Discipline: Do you believe in Spanking?

OhJessie - posted on 06/07/2011

Quote:"First. We should all know by now that children need to be told numerous…count that numerous times to do/not do something. Using ‘other methods’ makes perfect sense, because it should involve logical consequences for misbehavior, when natural consequences won’t do. Spanking is not a logical consequence for any form of misbehavior."

I'm going to stop you there, JL. You're thinking only in terms of specific undesirable behaviors. I'm not. And there is absolutely something for which spanking is a logical consequence, although that isn't the main point. I wrote this a little while ago - "Yes, you have to deal with the underlying cause. Sometimes malice is the underlying cause. Spanking is (IMO) reserved for acts of malice, and it is punitive. If malice is never dealt with it will remain and come out in the long run in other ways. Most of children's "misbehavior" is not malicious, though. It's knowing the difference that's important. In other words, it's not about *behavior* modification to see that our kids behave a certain way. It's about the one underlying attitude that doesn't necessarily relate to outward behavior; it can be exerted in a much sneakier fashion as one grows. Everything that they do with other causes, which is most of it, just got to use all the tools you can to deal with them.

And that's why people can spank when they're not angry, and why they *need* to. Sometimes it takes time to get down to the cause, can't do it upset.

And one has to be willing to apologize when wrong. Then they grow up willing to face their failings, feel sorry for them, and apologize - apologizing for something you're genuinely ashamed of is a great deterrent in adult life! That part of molding a person's character is something parents can do, and it's the purpose of spanking for malicious, defiant acts and attitudes. It's teaching self-control in things more important than just throwing a toy or even going towards the stove."

Colleen - posted on 06/07/2011

at the risk of getting yelled at by some angry moms I have to say I DO believe in spanking. growing up my brothers and I and 1 of my 3 sisters were spanked...my 2 youngest sisters were not spanked. 1 of them got pregnant twice by the same cheating looser. the other one has had a problem with drinking and drugs. she tried to kill herself and is now pregnant. I think the problem with them is they had no discipline and NO respect for my parents. I was spanked...NOT abused. I am now 30 (will 31 in 2 weeks), married and have a 4 year old daughter and I still worry about what my parents think about me. with my daughter I spank her on the butt. she knows the rules of the house. if she does something she is not supposed to do I first remind her of the rule. "Hailey you know your not allowed to jump on the couch like that." if she does it again I warn her "Hailey your still jumping on the couch. Do you need a spank?" to which she always answers "no" and if she does it again I say "Hailey I've told you to stop jumping on the couch. come here so I can spank you" she comes to me. I give ONE quick smack to the butt. and she stops jumping on the couch. It's NOT and everyday thing. I think I spank her once every other week or so. most days I can get her to stop with just a look or the tone of my voice. Also, someone mentioned undisciplined kids running crazy around the house. My sister's kids are those kids. my sister yells for the kids to stop and threatens to spank but doesn't follow through. and they know she won't. so they don't listen. I spank my niece and nephew (and yes my sister knows I spank them). they are crazy when they first get to my house. then I remind them of the house rules and remind them I WILL spank them and they usually behave because they know I WILL follow through. I think it all comes down to knowing the kid because ALL kids are different and what works for one might not for another. and whatever your form of discipline is ALWAYS FOLLOW THROUGH. my parents used to threaten me all the time and didn't follow through and I knew they didn't so I wasn't scared at all. oh also, I point out bad kids when we are out in public. we've all seen the kid screaming at the top of his/her lungs because they want a toy or candy and their parent said no. I point to them and say "Hailey you see that kid? that is NOT an ok way to act in public. If you ever act that way I will spank you" she is 4 years old and I have only had to spank her once for acting out in public. to any of you parents that think spanking is the worst thing in the world all I can say is...I don't have to answer to you. NOTHING you can say to me will ever change my mind on the topic. I'm not telling you to start spanking your kids. I'm not telling you how to raise your kid...don't try to tell me how to raise mine.

OhJessie - posted on 06/07/2011

See, this is the trouble with bringing up scriptural issues in mixed company - it's not the authority for people who aren't Christian, and they aren't under any obligation to live by it. So debating the finer points is REALLY pointless; which is why it's rather pointless to even bring it up.

