Universal Healthcare is the Final Destination

JL - posted on 08/10/2009

From what I have read their have been ongoing meetings with GOP representatives to come up with a compromise but the problem and sticking point for both sides is the public option. One side wants one and the other side doesn't so where do we go from there....

Christa - posted on 08/10/2009

Why can't the Dems include the Repubs in these preliminary discussions? That's my question. We have been shut out completely, just like the stimulus bill. And I'm sick of hearing the GOP is the party of no and has no solutions. We sure do, but nobody wants to hear them. Just like the stimulus bill sponsored by McCain that wasn't even looked at. We want our voices heard now, when it really matters, once the Dems have agreed on a bill they will just force it through like they've done in the past.

JL - posted on 08/10/2009

I am talking about a plan that has been finalized.... meaning it has been agreed upon by the majority as the plan being put up for vote..right now the Democrats cannot even agree on the exacts of what to put up for a vote and the Republicans are waiting to put out anything substantive. And even if the House passes something through the Senate still has to drudge through it and add or take out what they want. So even if something is being presented we don't know if that will be the end result..I just want something done because we have been waiting and bickering for too long.

Laura - posted on 08/09/2009

Oh, for those who say that Medicare is great, people love it. Part of the reason for that is that a couple of years ago (yes Bush administration) they passed a law allowing the administration of Medicare to be done by private companies. Before that law was passed it was a paperwork nightmare and nobody was getting paid. The government admitted they were bad at it and it is running much better. Not to mention you can still have supplemental insurance with it. I remember my mom pulling her hair out trying to get through the red tape of my grandma's Medicare problems.

Laura - posted on 08/09/2009

And don't forgot Joy, a finalized plan will be the plan that they passed, not one for you to read and discuss before passing. These town hall discussions, were they even suppossed to happen, the health care plan was suppossed to be passed by now. The agreement is that something needs to be done, but I agree with you Christa there needs to be some discussion and observation of options. There's apparantly a group in the Madison(?) area where the doctors provide the health care insurance. It's been a while since if read the article so I don't remember how it works but if they over charge or use a more expensive than necessary product the difference comes out of the doctor's pay. Can we look at that? I'm sure there are other innovative ideas to keep the gov. out of things. The shoving this down our throats feels like a dictatorship.

Jenny - posted on 08/08/2009

Which is yet another reason to do away with parties completely and vote in individuals and on issues. Direct Democracy is the way to go.



As long as their are parties out there fighting for their agendas nothing of any significance will EVER get done. They don't give a crap about the people, people are just poll numbers to them. Right now it's just a game. Be glad you only have two parties to deal with though, we have like four and none of them are ever happy.

Christa - posted on 08/08/2009

Joy I agree with you, but the blame falls on both sides. Yes there have been some town hall meetings that have gone too far, but have you stopped to wonder why people are acting this way? It's not because all us conservatives are wack jobs, though I know that's what some believe, it's because we don't have a voice to represent us. We are hoping and praying that the Blue Dog Dems can lock this down because the republicans have ZERO say in anything that goes on from now until 2010. Obama has made it clear that he doesn't care about the conservatives opinions. There have been NO bipartisan talks, no compromise, just strong arming and bullying and calling the republicans uncooperative. Well we conservatives are sick of it and we HAVE to have our voices heard and some are taking their frustrations out the wrong way. We NEED a solution, but we need one that serves all it’s citizens not just 49% of the population (the latest pool showing support for the plan). Obama campaigned on bipartisanship and so far all I see is one BIG liar and hypocrite.

Isobel - posted on 08/08/2009

AMEN!!

JL - posted on 08/07/2009

Personally I am waiting for an actual finalized plan to come out instead of reading all the emails and misinformation that is coming out from both sides. I am also tired of all the screaming matches, verbal attacks, and just plain craziness. It seems like we are all playing the parts both political parties want us to. Through all the screaming I keep hearing that both sides want something done well if we all stopped playing right into the hands of both parties and letting them manipulate and use us so they can worry about who will be in power and who will not...because lets get real here we know the bottom line is Democrats are trying to maintain their seats and Republicans see an opprotunity to manipulate public discourse in order to win the next elections...maybe we could accomplish something.



