would it be different...

Isobel - posted on 08/04/2010

because I wasn't defending them. What they did was wrong...my question is...is it OK when your group does it?

Isobel - posted on 08/03/2010

“I have another question...will the fringe right be allowed to stand outside (across the road...just for sake of argument) with signs and chants about communism and civil war and their threats of violence against the left during the next election? I imagine that will be free speech right?”


It is so amazing to see that there are people out there that will defend the kind of men who were standing with clubs outside a polling place. They did not just go in to vote…they stood out front and paced back and forth. They wanted press and they got it.
No one should be able to stand as people walk in to vote…like the Black Panthers did in this case. What you suggest is nothing like what happened.

............................

The question was, Diane, if the Fringe right decide to stand outside a voting post and chant about civil war and blah blah blah...would that be an instance of Free Speech? (even though they are inciting violence?)

Pamela - posted on 08/02/2010

Well, specifically, we need to raise our own bars first.

Pamela - posted on 08/02/2010

Indeed Diane, murder and violence cannot be justified. Nor can hate speech. It only continues the cycles of violence and war. We need to raise the bar - for all peoples.

Krista - posted on 08/02/2010

“Janessa said, “I find it is very sad that americans as a whole are not standing up to these kinds of people like groups such as the kkk, neo nazism, the new black panthers, and any other people who have hate for someone base on there color of they skin. By the way majority of so called white americans are not even white there are mix and same goes for blacks and native americans. Americans need to stand up and stop letting racist people get way with hate.’



Diane answered: How dare you say something like this. We believe in free speech Janessa. And as filthy and disquesting as they are they have a right to be heard and a right to protest. But they do not have the right to stand in front of a polling place to intimidate the people going in.”



I suppose it depends on what you mean by not letting people get away with it. Do I think that racist hate speech needs to be quashed? Only if it contains a deliberate call to violent action. But otherwise, if someone wants to stand on a soapbox and declare that they think that blacks, or whites, or Asians, or those goofy Scandinavians are evil people? That's their prerogative.



I DO however, agree with Janessa that we need to stand up to those people. Free speech does not mean freedom FROM criticism for that speech. You can say what you want, but you should not expect to never be called on it. So if someone stands up and starts saying blacks are evil, I think that the rest of society has every right and rationale to tell that person that they are being a racist asshole.



And that is something that I see over and over again, particularly with people who lean right. Right-wing person will say something objectionable, the rest of the crowd will decry the statement, and RWP will get in a huff and say something inane like, "I guess there's no such thing as freedom of speech anymore!" Sure there is. Did RWP just get arrested for his statement? Of course not. There IS freedom of speech, but there is no freedom FROM criticism. So, regardless of what political stripe you are, if you're going to put forth a political opinion, you have no right to say that your free speech rights are being impeded, simply because people DISAGREE with you.



In other words, if you're going to say racist statements, then you'd better sack up, because people ARE going to disagree with you, and vehemently.

Iris - posted on 08/02/2010

“You know Iris I do not know why you are attacking me. I show some footage of violence and Black Panthers and you assume I am a racist. I would do the same with the KKK or any white supremacy group. I know that just blows your socks off and you don’t believe it…but it’s true.”



You know Diane, I don’t think you are a racist and never did. That is YOUR assumption.



“The problem is you can’t see both sides…it’s all or none for you. I question Obama……I question anyone black…and its racism. I want illegals to go home...and I am a racist.”



Thank you for clearing that up for me because you would be the top candidate to see things from several different angles?.......Don’t think so Diane, you need to take those blinders off . And just to clear any misunderstanding, not talking about you view on racism.



“You are the one who is acting out hatred here Iris…by assuming that I am a terrible racist person simply by posting what I did. And you are changing the focus off the BP. What about the videos I posted?”



Where in my posts did I state that you are a racist??!! Let me be clear here, I do not think that all of the people that sat back and ignored what went on in the ’50, ’60, ’70 and further back were racists, but they didn’t help either. Now, the BP was created to fight against unfair violence against there own people and it made a big difference.



“And the one video you posted was in Spanish. I live in America.”



Yes, but do you think it was in your local news? I couldn’t find it and what does that tell you about “fair” media? I did find some English ones on youtube and posted it below.



“Had I been on the street when anyone who raised a hand in salute of Hitler…..I would have shown opposition. But you do not want to hear or believe that of me….because you are closed minded and have me pegged one way. You think I hate blacks, hate the poor.

