Stem Cell Research

Rosie - posted on 01/22/2010

i think it is definitely beneficial. i don't even have a problem with them using aborted fetuses. they are already aborted, so why not use them for finding cures to these horrible diseases.

i know that at the first hospital i gave birth at they asked when i was pregnant if i would consider donating some cord blood, i said yes, and as soon as he was born someone was in there taking blood out of his cord. they didn't even ask at the last hospital my son was born. now i have no clue the difference between cord blood and cells from embryos, but i wish the last hospital would've asked (i forgot about it, being a 7 year difference in time) so we can make more progress with this.

Kelley - posted on 12/23/2009

Quoting Joy "the historian":

IF YOU HAD READ MY COMMENTS CLEARLY...then you would have read that I was referring to connecting ABORTION WITH STEM CELL RESEARCH. Not all stem cell research and most of the proposed laws involve the use of Aborted fetuses but people TEND TO ALWAYS assume because of the pro-life and pro-choice arguements that the two always go hand in hand and that was NOT the case in this particular discussion that Amie had posted. Since she clearly was proposing and discussing stem research that is based off of laws that specifically set guidelines against the use of aborted fetuses.

The discussion Amie posted was about the current laws and guidelines in Canada that obviously state ethical and moral guidelines where Aborted fetuses are not used in stem cell research. That was what I was referring to, but if we want to get deep into the arguement over the use of aborted fetuses, then I will to go there...I do think because there is such a huge moral flip out from pro-lifers that it would be best to set federal guidelines and laws and research that mirrors Canada's in which aborted fetuses are not used for reseach. Therefore we can actually do some indepth research my putting more funding, time, and energy into into instead of spending our time, funding, and energy on setting up barriers because of the arguements over moral ideals.

However, personally I do think that abortion will never cease to exist and therefore I have no objections with using aborted fetuses for stem cell research. However, It should be up to the individual to make that choice of donation...I said DONATION not a fee for services. Just as I have personally made the choice to donate all my vitals organs when my body no longer ceases to operate functionally enough to keep me alive, Just as I had made the decision that if something horrible had happened during my pregancies and my babies passed that I wanted to donate their organs and stem cells for research. What greater gift that to give a lost life to save a life.

I also personally do not agree with the idea that life begins at conception so I have different views on the use of embryonic stell cell research but like I said I understand the moral and ethical arguement,but I think it is an individuals right to decide if they want to donate embryos or their aborted fetus, but yes there should be guidelines set and people SHOULD NOT ASSUME that when the quesiton of stem cell research comes up that those who are for it are automatically championing abortion as a means for viable research.

After pursuing the info (which I'm so so grateful for) I can't begin to tell you how improtant these kind of debate questions are to me. I've shared this privately but I will share it openly. I get fustrated with arguments that become (I'm right and your wrong' - on either side) obviously I have beliefs I hold as right, and testing them doesn't upset me, if they can't stand the test then there's nothing to stand on.

I sadly do not think abortion will stop either.... but what really, really intrigued me about this research and so many studies, is that how much of it is a 'Big Money' issue. especially when I learned that basically when the (IPC) cells were used it was less costly and sepcific to the person in need of cure, and the body rejection factor being eliminated. Whereas with the ESC research the drug companies could produce this (non-person specific) and turn it into big profit!  'Very eye opening', and again bringing into it - poloticians/& lobbiest, who have $'s  and agendas at stake.

so again, once they chewed issues up and spread fears, or lacking/missing info. What's left?

and who is benefitting?

By the way I think I have some info. on life beginning an how the human cells development differs (I found it intriguing) but amybe in another thread....After christmas.

Amie - posted on 12/23/2009

Kelley I don't have time right now to go through all of those links. It's way to close to Christmas and I'm jumping on here and there as I can.

However I still think your fears are unfounded. Regardless of what you posted. I do know they use adult stem cells in the research. I remember reading somewhere on why embryonic stem cells are a better one to use. It had something to do with they had not formed into any kind of cell as of yet but adult ones had already become (even partly) formed into whichever organ, tissue, etc. that they were taken from. I need to look it up again though and I'll do that when I have more time to sit and read through everything I have.

The skin cell one shows promise IF they can nail it down. It has to do with stripping the cells down to their basic form to "create" a stem cell. Which would be a big advancement but I still see no reason not to use donated embryo's or fetuses (if they ever allowed it) in the research. There is no monetary gain, it is something done with consent given by the donors. Not once but twice. I've already stated all of this though.