Maybe if people actually showed up at town hall meetings wanting to carry on a conversation rather that scream, threaten and attack then we could actually come up with a way to fix healthcare. I am sorry but how do you take someone serious enough to have an open talk with them when they are chanting that Obama is Hilter, Democrats are Nazis and they are verbally threatening physical harm to political representatives..it is kind hard to stop and want to hear the opposing opinions when all you hear is viseral anger and hateful rhetoric. As far as I see it right now with the track we are on..nothing will be done not a thing because politics as usual will keep on going. Democrats will continue to infight and Republicans will continue to yell NO and no one will put out any other plans out that may work better. I for one am tired of the politics and BS. Here I am in a state where the man that is leading the oppositional public outbursts at the town meetings is someone who is on the board of a large healthcare insurance company and a man who when he was in politics was found guilty of taking illegal bribes from pharamcuetical companies. Talk about self serving hypocrits..

Traci - posted on 08/07/2009

Oh shoot! I just remembered! Girls, we better say no more, lest we get reported to the "fishy stories" bureau of the White House!!! ahhhh.... lololol

Traci - posted on 08/07/2009

Thanks, man! :)

Christa - posted on 08/07/2009

AMEN sister!! :-)

Traci - posted on 08/07/2009

I just saw something that said at its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and Means Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12 billion by 1990 (a figure that included an allowance for inflation). This was a supposedly "conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare actually cost $107 billion.



So, I think it's safe to say that whatever numbers the gov't gives us are BS anyway. There is over 80 billion in Medicare fraud alone in the US and they want to take over the whole kit and kaboodle? No wonder MOST of the country is against it and can smell a rat. Nothing in their proposal addresses the cost. Why is tort reform off the table? Maybe because the trial lawyers pump so much money into the DNC perhaps? Like I said before, they're all crooked. Why give them MORE power? If your teenager wasn't being responsible with the money you give her, would you then give her MORE? Heck no you wouldn't...unless you're a bad parent! Quit being bad parents, let them know they need to get their act together before even THINKING about taking on something new. This is asinine.

Brenda - posted on 08/07/2009

excuse my typos...I meant "Reagan"

Brenda - posted on 08/07/2009

Christa - you also forgot that in order to build more 'green cars' *cough*, they are shipping JOBS overseas to Korea and Japan since the technologies to manufacture those types of vehicles are really only accessible there. THAT was money well spent - stimulate another country's economy. This whole administration is one big fat monumental lie! Politics as usual - I pray we get a Regan after this "Carter" is out of office in 3 1/2 years!

Christa - posted on 08/07/2009

Sara and Mary, you didn't listen to me. I want them to answer all of my and others questions. They won't do that. If they would do that and if they could convince me it's better, I'd jump on board in an instant. When they start living by the "transparency and accountability and bipartisanship" they promised I will start giving them a chance.

On the bailout, the car companies filed bankruptcy AFTER we gave them tax money, yeah that was money well spent. And they can only correlate 150K jobs to the stimulus. Not to mention an unemployment rate much higher then they promised if we passed the stimulus. They do not have proof that it has done anything, or that they needed 787 billion. And the banks were stabilized with the TARP funds passed under Bush, not the new stimulus. So who's got blinders?

Rebecca - posted on 08/07/2009

Quoting Christa:

I don't want to mis-speak so I don't want to get into too many specifics especially since they haven't voted on a final bill yet, but I understand it that it will be an option to create competition for the private companies and they will require that all people MUST be insured. Which includes requiring ALL companies no matter how big or small to provide insurance to it's employees. Many feel that this will force small companies to put their employees in the gov't plan since they can't afford private and eventually you will get more and more people into the gov't plan laying the ground work for a single payer system.

And yes some companies can deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions, but that is usually voided if you haven't had a break in coverage more then 90 days and pregnancy doesn't count. That's how it is in my state and the laws may be different in each state, I'm not sure.

There are definitely MANY things that need to be addressed, but we aren't addressing them. I do think there is a better alternative that would include gov't regulation, making the doctors/insurance companies be up front with costs, and giving the patients the ability to "shop" a procedure around to get the lowest costs, just like you would to get your car fixed. The way thing are now you have to go to a doctor that's in your insurance companies network and you can't ever get an estimate for how much it will cost you upfront. I think if you put some more transparency in the system then you get capitalism working for you. Like before I had my daughter I called the doctor, the hospital, and the insurance company to try and get an estimate on how much a routine vaginal delivery would be and NO ONE would give me a number. How do you budget for a bill that you have no idea how much it will be?

