twist on illegal immigration

Kat - posted on 05/30/2010 ( 69 moms have responded )

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first of all, i'd like to say personally, i think the AZ law should be applied in all 50 states, and all illegals should be deported. i also think the president should be SUPPORTING Arizona instead of basically saying the boycott is ok, and trying to get something done about our porous border. but i have 2 questions:

++ would people feel the same way about all illegals? Irish, Japanese, Australian, Canadian, etc? or is it just a hotbed issue because it's concerning the Southern Border.

++ what do we do with the kids of the illegals born in the US? their parents are illegal, but the kids, being born here, are citizens? do we keep the parents here or put the kids in foster care/orphanages? we cant deport citizens. or do we just change the law to say "if your parents are here illegally, and youre born here, youre illegal too"?

just wondering

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Heather - posted on 07/16/2010

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So let me get this straight, if your talking about illegal mexicans, you can be as racist as you want...you can say they are rats, roaches, pests, you can say that you pretty much want to shoot them...racism is racism whether your talking about legal or illegal immigrants...I dont care if your talking about the mexicans in your neighborhood...or every mexican in the US...its racism.

LaCi - posted on 07/16/2010

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Offer amnesty and eliminate the caps.

Those who have already spent the time to get in legally can deal with it, rules change.



I love my mexican neighbors. Although all the anti mexican bullshit is starting to make me dislike white people a bit.

LaCi - posted on 07/19/2010

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And you think those who cross illegally aren't working for something? Spare me, it's dangerous to leave to try to do something greater for your family. They risk their lives to be here, THAT is working hard.

You still didn't answer my question so I'll repeat it, even though you've pasted it so you should have read it. " Does it matter if I send money to family in canada? " It does NOT. It's my money. It also doesn't matter if you buy goods from china, even though you'll be sending money there. It's a big fucking river of money, it goes everywhere and it's ever flowing

Kat - posted on 07/15/2010

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"The illegals are coming here and doing the jobs that the hundreds of thousands of spoiled, lazy, unemployment collecting people wont do...yet these same Americans cry and boo hoo that there are no jobs! "

all those lazy american construction workers, damn them. lucky there's some illegal mexican to fill in for their lazy asses while they DONT collect unemployment and CANT get a job because some mexican came and will work for 1/2 the price and send the money back to mexico meanwhile living off his welfare-receiving american girlfriend. yah....sounds good.

"Let them stay and work so they can take care of their families. Let them stay and gratefully work the menial low paying jobs that American jobless snub their noses at...at least they dont expect a handout...they just want to earn money to care for their families..."

most of them DONT have families here. theyre back in mexico, where they send the money they make doing roofing jobs and picking watermelons. they live off of welfare and food stamps. they arent hard working. yah, theyre in the tobacco fields here in Indiana, and i'm sure in other fields. you ever see a mexican family here (other than AZ, NM, CA, or TX)? maybe 1 in 1000 mexicans bring their families here. most are men who come here by themselves and find a job and send the $$ back to mexico where their families live. they expect handouts. have you seen the news showing all the southwestern states? they expect a free handout called amnesty. instead of doing the HONEST thing (remember, theyre CRIMINALS, they became CRIMINALS the moment they crossed the border ILLEGALLY) and becoming a citizen. instead, they come here, live in government housing (if they cant find an apartment to fit 100 mexicans in), live on food stamps, and get medicaid and welfare. i've experienced this first hand working at the local walmart in college. most of the food stamp users and welfare users were mexicans. not those "ungrateful lazy americans" you talk about.

many of our ancestors came here legally. the ones who didnt were probably here before ellis island or sought political asylum due to the nazis or whatever. they didnt cross the border with a backpack in the middle of the night to sneak into the US. the difference was most of our ancestors came here and didnt apply for welfare like most of the mexicans do, they worked in factories, sometimes 18 hours a day for menial wages. they started businesses. they contributed more to society than these mexican illegals have (the mexicans have contributed tons of debt. look at CA). they come here and have anchor babies thinking they'll stay since their kids are automatic citizens (thank god theyre thinking of reversing that law, saying if your parents are illegal you arent a citizen, and can get deported with your criminal parents).

when i was in college, i tried to work at mcdonalds for some extra money, and wasnt hired because [quote] "you dont speak spanish, you cant work here. look at all them spics we got here. you gotta know mexican cuz none them mexicans can speak english back there" [/quote] by the manager. i wasnt hispanic, so i wasnt hireable. i'm not a lazy american who snubs their nose at menial jobs (like mcdonalds burger flipper). i was turned away because i wasnt illegal. i called ICE on them, they raided the place, and hopefully they were deported. the manager was fired, and now no illegals work there. so no....americans arent working menial jobs because theyre lazy and snobbish, theyre not working them because these places want illegals.

Pamela - posted on 06/30/2010

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How come no one almost never talks about the companies and corporations that hire these illegal immigrants? Shouldn't they be held accountable? Don't you think that if there were few to no jobs to be had here in the U.S., that much of the migration over the southern border would decline? Is it possible these companies see an opportunity to drive down American wages by hiring illegal immigrants (who perform jobs for minimal wages)? Maybe we should focus more on that.



Now another side to that: what if we change the laws making it easier for those illegals who are working legitimate jobs and aren't a part of the drug or gang scene, to become legal citizens? Why not? What's wrong with that?



