Welfare Encourages Dependency

Jen - posted on 08/20/2011

While I think far too many people believe that the majority of the recipiants are abusers, I think the system itself is set up in a way that allows it. We're in a quandary for example when benefits increase per child. You have a person who had an accident (despite using birth control) and now has another child they can't afford so they truly need the additional help. But then you have the people who already don't think about the long-term cost of children who get pregant for too many reasons that have nothing to do with kids and sadly may only be in it for the money.

How do we fix the latter without abandoning the former? I don't know.

Jessica - posted on 08/19/2011

So it looks like everyone agrees on two things. something needs to change, and we can't just cut it off. we need it reformed. Something to think about. what if the government just butted out entirely? I have given it though and have studied human pathology(independently). It WOULD sort itself out, however I would say they stop charges land taxes and requiring permits for businesses. they would have to butt out entirely. it is just a thought. I know it sonds fooliah... but it was a random thought at way past my bedtime. I do not, necessarily think it should be like that but... the government actually hurts us with it's meddling at times. somehow, at times, it creates those lines at the welfare office.

Teresa - posted on 07/14/2011

Dyan - there are very few people that truly can't work. Is it harder for some to work? Yes. Impossible, no. My daughter's child care is paid for by the state except for her co-pay but the job actually goes to a licensed child care provider so no job lost there. In fact, if more people were working there would be more child care jobs available.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2011

I think I agree with Teresa L on this. What if welfare supplemented existing jobs? What if you had to work or go to school in order to receive supplemental funds? What if we created organizations like Growing Power, where people could get training in farming - especially urban farming? There are probably a lot of things that haven't been tried and I say let's try 'em and see what works. I believe in work and work can give people an enormous amount of dignity and sense of purpose. That is one area the welfare system fails miserably (and there are other areas as well). I think we can all agree that the current system stinks and definitely needs some reforming (or a lot of reforming).

Krista - posted on 07/12/2011

My apologies, Jennifer. I misinterpreted your statement about getting rid of government welfare, free lunches, all that stuff, and thought that you meant getting rid of it BEFORE having a replacement solution in place.

Jennifer - posted on 07/12/2011

I don't recall saying we should just scrap it without an alternative in place. This is a civilized nation, so no we don't let people starve here.

Sara - posted on 07/12/2011

The real problem is how underfunded and therefore underadministrated the programs are. I mean, if you look at most local and state governments, the first place they cut budgets when it's needed is from welfare programs and education. So, you've got all these systems in place where the people who administer it are underfunded and undermanned, they have huge caseloads and quite frankly, are just trying to do the bare bones minimum to keep things going. In that scenario, there's no room for someone to take a serious look at it and say "Ok, here's what we need to do in order to fix it". I know here, the suggestions that have been made get shot down because it's a tantamount to political suicide to support putting more money into programs that people perceive as failing...no one has the balls to step up to the plate and do it. I agree that the system is flawed and needs to be fixed to get people off of welfare and get them back into the workforce, but the problem isn't inherently based on the people that get the welfare, it mostly lies with the set up of the programs themselves, IMO.

Rosie - posted on 07/12/2011

you know i think both sides are saying the exact same thing just different ways. the system DOES need fixing, badly, however i can't see giving this system up until there is a solution other than charity. it's not going to be enough. i'd love to see a solution to help weed out the deadbeats.

Krista - posted on 07/12/2011

Nobody's saying the system doesn't need fixing, Jennifer. But to scrap it altogether while something else is figured out?

That would rather put a kibosh on your claim that "we don't let people starve here".

Jennifer - posted on 07/12/2011

Yes there some people who cannot work because they are disabled. There is a lot of disability fraud as well. We should not support a system that allows for so much waste. Our society needs to have some programs in place but the ones we have now have been a big failure in terms of waste and even accomplishing their stated objectives. No one is suggesting that those who will need ongoing support be left out of the plan, just get those who can work doing something productive. People need to do something valuable. We are not sheep and we dont respond well psychologically to being paid to sit on our duffs as many people receiving benefits do. Some are just complacent, some think the govt owes them because they are a minority so it's fair they should live on someone else's dime. The people who used the benefits they way they are intended no one has issues with. But how dumb it is to allow ourselves to keep paying into a system that clearly does not work?

