Abortion..What do you think?

Kristen - posted on 03/25/2009 ( 460 moms have responded )

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so i was watching the news a while back and i saw where a group was protesting abortion. see the anniversary of roe vs. wade was coming up which is the court case that made abortion legal. it seems that abortion rates are the lowest ever since 1974 which i think is awesome. the next thing i know so called "experts" come on saying this actually isn't a good thing because that just means people are continuing on with unwanted pregnancies because they can't afford abortions. it really pisses me off that people consider it ok to play God and stop a beating heart by brutally taking it from it's mother's womb. being a 21year old single mother myself i know it's hard. but how can anyone be so much of a coward that they end a life that they created instead of working their butts off to sustain it and protect it. what are these people going to tell these babies when they are face to face with them in heaven, i'm sorry hunny whatever was going on in my life at the time was more important than giving you a chance to have a life. if you are too inconsiderate and self absorbed to do what you need to do to take care of a baby, give it up for adoption, give him or her a chance to be born. i think if abortion wasn't an option everyone knew that they had, people would be more careful when having sex or obstain from it all together. if ur adult enough to lay down and create a life you need to be adult enough to take responsibility for it. and this crap about it's only a group of cells and it's my body i should be able to do what i want is a cop out. It is a baby from conception! in no way is it right or ok to terminate a pregnancy at any stage, to selectively reduce a multiple pregnancy, or to even end a pregany after tests show the child may have a disability. these tests done at around 12 weeks are not 100% accurate. positive tests could result in a perfectly healthy baby, and often do. a child is not an illness that someone should be able to just get rid of. so in my opinion abortion should be completely illegal, voice your opinion that's the only way things will ever change.

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Kristin - posted on 04/06/2012

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I agree that if you think you are adult enough for sex, you are adult enough for the consequences. But part of that does include the ability to talk about and deciding how to handle the consequences.



Everyone is allowed to make their own choice in this. Personally, I would rather women have unlimited access to as much birth control as they want and for sex ed to start before puberty hits and include ALL the biological info. My childbirth prep class from my first pregnancy would have scared the crap out of the kids I knew were having sex in high school. I would rather kids really understand that all it takes is one time and their future could be royally derailed. I would like minors to feel okay with talking to their parents and potential partners about having safe sex BEFORE they engage in it. I hope parents tell their children what they expect and want for them when it comes to sex and their future without preaching and mandating. I hope that parents talk to their kids about the ethics and morals and family values before intercourse occurs. I would hope that parents would support their child through ANY decision their now very much so adult child makes about the consequences of sex. But, let's face reality, my thoughts and feeling scream my idealism.



We are human and make choices every day, some good and some bad. I want women to have full access to information on all options without having another person shame or guilt them into continuing to make additional bad choices. While I would prefer women be able to prevent unwanted pregnancies 100% of the time, birth control can fail and abstaining doesn't work for everyone. I don't want to go back to the days of traveling "doctors" performing in back rooms with coat hangers. I don't want to go back to women having "accidents" that cause miscarriage. I don't want to go back to women suiciding because they feel they have no other options.



Women and families need a lot more support and understanding and a whole lot less judgement handed down. We as a culture need to educate our children and share our stories so we don't repeat the past. We all have the freedom to make our own choices about parenthood. Think about it. We get to decide when, how many, keep or not, surrogacy, adoption, IVF, treatments. Shouldn't we be grateful for the blessing we have and leave the judgement to a higher authority?

Pam - posted on 04/04/2012

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Tara, I have never heard an adoptee say they wish they had been aborted, some are angry that they were given up, some greatful their mom gave them life...but never have I heard one say they wish they had been aborted.