Those who have past criminal activities (or current) - throw them out. Go for it. But those who don't, why not assimilate them? Because we are the BORG. Resistance is futile. We will assimilate you. Okay. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

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Diane - posted on 07/20/2010

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“And you think those who cross illegally aren't working for something? Spare me, it's dangerous to leave to try to do something greater for your family. They risk their lives to be here, THAT is working hard.’

Are you talking about the drug cartel and those who wish to hurt us? What are they working for? How about those that occupy our jails and prisons? What about the ones who come over and rape and murder and kill………..you talking about them?
Who the heck are you talking about?

You said, " Does it matter if I send money to family in canada? "

It does NOT. It's my money. It also doesn't matter if you buy goods from china, even though you'll be sending money there. It's a big fucking river of money, it goes everywhere and it's ever flowing.”

If you are here from Canada illegally and are getting free services…and send your money home…the same applies to you. Being here is illegal.

Do you think you could ever post just once without a potty mouth?

I haven’t seen you on television lately Laci………..you know your such an illegal expert and all.

All White you say?

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090415_...

I just found this comment from Mexican President Felipe Calderon……………”he has complained for two years that the U.S. isn’t carrying its weight in the cross-border drug war, despite the fact that American drug users and illegal weapons smugglers fuel the problem. “We need to stop the flow of guns and weapons towards Mexico,” President Calderon told U.S. reporters last month. “Let me express to you that we’ve seized in this last two years more than 25,000 weapons and guns, and more than 90 percent of them came from United States, and I’m talking from missiles launchers to machine guns and grenades…………….. On Wednesday, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder promised to enforce a long-ignored ban on importing assault weapons, many of which are re-sold illegally and smuggled into Mexico to re-supply the cartels. Calderon applauded the Obama Administration’s announcements saying it was the first time in many years that the American government was showing a stronger commitment to a mutual problem.”
LMAO He wants people on the border to stop weapons from coming into Mexico……..LMAO

Not on your life toots……This article is excellent.

“The number of Mexican and Central American nationals (e.g., El Salvadorans, Guatemalans & Nicaraguans) living in the U.S. occurred as a result of an influx of migrant laborers in search of higher-paying jobs and a better life for themselves and their families. However, the increased presence also brought with it a large number of drug traffickers. Some drug statistics estimate that twenty-three metric tons of cocaine is smuggled into the U.S. annually, two-thirds of which enter across the U.S./Mexican border. The DEA estimates that 80% of the methamphetamine in the U.S. is either manufactured in Mexico or is manufactured in the U.S. by Mexican and Central American drug traffickers operating under the direction of Mexican-based drug cartels. These illicit drug sales in the U.S. have resulted in a boom of revenues for Mexico, and to a lesser extent other Central American nations. In fact, after petroleum revenues, the second largest revenue source for Mexico comes from “foreign remittances” — immigrants sending money back home from the U.S., with a portion of those proceeds coming from illegal drug proceeds.”

This sorta blows your statement out of the water doesn’t it?
Well no wonder they want the borders open, it’s big revenue for Mexico.

http://globaleconomy.foreignpolicyblogs....

Laci………..you profile.

“If I lived in Madison, I'd be much more concerned about the 28 white sex offenders”

Wow Laci…they are white eh? How do you know that? LMAO.....racist?

Krista - posted on 07/20/2010

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Kids, I'm going to shut this one down. We've digressed from what to do about the problem of illegal aliens, and are now in a pointless back-and-forth about who is racist and who is not. Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts supplied by our sponsors.

LaCi - posted on 07/20/2010

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"heather, come here to Madison IN, go to the apartment complexes called Presidential, Windridge, and Hereford. tell me what you see. tell me if you'd wanna live there. tell me you dont see rampant drugs, rapes, and break-ins. go to our local wal mart and kroger, and tell me you wont see illegals sending at least $1000 back to their families in mexico or central/south america. tell me you wont see them whip out their welfare cards. so yes. it may be a stereotype where you live, but here, it's called reality. why dont you come here and tell me for yourself. go to chula vista to live and we'll see who's all for open borders then."

Yes you implied the illegals were the perpetrators, otherwise that statement wouldn't have been relevant to this discussion.

Kat - posted on 07/20/2010

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heather, it's not semantics. i dont look at all mexicans and think theyre illegal, either. we have ms13 and latin kings here. doesnt mean theyre legal or illegal. but i'm not saying all mexicans are illegal, you put words in my mouth. i simply stated the illegal mexicans are criminals, and most illegals here and in the sw are hispanic. most of the mexicans ive encountered who send money orders are illegals, i never said all of them were. you were making excuses for your racism. just because i'm against the illegal mexicans doesnt mean i hate mexicans, their culture, race, etc.

"I never said all black people are in gangs...I dont look at a black person and think he/she is in a gang...but you look at the mexicans who send money to mexico as illegal...you see a mexican using food stamps at walmart and think he is an illegal...THAT is profiling"

again, i never said i look at all mexicans and think theyre illegal. i never said i look at all mexicans on welfare and think theyre illegal. but what you said sounded racist and racially profiling as well. again, to use your own words, it doesnt matter if it's a gang of blacks in your neighborhood, or all blacks, it's still racism (just because it's not mexicans youre talking about doesnt make it any less racist).

i'm sure if i said i'm in CT, and we have a serious problem with crime where i live and its mostly mexican gangs killing people everyday, i'd be called racist.

i have no problems with mexicans who are legal. and no, i cant tell who's legal or not. but chances are if they speak NO english whatsoever, theyre fresh off the truck and not legal. THOSE are the ones i'm talking about.

