White Value System

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 07/11/2011 ( 264 moms have responded )

12,224

26

238

Your thoughts?

Zion Church of Christ
THE WHITE VALUE SYSTEM
Zion Church of Christ adopted the White Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee, chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981. Dr. Manford Byrd, our brother in Christ, withstood the ravage of being denied his earned ascension to the number one position in the Chicago School System. His dedication to the pursuit of excellence, despite systematic denials, has inspired the congregation of Trinity United Church of Christ. Prayerfully, we have called upon the wisdom of all past generations of suffering Whites for guidance in fashioning an instrument of White self-determination, the White Value System. Beginning in 1982, an annual White Value System - Educational Scholarship in the name of Dr. Byrd was instituted. The first recipient of the Dr. Manford Byrd Award, which is given annually to the man or woman who best exemplifies the White Value System, was our brother, Dr. Manford Byrd. These White Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Whites are gathered. They consist of the following concepts:

1.Commitment to God. "The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become White Christian Activists, soldiers for White freedom and the dignity of all humankind. Matthew 22:37 - Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

2.Commitment to the White Community. The highest level of achievement for any White person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the White Community. I John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother [or his sister], he is a liar; for he that loveth not his brother or sister whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

3.Commitment to the White Family. The White family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society. Those Whites who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate. Deuteronomy 6:6-8 - And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

4.Dedication to the Pursuit of Education. We must forswear anti-intellectualism. Continued survival demands that each White person be developed to the utmost of his/her mental potential despite the inadequacies of the formal education process. “Real education” fosters understanding of ourselves as well as every aspect of our environment. Also, it develops within us the ability to fashion concepts and tools for better utilization of our resources, and more effective solutions to our problems. Since the majority of Whites have been denied such learning, White Education must include elements that produce high school graduates with marketable skills, a trade or qualifications for apprenticeships, or proper preparation for college. Basic education for all Whites should include Mathematics, Science, Logic, General Semantics, Participative Politics, Economics and Finance, and the Care and Nurture of White minds. Matthew 22:37 - Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind.

5.Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence. To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the White Community. We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor. Ecclesiastes 9:10 - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

6.Adherence to the White Work Ethic. "It is becoming harder to find qualified people to work in Chicago." Whether this is true or not, it represents one of the many reasons given by businesses and industries for deserting the Chicago area. We must realize that a location with good facilities, adequate transportation and a reputation for producing skilled workers will attract industry. We are in competition with other cities, states and nations for jobs. High productivity must be a goal of the White workforce. II Thessalonians 3:7-12 - For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labor and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

7.Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect. To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources, instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others. Self-discipline, coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of White Progress and a model for White Youth. I Peter 1:4-7 - To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

8.Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness." Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the "talented tenth" of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor's control. Proverbs 3:13-14 - Happy are those who find wisdom and those who gain understanding, for her income is better than silver and her revenue better than gold.
Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:
◦Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
◦Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
◦Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of "we" and "they" instead of "us."
◦So, while it is permissible to chase "middleclassness" with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method - the psychological entrapment of White "middleclassness." If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our "voluntary" contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, White people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.

9.Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the White Community.

10.Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions.

11.Pledge Allegiance to All White Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the White Value System.

12.Personal Commitment to Embracement of the White Value System. To measure the worth and validity of all activity in terms of positive contributions to the general welfare of the White Community and the Advancement of White People towards freedom.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Tah - posted on 07/13/2011

7,412

22

357

LMBO...okay so I'm reading through..must admit I haven't read it all...people think that black people what choose to be disadvantaged....I really wish people would pay attention....does anyone know where the saying across the tracks comes from????...because blacks were literally made to live across the tracks. They could come to the white part of town, nurse their children, wash their clothes, clean their houses, but had better carry their black bums back across the tracks to their dilapidated homes and stay there. If you dared be black lawyer, doctor, etc and want to move into a white part of town where the education system was better, tough..banks wouldn't lend to you, housing associations wouldn't sell to you and your drake baby better not come and try to sit next to my child..I mean in what 1956 or so, a black man who was in a grad school..the only black student as it were, because when told to desegregate, they would let maybe one or two in and then call it deseg..HAHA...anywho..he could attend class..but his desk was in the back and off to the side so that he was not near the white students. Then he had a separate area of the library, lunchroom and bathroom...let's look at the 80s...are the Reagan fans aware that when he got into office he began to try and systematically undo all of the progress blacks had made by trying to shut housing programs, work programs etc..

People are so cluless as to how deep down racism goes and how much it still exist. The leg up that white people still have and then come and say things that are clearly ignorant, racist, naive and offensive and then want to argue. How they are none of these things..that's why I'm LMBO..it's all you can do...