DoubleA - posted on 03/12/2012

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I don't believe in abortion. Myself I could never have one. I had my first child 4 years ago.she was planned. Abortion never crossed my mind. But then I got an oppsey. And got pregnant again an now have a 4 month old. And this time it did cross my mind. Here's the reasons... I learned te mistakes I made the first time and how my child had to live. Which has just gotten worse! She was shuffled from mom to dads. Not a stable environment. Society wonders why ppl are so messed up in the head now a days. Then her dad didn't want to see her for the next couple years.... So pure disappointment there. So I let it go and decided she was better without. Well then out of the blue he takes me to court and now gets to see her 6 days a month. (yeah not very much). But he also gets to step back into my life and dictate everything that I do with my daughter, takes away my holidays, and puts restrictions on anything he doesn't like. I need to report mostly anything or any decision I make in my life to him( basically because my life is my child). Everything that I've done that I've wanted with my daughter in the past 4 years is not aloud. I need permission to take her on vacation, where to put her in school, times and places of appointments, my insurance info. Which he comes to none ,nor takes her. So I'm doing all te work while he sits back and figures out how to make mine and her life miserable. Not to mention its not even him doing the speaking. It's his girlfriend. Apparently I had a child with his girlfriend. They treat the child horrible when she's there. Yell at her , call her stupid, talk down about her, punish her for no reason... But back to the point .... Yes I made the decision to have sex. I took the plan b pill. I still got prego with #2. I wasn't married, didn't finish my education, ... Was I bringing another child to live a miserable life. Was I bringing another child into society that isnt going to struggle... This was nothing about me or what anyone else thought. Yes I made a mistake to have sex. But wouldn't it be a mistake to have a child if it would live a horrible life. I couldn't bring myself to do it. Because I feel wrong about it. But I believe it's an individual choice. What if te person was on birth control and protecting themselves?! And then got pregnant. What if the girl was in an abusive marriage? A child be born into abuse? What if the mother is around illegal drugs, she should still have the baby when she herself knows that she isn't going to stop drugs.? And then even maybe sell the baby for drug money or have the child exposed to that. Yes adoption is a great idea. But again. I couldn't bond with a baby for 40 weeks then just give them up. And do you really think an abusive husband is really going to let you give up for adoption.? I believe it's individual right. There's just too many senarios.

Mother - posted on 03/08/2012

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" I think patients should be allowed to sue if a doctor omits information, even if it WAS unintentional. All patients, male or female, conservative or liberal, have a RIGHT to full and complete disclosure of their medical situation, test results, etc."

-- completely agree. Well, I'm off to bed. night.

Krista - posted on 03/08/2012

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It's one of those laws that says one thing, but can be interpreted an entirely different way.



They say that the intent of the law was to avoid "wrongful life" lawsuits. So if the doctor missed something, and the baby had severe birth defects and required round-the-clock care, the parents could not sure the doctor for the cost of the child's care, saying that were it not for the doctor missing that info, they would have aborted.



However, they could have simply gotten around that by disallowing wrongful life lawsuits.



Because this law is written broadly, it could also be interpreted to say that a couple cannot sue a doctor, period, if he omits information about the pregnancy. As I said downthread, there is a provision that says you can still sue if you can prove intent. But holy crap, that's a lot easier said than done!



I'm sure that MOST doctors in Arizona are ethical, but there are likely some who would put their ideology above all else, and who would "misinterpret" test results in order to keep women in the dark, so as to not give them the opportunity to contemplate abortion.



Basically, this law opens the door for that type of doctor to wiggle around the system, and omit information to patients.



And, as I said on another blog, frankly, I think patients should be allowed to sue if a doctor omits information, even if it WAS unintentional. All patients, male or female, conservative or liberal, have a RIGHT to full and complete disclosure of their medical situation, test results, etc. If a doctor or two gets sued over an "oops", and all physicians become much more conscientious as a result, then that's not necessarily a bad thing, is it?

Krista - posted on 03/08/2012

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Yup. There is a provision that says that you can still sue if the doctor deliberately withholds information, but it can be REALLY hard to prove intent. The doctor could easily say that the test results were inconclusive, or some other such thing.

Merril - posted on 03/08/2012

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Krista, That is terrible. I would think however that if your doctor keeps this from you, and you died, I would hope your husband could sue the doctor. If this happened, I would think that a scenario like that would lead to a lawsuit which would probably go all the way to the Supreme Court.

Krista - posted on 03/08/2012

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Had to bring your attention to this:



http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/07/...



The Arizona Senate passed a bill this week that gives doctors a free pass to not inform pregnant women of prenatal problems because such information could lead to an abortion. In other words, doctors can intentionally keep critical health information from pregnant women and can’t be sued for it.



Exhibit A in the WRONG way to go about being pro-life. So technically, if your pregnancy was showing signs of endangering your life, your doctor could choose to just keep that little tidbit to himself, so that you don't run off and get an abortion.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/06/2012

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Nope, that disturbs me too... Although, for me, pro-life and anti-abortion are two slightly different things.



Anti-abortion is when you simply do not agree with abortion but sometimes with slight exceptions (when there is severe deathly illness involved for the fetus).



Pro-life for me means just that. I believe in all life. However, I will agree that a life that has already been substantiated with feelings and personhood should be protected first. So, as I said before. A pregnant mother - that has children at home - that falls severely ill, one that could cause death if she continues should be able to abort. It is those children sitting at home that need her more than the fetus within her.



Just my take on the two. How I feel the two differ, slightly.

Krista - posted on 03/06/2012

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Well, if the woman chooses an abortion, then the baby dies. And yes, that is sad as hell.