OhJessie - posted on 06/07/2011

Johnny, the fact remains the website is incorrect. Not about the full phrase about sparing the rod, but the implications it draws. It's kind of funny, actually, since the actual wording of the verse IS so much *stronger* (not weaker) than the now more common "spare the rod, spoil the child" because it goes so far as to say the parent who spares the rod HATES his child. The only part that was correct, and it proves pretty much the opposite of what they're trying to say. It's not something I say often because it only applies to people who follow the bible, for one thing, and because I use scripture more to convict myself than to point a finger at anyone else. *shrug* Didn't mean it was right, at any rate. It wasn't. Any more than the rest of the citations, like Psalm 137 and Matthew 18, about the millstone. In general people who are non-Christians who try to get into biblical arguments really don't know what they think they do. I mean, it's fine not to know everything in detail - they're not your beliefs. As they are mine, I have a sort of need to correct them when they're misused.

Chatty - posted on 06/07/2011

THAT was FUNNY! Goodnight all...

Cynthia - posted on 06/07/2011

dana you can borrow my rod.

Chatty - posted on 06/07/2011

I'm just gonna go spank Roxanne and call 'er a day because all this religion stuff is getting on my nerves.

Cynthia - posted on 06/07/2011

ok lets assume god did say to beat your kids with a stick. i'm not saying he did but lets flatter julie the one who understands godly things, so he said it, or inspired Solomon to say it. does it make it right today?

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

I have read the bible cover to cover twice , it is all an intepretaion , a translation , it has been re worded and re written over time by men who are falliable .



It is full of contradictions which brings me back to the original question , why choose to follow the word of king solomon the heratic and sinner ? we can all see that it worked terribly for his own children , why do you not choose to follow the word of jesus the son of god who did not condone the thoughts and actions of King solomon .?

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

Nicki and Julie; "the Bible says" isn't a synonym for "truth". 'Inspired by' means simply that one idea was inspired by another. God is an idea...God does not exist. God does not 'be'. Everyone interprets the idea of God in various ways and that is what branches out into religion and spiritualism. You have chosen to interpret the Bible as the word of God...but since God is not in corporeal form and you can't thus prove to anyone that the Bible is factually the word of God, it's a weak argument. I could write a book tomorrow about how to fart rainbows and say that it's inspired by unicorns...are you gonna just take my word for it?

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

no...its your wrong interpretation.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

keep losing my internet...its annoying!!! Well like I said you have idea of he truth of Godly things.......you cant its impossible for you....sorry.

Nicki - posted on 06/07/2011

the bible says in 2Timothy 3:16 "ALL scripture is inspired of God ..."

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

Really ? was god confused when he told Jesus , John and Paul to preach the opposite ?

Chatty - posted on 06/07/2011

Butter on a skateboard? LMFAO!

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

Oh, we get what you're saying Julie...but it makes about as much sense as butter on a skateboard!

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Wrong ,you sould know that God came upon every man to write the bible....its God inspired. Dont you get it???

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

"He that spareth the rod hateth his son, but he who loveth him chastiseth him betimes" (Prov. 13:24). "Chasten thy son while there is still hope and let not thy soul spare for his crying" (Prov. 19:18).

These are quotations from the Book of Proverbs, the twentieth book of the Holy Bible. There are some who hold that these proverbs are the Word of God. That the Lord sanctions and indeed advocates the corporal punishment of youth. But the Holy Bible tells us otherwise. Proverbs is the word of a mortal man, "Solomon, the son of David, King of Israel" (Proverbs 1:1). The tenth chapter tells us again, these are "The Proverbs of Solomon" (Prov. 10:1)

God does also talk to Solomon - twice to bless him (I Kings 3:11-14, 9:2-9) and later to condemn Solomon for his evil-doing (I Kings 11:11-13), but never to approve using "the rod" on youth. The words of Proverbs are Solomon's only. Never the "Lord's".

So I ask where is it that you are following gods word ?

There is no authority in the Bible for the corporal punishment of children with rod or otherwise, except in the Proverbs of Solomon. It is only Solomon who recommends child-beating. Never the Lord.

Solomon's child-rearing methods worked very badly for his own son, Prince Rehoboam. Solomon has an undeserved reputation for wisdom. In reality, he left his country oppressed and impoverished. In his later years, he turned to idol worship and practiced "the abominations of Chemosh and Moloch".

Paul warned Fathers against the anger and resentment that might be aroused in their children by corporal punishments. The way of love was better.

St. Paul deplored the punishment of youth by human fathers who chastised youth "for their own pleasure". Only divine chastisements were righteous.

Jesus and John saw children as being close to God and urged love rather than fear in education.

If a Christian henceforth grabs for a rod or a paddle because "the Bible says so", he is heeding the words of an idol-worshipping king, rather than the words of Christ.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

opps..lost my internet...what question?

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

You have not answered my question .