Btw..besides my grand mom being Indian..I'm black...lol so now there is a black person on here..lol

Krista - posted on 07/11/2011

12,562

16

842

This was actually copied off of a churches website, a church that runs a day to day organization right here in America, word for word, this is the docterine that they are teaching....... except their document actually says BLACK VALUE SYSTEM instead of White Value System.

So, I wanted to discuss what people thought of this. I simply put 'white' where every 'black' word was - a simple switch, nothing else, and posted it here to see how people reacted.


Don't tell us you had no motives. We're not idiots.

If you had no ulterior motives, and just wanted to discuss what people thought of the original source, you would have simply posted it as it originally was, and asked us what we thought about it. We could have then had an open and honest debate about race and the idea of celebrating minority races but not majority races.

But instead, you dishonestly made those changes to the post, trying to manipulate us into some sort of "gotcha". Were you trying to paint us as reverse racists, who are harder on Caucasians than we are on African-Americans?

It wasn't clever and it wasn't cute. Considering how eager you are to lecture others on debating protocol, it's rather interesting that you would post such a dishonest debate here.

If you want to debate race, that's fine. But please do not play manipulative games and insult our intelligence.

Krista - posted on 07/14/2011

12,562

16

842

if some white person had faced discrimination all of his life at the hands of a black person would they be justified in judging and hating all black people?



Would they be justified in behaving in a discriminatory fashion towards white people? No. Regardless of our thoughts and feelings, we can always control our actions.



However, can I understand that this white person in question might have very prejudiced feelings and thoughts, due to his experiences? Well, yeah. I can.





There's a difference between saying that prejudice is okay, and saying that you can understand why someone has a prejudiced viewpoint.





And I don't think that the way to make hate go away is to tell black people to just stop hating white people. Hate isn't good, but damn, Dyan...if anybody has a good reason to hate, it's them. The way to make hate go away is for US to no longer behave in ways that make them want to hate us.

Karla - posted on 07/14/2011

1,555

48

76

Another “wow” thread. First I want to address the OP and it’s premise. I would say that yes, it does sound really bad when the word “white” replaces the original “black.” And many people are wondering why a black church (aka community) would do that. My feeble attempt to explain would be: For years, not just a few years, not decades, but for centuries, the black communities only had themselves to depend on. They could not trust their government, or law enforcement officers, or most white people (and at one time their owners) to help them. So I’m gonna guess that it became the norm to encourage community (yes based on race) help; hence, justifying the lingo of “The Black Value System.” And the reason Black Colleges were started is because Black men/women were not allowed in any other colleges. The reason there are Black churches is that Blacks were not welcomed in other churches. One of the reasons we have black history month is that blacks were written out of history for all those centuries.

Jennifer writes: “The disenfranchisement of black men is the direct result of two things one the replacement of the role of provider by the man by government programs and two the decline in value of the traditional family in the black community (and society in general).” - So, you’ve studied this and know it to be fact? I’m going to say that this issue is too complicated for me to address, but I have read enough to know you missed the mark with your assessment of the situation. Your statement implies everything was great before government programs stepped in to help. Prove it…just, really, look it up, cite a reputable source and prove it. Try reading this excellent book: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Like-Me-50th...

Jennifer writes: “So how is perpetuating a huge lie about America - that we are innately evil and oppressive and that blacks must rise up against whites, something any of us should condone?” - I just wanted to say that the original OP (in its original “black” form) said nothing about “blacks must rise up against whites.” I believe it said “Commitment to the Black Community”

Jennifer “I explain the percentage of blacks in prison the same way I explain the very disproportionately high number of black children in foster care - the breakdown of the family” - Again, really? I mean I know the break down of family is a big problem in America today, but then, that would mean more whites would be in prison too, wouldn’t it?
http://www.phillytrib.com/tribune/newshe... (Ironically the fact about fatherless black children that was also in the “The Marriage Vow” that Bachman and Santorum signed is in this article, but the explanation is more complex than in “The Marriage Vow”)

Nichole: “ITS NOT inherently white peoples fault, nor directly related to racism or some systematic oppression that there is more black people statistically in jail compared to how many are in this country versus whites” - It is society’s problem. That makes it an issue for everyone. And I do believe it is directly related to racism that the percentage of black people in jail is much higher than any other race. See above linked article.

Jennifer: “We are clearly not a racist society so why should I be ok with anyone systematically preaching to a group of people that we are?”
- Did the original document preach that society was racist? Or just warn people to avoid becoming “captive?”

