From Cafemom.com - 36 reasons why you are capable of having a natural childbirth.

A - posted on 06/02/2011 ( 33 moms have responded )

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We hear so much negativity about birth these days that it sometimes gets lost in the shuffle that women are divinely designed to birth babies. This is a miracle, but it is also so totally normal and a simple bodily function. Here are a few reminders (yes, many of them obvious) of the truth that we have forgotten about our bodies.

1. You are a woman
2. Your mother was a woman and she gave birth to you.
3. As was your grandmother and all of their mothers before them.
4. Women have literally for 1000's of years been doing this and surviving. The proof is that we are all HERE.
5. Medical doctors stepped into birth only about 100 years ago, and yet people were breeding successfully all that time before.
6. You have a vagina.
7. You got pregnant.
8. You are gestating beautifully.
9. All the discomforts and aches and pains, though possibly annoying, prove that your body is DOING its job.
10. You have breasts.
11. Those breasts exist in large part for one reason: to feed your offspring.
12. Your monthly cycle.
13. Many natural urges exist in part to bring about this child.
14. Your growing abdomen.
15. Your extra weight gain.
16. Your full breasts.
17. Your food cravings.
18. Your pre-labor or Braxton-Hicks contractions show that your body is preparing to birth.
19. Stretch marks indicate growth and fertility.
20. The epidural= new invention.
21. The episiotomy= also, new (and unnecessary).
22. The c-section= again new, and yet, women most often survived birth during all those years.
23. Your bones and ligaments are moving and softening to open for the baby.
24. You have hips.
25. You have a pelvis, and it is very different than that of a man.
26. Your pelvis, though bony is movable.
27. Have a big butt? Embrace it- it is a sign of your fertility.
28. Small butt? That's OK too- you will just fit in your skinny jeans faster. Your pelvis still moves.
29. Your ancestors for 1000's of years gave birth with no medical intervention, and they must have survived, because, here you are! (I know, a repeat- it is important!)
30. Birth is the natural end and climax of the act of making love.
31. Worried about birth pain? Don't be. Contractions are natures way of letting you know that your baby is coming. Without this warning system, we could drop our babies ANYWHERE, safe or not. The birth process is necessary preparation for a safe arrival.
32. Your baby moves- he or she is preparing you to love them.
33. Your babies movement also shows how good you are (without even trying I might add) at feeding and growing a baby.
34. All prenatal tests are new inventions. Your ancestors also gave birth without these.
35. Even 50 years ago the c-section rate was around 4%. This "need" for constant surgery is a new occurrence.
36. Worried about motherhood? The birth process and all its stages are also helping prepare you to mother with confidence. The lessons you learn in labor (faith, excitement, hard work, pain, joy, giving up, euphoria) will all be repeated over and over as you raise your children. It is natures preparation for mothering.

Midwives see birth as a miracle and only mess with it if there's a problem;
doctors see birth as a problem and if they don't mess with it, it's a miracle! ~Barbara Harper

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Jenni - posted on 06/02/2011

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I can find a few discrepancies with this:



2. My mother had me via c-section when I was presented breeched and she had been labouring for 72 hours with no progression. She subsequently had her next two children via c-section.

3 and 4. "At the beginning of the 20th century, for every 1000 live births, six to nine women in the United States died of pregnancy-related complications, and approximately 100 infants died before age 1 year (1,2). From 1915 through 1997, the infant mortality rate declined greater than 90% to 7.2 per 1000 live births, and from 1900 through 1997, the maternal mortality rate declined almost 99% to less than 0.1 reported death per 1000 live births (7.7 deaths per 100,000 live births in 1997)"

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml...

and

"Furthermore, a religious community that declined professional care showed absolutely no decline in maternal mortality when compared with that of 100 years ago. These facts demonstrate the importance of the medical professionals available to us and the impact they have had over time."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

5. Yes people were breeding since the beginning of time. There was also 100x higher risks of infant mortality and maternal mortality 100 years ago.

