WHO IS BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA?

Pamela - posted on 07/15/2010

Lock arms ladies, pogo stick and start singing REM's "It's the end of the world as we know it, I feel fine!"

It's an '80's thing.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

Jen, they did release his birth certificate complete with embossed seal - honest engine. Diane, I think, doesn't believe that or thinks it's a fake.

The war on drugs is ridiculous. I think we should absolutely decriminalize particularly marijuana if not legalize it. Prohibition is proven to fail.

I had a lovely No Bull@#$% martini with all my superb girlfriends tonight.

ME - posted on 07/14/2010

I agree with Laci...I can't believe the President has not only continued with the debacle that is the war on drugs, but strengthened it...I totally disagree with him on that...

Oh...and everything you post IS propaganda, Diane...

Rosie - posted on 07/14/2010

i havn't read too much of what i've missed, but i will say that i agree with you diane, on the dropping charges against the black panthers. however, i have yet to hear obamas reasoning for anything-not sure i'd agree with his reasoning-but none the less i would like to hear his reasoning before i go off about it. and to me that doesn't make him racist, it makes him overly sensitive to black people . and you know i also agree with you about the new law in arizona. i don't worship at obamas feet, i find he is far from perfect, yet i know he's not the antichrist.

i simply do not understand how someone somewhere hasn't been privy to the information that you claim he hasn't given about his birth records. i havn't seen ronald reagans birth certificate, have you? did he ever make it available to the public? have you seen where he went to school at? how do you know for sure he is who he says he is? do you think that the powers that be just let whoever they feel like be president without checking their credentials out first? do you think just any joe schmoe off the street can claim to be an american citizen and just become president without the proper people actually checking to make sure they are one? what's the point of having the laws about citizenship and age and what not to be president if nobody checks on it first?
i fail to see how any of your postings are NOT propoganda. stop going to biased websites, and clipped youtube videos for your information. if you find something that you don't agree with-like the black panther thing-state your dislike for that, but for christs sake diane, stop listening to all the crappy propoganda that you hear. it pisses me off that people do all of this crap and distort facts so that people like you will believe them. and i'm not trying to be rude, i'm really not, but come on!! birther,antichrist, messiah rhetoric is completely ridiculous, and does nothing but distort from the REAL issues. -like healthcare, or gay marriage, or abortion, or immigration reform. those are things we can just agree or disagree on. i'd like to keep to issues like that in this country, instead of wondering if my president was born here or not-since I KNOW HE IS, it's been proven over and over again. it's a complete distraction, and a fucking waste of time.

Krista - posted on 07/14/2010

Passports! Good point. I don't know if it's the same in the U.S., but in Canada, you have to mail in your birth certificate (not a copy -- the actual certificate itself) when you apply for your passport.

Obama obviously has a passport. Which means that he would have sent in his birth certificate to them. And it was obviously not found to be fraudulent -- and I'd imagine they're rather strict about that sort of thing?

LaCi - posted on 07/14/2010

An international government to our federal government is no different than our federal government to our state governments. It's just another tier. Federal is supposed to keep the states in line, international keeps the nations in line. I really don't see the big deal.

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

"Nope, the state of Hawaii did release the birth certificate with the embossed raised seal."

Oh really? Well that must be very comforting for you Diane.

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

"Take the EU for example. It is an economic and political union of 27 states which are located primarily in Europe. Notice Switzerland will not become a member and want their own system and to be independent. There are laws they must abide by that are determined by the group. That means if we joined something like this they would be able to try our citizens, and to tell us basically what to do. We sign up for that and we lose our sovereignty."

No, we'd be sovereign in the same way that the individual states in the US are their own entities. Me, I honestly don't care as long as the rights under the Constitution remain. So I ask you, if we kept the rights under the Bill of Rights in force in a one-world government, would that be ok with you or do you feel that no matter what, we'd have a totalitarian regime?