Mixed blood…….who the hell cares….Iris. Not me honey. Obama never really talks about the fact that he is mixed does he? All people said when he got elected was he was the first African American elected. Should be…….half WHITE…. And AFRICAN.”



Again….where did I call you a racist Diane? Read my posts again and tell me where I called you a racist. Oh, and Obama never says he's black either. He has said that his race doesn't matter. He is raised up by his grandmother who is white and was close to her. He left his campaign to be with her here in HI when she died. I just don't get were you are coming from Diane. The man is raised and cared for by many Caucasians and you think he's a racist?



“Janessa said, “I find it is very sad that americans as a whole are not standing up to these kinds of people like groups such as the kkk, neo nazism, the new black panthers, and any other people who have hate for someone base on there color of they skin. By the way majority of so called white americans are not even white there are mix and same goes for blacks and native americans. Americans need to stand up and stop letting racist people get way with hate.’



Diane answered: How dare you say something like this. We believe in free speech Janessa. And as filthy and disquesting as they are they have a right to be heard and a right to protest. But they do not have the right to stand in front of a polling place to intimidate the people going in.”



I think Janessa is very right. I would like to see any people bleeding hatred in public against another race of people considered terrorists. What if it had been a muslim man preaching hatred against Christianity and the western world, praising Osama urging you to join the Taliban?

Diane - posted on 08/02/2010

Iris…we are not talking about military we are talking about Black Panthers.



“And tell me. In the 60's who was going to fight for the black people???”



Are you defending violence? Violence is ok?



“Were you or your parents there ready to take on the injustice towards the African Americans?”



What does that have to do with the Panthers and the violent acts they committed? You are implying, no saying that what violence happened was ok…you are making excuses for them. Thats like me saying that Tillers (the abortion doctor who was killed in cold blood during a church ceremony….)murderer was justified…that he was only defending the unborn. It can’t be justified, nor can other murders and violence similar to what the Black Panthers did.



“Do you have a history where you can be proud of either you or your parents to stand up white against white to protect your fellow Americans or did it all just past you by without you even knowing what was going on on the other side of the river, or few miles away?”



What? Bizarre…….



I have always stood up for people and it does not matter what color they are. We were taught to see no color. My mother right after 9-11 tutored this Muslim man who could not speak English, in the garage of his gas station convenience store. This was at the height of the Muslim frenzy. They formed a bond…he was in his twenties and she her seventies. When she died, he about collapsed. I came from a small town in Michigan and it was a melting pot of different races….My parents raised us to help others no matter if they were rich or poor. You assume that rich people don’t need any help. Many of you it is obvious that you hate people with money.



“I just cannot believe that you put out articles of few bad seeds to stamp the whole organization as a bad thing. I think that many innocent law abiding African Americans can be very thankful for The Black Panthers and their service.’



I do not condemn every person in the BPP. But that nevertheless does not erase the history behind many of their actions. Funny that much of the LEFT categorizes Tea party people as racist. Of course you disagree with that right?

There are racists and they are in all skin colors.



You know Iris I do not know why you are attacking me. I show some footage of violence and Black Panthers and you assume I am a racist. I would do the same with the KKK or any white supremacy group. I know that just blows your socks off and you don’t believe it…but it’s true.



The problem is you can’t see both sides…it’s all or none for you. I question Obama……I question anyone black…and its racism. I want illegals to go home...and I am a racist.



I know that whites can be racist..and there are racist groups…….and if the topic were that…I would stand up against them. BUT THE TOPIC IS THE BLACK PANTHERS AND THE HISTORY THAT SURROUNDS THEM. And I got news for ya Iris…it’s all not pretty. It is too bad that you just can’t see the truth and still be objective. I DO NOT HATE BLACKS….YA GET IT?



And if a white supremacy group were standing out of a black polling place with clubs………all HELL WOULD HAVE BROKEN LOOSE.



You are the one who is acting out hatred here Iris…by assuming that I am a terrible racist person simply by posting what I did. And you are changing the focus off the BP. What about the videos I posted?



And the one video you posted was in Spanish. I live in America.



Janessa said, “I find it is very sad that americans as a whole are not standing up to these kinds of people like groups such as the kkk, neo nazism, the new black panthers, and any other people who have hate for someone base on there color of they skin. By the way majority of so called white americans are not even white there are mix and same goes for blacks and native americans. Americans need to stand up and stop letting racist people get way with hate.’