This is all I'm saying there are people out there with other ideas and until we sit down and have a discussion with all the different ideas and play with numbers etc, how can we know that this is the BEST idea? It may be, but I need more facts and other ideas considered and shown why they wouldn't be good. They are trying to push this through so fast and if it ends up not working then what? We will have a HUGE mess to try and clean up. You wouldn't make a large purchase/decision for your family without weighing all your options and learning the cost etc, would you? I wouldn't and I won't do it for our country either.

Our country is so polarized that I don't think either side actually wants what’s best for us citizens, I think they just want to be right and the other side wrong. Obama campaigned on being a man who "can cross the aisle and work bipartisan", what a LIE that was. He recently said that he was growing tired of the republicans and will push this through without them. Hmmm, maybe listen to some of our ideas and come up with a bipartisan solution like you promised. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but if he continues with this path he will be a one term president. People voted for change and so far that is not what we've gotten, we've gotten politics as usual.

My husband works for a fairly small business, they have insurance but it has changed several times due to increase and his boss says if it goes up anymore they won't be able to afford it so if the govt. makes them have it I am sure they will go with the govt. plan because private insurance will be so outrageous. It is allready too expensive. Another problem we have is where we live there is only one hospital within miles and miles so they charge  you whatever, treat you however, there is no competition. I am not sure what the solution it is but it is sure no a government run plan, I wouldn't trust them to run a lemonade stand much less be in charge of something as important as healthcare.

Sara - posted on 08/07/2009

Here's the thing...improving our current system will save money just by making it less wasteful, that's one way it will pay for itself. Inefficient and poor quality care costs the nation at least $50 to $100 billion every year. Billions more are wasted on administration and overhead because of inefficiencies in the health care system. And given current trends, this problem will only get worse as health care spending is expected to double within the next decade. Improving the system will basically pay for itself...and there's LOTS of evidence to support this idea. Don't you get it? The system we're currently in COSTS YOU MORE MONEY than what they are proposing.



I honestly DO NOT understand what the huge problem the Republicans have with this. They're using scare tactics and misinformation to get people to think this is a bad idea. What do you propose we do instead? Something needs to be done NOW and quite frankly I just think the Republicans want to block this from happening because 1) they want to see Obama go down, and who does that help? And 2) Their campaigns were partially financed by health insurance conglomeratese and prescription drug companies who will not benefit from this bill. I've read all your arguments here and I still don't understand why exactly you oppose healthcare reform. My guess is if it were something proposed by a Republican Administration you'd be on here talking about what a great idea it is.

ME - posted on 08/07/2009

I'm not sure how you can claim that the stimulus has been a "waste" with car companies and banks (almost all) posting profits again, many banks beginning to pay back their loans with interest, new unemployment #'s slowing dramatically, manufacturing jobs coming back in many areas of the country, etc...are things perfect yet? No, but it seems like Republicans want Obama's administration to be as a big a failure as Bushes was SO bad, that they are unwilling to recognize his amazing successes after only a few months...blinders indeed...



As far as the single payer option goes...I'm am certain that it will lower costs overall and in the long run...We pay a crap load for my husbands employer sponsored insurance, and still wound up paying around 6,500 dollars OOP for the birth of our first child (over the 40 weeks + hospital costs, hospital alone was 3400). The last time I had to go to the ER a few weeks ago, I sat there for 4 and a half hours waiting for a urinalysis just to be told what I already knew when I phoned my OB at 7 pm in the evening. A WCC for my 18 month old son costs me around 200 $ after insurance because our CO doesn't cover all of the shots (concidered elective). Even though we have the best ins. his co. offers, we only get 90% of services covered, imagine what would happen to my family if one of us got seriously ill, or needed a long stay in the hospital! I don't need to imagine it, because I know several folks who's medical expenses have caused them to go bankrupt. If my hubby earned an extra 1,600 dollars a year (that is taken out of his check for Ins) we could afford to pay a little more in taxes...especially if it saved us several more thousand dollars in medical costs a year, AND helped insure some of the 47,000,000 Americans with no coverage...who, believe it or not, we are ALREADY paying for. It's completely unreasonable to ignore the obvious benefits out of fear of the unknown...I know the devil you know is not as scary as the devil you don't...but I really can't imagine anything being worse than what we have now!

