As a Christian when does a baby have Soul???

Lard - posted on 03/25/2013

I have read that over 70% of conceptions do not make it full term due to the fertilized egg not implanting onto the uterus or through miscarriage within the first couple of weeks, before the woman realizes she's pregnant. After two months, miscarriage rates drop dramatically.

If souls are assigned at conception, it seems like most of them are being terminated through nothing more than, well, acts of God.

Kathleen - posted on 05/09/2011

I believe from the moment of conception the baby has a soul! I agree wth you Nellie Linn.

God bless you,
With Love in Christ,
Kate

Jeannie - posted on 10/28/2009

The Bible says that God said "I knew you before you were in the womb" so I believe that God puts the soul into the body at conception. God bless all the innocent little babies who never get to know their mommy and daddy's arms.

Luisa - posted on 08/17/2009

Quoting Elizabeth (the instigator):

Actually, Pope Benedict just recently proclaimed that unbaptized baby's souls do go to heaven, which indicates that Catholics believe the soul is present at conception. So Luisa, you are still in line with the Magisterium.

:) OH Good, I did hope so. ;)

Tamara - posted on 06/03/2009

I love this conversion. IT is a great topic. I never really thought about it much, I'm LDS like Gina. I've been taught from a young age that we we lived in heaven as spirits before we came to earth, we came to earth to be tested on our obedience to our Heavenly Father, and after this life we will be judged by The Father and Jesus Christ according to the knowledge we've obtained here and our obedience.
Like Gina, I believe that spirits exist before bodies. I have miscarried two babies and there is no way anyone could tell me that I did lose a person. You don't form that kind of bond in 11 weeks(I knew about this baby for only 3 weeks) to a body, that kind of connection is made soul to soul.
I do not understand how people can abort a pregnancy. But I do think that some pro choose people can be called Christens. A christen as far as I understand is is someone who believes and has faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. One can have a deep rooted faith in Christ and not fully understand His teachings and principles. I know I'm going to get a lot on negative reaction on that, but that is the way I feel.

Gina - posted on 05/29/2009

Wow, I thought everyone has experienced dejavu. I do believe that animals go to heaven. I do understand wanting to choose a different life, there are so many people out there that have a life that is so unfair. I just believe that we understood what our circumstances would be, and heavenly father knew it would be the life that would be a greater test for us. I believe everyone will be judged differently, so therefore I think that we shouldn't judge anyone, since we don't know about people's circumstances.

Rose - posted on 05/28/2009

I've never experienced Dejavu before?

So with animals having spirits, Gina, you believe they go to heaven when they die?

I am not sure if I had the choice to live my life over that I would..I would have chosen better parents- there are choices that I would make different now if I could relive them...even though I know those choices have made me the person I am- I would not chose to be me? Does that make any sense. Even now I would rather be in heaven with God- than living my life- even though I am happily married and have many blessings- I would give all these up to be with God in heaven?

Gina - posted on 05/28/2009

Let me explain a litte more here on Dejavu. I believe that we accepted the lives we live before we were born, and since god knows everything, he knows what decisions we will make, but still needs to give us the choice to accept it to prove our will to him. Therefore I believe that we have dejavu, since we reflected on our life before we were born. I know it's kind of deep, but that's what I believe.

Gina - posted on 05/28/2009

I know you all know my thoughts on spirits being created before life, I do believe animals have spirits too. I also believe that god is infinite. I just had to throw this in too, how would you explain dejavu? To me it is proof that our spirits existed before we were created.

Rose - posted on 05/21/2009

I have never thought the spirit was created before...I thought it was passed down from Adam through reproduction- because God breathed into Adam- He didn't just command the spirit in? Any thoughts on that?

Oh and what is the thought about God being infinite (exisiting before and after time) but we become eternal (exist after time)? Do you guys believe animals have spirits?

Just curious?