But I look at it this way: a 14-year-old girl who has been raped KNOWS she's been raped. She has thoughts, feelings and emotions. She is a sentient being. She has feelings, and she has been violated in the worst way possible. Her power over her own body has been taken from her by force. I cannot, in good conscience, say that the courts should have the right to take her power away a second time. And, like I mentioned below, in many cases these babies would die anyway, either due to the mother forcibly miscarrying, or due to her harming herself.



Even though a 7-week embryo is on its way to becoming a beautiful baby, it is still not a sentient being who can feel pain. Abortion is tragic, because it is snuffing out potential. But if you ask me where my sympathies lie, they lie with the person who is conscious, who knows what is being done to her, and who is suffering.



I have a question, actually, that I've been wondering about: when most people talk about being pro-life, they are speaking about being anti-abortion. And yet, I rarely, if ever, hear people protesting about fertility clinics. In 2003, it was estimated that over 400,000 frozen embryos were languishing in vats at fertility clinics across America -- with most winding up being destroyed. How come this seems to be so ignored by the pro-life movement? Is it because they weren't created via intercourse, and aren't in a womb, and hence seem to be less of a "baby"?

Krista - posted on 03/06/2012

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Needless to say I was raped at 14. No, I didn't get pregnant, I was lucky. If I had, I would now have a 22 year old. It wasn't my fault for being raped but it was not the babies fault either! Two wrongs does NOT make a right in my world.



And that would have been the right decision for you. However, I find it cruel to legally force a young girl who has been so violated, into the ordeal of carrying her rapist's child for 9 months and going through labour and childbirth.



I remember being pregnant with my son, and how invaded I sometimes felt. I no longer felt as though my body was my own. Things were happening that were well beyond control and it was a little bit overwhelming and frightening at times. And this was with a baby who was desperately wanted and planned for. I cannot imagine how it would feel if that pregnancy was the result of something as horrific as rape.



Plus, let us not forget something: if a young girl is being forced by law to carry a pregnancy borne of rape, the odds are fairly good that she will try to make herself miscarry. And if she succeeds in miscarrying, she'll probably have hurt herself quite badly as well. If she doesn't succeed in miscarrying, she may have damaged the baby to the point where he/she will require serious special needs, and sadly to say, will be much less likely to be adopted.



When you take away choices from desperate people, they will do crazy things. Some may even kill themselves, and then you have two lives lost.

Joy - posted on 03/06/2012

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MeMe - Moi :-* (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen)



The only person who can decide if one is a good candidate for abortion is the person carrying the child.



I am me, I have an opinion. I get to decide what "I" feel is correct. Just as you have an opinion and "you" get to decide how you feel on ending a fetus/babies life for "unjust" reasoning. ;)



Correct. I get to decide. No one else. And the reasons behind that decisions are also mine, so I am the only one who can decide if they are unjust or not.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/06/2012

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Actually anti-abortionists expect those that have the sex to carry through with their responsibilities.



I am me, I have an opinion. I get to decide what "I" feel is correct. Just as you have an opinion and "you" get to decide how you feel on ending a fetus/babies life for "unjust" reasoning. ;)



I have no problem with you leaving your opinion. It is just that, your opinion. I am being courteous. I answered only to explain that you were using another's words and deciding how that should be played out. That's it, that's all.



Here is a true example. If I had followed your logic (and some other's here) I would have NO children. However, I have two.



When I got pregnant with my daughter at the age of 22, I was not married. The "sperm donor" took off. I had no real roof over my head. I had NO money. I was pretty much a bum. I was the perfect candidate for an abortion, no?



However, I knew becoming pregnant was my own fault. I knew I "had" to grow up and take control. So, I did. I got my ass in gear. Yep, I had to use the system for 6 years. Although in that 6 years I completed 4 years of schooling. I finished my high school in 1 year and went on to 3 years secondary schooling. I now make very very good money and have a career I have been working on for 7 years. I took care of my responsibilities. I did not give up on me or my unborn child.



Now, for my 2nd child. I was told at 12 weeks that he had a 75% chance of having DS. Another perfect candidate for abortion, no? I said, no way. Blood screening is not 100% accurate. At 20 weeks I was given a high contrast ultrasound. That came back with a 30% chance of DS. I was given the "talk". I was told I could choose to abort. Are you kidding me? I have already felt this baby moving. I have already listened to his heart beat. I already knew he was a he! I already seen him at 10 weeks jumping inside of me, like a little jumping bean. I am the one that put him there. How could I get rid of him just because he may not be "perfect"?



So, there you go. There is my story. I had 3 pregnancies. 2 of which I had very so-called reasonable situations to abort. The other aborted without my consent at 10 weeks.