6. I do have a vagina but apparently my infants couldn't read it's exit sign.

7. Getting pregnant is the easy part. ;)

8. Many women suffer from complications in their pregnancy or are considered high risk pregnancies.

9. Sure. But they're still annoying.

10. I guess, If you consider my little B cups to be breasts. I kid! I kid!

11. Really? My husband just thinks of them as fun bags. Yes I'm pro-breastfeeding... for myself. Couldn't give a hairy gorilla's behind what other people do with theirs.

12. I didn't forget about my period... I'm reminded of it monthly. :P

13. Does she mean... getting horny? teehee *blush*

14. Awwww. Tis a beautiful thing. Until the baby comes out and it looks like a deflated beach ball.

15. Extra weight gain? Please don't remind me.

16. Full breasts. Now that for me, IS fabulous. *woot* *woot* I have cleavage for the first time in my life!!

17. Food cravings. Mmmmm sausages with peanut butter smeared all over them.

18. Braxton hicks. They were pretty cool. I liked 'em, they made me feel giddy.

19. Stretch marks- they don't tell you you're wasting $30 a month on stretch mark creams that don't do jack.

20. Epideral- new invention? Yup it's right up there with the light bulb IMO. :))

21. Episiotomy- beats having a big old c-section scar.

22. WRONG! See 3 and 4. And I don't know about anyone else but I'd take the operation over the risk of death of my infant or myself. Sorry. It's the lesser of two evils.

23. Apparently, mine didn't open up enough.

24. You have hips. Barely (see breasts)

25. You have a pelvis. (see breasts)

26. Apparently, not in my case.

27. N/A

28. My butt is small but a year later and I'm still wearing my mat clothes.

29. See 3 and 4.

30. I like that one.

31. and can be done away with; with a good epideral.

32. Awwww. So sweet.

33. Just wait until they're 2 years old. :S

34. Prenatal testing SAVES LIVES!!! Are they not worth it????? THIS ONE IS RIDCULOUS on so many levels. grrrr. I can't believe this woman is advocating against prenatal care. How completely irresponsible.

35. Although I'm not a fan of elective c-sections without medical necessity. C-sections have come a long way since 50 years ago and when death or lifelong damage is a possible outcome for mother or baby then it's simply not worth the risk to birth vag... IMO and believe me... I attempted twice to birth vag.

36. I like that metaphor



I think it's great to have a midwife. But sorry most of this is extremely bias and leaves out a lot of critical information when it comes to health and safety during pregnancy and childbirth.... it sounds like she's a successful homebirthing/breastfeeding advocate who's trying to say ALL women are capable of natural birthing and breastfeeding simply because we're women.

I'm all for women wanting to experience natural child births but when you're like me and tried that route and failed; it's articles and opinions like this that make you feel like a failure as a woman and mother.



We are all beautiful, strong women and mothers no matter how we birth our babies and what decisions we make to care for them after birth. And I don't buy the whole "this is all natural and what our bodies are meant to do". There are plenty of women out there who can't birth naturally and who can't nurse no matter how hard they try. All this article does is rub salt in those mother's wounds.



To further support the benefits of obstetric care, the World Health Organization puts out an estimate of 15% of women require serious medical intervention to prevent long-term complications in their futures.



I don't care if you had an orgasm during childbirth Mrs. Barbara Harper. My c-section births/medical intervention births are just as special and as beautiful of an experience to me as your natural births are to you.

Jenni - posted on 06/03/2011

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ooooo boy. A lot to address here A Marquot... and you certainly have done your homework. There are a lot of things you've said where I agree with you on. I'm not going to address everything you've stated, but I will a few:

If that is the c-section rate in your area that it very high indeed. Here in Canada; our c-section rate is approx 15%-25%... in most developed countries that is the range. Now that point I made about WHO: They recommend the rate to be around 15% (that is the percent of women who would need medical intervention during labour to prevent lifelong damage). So although the rate is marginally higher than would is recommended... it isn't ground breakingly so.

I haven't heard of Pregnant in America but I think it really comes down to, as Sara pointed out, the doctor. Although, I think having a midwife is an awesome addition to your birthing team. If I could go back I would have had one.

As far as reading about what's happening to my body (can't speak for anyone else) I had 5 encyclopedias on pregnacy and birth also vast inet resources and any follow up questions for my OBGYN.

