Have you ever changed someone's mind?

Angie - posted on 04/22/2009

I agree 100% with you Elizabeth. I think the reason that NFP has gotten such a bad wrap is because to prevent pregnancy both man and wife have to be responsible and not give in to "animal" instincts from time to time. My husband and I used the CCC method very successfully until I had my hysterectomy 4 years ago.....

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/22/2009

In my opinion, if both the pill and NFP have similar success rates, than pro-lifers probably want to err on the side of caution. The pill also carries with it controversy over possible physiological side effects given the fact that it entails ingesting potent chemicals, not the least of which is possible breakthrough pregnancy with birth defects (2 very close friends recently experienced this).

Christa - posted on 04/22/2009

I did do some research and there is no definitive data to support that "the pill" causes abortions. Here is an article I found discussing both sides of the argument. http://www.prolifephysicians.org/abortif...



I personally don't have a problem with the pill, I would rather women be on that then to try the natural cycle tracking method and get pregnant and then knowingly have an abortion.



I've never heard the argument against the pill so thank you for sharing that point of view.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/22/2009

"Natural Family Planning is fertility awareness, the knowledge of a couple's fertility. It is a means of reading a woman's signs of fertility and infertility. The Couple to Couple League teaches three basic signs of fertility — temperature, mucus and cervix — and how to apply this knowledge through the Sympto-Thermal Method (STM) of NFP, which can be used both to achieve and to avoid or postpone pregnancy." (www.ccli.org/nfp)
It boasts 99% success rate and has NO side effects as it is completely natural. I also have friends who are using the new electronic fertility monitors with great results as well.

Victoria - posted on 04/21/2009

So is there a "safe and reliable" contraceptive besides barrier method or sterilization? I know there is the rhythm method, but I also know there are a lot of women who are not blessed with regular cycles.

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/20/2009

Stasia, the Pill has three mechanisms of action which can easily be looked up in the Physician's Desk Reference. The Pill is supposed to suppress ovulation. When this happens, an egg is not released and conception cannot occur. BUT the Pill is not 100% effective in preventing ovulation and fertilization (breakthrough) and therefore can cause early abortions by interfering with the flexing motions and the cilia movement of the fallopian tubes. These changes slow the transportation of newly conceived child from the fallopian tubes to the womb. Unfortunately, many small babies starve to death in the fallopian tubes because chemicals caused changes that prevented them from reaching the womb in time to be nourished.
If your tiny baby survives the ride down the fallopian tube to your womb, the Pill will almost always cause the endometrium (the lining of your uterus) to reject your child. Chemical reactions often cause the lining of your womb to become thin, shriveled and unable to support implantation of your newly conceived child. This means that in almost every case, your new child will not be able to attach to the wall of your womb where he or she would normally live, grow and receive nourishment for 9 months. This means your tiny baby will starve to death and his or her remains will be passed along in your next bleeding cycle. (The "Study of Abortion Deaths Commission" estimates that this happens in women in America who use the Pill approximately 1 to 4 million times each year.)

1) Norplant has breakthrough ovulation 50-65% of the time.
2) Depo-Provera has breakthrough ovulation 40-60% of the time.
3) The IUD has breakthrough ovulation 100% of the time. (does not prevent ovulation)
4) With over 17 million American women using the Pill and other chemical abortifacients, it is estimated that breakthough ovulation and pregnany occurs so often . . . that between 7 to 12 million newly conceived children are killed by chemical abortions in the womb each year. And most of these women never even knew they were pregnant.
I hope this is helpful!
(Sources for the four points listed under Breakthrough Ovulation Estimates above are as follows: 1) Hilgers, Dr. Thomas, "Norplant" Linacre Quarterly, 1993, p.64-69. 2) "Infant Homicides Through Contraceptives," 1994 by the Study of Abortion Deaths Ad Hoc Commission - Bardstown, KY. Ph: 502-348-3963. 3) ibid. 4) ibid.)