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

"I have an original birth certificate and another piece of paper without a seal that is a live birth certificate.
The original has an mbossed raised seal stamped on it. If go to the court house of where you were born they will give you a copy of the sealed document. Many places do not consider the one without the seal as a legal document. I believe you need a raised one for a passport. You can get copies that are not sealed that cost less for genealogical reasons…but they are not legally the original.

Obama has never given to authorities one with a raised seal."

So the certificate I have which was used to get a passport back in 1987 when my father and I went to Ireland would not convince you I was a natural born citizen?

LaCi - posted on 07/14/2010

There were several things I REALLY disagreed with when it came to Ron Paul, definitely disagreed with his environmental views, but there was so much about him that completely amazed me.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

Yeah, Ron Paul was interesting. Both my husband and I seriously looked at him. In the final analysis, there were some things he said that worried me - but I tell you, I might vote for him if he runs for 2012. I'd vote for Kucinich too. Ron Paul and Kucinich. Now that would be a fascinating ticket. If Palin runs...ew.

LaCi - posted on 07/14/2010

"Everything I post you laugh off and won't engage in a conversation about it. Why? NONE OF YOU WILL SAY ANYTHING BAD, YOU WONT QUESTION ANYTHING ABOUT OBABMA OR HIS ADMINISTRATION. "

Here's something bad about Obama, he fully supports the war on drugs. There, I made a thread about it but I'll say it again. I was a Ron Paul supporter- which the republican candidates completely fucked up. Remember all those republican events in which he was either mocked or completely barred from attending? Yeah, fuck the republican party. I think you had a chance with ron paul. He had a HUGE following with the youth, from both parties. But instead they gave us palin and mccain? pfft. Fuck that. If you give me the choice between shit and shit I'll choose the least embarrassing piece of shit to represent me.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

Nope, the state of Hawaii did release the birth certificate with the embossed raised seal. Diane give it up. The dude, whether you like him or not, is an American citizen, born in the U.S.A.

If you check out our exciting Conspiracy Theory thread, you'll find a wonderful video showing just about every political leader who's been in the White House has talked about The New World Order. The Bilderberg Group is behind all of it. I think possibly the only ones who haven't have been Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.

Diane - posted on 07/14/2010

Pam that has not been proven. People take his word for it. Why wont he just cough up the original?

I called it propoganda for a good reason Mary. Because everything I post you and group say is propaganda. LOL
For crying out loud, it was a joke.

Everything I post you laugh off and won't engage in a conversation about it. Why? NONE OF YOU WILL SAY ANYTHING BAD, YOU WONT QUESTION ANYTHING ABOUT OBABMA OR HIS ADMINISTRATION.



I am going to post this about Obamas racist comments and actions. And I know what will happen....you will run and cry that it's propaganda. But here goes.

Is Obama racist based on what he has done in the past and lately the news about the black panthers?

http://www.creators.com/conservative/ben...

"Meanwhile, the Obama administration continues to ramp up the anti-white rhetoric.
This is nothing new.

Holder famously called us a "nation of cowards" on racial matters last year;
Obama himself called his white grandmother a "typical white person"
and blasted the Cambridge Police Department for racial profiling;
Michelle Obama wrote her Princeton thesis on how white folks were racists;
Michelle and Barack went to Rev. Wright's racist church for 20 years.
They've all just upped the ante recently.
Now Holder says that the Arizona law will promote racial profiling; Obama agrees with him; and Michelle Obama visits the NAACP, where she tells the black audience to "increase our intensity."


What's their motivation?

Supposedly, the Obama administration is simply fired up by the presence of the tea partiers, in the same way the KKK was fired up by the presence of voting blacks in the South. Black Democrats in the House have fabricated claims of tea partiers shouting the "n-word," even as they ignore white union members shouting the "n-word" at black tea partier Kenneth Gladney. The NAACP claims that the tea party is "racist," with NAACP
President Benjamin Jealous telling members that his goal was to pour "ice on the tea party."

Why drop the charges against this hostile and dangerous groups? Why did the BP get a free pass? Because they let these guys off the hook. It is outrageous.