How dare you say something like this. We believe in free speech Janessa. And as filthy and disquesting as they are they have a right to be heard and a right to protest. But they do not have the right to stand in front of a polling place to intimidate the people going in.



Had I been on the street when anyone who raised a hand in salute of Hitler…..I would have shown opposition. But you do not want to hear or believe that of me….because you are closed minded and have me pegged one way. You think I hate blacks, hate the poor.

Mixed blood…….who the hell cares….Iris. Not me honey. Obama never really talks about the fact that he is mixed does he? All people said when he got elected was he was the first African American elected. Should be…….half WHITE…. And AFRICAN.



I agree with Pam…racism is NEVER OK.



Kati said, “i think martin luther king jr did a great job and he did it without violence.’



He was am amazing man….so full of love for all people. And he did it in non violent ways. He was a Christian. He would be appauled today to see what is going on. I also love his niece Alveda King……I love to listen to her talk. What an intelligent and godly woman. Martin would be so proud of her. She is the type of person we need in the White House.



This is a super video about MLK as told by his niece. Glenn Beck talks for about six minutes…..then she is on. She talks about the Panthers. Steven Broden talks with her as well.



http://storyballoon.org/glenn-beck-talks...



ONE HUMAN RACE…….NOT ABOUT SKIN COLOR…UNITY AND JUSTICE.

Isobel - posted on 08/01/2010

Yes indeed, my mistake, America's history is entirely violence free :)

Pamela - posted on 08/01/2010

Wait wait - that's the French Revolution. We didn't behead here in what was then the colonies - so much more civilized you know:o)

Isobel - posted on 08/01/2010

I tend to lead more on the side of "sometimes it's necessary". Democracy itself wouldn't exist if not for the be-headings of thousands upon thousands of nobles.

Pamela - posted on 08/01/2010

I'm leaning more with you Kati. Violence does only beget more violence. It keeps the cycles of injustice turning and only when we're willing to step off the wheel of violence will we get anywhere. I will chose the path of MLK which I believe is the path of Christ.

Rosie - posted on 08/01/2010

they definitely needed some protection from police brutality-still do, i just don't think that violence is the answer ever. people get what they want with decency, and common sense. if somebody treats me with respect i will do the same back. and throughout my teachings of black history (which i am the first to admit, wasn't nearly enough) i clearly remember MLK, and have great respect for what he tried to do. i don't look back on history and remember fondly those who use violence to get what they want-hitler anyone? not to mention the fact that many people see black people as some sort of mangy mongrels who thrive on violence. what better way to prove those idiots right? violence does nothing, but beget more violence.

Isobel - posted on 08/01/2010

I believe that the men on tape calling white people crackers and calling for violence against them are indeed racist. My article was in response to "Gertie" (Traci) saying that there was never anything good about the original Black Panther Party.

And I'm sorry, but I've got to disagree with you...sometimes violence IS justified...and it WAS in the 60s; the black community needed protection from police brutality.

Rosie - posted on 08/01/2010

sorry, but i agree with diane. the original black panther party was originally founded with what was supposed to be non violent actions, but that soon was not the case. if you read a bit more in wiki about the original black panthers it clearly describes all the violence within the group.

any group that uses violence to get what it wants is not good or helpful in my book. iris asked who at that point was going to stand up for the black people? i think martin luther king jr did a great job and he did it without violence.

i'm still not understanding why white people who don't agree with racism in any form are called racists when they call out a black person for their own racism. i'm tired of hearing how it's somehow excused because they've had to deal with it all their life, and we as white people will never never know what they've had to experience. well duh, i'm sure we all know that. racism of any kind is a disgrace, and should be treated that way, instead of excused away. excusing it IMO lessens the horrible racism that black people have had to face throughout the years.



i'd also like to point out to you diane, that pamela had a very interesting article about how the BUSH administration were the ones who actually didn't press charges for the voter intimidation. under the OBAMA administration there was a civil trial and it was won against the NBP. can't remember what thread it is in now. i'll find it in a bit. oh yet MORE times where your precious GOP is downright LYING about something to further their agenda.

Isobel - posted on 08/01/2010

hmmmmmm...let's add all this up for a moment shall we?

“Tea partier” Mark Williams writes ‘letter to Abe Lincoln’ … from the ‘coloreds’

Andrew Breitbart gets caught creating FAKE scandals to close Acorn and to get Shirley Sherrod fired

and then blame it ALL on Obama for being racist against white people.

yup...no racism in the tea part (or the right wing in general for that matter) none, whatsoever.