Kat - posted on 07/20/2010

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"Sorry, I don't find the big mean streets of madison, indiana intimidating. "

who does? i definitely dont. and yes the meth labs are the white people except for the mexicans who come into the stores wanting all sorts of chemicals and i doubt it's to clean their places unless their place is so dirty it should be completely condemned or at least infested with something.

"And no, I couldn't even find anything about it in your papers because they would rather talk about prizewinning livestock and 4h fairs. "

sorry it's not as "big city" as down there in the metropolis of the clarksville/jeffersonville area. i never said the illegals were the murderers and rapists. my point was that there were the same problems here in podunk jeff county as there are anywhere. whether mexicans, whites, blacks, or whatever.

there's that 1, too--> http://madisoncourier.com/main.asp?FromH...

but again, i never said the illegals were the perpetrators. but by being illegal, theyre still criminals

Rosie - posted on 07/20/2010

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laci does bring up a good point. walmart has alot of products from china, so by buying stuff from walmart or working there (since you said you did) yoiu are essentially sending your money off to some foreign country as well.

look, i think people should have to go through the legal way to get here as well. i'm not too keen on people being here that can potentially go under the radar and commit crimes, or take jobs away from americans. i'm not too keen on them taking benefits from taxes, that some don't pay into. but you do have to realize that not all illegals are jobless (which means they pay taxes, and contribute to our society), or are people who run around raping and killing, and smoking all of our good meth, and weed. i realize coming here illegally is a crime in itself, but if i made $2 a week where i lived and had to try to feed my family of 5 on that, i think i'd try to go somewhere else too. i do wish they would come here LEGALLY though.
i think we should take the ones that have jobs, and actually contribute to our society and they should have amnesty. people just being here and living off of welfare, and doing nothing for america then i say yes, make them go back to where they came from. ;)

Heather - posted on 07/20/2010

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Kat, the gang I was referring to which is in this area of Ohio and killing people, are called...the black knights....I never said all black people are in gangs...I dont look at a black person and think he/she is in a gang...but you look at the mexicans who send money to mexico as illegal...you see a mexican using food stamps at walmart and think he is an illegal...THAT is profiling...I have better things to do with my time than argue semantics...you are so full of excuses...your not going to change my opinion about people like you...its not just you, there are tons of people who think like you and its sad IMO...and with that, I bow out of this debate.

LaCi - posted on 07/20/2010

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Wow, the illegal immigrants I've been arounddo speak english, broken.



And no, I couldn't even find anything about it in your papers because they would rather talk about prizewinning livestock and 4h fairs.



Sorry, I don't find the big mean streets of madison, indiana intimidating. As for meth labs, thats everywhere in the US and doesn't have anything to do with illegal immigration, in fact, it's typically white, american people.



If I lived in Madison, I'd be much more concerned about the 28 white sex offenders, the murders I did find-there were 2, one in 2002, one in 2006, unfortunately I can't find any information on what happened. Rapes, you have a few, can't find information on who did it. Although I did find a story of five people-none of which have names that sound even slightly foreign- who murdered a pregnant woman.

Kat - posted on 07/20/2010

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"I am in Ohio, and we have a serious problem with crime where I live and its mostly african american gangs killing people everyday"

to quote you, Heather, "I dont care if your talking about the [blacks] in your neighborhood...or every [black person] in the US...its racism."

who's racially profiling? not all blacks are in gangs, or criminals where you live. sounds...*gasp*.....racist. you really shouldnt call someone against illegals racially profiling or racist when you make a blanket statement about a race as well. it's hypocritical. real "classy"


no, illegals arent raping and pillaging madison. the ones who are legal can usually speak english (if somewhat broken) since they have to learn basic english to be legal (not to say they cant come here and learn even while illegal). the ones who are sending $$ to mexico cant speak a bit of english. i worked at the service desk at wal mart for money orders, and i'd ask for ID and things like that. most of them had names along the lines of "john smith" and even had stolen/fake IDs, showing me that they arent legal citizens. why wouldnt they not be able to speak english at all, have the name of mark pietrykowski (who i know personally, and kept the ID and returned it to him), and try to send money to mexico?

and i doubt anything here in madison would make the news down in clarksville/jeff/na. down there, did you hear about our 1 murder per year (most on walnut street?), probably not as youre so close to louisville. or the 2 meth labs that exploded and caused fires (on walnut street, again). or the drug busts? the big cocaine ring we had here a few years ago? i'd be surprised anything here in madison made any news down in clarksville. we have the rapes and murders and drug problem like any other nothing town in the US, and just as much as the bigger towns.

no it doesnt matter about who sends money where. what makes me mad is the people who say theyre contributing money to our economy when theyre not as the money goes to mexico or some central/south american country. they need to be honest and say theyre contributing to the welfare state (i have to pay $29000 for a surgery whereas if i were illegal, it wouldve been free of charge, since - dunno about clarksville, but here in madison - illegal = free medical care, legal citizen = pay out the ass for just a dr visit), not the economic growth (other than the proliferation of mexican restaurants/stores). so there's your answer. no it wouldnt matter where you send $$. it doesnt matter where they send their money. i could care less. but what matters is the "theyre contributing to the US economy positively" when they arent. THAT'S what bothers me about it. they make the $$ here, the least they could do is spend it here and put it back into our economy and not mexico's (or belize or venezuela's).