If you want to support abortion that is your deal. It is simply not mine. I have lived through reasons where I could have had one.



Needless to say I was raped at 14. No, I didn't get pregnant, I was lucky. If I had, I would now have a 22 year old. It wasn't my fault for being raped but it was not the babies fault either! Two wrongs does NOT make a right in my world.



Although, I must say. I do respect everyone's opinion, it just does not mean I have to agree. I have had some dozy experiences and I survived quite fine. So did my children....

Joy - posted on 03/06/2012

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Hi MeMe - Moi :-* (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) .



First, no one was brow beaten in my comment. Nor is that how I operate but can spot it quite easily after the many years I've spent in Counselling.



I'm going to use myself as an example so no offence can be taken by anything I say. If I got pregnant, it is still my body. The secondary body you make mention of needs me to survive. Therefore without me, it perishes. The opposite is not true. So, for whatever reason I choose to abort, the decision is solely mine. We can all give many examples of heart wrenching situation the fact still remains, it is the person who will carry, give birth and be responsible for that pregnancy. Taking away someone's right to have control over their own body is wrong.



I only answered because you have decided to depict other's opinions in your comment. Therefore you are not only leaving your opinion. You are trying to rationalize your opinion by countering another. You just did some brow beaten yourself. Saying that those that disagree with abortion should take their part and carry a baby for those that really want one. Huh? We carried our baby(ies) and did our part, didn't we?



You do have a flare for the dramatics. I never said people who oppose abortion should take their part and carry a baby for those that really want one. I said, in that specific incidence, that was something that girl could do for her friends. I don't know why that would be any less appropriate. Anti-abortionists expect someone else to carry an unwanted baby to term even tho, they may also have jobs and lives. Or worse, no job and no life or unfavourable situations.



The cards have already been dealt, no? If it is already happening than why not do the right thing and give the baby to someone that will love and cherish them?



True. The cards have been dealt but who are you to decide what the right thing is, for someone else?



You are trying to rationalize your opinion by countering another.



When someone asks for an opinion, you give it. When a differing opinion comes into play, it is countered. That is normally how things work on opinion posts. You have disagreed with many posters on here, it is only proper that you extend the same courtesy.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/06/2012

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Not everyone can be a surrogate. Some people have to work. Some people already made their bed and lied in it, by being a woman and taking care of their responsibilities. Give that baby to someone that wants it. The cards have already been dealt, no? If it is already happening than why not do the right thing and give the baby to someone that will love and cherish them?



I have always wonder though, how is it your body when it is a body inside of yours? It may be your body holding that baby but that baby has a body too. A father doesn't have the ability to carry the baby and get's no say in the matter of abortion but, just because you are a woman you get to make that choice? Whatever, it's selfish. Some father's would raise the child and don't get the chance or the choice; some woman are just selfish.



I only answered because you have decided to depict other's opinions in your comment. Therefore you are not only leaving your opinion. You are trying to rationalize your opinion by countering another. You just did some brow beaten yourself. Saying that those that disagree with abortion should take their part and carry a baby for those that really want one. Huh? We carried our baby(ies) and did our part, didn't we?



I fail to see how being a surrogate is more appropriate. Explain that please.



ETA: What does abortion solve? Please indulge us all. I am interested.

Joy - posted on 03/06/2012

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I am not a Conservative Mom but this little box in the right hand corner of my screen brought me here. Tough topic. I think Abortion should be left intact. What a person chooses to do with their body is their business. I've seen far too many unwanted babies being brought into this world and that, is a far greater problem then abortion.



I did browse over the comments, it is obvious my opinion is not a popular one but it is, what it is. I don't think members of differing opinions should be brow beaten because they won't conform to a certain line of thinking. That, is nothing short of bullying and something I'm not interested in. I've worked in the counselling field for 20+ years. I see the impact unwanted children have on these families and on society. Many just end up in the system. Stating that you have a friend who would give a baby a home, therefore, abortion is wrong. Doesn't solve anything. If you are so inclined to want to help this family, be a surrogate. Then we know the baby is not unwanted and no one's rights have been violated because you volunteered. There is always an answer. One that is more appropriate then just pulling up or putting on your big girl panties.

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I remember when i was in 6th grade Clinton was running for president (the first time around) and my social studies teacher asked us to write an essay on who we thought should be president. at 12yrs old i basically picked Clinton because that's who my parents were voting for. The only part of that essay I remember is this sentence, "Clinton thinks abortions should be legal and so do I". However at 12 I didn't know exactly how to explain my answer (good thing we didn't have to put our names on the paper). A friend of the family had recently had to have an abortion for emergency medical reasons and that is the only reason why I could ever justify an abortion.

