TARP and the Stimulus Package and Partinsanship and some other stuff....

Jenny - posted on 08/20/2009 ( 34 moms have responded )

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Traci wrote:" Stimulus money was for anything from welfare programs to "make work" projects, much of the money hasn't even been spent yet"



Christa wrote: "TARP was a temporary loan to banks which had to be repaid, the stimulus was just frivolous spending that was WAY TOO MUCH. Now I do believe we needed some stimulus, but 787 billion was WAY TOO MUCH. Actually McCain sponsored a lesser stimulus for around 500 billion and it was never even considered. So if McCain had been in office things would have been drastically different. Mary, I do believe some of the stimulus has been effective, but like you said only 10% has been spent and there has been an improvement, do we really need to waste the other 90% and put us and our children further in debt? The spending is OUT OF CONTROL and it needs to be stopped. "



Ok so now that I understand the difference between the two so I'll focus on the stimulus. If McCain wanted 287 Billion less than Obama did but the majority of the funds are not even spent then what is exactly the issue? Do they have to spend all the funds or is that just the number that is available if it is required down the road? Does it matter how much funds are available if they are not being used?



Personally I think it's time to audit the Federal Reserve. If you want to know where the sneaky underhandedness of the government is occuring that's the place to look first. I have a quote of Bernake's admitting the Fed caused the last Depression (from the Fed's website even) and I'm betting this meltdown was just as engineered.



Keep the people in fear and you can whatever you want. Terrorism, Economy, Killer Bees, SARS, West Nile Virus, Swine Flu. These are all the same thing, scare tactics to keep the population in line. Why is there never a breather? There is always some catostrophic event occuring that could mean the end of things that we know it. I think it's high time to start calling bullshit and throw the bums on the streets. Why are there no suicide bombers in America? How complicated can it really be to blow yourself up in a crowd of people? The media is the first that needs to go, save for independant sources. Any media owned by a corporation cannot be trusted, from Fox to MSNBC to CNN, they are different faces of the same terrible creature.



The next thing that needs to go are politicians, every last one of them. Why do peope vote on parties anyway, shouldn't we vote on issues? Direct Democracy is the way I'd like to see it go. Politicians should not be voting on thier belief systems or how they feel on a certain issue. They are to carry out the will of the constituents and really should not have a personal opinion or party line bias on the matter as they are there as a representative to sign the paperwork and nothing more.



There is this weird thing going on right now that I feel is about to get very violent. The country is being pitted against each other and becoming very distracted from the real issues. Health care reform should not be that complicated. If it was the Republicans trying to pass it, it would be the Democrats freaking out but with less guns lol. Both sides got to go and get back to being people who care about issues. There is no such thing as left or right or red or blue. There are only people and families trying to make their the best they can. Reading the rheotoric on both sides is so very frustrating, I hope progress comes soon and not in the form of a campaign slogan.

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34 Comments

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Brenda - posted on 08/23/2009

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ha ha ha!

Christa - posted on 08/23/2009

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They might say it's my burlap sack and nobody has the right to tell me what to do with it.

Traci - posted on 08/23/2009

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That's pretty funny, Jenny :) ...burlap sacks, lol :)

Jenny - posted on 08/23/2009

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With the media around that will never happen. They have driven people into a frenzy. I think if Obama tried to pass the "drowning puppies is bad" deal there would be shouts that the government needs to say out of our burlap sacks and we have the right to drown all the puppies we want. The right was calling for blood before Obama even took office, he never had a chance from the get go.

Laura - posted on 08/23/2009

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I didn't mean to suggest that the tea parties are bad. It's just yet another example for liberals to point to and say those whacky right wingers, not that I care because I do think the tea parties are important. I just think it would be so much more effective for libs and conservs. to work together on something, show the people in DC. how to do it.

Gina - posted on 08/23/2009

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With the tea parties, Fox news was the only one that talked about them in a positive way. The others took a different spin on it. I don't understand why everyone is so angry about them anyway, aren't all Americans tired of the spending. Our debt is unsustainable, we are going to be slaves to the world if it doesn't stop.

Brenda - posted on 08/21/2009

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You know Sara - it's really interesting that all you can contribute to the forum lately, (it seems) is derogatory comments. Do you not have any real info to add?

Traci - posted on 08/21/2009

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Out of all the things in this thread, THAT is what you decide to respond to?