Rose - posted on 05/21/2009

I don't believe a christian can support abortion Nellie. That is why I couldn't terminate my son regardless of what the doctors told me. I knew it was a sin to do so.

Gina - posted on 05/11/2009

That's ok, I'm not offended in any way, I just see this is something that could go on and on, so I would just like to leave it at that!

Rose - posted on 05/11/2009

I am sincerly sorry Gina, for making you feel that way.....

I also have the right to stand up for God's Word.

Christa - posted on 05/05/2009

GIna I respect your beliefs and I don't think we will ever truely know, until we meet him. But I don't think comparing us to Christ is valid, Christ is so much better then any of us, I don't think his coming to be is comparable to our lives.

Nellie - posted on 05/05/2009

Gina, Thanks for the scripture. I believe God had no beginning and has no end and therefore what you said makes total sense.

Gina - posted on 05/05/2009

Let me just quote one more scripture to support what I believe. 2 Tim 1:9 " Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."



I am just stating my beliefs, and that is how I take it. I in my opinion am not taking these scriptures out of context. You believe the way you want, and I am not trying to change your beliefs, nor would I change mine. Do you believe that Christ had a soul before his life on earth? If so is it that far of a leap to believe that we also had a soul before we were born. If you believe in life after death as well, I don't think it's that much of a leap to beliefe in life before birth.



I will not write anymore on this matter. I do not like to bicker. I will however stand up for what I believe, and I don't think anyone should be bashed for doing so.

Rose - posted on 05/04/2009

I wont continue after this but the soul is the joining of the spirit and the flesh- so a baby has a soul at conception- God has put in place natural process for this to occur. There is nothing in God's word that indictes there is a pool of souls....

Rose - posted on 05/04/2009

I'm sorry Gina but i believe that verse is taken out of context...

Rose - posted on 05/04/2009

Did Adam have a soul before God breathed life into him? We need to be really careful to keep scripture in context- the bible does not contridict itself. And we really really have to be careful what we teach other people ...it is good to share with others that is a way we can learn.

Gina - posted on 05/04/2009

Jeremiah 1:5 says "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee" to me that means that god knew you before you were created. Since comception you are in the belly. I guess we can all take the bible in our own ways. I am not trying to stir up contention. I just wanted to point out my views. I am so glad your son is ok!

Rose - posted on 05/04/2009

Jerimiah 1:5 reads "Before I made you in your mother's womb, I chose you. Before you were born, I set you apart for a special work. I appointed you as a prophet to the nations". That is not saying the soul was around before conception..it is simply that God had a plan for the child before he was born- God has a plan for everyone.

Rose - posted on 05/04/2009

The soul is present when the bones and flesh are knitted together... that is what the scripture says. My youngest was shown to have a heart defect while in the womb at 21 weeks. I was told he would not survive and was pushed to terminate...i trusted God instead..David was born with a number of complications..but they all work together to support his life functions- So God taught me how He can work through natural processes to answer prayer!

Rose - posted on 05/04/2009

That is why we are warned that we cant have two masters- we cant please God and worldly people. As christians we should be standing up for Gods truth- but we are comprimising it instead - but God is still in control!

It is not what i think or what someone else thinks it is simply what God has said- speak where the bible speaks- be silent where the bible is silent- and do not add to or take away from what is written....

Gina - posted on 05/03/2009

Quoting Di:

Quoting Gina:

I believe that the baby has a soul before it's even created, and at conception I believe the soul goes to the baby.

Jer 1:5 states 'before I formed you in the womb I knew you' so I agree with you about souls being around pre conception.

That's the scripture that we were talking about in church today. I think everyone should read Jeremiah 1:5 and see how they feel.

Gina - posted on 04/30/2009

Free Will...same thing!

Christa - posted on 04/30/2009

Gina, you keep saying our "agency" what do you mean by that??