I believe that race relations will be set back years because he is in office and that is to bad because our country was past due to have a person of color leading us. There are wonderful, fair and honest blacks that could and can lead our country.

Tell me.... like Shapiro asks...will all acts of minority violence be let off the hook by Obama? He does this and the whites that voted for him....will all but abandon him. I mean how much lower can one get in the polls?

Diane - posted on 07/14/2010

Jen said, “Going back to the birth certificate issue for a moment. I just looked at my own and it's almost identical in form and format. Does this mean I was not born in Buffalo, New York? Does this mean my whole life is a lie? Does your birth certificate look different than that one? If not, does this mean you may not be a US Citizen? I'm very confused by this.”

I have an original birth certificate and another piece of paper without a seal that is a live birth certificate.
The original has an mbossed raised seal stamped on it. If go to the court house of where you were born they will give you a copy of the sealed document. Many places do not consider the one without the seal as a legal document. I believe you need a raised one for a passport. You can get copies that are not sealed that cost less for genealogical reasons…but they are not legally the original.

Obama has never given to authorities one with a raised seal.

Krista said “Care to provide a legitimate, factual source for that assertion that most Democrats want a one-world government?”

It fits the worldview and voting records. They also support the North American Union. Gore also pushed the one world government. There are Republicans that also have been known to want one.

He said: “But it is the awareness, itself, that will drive the change and one of the ways it will drive the change is through global governance and global agreements.”

I am sure you have heard both Gore and Obama refer to Americans……as citizens of the world. In fact Gore said that cap and trade was the first step toward Global Governance. Obama feels the same way. They both from what I have read want to give control over to the UN.

Jen said, “I've never understood the fear of one-world government. Is it that so many places would be governed by one type of government? Does this mean that larger countries are worse in government than smaller countries?

Take the EU for example. It is an economic and political union of 27 states which are located primarily in Europe. Notice Switzerland will not become a member and want their own system and to be independent. There are laws they must abide by that are determined by the group. That means if we joined something like this they would be able to try our citizens, and to tell us basically what to do. We sign up for that and we lose our sovereignty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Un...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_Stat...

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

Here's another link regarding Obama's time at Columbia.



http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/col...



Here's the birth certificate:



http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227...



Snopes regarding Obama's citizenship:



http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/cit...



However, an interesting side note: John McCain's citizenship is undetermined by Snopes. McCain was born in Panama. Don't hear any bruhaha over that.



http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/ci...



People don't like the idea of a one world government because it makes them think of things like Anti-Christ and total governmental control. My problem with a one world government is because it will be controlled undoubtedly a corporate system that will will have it's tentacles in just about everything. Governmental control - doesn't bother me nearly as much. Corporations controlling the whole kit and kabootle, now that could frighten me.

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

I've never understood the fear of one-world government. Is it that so many places would be governed by one type of government? Does this mean that larger countries are worse in government than smaller countries?

Krista - posted on 07/14/2010

Jen, you make a good point. I used to work for a private medical insurance company, and it is common knowledge that there are caps and limits to what can be claimed. And I can tell you flat-out that the claims adjusters look for any reason they can find to deny a claim. Why? Because it's a business -- and profit is the main goal. So the fewer claims you wind up paying out, the more profit you make.

I can also tell you another thing. I have government-run insurance (i.e. my "socialist" health care) and I also have secondary coverage through a private insurance company. And with the private insurance company, I am three-quarters tempted to just take the money I am spending on premiums every month and stick it in a sock under my bed. They cover very little, they will find any excuse to claim that something is a pre-existing condition, and overall, I have received very little value for my money. With my provincial plan, I have no idea what portion of my taxes have gone towards it, but I can tell you that I have been hospitalized twice for several days each (once for a surgery and once when I had my baby), and neither time did I walk out with a bill for so much as a penny. So to me, it's been very much worth it.

Krista - posted on 07/14/2010

Certainly people voted for Obama because they are socialist and wanted it…most Democrats want a one world government as well.

Care to provide a legitimate, factual source for that assertion that most Democrats want a one-world government?