Diane - posted on 07/19/2010

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“I agree. A piece of paper doesn't define the value of an individual or human life.’
And does a deed give you right to property that you have paid for?
A piece of paper does mean something to those who worked for what is on it.
Laci asked“And who cares if they send money to their families in mexico? Does it matter if I send money to family in canada? Irrelevant.”
This is one of the things that those who want amnesty say about illegals. They work hard and they give back into the system that supports them.
If they work here and send money home…then how are they thanking the system monetarily by sending all their money home?

Heather - posted on 07/19/2010

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" heather, come here to Madison IN, go to the apartment complexes called Presidential, Windridge, and Hereford. tell me what you see. tell me if you'd wanna live there. tell me you dont see rampant drugs, rapes, and break-ins. go to our local wal mart and kroger, and tell me you wont see illegals sending at least $1000 back to their families in mexico or central/south america. tell me you wont see them whip out their welfare cards. so yes. it may be a stereotype where you live, but here, it's called reality. why dont you come here and tell me for yourself. go to chula vista to live and we'll see who's all for open borders then. "



Kat, I am in Ohio, and we have a serious problem with crime where I live and its mostly african american gangs killing people everyday, they accidentally shot and killed a 3 year old playing in her front yard just yesterday...that still does not give me the right to come on here and spew stereotypes about black people... How the heck do you know that all the Mexicans where you live are illegal? Are you psychic or just racially profiling??? Just because a mexican sends money to mexico does not make him illegal. You are just assuming they are, they could be here with a work visa to send money to their families and help give them a better life...or they could be here illegally, or they could be citizens:::gasp:::: you dont know. As far as living in those areas you mentioned, of course I wouldnt want to live there, but we have the same kind of areas here which are full of criminals who ARE citizens...they are called the "projects" and they are full of poverty stricken, drug addicted, oppressed people. My point is that deporting illegals is not going to stop crime.

You can say what you want to defend yourself and try to explain/justify what you said...but IMO you are still profiling and stereotyping...I really dont care if its "based on your experience" or not... that to me sounds like an excuse to be racist.

LaCi - posted on 07/19/2010

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I quite enjoy madison. Honestly though I've never seen anything but white people in Madison, haven't noticed any crime or drugs either, granted, I rarely go there because there isn't much there. But I'll take a stab at it and say I'm fairly confident Clarksville has much greater problems with drugs, and a higher number of illegals, and I can honestly say it's not that freakin' bad. New Albany and Jeff 10x greater than clarksville, and still, not that bad. Considering the local papers read like high school newspapers and I have yet to find anything about rampant rapes in madison-because it sounded very strange living so close by and having family in madison that I wouldn't have heard anything about these crazy illegals raping and pillaging the town... Anyway.



And who cares if they send money to their families in mexico? Does it matter if I send money to family in canada? Irrelevant.

Kat - posted on 07/19/2010

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i have no contempt of mexicans or any hispanics. i dont think illegal irishmen or icelanders or whatever should be allowed to stay. and all that was BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES with illegals.

"Um, she compared a whole race of people to rats and possum and other pests ...and I quote "you cant shoot them like you could a possum or other pest in the house (and yes, i know theyre human, but they dont belong here unless they can come here legally, so theyre on the same level with possums, rats, or other household pests). " "

i didnt compare mexicans to rats or possums. it was the illegals. i'm sorry there werent illegal canadians creeping around our apartment. and i'm sorry irish soda bread isnt as good as an enchilada. no, the race of mexicans arent rats. the ones who are illegal (aka criminals) are.

remember....illegal is NOT a race. mexican IS a race. saying illegal is a race is just the same as saying all blue eyed people are a race. i hate when people put words in my mouth.

heather, come here to Madison IN, go to the apartment complexes called Presidential, Windridge, and Hereford. tell me what you see. tell me if you'd wanna live there. tell me you dont see rampant drugs, rapes, and break-ins. go to our local wal mart and kroger, and tell me you wont see illegals sending at least $1000 back to their families in mexico or central/south america. tell me you wont see them whip out their welfare cards. so yes. it may be a stereotype where you live, but here, it's called reality. why dont you come here and tell me for yourself. go to chula vista to live and we'll see who's all for open borders then.

"I wouldn't go so far as to compare rats and roaches. I have met (in those 2 decades) many illegals who would pay anything - if the government would allow them to be here- to stay, to bring their family over - to be citizens. I understand that -they're human, they want a better life."

the government will allow them to stay here. it's called applying for citizenship. too bad many of them cant be citizens, as many are already violent criminals in mexico (not all, but there are some). unless they have something to hide, theyre more than willing to become citizens and stay here legally. i've taken the citizenship test to pass my 12th grade govt class. it's not hard at all.

i'm sorry if we dont have a massive polish illegal immigrant problem. would it be racist if i said those damn poles, we need to shoot 'em like the rats they are. or i hate the russians, damn stupid drunks, kill 'em with poison. probably not, since i'm white and most russians and poles are white. i love how the people against the MEXICAN illegals are racist, even when the racism miraculously disappears when it comes to the legal mexicans. ILLEGAL IS NOT A RACE. ILLEGAL IS A STATE OF BEING (such as rapist, murderer, drug runner).

many of the illegals (ive seen this on the news) sell ssn's of deceased people and things like that. it's pretty easy to get welfare/medicaid/foodstamps if youre illegal. i've done it online on indiana's site too just to be curious about how they can do it.