Gina - posted on 04/30/2009

I agree with all of your posts about god knowing all things. He knows what choices we will make, and he knows our potential. We have our agency to choose for ourselves. I believe like Nellie said, we have to stay close to him to be able to continue to make right choices. I guess the only things we differ on are the pre-existence. I know we all agree too that Jesus lived, and will come again. That we need to live our lives to the fullest and the best we can be. Life is too short to compare differences in religion, when a lot of us agree on the basics.

Christa - posted on 04/29/2009

You are right. I just got off the phone with my dad and had a long conversation about this. While I still can't wrap my head around the contradiction, I'm going to try. I've been a christian all my life, but I'm still relatively new. I'm still learning the bible and all it has to say. I appreciate you both, Nellie and SesiLee, for opening my eyes to a concept I'd never thought about. Thanks!!

SesiLee - posted on 04/29/2009

I think the reason for living is to expierence life. Since I believe God already has a plan for me and knows everything about me inside and out, I also believe I was put here for a reason or many reasons. I think that all the things we do little or big have a greater impact on other poeple than we think. I remember when I was fourteen I was seeing a guy that wasnt a Christain and I used to read the Bible with him. He told me five years after we broke up that he still reads and its all because of me. At the time I was reading with him I really wasnt thinking about it and now I do believe that that was part of the reason why I am here. Another reason I believe I am here right now is to raise my son and influence my husband who grew up as a Christain but drifted away in his late teens just as I did, I believe us meeting was because of Gods plan and to bring us both back to him. Although God already knows everything in your life you were put here for a reason.

Christa - posted on 04/29/2009

Thanks for the verse, SesiLee. I am going to look into this topic more, it has really gotten me thinking. If it is true that God knows everything we are going to do from the womb, then why bother living life? If it's all said and done then why does it matter? I feel like it all negates the free will. You've definitely made me think.

SesiLee - posted on 04/29/2009

I have gotten into alot of discussions and arguements about this topic. Actually I believe it comes up at least once a week at school when I am talking with strangers. God created the world and everything in it and if that is what they believe then I dont understand how people who say they are Christians can be pro-choice when it clearly states in the bible, " All the days ordained for me were written in your book before they came to be" Psalm 139:16. My interpertation of that passage is that God already knew us before we were concived which is why as a Christian I believe that a child has a soul and God already knows his entire life way before he was even thought of being conceived. I have heard arguements from all sides on this that used to just make me angry but after a while I have realized that it really doesnt matter what other people think and I cant do anymore than just state my opinion and stand up for my opinion on the subject. I do however understand that you have to fight for what you believe and I do to a certain extent. Ive just realized you cant change everybody's mind. On the other hand it is comforting when I talk to people who share my point of view. It really makes me feel like I am not the only one because I often feel like that which is why I joined this group. :) thanks for having me

Christa - posted on 04/29/2009

You are right, I guess we will never know for sure, but I am going to look into it further. It has made me think. :-)

Nellie - posted on 04/28/2009

I understand what you are trying to say but let me see if I can make myself clearer. God knows everything from start to end. It is not for us to understand. He knew you before you were conceived. Just because he knows our choices before we make them doesn't mean he is going to stop them. Just because we have free will doesn't mean he doesn't know what we are going to do. Our lives are not predetermined and we will never know the true answer to this argument until we ourselves can ask him. But thanks for getting me to think!!! ;)

Christa - posted on 04/28/2009

I know that's what I'm saying, it's our choice. This started because Gina made the comment about being tested. We are constantly tested and it's not predetermined what choice we will make. If God knew what choices we were going to make before we knew we were going to make them then that would negate free will. I may not be articulating it clearly. I'm not denying that God is all knowing, I just don't think he knows exactly what we will do from birth until death while we are still in the womb. That would mean our life has already been determined, if that were the case why would we do anything. Why would we try and bring non-believers to the lord if it was all already predetermined? If I had made different choices I could be an atheist now, would that have been God's plan for me? I have to think not. He has a plan, but if we don't follow it then we end up in hell and I truly don't believe God would have babies in the womb destined for hell. And lets face it there are some that will end up in hell, because they didn’t follow God’s will.