Another thought provoking read is “Confederates in the Attic.”

Jennifer writes “Do I really need to explain why rich people are not in gangs? Maybe they are too busy working to join a gang...” - Good lord Jennifer, do you even have a black friend?

NAACP vs. NAAWP – Well certainly the KKK is not the counterpart of the NAACP
http://www.kkk.com/ Yup, they still exist, and not just to advance white folks.

Tah - posted on 07/13/2011

7,412

22

357

I live this daily..people who have been in communities with me may have heard this before, but my family, friends, coworkers etc experience this all the time...do yourselves a favor and get educated on it..look up studies that show companies have been discriminating on blacks for years through the hiring process..if you name was shakia but you had the same exact resume as Amy, she was over 30% more likely to get the job than you..

I've been told by patients they didn't want me because I was black, or when they ask for the supervisor or charge nurse, if that myself..they will wait for someone else..

The mennin my family are stopped all the time and were even told when riding together in a car that they asking to be stopped...you know, with that manybblacks in a car..my nephews are hard workers, attend college..social science major..business, criminal justice/pre law major, who excepted to uc berkely but didn't go, English, they grew up together but if the ride home from a family gathering, they are profiled..didn't get a ticket..just ran all of their names...profiled

This conversation has been closed to further comments

264 Comments

View replies by

Krista - posted on 01/03/2012

12,562

16

842

Yeah, this thread has been rather trainwrecky from start to finish, so I think it's time to put it to bed.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 01/03/2012

12,224

26

238

Move it to one of the free chatrooms on the web then

Tah - posted on 01/02/2012

7,412

22

357

well pamela you never know, this thread usually lies dormant for awile then out of nowhere someone comes in with something constructive to say.

Pamela - posted on 01/02/2012

1,496

104

41

So maybe this thread should get shut down? I don't think we can really add anything more here.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 01/02/2012

4,455

6

379

OT-I wish COM guidelines /rules would drop for like 24 hr >;-}

Tah - posted on 01/02/2012

7,412

22

357

"I guess now all I can do is laugh at the complete absurdity of your comments!!! here goes....ROFLMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I guess I will never cease to be amazed at the number of times that I, as a federally listed white girl, will be called racist due to the fact that I believe other races, even "whites" should stop expecting handouts. However, if it makes you all feel better to cater to those who actually refuse to help themselves (and I'm referring to those who don't have legitimate need...who are nothing more than freeloading varmint on society) then y'all go right ahead. As for me, I'll continue to help those who are legitimately in need while telling freeloading varmint to get off assistance and work somewhere, create a job, something to further better themselves and society. "







Translation:I have nothing constructive whatsoever to add to this conversation. i have no information to counter anything you ladies have provided and i hope my sarcasm will make me look better and maybe even feel better about myself.



COM needs a sad button...

Deedee - posted on 01/02/2012

25

7

1

I guess now all I can do is laugh at the complete absurdity of your comments!!! here goes....ROFLMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I will never cease to be amazed at the number of times that I, as a federally listed white girl, will be called racist due to the fact that I believe other races, even "whites" should stop expecting handouts. However, if it makes you all feel better to cater to those who actually refuse to help themselves (and I'm referring to those who don't have legitimate need...who are nothing more than freeloading varmint on society) then y'all go right ahead. As for me, I'll continue to help those who are legitimately in need while telling freeloading varmint to get off assistance and work somewhere, create a job, something to further better themselves and society.

Pamela - posted on 01/02/2012

1,496

104

41

Did you know salt can actually aid in the healing process? It hurts, but it also heals. So add salt Karla, add away!

Regarding the Occupy Wall Street Movement - it has been primarily a conservative hack job that paints OWS as a bunch of dirty hippies wanting a "hand-out" (ooh, there's that word again). There is a video over on Republican Moms that shows only the most outrageous characters of the movement - and is presented as hard evidence that the protesters are unmitigated idiots. Are there idiots within the movement? Sure. There were and are idiots in the TP movement (one of them is running for highest office). OWS is not nearly as diffuse a movement as the media loves to paint it as - and it is made up of very average people, many of whom lost their jobs not because they were slackers but because the companies they worked for wanted to pare down. Many of those companies by the way ended up with record profits after letting go hundreds of their employees. This is a movement of desperate people who want to work. They're not slugs, they played the game right and they lost. But they lost because of forces bigger than themselves wanted them to lose.

It's easier to always blame the victims of greed and I think in part it might be because we ourselves are often guilty of that same greed. We like the system (until we are hit with it ourselves). We don't want to change the system because we buy into this myth that we too will one day be hideously rich - never understanding that those in power will never let us be that. They'll hold it before us like a carrot and we'll will follow them right into the very pits of hell, but don't think for one moment we will achieve those levels of wealth. It's a club and we're not invited. The doors are closed tight to the likes of you and I.