"I think Kat's epithets were aimed more towards criminals who happen to be Mexican, rather than Mexicans who are criminals. It's one of those really gray areas. However, I can definitely see how it could be interpreted as racist. So if we can try to moderate our language and focus on the PROBLEM, and not the people, then that would be really helpful"

thank you. i'm not talking about the hispanic people as much as the problem that come with them being illegal. i love me some mexican food too. but me being against the mexican (or any illegals, but come on, there are more hispanic illegals here in the US than vietnamese or australian or wherever) illegals doesnt mean i hate the race or am racist. i hate the fact that theyre here illegally making money to send back to mexico. and just because large concentrations of them lead to mexican restaurants or stores, doesnt make their presence here right.

Rosie - posted on 07/17/2010

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in my state we have to show our social security card or birth certificate at every doctors appointment or they won't treat you. seems like people are doing a lot of insurance fraud. however after this new law started (i think jan) they havn't asked me for it more than once.

LaCi - posted on 07/17/2010

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I guess when it comes down to it, they'd rather you didn't starve. Which I agree with.

ME - posted on 07/17/2010

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That's really interesting Laci...I am surprised by that as well...I have WIC and Medicaid right now, and had to prove that I was a citizen. I had to show all kinds of documentation, and so did my husband and son...I wonder if they would actually give it to the undocumented family, or if approval doesn't necessarily mean you will get coverage some how...For example...I was originally approved for coverage by these programs on line last fall, but then when we finally started talking to people in person, we discovered that my husband had made about 1000 dollars too much for the year, and we had to reapply in Jan. of the new year...

LaCi - posted on 07/16/2010

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I just did a fake screener for indiana medicaid as an illegal immigrant and I did qualify for everything, as did my entire illegal family. So apparently, yes, they can get benefits even without citizenship. :)

Heather - posted on 07/16/2010

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I was wondering how are illegal immigrants getting welfare (other than through a second party such as a girlfriend/boyfriend) When my son was born and I had to quit my job due to pregnancy related problems, I applied for healthy start...and I had to show all kinds of proof, such as birth certs and social security cards in order to even apply, let alone qualify...and this was not even for stamps or cash...so how are they getting welfare without social security numbers?

Krista - posted on 07/16/2010

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I think Kat's epithets were aimed more towards criminals who happen to be Mexican, rather than Mexicans who are criminals. It's one of those really gray areas. However, I can definitely see how it could be interpreted as racist. So if we can try to moderate our language and focus on the PROBLEM, and not the people, then that would be really helpful.

Thanks.

LaCi - posted on 07/16/2010

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I agree. A piece of paper doesn't define the value of an individual or human life.

Michelle - posted on 07/15/2010

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IF we offer amnesty to all the illegals in this country. Then IMO what we are telling the people who came here legally is this "haha suckers, you should have saved your time and money."

~Jennifer - posted on 07/15/2010

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I wouldn't go so far as to compare rats and roaches. I have met (in those 2 decades) many illegals who would pay anything - if the government would allow them to be here- to stay, to bring their family over - to be citizens. I understand that -they're human, they want a better life.

I get it.

They're still here illegally.

My Landlords are from South Africa. They have become citizens. It cost them a fortune...in cash, time and their own free time. They worked hard within the system that's been set up just to be here. Why sould someone else receive preferential treatment just because they flew under the radar all this time.

Should we offer amnesty?

....maybe..

.....but then, what do we say to all the people that have spent their life, their time and their savings to do it legally prior to this?

Michelle - posted on 07/15/2010

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With the latest numbers of illegal immigrants being 10.8 million, I would have to agree that they are like rats or even roaches. They move here and expect to be treated as citizens, but have no honor for the country which gives them the liberties they don't receive in their own country.

~Jennifer - posted on 07/15/2010

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....she didn't say "every" one. She said 'the ones {sic}that are'....and I completely agree with her analogy of "the ones that are".



They just started complaining 'down over there' a few years ago.....we in the northeast have been complaining for (at least) 2 decades.



........................and she's not saying anything that we haven't seen up there.

Heather - posted on 07/15/2010

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" the ones where i live are all on welfare, married to women on welfare, living in govt housing, or live with at least 20 other mexicans in 1 small house. so no, they arent stereotypes "

Unless you can PROVE that every single mexican where you live is on welfare, living with women on welfare, living in govt. housing, or live with 20 other mexicans in one small house...its a STEREOTYPE!
If you can prove it, then you could argue that its a fact...until then you just look racist.

Heather - posted on 07/15/2010

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Um, she compared a whole race of people to rats and possum and other pests ...and I quote "you cant shoot them like you could a possum or other pest in the house (and yes, i know theyre human, but they dont belong here unless they can come here legally, so theyre on the same level with possums, rats, or other household pests). "



Classy!

Diane - posted on 07/15/2010

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I would say that heather yours would be a flagged post.

Kat only gave her opinion BASED ON HER EXPERIENCE. which with you radical left wingers cant happen on here without attack.

Rosie - posted on 07/15/2010

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really? mexicans too you are on the same level as possums or rats? don't you find calling another human being, whom you know nothing about, less than human, a rat, is a tad harsh and sterotypical?

and people sit there and wonder why those opposed to the law would think that it could be used for racial profiling. well with the crap that you just spewed out of your mouth it's no wonder. i'm ashamed to agree with someone about the new law, who has such clear contempt for another race. gah!!! superman have mercy!!

LaCi - posted on 07/15/2010

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You do need to be legal to open businesses, however, these business are here because of our illegal population. You rarely see a white person entering what they call "little mexico" they exist off the immigrant population.

Except me of course. Because I do love my mexican food.