Everyone wants a healthy baby above everything else. My births were about MY CHILDREN too and doing what's best for them. I had two inductions. Both my pregnancies went to 42 weeks and I waited as long as hospital policy would allow before I was induced. The LAST thing I wanted was an induction. My son (my first born) had already passed mechonium. When they broke my water at the hospital the day of my induction. I laboured for 24 hours with him stuck at 3.5 cm.

But I do understand; there are things that probably could have been done before they decided to rush me in for an emer c-section. Maybe, honestly... I don't know. I'm not a doctor and I'm going to trust my OBGYN's opinion over some inet research and blogs.

I'm just really tired of it being implied the c-section mamas and using pain meds for labour means we don't deserve the woman/mother's medal.
Are our babies here? Are our baby's healthy? Perfectly. So really.... who cares? Why should a woman be made to feel less of a mother/woman than you (general you). Why does her birth have to be constantly critiqued because she uses pain meds or gave birth in a hospital bed instead of a birthtub in her livingroom? Why do these women have to constantly justify and defend their births to others?

It sort of rubs me the wrong way like when BFing Nazis here on COM try to make formula feeding moms feel bad for their decisions, tell them they didn't try hard enough and that's why they 'gave up' BFing. It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It creates inferiority complexes in other moms, who for all anyone knows genuinely did try their hardest to birth naturally or to breastfeed. Maybe they lacked the resources at the time or had geniune medical conditions... who knows? But they should be applauded for trying at least, not told they didn't try hard enough. Just because they didn't succeed like you or others doesn't make them failures.

Like I said; I'm pro-breastfeeding for myself but I'm not going to harp on anyone else for choosing to formula feed or assume they are simply ignorant to 'breast is best'. You'd have to be living under a rock not to know that.

I breastfed both my children. 72 hours straight in the hospital. My milk came in beautifully within 24 hours. My goal with my first was to breastfeed to at least 12 months. He began refusing the breast at 7 months. I was not familar at the time with 'breast refusal' and I took it as early weening and switched him to formula. It is a regret of mine that I didn't try harder or do more research at them time. So with my daughter I was highly determined to breastfeed to the 2 year mark. Both my children gained weight at an above exceptional rate after I left the hospital... the nurses were astonished that I was exclusively breastfeeding. However, around the 2-3 month mark with my daughter I ran into problems. She began to refuse more and more. I tried EVERYTHING. Did tons of research... co-slept and spent hours upon hours in bed nursing her... in the dark. I made it to 7 months exclusively breastfeeding with her latching off and on screaming... always hungry until she started losing weight. I pumped after every feed. Consulted nurses, lactation consultants.... everything under the sun. I began supplimenting with formula and EBM and made it to 8 months before I finally couldn't handle it anymore. I was angry, depressed, defeated and I felt like a failure. I was beginning to feel frustrated towards her and that scared me to death. I had to finally wake up and realize despite all this CRAP that was drilled into my head about women being MADE to breastfeed... that it was no longer in the cards for me. I FELT LIKE A FAILURE. I made the complete switch to formula when she was 9 months. I finally realized struggling to BF was more detrimental to me and her than making the switch. The first time I gave her a bottle of formula was the first time she was satisfied after a feed and HAPPY. I cried, I was so relieved.

Funny thing is; My mom experienced the same thing with all three of us. She said my brother was the hardest. She laid in bed like I did constantly and after 3 months he was still failure to thrive.
Sorry but being told we didn't try hard enough or research enough only adds insult to injury. It makes US feel like FAILURES as women and mothers.
No. I don't believe ALL women can birth naturally. No. I don't believe ALL women can breastfeed. And no, I don't fault those women and blame them for it. They've had it hard enough.

I would LOVE that all women could birth naturally and breastfeed. I think that would be wonderful.... so I can appreciate your sentiments. But unfortunately it's not in the cards for every woman/mother and baby. Do some give up before exhausting all avenues? Sure. Is some of that based on ignorance? Could be. But it's their births and their babies and I don't know any of their particular situations so I WILL NOT judge them for their birthing decisions or feeding decisions. I just don't care. I believe they are all doing what they feel is best for their child and themselves. I will not imply they are selfish for the decisions they made (ie: pain meds or using formula or heck even OPTING for a ceasarian.) Those are personal choices for individual families to decide.