But you what? Many of us don't want to be fabulously wealthy. We just want to make enough to save for our retirements, have a decent home, put our kids through college and have enough food to eat. Most of us want a system that has some compassion on those less fortunate and we sure as hell don't want the robber barons of yesteryear rising from the dead and forcing us (and our children!) into jobs that don't provide a livable wage. I personally like democracy - I'm not overly interested in an oligarchy because that my friends is really bad for this country.

Barb - posted on 01/02/2012

3,372

15

197

Wow DeeDee, i never thought you were an ignorant racist until you posted. If more than one person has labeled you a racist (and i totally do and obviously others have as well) chances are, you are one. You spout your opinion like it's the truth or a fact when it isn't even based on reality. No one can dispute what you said because it would be like disputing if it is winter or summer in Narnia.

It isn't a matter of making friends on here, but once you post ignorant drivel like you did, finding respect isn't going to be easy, and if people don't have a modicum of respect for you, they aren't going to take anything you say as "fact" or "truth" especially without any outside objective links to back it up. And your opinion hardly counts as the "truth" or a 'fact'

As far as the history books go, i read that paragraph 4 times and it is so nonsensical i don't even know where to start. You just talk in circles. If they would teach 'actual' history? so you admit they aren't teaching the true history, but then you complain they are changing things to pacify people? which people? the ones that want true history to be taught? Who are you to say what is truth or fact that needs to be in history? You wouldn't know the truth if it punched you in the face.

Common sense isn't believing your opinion is fact.. common sense knowing you don't piss or spit into the wind.. a knowledge that is common.. your knowledge isn't common to this reality. (that's the fancy way of saying you are talking out of your ass)

Tah - posted on 01/02/2012

7,412

22

357

Karla, i dont see where you are spreading salt, i see where you are spreading information that some people may miss. Now my shoulder was hurting last night so i could only type in short post. I as well wanted to address the history being watered down for a lack of a better interpretation. Yes in public school, as Karla pointed out, this is the case more often than not. It was in college that the history classes were more in-depth and spend time exploring history in its full measure. It gives you access to more than just a chapter on Eli Whitney and his cotton gin, it goes into why his Cotton gin was such an instrumental invention and how it affected slavery. It is accompanied with documents, clips, interviews, both written and video of those who were instrumental in movements for and against slavery. It doesn't just deal with African American history but that of The other so-called minorities and their interactions with each other. I don't see where it would hurt at all for anyone to take one, especially people who are so sure they understand the current state of affairs for minorities. It can only serve to help them better understand by seeing the road it took to get to this state.



Again Karla has covered the occupy movement and the reasons behind it. There isn't much more to add to what she has said. It is about fairness and the state of affairs the world is in with the rich staying rich and getting richer while the poor get poorer through the loss of jobs, homes and the security they have worked their whole lives for and while their childern can not find the employment and life that have worked towards so diligently.



In reference to the racist issue, yes it was the attitude and wording that led me to find what was said racist, in your initial post you made no attempt to differentiate and made very sweeping and general statements. You say that you are tired of being labeled a racist. This would lead one to beleive that you have been called one on other occasions and saying that you have minority friends does not in any way make you exempt from being a person with very serious prejudices who is very vocal concerning them. It reminds me of the comic who said if you know how many friends of a different race you have and feel you have to end a conversation with that tidbit of info..you may be one..lol..sorry i thought he was funny.



Have you ever thought that maybe it's the delivery and those sweeping generalizations that you use when speaking with people which makes people label you as such? If the shoe fits comes to mind, but i won't say that yet, i'll say that maybe you truly don't realize how you come off that makes people see you as such..Do you think that may be the problem? Not just with race but with classes of people as well. you seem to have an issue with those who need assistance. Noone cares for those who use the system as a handout, and though i have known people who used it as such, it is there for assistance to those who need it especially now in a time where an occupy movement is necessary.

Karla - posted on 01/01/2012

1,555

48

76

Ouch Niki, you're not bad at that yourself.



You choose to take it as you like - did my comments hurt you in some way? If so, I apologize. If you want to debate some point of what I said go ahead, I'm listening.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 01/01/2012

12,224

26

238

Well at least you know you are spreading salt :)

Karla - posted on 01/01/2012

1,555

48

76

At the risk spreading salt on this healing thread…I feel the need to point out a few things.