Pamela - posted on 08/01/2010

For what it's worth:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010071...

Racism is never okay.

Janessa - posted on 08/01/2010

Mary E

"I just heard this on the radio a few minutes ago...the whole quote, and they do talk about killing "crackers" and their babies...it was pretty scary...I understand why people of color and many of the impoverished people in this country are angry with the wealthy, but it is just as bad to lump all white people into a single category as it is lump anyone else together...doesn't move us forward, it just holds us back..."



I agree with you 100% and i remember you told me yourself is mixed so you should be standing up even more siced your not white right against even white who are racist. Sinced my son is mixed i would always want him to stand up to any racist people and i am glad

Janessa - posted on 08/01/2010

Hey thank you laci and iris for defending the old black panthers. As a black person i disagree with the new black panthers those people are full of hate. Since i am not american i have never recieved racism as much as majority of black americans have and i could never be in there shoes. I find it is very sad that americans as a whole are not standing up to these kinds of people like groups such as the kkk, neo nazism, the new black panthers, and any other people who have hate for someone base on there color of they skin. By the way majority of so called white americans are not even white there are mix and same goes for blacks and native americans. Americans need to stand up and stop letting racist people get way with hate.

Iris - posted on 08/01/2010

and this one

and...

Iris - posted on 08/01/2010

Oh and Diane. since we are all hot and bothered with racism...





Yah, that's something. Neo natzis in AZ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS6mj8lcA...

Iris - posted on 08/01/2010

To the OP

I have no tolerances for any type of racism. If white hate black, black hate whites, Hispanics hate white or black or Chinese and so on, it's racism.

When you put a race of people into a negative light it is always racism.

That said, if there would be a White Supremacists bleeding their hearts out, they would have the same right. I don't think they would be arrested.... it's the country of free speech so how could they be arrested?

Iris - posted on 08/01/2010

Do you know how many military men have done wrong from the time of World War l and on to this day Diane?

As a Military wife I can tell you that not every one who joins the Military has a good intention and it ruins it for the rest of our proud loving country men.

Well I guess it's the same for the Panthers. Most have good intention at heart but not everyone dose.

And tell me. In the 60's who was going to fight for the black people???

Who was going to fight back??

Were you or your parents there ready to take on the injustice towards the African Americans?

Do you have a history where you can be proud of either you or your parents to stand up white against white to protect your fellow Americans or did it all just past you by without you even knowing what was going on on the other side of the river, or few miles away?

I just cannot believe that you put out articles of few bad seeds to stamp the whole organization as a bad thing. I think that many innocent law abiding African Americans can be very thankful for The Black Panthers and their service.

Diane - posted on 08/01/2010

“I have another question...will the fringe right be allowed to stand outside (across the road...just for sake of argument) with signs and chants about communism and civil war and their threats of violence against the left during the next election? I imagine that will be free speech right?”


It is so amazing to see that there are people out there that will defend the kind of men who were standing with clubs outside a polling place. They did not just go in to vote…they stood out front and paced back and forth. They wanted press and they got it.
No one should be able to stand as people walk in to vote…like the Black Panthers did in this case. What you suggest is nothing like what happened.

You tell me…what were they doing standing out front?


History of the Blank Panthers….
“Several Black Panthers are now extremist Muslims and cause celebres in the Islamofascist community, like convicted, imprisoned cop-killer Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin a/k/a H. Rap Brown. Al-Amin, who bragged, “Violence is as American as cherry pie,” killed one sheriff’s deputy and wounded another in March 2000. The group–so vicious, so violent–even savagely tortured and murdered its own. The disgusting way they tortured and dismembered their living victims was so sick, it rivals that of the Islamic terrorists we are fighting now. Ungreat minds think alike.”

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/2510/40-y...

http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_am...

http://www.aim.org/guest-column/more-ove...

“Panther Minister of Information Eldridge Cleaver wrote about his history of raping women, claiming that rape was “an insurrectionary act.” Because his victims were white, he explained, rape was not only a way to get revenge but also to defile and trample upon “the white man’s law and his values.” After the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., as liberals like Bobby Kennedy urged peace, Cleaver advocated a nationwide plan to ambush police officers.”

“In Chicago, Fred Hampton said, “If you kill a few, you get a little satisfaction. But when you kill them ALL you get complete satisfaction.” New York Panther leader Michael Tabor described how “the only good pig is a dead pig.” The official Panther newspaper advocated guerilla attacks in the U.S. The founder of the Panthers, Huey Newton, claimed. “Every time you go execute a white racist Gestapo cop, you are defending yourself.”