Yes the c-section rate is higher than it should be. But the maternal/infant mortality rates are much lower. I think they are the lesser of two evils.

As far as the ultrasounds go, the testing.. what not... I thought you only had two ultrasounds unless you are considered high risk. Without them; many conditions would go undiagnosed and without medical intervention many babies and mothers would die.

It just reminds me of whole vax debate. I just see one side as the lesser of two evils.... the risks not to far outweigh the risks to have it done.

I'm just tired... and jaded from the whole superiority complex that comes from nat birthers, home birthers, breastfeeders etc. that seems hell-bent on making other moms feel inferior or implies they are selfish or they don't try their hardest to do what's best for their children....

I hate the implications that we are all ignorant and haven't done as much research as other mothers and that's why we failed.

Sorry... I don't mean to rant.... but as you can tell I'm jaded and tired of being told I'm a failure by other moms (geez I've said that a lot now). I don't want any other moms to have to feel the way I do.

We all try the best we can, with the knowledge we're given and we are all beautiful, strong Mamas no matter what parenting choices we make. We are ALL doing what we feel is best for our children... you (general you) are not any more selfless than the rest of us.

Be proud of how you birth, be proud of how you provide nourishment for you child; hold your head up high.

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Although I agree. If I lived 100+ years ago... I'd be dead. I would have died with my first miscarriage if not from the hemorrhaging from the infection that was sure to follow. In order for me to stay pregnant I have to take hormone supliments. I LOVE ultrasound and hearing the heartbeat it give me a sense of ease. They aren't unsafe... it is merely sound waves like sonar, it don't cause any problems.

My daughter was born via c-section due to the fact that her heartrate after dropping 3 times was not going back up the 3rd time and I was only 5 cm dialated. She would have died. Again I hemorrhaged and would have died if I hadn't been in a hospital.

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Interesting. I agree that our bodies were made to give birth. And I loved my natural birth...except for the tearing part. I hated my c-section...except that it saved my daughter's life. Most of the time there should be no problem with natural childbirth. But when there is a problem, thank God for modern medicine.



Edit to add: I very much dislike the generalization about doctors. Yes midwives are great, but there are some pretty awesome doctors out there too.

A - posted on 06/02/2011

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Okay- I should have credited the 36-list to someone named Tammy. The end quote was added after (also by Tammy). Interesting, and I have my own views on the list. But a few thoughts;

1. Our local OB group has a 48.7% c-section rate. I REFUSE to think half of the women alive cannot give birth without intervention. My midwives have an 11% c-section rate- as it should be. This is why, although I was initially all about the epidural, once I met the midwives & they taught me the physiology of birth- there was NO WAY I was going to risk intervention & c-section.
Interventions are becoming "the norm", which I think is ridiculous. If you watch "Pregnant in America", you'll see that the wife of the filmmaker was scheduled for a c-section "because the baby was too big to be born naturally". The wife had her doubts, and at the last minute, she fired her doctor. Her baby was born the next day- no interventions, no drugs, just fine. When the husband went to ask her primary doctor about this, he wasn't there because he'd gone on a scheduled vacation the day AFTER he'd scheduled her c-section.

I understand that probably MOST women have not been told, or not read about what physically happens inside the body when they give birth and why "natural" is by far the safest for the baby. My child's birth was about HIM, not my comfort, which is why I cringe when I read about scheduled c-sections (for anything other than life-threatening issues).

1. My answers don't match, numerically. Wasn't trying to! :)

2. My son was also breech, but using a breech-tilt method & pulsatilla, I was able to turn him around in time for his birth. If that hadn't worked, there were about 20 other things I'd have tried after that.

3. I won't go into my issues with the CDC here.

4. I don't have any problem with intervention WHEN absolutely everything else has been tried- and has failed.

5. Mortality? Yes, but let's not forget the vast hygiene & living differences we have now.

6. I myself was considered "high risk" by my OB group due to my "advanced maternal age" of 39. They had me get SEVEN ultrasounds by the time I was 6 months along. SEVEN! The midwives thought this was hogwash (and unsafe) & I had no invasive exams from that point on, and everything came out perfectly. Literally.