Sara - posted on 08/21/2009

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Quoting Brenda:

And no, Jenny, Fox News did NOT have anything to do with the grassroots movement other than reporting the news. The American people took up the cause from what they saw and heard.



Thanks...I needed a good laugh today.

Christa - posted on 08/21/2009

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I think all news is biased and as long as you realize that you are able to take the facts from any story and decide for yourself. I think the problem comes when people listen or won't listen to something because of the source. I know there are people who won't listen to a word out of Glenn Becks mouth just because he is a conservative. Just as others won't listen to Matthews or Olbermann. I'll listen to anyone as long as they are speaking with facts. Like the Maddow clip that Brenda posted, I don't normally watch her but she made good points. It's important to open your eyes and think for yourself. Where the media becomes dangerous is when people don't do that and blindly follow. I'm afraid that's what happened in this election primarily among young people. I'm not saying all young people but I feel some just drank the kool aid the liberal media was serving without thinking for themselves.

Traci - posted on 08/21/2009

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Did you all see that MSNBC is selling Obama tee shirts and mugs and stuff in their stores and online? LOL THAT is hilarious! I don't remember Fox ever selling Bush tees and memoribilia...and I sure as hell don't remember MSNBC selling Bush gear, either! That'll be the day, eh?

Jenny - posted on 08/21/2009

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Fox absolutely were involved in setting up the Tea Parties, they promoted the bejeesus out them. Makes for great soundbites at the rallies and it was done completely out of ratings and corporate self interest. We all know no media network gives two shits about the actual issues. I'm not saying you personally are brainwashed by Fox or anything like that. I just think they should start advertising themselves as editorial shows and not news.



Christa - you could always have a PIN code or something attached that you register for in person like we do with bank cards. Hell fingerprint ID already exists although admittedly that scares me so I'd opt out. There's bound to be fraud no matter what but I'm sure there's a way to make it as secure as possible. It's at least worth a try.

Brenda - posted on 08/21/2009

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Oh and just so you know, I get my news info from the internet, Fox News, MSNBC, The Wall Journal, The Washington Post, etc. I try to make sure that I'm not biased when I take in information and get a well rounded look. But, most things ring more true when they are coming off Fox News.



But from some of the things I've posted, you can see I get things from both conservative and liberal sources.

Brenda - posted on 08/21/2009

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You're right Christa - hopeful thinking on my part. I just wish they would use their brains to better the country and make things easier instead of trying to dismantle the country.

And no, Jenny, Fox News did NOT have anything to do with the grassroots movement other than reporting the news. The American people took up the cause from what they saw and heard.

Christa - posted on 08/21/2009

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Yeah but what's to prevent someone from doing it under your number. Identity theft is unfortunately very easy. To do the absentee ballots you have to ask for them, they get mailed to your address, then you are prevented from voting any other way, then you have to sign it when you mail it in for it to be counted. I just don't think they could ensure people were who they say they were via the internet. We could have terrorists/foreigners voting to influence what happens here to benefit them. If you tried to vote it would tell you that you already did and by the time you were able to get a hold of sometime to tell them of the fraud the election would be long over. I think there's a solution I'm just not sure what it is. :-)

Jenny - posted on 08/21/2009

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What if they gave you a voting card similar to a passport so your ID would be verified or to your SIN card or birth certificate/citizenship card#?

Christa - posted on 08/21/2009

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Online voting would leave too much room for fraud. American Idol is totally rigged, people use those autodialers etc. I do think they should be able to do a better job though.

Jenny - posted on 08/21/2009

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I don't know if I'd call the Tea Parties grassroots. Fox News had alot to do with them. The tea parties are good though because they allow me to laugh my ass off at all the reporters talking about "tea bagging" with a straight face. It kills me every time.



I bet if they took voting online or at least gave an option to do it online then voter turnout would at least double. Do away with parties completely and vote independant everytime and you'll see it quadruple. Citizens have rightly lost faith in the system.

Brenda - posted on 08/21/2009

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What's wrong with tea parties? It's a demonstration to demand the government be more responsible and accountable to the American people. It isn't astroturf at all. Despite what some liberals may think, the Tea Parties are an authentic grass roots movement to make the American people's voices heard!

But yes, we do need to get the ball rolling. Even if people think it may not be able to be done. You never know until you try. If we could create a movement like no one has ever seen in US history, with both liberals and conservatives, who knows? I think it could be successful.

Any ideas on how to get it going?