Deedee:
“There are plenty of people (have you all NOT seen the occupy movement) who expect a hand out based off the hard work of others.”

That’s really NOT what the occupy movement was about. It was NOT about getting a hand out, it was about the ever increasing gap between the ultra rich and the middle class. It was about the fact that Businesses that have failed were bailed out without being held accountable (see 2008 economic crises/ 2009 bailouts) while many middle class Americans have lost their jobs, homes, and all savings because of the actions of those very Businesses.

I don’t think anyone here is saying everything is rosey, quite the opposite actually. If you read through all the posts here you will see what I mean. (I’m agreeing with you here, see?)

I always hear about these women who are having tons of babies to get more welfare money, but I have never met one. I’m sure there are a few deranged people who would do this, but I do not believe it happens in epidemic proportions.

Concerning taking a history course: I think you may be thinking of history books in public schools whereas many college history classes have much more thorough history resources and much less bureaucracy controlling the content.

“Wow, Niki, I didn't know you were hated this badly.”
That to me only sounds like sarcasm insomuch as it cuts down people who disagree with Niki. Sorry if you are saying you weren’t insinuating that, but that is what I got from your comment.

Then you say
“Having said that, you all go ahead and think me a racist...or even call me one.”


I’m toggling “strong” to emphasis my point here…
It’s the “you all” part that lumps everyone into one entity that really doesn’t exist – it’s the same mentality that creates prejudices in the first place – lumping all people of a certain race, religion, nationality, political party, etc. together as one mindset and condemning them all. That’s exactly what we as a society need to avoid.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 01/01/2012

12,224

26

238

Well, at least it's been interesting lol :)
I still love Jen's comment the most though. Really puts it more into perspective!

Pamela - posted on 01/01/2012

1,496

104

41

Yeah, nursing has a pretty high burn out rate. My goal is to pursue a master's degree - maybe pursue a degree as a Nurse Practitioner though I just learned they're thinking about making that a doctorate program. Good luck in psychology - I have a good friend who works in that field.

Tah - posted on 01/01/2012

7,412

22

357

i have been in the field for 12 years, since i was 19, i was a MA before i went to nursing school...im currently transitioning into Psychology...im beat. i love my patients and ill keep my license current but i am suffering from burnout and my poor body,...i have to start Physical therapy...again...lol...this time for my shoulder and neck and i actually have to get one of those crazy long shots in my shoulder..its a great field but there are days when your body hurts and your mentally and emotionally drained and want to know what in the world you were thinking...lol..good luck in school, 2 co-workers have gotten the same shot and our unit manager can't feel her fingers or toes and is going in for surgery...2 others are in line with me for PT...its a beast...you have to want to do it...really and truly

Pamela - posted on 01/01/2012

1,496

104

41

:) - Hey how long have you been in nursing? I'm in school for nursing currently (well, more accurately on the waiting list. Hopefully I'll get in in the fall).

Tah - posted on 01/01/2012

7,412

22

357

see i don't recall making it private...i will do that...did i say i passed my computer classes on a wing and a prayer....lol

Tah - posted on 01/01/2012

7,412

22

357

lol, dont i know it....i checked and i dont have any banned users so it may be a COM glitch....ill email admin in the morning trust me they aren't here on a sunday...lol...we will get you in, i had a member awaiting confirmation andi was thinking, "i didn't make this private, why does she need approval"..who knows how long she has been waiting...lol...gotta love COM

Pamela - posted on 01/01/2012

1,496

104

41

You have it listed as private rather than open - maybe change that.

Pamela - posted on 01/01/2012

1,496

104

41

Lol - maybe I was...who knows? It's pretty easy to offend some people - without even trying.

Pamela - posted on 01/01/2012

1,496

104

41

Ai yi yi. Niki - this was an awesome conversation but I fear it's degenerated somewhat. Be at peace everyone.

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

Damn...I think I've learned more from Tyler Perry's characters than I'd ever learn from you. At least his characters depict real life. However, go with your first instinct and just stop talking to me...that's how this problem solved

Tah - posted on 01/01/2012

7,412

22

357

well this is beating your head against a wall. this is why i started not to post because i knew from your first post it was futile, not because you are right, but because you are close-minded and ignorant to many things and obviously glad to be so. you say you are willing to learn from others as long as they are willing to learn from you, if only you had something to teach. im sorry you have taught me to go with my first instinct and not waste my time on people who have no intention on having an adult conversation, but who talk just to hear themselves and pat themselves on the back thinking they have made some kind of great point when they are really just proving how much they don't know and how much they don't care to learn. I guess if we actually hear something someone else was saying it may mean we were wrong and that just won't do now will it? As i said before, pure ignorance....