7. I have B's too. :) I'm happy to see that 15 month along & my son is still being nourished by them. I never before understood how important breastfeeding is, and while I'll not say anything to those who don't want to, or can't (My husband's sister didn't because she "didn't want to feel like a cow") I will help ANYONE along in this pursuit.

8. Extra weight gain.... yeah... right there with ya! Ugh!

9. Food cravings - grapes. That was it. I'd been looking forward to SOMETHING more fun!

10. Stretch marks? NONE! WOO HOO!!! I credit "Mother's Special Blend". Found at Whole Foods & Vitamin Shoppe. Each bottle lasted about 3 months, and makes a killer make-up remover too! I STILL use it.

11. Episiotomy- none. Stitched up afterwards. Tore in ways I didn't know a person could tear.

12. Pre-natal testing... yes, but SHOULD BE LIMITED! Ugh. I also NOW know that you don't WANT SEVEN ultrasounds... they come with risks too! Fercryinoutloud.

If anyone went to my OBGYN group, they'd probably be very happy. My primary OB was really nice- I REALLY liked her. My first pregnancy became a "missed" miscarriage, and she did my emergency D&C. As I was about to be put under, she told me she'd had four miscarriages, but also has three kids. I REALLY liked her. Very very kind woman. Then I asked her about water-birth, and she had no idea how it worked, or where I could go for that. Then I realized that at all my visits, I was examined, then asked "Do you have any questions?" Well- I didn't know what I didn't know. UNTIL I met the midwives. My first midwife met my husband and me on her day off, and spent 2.5 hours discussing the physiology of birth. We walked away from that meeting feeling like the cloud of birth had been lifted, and I was taken OFF the conveyer-belt of awfulness that I previously thought birth would be. I had TOTALLY wanted the epidural! Why not? Why not avoid that pain? Well there are so many reasons!

Birth is such a beautiful thing, but it's not really about the beauty of it. It's about the safety of the baby. I wish more doctors would just relax & let things happen naturally. The body is not on a schedule. One of my friend's water broke, and 15 hours later they induced labor. WIth the midwives, they would have waited 24 hours. (And would have tried all kinds of non-invasive things to get things going.)

More of us can have babies than they let us think. There are WAY fewer "emergencies" than we think there are. I expect 48% of the women who birth in our local hospital are not going in with elective c-sections. A few- sure. But 48.7%? So, HALF the time, the doctors there think it's an emergency? And how, year after year, with about 300 births per year, do our midwives keep the c-section rate to 11%? What do they know that my OB group doesn't? Lots, I think. At least, by the way they volunteered information (none) and answered questions (poorly/vaguely)

Pitocin alters the WAY the body contracts, making things much more painful. So you normally then ask for an epidural. The contractions are now stronger, (and not peristaltic, but equally- and unnaturally strong in all the muscles at the same time) which causes fetal distress, which makes the baby's heart slow down, which makes doctors decide it's now an emergency & a c-section often follows... because of the drugs the doctor gave in the first place.

Pitocin is being looked into in relation to autism & other neurologic disorders. If not for the chemical itself, but for how it presses on the baby unnaturally. Also, immediate cord-clamping is being examined, as it deprives the baby of between 25-40% of the blood they would get naturally from the placenta after birth. Delayed cord-clamping also aids in a gentle transition from getting oxygen from the placenta to getting oxygen from the lungs- which aren't used before birth & need that time to adjust. Many babies' first cries are from respiratory distress from not having enough time to adjust to the new way of breathing. How many doctors wait to cut the cord?

I also have come to the belief that our growing problem with post-partum depression is a direct result of more women not getting the "love cocktail" of chemicals their bodies needed during the birth process. I'm THRILLED for women who come through birth with lots of interventions & no problems afterward. But given that we see more problems now (culturally), it is not without reason. I believe interventions can deprive the bodies of the mom & baby of the chemicals they need for bonding & possibly even breastfeeding. Especially if the baby is removed from the mother for more than an hour- breastfeeding gets harder with time. Babies need to move to the breast as soon as they can and NOT be out of the room after birth or delayed in breastfeeding. The natural will & ability to breastfeed is strongest for the first hour of birth & then starts to wane.