Stasia - posted on 04/20/2009

Elizabeth, could you explain to me exactly what it is the pill does to be called an abortifacient? I was told by my doctor that the pill will cause you not to ovulate, and so no egg is present to be fertilized. I have only just begun to hear anything about it being an abortifacient and am curious which pills, and by what scientific studies this has been proven or not.
Thanks I would really appreciate it!!!!
Oh, and great stories I think that is awesome!!! By converting even ONE other woman to pro life, think of the ripple effect and how these women will go on to educate others as well!

Elizabeth (the Instigator) - posted on 04/17/2009

I have three "success" stories I would like to share. My mother abandoned my father with four children, moving clear across the country, when I was 4. She visited occasionally but could not care for us effectively. She was a staunch liberal, and as a teenager I simply refused to talk to her more than I had to. At 19, I helped her move back to CT to live closer to us and on that 4 day road trip, we had the first real conversation ever. She started out agnostic and pro-abortion, and believe me there were moments I wished I had never spoken, but in the end, I could rebuke all of her arguments scientifically and stressed the proofs of life present in the womb; heart beats, brain waves, thumbsucking. By the time we reached home she could no longer call herself pro-abortion, but it took another few conversations for her to fully embrace pro-life. 15 years later, and just slightly Christian, she will tell you what Stasia said, with education no woman could choose abortion.
The second is a friend of mine who had 2 abortions in college. She wasn't forced into them, she chose them from hardness of heart. When I first started talking to her, she tried to dismiss me with claims that I was judging her and her promiscuous lifestyle, but persistence and compassion paid off and she fully repented of those sins, named her angels in heaven, and embraced her Catholic faith. However, she still experiences deep suffering over those tragic mistakes of her youth, and seeks to help others learn from her experience, volunteering at our local crisis pregnancy center.
The third was actually while sidewalk counseling outside Planned Parenthood. I was the only female, not to mention the only person under 50 years of age. We were very unassuming, but this African American woman was walking past me trying to ignore my pamphlet until I mentioned partial-birth abortion. She stopped and argued that it only happens in extreme cases but we pro-lifers use it to justify taking away women's reproductive rights. I showed her pictures and national statistics and she was horrified! She turned the discussion to responsible parenthood and contraception and I informed her that most non-barrier contraception was, in fact, abortifacient, more facts and pictures. She choked up while speaking and asked for as many pamphlets we could give her for her apartment complex, because everyone she knew was on the pill.
So, it does work, we just have to be non-wavering and realize that most times their claims that we are judging them is just a very effective ploy to intimidate us.
I absolutely agree with Stasia that we Christians assume too often that others care what the Bible says. Keep it simple, keep it factual, have compassion and persevere!

Stasia - posted on 04/14/2009

Christa I completely agree!! When I got pregnant my doctor said got so irritated at me that I felt uncomfortable with abortion. She rolled her eyes and said "its NOT a baby, its a clump of cells!!!"
That was word for word what she said. I am curious what she would call my beautiful girl now. But in thinking about it from a biological perspective (as Im sure most doctors do) aren't we ALL just a clump of cells? Somewhat bigger of course, but made up of exactly the same components as when we were in the womb?

Christa - posted on 04/07/2009

It really saddens me all that I'm learning about those working in abortion clinics etc. How can they live with being responsible for killing that many babies? What is there excuse, they have to know all the facts they are in the profession? It's those people I truly can't understand. The scared pregnant women, I can at least see that they are scared and most of the time uneducated about abortion/childbirth, this doesn't make for good decision making. But the healthcare providers? How do you get through to them??

Stasia - posted on 04/07/2009

thats a great story Kristen, it is awful how little education there is out there on the negative aspects of abortion. When I got pregnant I went to a doctor who said " you dont even know the father that well, you need to have an abortion, it is un fair to the baby to be born into these circumstances.
with pressure like that it can be really confusing for women in a vulnerable situation. It brainwashes women.

Kristen - posted on 04/06/2009

I agree with you Christa, on not condeming those who are pro-chioce.  Most women that take that stand believe that it is a good thing for women.  No pro-chioce women are out protesting to kill babies.  They are just not shown the full truth about the lives inside these women, and the negative impact it has on their mind and body.

