The Nation

Traci - posted on 06/08/2009 ( 22 moms have responded )

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Yesterday I was watching Book TV on CSPAN and they had a whole panel discussion hosted by The Nation magazine. There were professors, Barbara Erinreich (sp?), and Bill Fletcher, Jr.



That was some really scary stuff they were saying on there. How capitalism has gotten us were we are, how socialism is wonderful, etc...



Does anybody read that magazine? I was under the impression it was liberal, but by no means socialist! It was all very freightening to me. They were in New York and the audience was clapping at all the "especially spooky" ideas.



I mean, these people saw nothing wrong with nationalizing industries! Isn't that theft? What happened to private property?



I'm not trying to start a fight, but I know many liberals LOVE that magazine...I never realized, exactly, what that had meant....

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JL - posted on 06/12/2009

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With my husband and daughter it is sometimes more about the texture of the veggie.

Traci - posted on 06/11/2009

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I have read before that people have different amounts of tastebuds on their tongues, and depending on the amount, it dictates whether they do or do not like certain foods. For instance, broccoli can be bitter and people with larger numbers of taste buds recognize the bitterness more than other people do, hence their dislike.



I thought that made so much sense to me! My oldest daughter has always loved veggies from the time she was a baby, eating green beans by the handful, green peppers, etc. My son, however, wouldn't eat baby food that was green. I had to feed it along with the fruit or he wouldn't eat it. I even tried it over and over again like they tell you to, but still didn't work. His dislike for veggies is just in him. He drives me nuts when it comes to meals!!! It's a good thing he is so darn cute! ;)



My youngest is a girl and she is a veggie lover like her big sis, YAY!!!

Christa - posted on 06/11/2009

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I'll have to look for that, my daughter won't come near a veggie with a ten foot pole! :-)

JL - posted on 06/11/2009

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I have the book and it has worked in our home. Even my husband who is just as picky as my 6 year old eats the meals I make from the book without any clue that he is eating all those veggies that he so often protests to eating. It is good to use also as a starter for coming up with ways to add processed veggies and fruits to other recipes.

Sara - posted on 06/11/2009

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Have you seen that cookbook "Deceptively Delicious"? I know someone who uses it and bascially, you puree different vegetables and use them in things so you're kids don't even know that they're eating them. I've thought about picking it up, probably wouldn't be bad for me either!

JL - posted on 06/11/2009

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I also have a picky eater. I roast and steam veggies, process them, and then freeze them in small baggies and then add them into sauces and such so that my picky eater is getting veggies without knowing it. I still make regular veggies as well but I know that if she won't eat it them that she is unknowinly getting them in the other food on her plate so that way dinner time is not a battle and she remains healthy. I have to watch out for the glutens with my youngest because they cause digestive problems for him and the gluten free products are not cheap.

Traci - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Joy:

I know where I live in the past few weeks the prices for food products have gone up from 50cents to up to a dollar more and it is starting to hurt my bank account. I buy way fewer organic products but I do have to keep buying some certain products because of my childrens allergies. But just trying to buy fresh fruits and veggies is ridiculous. Is anyone else in the area they live in seeing a substantial rise in prices for groceries within the last few weeks?



Yes!  It is crazy...I used to enjoy going grocery shopping and now I"ve come to dread it!  I make the most of my money as best I can.  I do my main shopping at Super WalMart (they are the cheapest overall), then we go on to Aldi.  WalMart is great because they price match other grocery stores, so sometimes I don't even have to make an extra trip to save money.  I just bring my ads with me and they comp it.  I also am sort of a coupon queen.  Rarely do I save less than 20 dollars with all my coupons-my highest was 45 once, I think. 



 



My husband is a big guy, very muscular and it isn't cheap to feed him!  We spend at least 550 a month in groceries, but that's including cleaning products and health and beauty items.  And I shop at the cheap stores!!!  I can't imagine what I would spend at the average grocery store!  It is nuts!



 



That really stinks you have to be so careful because of allergies-I've been very lucky in that respect.  The worst of my problems is a 4 year old who is severely picky! LOL

Gina - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Joy:

I know where I live in the past few weeks the prices for food products have gone up from 50cents to up to a dollar more and it is starting to hurt my bank account. I buy way fewer organic products but I do have to keep buying some certain products because of my childrens allergies. But just trying to buy fresh fruits and veggies is ridiculous. Is anyone else in the area they live in seeing a substantial rise in prices for groceries within the last few weeks?