“In 1967, assaults on police officers went up 41 percent. Newton went to jail for killing a cop, an event that the Panther leadership used to their political advantage. Thereafter, he jumped bail and fled to Cuba when faced with subsequent murder charges for killing a witness. Fred Hampton sought to incorporate the Chicago street gangs into the Panthers’ organization, though he died before accomplishing his dream.”

“The imprisoned George Jackson, after being recruited to the Panther cause, described in his memoirs how the goal of blacks was “to destroy the U.S. as a modern nation-state, waste its huge power facilities, destroy its communications and transport facilities, stop all production and distribution, sabotage its sewer system and its harbor facilities and if it comes to it, subject its whole population to poison and germ warfare.”

Twenty-one Black Panthers were charged in New York with a plot to bomb department stores, New Haven railroad facilities, a police station and the botanical garden. The battle over which Panther faction had the right to distribute the party’s newsletter in New York led to gunfights in the streets, and to the gagging and mistreatment of children. In California, Panthers kidnapped and murdered a judge. Black Panthers in New Orleans captured police officers and beat them with nail-laden boards. All of this is in Austin’s book.”

The Black Panthers like the KKK employed violence to obtain their objectives. The founders of the BPP preached for a "revolutionary war."

LaCi - posted on 07/31/2010

I suppose I should specify so maybe I can't be taken out of context, you can WALK on the sidewalk, you can not loiter within 50ft of the polling entrance/exit.



And as for having a stick at your hip, what's it matter? You can have a gun on your hip.



And since this is the only thing I've seen regarding the "new black panthers" I won't judge the entire group yet, given I've only seen one raving loon on video.

LaCi - posted on 07/31/2010

"Laci said, “I think it's strange that people are hanging out outside the doors. Thats illegal here, I thought it was everywhere. You have to be like 50 ft away from all entrances and exits.”



Actually when they were standing outside the polling place someone got them on their car phone. It was a public place. And so is the space outside your home. Sidewalks are public, as are roads. "



Actually it is illegal to be within 50ft of the polling entrances and exits here, regardless of where the sidewalks are. My current polling place is the nearby grade school, and the exit opens right out onto the sidewalk. You are not allowed to stand there. Those are the rules.



" The organization's leaders passionately espoused socialist and communist (largely Maoist) doctrines,"



That's all you need to say, when it comes to Diane's negative views, everything else is irrelevant.

Iris - posted on 07/31/2010

Diane, I think you need to read up on The Black Panthers history and The NEW Black Panthers. The former was created to protect African Americans from injustice while the NBP seem to have more in common with KKK, than The original Black Panthers.

Critricism by former members of the original Black Panther Party:

The Huey P. Newton Foundation issued a news release denouncing the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. Their release reads in part:
“ As guardian of the true history of the Black Panther Party, the Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation, which includes former leading members of the Party, denounces this group's exploitation of the Party's name and history. Failing to find its own legitimacy in the black community, this band would graft the Party's name upon itself, which we condemn... [T]hey denigrate the Party's name by promoting concepts absolutely counter to the revolutionary principles on which the Party was founded... The Black Panthers were never a group of angry young militants full of fury toward the "white establishment." The Party operated on love for black people, not hatred of white people.[39] ”

Bobby Seale, one of the co-founding members of the original Black Panther Party, spoke out against the New Black Panther Party. Calling the rhetoric of the New Black Panther Party "xenophobic", he spoke of their remarks as, "absurd, racial, [and] categorical".
“ Just to hate another person because [of] the color of their skin or their ethnicity — we don't do that. That's not what the goal objective is. The goal objective is human liberation. The goal objective is the greater community cooperation and humanism. The goal objective is to get rid of institutionalized racism....[40] ”

Reacting to a video of two representatives of the New Black Panther Party positioned outside of a polling place on Election Day in 2008 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, one of which was armed with a nightstick, who called themselves "security" when questioned by a bystander with a camera,[41] he referred to their actions as voter intimidation. He also spoke of the major differences between the methods of the original Black Panthers and the New Black Panthers, particularly the differences in their 10 Point Plans.[8] Before the close of the interview, Seale re-iterated that there is no connection between the original Black Panther Party for Self-Defense and the New Black Panther Party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_P...