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

I work for a private not-for-profit insurance company. I don't think rationing is a goal and they treat me very well especially with my illness but...

There are limits. For example, most plans only allow 20 physical therapy visits a year (or contract year). When you're done, you're done. Even if you truly need more, you have to pay out of pocket at that point.

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

"I know how laws work. My point was…if you took a nation wide vote of the PEOPLE the health care bill would not have passed. Of course all the Democrats voted for it and the Republicans voted against it. There were representatives that voted to pass this that went against what the people wanted in their districts."

The problem with your point Diane, is that if you put most laws/bills to a popular vote they wouldn't be passed, especially anything that raises taxes on anything for any reason. No one wants to pay more taxes. This is not an invitation on tax debate, this is a specific response to your assertion. This is specifically why laws are not passed by popular vote on a Federal level. I have no doubt that if instituting a state religion was put out at a popular vote, Christianity would be our new state religion. That it is illegal per the Bill of Rights and would be shot down by SCOTUS (if we were lucky) but it clearly shows why popular votes aren't going to work. So your point is really irrelevant to how our country is supposed to work. The people we vote into office yes are supposed to do what we want but they also must take into consideration what is best for the population at large and the legality of the bill.

"No. I could ask the same of Obama he is the one who hates the Bill of Rights and the Constitution…he certainly is not following it."

Please provide specific examples. I really don't have the energy to watch a bunch of youtube videos. Would you mind terribly condensing it for me (As an explanation, I have a severe chronic illness that requires me to be on some powerful medications and sometime I can't focus on videos so your patience and kindness is much appreciated and I'm sure you're sympathetic to a sick mommy.)

My problem with your statement is that we saw some shocking disregard of the Bill of Rights by the previous administration, ex. The 'Patriot' Act, with little grumble from the right except to say that anyone who was against it clearly was both a non-patriot and a terrorist sympathizer. Now I am not one of those who blame all current problems on previous administrations unlike those who blame Bill Clinton for all of George W Bush's problems.

So if you could please tell me in a brief summary, in the Bill of Rights he 'hates.' and the specific actions taken against them.

Going back to the birth certificate issue for a moment. I just looked at my own and it's almost identical in form and format. Does this mean I was not born in Buffalo, New York? Does this mean my whole life is a lie? Does your birth certificate look different than that one? If not, does this mean you may not be a US Citizen? I'm very confused by this.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

Oh for heaven's sake Diane. Of course the Constitution is a flawed document. It was written by men. Particularly white, privileged, landed men. It didn't include women, Africans nor Native Americans. That's why there were these things called amendments. Henceforth it is a flawed document.

By the way, we already have rationing in our health care system. It's called the private INSURANCE COMPANIES. They ration constantly because they don't want to PAY.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/must-r...

Diane - posted on 07/14/2010

“I must apologize for this but your statement here makes you appear utterly ignorant of the way laws and bills are passed in the US. The congressmen and senators who passed the bill are also (like the President) voted in by their constituents and can be voted out if we dislike their opinion.’

I know how laws work. My point was…if you took a nation wide vote of the PEOPLE the health care bill would not have passed. Of course all the Democrats voted for it and the Republicans voted against it. There were representatives that voted to pass this that went against what the people wanted in their districts.

“Surely you're not suggesting we scrap the way our laws/bills are passed and replace it with popular voting? Shall we scrap the Supreme Court while we're at it?”

No. I could ask the same of Obama he is the one who hates the Bill of Rights and the Constitution…he certainly is not following it.

He obviously wants to repeal the 22nd amendment because he said this. Eight to ten years??????? LOL Of that Harvard education wasn't all that swift and he did not learn how long a presidential term is.

The Constitution a flawed document.





I read print news and watch television news…also internet. This is what all three have reported on the Health Care Bill. Certainly people voted for Obama because they are socialist and wanted it…most Democrats want a one world government as well. A good portion wanted it……but that is still not the majority.

Americans can now see that this health care bill raises costs, increases premiums, and government spending. Obama spends….spends……spends. And what Americans hated even more was how the bill went through…the process itself.

