue, which I know some extremists consider it to be as they think Obama is the antichrist, it really should be discussed & debated on a board for general debating topics, like debating moms. I was really hoping we'd get back to debating ACTUAL politics at some point. Conspiracy & wild theories are fun and all, but most of us are here for real politics.

Isobel - posted on 09/03/2010

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yup...I have to agree, religion and politics are not the same thing. Have you tried Parenting Debates and Hot Topics?

Sarah - posted on 09/03/2010

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Iris, this is for debating moms, not just for non christian moms. If i want to debate on a subject of christianity i can.

Johnny - posted on 09/02/2010

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By the way, who is this "enemy" that Jesus is supposed to be destroying? I don't remember him having an enemy in the bible? So confused.

~Jennifer - posted on 09/02/2010

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This reminds me pf a bumper sticker I used to have.....it said , " Come the rapture, can I have your house and your car?"

Johnny - posted on 09/02/2010

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You guys have fun with all that. I'll stick to hanging out here with my hubby, kid, cats, and tending my garden. This rapture thing doesn't really appeal to me.

Can anyone disprove to me that there aren't little fairies that fly among us sharing secrets in our ears? That was in the last book I read. I believe it, does anybody think that they can disprove it?

[deleted account]

!st we are Raptured, 2nd there is 7 yrs of tribulation, 3rd Jesus & all the saints (us) comes back to destroy the enemy, 4th there is the Millennium (1000 yrs on earth).

[deleted account]

That's talking about the SECOND coming.... 1st Jesus comes to Rapture the church, He does not actually set foot on the earth, we meet him in the sky. The 2nd coming is when He does set foot on the earth & destroys the enemy.

Krista - posted on 09/02/2010

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Tell you what -- you ladies pay me $5000 each, and I'll take care of your plants and your pets after you've been raptured up to Jesus. :)

Sarah - posted on 09/02/2010

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The Bible says that we will not be raptured till after the anti christ has been revealed...that there will be tribulation of christians after the anti christ has been revealed and then Jesus comes back Read 2 thessolonians 2: 1-4 it plainly says that it won't be till after the son of predition has been revealed

Sarah - posted on 09/02/2010

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Read Matthew 24:29, 1 thessolonians 4: 16-17, 11 Thessolonians 2:1-4, Mark 13:24-27 Revelation1:7

Isobel - posted on 09/02/2010

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"I know it's real too"??? nobody else here does...who are you agreeing with?

[deleted account]

I know it's real too.... 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Jesus' coming to receive Christians to himself is the subject of Paul's words in 1 Thess. 4:13-18. Known to Christians as the Rapture of the church. Paul describes an event by which Jesus' followers will be gathered to Him 7 years prior to His physical return to earth to establish His millennial kingdom.

http://www.davidjeremiah.org/site/

Lots of information on his website.. I've read A LOT of his books. He is a great pastor..

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