Isobel - posted on 07/31/2010

I have another question...will the fringe right be allowed to stand outside (across the road...just for sake of argument) with signs and chants about communism and civil war and their threats of violence against the left during the next election? I imagine that will be free speech right?

Isobel - posted on 07/31/2010

Black Panther Party
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the USA 1960s-1970s African-American movement. For other uses, see Black Panthers (disambiguation).
Black Panther Party
Bpp logo.PNG
Founded 1966 (1966)
Dissolved c. 1976
Ideology Marxism-Leninism, Maoism, internationalism, black nationalism
Political position Far left
International affiliation Algeria, Cuba, France
Official colors Black, Light Blue
Politics of the United States
Political parties
Elections

The Black Panther Party (originally the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense) was an African-American revolutionary left-wing organization working for the self-defense for black people. It was active in the United States from the mid-1960s into the 1970s. The Black Panther Party achieved national and international impact through their deep involvement in the Black Power movement and in US politics of the 1960s and 70s, as the intense anti-racism of the time is today considered one of the most significant social, political and cultural currents in US history. The group's "provocative rhetoric, militant posture, and cultural and political flourishes permanently altered the contours of American Identity."[1]

Founded in Oakland, California, by Bobby Seale and Huey P. Newton on October 15, 1966, the organization initially set forth a doctrine calling primarily for the protection of African American neighborhoods from police brutality.[2] But the Black Panther Party's objectives and philosophy expanded and evolved rapidly during the party's existence. The organization's leaders passionately espoused socialist and communist (largely Maoist) doctrines, but the Party's black nationalist reputation attracted an ideologically diverse membership.[3] Ideological consensus within the party was difficult to achieve, and some prominent members openly disagreed with the views of the leaders.

The organization's official newspaper, The Black Panther, was first circulated in 1967. Also that year, the Black Panther Party marched on the California State Capitol in Sacramento in protest of a selective ban on weapons. By 1968, the party had expanded into many cities throughout the United States, including New Orleans, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit, San Diego, Denver, Newark, New York City, Boston, Dallas, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Seattle, Washington, D.C., and Baltimore. Membership reached 5,000 and their newspaper, under the editorial leadership of Eldridge Cleaver, had a circulation of 250,000.[4] The group created a Ten-Point Program, a document that called for "Land, Bread, Housing, Education, Clothing, Justice and Peace", as well as exemption from conscription for African-American men, among other demands.[5] With the Ten-Point program, “What we Want, What We Believe”, the Black Panther Party captured in uncompromising language the collective economic and political grievances articulated by black radicals and many black liberals since the 1930s.[6]

Gaining national prominence, the Black Panther Party became an icon of the counterculture of the 1960s.[7] Ultimately, the Panthers condemned black nationalism as "black racism" and became more focused on socialism without racial exclusivity.[8] They instituted a variety of community social programs designed to alleviate poverty and improve health among communities deemed most needful of aid. It also recognized that different minority communities (those it deemed oppressed by the US government) needed to organize around their own set of issues and encouraged alliances with such organizations.

The Black Panther Party's most influential and widely known programs were its armed citizens' patrols to evaluate behavior of police officers and its Free Breakfast for Children program. However, the group's political goals were often overshadowed by their confrontational, militant, and sometimes violent tactics against police.[9]

Federal Bureau of Investigation Director J. Edgar Hoover called the party “the greatest threat to the internal security of the country,”[10] and he supervised an extensive program of counter-organizing that included surveillance, eavesdropping, infiltration, police harassment, perjury, and a laundry list of other tactics designed to incriminate party members and drain the organization of resources and manpower. Through these tactics, it was thought that their potential for further advancement would diminish and probability of continuing to serve as a threat to the general power structure of the US, or maintain a presence as a strong undercurrent would shrink.”[11] While party membership started to decline during Huey Newton's 1968 manslaughter trial, the Black Panther Party collapsed altogether in the early 1970s. Writers such as former Communist Party USA member Angela Davis and writer and political activist Ward Churchill have alleged that law enforcement officials went to great lengths to discredit and destroy the organization, including assassination.[12]
.............................................................................

I know, wikipedia's not my favorite source, but I figured in this case it was probably the least biased.

They were originally founded to PROTECT themselves from police brutality and institutionalized racism.

These people today are NOT what the party was originally founded on. They have picked up the violence without the true meaning of the movement.

I've never known anyone who was called a racist for a normal disagreement with a black person, on com or elsewhere...sorry.