Kat - posted on 07/15/2010

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the ones where i live are all on welfare, married to women on welfare, living in govt housing, or live with at least 20 other mexicans in 1 small house. so no, they arent stereotypes. maybe they are where you live, but here, they arent stereotypes. i lived in san diego, very concentrated in mexicans (most likely more so than in your IN town), in the chula vista neighborhood, which is practically mexico, and it was the same way there. welfare, food stamps, plus you get the major criminals (rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc) there. maybe not so much here in IN (wait...yes, there are those here, too, as i've worked with them, again, no stereotype). in chula vista, they hid under our cars, in our laundry room, all over our apt building. and you couldnt do a thing about it. you cant shoot them like you could a possum or other pest in the house (and yes, i know theyre human, but they dont belong here unless they can come here legally, so theyre on the same level with possums, rats, or other household pests). you cant call the cops, since they wont come around, and cant do anything about it anyway because they basically arent allowed to.

i'm sure the ones who "blessed" your town with stores and restaurants are legal, as you need to be legal to open something like that. so the illegals most likely havent blessed your town with anything.

it all comes down to one fact. theyre criminals. theyre criminals the moment they set foot across the border illegally. men, women, children, babies, old people, and their dogs. all criminals. all federal criminals. all felons. and it'd help if the US would stop allowing their anchor babies to be citizens.

LaCi - posted on 07/15/2010

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Wow. Those are some nice stereotypes.

I know many girls who have married and started families with illegal mexican immigrants. As far as I know, none of them are living off the welfare system, and all of them are working full time.

Also in indiana, I live right next to the mostly highly concentrated mexican part of town, and there are MANY mexican families here. Entirely mexican, immigrated together. They've also blessed my area with a thousand mexican restaurants and grocery stores, it's fantastic.

Heather - posted on 07/11/2010

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I say let them stay. The illegals are coming here and doing the jobs that the hundreds of thousands of spoiled, lazy, unemployment collecting people wont do...yet these same Americans cry and boo hoo that there are no jobs! Isnt it funny how all these illegal immigrants have jobs...yet billions of unemployment dollars are shelled out, and extension after extension is given so these people can sit on their asses for years in alot of cases, and whine that there are just not any jobs...I say let them stay here and work since the actually know the meaning of the earned dollar. Let them stay and work so they can take care of their families. Let them stay and gratefully work the menial low paying jobs that American jobless snub their noses at...at least they dont expect a handout...they just want to earn money to care for their families...just like many of our own ancestors came here to do.

Diane - posted on 07/10/2010

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Bush was a failure at securing the border, in eight years he did nothing. He also wanted the Latino vote...so the south western states got nothing.
He has a family member...I think his sister in law who is Mexican and that might help explain it.

No party wants to do anything...so kudos to Brewer that finally forced them into doing something.

If is funny in the lawsuit against Arizona.....nothing was put in it about racial profiling....thats because they know they cant win along thoses lines.

Kat - posted on 07/02/2010

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any law could potentially lead to racial profiling, and sb1070 is no different.

Pamela - posted on 07/02/2010

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"Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush says he opposes the new Arizona immigration law, making him the first top national Republican figure to do so".

I find this interesting because the Bush brothers are on the front lines of the immigration issue (particularly George). They don't like what Brewer signed into law.

"The new rules make policemen check the status of any immigrants they reasonably suspect to be here illegally and arrest them if they can't prove they are here legally".

This is Jeb Bush speaking. He's in agreement with his other brother, whom would George. The implication here is that neither are for the Arizona immigration law. Why?

"I think it creates unintended consequences," Bush told Politico. "It's difficult for me to imagine how you're going to enforce this law. It places a significant burden on local law enforcement and you have civil liberties issues that are significant as well."

So while the intent of the law is perhaps not racial profiling, the unintended consequences could easily lead to that. That's why a "comprehensive immigration reform is the way to go. Jeb Bush favors tougher border security and permitting more immigrants to become citizens".

Kat - posted on 07/02/2010

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"I believe he does know the laws and the fact is, Arizona's law smacks up against a federal law that makes it illegal to go after people on the basis of their race, gender etc. Unfortunately, Arizona's law does just that."

it doesnt give leeway for racial profiling. theyre not gonna go after every brown person and shove them to the ground yelling "show me your papers or else." you get pulled over, they say "license and registration please" you dont have it, they ask for proof of citizenship. you dont have it, you dont speak english, you get your ass hauled off to prison. i wont say there's gonna be some cops who wont racially profile people, but it may come as a surprise that there ARE hisanic cops in AZ. many LEGAL hispanics are for this law, and many arent.

it's illegal to be here illegally. it's illegal to be in mexico illegally. what makes the US so special? why shouldnt we enforce the law that makes it illegal to be here illegally? every other place enforces their laws, requires passports or papers to be there. why dont we?

i just dont understand why they have to come here illegally. it costs just as much money to come here legally as it does to pay a coyote to transport them across the border in a box truck or thru the desert. only the coyote can kill you, dump your body in the desert, and take your money while the vultures pick your body apart. to me, it'd be safer to come legally. my ancestors came legally thru ellis island. lots of hispanics come legally. it makes no sense. unless theyre already major criminals (many already are rapists, murderers, and such) and dont wanna be found out.

"I believe he does know the laws and the fact is, Arizona's law smacks up against a federal law that makes it illegal to go after people on the basis of their race, gender etc. Unfortunately, Arizona's law does just that."

that's like saying AZ's law says "stop all brown spanish-speaking people, and dont forget about the light-skinned ones, hell, just stop anyone with black hair & brown eyes."