I got pregnant when I was 18 and a teacher asked me one day if I was Catholic, and while I didn't get it right away, after thinking about it I realized he was really asking why I didn't have an abortion, as if my religion was the only deciding factor. For me there was no choice. My baby was alive for me the second I found out I was pregnant. Almost 13yrs later I never once second guessed my decision to not only carry that baby but to keep him as well.

Far too many women are using abortion as a form of birth control and that is just wrong. And how can anyone justify a partial birth abortion. Those babies are born ALIVE that is most definitely MURDER!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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I really like the latter idea. LOL If only I could get all the freaks in one place.... sigh....



ETA: I should clarify what I mean by freaks. I mean those that abuse children. I most definitely did not mean those that agree with abortion. I mean, I am strong headed and strongly opinionated about the sensitive subject but I don't think anyone is a freak for their belief. ;)



I just realized how that could be taken out of context. It is not what I meant. ;)

Krista - posted on 03/05/2012

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Oh, I hear you. I can't even think about children who are being abused, or worst of all, caught up in the sex trade. It makes me either want to curl up in the corner with some Paxil and a blanket, or grab a big f**king blowtorch in one hand, an AK-47 in the other, and go vigilante.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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For me Krista, I am all about the children. I would never ever want a child to suffer. Where I have not really researched much in regard to severe illnesses, I was just not educated. You encouraged me to take a look. I did not know about Tay Sachs or the other few you mentioned. I would never want a child to suffer the entire time they were with us just to die shortly after. That is so selfish and inhumane. I appreciate your guidance in veering me to check it out. Although heart wrenching. It made me see, there are other serious reasons other than a pregnant mother facing death. Other illnesses where they can live substantial, happy lives, no, they deserve a fighting chance.



I am not about the adults involved for any other reason than severe reasons on the mother or child. It is their responsibility to make do with what they created. If it is to pass the child, once born to a loving family, that is wonderful. If they choose to work their asses off, like I did, that is wonderful. To take their life for their own selfish reason, NO, I cannot accept that.



Children mean so much to me. I honestly wish I could "save" them all. I know I can't though. I am, however, looking at ways I can start helping some. I just need to figure out which way I want to help. I have contributed my time to food banks and at schools. I didn't get enough out of these resources though. I found food banks way to depressing. Too many mothers dragging their sweet little darlings with them, when it was apparent they were strung out on something. Some had no excuse to even be there. I couldn't witness that. It just broke my heart to badly. I couldn't sleep at night. I have to find something where I will actually have a significant voice and be able to actually help rather than just serve...



Thank you for your kind words. It really means something great to me. Your words got me to think about my feelings, of which I form my opinion from. I enjoy seeing other's views and learning more than what I may already know. It is one of the biggest reasons I am on COM. ;)

**Jackie** - posted on 03/05/2012

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Well thank you for that :)Keep doing what you're doing. You DO make a difference.

Krista - posted on 03/05/2012

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You know what, though, I have to compliment you guys as well. Those points that I made? I have made the exact same points in the exact same way to other very pro-life individuals, and they fell on deaf ears. They didn't WANT to hear anything that might cause them to re-think their viewpoints, and dismissed my examples as though they were figments of my imagination. It was extremely frustrating. So I really appreciate that, even in an emotional topic like this, you guys were willing to really listen.

**Jackie** - posted on 03/05/2012

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Mother Bacher...if only you could see me rolling my eyes. You just make this too easy :)



Krista, you're hilarious too! How about I compliment you "Jersey style". Krista,you debate like a friggen pro! haha

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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You win! I don't need to. I have shared my opinion and explained it thoroughly. I have defended my position, which BTW is what you do in a "real" debate. You just decide to by-pass the bulk of the info and comment on those you can take out of context.



i'm not gonna play your little game any further. You can play by yourself... Enjoy....

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

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What a big load of BS. That goes for both comments.



"My only issue with you, Mother Bacher, is that at first you were just reiterating that you disagreed and you were for abortion"

--So what exactly is your issue?? that I just didn't agree with you?? Well, at least you admit it. Just like everyone in this thread I voiced my opinion. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.



"I haven't seen much to your opinion but that it is your opinion. I have explained mine thoroughly. Your's is fairly absent from holding much value"

-- NOT constructive at all but I shouldn't be surprised. All this does is insult and inflame. It is what the poster counts on and thrives on.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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Ah, but it is being used as a means of birth control. I think that is well known.... It is only a basic human right in some Countries. Unfortunately Canada is one where it is legal for any reason at any time. sigh...