Diane - posted on 07/31/2010

Laci said, “I think it's strange that people are hanging out outside the doors. Thats illegal here, I thought it was everywhere. You have to be like 50 ft away from all entrances and exits.”

Actually when they were standing outside the polling place someone got them on their car phone. It was a public place. And so is the space outside your home. Sidewalks are public, as are roads.

“I didn't really see any REAL intimidation, I didn't see them say anything to anyone, just standing there with the stick doesn't seem all that intimidating to me.”

Yea you wouldn’t…enough said. But a white standing there with stick,…would have been called a weapon. When asked the guy said he was security...a lie.

It is about free speech. Could I get away from standing at a polling place with a gun drawn..(I do live in Arizona) shouting about Obama intimidating those going in? Especially if I was at a polling place that was mostly black.

The hate crimes bill would convict me and send me to jail…because minority groups get more protection. But blacks and minorities can do this…and Obama showed that because he said it was acceptable. This shows the scales of justice are not tipped how you think they are.

Laci said, “I am kind of shocked though, that they call themselves black panthers. I think its pretty disgusting to take the name of a respectable organization that made such a statement in our history and turn it into a hate group. Tarnishing what was once a beautiful thing.”

A beautiful thing??????????? You have got to be kidding me.
Respectable? They are a separatist group that does not want to united the races, but divide them. It pits people against each other. They are a militant group that promotes communism/socialism. They never wanted to work with police they have violent tactics to use against them.

Take a look at their ten step program…unreal. Here are a few.
WE WANT FREEDOM FOR ALL BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE NOW HELD IN U. S. FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY AND MILITARY PRISONS AND JAILS.
WE WANT TRIALS BY A JURY OF PEERS FOR All PERSONS CHARGED WITH SO-CALLED CRIMES UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.
WE WANT COMPLETELY FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE.
WE WANT AN END TO THE ROBBERY BY THE CAPITALISTS OF OUR BLACK AND OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES.
WE WANT FULL EMPLOYMENT FOR OUR PEOPLE.

And they want division……….

WE WANT FREEDOM. WE WANT POWER TO DETERMINE THE DESTINY OF OUR BLACK AND OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES.

For the most part the Panthers have always been a black nationalist hate group. They focus on militancy and have always have had a reputation for violence.

Rosie - posted on 07/10/2010

in the other clip i'd shit a brick if that was happening to me. the first clip, i'd be intimidated and uncomfortable. i'm not sure i'd leave the voting place though, unless he started talking shit like in the second video. people like that freak me out, all the hate creeps me out big time.

LaCi - posted on 07/10/2010

even in the other clip he doesn't seem intimidating. He's just another lunatic.

Gertie - posted on 07/10/2010

...in this particular clip he is not. Like I said, he looks stupid, but he's probably not. As soon as he saw that camera, he knew how to behave.

LaCi - posted on 07/10/2010

Maybe it varies. He just doesn't intimidate me. Theres a little pale girl standing around chatting on her cell phone back there, she isn't intimidated. They don't know who you're voting for. I just don't think he's frightening, it would be different if he were acting aggressively but he's really not.

Gertie - posted on 07/09/2010

It sure would....can you imagine some elderly old woman or man going up there to go vote? Those BP's knew damn well what they were doing and they were absolutely trying to intimidate people. Anyone who is honest with themselves knows that.

Plus, this is just one small video clip of them standing there...they obviously knew the camera was there, so that tells me that they shut their mouths once they saw the camera come up. They may look stupid...but I am sure they are not.

Christa - posted on 07/09/2010

@LaCi, I think just because they weren't saying anything at the voting place doesn't mean their presence wasn't intimidating. If in PA they are often out yelling in the streets the way they were in the other clip, then just seeing them there would bother me. I’m sure their reputation precedes them. I wouldn't want to walk near this man that I've seen yelling about killing white people and their babies because he hates them all while holding a baton (I don't know what the correct word is for that) that the police use to subdue unruly people. That might be enough to make me turn around.

Gertie - posted on 07/09/2010

Um....when have the black panthers ever been considered a respectable group??? It's ALWAYS been racist, dispicable organization...and it still is...

Rosie - posted on 07/09/2010

i have to respectfully disagree laci ;) if my opinion differs some regular black people, not the crazy ones in this video. i mean normal everyday people. it's happened on COM before. good old thread that was, sigh...
that whole black holes card incident that the NAACP is crying racism about is crazy, it happens alot, unfortunately.

LaCi - posted on 07/09/2010

I don't think disagreeing with these guys would make anyone-except these guys- say you're a racist.