Section 130008 of Pub. L. 103–322 provided that:
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subsection (b) and notwithstanding
any other provision of law, the Attorney
General, in the discretion of the Attorney General, may
accept, hold, administer, and utilize gifts of property
and services (which may not include cash assistance)
from State and local governments for the purpose of assisting
the Immigration and Naturalization Service in
the transportation of deportable aliens who are arrested
for misdemeanor or felony crimes under State or
Federal law and who are either unlawfully within the
United States or willing to submit to voluntary departure
under safeguards. Any property acquired pursuant
to this section shall be acquired in the name of the
United States.

"There is also no victim in a drug deal. They are willing participants and that's why I can not wrap my head around why it is illegal. It seems millions of others can't either and ignore the laws. "

that doesnt make it right. i agree, maybe we should legalize drugs, only gradually. not a "hey everyone get your crack and heroin at your local CrackMart" type of thing. there'd be ODs all over the place from the people already hooked.

‘‘(b) LIMITATION.—The Attorney General shall terminate
or rescind the exercise of the authority under subsection
(a) if the Attorney General determines that the
exercise of such authority has resulted in discrimination
by law enforcement officials on the basis of race,
color, or national origin.’

that's basically what the AZ law says. it's too long to post here ---> http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bi...

AZ's problem is that the federal govt has no wanting to enforce the law. at all. according to the president, because the "border is too vast." that's what the national guard is for. to protect our borders. comprehensive immigration reform, aka amnesty, is definitely not the answer, as more illegals will come here thinking in another 20 years the next idiot in the white house will do the same thing. tho, i dunno why Obama's all for immigration reform as he was so against it in 2007.

Jenny - posted on 07/01/2010

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Kat: that's like saying we have an over population problem and murderers are fulfilling a demand for those who think we need to control that. i guess theyd be along the lines of environmentalists, controlling the part of the earth that makes the most pollution.



Me: That is not a good analogy because it does not involve a consenting buyer and seller of goods or services. There is also no victim in a drug deal. They are willing participants and that's why I can not wrap my head around why it is illegal. It seems millions of others can't either and ignore the laws.



Kat: but they dont always take drugs across the border. many times they take young girls for the truck stops. come here to IN and you'll see all kinds of hispanic GIRLS (not women, i'm talking GIRLS aged 11-14 looks like) servicing the truckers. loads of girls. i guess theyre fulfilling a need, too. those damn ungrateful american girls wont lower themselves to help out those lonely truckers, good thing we have little hispanic girls to prostitute themselves here in the land of opportunity and gold-paved streets.



Me: Now in this case there is clearly a victim and that is why the practice must be fought. Think of how much money and manpower could be poured into real crimes like this if you had no budgets for the failure of fighting drugs and attempting to keep the borders closed.

Pamela - posted on 07/01/2010

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"and i agree it's not only Obama, it was every president before him who didnt take care of it too. only thing is, he's fighting the states over something that's actually a FEDERAL law, not only a state law. maybe if he knew the laws, he'd be able to enforce them, either that or he could care less and wants to turn this country into Maoist China. go Che Guevara, right"?

I fail to see how this is really helpful? How does accusing the Obama administration (and anyone who supports it) of communism help? You're going sideways when you lob accusations like that out and it does nothing for discussion.

I believe he does know the laws and the fact is, Arizona's law smacks up against a federal law that makes it illegal to go after people on the basis of their race, gender etc. Unfortunately, Arizona's law does just that.

Section 130008 of Pub. L. 103–322 provided that:
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subsection (b) and notwithstanding
any other provision of law, the Attorney
General, in the discretion of the Attorney General, may
accept, hold, administer, and utilize gifts of property
and services (which may not include cash assistance)
from State and local governments for the purpose of assisting
the Immigration and Naturalization Service in
the transportation of deportable aliens who are arrested
for misdemeanor or felony crimes under State or
Federal law and who are either unlawfully within the
United States or willing to submit to voluntary departure
under safeguards. Any property acquired pursuant
to this section shall be acquired in the name of the
United States.
‘‘(b) LIMITATION.—The Attorney General shall terminate
or rescind the exercise of the authority under subsection
(a) if the Attorney General determines that the
exercise of such authority has resulted in discrimination
by law enforcement officials on the basis of race,
color, or national origin.’

The second part of this piece is where Arizona is running into problems with the Federal Government.


Interestingly Jeb Bush is against Arizona's law. Got this from Newmax:

"Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush says he opposes the new Arizona immigration law, making him the first top national Republican figure to do so.

The new rules make policemen check the status of any immigrants they reasonably suspect to be here illegally and arrest them if they can't prove they are here legally.

"I think it creates unintended consequences," Bush told Politico. "It's difficult for me to imagine how you're going to enforce this law. It places a significant burden on local law enforcement and you have civil liberties issues that are significant as well."

Bush explains that after giving a speech Monday night, a Hispanic man expressed his concern that the law will foster racial discrimination and unfair targeting of Hispanics.

"He said, 'My parents live here, my grandparents live here — I'm Mexican-American. I could be picked up.'"

The uproar that sparked the Arizona bill is understandable, Bush says. But he maintains that immigration should remain a federal issue".



"I don't think this is the proper approach," he said.

Bush and his brother believe comprehensive immigration reform is the way to go. Jeb Bush favors tougher border security and permitting more immigrants to become citizens.