Isobel - posted on 08/06/2009

My best friend had a baby 9 years ago that came down with bacterial meningitis. This poor baby had to live at Sick Kids (a world renown hospital) for 4 months... As a result of suffering from this illness, she is now facing legs that will not grow beyond the length of a 5-year-old,she has "burn" type scars all over her body, she has a full set of dentures- (that's right, 9 years old)



Every time she spikes a fever, she is instantly admitted to the hospital for IV antibiotics, her shoes (which cost around $1200 per pair) are covered, so are her dentures...she never has had to wait once (for more than 30 minutes) to see a doctor...all this is covered by taxes, that we, for the most part don't even notice (substantially lower than insurance rates) The government takes advantage of economies of scales and their huge buying power to negotiate lower prices.



...had this happened in your country, her family, my family, and everybody else who loved her would be bankrupt...I know you love America and god bless you for it but...I am grateful not to live there...and our doctors are still in a very high income bracket.

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

WOW I wrote a novel, sorry about that I guess I got carried away. :-)

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

I don't want to mis-speak so I don't want to get into too many specifics especially since they haven't voted on a final bill yet, but I understand it that it will be an option to create competition for the private companies and they will require that all people MUST be insured. Which includes requiring ALL companies no matter how big or small to provide insurance to it's employees. Many feel that this will force small companies to put their employees in the gov't plan since they can't afford private and eventually you will get more and more people into the gov't plan laying the ground work for a single payer system.



And yes some companies can deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions, but that is usually voided if you haven't had a break in coverage more then 90 days and pregnancy doesn't count. That's how it is in my state and the laws may be different in each state, I'm not sure.



There are definitely MANY things that need to be addressed, but we aren't addressing them. I do think there is a better alternative that would include gov't regulation, making the doctors/insurance companies be up front with costs, and giving the patients the ability to "shop" a procedure around to get the lowest costs, just like you would to get your car fixed. The way thing are now you have to go to a doctor that's in your insurance companies network and you can't ever get an estimate for how much it will cost you upfront. I think if you put some more transparency in the system then you get capitalism working for you. Like before I had my daughter I called the doctor, the hospital, and the insurance company to try and get an estimate on how much a routine vaginal delivery would be and NO ONE would give me a number. How do you budget for a bill that you have no idea how much it will be?



This is all I'm saying there are people out there with other ideas and until we sit down and have a discussion with all the different ideas and play with numbers etc, how can we know that this is the BEST idea? It may be, but I need more facts and other ideas considered and shown why they wouldn't be good. They are trying to push this through so fast and if it ends up not working then what? We will have a HUGE mess to try and clean up. You wouldn't make a large purchase/decision for your family without weighing all your options and learning the cost etc, would you? I wouldn't and I won't do it for our country either.



Our country is so polarized that I don't think either side actually wants what’s best for us citizens, I think they just want to be right and the other side wrong. Obama campaigned on being a man who "can cross the aisle and work bipartisan", what a LIE that was. He recently said that he was growing tired of the republicans and will push this through without them. Hmmm, maybe listen to some of our ideas and come up with a bipartisan solution like you promised. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but if he continues with this path he will be a one term president. People voted for change and so far that is not what we've gotten, we've gotten politics as usual.

Jenny - posted on 08/06/2009

A cheaper alternative or just an alternative so you can't be turned down for insurance? I've heard some companies won't insure for pre existing conditions and things like that so is it basically gauranteed coverage?

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

Yeah and the guesstimate has been a trillion dollars. You do the math.

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

Jenny, he wants to offer a government option as an alternative to private insurance. Beyond that it's very complicated and they haven't been real open and honest about it.

Jenny - posted on 08/06/2009

I don't see how they could really know what anythnig would cost untill it's done deal and the bills come in. Up to that point it's just a guesstimate.

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

Laura, absolutely only an idiot wouldn't. That is my problem they won't be honest about the cost. If they could come out and say it's going to cost each taxpayer X amount of dollars on average then we could have a conversation, but they won't say that. They won't even admit what the total cost of the bill is, estimates are close to a trillion dollars. We just spent close to a trillion dollars on the stimulus package that so far has been a waste. Money doesn't grow on trees and someone is going to have to pay all these bills and it will be our children and grandchildren long after Obama is long gone.

Jenny - posted on 08/06/2009

In layman's terms what excatly is Obama proposing? I don't really understand how it works.