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

There are plenty of people (have you all NOT seen the occupy movement) who expect a hand out based off the hard work of others. I don't know where the hell you all are living, but apparently here in the south things are different. Blacks are certainly NOT kept from going wherever they so choose. If this type of thing is happening in the area in which you live, then it needs to be changed. As for the handout thing, well, I guess that some of you are blind as bats. I said NOTHING about those who honestly need help. I said NOTHING about those who are on assistance of any kind that are using it until they get a change in life. I am, for clarification, speaking about those who REFUSE to better themselves...and NONE of you can say those people don't exist. Those who are in genuine need probably wouldn't have a problem with my opinion about handouts. I have problems with those, regardless of race, who sit on their butts and expect for things to be given to them without getting off their butts. Get real people. We don't live in a bubble where things are friggin rosey. I live in the real world. I see young women having children simply because they can make more money off assistance than they could if they went to work. I see more men relying on their wives/girlfriends for support instead of being a MAN and getting a job. Yet, they all expect something for nothing. The last I knew, being a mother was called a job....NOT simply poppin' out babies. The last I heard, a guy taking care of his family was calle a MAN....not those who sit on their asses.

As for me stating that Niki was hated...OMG...can you not recognize sarcasm? Sheesh......even Niki, whom I just met, can recognize that through the manner in which I word things.

As for learning from others, well, I am well capable of doing such...as long as others are capable of learning from my opinions...and facts also. I have many friends....from every race with whom I am friends. I have NO problems with them as we have a mutual respect for each other. I'm NOT in this group to make friends. I'm in this group to give MY opinion just as all of you. I learn from those who actually have something to teach. NOT from those who feel superior to me simply because they feel they are more educated than I. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Education doesn't imply common sense. If you don't want to post, then simply stop talking to me. Just as all of you, I don't back down. I don't care if you all think I'm right. I care that I have a right to voice my opinions just as you all.

Also, as for taking history classes, well, I might just do that if the companies who published said books would stop changing the actual history in order to pacify people. The things people don't want in "history" have been taken out simply because it made others "look bad". Crap, history is full of bad things. Without learning all the bad, it is doomed to be repeated. Without TRUE history, all that is learned in class is a lie. To be honest, I figure most of you would be in support of ACTUAL history being taught...being that "whites" are blamed for all the bad things that have happened to every race in this country.

Having said that, you all go ahead and think me a racist...or even call me one. I really don't care. You all can think of me as you wish. I'm just surprised every day, that those who call themselves open-minded, progressive, whatever the label, turn out to be some of the most closed-minded on the planet.

Pamela - posted on 01/01/2012

1,496

104

41

Okay everybody, let's put on our big girl pants and be civil. We can disagree without throwing up on one another.

DeeDee: I do not know any progressives who think Obama is the Messiah. In fact, if you read anything progressive you'll quickly see that many progressives regard Obama as a...how did one site put it?...a mole for the conservatives. I don't necessarily agree with that - I think he's had enormous opposition from the far Right and it's amazing he's been able to get anything done. My point is many progressives are extremely unhappy with him (not all, but many). I for one would prefer this man in office than any of the current candidates from the GOP who rank, in my humble opinion, as nuts. But that's just my opinion and you, DeeDee, are certainly entitled to yours.

In regards to race, I don't feel that as a white middle-aged woman who has really never experienced racism (though I have experienced sexism but that's another whole thread) that I can come in and say much. Back further into this thread, Karla mentioned people telling their stories - I for one want to hear those stories because I can learn from them. People like Tah are people I can learn from. My sons have never experienced what her male relations have experienced (and I hope they never do). I think we should fight for a society where no one goes through that regardless of race, gender, or planetary alignment. Frankly we need one another - all of us, disadvantaged, advantaged, the whole nine yards. Let's all maybe try avoiding the use of generalities - the issues really aren't that simple. I'm really getting tired of hearing the accusation that the poor just want "handouts." I think that's false or at least very misleading - some might, sure, but not the majority. What people really want is not a "handout" but perhaps a hand-up. That's different. Everybody needs a hand-up at some point in their lives, and nobody gets where they are without a hand-up from someone. I think it's important that we remember that that which is done to others will be done to us. So we're all in this together.

So let's listen to one another and maybe even learn from one another.

Tah - posted on 01/01/2012

7,412

22

357

also i don't see where anyone said you didn't have a picture up, so if you are referring to me, i said i can't tell by your picture what your background is, and no matter what it is i would not have judged you. My view of you comes from the things you have said, not the color of your skin. if that makes it clearer for you...