JL - posted on 12/23/2009

IF YOU HAD READ MY COMMENTS CLEARLY...then you would have read that I was referring to connecting ABORTION WITH STEM CELL RESEARCH. Not all stem cell research and most of the proposed laws involve the use of Aborted fetuses but people TEND TO ALWAYS assume because of the pro-life and pro-choice arguements that the two always go hand in hand and that was NOT the case in this particular discussion that Amie had posted. Since she clearly was proposing and discussing stem research that is based off of laws that specifically set guidelines against the use of aborted fetuses.



The discussion Amie posted was about the current laws and guidelines in Canada that obviously state ethical and moral guidelines where Aborted fetuses are not used in stem cell research. That was what I was referring to, but if we want to get deep into the arguement over the use of aborted fetuses, then I will to go there...I do think because there is such a huge moral flip out from pro-lifers that it would be best to set federal guidelines and laws and research that mirrors Canada's in which aborted fetuses are not used for reseach. Therefore we can actually do some indepth research my putting more funding, time, and energy into into instead of spending our time, funding, and energy on setting up barriers because of the arguements over moral ideals.



However, personally I do think that abortion will never cease to exist and therefore I have no objections with using aborted fetuses for stem cell research. However, It should be up to the individual to make that choice of donation...I said DONATION not a fee for services. Just as I have personally made the choice to donate all my vitals organs when my body no longer ceases to operate functionally enough to keep me alive, Just as I had made the decision that if something horrible had happened during my pregancies and my babies passed that I wanted to donate their organs and stem cells for research. What greater gift that to give a lost life to save a life.



I also personally do not agree with the idea that life begins at conception so I have different views on the use of embryonic stell cell research but like I said I understand the moral and ethical arguement,but I think it is an individuals right to decide if they want to donate embryos or their aborted fetus, but yes there should be guidelines set and people SHOULD NOT ASSUME that when the quesiton of stem cell research comes up that those who are for it are automatically championing abortion as a means for viable research.

Kelley - posted on 12/23/2009

Just to clarify, NO to ESC (embryo stem cell) but "YES" to IPS (induce pluripotent stem cell) research!

Kelley - posted on 12/22/2009

Quoting Amie:

Ok I'm not yelling but I am going to put this in all caps so no one gets confused...

RESEARCHERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE ABORTED FETUSES.

I hope that clears that up. =) However I agree with Alisa on this matter too. If the choice has already been made by the prospective mother/parents to abort. It IS going to be done no matter what anyone else has to say. I do not see why it would be a bad thing to donate. There is NO monetary gain from such a venture. Abortion statistics would not dramatically rise because it became a viable option to allow aborted fetuses to be used. Even if only parts of that abortion could be used as a viable option in the research I still think it would be a good idea so long as consent is still needed as it is in embryo donation.

Now Kelley I think I understood what you were trying to say. I'm going to go over what I got out of it just in case it was wrong and then make my own comments.

You fear that people are going to start producing and donating embryo's just to further research.
You fear that people will not adopt out their embryo's and instead donate them to research.
However I am totally and completely confused on your last paragraph. I've tried reading it a few times but all I'm getting is that if parents had the option for organ donation that they be allowed that. However in stem cell research since there is no living breathing person forming in this process it is not a real option. BUT if it ever does get far enough long that it does cure diseases and help repair tissues it would be something available to all, not just whoever donated. Again, I was completely confused by your last paragraph so please clarify if I completely missed the mark on what you were trying to say.

This train of thought  completely disreguard it:

{Sooo if I as a parents would have 20 or so embyros (babies/children) that I'm running out of time on, because in most cases the frozen/preservative storage is costly and viability expires, then if it could be legislated as such parental rights, when a parent loses a child they can chose organ donation in the case of a dependant, I think that might even help some of those parents have at least some giult resolution. I could see an acceptable resolution.}

After the studies that I've seen I think this relates to another topic on a different thread. Who's really lobbying for this?  there's alot of money at stake, abortion docs, drug  companies, and yes abortion die-hards.  here are some of the ferences:

In response to the announcement Democrat Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa said ,"Our top researchers recognize that this new development does not mean that we should discontinue studying embryonic stem cells. Scientists may yet find that embryonic stem cells are more powerful."

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Junying Yu, Kejin Hu, Kim Smuga-Otto, Shulan Tian, Ron Stewart, Igor I. Slukvin and James A. Thomson. Human Induced Pluripotent Stem Cells Free of Vector and Transgene Sequences. .