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

I'm fully aware of what NEEDS to be done, that's what I'm saying the current plan doesn't address these needs. They don't say how they will lower our healthcare costs. It's an incomplete plan and other things need to be looked at. This is a band-aid for a stab wound. All the Dems/Obama have their blinders on and won't look at any other options. They want to push something through without answering all the questions and looking at all the options. Like I said if they start answering some of these questions, starting with how they plan to pay for this plan, then I will start giving them a chance. While they keep bullying us, because they currently have control, I will fight them any way I can. They won't have control long if they keep this up. The approval rating for this plan is dropping with each poll, if they continue to ignore us they may find themselves no longer in office.

Isobel - posted on 08/06/2009

Economy of scale...this is a subject I've learned about in business school , a very capitalist notion, you may be happy to hear ;)...it states that the more you buy, the less it costs to manufacture. This is what makes Walmart and Target so successful (they are actually able to set national prices based on whether or not they will buy) They become able to dictate prices to the supplier, instead of the reverse, dramatically lowering costs.

Purchasing power is also very closely closely related...the larger you are, as a consumer, the more power you have to negotiate prices. (instead of one person trying to get a good deal , or even a group of thousands, you would have a group of over
300 000 000 people demanding the best and lowest price. This will,potentially, save your country trillions of dollars.


As a HUGE buyer, the government does, (in many countries besides Canada),acquire things much cheaper than a smaller insurance company would be able to.

Plus...at least the government pretends to have somebody's best interest in mind...the insurance companies seem to have no qualms about telling you the bottom line. ($$$)

I am curious...If you were paying the same amount that you now pay to an insurance company in taxes, but instead of just you, 5 people could be covered...would you be interested?

Jenny - posted on 08/06/2009

The money is already there and already flowing. It has to be put to better use. You already can afford to provide healthcare for all of your citizens. First you need to get all medical suppliers to cut costs if they want in on the public system. Drug costs too, drugs are way cheaper in Canada for the exact same drug. The free market is where the problem lies, right now it's every company for themselves and no one gives a crap about the bigger picture.

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

What you Canadians fail to understand, the government has not explained how they are going to lower the costs. The have not explained how any of this will make MY healthcare costs go down. All I see is paying for the 47 million who already don't pay a dime into the system, so who is going to pay for them? I am and they will raise my taxes to pay for it, while I continue to pay MY own current healthcare costs. So MY costs are going to go up. Healthcare does cost money and we need to lower costs so that everyone can pay for themselves. I do not have extra money laying around to pay for my neighbor’s healthcare.



This is my point. Something needs to be done, but the government is not answering the BIGGEST question, where is all this money going to come from? The only thing I see is it's going to some from those of us who are ALREADY paying too much for health insurance. When the Dems/Obama start answering that question and answer it well, I will start to consider their plan. Until that time I will fight it.



I understand you like the way it works there, but what people fail to get is it's comparing apples and oranges. We can't just do what you do, we are different countries.

Jenny - posted on 08/06/2009

Yes Laura, if you look at my post above I posted a link that shows how much per Capita is spent. The US already spends more per person than Canada does for less coverage.

JL - posted on 08/06/2009

Well I have been on the military healthcare system since I was born...no complaints here. The people who I do here complain are usually the people who don't take the time to understand the system and become proactive with their medical care. Few of them realize that in practicallly every military hospital there is a patient rights office that you can go to and get things dealt with effeciently if you don't like how your being treated.

Isobel - posted on 08/06/2009

I think up here we pay way less per month in taxes than you guys do for your insurance bills...just a thought (redirect the same money)

Christa - posted on 08/06/2009

Truthfully I'm not listening to the propoganda. For me it's a simple math equation, how are we going to pay for it? The only answer I can see is with higher taxes and even more money out of my pocket.

Isobel - posted on 08/06/2009

For the record...I think most Canadians know more about how the American systems work than we do about our own...your media is pretty wide spread.

Most of the things I read up on these boards about our health care system is false (clear and unadulterated propoganda) don't believe everything you hear.

Traci - posted on 08/05/2009

It's not only Sylvester (BF) who has expressed the glories of single payer and his intention of that goal, but good ole Mr. Transparency himself has said that as well. But, of course, that was before he was elected, in front of a fawning audience of AFL CIO people. Now that he knows how many Americans are against that system, he flat out lies to their faces. Lie lie lie lie....Jan Shankowsky, Barack Obama, Barney Frank, Jacob Hacker...they are spelling it all out for us.



And then tries to label 52% of the population as "angry mobs." Hmmm...wasn't he elected with a 53% majority? I guess that was just an angry mob election or something...



This is all so friggin' ridiculous. They are lying, they are cheating, they are corrupt, they are the same. Keep on giving those low lives more and more power, it's just what they need...