Nellie - posted on 04/28/2009

Sorry Christa I have to disagree. You are not giving God enough credit. He is all knowing so much so that we can not comprehend. Only in the end will we truely know he's plan. He created the world perfect but b/c of the fall of Adam & Eve evil came to the world and just b/c we go down a wrong path it dosn't mean that God doesn't know and that is why he didn't stop us. He will not stop our free will b/c it is our gift from him but he guides us and evil is fighting him, so if we are not listening then we will make the wrong choice.

Christa - posted on 04/28/2009

He doesn't know what path you will choose. He knows things when you know things. Because we have a choice he doesn't know which choice we choose until we know. This started about a baby in the womb, and he doesn't know if you will make the right choices and come back to him later in life while you are still in the womb. If that were the case then we wouldn't have free will. God does have a plan, but it is up to us to figure out how to follow it. He is all knowing, but he can't know what you will do before you do it. He guides us and tries to lead us to the correct path, but it is ultimately our choice.



If he knew what path each of us were going to take from the womb, why would he need us to live life? Why would he bother giving the babies life that he knew were going to tke the wrong path? The whole world would follow Jesus and end up in Heaven if he knows what we are going to do before we do it.



Do you understand the point I'm trying to make? While you are right he does know our thoughts and he knows our actions before we make them, but he doesn't know what choice I will make in two weeks when I come to a crossroads, because I don't know what the crossroads is yet so I definitely don't know which choice I'm going to make. Therefore he can't know, he knows what crossroad may be coming, but he has to wait for me to get there before he knows what I will do. God must constantly try and steer us back on our path when we have strayed, but that means we have strayed. I hope I've made my point clear, I feel like I rambled a bit. :-)

Arwen - posted on 04/28/2009

Yes, indeed, He does know what you will do before you do it! LOL God gave you free will which means He will not make you do anything. It doesn't mean that He's ignorant to what's going on in your head. He knows what you will do, and He will plan around that, but He won't take away your will.

Gina - posted on 04/28/2009

Exactly, we are born with our agency, and that's what satan would like to take away. If we didn't have to be tested, then why would we have to follow jesus, and try to be the best we could be.

Christa - posted on 04/27/2009

We are all tested. You must choose Jesus to get to heaven, God gave us free will. Therefore he doesn't know what path we will choose and if we will be back to meet him in heaven. That's my beliefs.

Arwen - posted on 04/27/2009

That's a strange way of believing, that you need a test. It would imply to me that it was believed God didn't know everything. That He wasn't all knowing, and that He actually needed satan to do some work for him, huh?



God: Hey there, Behelzebub... I was wondering if you could do Me a favor... Not too sure about this new batch of souls here, not sure they're right for this place... Give them a test drive for Me? You know, the usual: walk them up and down the earth a few times. You're just so good at walking up and down the earth, you know...



I might just be a little confused as to what you're saying, Gina. It's not too clear to me.

Gina - posted on 04/27/2009

You're welcome, I know we all have different beliefs, and I respect everyones beliefs.

Christa - posted on 04/27/2009

Thanks for sharing, Gina. I've never heard that side of things before. I don't think I agree with that, it doesn't make much sense to me, but I do appreciate your opinion. Thanks!! :-)

Gina - posted on 04/26/2009

If you are curious about our beliefs and it tells you more about what we believe about the pre-existence go to http: //www.mormon.org. If you get on basic beliefs it talks about the pre-existence.

Gina - posted on 04/26/2009

We don't know how many souls there are, we know that Heavenly Father is in control of all things, and he has a plan for each one. That's probably why in our religion there are so many large families. That doesn't mean that we all just have babies irresponsibly. We also believe that some babies who are miscarried or whatever were so good, that they didn't need a test to come down and be born. I know this all probably sounds strange to someone who's never heard this before, but to me it makes perfect sense, I couldn't imagine believing any other way.