As for the fears I got from your post I do not see why it is anyone's business if a woman, man or a couple decide to donate their eggs, sperm or embryo's to research. It is their bodies to do with as they wish, it is a choice they make of themselves. Much the same way that millions of people decide to donate certain parts of their bodies while they are still living or have it willed after wards for it to go up for donation to those who need it. My mother has it in her will to donate her entire body to science when she passes. She wants a memorial held between family and close friends, not a grave or urn to keep her ashes in.

The fear that people will all of a sudden start donating their left over embryo's to science instead of other prospective parents I think is another moot point. There will always be people who wish to do this as well. For whatever their reasons. Just as their are already people who donate their eggs or sperms or full on embryo's to couples who need them because they can not produce them themselves.

While I can understand those fears I do not think they are warranted.

I think once you've looked at these studies you might rethink all things considered.

My fears are more than verrified and sadly brought to light something alot more troubling, we're talking about 'Big Bucks'  in exchange for blood on our hands....innocent blood.

Kelley - posted on 12/22/2009

Thank you Joy You absolutely correct, "there's nothing like the pot calling the kettle black, huh?" Sad to say I doubt you will use any critical thinking or further reseach yourself because you already have the answers....



But here are some scientific facts:



Embryonic stem cell research no longer necessary?

Three separate groups of researchers showed recently that normal skin cells can be reprogrammed to an embryonic state in mice.4 The fact that these iPS cells were pluripotent was proved by producing fetuses derived entirely from these transformed skin cells. Just five months after the mouse study was published, the feat was repeated by two separate laboratories using human skin cells.5 The ability to produce embryonic stem cell-like lines from individual patients removes the possibility of tissues rejection and avoids the high costs and moral problems associated with cloned embryos. Dr. Shinya Yamanaka, one of the study leaders later commented, "When I saw the embryo, I suddenly realized there was such a small difference between it and my daughters... I thought, we can’t keep destroying embryos for our research. There must be another way." The moral problem of destroying a human embryo encouraged Dr. Yamanaka to pursue a more ethical way to generate human stem cell lines. See the full report.



Conclusion:

Induction of pluripotency to produce embryonic-like stem cells is the hot topic in stem cell research. The fact that human iPS cells have been produced in many different laboratories after the initial animal studies shows that the technique is robust and easily reproducible. In contrast, the competing technique, human somatic cell nuclear transfer (cloning), has never been transferred from animal studies to human application, despite years of attempts. At this point, it seems pretty certain that the iPS (induce pluriptoent stem cells) technique will soon replace ESC (embryo stem cells)as the preferred means of generating human stem cell lines. However, the disadvantage of iPS cells is that the cell lines produced would be patient specific (only useful for the intended patient), whereas the establishment of ESC lines allows biotech companies to patent the lines in order to make lots of money.





Now Me saying:

"With further study I have absolutely no-doubt that NO, NO, NO, stem cell reasearch....

and Amy is correct Aborted (killing human babies first) is unacceptable in this process. These petri-dish concieved children must be 5 to 14 days old in cells development and then terminated to have the appropriate cells ...."



Article quote: 'Stem cells that are pluripotent are capable of forming virtually all of the possible tissue types found in human beings.'



ME saying:

"So they do not use dead babies, they harvest human babies for the purpose of killing them, specifically from 5 to 14 days in human fetal development."

JL - posted on 12/22/2009

Amie, people have been brainwashed into automatically linking abortion to stem cell research..it is a sad fact that just shows how inept some people are when it come to actually researching the facts and using critical thinking skills. It is sad because the ignorance and fear that comes from those spewing as well as those believing in the misinformation that is put our there only prevent great medical successes from being made...medical successes that families like April and mine are really hoping, wishing and championing for.



My mom has Lupus and she gets worse each year. Not only is she physcially deteriorating but she is also mentally deteriorating which puts her in a constant state of frustration and depression. She feels trapped in a body she cannot control. She has lost hearing completely in one ear and it looks like the other ear as well. So in her mid 50's she has now got to start learning alternative ways to communicate as well as the rest of us who are in the family. She always feels like she is on the outside because she cannot understand the conversations going on around her.Then on top of that she has no balance and must walk with a cane but the constant dizziness makes even that too difficult. She is always exhausted and can barely stand up most of the time. She has trouble sleeping and feels like she is going crazy. She is a very indepedent women who now has to rely on other people to drive her places. She is in constant pain and has to take high levels of pain medications every day just so she can function on the basic level. She feels like her life has been ripped away from her like she is just a bystander in it. Her basic functioning skills go each day and she wishes their was more that can be done. The doctors are exhausting every medication and avenue they can but there is nothing else they can do but wait for things like stem cell research to become more widely accepted across the US so more research can be done so diseases like Lupus can be cured.