No, I do not feel I am the deciding authority, wish I was though. I simply am defending a defenseless human being. One that did not ask to be created. One that deserves a fighting chance. One that does not deserve to be discarded due to a childish, immature act. Sex is a very serious and mature responsibility. You need to take ownership of all your mistakes and downfalls, regardless of what trouble's that brings forth. I don't allow my children to fault other's for their doing, I surely am not going to accept it from anyone else either.... There is no such thing as accidents when it comes to sex, accidents with contraception, yes. However, that is a possibility and should be understood from the get go. If you're going to partake you'd better be educated and prepared on what can happen. You should be willing to accept any negative outcome from that choice. If you can't then you should not be having sex.

Krista - posted on 03/05/2012

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She has respect and class



/inadvertently spits coffee at computer screen.

**Jackie** - posted on 03/05/2012

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MeMe isn't in this thread to hold anyone's hand or pat them on the knee. Many threads are dedicated to advice, support, even jokes and sharing funny stories...not this one. W e all have our opinion. My only issue with you, Mother Bacher, is that at first you were just reiterating that you disagreed and you were for abortion...and now you have gone onto copying and pasting parts of people's comments and dismissing them in one way or another.



Also, no one here is judging at all in my eyes. We are all debating. Krista, by far, gets an A+ because she altered MeMe and my eyes and made us look at a bigger picture. She has respect and class. I have been on threads where MeMe has changed minds, as have I.



I agree that there is a fine line between judging and stating an opinion in, what I think we can all agree, is a very sensitive subject. I just don't think I understand what you are trying to accomplish, Mother Barcher.



You are absolutely allowed to comment after every single person and restate your opinion. I am in no authority to tell you otherwise, I just don't see the point. Why not try and change our minds? If you're not interested in that then that's fine, I just am still missing your point.

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

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Oh MEME, such kind words. my opinion has always been very straight forward. You don't need an entire summary so you can scrutinize it, to see if it is a viable reason. THAT is why everyone keeps saying...."they have a right to their opinion??" Because you say things like this "I haven't seen much to your opinion but that it is your opinion. I have explained mine thoroughly. Your's is fairly absent from holding much value since there isn't much defined in why you think that way..." Such comments makes it sound like you are the deciding authority and if you don't see any value to it....the opinion is a moot point.



"I'm pro-choice on most things. So long as abortion isn't being used as a means of birth control....I think it is up to the mother carrying the child." -- this has been my opinion all along. Seems pretty valid to me, considering it is a basic human right.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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Why does everyone keep telling others they have a right to their opinion?? I know I do and I know other's do. No need to pronounce it, now is there?



I am giving my opinion and you your's. I don't need you to let me know it is OK. Thanks anyhow.. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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Well said Krista! Once again I agree! As I have said before I am anti-abortion for one main reason. I cannot bring myself to say it is OK unless in rare cases, it just isn't OK for no real good reason, as illness.



I am and will always be pro-life. Pro-life to me is for those already created, including a fetus. Although, those that have already been giving life which includes hopes, dreams, love, aspirations and would be terribly affected - I am speaking of the children of a mother that could die if she continued her pregnancy - then I am pro-life for those children and mother. The fetus is very important but not enough for the innocent children to suffer. Other than true illness, deathly illness. No, I cannot bring myself to understand.



I have been in severe circumstances, my opinion stems from my experiences and my feelings while there....

Mommy2G1B - posted on 03/05/2012

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memi-moi you do not know my situation so you have no place to judge. Circle of moms in general is for support not judgement is what i was saying. You have a right to your opionion and i mine. Mine is Pro choice and that is that.

Krista - posted on 03/05/2012

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Geez, I was wondering why my ears were burning!



And usually, I just exhaust people into agreeing with me, but in this case, you ladies had obviously put some thought and consideration into your opinions, so I figured I should put the same into my arguments.



Unfortunately, in much of today's media and political dialogue, there is no room for nuance, or for shades of gray. You can't fit "I'm against abortion except for in cases where the mother and/or baby are doomed" on a bumper sticker.



So what happens is that cases like that tend to not be talked about.



Are they the majority of abortion cases? No, of course not.



But they ARE out there. And if abortion is made illegal, if more abortion doctors are assassinated, if more clinics close, then the odds increase of those women basically being fucked by the fickle finger of fate.



A term that we liberals tend to use a lot is "safe, legal and rare". And that is my opinion on things. But unfortunately, it seems as though a lot of conservatives leap upon the "legal", instead of helping us work on the "rare".



If we could just stop yelling at each other, and work together to teach people to respect their bodies and protect themselves, whether it's before marriage or during it, you'd see a LOT fewer abortions taking place.