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

thats fine.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

So whats a rod to you?

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

I'm going to consider that a rhetorical question Christina and ignore it. Julie, whatever you need to tell yourself, but my disagreeing with your POV doesn't amount to my not understanding the Bible. We interpret it differently and I disagree with it as an effective guide for disciplining children. It's that simple.

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

" Its not even speaking of abuse....see your twisting it. "

You seem to have misunderstood , I asked why if you take it litterally that you do not use a rod , I then stated that I am not encorouging using a rod though as it is considered abuse and a weapon , understand ?
I was not twisting anything just asking a question and making it clear that not I or our legal system ( In australia ) condone the use of weapons .

Christina - posted on 06/07/2011

Wow...are we all GROWN women in here?? My goodness.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Vague...because its personal, and something you couldnt understand at all.

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

Ah, the vagueness of your answer tells me all I need to know about your chats with God. So now that we've cleared that up....

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Old testament verses new

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Plenty!!

Cynthia - posted on 06/07/2011

wow. to go to the bible to justify spanking is outrageous. i've read the bible and i understand a lot of it. i know that their were punishments in that book that we would land a man today in prison for life. we wouldn't stone anyone today. the bible is full of old ways that we have came above. its so sad that people use the bible this way. and i have come to realize that most people can find a passage in the book to support about anything. its just a story book. written by man. some of it may be true but because it was written by so many different men and translated so many times today it is fiction. the Bible does not justify spanking no more then it justify murder. i know it says spare the rod spoil the child. i understand what that means. but it also say an eye for an eye.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Its not even speaking of abuse....see your twisting it.

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

What did God say directly to you Julie?

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

until God has spoken dirrectly to you....you have no idea of Godly things.

Chatty - posted on 06/07/2011

LMFAO! Christian google. Yikes. Can you imagine?

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

That would be 'goggles' Julie, not google. And that's my point exactly...my reading the Bible doesn't give me a deeper understanding of God the same as it won't give you a deeper understanding of God. And why is that? Because God didn't write the Bible. The 'word of God' that is written within, is written from the perspective of Man...that is a fact.

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

Also many christians see the rod as a guide to discipline as the crook was a guide for the flock , not as a tool to belt with ; having said that why is it if you take it litterally that you do not use a rod ( not that I encourage abuse with a weapon) ?

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

I dont need Christian google....thanks though. But you reading has no true understanding of the things of God.

Chatty - posted on 06/07/2011

When did this become a religious debate? I cannot stand it when religion creeps into everything. It IS like a foreign language and it's rude to speak in a foreign tongue in front of people who don't speak it. :P

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

ok and thats fine....I do!!

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

I will also add that knowledge and understanding are not synonymous. You can quote all the scripture you want, but that does not automatically prove that you understand what is written in those passages anymore than I. We interpret the Bible differently, based on our beliefs. I do not think the Bible serves as an appropriate guidebook for how to discipline children effectively.

Charlie - posted on 06/07/2011

Like I said Proverbs was written by a sinner and heratic who Jesus did not agree with .

Do you choose the words of king solomon over Jesus ?

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

Seriously? That's your rebuttal? "Only Christians can understand, its like a [foreign] language to non chrisitians". I can promise you that I read, speak and write English very clearly and have quite an ability to understand what is written in the Bible with more than Christian goggles!

Chatty - posted on 06/07/2011

"he who loves him is careful to discipline him"

DISCIPLINE does NOT include spanking. Gah!

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

opps....foreign.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Only Christains can understand, its like a freign language to non christains.

Jaime - posted on 06/07/2011

Julie, Man wrote the Bible, and it has been seen throughout history that many of the great, classic stories of centuries past are dripping with metaphor. I see the above sentence and I realize it's open to interpretation because Man wrote the Bible and there is no clear distinction that what is being said is in ACTUAL FACT, the word of God.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

No....its God breathed and inspired.

Betsy - posted on 06/07/2011

I have spanked and may continue to do so IN ADDITION TO other forms of punishment. Punishment must fit the crime/child. My child is very stubborn and we had had issues with going out in the road and leaving the yard without permission. As he has gotten older there are other things I can do - make him stay inside, take away certain toys, TV, library.... I would still spank him in a heartbeat, though, if he went out in the road. I would rather have him sore and angry/troubled than run over.

Julie - posted on 06/07/2011

Proverbs13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

Johnny - posted on 06/07/2011

Wow. Jessie. Actually KNOWING the TRUTH. That is an amazing sense of certainty. Most Christians I know would not claim to KNOW God's word. I guess they're not much as Christian then, lol.