My best freind has lost her aunt, mother, and younger brother to ALS. She hopes one day that stem cell research finds a cure because she worries that her kids will one day be diagnosed with disease and all she will be able to do is watch them die painfully as she did with her aunt, mother and younger brother.



I have a cousin who is only 13 years old and has developed a rare disorder that has attacked her muscles and nervous system. She is unable to speak clearly and eat properly because the left side of her face operates as if she has had a stroke. She has been put on rounds of meds that cancer patients use. She goes to specialists twice a month trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with her and how thye can the treat it so she can have a normal teenage life. All she wants is to be a normal teen.



I have seen too many people in my life battle with diseases that have taken their lives away from them or their ability to function away from them. YES YES YES TO STEM CELL RESEARCH.

Amie - posted on 12/22/2009

Ok I'm not yelling but I am going to put this in all caps so no one gets confused...



RESEARCHERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE ABORTED FETUSES.



I hope that clears that up. =) However I agree with Alisa on this matter too. If the choice has already been made by the prospective mother/parents to abort. It IS going to be done no matter what anyone else has to say. I do not see why it would be a bad thing to donate. There is NO monetary gain from such a venture. Abortion statistics would not dramatically rise because it became a viable option to allow aborted fetuses to be used. Even if only parts of that abortion could be used as a viable option in the research I still think it would be a good idea so long as consent is still needed as it is in embryo donation.



Now Kelley I think I understood what you were trying to say. I'm going to go over what I got out of it just in case it was wrong and then make my own comments.



You fear that people are going to start producing and donating embryo's just to further research.

You fear that people will not adopt out their embryo's and instead donate them to research.

However I am totally and completely confused on your last paragraph. I've tried reading it a few times but all I'm getting is that if parents had the option for organ donation that they be allowed that. However in stem cell research since there is no living breathing person forming in this process it is not a real option. BUT if it ever does get far enough long that it does cure diseases and help repair tissues it would be something available to all, not just whoever donated. Again, I was completely confused by your last paragraph so please clarify if I completely missed the mark on what you were trying to say.



As for the fears I got from your post I do not see why it is anyone's business if a woman, man or a couple decide to donate their eggs, sperm or embryo's to research. It is their bodies to do with as they wish, it is a choice they make of themselves. Much the same way that millions of people decide to donate certain parts of their bodies while they are still living or have it willed after wards for it to go up for donation to those who need it. My mother has it in her will to donate her entire body to science when she passes. She wants a memorial held between family and close friends, not a grave or urn to keep her ashes in.



The fear that people will all of a sudden start donating their left over embryo's to science instead of other prospective parents I think is another moot point. There will always be people who wish to do this as well. For whatever their reasons. Just as their are already people who donate their eggs or sperms or full on embryo's to couples who need them because they can not produce them themselves.



While I can understand those fears I do not think they are warranted.

Alisa - posted on 12/22/2009

TOTALLY FOR IT!!!! Our family is filled with Alzheimer's, dementia, cancer, arthritis, sarcoidosis, heart disease, and the list goes on. I would love to find a cure for any and all of these things as quickly as possible. It is a medical necessity that we continue with stem cell research. And as for using aborted fetuses, I'm all for that as well. If they are being aborted anyway, why not use their cells to help cure diseases for people who are actually living! I'm sorry if you disagree, but an already aborted fetus, should NOT have rights over mine. I'm an actual LIVE PERSON!!! How is it that it's okay for me to die of a horrible disease, but it's not okay to use the cells of an already aborted fetus to help cure my disease? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Research, research, research!!!!!!!!

Kelley - posted on 12/22/2009

Quoting Amie:

Kelley I don't understand what you mean about producing a human just to kill them? That is not the case in any stem cell research I've looked into.

Left over embryo's are just that, left over. When doing IVF most patients and their doctors take several eggs at once to fertilize, in the hopes that one of them will stick when the embryo's are transferred to the uterus. When one finally does, there are generally some left over. There are also some generally left over because they were not mature enough to implant. Since it is not an easy process several eggs are taken at one time (from what I understand). Since no one can see into the future some are left over with more eggs than others. Then what do you do with those left over embryos? (For the ones who are not going to use them again) Do you just let them sit and become non-viable? Or do you donate them to stem cell research in hopes of saving many lives? I'd rather donate personally.