But I think even the health care bill looked different than many who were for it thought it was going to be. Hell his staff had not even read it all and could not answer questions concerning it. He has not kept to promises especially about the war. There are things in that bill that people do not want. We own a small business. When Obama says that there will be private health care, it’s a lie because the mandate will force employers to abandon their private plans. Government will audit books of all employers that self insure. A government committee will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive. So if your old and you need a hip replacement and you have cancer….they might decide you do not get it. They will also decide how much health care ya get a year. The Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued.

I have read most of the bill. They have made it virtually impossible as it is so long that your computer downloading it can freeze.

http://miamiphillips.com/change-your-lif...

Americans never wanted it.

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthp...

Can you ever discuss anything without profanity Laci? Man oh man.

Krista - posted on 07/14/2010

That's a good point, Laci. There are a lot of people that were unhappy with the health-care bill, but not all for the same reasons. There were many people who felt it didn't go far ENOUGH. Unfortunately, when doing polling, people weren't asked why they disliked it, so everybody just got lumped together, and then we have people like Diane saying that nobody wanted the health-care bill.

It just goes to show that polls are crap. I mean, didn't initial polls show that the likely presidential candidates would be Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani?

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

And Laci, you're right. The original bill would have been absolutely dandy but it was completely gutted by the right. I wasn't happy but it perhaps could be a step in the right direction.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

God that sucked, didn't it? That whole thing angered me so much because I worked as an intern Chaplain in a hospital and one of my jobs was helping people with their health care directives. It is a fantastic idea that allows people to determine what medical treatment THEY want done, particularly at the end of their lives. The epitome of FREEDOM of choice. But the far right once again ignored what was true and propagated a huge pile of manure. It is a blatant use of fear politics that is manipulative and underhanded. One word: Bastards.

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

Indeed! The death panel nonsense in particular made me very angry. I swear, no one in this country understands how private insurance works! The whole 'end of life' counseling was turned into something horrible which was an insult to every family that ever used hospice care and counseling!

LaCi - posted on 07/14/2010

It peaked about even, in support of healthcare reform. However, once the bill was modified into complete crap the support dropped. The bill turning into complete crap was the fault of the conservative side. I'd imagine the support would have been even higher had people not spouted off about the government killing off old people and mandating abortions. Fucking morons.

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

Actually, a good portion of the country wanted the Health Care bill but I've noticed that folks who are against it, completely ignore the ones who wanted it. We don't exist, I guess. We are figments of the imagination. I keep hearing "the American people don't want this bill" and I'm like, what? I guess those of us who voted for Obama, wanting the Health Care reform bill are not the "American" people? We apparently don't count? Or perhaps we're just not the "real American people" as Palin so eloquently stated?

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

"Not so. If he answered to us...that Health care bill would never have gone through. He is doing what he wants to do. We the people do not matter"

I must apologize for this but your statement here makes you appear utterly ignorant of the way laws and bills are passed in the US. The congressmen and senators who passed the bill are also (like the President) voted in by their constituents and can be voted out if we dislike their opinion.

Surely you're not suggesting we scrap the way our laws/bills are passed and replace it with popular voting? Shall we scrap the Supreme Court while we're at it?

Jen - posted on 07/14/2010

So the birth certificate released is unacceptable why?

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

I was helpless hoping...maybe...

Sigh.

ME - posted on 07/14/2010

I posted that one already Pam...she called propaganda...So much for facts and logic...

Pamela - posted on 07/14/2010

21 seconds proves nothing. I'm sorry Diane, but this is irrational and I can see that nothing will ever convince you of anything other than what you WANT to be true. Yes he has roots in Africa and roots in the U.S. His family is from Africa and in that sense, he is from Africa.



But at the same time, his family is from the United States and in that sense, he is also from the U.S.A. He was born on U.S. soil; the birth certificate is out there (people even on this forum - myself included - have SEEN IT); he is a U.S. citizen and hence can be president.