Jenny - posted on 08/05/2009

Well that makes you a lot different than other conservatives lol. I've been told many times how horrible our system is by people on these boards. Noone I know has expereinced this terribleness so I just want to make sure that UHC is represented properly to the public.

Christa - posted on 08/05/2009

That's fine, but it's not first hand experience. I would never sit here and tell you how things are in your own country, since you would obviously know better then me.

Jenny - posted on 08/05/2009

Lol, I have access to all the same information you do. The internet has no borders. I also know many people who do live there and fill me in on experiences.

Christa - posted on 08/05/2009

That may be true, but it's only one of MANY examples of the gov't running things poorly. Also I don't mean to be rude, but you don't live here so you really have no idea how OUR gov't can or can not run things.

Jenny - posted on 08/05/2009

You can't send a package over the internet. Good old fashioned stamps were a big revenue genertor for the postal service. With that diminished due to email and online banking they cannot compete on the package delivery service as they do not have the funds to back up the service levels. Anyways that is off topic but wanted to get the point across that it a deeper issues than being poorly run by the government.

Christa - posted on 08/05/2009

Jenny, I was talking about UPS and FEDEX in the second line.



Mary, I think it's logical to look all the way down the road. So the gov't is allowed to create their option, since they are the one's who make the rules don't you think it would be very easy for them to force everyone into their plan, eliminating private companies? I wouldn't call it doomsday at all, it's not allowing the stepping stone to the final destination. Because once that stone is set it's a lot harder to fight. Why do you think pro-choice people won't budge in late trimester abortions or any other compromise disallowing some abortions? For the SAME reason. They see it as a stepping stone to a place they don't want to be. I wouldn't call planning ahead as "logical fallacy", have you ever played chess?

Jenny - posted on 08/05/2009

"Our postal service is having problems because of the internet, "



Two lines later "They aren't going out of business because of the internet."



?

ME - posted on 08/05/2009

My point is that UHC is NOT on the table right now...I'm sure that there are some left of center dems out there who see this as a possible future outcome, but if the single payer option is a terrible plan and doesn't work, do you REALLY think they'd ever manage to get UHC passed? That's pretty "doomsday" IMO...threatening a domino effect of things to come that NO ONE is currently talking about. It's also a logical fallacy (called the slippery slope fallacy)...lol...but I'm sure that won't get me anywhere with you.

Christa - posted on 08/05/2009

Our postal service is having problems because of the internet, but also because when you do need something shipped most people use FEDEX or UPS because they do it better. They aren't going out of business because of the internet. One more example of how private companies do things better then the government. Take the blinders off.

Christa - posted on 08/05/2009

Mary, what Doomsday? All the questions I asked are legitimate and need to be addressed. It's not very smart to not think about possible problems down the future. TO just jump into this system without proper planning and brainstorming would be stupid and reckless and could leave us in a much worse situation then we are in now. What are you all so afraid of? Why can't you take the blinders off and look at some other options?

ME - posted on 08/05/2009

Our postal service is going bankrupt due to the internet!!!...LOL...it has nothing to do with the government...but that IS pretty funny...

Jenny - posted on 08/05/2009

Of course they say it is going to be bankrupt, they've been saying that about our system since the 60's. It's a scare tactic.



The way it works here is if a doctor wants to bill the public system they must bill for a set cost for everything under the sun. They are not allowed to charge on top of that or they are out of the system. Since we have no private system they have to bill to the public one or they are unemployed. Beauracracy and unions are where we lose alot of money. People doing hospital laundry are demanding 25 bucks an hour and things like that. Then there is the suppliers of the products gouging the system since the government is footing the bill. Everything from tongue depressors to bedsheets to stethoscopes are being milked for every penny they can get. That's the beauty of Capitalism even in a Socailist system. No our system is not perfect and there is not one out there that exists but noone goes bankrupt in a UHC system and even though we have to share everyone has access to care. Our Children's Hopitals in Toronto and Vancouver are two of the top facilities in the world.



Is the postal service losing money due to email, presure from FedEx/Ups etc. decreasing demand for services or poor government mangement? Is cutting staff due to the economy? Our forces are begging for people up here. Our postal service is also suffering but I believe it is due to the reasons above and not reflective of the government. We also were not impacted as hard by the economy because of our social safety nets and stricter control of the banking and lending industries. My house never even lost value and I do not know one person who became unemployed.