Will Democrats lose this coming election?

Dana - posted on 09/28/2010

Unfortunately most of us here are actually sane people but, out there...not so much. It would be great if we can all find a middle ground but, until the people on each side stop being so self righteous, it's not going to happen. :|

Christa - posted on 09/28/2010

I agree with you. The media is a big problem! But again we can't seem to come to agreements on here either. We've had ideological discussions and cannot come to an agreement. In fact it usually ends up in some sort of high school like drama. And we are all mothers, so in theory we should be the most capable of compromise. It really does make me sad. :(

Pamela - posted on 09/28/2010

But Christa - I don't actually think you're crazy. I agree - we need to move to the middle and cut out all this right/left stuff. The media doesn't help of course. They spur us on to increasing levels of insanity. My question is: who really benefits? Maybe we all need to stop fighting one another and start looking to the real sources of incitement. Just a thought.

Christa - posted on 09/28/2010

Oh my. . . . . .Sorry I can't keep up better but I just don't have the time I used to. .. . Anyway. . .



I'm going to ignore the racist thing, it's old, it's unfounded and it's just a way to keep us divided. Put the damn race card away already and maybe then race relations in this country will ACTUALLY start to improve.



Also it’s not a compromise when Liberals want A and Conservatives want C and we are offered A-. B would be a compromise. We were never offered B, we were never even allowed to bring amendments to get us closer to B. We were offered A- and then yelled at for not being willing to compromise. Obama knew he had his super majority and had no reason to let us have a voice. I do hope when we take the house and balance the senate back out he will be FORCED to ACTUALLY compromise and then we will see if anything gets done. I’m honestly hoping so.



I think you all hit it on the head. Conservatives think he's done far too much and the "progressives" think he hasn't done enough. So where does that leave us. Clearly conservatives want to go north and liberals want to go south, so how do we move forward in the same direction??? I have my ideas. . . It involves all of you and your like moving to Canada. :-P But in all seriousness how do we go forward? I know I don't want to do this pendulum every election, 2008 liberal, 2010 conservative, 2012 ??? Honestly I used to think I'm as right wing as they come. Well this forum and the current political climate has shown me that isn't true. While I agree with the extreme conservative values I also know that the only thing that will fix our country and truly get us united is somewhere in the middle, a bit to the right of middle of course. :-P We swung too far Left in 2008 and I do think we will swing too far right in 2010. Do you think we can meet in the middle in 2012??? Frankly I don’t know if we can. That’s why I started this group in the first place was to find out if there was some middle ground we could all agree on and well here we are, like a year later (I can’t remember when exactly I started this) and we are in the same place. We behave just like they do in Washington, you think we’re crazy we think you’re crazy, when does it end?? It really makes me sad for my kids.

Pamela - posted on 09/28/2010

We should keep caring - even though American politics are sometimes beyond annoying - because those bastards WANT us to stop caring. They want us to stop going to the polls and voting. They're counting on it. For that reason alone, we should never stop caring.

That's my motivational speech for the day:o)

LaCi - posted on 09/28/2010

I considered voting republican in hopes republicans would take over everything, screw us beyond belief, and maybe citizens would stop bitching about "liberal agendas"



However, when I was just trying to watch the news yesterday and had to sit through commercial breaks that consisted of 6 anti-baron hill ads and a flooring company commercial, I changed my mind. Fuck that guy for all his ridiculous attack ads that I will encounter for two months.





Honestly though, I've stopped caring. Politicians are all the same, so why the fuck should I care anymore?



If anyone has a motivational speech for times like this, ready, set, go.

Pamela - posted on 09/27/2010

Guess I wasn't done.;o)

Pamela - posted on 09/27/2010

And allow me to add, lest you think for one moment that the Tea Party, what with Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, are in any way truly representative of us regular people, they are both protecting their monetary interests and the interests of Rupert Murdoch, whom is no friend to any of us. Who do you think funds the Tea Party "Movement"? Who funds Glenn Beck or Sarah "The Quitter" Palin? Follow the money, honey...



Okay. I'm done now.



Furthermore, I am very distrustful of groups that talk incessantly about "patriots, patriotism, freedom", etc. Carter was the last real progressive that was in the presidential seat, quite frankly. Clinton was not a progressive - he was much closer to a moderate who leaned just a little to the Right of things. Reagan and both Bush's were further to the Right than Clinton. We've had 20 stinkin' years of predominately Right-Wing rule in this country. So don't go talking to me about how the progressives have been tearing the Constitution apart for the past 20 years. They haven't.