Christa - posted on 04/26/2009

Gina, I have been wondering, you say there is this "pool" of souls just waiting to be given to babies. Is there a certain number of souls? What if people don't have enough babies? What if people have too many, will a child be born without a soul? It just doesn't seem like the most efficient way of doing things, I would think God could produce souls on demand to avoid any overages or shortages. I would love some clarification on your beliefs.

Gina - posted on 04/26/2009

Quoting Arwen:

I believe the soul is created when the baby is conceived. It is said that no one has been to heaven (before death, I mean). Can you imagine God having a store of souls up there, and dishing them out? If you were a soul in heaven, would you go to earth at the risk of being raised a serious non-believer of Jesus? Why would you leave heaven and risk hell?

God knows you before you are born because He is omnificent and all knowing. He doesn't need you to already be there so He can know you. And He's not surprised, He's just that awesome!

We believe that we are created before birth, because we believe that we have to choose good in this life as well, it's a test. It makes sense to me, we believe faith without works is dead, so in order to prove that faith we must act, and be the best we can be.

Arwen - posted on 04/25/2009

I believe the soul is created when the baby is conceived. It is said that no one has been to heaven (before death, I mean). Can you imagine God having a store of souls up there, and dishing them out? If you were a soul in heaven, would you go to earth at the risk of being raised a serious non-believer of Jesus? Why would you leave heaven and risk hell?



God knows you before you are born because He is omnificent and all knowing. He doesn't need you to already be there so He can know you. And He's not surprised, He's just that awesome!

Di - posted on 04/25/2009

Ok so here is what I am told is the Church's stance. There is something called baptism of desire. This is what I was talking about before about if the parents were going to baptise the child. But it also relates to the Church as a family of God. It would be a desire on the part of the family for these children to be baptised and know and love God. So it is the Church's desire for all children to be baptised, especially the ones that die in utero. With aborted babies in particular, they are aligned to the feast of The Holy Innocents. These are the babies that Herod killed around Jesus' birth. Their feast day is celebrated and the Church offers many masses and many many prayers for these innocent children, both from Herod's day and the many many innocent little bubs that die through abortion. I hope this clears up the matter about what the belief of the Catholic Church. Me personally, I would be surprised and dismayed if God didn't welcome them.

Di - posted on 04/24/2009

Quoting Nellie:

 

Quoting Di:

The Catholic Church has always believed that the soul is present at conception. I think what Luisa was referring to was some old thing that used to be around about unbaptised babies, not being able to go straight to heaven and going to a place called Limbo. My mother-in-law had a stillborn child over 45 years ago and the priest told her that as long as the intent to baptise was there then the child would be seen as 'baptised' and be able to enter heaven. I was told the same thing with my two miscarriages that as long as my intent was to have them baptised they would be welcomed in heaven. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

So a baby is only going to heaven if the mother's intent was to baptise him or her....so then what happens to all the aborted babies???

 

Nellie, I don't know. I would hope that God would welcome them but that isn't my call. This thread is about when babies have souls, I didn't think it was a debate about aborted babies and their entry into heaven. I was writing in terms of the Catholic Church and their guidance to parents who are distressed about miscarried and stillborn children. I was only trying to clarify the Catholic Church's belief about babies and souls. I can research if you want about what the Church's belief is for the poor little aborted children if you like. I would be happy to do so.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/24/2009

Limbo was where all righteous souls went before Christ, and the Church used to say unbaptized babies souls went there until the Pope made his recent statement. Of course God would never refuse a seat at His table to an innocent soul, which is why the Holy Innocents who were killed in the place of baby Jesus have a place of honor in Heaven. Anyway, yes the Church has definitely always taught the presence of the soul at conception.