I'm calling my reps right now and requesting they do just that.

And Jenny - I can see you point. With the technologies we have, I don't know why we couldn't get 'up to date' with our voting. Heck even American Idol, which is global, can tabulate votes quickly!

Laura - posted on 08/21/2009

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Joy, that last sentence was exhausting and so very true. Glad to see we can all agree, audit the fed. Let's start a new revolution. Instead of tea parties that seem to be right wing extremists, we can get both parties involved in a demand to have the Fed. audited. Wouldn't that be a fine display!

JL - posted on 08/21/2009

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Oh Geez..call the press because I agree with you all on this one...Audit the Fed and I am also tired of politicians on both sides trying to work on bills to reform things knowing damn well that they are all lining their pockets with money from the lobbyist that represents the industries and organizations which are the very source of some of the problems. So I am ALWAYS skeptical about reform bills because after they pass through everyones hands on both sides they are downgraded to be nothing but a protective clause for the damn industries that are screwing us all over and then of course we get to watch the proud politicans declare how they have reformed the system while they retire and go off to their newly appointed positions at the companies in which they were supposibly reforming making millions of dollars now running and lobbying for them. UHHH!

Jenny - posted on 08/20/2009

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Direct Democracy does not work that way. It is done through technology, maybe hook it up to your SIN# as one example. Votes can be tabulated through telephone or internet quite quickly. Discussions can also be done online through boards, video conferencing or arrange meetings in your area for in-person discussion that can filmed and displayed to the other voters. Candidates are not important, policy is, and it is dictated by the people, for the people. Candidates are elected to dot the i's and cross the t's on the laws the people want passed. They have zero say, aside from their vote as a citizen, as to how that policy is formed. I believe when people can see a direct result of how their votes affect them it will create a more proactive population. Not to mention poiliticians in the pocket of corporations would be instantly abolished. I will add in here, human rights are not up for vote by the masses. Any other issue can and should be decided by the people, not politicians. It is a true democratic system.



If you see the disgusting way "sides" are depicted in this day and age, it is easy to see the days of political parties who only serve the parties interests need to be over. The town hall meetings and comparisons of Obama to Hitler are prime examples of this. The media is frothing at the mouth at how they have people acting towards one another. It has turned into the ultimate reality TV show and you're the star. It just feels really dirty to me.

Christa - posted on 08/20/2009

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I agree with the idea, but logistically it would be close to impossible. It would make every election a general election. I don't know about there in Canada but here our general elections are a mess. I think you need the primaries to narrow it down before you get to a general election. However I do think there needs to be a change though I don't know what the answer would be.

Jenny - posted on 08/20/2009

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It means political parties needs to go to actually get anything done in a country. Mine included. I refuse to vote until Direct Democracy is on the ballot. I will not support our broken system by voting for the lesser of two evils.

Traci - posted on 08/20/2009

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:)

Brenda - posted on 08/20/2009

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Uh oh, you know what that means don't you? The world is going to come to the end! lol

Traci - posted on 08/20/2009

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Awww...would you look at that, girls, *tear* we finally can all agree on something...

ME - posted on 08/20/2009

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I've been saying that for at least 2 years...AUDIT THE FED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jenny - posted on 08/20/2009

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If they ever get into the Fed's books, and I doubt they ever will, they will find a shit storm. They really do have absolute power and it ties back with England from the turn of the century. I have som elinks at home about the creation of the fed that are very eye opening. This is where the problem lies, not with blues or reds. Don't you notice how nothnig really ever changes no matter who is in charge? Both sides are puppets for the true colour that matters, green of course. Unfortunately not eco-green.

Gina - posted on 08/20/2009

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I agree 100% with you that the Federal Reserve needs to be audited. I think it was Jim DeMint and Ron Paul tried passing that off so that it could be audited, but was killed in the Senate. I am curious why the Senators wanted to kill that one, maybe they have thier hands in the cookie jar. Also I agree with people needing to vote on issues instead of along party lines.

Jenny - posted on 08/20/2009

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They have had way too much unchecked power for way too long. Ron Paul is on the ball with that one.

Brenda - posted on 08/20/2009

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Lol - I'm all for auditing the Fed - yesterday!

Traci - posted on 08/20/2009

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Amen to auditing the Fed, Jenny!!! I whole heartedly agree with that ;)

Christa - posted on 08/20/2009

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Jenny for once I agree with you! LOL! :-)