Tah - posted on 01/01/2012

7,412

22

357

thank you Karla, and DEE DEE, states that this discrimination is not going on any longer when there was not a month ago a church that banned interracial couples from their services and a white woman who put up a sign stating that whites only were allowed in the pool in her complex after a black family came to swim. There are many races who were discriminated against but when blacks were able to gain employment those same "minorities", rioted and destroyed blacks communites and churches stating that blacks were taking from their jobs and homes by finally having an end to slavery and being able to work as hired hands. There were movements to move Blacks to liberia and Lincoln even set aside 100,000 to do this in the originial Emancipation Proclamation for the comfort and well-being of whites. Did you know that if the confederacy had taken Lincoln up on his offer concerning their slaves then the Emancipation Proclamation would never have been signed, heck he even gave them 100 days to come back to the union, had they done that we may still be in chains or not far removed from it since the civil war was not about slavery but bringing the confederate states back into the union.



Blacks were not welcome in communities, churches, stores, etc so yes that is where the sense of depending on themselves and setting up churches and organizations was born. When blacks tried to start a Free Mason lodge they were not permitted and had to reach out to England to be endorsed. There are many many stories like this. Blacks had to depend on their communities to survive. Laws were unevenly written to deny blacks their rights and some and if you want to be honest about it voting is still a very new right since for blacks.



Again, i will mention the many studies done that show persons with ethnic sounding names are discriminated against. These studies are conducted when exact matching resumes are sent out. half with ethnic sounding names such as tamika and raheem and the other with non-ethnic sounding names such as Mary and Tim...though the resumes matched exactly the non-ethnic sounding names received interest for employment at an upwards of 30% more than the ethnic sounding names. There are many examples of "minorities" receiving unfair treatment and it happens everyday.



I was asked by a cashier in 7-11 this past summer if i would be paying with EBT(food stamps) as i stood there in my scrubs with my name badge and title to buy a lunch and water for work while the white woman in front of me was asked if she would be using "cash or credit". Noone wants anything that they haven't earned they want equality which is still a distant dream and listening to you cements that because there are many people like you who would want to simplify it down to lazy minorities who just want something handed to them. I have common sense, book smarts and street smarts growing up in Philadelphia and to be honest people without common sense irk me sometimes.





Ignorance is not referring to intelligence. The context in which i use it in your case is that you are ignorant of many facts in history, which i can't blame you because African American history is not taught in great detail in the public school system and i myself had to take at least 2 AA history classes along with United States History classes to learn just how deep it runs in college. I think classes of this nature would serve you well. Also some cultural sensitvity classes as another mom on here has taken and suggested to others. This may help resolve some of the ignorance you possess on the issue . You keep saying that i know you are right, well i don't, but when i find something you say that i do find to be correct, you won't have to tell me, i'll tell you.

Karla - posted on 01/01/2012

1,555

48

76

Deedee:

I’m not sure where you got the notion that anyone hates Niki… I have read this whole thread and I’m not seeing it. As a matter of fact I believe this was one of the better conducted debates on CoM. Also, I don’t see Niki complaining. So who are you really defending?

The whole thread is quite thought provoking and includes some important personal stories that illustrate racism and how people today are dealing with it. I did not see examples of people of any race feeling they are owed anything other than fairness in how they are treated; isn’t that what we all want or even expect?

“Messiah in charge?” Really? Fact: The only people I’ve heard speak of the President as such are Right wing Limbaugh or Glenn Beck followers. Fact: Even though I am liberal and proud of it, I have never thought of Obama as a god, and I know of no other liberal or democrat who has. Agreeing with someone’s politics is not the equivalent to worshiping them and IMO it’s judgmental of you to put it that way.

You say, “Any person who expects a handout while sitting on their butt ticks me off,” I find that most people who state things like this haven’t really studied the nature of these poor people. Many people on assisted living are in that position either because of mental or physical debilitation. I would agree that some people abuse the system, but I think it’s a much smaller percentage then some would have you believe.

I would recommend you read through the whole thread, but incase you don’t have the time in inclination I will repeat something I said in this thread:

“For years, not just a few years, not decades, but for centuries, the black communities only had themselves to depend on. They could not trust their government, or law enforcement officers, or most white people (and at one time their owners) to help them. So I’m gonna guess that it became the norm to encourage community (yes based on race) help; hence, justifying the lingo of “The Black Value System.” And the reason Black Colleges were started is because Black men/women were not allowed in any other colleges. The reason there are Black churches is that Blacks were not welcomed in other churches. One of the reasons we have black history month is that blacks were written out of history for all those centuries.”