By elites, do you mean "educated" people? Because I'd rather have an educated president who understands the Constitution, than the Corporations calling the shots.

ME - posted on 09/27/2010

exactly Pamela! Well Said!!!

Pamela - posted on 09/27/2010

In many ways I can get on board with mom's and grandma's getting informed. But the loss of our freedom is not going to come from the Obama administration. Until y'alls get that in your noggins, you'll be supporting the very people who, as George Carlin stated so eloquently, "don't care about you; don't give a f@#$ about you!" Those "people" are called corporations who are concerned only with their bottom line. And you know what? This isn't about spending. Lose that drumbeat because it's out rhythm with what's really going on. CORPORATIONS will bring down this democracy. And Republicans (mostly - though probably some democrats too) will vote to deregulate and give those corporations a free ride. But it will be at our expense.

Isobel - posted on 09/26/2010

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Marne - posted on 09/26/2010

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All we want is fiscally conservative leaders of our country.Check out the local 9-12 groups. You won't be sorry. There are wonderful patriots and people involved in fighting by waking people up and urging people to VOTE smart. Our representatives are no longer listening to us. We need to wake up, sacrifice our time in commiting to do better. VOTE SMART and come to the aid of securing our freedoms and our children's freedoms. Tons of moms, grandma's, small business owners concerned of the government spending in all political parties. Republicans and Democrats are equally to blame for the state of our country. Spending, big government and ear marks are outrageous in 1000 page bills that no one reads. Progressives,companies and elites writing the bills that have special interests but not with our Constitution in mind. Our constitution and freedoms have been slowly been eaten away for last 20 yrs by progressives. Including Bush, Clinton, Carter all the way through to Woodrow Wilson. The Founding Fathers knew that we would need to keep aware and fight to keep limited government and hold our representatives accountable. We lost sight of this and need to RESTORE our founding values and principles locally and in DC. It all starts local!!

Pamela - posted on 09/26/2010

@ Laura: But they won't. That's the problem. They'll offer us Bush policy - maybe even something worse. Which is why I don't want them to win. If they were offering up moderates, I'd be much more amendable to them but that isn't what we'll get. We'll get looooooopy crazy crackers!

ME - posted on 09/26/2010

I agree as well...

Theresa - posted on 09/26/2010

No howling from me Pamela! I agree :)

Dana - posted on 09/25/2010

I honestly couldn't care less if they won or not. I'm kind of hoping the Republicans take it, that way they can put up or shut up. They never offer anything substantial, now they would have to.

Pamela - posted on 09/25/2010

Patricia Williams does a far better than I articulating one of those theories. In fact, I think it's the main theory (and I expect some howling).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep...

Theresa - posted on 09/25/2010

Frustrated or not... I'm still voting Democratic! I could never vote Republican or for a Tea Party candidate in it's current state.

And Pamela...please expand on your theories. Always interesting to hear different points of view.

Pamela - posted on 09/25/2010

But while the right uses this woman who communicated her frustration to Obama, note this: she is still a supporter of Obama. She was representative of so many of us who are frustrated and disappointed with how Obama hasn't taken the bull by the horns.

But lest we think he's done nothing - he actually has gotten a lot done. But it's behind the scenes, and not very sexy.

And for all our frustrations, this man has had some of the most potent opposition I've ever seen in all my 50 years. I have theories about that...

ME - posted on 09/25/2010

I agree with you Theresa...and I AM frustrated...I also know where that woman from the town hall meeting was coming from...I'm TIRED of defending him...I wish he would shut these fools up himself...

Theresa - posted on 09/25/2010

@ Mary Elizabeth...I confess! I am one of those impatient Americans that have been super critical of President Obama. I feel he has not done enough, fast enough! Usually I am not that impatient, but after the Republicans DECLARED that they will refuse to support him on any bill...I assumed that his only recourse was to go in there and give the American people what we wanted. I mean any reasonable person understands that you can't compromise with yourself! . But no....Obama kept trying to appease them and work with them only to be disappointed! The Republicans succeeded in dragging out every bill proposed and talking about it so negatively and as usual offering NOTHING in it's place. When you have such a massive "institution" making a big effort to ensure your failure, you have to move firmly and quickly. I would have preferred the Republicans trying to undo everything Obama did after he left office, then him passing piss poor laws that don't do enough and don't go into effect for years. The Republicans had 8 years to bring down the deficit, reform health care and regulate financial institutions. They did NOTHING...oh except of course to get us into 2 unnecessary wars, triple the deficit and take away our freedom in the name of Homeland Security. They were hardly in a position to make demands.