Such a sticky subject. I actually have a dear friend who had to face this very same delima. they had taken 25 or 30 eggs for fertilization, and sucsessfully had triplets and all the additions their family could handle. I do think that at he moment of conception completes a person human life print (dna it set). I know that embryo adoption is a viable optoin and it's been done sucsessfully. My bigger concern is that stem cell research is a justification for abortion or to further that agenda, How often do you hear about placental stem cell research? or Embryo adoption? my guess is not very much, because it doesn't fit the furthering of abortion proponents???

I also know that in the case of death I would want to give myself as a chance for some one else the chance to live life fully. So i hope embyro research never becomes a case where the medical/research community would call for donors to create a life for sacrifice, I think the legislations proposed open this door.

Sooo if I as a parents would have 20 or so embyros (babies/children) that I'm running out of time on, because in most cases the frozen/preservative storage is costly and viability expires, then if it could be legislated as such parental rights, when a parent loses a child they can chose organ donation in the case of a dependant, I think that might even help some of those parents have at least some giult resolution. I could see an acceptable resolution.

Amie - posted on 12/22/2009

Kelley I don't understand what you mean about producing a human just to kill them? That is not the case in any stem cell research I've looked into.

Left over embryo's are just that, left over. When doing IVF most patients and their doctors take several eggs at once to fertilize, in the hopes that one of them will stick when the embryo's are transferred to the uterus. When one finally does, there are generally some left over. There are also some generally left over because they were not mature enough to implant. Since it is not an easy process several eggs are taken at one time (from what I understand). Since no one can see into the future some are left over with more eggs than others. Then what do you do with those left over embryos? (For the ones who are not going to use them again) Do you just let them sit and become non-viable? Or do you donate them to stem cell research in hopes of saving many lives? I'd rather donate personally.

Kelley - posted on 12/21/2009

Why is it o.k. to produce human being to kill them? It is absolutey no different than killing your neighbor/ child/ infant... a human being to use their body parts.

Are you aware that viable stem cells can be harvested just as effectively from embilical and placental research???? this has been a proven scientifically!


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April - posted on 12/21/2009

My father has Parkinson's as well as hydrocephalus. I have markers for the diseases that predispose me to the disease (Parkinson's). I also have a dysfunction of my autonomic nervous system and am in nursing school working to become an NP specializing in HIV disease. If I do contract the disease as young as my father did (41) I won't really live much life. He is now 50 and in a nursing home unable to wipe his own rear sometimes. I have so much I am trying to accomplish and to have someone deny me the potential of living a quality of life longer if I do become unfortunate as my father is, disgusts me. I will be saving and improving lives of HIV patients for Christ's sake. You wouldn't just be improving my life, you might be setting the stage for a cure or much better treatment for such an awful disease that affects more than just the individual who has it. I am trying to squeeze in now as much as I can just in case I am an invalid at 50 like my father. Do I deserve that? Fetuses will be aborted no matter what laws are in place. It will happen in back alleys so these feel good laws that clear your conscience are nothing but hot air. Who's to say they can even use fetal tissue once it has differentiated? From what I can see embryonic cells are the useful ones not fetal cells that have made a heart, brain, etc. An embryo does not think, hear, or have capacity to live outside of the womb at ALL. Why not improve someone's life? Put yourself in somebody else's shoes, how can you demand the moral authority over my life? How many HIV patients have you hugged today or given a reason to take 20+ pills a day, put up with all the side effects, and continue to try to live life instead of just wasting away and dying? Would you even touch them? Do you think they deserve the disease? I'm so sick of this supposed morality that is so one sided and only counts to everyone else instead of the person judging and assuming they have the right answer to every problem in life. If you have all the answers? Why are there still problems. I hear complaints but no solutions, the solutions I do hear cause more problems (such as the last 8 years in politics in the US). Stop telling me what I deserve or what morality dictates to me. If you are so moral, start by calling out those in your own corner who talk the talk but definitely don't walk the walk and don't follow your very own moral standards you try to push on us. Your religion doesn't belong in the political sphere and you cannot speak for Jesus.

Renee - posted on 12/20/2009

I am completely for it! There are so many people in this world with debilitating conditions that cry for stem cell research. It is very promising on so many levels. It could benefit millions of people all over the world. I wish the U.S. were a leader in this type of technology but with their hands tied by the government it's unfortunate, hopefully the current administration will untie the knots!