Jennifer - posted on 07/12/2011

I suggest that private organizations are in a much better position to understand and react to community problems. Charity organizations to a tremendous amount of good. I am not saying that no govt should be involved but I support local oversight of any tax driven social programs. Furthermore the Ameican people are the most generous in the world giving more of their own money to charitable causes than any other. We don't let people starve here. The food bank in my community, the fith largest city in the US, is run so well that it is a model program. It's a private Catholic charity that accomplishes way more than any govt program. It feeds people, clothes them, helps them find housing, counseling, and work programs. The fed welfare program does not help people get off welfare. Of course I should have mentioned that my vision of our society includes getting off the backs of business owners to a point where our economy is healthy and more people are working and enjoying some financial security. If we destroy our ability to provide work for people they certainly won't get off welfare and we will bankrupt ourselves paying for it.

Rosie - posted on 07/11/2011

what would you suggest instead jennifer? cause i honestly don't see any other way. like krista said charity isn't going to work. people give to charity right now, and we still need welfare. do you think that's gonna change? especially with how many people feel that those who are poor and in need are worthless unless they get a job?
what other alternatives are there out there that republicans support, i'vehonestly never heard of any other than the charity one.

Krista - posted on 07/11/2011

Yeah...who cares about starving kids. Fuck 'em. My money is mine, mine, mine.

/headdesk.

I've said it before and I will say it again: private charities, while all well and good, can NOT be the lone social safety net. People give to what they WANT to give, and the less popular causes/cases get screwed.

Whether or not someone gets a meal that week should not be subject to a popularity contest.

Jennifer - posted on 07/11/2011

Getting rid of govt welfare would in the end be great for our society. A gradual elimination of govt welfare, free lunches, all that stuff would allow localities to decide for themselves how to help those in need. First it would drastically reduce the number of people who abuse the system and secondly opportunities for fraud would be almost gone. The federal govt does not have the right to take your money and give it to someone else. You can see how well it has worked out with them in charge of welfare.

Rosie - posted on 07/11/2011

some people simply can't work teresa. what to do about those? i'd also like to know what people are going to do about childcare? wouldn't the government be paying for that as well? wouldn't that also be taking jobs away from people as well?mayeb adding more people to the welfare line?

Teresa - posted on 07/11/2011

There needs to be an alternative to welfare. How about, if you can't support yourself, you can collect a check but you must work for the state/government? My father in law did it after WWII when jobs were scarce. Once people get used to working every day, they will be more motivated to work for themselves hopefully.

In illinois you can collect a cash assistance if you are poor but you have to work 30 hours a week to get it. That is incentive because hey, that is a crappy hourly wage.

Rosie - posted on 07/11/2011

i agree. but like laura and krista said how we solve it is the problem. getting rid of welfare isn't going to solve anything. i dont' understand how anybody could think it would.

Teresa - posted on 07/11/2011

OMG he's right...now what's he going to do about it.

Child care is available for practically free in our state if you are poor and trying to work. Finding jobs that will even pay your gas money however is a huge problem. How is a single parent suppose to get off food stamps and medical assistance when the jobs available are minimum wage? Sure she could go back to school for 4 years and then try the job market again. How does she live til then?

My daughter is in this situation now so I know it intimately. She borrows our gas guzzler to drive to a job that only pays for her gas. Her son goes to day care that the state provides funds for. It is really stupid. SHe makes NO money after gas and being away from her child all day and can't even pay a bill. She lives in subsidized housing she is about to get evicted from because she doesnt make enough money to even pay the meager fee. But I told her she has to keep working til she finds something better. I don't agree with sitting around doing nothing even when it is fruitless.

She plans to go back to school in the Fall on a pell grant but she will still be working at least part time and will never see her child.

Krista - posted on 07/11/2011

Exactly, Laura. I don't think ANYBODY would disagree that the ideal system would act as a temporary safety net for those who can work, but are momentarily down on their luck, and a permanent safety net for those who are just physically or mentally incapable of working.

But, it's how to get there...

To make a gross generalization, it seems as though the liberals are kept awake by the thought of someone who NEEDS welfare, not getting it. While the conservatives are kept awake by the thought of someone who DOESN'T need welfare, getting it. Those two separate concerns seem to be the driver behind the major difference in proposed approaches.

Isobel - posted on 07/11/2011

Absolutely, the system needs to be fixed so that poverty is no longer a vicious cycle...the dividing question is, however...how do we fix it? I think that's where most of us disagree.