ME - posted on 09/25/2010

Yep...not liberal enough...and most of my liberal/left leaning friends agree with that...The public option, DADT, Marriage Equality, Guantanamo, reworking the tax structure...you name it, he promised it, and then let the "party of no" break that promise for him with barely a fight...Don't get me wrong...he's done some good things...starting with the equal pay bill he signed (though it doesn't seem to have had much effect)...and Economists pretty much all agree that he saved the country from complete financial devastation after Bush left us near ruin, and there's no way to measure yet how he's effected the country by being an Intelligent man who encourages education rather than belittling and mocking it...but he's not liberal enough...we wanted REAL change...we wanted the politicians to want it as much as we do (and I would guess that President Obama wanted them to want it as well)...but he hasn't been able to inspire change in the culture of greed in DC the way he inspired the American people during his campaign and election...and while insipring others is a necessary quality in a leader...I would say that the other politicians in DC deserve some of the blame for (as Jon Stewart said) being assholes...

In addition...there's a long article posted elsewhere that examines the "great divergence" and claims that economic indicators lag by a year...meaning that all of Bush's damage wasn't done until sometime late in 2009, and meaning that we won't know how much President Obama has accomplished until a year after his term ends...and also, that we cannot yet expect him to have fixed all of the problems that G. Bush's admin. caused if they weren't through hurting us until 10 months ago...Americans have a serious problem with instant gratification...not everything can be done NOW just because we want it to be done NOW!

Pamela - posted on 09/24/2010

@Laura?: Indeed.

Isobel - posted on 09/24/2010

He's definitely not liberal enough...and I think probably that about half of your country feels the same way.

Pamela - posted on 09/24/2010

By the way - it's great to see you back Christa! Another conservative to debate! Woo hoo! You make it very fun and interesting:o)

Pamela - posted on 09/24/2010

@ Gianina: I think one major reason that healthcare reform is so unpopular now is it doesn't go far enough. It's like we were promised great sex and baby, we were all hot and bothered, but we got a limp biscuit instead. That's the reason for the anger on the left. Obama promised us progressives change but took us only so far, and in effect, prevented real change. Progressives would be much happier if he'd taken us to either universal healthcare or at least, single payer. Instead, we got milk toast when we thought we'd be getting steak. So yep, it's a sore topic.



The saddest part of this though is that we progressives went home and pouted when we needed (and need) to get off our rather broad hinnies and have our own rallies. We've kind of given up and given into a kind of despair.

Isobel - posted on 09/24/2010

You know...I've never got an answer from anybody from the right regarding the patriot act...why, exactly were you not moved into action by that little number, if you are soooo concerned with preserving people rights?

and what, by the way did they offer...scrap it and only offer tort reform...while I agree that tort reform should have happened...it was not the ONLY thing that should have happened.

Obama asked, time and time again for input from the right...only to be told...scrap it.

Gianina - posted on 09/24/2010

Theresa, I agree with Christa on the 'Obama reached across the isles to the Republicans'. I watched the CNN when Obama had both sides around the table. He talked and yes listened but he didn't compromised with what the Republican had to offer. The Health Care was one example. He didn't accept any part of what Rep offered, nor did he want to redo the Health Care. Now granted, I truly believe that it was Polosi's who said 'no' and Obama pretty much agreed.

Now, I understand that the Democrates aren't even going to mention the Health CARE in their campaign. Why is that?? because they knew that it's a sore topic...

Theresa - posted on 09/24/2010

Obama HAS reached across the isle to the Republicans. He has requested their input on the stimulus bill, health care reform and financial reform, just to name a few. Their answer has been NO to everything (even to things they once supported and agreed with). Time and time again, the Democrats have had to "pear down" their proposals to meet Republican approval and standards and still didn't get any support OR the bill was sooo watered down, it was far from what the American people wanted or needed. But don't get me wrong, I have said it before and I'll say it again, the Democratic party must take responsibility for their failures. Their failure to govern and lead is nobodies fault but their own. They had an opportunity to do something great and they didn't do it! Scott Brown was the beginning and sadly the November elections might be the end.

But to say the American people are tired of having Obama's liberal agenda shoved down their throat is inaccurate. The American people I know think Obama is not liberal enough! The American people I know think Obama is not radical enough! The American people I know are tired of people disrespecting and demonizing our President. The American people I know want Democrats and Republicans to work for US and not for themselves or BIG BUSINESS. The American people I know want universal health care. The American people I know are happy that their jobs, schools and programs were saved with that stimulus money. And the American people I know understand that for years congress (from both parties) routinely attach unrelated bills together to get support and get it passed. It sucks, but that's what they do. It's not new!