It's free speech and nothing should be done, people are entitled to an opinion. When it gets down to the things shown in the other video, then that could be deemed criminal, inciting a riot, threatening, intimidation, whatever you want to label it as. However, I don't care if these guys hate white people. I don't care if the KKK hates.. well... everyone. It doesn't matter to me, because the only people who listen to and respect these groups are the people who already feel this way, it's small and insignificant. They have the right to feel how they feel, they don't have the right to run around telling people they need to kill people. As for intimidating voters, I didn't see them acknowledge a voter, although they should have been further away from the entrance.

I am kind of shocked though, that they call themselves black panthers. I think its pretty disgusting to take the name of a respectable organization that made such a statement in our history and turn it into a hate group. Tarnishing what was once a beautiful thing.

Rosie - posted on 07/09/2010

okay this is beyond reprehensible, and yes i agree that nobody saying anything about it is horrible. but you know we can't say anything about it in the media cause we'll be labeled racists. you can't say anything against (and i'm not talking derogatory remarks, i'm saying your opinion can't even differ from theirs) a black person these days without being labeled a racist. it's very sad to me.



i would like to address one thing about the video though. while i agree it's horrible, it looks like they are on a street, a different day, and not in front of a building like in the first segment. how are they in front of a voter place when they are in the street. once again though, no matter where it's done, it needs to be addressed, i'm just wondering why the video changed.

Kat - posted on 07/09/2010

i couldnt find the clip on youtube when he says about killing "crackers" and the white babies. i looked everywhere. so thank you Kelly Alldaffer for finding it.

LaCi - posted on 07/09/2010

I think it's strange that people are hanging out outside the doors. Thats illegal here, I thought it was everywhere. You have to be like 50 ft away from all entrances and exits.

I didn't really see any REAL intimidation, I didn't see them say anything to anyone, just standing there with the stick doesn't seem all that intimidating to me.

Is it a state law or a national law that dictates how far you must be away from entrances and exits?

Christa - posted on 07/09/2010

This is truly disgusting! How can ANYONE in this country keep quiet on this one????

Gertie - posted on 07/09/2010

Oh...one last thing...I just found out that that man I was referring to has resigned his position in the DOJ because of the racist nature of this case being dropped. I think that says a lot.

I'd like to hear more than crickets chirping on this one....

Gertie - posted on 07/08/2010

The reason you didn't hear about this is because much of our nat'l media chose to ignore it....so we must ask why! Why is this not news?

Did you all see the clip of the DOJ rep (I think) saying that the NAACP lobbied the DOJ to drop the charges? You'd think that this admin would use this as an example of how justice must be blind and take proper action, but the dismissal of this case shows where their priorities lie...in getting even. Everyone of us in this thread knows damn well that if this had been a bunch of skinheads standing in front of a polling station weilding weapons THIS admin would have seized the opportunity to make an example of them. All we are asking for is a little fairness here.

Tanya - posted on 07/08/2010

Wow I haven't heard of this. I did see that the clip was from the nat geo channel. I will have to see if i can watch some more of it. Thanks for posting that other video. I am shocked to see that they were let to have this kind of demonstration. Free speech does not include provoking others to violence.

I do think it is crap that someone dropped the charges.

Kelly - posted on 07/08/2010

Sorry, but this isn't just "scary" it is absolutely a travesty of justice. This man should be rotting in jail. Voter intimidation should NOT be allowed to happen. I guess the Obama administration knows they can't win in the fall or in 2012, and maybe they are hoping that they can intimidate more voters to change that fact? This is absolutely disgusting. The racial divide is very much alive on BOTH sides of the black / white issue. However, you won't find video of the Klan standing in front of voting sites. I really don't know what sickens me more, the fact that this happened, or the fact that apparently so many don't see it as a big deal, and even go so far as to try and justify it.

ME - posted on 07/08/2010

I just heard this on the radio a few minutes ago...the whole quote, and they do talk about killing "crackers" and their babies...it was pretty scary...I understand why people of color and many of the impoverished people in this country are angry with the wealthy, but it is just as bad to lump all white people into a single category as it is lump anyone else together...doesn't move us forward, it just holds us back...

Rosie - posted on 07/08/2010

i guess i didn't see them talking about killing anybody, is there another link that you can put up to help with that? i can't somment on the video as of now cause nothing stands out too much to me.

Tanya - posted on 07/08/2010

I didn't see them say anything about killing? Did I miss something.