Will abortion ever go away entirely? I'm afraid not. There are always going to be contraception failures, or reckless people who think they don't need it. There will always be rape, sad to say. There will always be drug addicts who wouldn't even know which end of a condom to use, because they're so messed up.



All that we can do is to try to make it rare. And driving it underground and making it illegal won't accomplish that.



What will accomplish it is teaching our daughters and sons that, despite what Rush Limbaugh says, taking the birth control pill does NOT make one a slut. What will accomplish it is teaching them that their bodies are a gift, to not be given casually to anybody who asks. And what will accomplish it is emphasizing to our sons that unless they want to be responsible for 18 years of child support, that they had better use a condom each and every time, and that only assholes try to pressure a girl to have unprotected sex.



Prevention, prevention, prevention. If I have a daughter, I will bring her to get an IUD implanted the second she shows signs of being sexually active. And I will do my best to raise her with enough self-esteem to say no and walk away from any boy who doesn't respect and love her enough to protect her. And I DO have a son, and I will do my best to raise him to be a decent man who respects women and who respects himself too much to be careless.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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Cassandra, that's why there is contraceptives. So, you don't end up pregnant. If you still do, then perhaps you should understand the implications before you take your pants off.... This is a large reason why they teach sex ed. in school.



The OP was quite explanatory of what this thread was about. She also demonstrated through her words that she is against abortion herself.



Abortion..What do you think?



I do not read anything about support for those that have had abortions. However, there are probably other threads that are, for just that. )



i think if abortion wasn't an option everyone knew that they had, people would be more careful when having sex or obstain from it all together. Directly from the OP and I concur!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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Ma B.



No it is not a two way street; I listened to Krista's opinion and even though I originally did not agree. After listening to what she had to say, I realized, by golly she is RIGHT! Therefore, after taking some thought and consideration from her idea - I realized that I needed to tweak my opinion slightly. However, this is only ever going to happen when you have an opposing opinion that can be accurately, kindly, thoughtfully and respectfully articulated. As Krista was able to do and often does. ;)



I haven't seen much to your opinion but that it is your opinion. I have explained mine thoroughly. Your's is fairly absent from holding much value since there isn't much defined in why you think that way.... Oh well, it doesn't matter. I feel the way I do for many reasons as I am assuming goes for you too.

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

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"Simply because it is obvious you have a very hard time with even trying to semi understand other's point of views and are never willing to take the high road OR see another's opinion as justified, even if you don't agree. No biggie. I am not asking for you to change your mind, just have a bit of compassion for those that have a differing opinion"

--this is a two way street.



LOL@ MeMe....touche.....commando, is a definite alternative!!

Mommy2G1B - posted on 03/05/2012

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My body is mine. You do not get to tell me that i have to carry a baby for 9 months in my body and have it live off of me and take from me if i do not choice it too. I have i right to my body my choose. I have had a abortion it was hard and it was the right thing to do for me and my family. No one needs to explain to the word why they chose not to continue a pregnancy. I being first hand a product of an unwanted pregnancy and ending up in DFC along with my other 10 siblings think that my mom should have aborted us or not got pregnant with us because all she did was cause us to be beat, sexually, mental, and physically abused. No one on here has a right to judge you do not know someone elses reality. Stop judging this is a place for support not for people to judge one another.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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I am willing to agree to disagree with you MA B. Simply because it is obvious you have a very hard time with even trying to semi understand other's point of views and are never willing to take the high road OR see another's opinion as justified, even if you don't agree. No biggie. I am not asking for you to change your mind, just have a bit of compassion for those that have a differing opinion. it is important to look at both sides, even if you have a strong opinion because you just never know. You may surprise yourself and actually grow internally.



I agree Jackie. I had a very strong opinion on abortion (and still do) but Krista definitely opened my eyes wider and was able to show how there may be certain, rare but, certain circumstances that need to fit into my equation as well.... I have given her views a damn good thought and I agree with her completely. There are times where if the baby is determined to be deathly ill, yes, the option of abortion should be present.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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Some of us don't wear panties! LOL



A bit of humour is always good for the soul... ;)

**Jackie** - posted on 03/05/2012

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No, I'd rather not tell someone what to do with their panties. I'm good.



You are still missing the point. aye.

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

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"BTW, I said "put your big girl pants on" not "pull up your big girl panties". This is just a sterling example of how well you comprehend and interpret other mother's posts. "

-- All semantics. The quote is actually "pull up your big girl panties" I thought you got it wrong.



"Go ahead, tell me again that babies being born are unwanted."

-- I know all too well about being a parent that would give up everything to be a mother. I certainly wouldn't expect having the say over someone else's body to acquire it. How is that right? So I get the right to have a baby but am taking someone else's HUMAN rights away from them. Not gonna happen.