And please tell me you're kidding about Senate approval for people on his administration??? Again, not new...but of course everything Obama does is suspicious and done under a shroud of secrecy. You know...sometimes we just want to bypass the BS and just do what is necessary. I wish he would handle more situations like this.

Oh and by the way...no president has taken away our freedoms and defaced the constitution more than George Bush. Him and Dick Cheney used the constitution as their own little political science project..."How many ways can we violate the constitution but convince everybody we're really patriotic"!

I guess it's safe to say we won't agree, but I do appreciate the debate. I've been gone a while and have recently returned a few weeks ago. Always interesting to hear the other viewpoint.

Isobel - posted on 09/24/2010

and for the record...I think it's anybody's game in the next election. It really depends who gets put up...and who TURNS up to vote.

Isobel - posted on 09/24/2010

those are all pretty vague platforms though...I for one would like them to admit to all the specific things they would do...And I would like them to say it out loud.



We will make abortion illegal.

We will make it illegal for gay people to get married.

We will DEregulate the banking system (because they have proven soooo well that they can regulate themselves)

We will dismantle and privatize healthcare for veterans (yup...want to give them vouchers...how far do you suppose vouchers) will go with insurance companies when you are suffering from MULTIPLE pre-existing conditions...can you even imagine how much their rates would be?



And exactly what about the constitution would they like to change "back"? because I don't know about you guys, but our Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a living document...not one piece of paper. It evolves with us as a society to reflect the way our society has come to be...not the way it was 200 years ago.



Otherwise, I still wouldn't be allowed to vote (nor be considered a human under the law

ME - posted on 09/24/2010

"When these people find themselves without a job, health care, a home and food, do they think the Koch brothers are going to help them???? They will have already made sure that the government can't.."

Truer words have never been said...

Christa - posted on 09/24/2010

Hi I'm back. :-P Haven't had much time for this anymore, but I thought given everything that's going on there might be some interesting chats going on. Here's my 2 cents.

Theresa said: "And I applaud President Obama for reaching across the isle and trying to work with the Republicans, considering that before he was inaugurated, they vowed not to work with him at all on any issue. There have been more filibusters in the last 2 years, than in the last 20 years!"

I'm sorry, you know I respect your opinion, but this has me laughing. On what planet has Obama reached across the aisle? On what planet have the R's been filibustering? Until Brown took over Kennedy’s seat we couldn't have filibustered if we wanted to, and believe me we wanted to. Obama and his thugs (Pelosi, Reid, Frank etc) have been shoving their extreme left wing liberal agenda down the countries throats for the past 20 months. So yeah when we finally had enough people to filibuster you better believe we are going to stop this runaway train called Obama.

I think these November elections are going to prove that you all that agree with the crap he's pushed (or tried to push) through are in the minority. Nobody wanted THIS healthcare bill, the stimulus was a HUGE waste of money. Even this recent defense bill was not wanted, (it was stopped by 2 democrats as well). And it wasn't just because of the DADT, it was because they wouldn't let R's put any amendments into it. However the DADT part is just another example of them shoving their own liberal agenda into a totally unrelated bill to try and shove it down people's throats. I know that back room deals are part of politics (sadly) but this administration has taken it to new levels. Instead of putting people into his administration with Senate approval he just appoints them or makes them Czars. He's been circumventing our constitution since the day he got into office. And the majority is sick of it and just want it to stop.

On the Tea Party, I do think some are a bit extreme and while I agree with most of what they stand for I can also recognize that the answer to our problems is somewhere in the middle, not on the extreme right. I personally voted for both the non-tea party R candidates in my Gov and Senate primaries, but not surprisingly they both lost. I do think the Tea Party movement will be big this election, but moving forward it will tone it down to just a more fiscally conservative R party, then what we started with after Bush's 8 years.

Krista-I'm not sure what you mean by them not having any platforms, perhaps you haven't paid close enough attention. Their platforms are really quite simple. They want to shrink the federal government and get our laws more in line with our constitution and how our founding fathers meant for this country to be run. The problem they will encounter is that's easier said than done. To do this they will be cutting somebody's check and I don't think anyone is going to be kicking the unfortunate out on the streets. I do hope that these past 2 years under Obama's madness will help us all to compromise. I hope that my fellow conservatives have seen what happens when we don't do what we say and people turn on us. Either extreme is bad for this country and I hope that when we take back the house we are able to compromise in a way that the current administration has not even tried. Time will tell though. . .