ME - posted on 07/01/2010

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"it'll be boycotters of an awesome law against illegals vs people who want open borders." -Kat

This is a false dichotomy...It is possible to be against racial profiling, and against open borders...but by all means, all those in favor of racial profiling should pick a state, move to it, and secede (I'm sure it will be a nice white hegemonic society for all). Just please give the rest of the good people of that state a chance to choose sanity, and leave...

Kat - posted on 06/30/2010

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"What they are doing is working within a Capitalist system. They are meeting a demand and providing a service to the community, even those dealing drugs. It isn't any more complicated than that."

that's like saying we have an over population problem and murderers are fulfilling a demand for those who think we need to control that. i guess theyd be along the lines of environmentalists, controlling the part of the earth that makes the most pollution.

but they dont always take drugs across the border. many times they take young girls for the truck stops. come here to IN and you'll see all kinds of hispanic GIRLS (not women, i'm talking GIRLS aged 11-14 looks like) servicing the truckers. loads of girls. i guess theyre fulfilling a need, too. those damn ungrateful american girls wont lower themselves to help out those lonely truckers, good thing we have little hispanic girls to prostitute themselves here in the land of opportunity and gold-paved streets.

if they used the thousands of dollars the coyotes off of them to pay for legal immigration, there would be no problem.

and i agree it's not only Obama, it was every president before him who didnt take care of it too. only thing is, he's fighting the states over something that's actually a FEDERAL law, not only a state law. maybe if he knew the laws, he'd be able to enforce them, either that or he could care less and wants to turn this country into Maoist China. go Che Guevara, right?

to the people who want open borders, i think we should send them down to the border of mexico and see how great it is. put them in that area of AZ where americans cant go since it's too overrun with mexican drug lords and smugglers. we'll see how many of the open borders people are still for open borders :)

i wonder if states can secede nowadays or if there's a law against it. only instead of pro-slave vs no-slave, it'll be boycotters of an awesome law against illegals vs people who want open borders.

Pamela - posted on 06/30/2010

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Ditto Krista! Yes, yes and again yes! And frankly, that's exactly how this whole road show should be done!

Trickle down economics is such a line of pure unadulterated bullshit. It benefits only the wealthiest of the wealthy. The wealth does not trickle down, it does not go into our local economies - it gets nested and invested into offshore accounts. And our wages plummet.

As usual, the answers to all our pressing hot button issues, are not simplistic. They will not be found in sound bites and election year pandering.

This has been a problem for quite a while - even during Bush's tenure as President. He didn't really do anything about it either. So now it's the hot item of an election year. Surprising that.

Krista - posted on 06/30/2010

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The whole damn system contributes to it, really. A lot of people aren't paid a fair wage, so they have to find the cheapest prices for stuff. Manufacturers and suppliers know that they cannot get away with charging high prices for their goods anymore (not when we can get it all for $0.03 a pallet from China). So in order to keep their prices low, they have to cut overhead. They cut overhead by hiring people for as cheaply as they can get away with. And who is willing to work for just a dollar or two a day? Illegal immigrants.

So, working backwards from there, in order to arrange it so that there aren't any jobs FOR the immigrants, these manufacturers/suppliers have to offer a high enough living wage that Americans will want those jobs. In order to do that, they'll have to raise their prices. And in order to raise their prices and still succeed, people have to be able to afford those prices. So for people to afford those prices, they have to be making a higher wage. It's sort of a chicken/egg thing, really. If your average Joe is making an extra $3 an hour, he's not going to squirrel it away in an offshore account. He's going to maybe buy new shoes for his kids, instead of second hand ones. He might even take his wife out for a nice meal every so often. He, and others, will spend more, which will provide more money to those suppliers, allowing them to pay their employees more.

it's basically like trickle-UP economics, but it will only work if all companies are willing to put extra profit back into wages, and not just into bonuses for the executives.

Jenny - posted on 06/29/2010

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What "should" happen is not always reality. Immigration laws are a bandaid, not a cure.

Michelle - posted on 06/29/2010

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Well if they don't believe in our laws then they shouldn't be here, end of discussion. If they don't believe in our laws then they don't follow our laws, they feel they are above our laws. They are criminals and should be deported immediately.

Jenny - posted on 06/29/2010

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What they are doing is working within a Capitalist system. They are meeting a demand and providing a service to the community, even those dealing drugs. It isn't any more complicated than that.

Pride has nothing to do with providing for your family when it gets right down to it. It might be a bonus prize but it's not essential. If a family is living in an overrated cardboard box with litle hope for the future, even picking grapes for ungrateful Americans sounds like a better life. Even transporting drugs sounds like a better life. It has nothing to do with respecting laws they (rightly IMO) don't believe in, you are projecting your moral standing onto others who do not have the same experiences/upbringing/education in life as you. We are not capable of experiencing what led them to the point of feeling it neccessary to take those drastic steps in their lives.

Michelle - posted on 06/29/2010

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Jenny, I disagree with your comment that they want something better for their families. If that were the case they would follow our laws and be PROUD to be American, legal or illegal. They are not proud of the country that they run to. They come here because it is easy for them to take advantage of the situation, make more money, and send it home to support the Mexican economy or whatever other nationality they are. The illegals come from all over the world. Some are smuggled in by members of their own country who pimp them out, make them work in sweat shops for next to nothing and charge outrageous fees. If they want to come here they should do it legally. I for one feel sorry for those that have invested their time and energy becoming legal citizens only to have illegals get away with not having to do so.

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