There are lots of children in the world who would give up EVERYTHING they had just to have a loving family as well.....no one needs to force anyone to have babies when we already an endless list of children needing homes.

**Jackie** - posted on 03/05/2012

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Mother Bacher, really? I have read quite a few of your posts on here as well as other threads and you just don't seem to contribute anything.



BTW, I said "put your big girl pants on" not "pull up your big girl panties". This is just a sterling example of how well you comprehend and interpret other mother's posts. You pick and choose what you want to comment on instead of trying to see where the other person has come from.



I have actually changed my mind on a few topics that I had felt strongly on before. Even on this thread, Krista had opened my eyes to a few things that I just didn't grasp before.



I suggest you think and THEN type.



My friends had to take out a second mortgage on their home, sell one of their cars, and save every penny to be able to afford procedures and medication to try and have a baby...all which were unsuccessful. She is very kind and caring. She once confided in me and wanted to know if I knew what she did wrong that would make God not want her to have a child; my heart broke for her.



Go ahead, tell me again that babies being born are unwanted.

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

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MeMe, whether you think my opinion sucks or not, doesn't matter. It is my opinion. What I think it selfish is thinking you have [the collective you] any say over someone else's body. Now, THAT is selfish. There are also ooldes of children worldwide that need loving parents because they weren't wanted in the first place. Adding children to that long list is also, selfish. If there are so many unwanted children in the world, why bring another into the world?? Because someone somewhere wants a 'baby'. Again, selfish. If it is about just wanting a child, you wouldn't NEED a baby.



IF a person takes birth control on a regular basis, it is obvious, they do not want children. At least, not at that time. Birth control doesn't always work. I got pregnant while on birth control. As did my older sister. I know lots of people who have. So, judging by that, IF it did still happen, abortion is a viable option. It doesn't matter what brought them to that decision....it is their decision, and theirs alone.



Jackie, I think you need to pull your big girls panties up if such conversation upset you so. Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean it isn't educated. I didn't insult anyone, I reversed MeMe's own post and commenting on how perfect her name is. I think it is quite fitting. Want to know what IS funny. Is, when someone you know casts a sort of aspersion in my direction you find it over the top hilarious. You click every like button you can find. You even join in. BUT, when I say something in return which is almost identical, *I* am not adding anything to the debate, I'm personal attacking members and everything I say is uneducated. *snickering* Too damn funny. All you are missing is your school yard.



So, I take back the...pull up your big girl panties comment because it is obvious *someone* hasn't reached that stage yet.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/05/2012

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LMAO - No, MeMe I got from Drew Carey show! How's that for size?? You never know what MeMe means now do ya? I surely know what Mother means. However, come to think of it, I don't even call my mother MOTHER, so it will be Ma B. for you now on in... ;)



In addition, I don't need to clarify if and when you have permission for your opinion. I just assumed everyone had that right... ;) So, no need to be on the receiving end of being told for myself either.



Your opinion SUCKS by the way! ;) Too many innocent babies being killed for no good reason. Too many people "wishing" they could have a baby and never getting one. Your opinion helps them to not have as much of a chance as they should. It enables them to be unhappy. That is selfish! I am thinking of everyone, you know those that didn't do anything to get themselves in the sad predicament they are in. Not the ones that just need an escape goat to lay responsibility on something else. Maybe you would understand if you were the one that yearned for a baby and never ever got one! But knew there were people out there disposing of them left, right and center because of their own selfishness.... Cruel and distasteful, in the least.



I can do my best at understanding those that are told by multiple specialists that their baby is going to be severely ill, an illness that is going to leave the child in a very sad situation. i can understand a mother that may die if she continues the pregnancy, especially if she already has children. I am pro-life, therefore I am concerned for those that are already here. I would never want children to lose their mother due to her pregnancy. That is not a win situation for those that "need" their mother. A very sick baby, one that would die anyway, I would give serious thought to. I more than likely would not abort regardless but I can understand and sympathize with those that would. Anything over and above that NO. It is WRONG, unethical and immoral! PERIOD.

**Jackie** - posted on 03/05/2012

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Mother Bacher, I'm not sure what you are contributing to this debate. You seem, to me anyway, to just be personally attacking people and making sure you get the last word.



Here's some advice...you know...mother to mother. If you're going to HAVE TO HAVE the last word....make sure it's educated.



Furthermore, the baby would not be unwanted. I will venture to say that NO BABY is ever born unwanted. SOMEONE, my dear friend who I was speaking about, would love and cherish that baby.



Then again, when judgement day comes, I won't have to make excuses for my harsh reasoning.

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