Theresa - posted on 09/24/2010

Those of us in NYC are no strangers to the Koch brothers. They hide behind some noble causes and charities but all they just want to do is ensure their place at the top. They are greedy and selfish and narcissistic. They have a sense of entitlement and really don't care about those they feel are beneath them.

What I find astounding is that the very people who are part of the Tea Party movement, they feel are beneath them! They are pawns doing all of the Koch's brothers dirty work. They are shouting to limit government, cut federal jobs and social policies. When these people find themselves without a job, health care, a home and food, do they think the Koch brothers are going to help them???? They will have already made sure that the government can't..

Pamela - posted on 09/24/2010

Yeah that sounds good except they'll tear a lot of our checks and balances a part - the way Bush's gang did. They'll be giving more power to corporations than Bush ever did and there won't be a lot we can do about it. Who funds the Tea Party? The Koch brothers of Koch Industries (appropriately named, dontchathink?).



http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dylan-brod...



What we can expect from the Republicans or Tea Party (even though they cry that the Republicans have "sold out"):



http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/09/gop-...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-kl...

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/09/22...

http://www.frumforum.com/a-gop-pledge-to...



Here's the GOP plan to save America:



http://pledge.gop.gov/



I believe in being fiscally conservative - but I also believe that people come first. Maybe it's that Jesus thing I'm into...

Sara - posted on 09/24/2010

I look at it this way: let them win in November and put their money where their mouth is. Instead of shouting at the wind, they can get in there and show people that they're just going to play into the status quo as every other single person has done in Washington. It's sad.

Krista - posted on 09/24/2010

I think if Tea Partiers get into power, people will soon find it a case of "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." They can talk about standing up to the Washington establishment, but once they're actually IN that bubble, we'll see how things go.

Personally, though, I find it really disturbing that the Tea Partiers are doing so well when they don't even really have any sort of a platform other than "Take our country back". Take it back from whom, precisely? And take it back to where? I would like to know exactly what these people envision for Americans (ALL Americans, not just those who agree with them.) Populism is all well and good, but governing consists of a lot more than yelling slogans. I mean, Queen Tea, Sarah Palin, couldn't even hack being Governor of Alaska -- and people think she could someday be President? Oy.

Theresa - posted on 09/24/2010

I agree with you Gianina. I am all for bipartisanship and compromise (isn't that the basics of what we teach our children)? And I applaud President Obama for reaching across the isle and trying to work with the Republicans, considering that before he was inaugurated, they vowed not to work with him at all on any issue. There have been more filibusters in the last 2 years, than in the last 20 years! There were some issues that are "core" to the Democratic base, that Obama should have been able to pass with just Democratic support and still couldn't get it done. Even the bills that were passed fell short of expectations. That is not good leadership. That is not strength. That's what makes me angry. The lack of cohesion within the Democratic Party. With the Republicans against us, we should stand firm together. I just don't see that. That's why I believe they will lose at the very least, the House.

Gianina - posted on 09/23/2010

OH I don't know, I think that the Democrats may still have the Senates and the Republicans may likely have the House.



Not to be disrespectful, many R-wings felt and said similar things to what you all said during the campaign election... ''we are screwed to the ears...I'm so sick of these people I want to scream....moving to Canada...they're really hurting themselves...etc". Please don't think that I am mocking you. I just find this whole 'politics' so sad because we can't seem to have a compromise from both sides. Many of my friends (on both sides) kept telling me to 'keep dreaming'.

Pamela - posted on 09/23/2010

What's so sad is that the average Fox viewer honestly doesn't understand that when they vote Tea Party or Republican, they're really hurting themselves. They're not hurting the politicians. I could just cry.

ME - posted on 09/23/2010

The Democrats look like wimps to people who watch Fox news and aren't hearing the truth regarding the obstructionism of the republicans...every bill that comes up gets filibustered...I'm so sick of these people I want to scream...I guess I better start looking for jobs in Canada...These people will destroy this country for EVERYONE but the billionaires...

Theresa - posted on 09/23/2010

I think it's inevitable that the Democrats will lose this November. Although they have made many accomplishments legislatively, their impact has been nonexistence. They have been ineffective in convincing the American people that the policies they passed are in our best interest. Their inability to rally members of their own party to pass bills that are the "core" of Democratic party is inexcusable. The lack of confidence the American people have in them, to push back and fight the Republican agenda, and fight for the issues that are important to us is growing. The Democrats look like a bunch of wimps, who can't govern and can't get the job done. People want action and despite my disagreement with everything he/they did, George Bush and the Republicans got sh*t done!