Do you really think that if any of your claims had even a modicum of accuracy, that the Republicans wouldn't have drummed this guy out of office? They would have spent billions in tax payer money (that's our money, by the way) to investigate and get this guy before Congress. We'd be currently watching official live court drama on CSPAN. Chances are if anything you presented here had even a hint of truth to it, he never would have been elected. Even Karl Rove -KARL ROVE - doesn't go where you birthers go. Why? Because it's so far amazingly LOOPY, that's why. Rove may be many things, but he ain't loopy.



So when you see Republicans standing before Congress and Senate doing their congressy and senatey things, questioning the validity of Obama's birth certificate, that is called political theatre. They can't do anything else because they have absolutely NOTHING and they KNOW it.



But! They want your vote. They'll say anything to get it. They'll have sex with you wearing clown noses and rainbow wigs if you'll vote for them. That's actually probably true of a lot of our politicians on both sides of the isle with the exception of maybe Russ Feingold and our much beloved and missed Paul Wellstone. Oh and Kucinich.











http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/more-bi...



You keep telling us that we have nothing which is absolutely Rovian. No Diane, you have nothing. The videos you post are - I'll say it again - NOT convincing because they're heavily edited to suit the birther cause.



If I am presented with reasonable arguments, facts, logic - those kinds of things - then I'm willing to hear out what you have to say.



http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/obama-a...



I double dog dare you to check out this last link.



Are you aware that you're propagating lies and slander about this man? I'm NOT calling you a liar or a slanderer because I think you really believe this stuff and nothing in this world will ever change your mind, will it? If any of this was true, they'd a had Obama by the balls. You might want to rethink your stance.

ME - posted on 07/14/2010

You know what Diane, The majority of the people don't always know what the right thing to do is. Look at what assholes in the country are doing to the LGBT population right now by denying them their rights...Look at history...Sometimes the President has to do things that aren't popular because the populace are bigoted fools. Do you think Lincoln did what was right...or should he have done what the people wanted...do you think the Civil Rights legislation should have passed, or do you think the people were right?

President Obama has family from another country, that says nothing about his own citizenship. I've seen his birth certificate...It is on line for everyone to see. Independent agencies have verified it's authenticity...it is nothing short of INSANITY for you and all the rest of the birther movement to keep insisting otherwise.

Krista - posted on 07/14/2010

I don't think you get to be the president of the Harvard Law Review if your grades are horrendous, Diane.

And I'm sure that "some" say he never went to Columbia. There are also "some" who say that the Earth is flat. And there are "some" who say that aliens are here on Earth and living among us.

Seriously. Using "some say" as a legitimate argument? That's weak.

Diane - posted on 07/14/2010

If I were president I would but I am not.

Where did Obama say he was from in this video?
Hawaii or Kenya?

What proof would I accept....his original birth certificate.

As I said I think he wont release anything educational information for two reasons. They would show where he actually was born, or his grades were horrendous. Some even say that he never even went to Columbia.

The fact is since he came upon the political scene...there has been a cloud of secrecy behind him that no other president ever has had.

A copy of live birth was posted on the computer. Since you all think everything about him is propoganda....why would you believe it either? LOL

"Wow...I bet this statement would SHOCK a lot of Muslim Americans!!!"

I am not talking about the Muslims in the United States. I am talking about the Middle East. Can people all around the ME worship openly whatever they wish to worship? Can you carry a bible around everywhere?
In America our laws prohibit a Muslim from Sharia law. Our laws are very different from theirs.

"ummm...President Obama answers to the American people WHO ELECTED HIM by a majority vote, and who will get the chance to vote again in just over 2 years..."

Not so. If he answered to us...that Health care bill would never have gone through. He is doing what he wants to do. We the people do not matter.

Just curious..ya think he would be elected in November if he were up for election?

That video is interesting...

Jen - posted on 07/13/2010

In addition Diane, what would happen if we wanted to see the transcripts of Thomas Jefferson's education? Oh that's right, he didn't have them but we accept him as a legitimate president - except in Texas of course but that's another story.