I have noticed it where I live. My kids are getting older, and are really starting to eat a lot. So I have to go atleast once a week. I shop a lot at Costco, and I think my grocery bill has gone up about $150 a month. We try to eat healthy, I cook a lot of fish and chicken, and we always have fresh vegetables and fruit for them. I hit the sales at Albertsons every so often, and get a lot of their boxed items, like cereal and snacks for a great price and stock up.



I have to agree that the obesity comes down to personal responsibility with the parents, and the individuals. It really frustrates me when the government thinks they have to step in and control the food we eat. When are people going to take responsibility for their actions.... I just don't understand it. I work out 5-6 days a week, just so I can stay healthy. I have to say that I feel so much better when I do exercise. There is just too many gadgets, and tv's for kids to sit on their butts all day and do nothing, I think that's a big part of the problem.

Christa - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Joy:

I know where I live in the past few weeks the prices for food products have gone up from 50cents to up to a dollar more and it is starting to hurt my bank account. I buy way fewer organic products but I do have to keep buying some certain products because of my childrens allergies. But just trying to buy fresh fruits and veggies is ridiculous. Is anyone else in the area they live in seeing a substantial rise in prices for groceries within the last few weeks?


No I haven't seen it, at least not that I've noticed.  I don't know if you have one of these but we buy all of our Produce at Sunflower Market.  It's much cheaper then the big stores, look around your area and see if you have something similar.  For me, my husband, and my daughter we spend between 15-20 on produce and that lasts us all week.  We buy whats on sale though sometimes we can't get what we really want because it's not on sale.  Also we get almost all of our food including milk, eggs and bread from Sams club.  We make one big trip a month and spend about 150 dollars and get everything we need.  Like they sell 5 lbs bags of shredded cheese for like 7 dollars.  We buys that and then break them up into smaller Ziploc bags of 1lbs each so it doesn't go bad and that lasts all month.  A 1 lbs bag of king soopers brand cheese is like 3 dollars.  Things like that really save us money.  I figured it all out buy taking a pad of paper to the different stores I shopped in a really compared all the prices.  It took a few weeks to really figure out what the best deals were, but now we spend $400 a month on food.  Much of it is all natural, whole grain and sometimes organic if it's on sale.  I'm a big believer in the "body buy God" mentality so I want the least processed foods I can get.  And I've lost 16 lbs! :-)  Anyway sorry for the tangent but this has really helped us eat well and save money.



 

Rebecca - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Joy:

I know where I live in the past few weeks the prices for food products have gone up from 50cents to up to a dollar more and it is starting to hurt my bank account. I buy way fewer organic products but I do have to keep buying some certain products because of my childrens allergies. But just trying to buy fresh fruits and veggies is ridiculous. Is anyone else in the area they live in seeing a substantial rise in prices for groceries within the last few weeks?


Yes, and from what I hear it is going to get worse. I just keep thinking about the book of Revelation, how noone will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. It just seems like the events going on in the world now are all falling in line with what the Bible says.

JL - posted on 06/10/2009

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I know where I live in the past few weeks the prices for food products have gone up from 50cents to up to a dollar more and it is starting to hurt my bank account. I buy way fewer organic products but I do have to keep buying some certain products because of my childrens allergies. But just trying to buy fresh fruits and veggies is ridiculous. Is anyone else in the area they live in seeing a substantial rise in prices for groceries within the last few weeks?

Rebecca - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Christa:

I think Greed is at fault for the mess we are in now. Both in the government and in corporations. The people on wall street knew they were buying crap, but didn't care because they were making millions and thought they'd worry about the problem later. Well later is here and their not being punished, we are. It's all because of greed!


Yes exactly right, but also the government contributed to the mess by taxing us to death, we are paying for everyone else's mistakes, for welfare not to mention the illegals. They  want to tell us what we can and can't do in every aspect of our lives. i'm sick of it.

Christa - posted on 06/10/2009

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On the malnutrition, Joy, I don't think that is why those children turn out with problems. I think it's the reason that they are malnourished, their parents. Their parent have serious problems, even a very low paying job and a good budget would allow you to feed you children. So clearly their parents are not fit, because of drugs, alcohol, abuse, laziness. I think that poor role model for an adult is why they turn out they way they do.



On the obesity, you can feed your children healthier on a budget. Eggs are the cheapest most pure form of protein and produce that is in season is usually very cheap. You may need to throw in ramen or macaroni, but they don't have to eat that 24/7 just because you are poor.