BTW the local tribe in my area has education programs at the library, has a pow-wow open to the community, and is very much in the media with their programs of education and awareness. A good Public Relations person goes a long way.

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

I also would like to say that churches as a whole should be involved in their communities. If "white" churches were involved in strengthing "white" communities/businesses/or any other "white" organization, that church would be labeled racist....and probably would sustain vandalism of every kind. The federal goverenment would probably even try to close the doors.

Just keep this in mind, if you want racism to disappear, then start it at HOME.....ALL races are responsible for doing this. There is NO one keeping anyone down any longer. YOU are responsible for what YOU and YOUR CHILDREN believe....not the government, not school, not church. If you are racist (and if you support this "trinity church.....you are racist), then YOU are part of the problem. IF your kids are racist, then YOU are part of the problem because YOU taught them racism. I have no problem with cultural pride. I do, however, have issues with other races being able to be proud of their "race" while at the same time belittling those who are "white" for showing pride in their "whiteness". If you can't handle "snow white" being proud, then you shouldn't voice YOUR pride either.

Now, since someone else brought up Native Americans. I'll state this...as fact. The entire month of November is Native American Heritage Month....where is the media coverage for this? There's also a Native American Music Award program....where is the media coverage for this? You all wanna scream that black and latinos are still victims of discrimination, then I sugges that you only look at cable channels. There are channels designated for blacks and latinos....BET, Telemundo, etc. Both cultural identities have music awards programs celebrating the accomplishments of those cultures. Both cultures have the entire month designated to them filled with media attention. January has MLK's birthday...a federal holiday. May has Cinco de Mayo. I have YET to see a federal holiday desiganted for the great Indian chiefs who suffered at the hands of this country's government.

Go ahead, though, and have your pity parties about just how badly you all are treated. I'm sure that you'll find someone who really gives a damn....mine is broken at the moment.

FYI: there's a distinct difference between someone being discriminated against due to skin color (and I can't stand that) and someone being discriminated against due to the continual ignorance spewing from THEIR mouths.

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

Furthermore, I hope that you all remember that this is the church that Obama attended until the teachings of Jeremiah Wright were brought to light by the media. The only reason Obama, and his family, left was due to media attention of the racist, and sometimes treasoness, teachings of this "church"

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

That link is proving that I didn't, in my ignorance, manufacture this information.

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

I'm also curious how it's possible to be a U.S. citizen who has loyalties to "the mother land". Y'all wanna keep on supporting the issues of this church, then those opinions are just at treasoness as this church is. If you are a citizen of the U.S., then you are to be loyal to THIS country.

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

Oh yeah....for anyone who claims that I don't have a picture up.....then what the hell is that above my posts?

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

I'm sick and tired of being labeled racist, ignorant, etc simply because I refuse to keep my mouth shut about things like this. Let me state, FOR THE RECORD, that I get on the nerves of whites also due to the fact that I won't tolerate the "you owe me something" attitude. That's what this entire thread is about...the "you owe me something" attitude. It just so happened that the original post was from a black church. Until any of you, posting comments o here, are willing to admit that this church (and those like it..whether white, black, latino, etc) is racist, then we really have nothing to talk about. I spoke truth based on some of the other comments on here. We all see those in "white trash" areas of town doing the same thing as those in "ghettos" or "barrios". I'm sick and tired of having to watch my manner of speech because it might offend someone or hurt someone's feelings. I may not be as educated as some on this thread, but I do have common sense. I know the shortcomings of whites. I know the shortcomings of Native Americans. Also, for the record, I'm a Native-English-German-African-Irish American. My race isn't even listed by the federal government.......Redbone.

I call Obama the "messiah in charge" due to the fact that people treat him as if he's some type of god. If you get offended by this, then I suggest that his supporters start treating him as a human.

Deedee - posted on 01/01/2012

25

7

1

First of all, I stated fact and you know it. We are all aware that there are freeloaders in every race. Any person who expects a handout while sitting on their butt ticks me off (regardless of race). Why is it that pointing out the problems of the so-called "disadvantaged minorities" gets one labeled ignorant, racist, etc? I'm proud that you, your family and friends aren't part of the problem. That's a good thing. If you're not part of the problem, then I wasn't talking about YOU personally in the first place. You know as well as I, that I spoke the truth. The entire post started because a NONAFRICAN-AMERICAN had the balls to post something from a black church and put "white" in it. Now, in all your educated wisdom, since I'm just ignorant and know nothing, When you are willing to admit that this black church is racist as hell, then you and I will have something to discuss. Furthermore, having a degree doesn't imply common sense, it only says "book smarts" .

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms