Abortion..What do you think?

Melissa - posted on 01/30/2012

Yes, all I'm saying is adoption. I can say firsthand that I was faced with the decision of "bailing out" or keeping my baby (see a post earlier) and I chose to keep her. She is perfectly healthy. I realize not all people are this fortunate; to have a perfectly healthy baby. And I realize that there are some instances where a mother could die, the mother was brutally raped, etc. I'm talking about situations where people say, "Oops. Had a one night stand. Now I'm pregnant. Guess I can always abort!" I think that's completely careless, and THAT is where I say they need to own up to their actions, carry the baby, and put it up for adoption.

**Jackie** - posted on 01/30/2012

I agree Marie. No one can judge us except for God. I just hope that the women who aborted an innocent child have a reaaaally good reason for their actions. I hope it is not just because they were"Scared". I say, put on your big girl pants and carry the baby and give him/her up for adoption and continue your woe is me attitude!

Marie-Christina - posted on 01/30/2012

This is great coming from moms who love there children and would do anything for them. Not all children are so lucky, Caylee Anthony was just one child that made the news. Ask any child welfare advocate, it's terrifiying. My sister had a nervous breakdown after 6 months, she could not believe what she was seeing and hearing. I may not believe in abortion for myself but I won't stand in the way of someone who really does not want their child. It's not for me to judge, only Him.

Pam - posted on 01/30/2012

well said Susin I agree 100%!! WELL SAID!!! It's actually called "person living with a disability" as we need to see them and acknowledge them as persons before their disability. Miss meme talks about being the classy one, yet she calls them retards, tasteful. Lots of people in the world have different reasons for abortions, and its their right to their privacy on the issue, and not to be ridiculed or called names over it. As I mentioned before Pro-choice has many faces and reasons. To force your opinions on people who are going through with their own choice is toying with their feelings towards their personal rights and imposing yourself on them. Its hypocritical to say your respect other peoples decisions when you would rather slander them for it, bait in is right, this was not a topic up for debate, it's a bait, a bait to try and protest and impose self righteous beliefs. When we believe, we forfeit all other possibilities and I really think trying to insert an opposing logistic here is like beating a dead horse.

Susin - posted on 01/30/2012

No one is using 'retard' anymore...I believe we are saying 'mentally challenged'.



Sounds like we need more people who actually care about the baby once it's born and not just that it is born with no care given to the 'retard' who's raising it. BTW, that 'retard' was once a baby too.....

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/30/2012

They wouldn't be pregnant if they used BC and if they were worried about the 1% of still getting pregnant they should keep their legs closed! No one is trying to play god, just simply taking a stance on the unborn childs life, who gives a crap about the mother if she is a retard and has no sense!!

Susin - posted on 01/30/2012

Guess you really didn't have a question....kind of like this being a 'debate'. More like 'to bait'...ah well.



I will always fight for your right to continue your pregnancy regardless of how it came about. It's your choice and your right to your body. I saw both of my pregnancies to the end and now have three teenagers, (I have twins) one of them being female. I will fight for her rights too.



As to the 'innocence' of the fetus, probably so although I suspect science will figure out eventually that some folks are just born bad. (Really, if you're going to have the death penalty, you should at least disect the brain when they're dead...see if we can figure out where it all went wrong.) I say this because the argument of 'that fetus could cure cancer' is a 50/50 deal...that same fetus could take part in gang raping your daughter. NO ONE knows. Which is why it shouldn't even be part of the 'debate'.



Because I am a pro-choice woman, I firmly believe in your right to be pro-life. The realistic world-weary side of me just wishes you folks would put your money where your mouth is and start taking these kids in. There are thousands in the foster care system born of women who did just what you wanted even when they weren't ready. Why not take these 'innocent gifts' and give them a better life? Seems a bit hypocritical to sit on your couch and order women to give birth to babies they didn't ask for (in cases of rape or incest), can't take care of, or are too mentally challenged to be a parent without stepping up and taking responsibility for what YOU forced them to do. So it seems, you want to play God too....

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/30/2012

You are soooo right Melissa!! I couldn't have said that better!!

Melissa - posted on 01/29/2012

I have a question---do babies form their nerve endings and all feelings of pain, touch, hot, cold, etc. the moment they exit their mother's bodies? The answer is no. Some people think it's perfectly legit to kill someone. Some people think it's completely ok to have sex with a child. Some people think it's perfectly ok to do drugs every day and endanger others when they drive stoned. Some people think it's perfectly ok to have an abortion. Simply put, it's not ok. If it's not a baby, you're not pregnant. Why are murderers convicted of double homicide when they kill a pregnant woman? I thought it wasn't a life??? Don't get me started.

мιѕтι - posted on 01/29/2012

We all have rights to do what we want with our own bodies. I am not living a life of someone else, only my own. I will never judge anyone for their beliefs or their choices. Being against abortion is solely my choice for my life! Instead of pushing your beliefs onto another person, why not show the many resources that could help them and encourage them.

мιѕтι - posted on 01/29/2012

You are right about that not everyone will get help right away or even at all. They have planned parenthood places around the United states usually one or more in every town You can get it from them or from your local pharmacy. walmart, riteaid, walgreens.



Planned parent hood is great for teens who are scared or worried about what their parent's may say or do when they find about being sexually active. I would rather have my child on b/c and buying condoms for them rather then them going without. As sexually active teens you are saying your more responsible so prove it by doing the responsible thing and staying protected.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/29/2012

You're right about the morning after pill but one must remember that not all woman that are raped seek help immediately after.... ;)

мιѕтι - posted on 01/29/2012

Why choose abortion at all? They now have the morning after pill in case you got caught up in the heat of the moment and no protection.. When someone is raped, they offer the morning after pill at the hospital while they do rape kit. Now days there is no need to have abortions.. When i hear abortion, it's basically saying you wanted a baby but during pregnancy you got scared or decided you didn't want to be a parent so you ran from it by killing the "problem". Why not carry full term and choose adoption? A family out there who can't have children would want your baby to love and raise as their own. I am pro-choice since it's "your" life not mine, but I think others should educate themselves and look at all the possibilities they have out there.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/29/2012

LOL - no it is a way to punctuate that they are to stand out... I am actually smiling as I type back to YOU! ;) I think you are very arrogant and irrate. Just giving YOU a cup of your own tea there Miss Dunn! ;)

Pam - posted on 01/29/2012

aaaand SCENE! May the force be with you miss mememe

Pam - posted on 01/29/2012

So is the capped words you yelling and spitting over your coffee MISS MEME?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/29/2012

You talk about class??? When you started your rant, it wasn't very classy, from that I am offended and am strictly forcing it back upon YOU and only YOU...

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/29/2012

If you have had an abortion and feel bad about it later, then perhaps it should NOT be a choice. I can not feel bad for you, I am sorry you went through it but this is one of the reasons I am AGAINST it!



And it is Mrs. Meme, thanks... ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/29/2012

I feel the same for a teen! You also learn in school to use BC, if you didn't then there is something wrong with that school! My daughter of 13 in grade 7 has been learning about BC since grade 4!!! If she chooses to have sex and not use BC, then she is setting herself up for more than a baby, she just may get far worse, like an STD!! And, she would NOT be having an abortion. You made your bed so you must lye in it! USE A CONDOM!! The need to progress? In what? I feel I am right or I wouldn't be debating it... That is what a debate is, one side feels strong about their views and the other feels strong about their views... I just happen to be on the opppsoing side of "you"... USE A CONDOM, they sell them cheap and you can even get them free at a TEEN health clinic.... ;)

Pam - posted on 01/29/2012

May I add....miss meme, that this is a debate that has long been debated with either side not being able to see each others point. This is nothing new. I'll be honest, I do feel a certain cringe, when I think "maybe" there's something to this theory Starla is presenting (she has a way with words you just cant deny) but then what? Are you trying to make me feel bad by dragging me through the mud because I once upon a time had abortion? Would you feel heroic and centered if your argument somehow made someone grovel and fall to the ground an emotional wreck? There's a certain class one should have when speaking to others about the very personal choices they have made in this regard, and some would view it as non of your business. Here we are Miss MeMe, the dust is in the air and we're drawing guns, but at what cost? I'm sorry if you took so much time to try and dis-mantel every truth I had spoken, I'm sorry because it leaves no push. There is plenty of research out there that tells a different story, and since I have emotionally invested my well being on this, I shall not be persuaded by your strict and harsh tone that I really cannot hear through typing lol. Thus leading me to the only solution here Miss Meme, we consequently must agree to DISAGREE. As a very em-beveled Miss meme said once "Good Day"

Pam - posted on 01/29/2012

wow.... meme.... now go tell this to a teen who just had an abortion and then feel good about yourself okay? Judgmental people these days, you'd probably successfully have her commit suicide and still feel like you have something to say, I dont think your arguing with me out of the need to progress, I think your just looking to be victoriously right. The fact of the matter at hand is your speaking of theory's and not scientific fact. As we all learned in science class, a theory can be proved as much as it can be falsified. What is your real deal here?

мιѕтι - posted on 01/28/2012

Let me rephrase my answer since I didn't read the posts ahead of me.. My feelings on abortion are... If your going to die and there is no denying that, then you do what has to be done. Now for rape, I know it's possible to carry and choose parents that will love that child no matter what. These are only my beliefs and I don't expect everyone to agree with me :) I believe everyone should have a chance.

мιѕтι - posted on 01/28/2012

I'm against abortion and I am all for adoption!

Kelly - posted on 01/28/2012

If you're not going to use BC then man up and take care of that baby yourself. I'm 34wks pregnant, when I got preg it wasn't exactly the best time. But I love my son and I wouldn't change any of it for the world.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

You're absolutely right Kelly! I agree with you 100%, there are very specific times it is a "just" decision. If you may die while carrying the child, when you have other children at home or you have been traumatically raped... However, I believe those are the only true reasons that are justifiable for taking a life. If you use it as BC then you have an issue. There are hundreds of BC out there, that is your problem if you didn't use any! Carry the baby and put it up for adoption, there are sooo many people out there "dying" to have a baby and cannot biologically, why not give them a "choice"! ;) If you get preganant a "did" use a BC then there is a reason for it and well, don't screw then!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

BTW - eggs we eat are not developing chicks... They are the yolk where a chick "would" develop. I have never opend an egg and seen even a little resemblence of a chick.. That was a very poor analogy. The eggs we eat are NOT fertilized, just like "we" women shed ours if they are not fertilized. A Hen lays her eggs even "without" fertilization and then they are taken for processing to put in our stores... A Rooster needs to be present to fertilize the egg! Not sure where you got your information from but it is way out in left field!



A woman does not get pregnant without fertilization, meaning there is life present when she does!



It's a no brainer that if a woman is pregnant there is a formation of life within her...

Kelly - posted on 01/28/2012

Abortion as birth control is wrong. There are times when just maybe, it's the right choice though. How do you choose between the children who are already here and alive if your next pregnancy has a high chance of leaving you unable to care for them. I'm not syaing it would be an easy decision. But it's not always the wrong decision.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

OK Kalloosit - here is proof. Unless you are a scientist it is a hard one to deny!! You made a statement earlier that scientist don't call it a "life" unless it has a hearbeat, well read below - it has a damn heartbeat AND can feel pain!



By 8 weeks? Show me!



By this age the neuro-anatomic structures are present. What is needed is (1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and send a message to (2) the thalamus, a part of the base of the brain, and (3) motor nerves that send a message to that area. These are present at 8 weeks. The pain impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a signal down the motor nerves to pull away from the hurt.



Give an example.



Try sticking an infant with a pin and you know what happens. She opens her mouth to cry and also pulls away.



Try sticking an 8 week old human fetus in the palm of his hand. He opens his mouth and pulls his hand away.



A more technical description would add that changes in heart rate and fetal movement also suggest that intrauterine manipulations are painful to the fetus. Volman & Pearson, "What the Fetus Feels," British Med. Journal, Jan. 26, 1980, pp. 233-234.



O.K., that is activity that can be observed, but is there other evidence of pain? After all, the fetal baby can’t tell us he hurts.



Pain can be detected when nociceptors (pain receptors) discharge electrical impulses to the spinal cord and brain. These fire impulses outward, telling the muscles and body to react. These can be measured. Mountcastle, Medical Physiology, St. Louis: C.V. Mosby, pp. 391-427 "Lip tactile response may be evoked by the end of the 7th week. At 11 weeks, the face and all parts of the upper and lower extremities are sensitive to touch. By 13 1/2 to 14 weeks, the entire body surface, except for the back and the top of the head, are sensitive to pain." S. Reinis & J. Goldman, The Development of the Brain C. Thomas Pub., 1980



Give me more proof.



In 1984 President Reagan said: "When the lives of the unborn are snuffed out, they often feel pain, pain that is long and agonizing." President Ronald Reagan to National Religious Broadcasters, New York Times, Jan. 31, 1984



This provoked a public reaction from pro-abortion circles and a response from an auspicious group of professors, including pain specialists and two past presidents of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology.



They strongly backed Mr. Reagan and produced substantial documentation. Excerpts of their letter (2/13/84) to him included:



"Real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changes in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering work of the late Sir William Lily — the father of fetology."



We state categorically that no finding of modern fetology invalidates the remarkable conclusion drawn after a lifetime of research by the late Professor Arnold Gesell of Yale University. In The Embryology of Behavior: The Beginnings of the Human Mind (1945, Harper Bros.), Dr. Gesell wrote, "and so by the close of the first trimester the fetus is a sentient, moving being. We need not speculate as to the nature of his psychic attributes, but we may assert that the organization of his psychosomatic self is well under way."



Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground. Willke, J & B, Abortion: Questions & Answers, Hayes, 1991, Chpt. 10



What of The Silent Scream?



A Realtime ultrasound video tape and movie of a 12- week suction abortion is commercially available as, The Silent Scream, narrated by Dr. B. Nathanson, a former abortionist. It dramatically, but factually, shows the pre-born baby dodging the suction instrument time after time, while its heartbeat doubles in rate. When finally caught, its body being dismembered, the baby’s mouth clearly opens wide — hence, the title (available from Heritage House '76 at http:www.heritagehouse76.com). Proabortionists have attempted to discredit this film. A well documented paper refuting their charges is available from National Right to Life, 419 7th St. NW, Washington, DC 20004, $2.00 p.p. A short, 10-minute video showing the testimony of the doctor who did the abortion in Silent Scream definitely debunks any criticism of Silent Scream’s accuracy. The Answer, Bernadel, Inc., P.O. Box 1897, Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY, 10011.



Pain? What of just comfort?



"One of the most uncomfortable ledges that the unborn can encounter is his mother’s backbone. If he happens to be lying so that his own backbone is across hers [when the mother lies on her back], the unborn will wiggle around until he can get away from this highly disagreeable position." M. Liley & B. Day, Modern Motherhood, Random House, 1969, p. 42



But isn’t pain mostly psychological?



There is also organic, or physiological pain which elicits a neurological response to pain. P. Lubeskind, "Psychology & Physiology of Pain," Amer. Review Psychology, vol. 28, 1977, p. 42



But early on there is no cerebral cortex for thinking, therefore no pain?



The cortex isn’t needed to feel pain. The thalamus is needed and (see above) is functioning at 8 weeks. Even complete removal of the cortex does not eliminate the sensation of pain. "Indeed there seems to be little evidence that pain information reaches the sensory cortex." Patton et al., Intro. to Basic Neurology, W. B. Saunders Co. 1976, p. 178



How about during an abortion?



This really hit the fan during the 1996 debate in the U.S. Congress over a law to ban partial birth abortions. Pro-abortionists had claimed that the anaesthetic had already killed the fetal baby. Top officials of the U.S.



Society for Obstetric Anaesthesia & Perinatology vigorously denied this explaining that usual anaesthesia did not harm the baby. D. Gianelli, Anaesthesiologists Question Claims in Abortion Debate, Am. Med. News, Jan. 1, ’96



This brought the issue of fetal pain into the news, and testimony was given to the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the U.S. House of Representatives.



"The fetus within this time frame of gestation, 20 weeks and beyond, is fully capable of experiencing pain. Without doubt a partial birth abortion is a dreadfully painful experience for any infant. R. White, Dir. Neurosurgery & Brain Research, Case Western Univ.



Also, "Far from being less able to feel pain, such premature newborns may be more sensitive to pain"...that babies under 30 weeks have a "newly established pain system that is raw and unmodified at this tender age." P. Ranalli, Neuro. Dept., Univ. of Toronto



Give me more research data.



Data in the British Medical Journal, Lancet, gave solid confirmation of such pain. It is known that the fetal umbilical cord has no pain receptors such as the rest of the fetal body. Accordingly, they tested fetal hormone stress response comparing puncturing of the abdomen and of the cord.



They observed "the fetus reacts to intrahepatic (liver) needling with vigorous body and breathing movements, but not to cord needling. The levels of these hormones did not vary with fetal age." M. Fisk, et al., Fetal Plasma Cortisol and B-endorphin Response to Intrauterine Needling, Lancet, Vol. 344, July 9, 1994, Pg. 77



Another excellent British study commented on this:



"It cannot be comfortable for the fetus to have a scalp electrode implanted on his skin, to have blood taken from the scalp or to suffer the skull compression that may occur even with spontaneous delivery. It is hardly surprising that infants delivered by difficult forceps extraction act as if they have a severe headache." Valman & Pearson, "What the Fetus Feels," British Med. Jour., Jan. 26, 1980



This is so sad and people say they don't feel pain?? I say go do some research! I am ready to protest, I am ready to fight in Parliment for these innocent unborn souls... :(

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

Show me where I called you anything but rude, insensitive and so forth... Those words were not written by this hand sorry! My step-mother is a vegetarian and she does NOT eat eggs... I respect her for that but I still eat eggs in front of her and she respects me. Regardless of what you believe I believe it should not be in "just" anyones hands. I have no problem with your opinion as long as you are respectful when voicing it...

Starla - posted on 01/28/2012

Jackie there are no words for what your post means to me, just tears of gratitude that I could make a difference at all. Thank you for letting me know.

**Jackie** - posted on 01/28/2012

Starla, I was against abortion BEFORE I read your post. After reading it I am to the point where I would go and protest it now. I didn't know how abortions worked or what was involved in the process, I just knew in my heart that it was wrong. Wow, thank you for those facts. I hope whomever aborts innocent babies (that don't choose their parents) have a good answer when God asks them why they sent his precious miracle back to him crying.

Starla - posted on 01/28/2012

Kalloosit, we are on two sides of the fence and are certainly affected by our own experiences here but something you said stood out to me. You said we should focus on born children because they have sensations and feelings.



Abby Johnson witnessed a 13 week fetus turn and twist away from the probe that touched its side. It felt.



Gianna Jessen survived a saline abortion and at three years old her adoptive mother found her hysterical over the sound of a fire crackling. She researched and discovered that's the sound the saline makes to the fetus.



Fetuses feel and experience the abortion. Those examples are not scare tactics those are first hand experiences of this reality.



I just received an email from a girl who thanked me for sharing my story in a different post (my mom cancelled her appt to abort me.) this girl had an abortion and wrote exactly what I had written here, that she has suffered from pain and regret for the last 3 years. Girls being counseled need to be warned of this before making their choice!



Im sorry for what happened to you when you were young and I don't know how your abortion has affected you but I'm sorry if your hurting in talking about abortion now. I am so glad to hear you've been blessed with two other children and would also like to say: Sometimes you just need to hear you're a Beautiful Mom doing a great job and you're so loved!

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

I mean we could take the choice away and have both of them die when she tries to rid herself of the drama that may ensue when she is faced with her plight. This is where you guys can insert "Her choice to have sex, her consequences" what if it her virginity was taken away by a much older man?



What I am saying is what many have said in this situation. Pro-choice has many faces and reasons. Pro-choice people also have hearts and also care. I am a counselor and I cannot tell girls opinions I hold, or beliefs because what is right or wrong for me is not for another. I cannot righteously look them in the eye and tell them what to do.



I had an abortion, and I have had two successful pregnancies later in life, I love my kids with all my heart. I was that young girl faced with assholes who just plummet knives to your heart when your already torn and faced with a riot of know it all yahoo's trying to do good, but just making it worse. The pictures slapped in your face that were photo-shopped just to serve their own cause and argument aimed at victory. Say what you will, but say it to a million woman and young girls who have went through it with conviction. Say it with the knowledge that your hurting them too.

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

A lot of what you read is scare tactics, designed to freak you out and it has. Miss meme you called me pro-abortion, not once have I receded to that title, in fact I am pro choice, not pro-abortion. I believe in arguments based on the sole fact of progress and not just for victory. It seems to me your condemning anyone who disagrees. Woman for centuries in struggling situations would try and get their own abortions, no matter the danger involved. This is apart of a movement 4 choice over our own bodies. A choice mostly made by people struggling on their own behalf, i.e poverty or family discord. Abortion is there as a safe alternative to doing it in someones basement. It's there as a very big part of a picture of woman's justice and rights.



I bring up topics such as real living children being a more solid focus because they have sensations and feelings, and thoughts. As In the words of Joycelyn Elders, "We really need to get over this love affair with the fetus and start worrying about children."

Starla - posted on 01/28/2012

That's exactly the thing kalloosit, that teenager will forever have trauma imprinted on her heart and mind from getting it done. But she's not being told that when she walks into Planned Parenthood and they do everything they can to make sure she makes the choice that will make them money.



One day if she's lucky enough to still have kids (im sure you already know abortions put future pregnancies at risk) how is she going to be affected when she looks at the 10 weeks or so ultrasound of that tiny but formed child swimming around inside of her? Deeper imprints of the horrible reality on her mind and heart.



I care.

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

that must have took a lot of time miss meme lmao! You failed too see my point of view just as I fail to see yours... That said, a lot of the information out there is designed to make people get emotional over it and a lot of it is fabricated to say the least. To say its not a religiously driven controversy (when the argument is that the spirit has been implanted at conception) is too hide under the blankets, I mean really, not everyone thinks of it that way. Starla, I can appreciate what you see, but It wouldn't be in practice if there were not another side to this. I'm playing devils advocate here, its a debate and there needs to be another side to this if its even to be called a debate. Now, what if what your saying was not true, that the dr really did not quit because a fetus screamed. If you told that to a teenager that just had an abortion your permanently imprinting trauma to her mind and on her heart. Miss Meme you say its just an egg and we are carnivorous, tell that to a vegan. What you will get is you, just in another extremity.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

You were throwing stones and you were very abnoxious..



Quote: Kalloosit: Bravo for you, do you want and award or a chest to pin it on?

Very abnoxious, incosiderate and rude.



Quote: Kalloosit: lol wow..... do you sit around crying about this all day?

Again very abnoxious, inconsiderate and rude.



Quote: Kalloosit: Bible thumpetts~

What the heck is this?

Throwing stones, calling people names??



Quote: Kalloosit: Its a debate, its a question, and your just taking it as a chance to get on your high horse and be righteous. You know there are people out there that believe in science, and science says its not alive unless it has a heart beat etc...

Again, a baby has a heart beat at 22 days in utero. You are riding a pretty high horse but I haven't seen a night and shining armour...



Quote: Kalloosit: Some woman abort because they are crack heads who cant get it together and plenty of other "personal reasons"

Those people loose their babies to the system before they get to leave Hospital. If they don't have the baby in Hospital, they eventually lose the baby, most times the baby aborts itself... I also, careless about a crackhead and they don't deserve any rights at all!



Quote: Kalloosit: perhaps looking for a chance to stand on a podium to tell the world how much better you are than them...

No one said they were better than anyone, if you think anti-abortion is being better than someone else, then "you" are preaching on the wrong side and don't want to be a better person??



Quote: Kalloosit: I wasn't throwing stones, I was simply stating an opinion, one that obviously bothers you very much lol.

Sorry I have no issue with someones opinion only when it is condesending, arrogant, insensitive, rude, abnoxious, ridiculing, indecent, falsifying, inaccurate and indicting of others!



Your flippancy tells me you have some serious respect issues. No one is going to respect you if you are going to be disrespectful...

Starla - posted on 01/28/2012

Oh and Kalloosit, I also wanted to mention that those horrible things you described (which are horrific) dont happen by choice to those people but you are supporting a woman's choice in our own first world countries to choose death.



Is there something about the word choice that stops people from thinking past it to the reality of what making that choice actually entails? It sounds all good, you live in a modern country were you get to choose...to kill. And somehow this is ok with approximately half the population because it happens under a positive sounding word.

Starla - posted on 01/28/2012

Kalloosit,



Science says human life begins at conception.



A fetus will squirm away from the knife that's about to tear it apart.



An abortionist ended a life for the last time when the 12 week old fetus screamed during the procedure.



Women living in relentless regret have said and I quote "if only I had known it wasn't a clump of tissue."



You can continue to believe we're only talking about "attached tissue" but were not. Look for yourself at abortion images if you don't believe me.



If you do look or have looked and your heart feels nothing because of the fact that horrible things happen all over the world then there's really nothing i can say that will change your heart is there. You can laugh at my compassion but it won't stop me from continuing to stand up and say abortion is wrong!



Have I cried over aborted babies and the women irreversably harmed by getting them done? Yes I have. But don't think I just sit there and cry. I'm doing something about it.



And since you brought up examples of suffering in the world I'll share with you that unborn babies and their mothers aren't my only passion. The children in Africa you mentioned and places like it, I care about them too. My son at 2 1/2 years old SAW the tv screen filled with images of kids in desperate need. He pointed at the screen and said "need water, need water, mommy sad." So I started www.noahswell.com. Will that well that gets built relieve all the children in the world of their thirst? No. But it will relieve some. What would happen if we all did something for some?



Caring comes with seeing, especially when it comes to abortion. Open your eyes.

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

I wasn't throwing stones, I was simply stating an opinion, one that obviously bothers you very much lol. The thing you should realize is, there are a many pro-choice people out there, lobbyists and they think very much the way I do. Your yelling out of emotion right now, I get it. Still I have an opinion, a strong opinion as do you, but yes, I do sponcer a child in Indonesia. She is 12. All of my responses were much the same, calm and very real. If but just a few people on here dont agree with you, they dont agree, get over it.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

LOL oh OK! Like that response? At least now you have toned your replies down... You have a right to your opinion, just don't come on here shooting your mouth around and throwing stones at Christians or any group of people when it isn't ONLY Christians that are anti-abortion... ;)

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

I'm actually speaking my mind in a very calm fashion and not from anger but I cannot say the same for whatever that was. is it hard to have a debate? Is this not a question open for debate? I am certainly not a cruel person but I dont really care what you think, I dont know you but to those who do know me, see me as a liberal free spirited spiritual person who believes in choice, pro-choice ♥

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

BTW - I DO sponsor SEVERAL 3rd world Countries children!! Do YOU?? Those woman should be MADE to take BC and the men should have their dicks cut off! There are way too many suffering children but they don't have a choice of abortions, they CAN'T afford it, they DON'T have the medical science there! That was a thoughtless comment as well!!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 01/28/2012

Kolloosit - A Baby has a heart beat at 22 days inutero! Whatcha got to say about that?? You do have alot of anger and it is uncalled for! I am NOT religious I am spiritual, BIG differene... No one said it is negative to speak your mind but you are YELLING it in a tone that is VERY NEGATIVE!



A chick is MUCH different than a HUMAN! We are HUMANS we are at the TOP of the food chain we EAT meat!! We ARE CARNOVORES! LOL That is a very childish resposnse in the least, I must say... Like I said earlier, I GOT to see my son at 10 weeks inutero and he had a heart beat and he was moving around, he was doin gymnastics inside me! Your cruel, negative and childish. This is not about a Woman it is about a helpless, innocent BABY! It isn't our fault we have to carry them for 9 months, what if you only had to carry them for 3 weeks???



Again I am NOT Religous, so get of your high horse and go LEARN something!



Do you HAVE to wear a seat belt?? Do you HAVE to wait until a certain age to drink?? Do you HAVE to wait until a certain age to drive?? Do you HAVE to obey the rules of the road?? Do you HAVE to obey the rules the Government has set forth?? YES and you do NOT have a choice! It's a part of life, get over it... This should be a HAVE to choice as well, one that you have had to have been raped OR going to DIE from carrying the lil' innocent life. They don't get a choice to be born why should YOU get a choice to kill it "just" because???



No one was crapping on anyone until you came along!! Just voicing their opinion, however, I think you met your match with many of us! Not a good idea to start accusing a certain group of people when you have no idea! Good Day! ;)

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

oh and the reason I say things about the goings on of many issues in the world is this; your heart bleeds for the egg, when there is so many children in the world who could use a compassionate person like yourself to care. When you use your bleeding heart to condemn other peoples choices and decisions, then in my opinion, you dont really care. Your just adding harshness to an already tough decision these ppl are facing and perhaps looking for a chance to stand on a podium to tell the world how much better you are than them...

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

whats angry about having a different point of view? my point is this...The embryo is not alive yet, its tissue growing, and will be alive. Do you eat eggs or do you find it difficult because perhaps your killing the chick? If you dont like it, dont do it. Whats makes you so high and mighty that your stance becomes the only choice on how to think? My mind is free and everyone has choices man made or not. The debate here could easily turn into science vs Christianity if you think tissues have feelings. Yet if you believe in following gods path put forth, you could also easily ask, would god put a choice in front of someone if he did not think they should have one?



I dont think its negative to speak your mind. Do you?

Ania - posted on 01/28/2012

It is not that simple. Nothing is black or white. I believe women should have choice. I don't think I would do it myself, but if someone has to or want to they should have that option. It is between them and their concious

Leslie - posted on 01/28/2012

Wow Kalloosit, you've got a lot of anger and sarcasm. Find a thread that can use your negative talents. You do nothing but criticize the commentors on this thread and offer distractions about the other woes in the world. This isn't about the woes of the world, our focus is abortion. Stick to the topic.

Pam - posted on 01/28/2012

Bravo for you, do you want and award or a chest to pin it on? I'm a parent too, I've had two children. Lots of people do it, and some dont want to. Their decision, and I'm not about to judge them for it.

Leslie - posted on 01/28/2012

To those that are pro choice- you say only you have the right to make decisions about your body. I say that's true, but in killing an unborn child, you aren't making a decision about your body, but about the body of the human life within you.

I have been pro life all my life, but especially now that I'm a mother. What woman can look into the eyes of her child and think, "I really wish you weren't here. My life would have been so much easier." Sure, I could have travelled the world and had wonderful life experiences without my children, but my life HAS been amazing. I've given birth 3 times

to 3 incredible children. The challenges of motherhood made me into the strong, capable woman I am today. No amount of travel or people can do for me what my children have done.

I pity the people who deprive themselves of this experience. There is no greater joy.