Christa - posted on 06/10/2009

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I think Greed is at fault for the mess we are in now. Both in the government and in corporations. The people on wall street knew they were buying crap, but didn't care because they were making millions and thought they'd worry about the problem later. Well later is here and their not being punished, we are. It's all because of greed!

Rebecca - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Traci:

Yeah, I wan't lumping any democrats in with those fools.

One thing, where do you see children who are dying of starvation in America? We've got food stamps, WIC, food banks, soup kitchens etc. Heck, 60% of school children are fed either breakfst, lunch, or both at school. We have a childhood obesity problem, not a starvation problem. I would like to know where those kids reside. If there are any children starving in America, its nobody but their parent's fault. There is no reason for that, the parents are probably too hopped up on drugs to notice.

When you talk about nationalizing industries in the form of regulation, that is why we have all these problems now. Heaven forbid somebody want to open up a refinery, factory, etc. They are regulated to death. Many industries don't feel its even worth it because of all the special interests and environmental types who won't let them install a lightbulb without a dozen permits.

I don't think corporations are what has taken over our country, I think gov't is to blame. There is not one aspect of our lives they do not seek to control. Most people are more afraid of big gov't than big business, and there is a good reason for that. The problem that is unfolding is when we have business and gov't working together-GE. They control much of the news, healthcare (which they are further expanding), energy, and other things. I have a problem with the incestuous nature of the relationship between the gov't and business.

Gov't regulations cause business to entagle in the gov't. If I'm a business man and I know certain politicians are going to have control over my industry through regulations, taxes, subsidies, etc, you can bet I'm going to get in tight with the guys who will vote my way. This is why lobbyists are rampant in Washington. If the gov't wasn't there to hand out power, money, etc, they would all be out of a job. Hence, the need for smaller gov't that keeps its nose out of the market.


I totally agree with you. We need to get rid of big government once and for all. I am sick of them telling us what to do. It is ridiculous. The government is at fault for the shape we are in now.

Rebecca - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Sara:

You know what i think is part of the obesity problem besides inactivity? Have you looked at the nutritional value of cheap food lately? It seems to me that to eat cheaply means to eat crappy. Organic, fresh foods are more expensive and there are a lot of families that can't afford it. I'm not saying that's the whole of the problem, but it is something I have noticed.


I have noticed that too. Healthy food is more expensive over all, plain and simple especially if you live in a small area like I do, There is no competition. We have two grocery stores that's it. You can buy a big pack of hot dogs and they will go a long way. That is the big problem, food costs. I guess if we all planted gardens that would help.

Sara - posted on 06/10/2009

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You know what i think is part of the obesity problem besides inactivity? Have you looked at the nutritional value of cheap food lately? It seems to me that to eat cheaply means to eat crappy. Organic, fresh foods are more expensive and there are a lot of families that can't afford it. I'm not saying that's the whole of the problem, but it is something I have noticed.

Traci - posted on 06/09/2009

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Oh, okay! I know, sometimes after writing so much its easy to make a mistake! lol We've all done it at one time or another! :)



I sometimes think we have to comes to terms with the imperfection of man. There will always be kids who don't have the perfect life, and it is terribly sad. But we have to remember that its their parents fault, not society's. We shouldn't blame ourselves for that. Whenever I see a kid not being taken care of properly, it breaks my heart. But I don't blame myself for that. I blame the schlub of a parent that kid was born to. Sometimes there is nothing you can do. Just raise your kids the right way so that they don't become that schlub of a parent one day.



The obesity problem I completely understand-nobody plays outside anymore! I barely ever see kids outside playing anymore. I know when I was little, we were never inside! We were always playing sports or riding our bikes. I try to do the same with my kids. I don't do the organic thing ( I think it's all hype, personally), but I don't let them stuff their faces with garbage all day and when its nice out I encourage them to go outside. My kids are great though...they barely ever ask to play their VSmile, they would rather play pretend or look at books and stuff. We've got upwards of 500 books for them, so they never get bored with them! (The secret to that is Goodwill. I joined book clubs for awhile and then got smart! GW sells their kids books for 50 cents, 25 on half price days, and many of them are brand new!) Again though, the obesity problem comes down to parental responsibility. Schools are making a big deal about vending machines and stuff. But, sorry, kids don't get fat on cafetria food...they're getting fat at home. Parent's fault!