I talked to a teenage girl about abortion.  She always said that if she got pregnant, she would have an abortion.  She was into sports, and said she wouldn't want to ruin the rest of her life by having a baby.  She also gave the reason that bringing  a child into this world would be cruel.  This girl had a 5 year old neice that she is basically raising, because her sister got pregnant and didn't really want to take care of her.  This just confirmed her stand in being pro-choice.  

I brought this question to her in a non-threatening way.  I have four kids.  I had them when my husband and I were in a good place financially.  I told her that since then money is tight and having 4 kids really is too hard, would it be okay, if I was to have one of my kids be terminated by a lethal injection?  It is my life, and she doesn't need to grow up in this cruel world, so I would be doing the humane thing, right?  She said no.  I asked her why it was wrong in this case but not in the other.  She said that it was because an embryo was not a real life.  I asked her why it wasn't.  She said that it cannot sustain life on it's own without the mother.  I then asked her if my six month old could sustain life without me feeding her.  She understood my point, and it caused her to search it out more.  She is pro-life now and very strongly passionate about telling others about her view.  I don't think that what I said caused her to change her mind right then and there, but it caused her to think about it and search it out.  Looking back, it makes her mad that they didn't teach about all the negitive aspects of having an abortion at her school.  She said that they really push it as a wise decision for a young person.  They never even brought up adoption.  They told her if you get pregnant, you will either get an abortion ( or plan B pill), or ruin your chances of ever having a successful life.   That was just a story about one of my experiences.  Sorry it was so long.   

Christa - posted on 04/06/2009

Thanks for sharing your story. I really think it's important to know your audience. That's why I wrote this in the first place, I'm not sure if you say some of the conversations going on around here, but there are some that feel that ambushing pro-choicers and damning them to hell is the appropriate approach and I just don't think that does any good, in fact it probably does more harm. I appreciate your point of view, Thanks!!

Stasia - posted on 04/06/2009

Well I became pregnant with my daughter and I was living in a 400 sq ft.studio apartment with my boyfriend and big dog at the age of 20. I was just returning to school and neither of us worked much. We had decided we were more for the ski bum life than anything.
When I found out, I didnt know what to do. I had always been pro choice and it definitely wasn't the right time... I called my mom and told her what was going on. She told me that either way my life would never be the same. The one thing she did though was direct me to a website that showed real images week by week of an unborn baby. I was seven weeks along and she told me my baby had little fingers. I hung up the phone realizing it wasn't cells inside me, or a clump of tissue, but that the shrimpy nubby fingered little thing inside me was alive.

Honestly I think because no one pressured me to change. Someone I trusted just gently said the words that made me realize it is actually a BABY even though I cant see it yet.

Also, I must say that the video on here had a huge impact on me. I went from "being pro life but whatever you do is your business" to feeling like I really need to do something.

Christa - posted on 04/06/2009

That's great Stasia! That's exactly what I was thinking about. Since you aren't a chrisitian what got you to change your view?

Stasia - posted on 04/06/2009

With education I don't believe any woman would ever have an abortion. I mean education in understanding exactly what her baby feels and looks like. I agree with Nellie, if you are religious then prayer definitely does not hurt.

One mistake I think many religious pro life mothers make is when they bring in quotes from the bible to support their case. The majority of pro choice women are not Christians, so when people start spouting off "thou shalt not kill" it just gives the pro choicer the image that being pro life is for religious nuts. Another point to consider is that women who are not Christian often get women who ARE Christian trying to persuade them to Christian ways. As a non christian this can be irritating and I just smile, nod and carry on without listening anymore. (that being said I so understand that these messages are out of love) The problem is that when this happens, atheists, pro choice-whatever you are- you start to ignore people that begin preaching to you about what the bible says or what is right and wrong.

Just though I would offer a perspective from the reformed pro choice atheist. I know most of you are religious and I respect that completely. In spreading messages like pro life however, I think it is important to remember the audience to which we are speaking and stick to the choice of words that would reach them most clearly. It is ultimately not who is right and wrong and whether you put up a good argument, I think the best thing to hope for is having someone leave a conversation curious about what you said "Oh, I didn't know that by eight weeks my baby has fingers, toes and eyelids to blink with... My baby blinks..."