I would also like you to post your full medical record on COM to prove you're not a terrorist sympathizer. If you refuse, then I'm sure you're hiding something right?

Jen - posted on 07/13/2010

"Why won’t he release what every other president in history released...test scores, grades, transcripts? Why won’t he release the real birth certificate? Why don't what his family in Kenya say and what he claims add up?"

Why do you want to see his test scores? Why do you want him to release his medical records? That's private health information and per the HIPAA laws, no doctor will release it just as they won't release yours. I don't get this. A birth certificate was released.

Let me ask you a very serious question: What proof would you accept that President Obama was born in the United States? I don't want links, I don't want rhetoric and I really don't want religious commentary. I would just like to know exactly what evidence would you accept?

Pamela - posted on 07/13/2010

Yeah. I felt sad when he died because we need guys like this. My only complaint ever about Carlin was his language. The people who need to hear this truth won't listen because his cursing gives them the excuse not too. It's a harsh truth as well and it flies in the face of this patriotic and nationalistic rhetoric so popular amongst some. I think he could have been more powerful without some of his crudeness. But of course, that is what made George Carlin, George Carlin.

ME - posted on 07/13/2010

Oh. that's right...we have John Stewart...Phew...

ME - posted on 07/13/2010

Ah GC...who will tell us the truth now that you're gone??? Thanks for sharing this, I've been saying the same thing (minus the cursing) for a decade or longer...when will people start listening???

Pamela - posted on 07/13/2010

Well now, Mary, there's a point. To quote Jon Stewart, "BOOM!"

ME - posted on 07/13/2010

"Obama has no one to answer to. "

ummm...President Obama answers to the American people WHO ELECTED HIM by a majority vote, and who will get the chance to vote again in just over 2 years...

Pamela - posted on 07/13/2010

Diane, half the stuff you're accusing me of saying, I didn't say. You have a strange filter.

"That man you talk about who has owned the land for 250 years……..what right does anyone have to take it away, if he has ownership? What if someone came along and told you that you had to give your land over. And would they give him even if he would sell….fair market value for it? No".

I think you're missing my point here. That man is being threatened by a coal company called Massey Coal. It's not a new tactic. It's a very old tactic; time honored by companies who want what they want and will do whatever it takes to get it.

The government isn't threatening him - a corporation is threatening him - Massey coal wants his land so they can rip it apart and get to the coal underneath the ground. They have killed two of his dogs which is a not too subtle threat to his own person. Would they give him fair market value? Maybe but it doesn't matter. He doesn't want to sell.

"You think the government should have complete control over peoples lives, you want the wealth of some redistributed to the masses who have less……I do not".

Well Diane, we actually agree on this. I don't think that the government should have complete control over anyone's lives - but I do believe that we should have regulatory laws in place. I agree that "a valid point in the argument about taxing the rich more, is that they are profiting off of the stable system we, as a society, are providing them. You can't make that kind of money in other places in the world...places where your competitors can hunt you down and shoot you in the street. So, why shouldn't they pay more since they are profiting off of the stability that the working class is providing"?

"And what about personal accountability for actions"?

Again, we're in agreement. There is definitely a place for personal accountability. But you're presenting your argument in an "either/ or" framework and that I reject. It is not personal accountability or corporate accountability. It is both/ and. It is personal and corporate.

This from George Carlin. A bit crude but straight to the point. Worth thinking about.

ME - posted on 07/13/2010

"In Islam there is no separation of Church and State."

Wow...I bet this statement would SHOCK a lot of Muslim Americans!!!

ME - posted on 07/13/2010

I had a Christian student last night accuse all muslims of being woman hating terrorists, and in the same breath defend the murderer of dr. Tiller...they don't have to be forcing people to believe their religion to be crazy, or ill-informed...

"I believe in freedom. I do not believe that if I work and make a living that I owe anyone else anything. "

Freedom and the tyranny of the wealthy are incompatible...

Pamela - posted on 07/13/2010

Excellent point Sara.