Great conversation!!! :)

JL - posted on 06/09/2009

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I so totally had mommy brain malfunction last night, lol, that is what I get for typing late at night. I meant to talk about the numbers of children that die of starvation in the world and then the fact that we have so many rich people and why we cannot seem to do more to stop children from dying of starvation daily throughout this world and then I was going to talk about malnutrition in the US not starvation as an issue in comparison to other democratic and economically rich nations. But I so need to read before I hit the post button because half of what I was thinking did not come out, heck I just reread it and was like what was I trying to type because that makes no sense you moron. Usually I do a better job but I will chalk that one up to brain fog last night.

I believe the stastic is 1 in 8 kids under age 12 go to bed hungry which to me is ridiculous and yes we do have programs that have eliminated starvation in the US and lessened the number of children dying directly from malnutritition but I feel that no child should be hungry in this wealthy nation. And with current state of affairs the issue is starting to rise once again with food banks across the nation not being able to meet the needs of families in dire need of assistance, with soup kitchens serving a fourth of what they use to and some having to shut down, and with states having to cut funding to WIC programs and elimnate some of the things food stamps covered. It is firstly the parents responsibility but I feel like too many parents are neglectful and it is up to all the other adults in this nation to stand up for these children otherwise who will. The child welfare system is screwed up in my opinon because I see to many parents getting too many chances to prove that they can take care of thier kids and then we have to read the stories about how they died from abuse and malnutrition. I have personally worked with kids with behavioral disorters and learning disablilites and one of the running themes with many of the children was that they came from homes with inadequate access to food so they had to use emergency services. It has been found that living in a home with inadquate food sources and homes that rely on assistance that these kids have more issues with behavior and educational development that affects them in a negative way. They end up on average becoming more violent as teens and fall behind in school because malnutrition affects the ablility to understand basic concepts and as a result we have the perpetual circle of generational poverty. These children if they survive their circumstances often become teens and adults with less opprotunities because of thier stunted development. With our economy and especially when school is out this becomes a greater issue for lower income children across the US.

We do also have an obesity issue in this nation which I personally do not understand because my kids do not suffer from this but then again my kids eat healthy, organic, and do not spend their time in front of a video game system, computer, or tv. They are encouraged to run around outside, read--my kids have mini libraries in their rooms, and use thier imagination.

I personally do think that the big business do hold just as much responiblity as the government, becuase if businesses were doing the right thing all the time we wouldn't need government regulation. Sorry but I do not want some big corporation building next to where I live and not taking environmental precautions in order to not polllute the earth, water, and air my children share with them. I do not want to once again see a town ruined and ravaged with unusually high numbers of children affected with cancer because of some irresponsible company who was looking out for the bottom dollar. Many companies do the right thing but many others do not. Sometimes we have to enforce responsibility if the other party refuses to act responsible and both parties in this case have too often been irresponsible.

Traci - posted on 06/08/2009

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Yeah, I wan't lumping any democrats in with those fools.



One thing, where do you see children who are dying of starvation in America? We've got food stamps, WIC, food banks, soup kitchens etc. Heck, 60% of school children are fed either breakfst, lunch, or both at school. We have a childhood obesity problem, not a starvation problem. I would like to know where those kids reside. If there are any children starving in America, its nobody but their parent's fault. There is no reason for that, the parents are probably too hopped up on drugs to notice.



When you talk about nationalizing industries in the form of regulation, that is why we have all these problems now. Heaven forbid somebody want to open up a refinery, factory, etc. They are regulated to death. Many industries don't feel its even worth it because of all the special interests and environmental types who won't let them install a lightbulb without a dozen permits.



I don't think corporations are what has taken over our country, I think gov't is to blame. There is not one aspect of our lives they do not seek to control. Most people are more afraid of big gov't than big business, and there is a good reason for that. The problem that is unfolding is when we have business and gov't working together-GE. They control much of the news, healthcare (which they are further expanding), energy, and other things. I have a problem with the incestuous nature of the relationship between the gov't and business.



Gov't regulations cause business to entagle in the gov't. If I'm a business man and I know certain politicians are going to have control over my industry through regulations, taxes, subsidies, etc, you can bet I'm going to get in tight with the guys who will vote my way. This is why lobbyists are rampant in Washington. If the gov't wasn't there to hand out power, money, etc, they would all be out of a job. Hence, the need for smaller gov't that keeps its nose out of the market.

JL - posted on 06/08/2009

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The problem is that people look to socialism and communism as types of governments when in reality they are ideals and ideals can never stand alone as sufficeint governments. They do not work and have proven not to work. Communism when applied it was found it that it was not a government but an ideology that did not work suffieciently so the government officials moved toward governments that supposebly kept the ideals but rather mirrorred dictatorships. There is no pure communists government they are more of a mix of ideals insituted under dictorial style government that eventually encorporates forms of capitalism and some socialistic ideals. Most democracies have socialistic ideas instituted into their style of government combined with a capitalistic based economy. Socialism as a government will and cannot work because it is an ideal yet those ideals can be instituted in some form, but they cannot stand alone succcessfully. And as much as we want to make things fair we can never have equality in success. Some people will strive and make it further than others who have strived just as hard and some people will choose not to strive at all. We should have the same foundations... meaning opprotunties to an equal education and so on it from which to work from, but if someone chooses not to take advantage or strive I do not think we should lift them up to a higher status for the sake of equality, but we should have equal access at the base and should assist those who sometimes need a help up when things are beyond their control.

I mean I cannot regulate the idea that we have one of the largest numbers of rich people in this world and also one of the largest numbers of starving children. I don't get how so many kids in such a rich nation could die of starvation at the rates that they do in the U.S. That is shameful to me and is reflective upon all of us.

I don't read The Nation all the time but I have read the editorial series on reimagining socialism I didn't watch the program. So I won't comment on the program but from what I gather from you they may have been more sensational in their program than they were in their writings which came across differently. When I read it closely only a few people mostly Ehrenreich and Fletcher self identify as some form of being a socialist. Many of the other editorialist say that they do not identify with socialism and all including Ehrenreich and Fletcher stated in the peices that they wrote that a socialistic form of goverment is not realistic or ideal. They point out that socialists as a political group are few and far between and do not have the power to enforce socialism and they do not view Obama as being socialist. They argue to put more pressure on Obama. They are writing a piece on reimagining the ideals of socialism and the history behind socialism.. but I have to say they do a crappy job on outlining things and explaining their stances. They were wishy washy in their writings and Ehrehreich and Fletcher seemed more like they are trying to recapture or explain themselves as ex members of socialistic movements.

They attempt to recapture the socialistic ideals that have been instituted in many governements including ours and mostly what they are arguing about is how we have let our form of capitalism become an aristocracy that has run amock.We have let big busniess and certain companies become the purveryors of our economic system and they have abused this power and so now it is up to the people to rise up and take the system back which is what the ideal of socialism is about and that is why they are writing about reimaging socialism as a call to the people to enforce a form of capitalism free from corruption. And they advocate nationalizing industries in the form of regulating but then they admit within their writings that this would be far less pervasive then they suggest.

Most of the pieces in the editorial don't even mention , or discuss it in detail as an advocate type of government, or even champion the ideals of socialism too much. Most of what I read the editorialist are advocating for a responsible and more humane system.I think Ehrenreich and Fletcher in the discussion you watched were probably rallying a crowd that understood even less than they did on what they were actually advocating or not advocating, because their writings were not completely clear on their stance.

As far as The Nation that magazine has for so long historically flip flopped on the issue of socialism. Sometimes they are for it others times in history they have attacked it and the leaders of socialism. The magazine reallly seems to be more about preventing captialistic abuses that socialism warns of. The magazine and those writing for it may try to perpetuate at times themselves an adovcation for socialism but when read they are merely advocating the conception of instituting certain ideals and warninigs associated with socialism. Honestly they do not come off as pure socialists and I don't even think they completely understand what it is they are trying to reimagine seeing how they flipped flopped in their writings between the positives of capitalism and enviromentalism and socialism....in the end it just seemed like they were basically trying to discuss socialistic ideals in a way that took it out of the context of fearful attacks by attempting to form an intellectual analysis...though I must say they did a crappy job of doing so and I would not worry about what you viewed as spooky ideas and look at them as if they are the groundwork for liberalism.

Just remember they do not represent all of us and many Liberals read that magazine for its liberal take on many issues not for its half turn advocation of socialism and I say half turn because they have historically been wishy washy on the acceptance of socialism.

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Socialism has never worked in the history of the world. Democracy, or a Republic (which is what we are supposed to be), even with it's problems are a much better option to help the people retain their freedoms. You can't solve everyone's problems. You can't be everything to everyone. You can't take from someone what is theirs and give it to someone else 'more deserving'. You can't do any of this WITHOUT TAKING AWAY FREEDOM!



We are all put here on earth to learn how to deal with what life hands us. I am not a cold hearted person - I give 10-15% of my income to charity every year (wish I could give more). BUT, sometimes, other's have their struggles for a reason and maybe the only help we can offer is prayer and service were we can give it so that individual can learn what God intends them to learn through that experience.

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