Nobody is saying that the wealthy shouldn't enjoy the fruits of their labor. What we are saying is that the corporations and those at the top should not be allowed to run roughshod over the rest of us.

~Jennifer - posted on 07/13/2010

Well, Diane.....you DID care a few weeks ago. I figured I'd just point it out to you, considering it's about the only time I've been willing to address any of your ramblings of late.......



(as to whether or not you should care?.....well....it shouldn't have bothered you so much that you had to bring it up in the first place.)

;)

Diane - posted on 07/13/2010

“Diane not everyone is a christian the christians are just as crazy as the muslims i see no differents at all.”

Well could you tell me one place in the world today where Christians force people to believe in Christ?

Because I could give you many Muslim nations where people are forced or else. In Islam there is no separation of Church and State. I am not going to get into the differences in religion that would be off topic…you start a conversation on it I would be happy to share.

“Help me understand: why do you work so hard to defend the wealthiest of the wealthy? Are they more deserving? You're promoting a fallacy here: because the rich are rich (meaning they've worked hard) because of that, they morally deserve their wealth - even at the expense of others. To get as rich as Murdoch or Gates, you have to crush a few people to get there. Gates may be a philanthropist, but he screwed a few people on the climb up.”

I believe in freedom. I do not believe that if I work and make a living that I owe anyone else anything. Why do others have a right to what I have materialistically? Should Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Oprah……give almost all their money away, sell their homes, cars because everyone else does not have the wealth they have? How about you? You obviously are a socialist…how much more out of your income besides taxes do you give to others because you free guilty? Its funny that Obama the socialist lived in wealth. Why didn’t he live in a modest house and give most his earnings to the poor…you know even it all out? Did he really need to go to Harvard? Hell I didn’t get to go there….damn. I should be compensated. And Oprah has a gorgeous beach house in Hawaii….I do not have one of those either. Is that fair?

Why do you blame people who have made something of themeselves? Are you jealous or something? Why do you demean hard work? My grandfather was a horse and buggy doctor. He was from a poor family and he worked hard, saving for medical school, studying hard. He did not step on anyone to accumulate his wealth in later years. He deserved everything that came to him. He was not a couch potatoe, sitting back and mooching off of anyone. He worked hard at his practice. He also was a successful farmer and raised horses. He got everything from the sweat off of his brow…..and no one elses. For you to say that he should have given it all away to people who have less is not right. He was a giving man and did a lot for less fortunate people. But no government should say that because someone is more successful than another that they should make things equal is wrong. Our country did not become great because of attitudes like this.

FDR …yea who wants another court packing scheme….ENTER OBAMA…exactly what he is doing. He is doing the same darn thing. Obama however is craftier…and he is secretive about how he is doing it. And ya know what……he is getting whip lash just like FDR did.

If we are seeing a return of anything its losing freedoms. Government is taking over. That man you talk about who has owned the land for 250 years……..what right does anyone have to take it away, if he has ownership? What if someone came along and told you that you had to give your land over. And would they give him even if he would sell….fair market value for it? No.
“ Do we blindly defend the corporations that crush, grind, gnash and cut through our society with no regard for anyone but their own bottom line? Is that what we really want?”
And what about personal accountability for actions? Why do you continually blame big business and corporations for all our woes? Those corporations employ people and they make products that we the consumer use, products that we export all over the world. We have strong unions in this country that certainly go to bat for its members. And now Obama controls GM. Again his actions are unconstitutional. He converted preferred stock into common stock then took it over. He did the same with Chrysler. Obama will deny power but he would be lying again. If you can fire the head of companies…you own them. And that is what Obama did, fire the CEO. And if you think of it…unlike other CEOs of other big corporations who are held accountable to its owners…Obama has no one to answer to.
You think the government should have complete control over peoples lives, you want the wealth of some redistributed to the masses who have less……I do not.
“ Shall we embrace the twin gods of greed and avarice?”
You should embrace the things you find important. But you have no right whatsoever to control what others find important or embrace….AND you have no right to what they amass.