I could go on & on & on, and maybe I'll do a different post later on (of my own) and y'all can disagree with me there. Let me finish for now with a series of examples. I know of 10 women who gave birth at the same time or within the year I did. SIX of them chose to have epidurals, pitocin... whatever was advised or allowed by the doctor. One of them had a very traumatic birth, with forceps used at the end. None of those six are breastfeeding (a few did have the baby removed for a time after birth.) The other four women (who all had the midwives I did) had natural childbirth, only one had pain meds (something like Tylenol or the like), none had interventions, epidurals, pitocin, or c-sections, ALL are breastfeeding, only one had issues for a while due to a yeast issue. I think these statistics, from women I know personally, are very telling. The first six wanted the epidural nearby, and used it when it was offered. The four & myself without epidurals simply decided it was not an option, and managed just fine.

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33 Comments

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Toni - posted on 06/15/2011

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My first child I birthed with an epidural, the next two, I went drug free and wish I had done it for the first one. It hurt terribly, but it was soooo worth it. Love my boys!!

A - posted on 06/07/2011

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And yes- most of the docs I listed I've watched on Netflix on my phone while my son slept in my arms. I'm LOVING modern technology for things like that!

A - posted on 06/07/2011

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I wasn't in love with Paris the first 9 months I lived there, but once summer came- I fell hard for my husband's city. The mayor does a fantastic job keeping things busy for the residents & visitors during the summer. We were there almost three years & we intend to get a second home there one day like my brother-in-law does. (My husband is French, born & bred.)

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thats the great thing about documentaries, if you can't find them on youtube, you can get them on Netflix (which we have INSTEAD of cable) You should see my Instant Que on there! LOL
I agree France is beautiful, visited 3 times so far. Paris is not as beautiful as you would think, very dirty,which is surprising for a European country.
yeah isn't it like 96 strains altogether?

A - posted on 06/04/2011

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AND, (and I know you know this already) the Flu shot only covers up to three strains of flu, out of MANY that they THINK will present itself the next year AND it doesn't work in children under 2... etc etc

A - posted on 06/04/2011

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Oh- and the docs that can be found on YouTube I posted earlier in this thread. I really liked Dr Tenpenny's LONG, info-filled lecture, "Vaccine Nation" was very moving, and "Food Beware; The French Organic Revolution" was easy on the eyes (beautiful country... minus the pesticides.) and inspiring.

A - posted on 06/04/2011

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(That should have read The Gerson Miracle. I'll add TWAtM to mine too. They show up a LOT in these things! And my all-time fave has got to be "The Business of Being Born". I didn't care for Rikki Lake much before that but I wish I could hug her now! :)

[deleted account]

oh, and definitely check out "The World According to Monsanto" if you haven't already and can find the time

A - posted on 06/04/2011

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I have quite a list of documentaries I recommend to those who are interested- you've likely seen them too; (Food Inc is one of them)

Tapped
Stress: Portrait of a Killer
The Future of Food
The Gerson Mirale
Deconstructing Supper
What's On Your Plate?
Food Matters
This Emotional Life
The Beautiful Truth
Freakonomics
Generation RX
Pregnant in America
King Corn
The Science of Healing
Frontline; The Medicated Child
Frontline; The Vaccine War
No Impact Man
Shoot 'em Up (very poorly made, but interesting)
Killer at Large

And that kinda decends in how much I liked it.

:)

Nikki - posted on 06/04/2011

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Jennifer, I want to give you a round of applause for your second comment, loved it!

[deleted account]

A Marquot: I love your passion on the subject(s)! I, too, am very conscious about what my son eats, drinks, or is injected with.
Have you ever watched Food Inc.?
Do you know much about Monsanto?
Did you know that the flu vaccine doesn't even work? Thats why we "have" to get a new one every year?

Jenni - posted on 06/03/2011

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No one is 'right' on these debates. There are no winners. It's just for fun. Just to stimulate intelligent conversation. Some debates are just for fun and some are more serious. I find it's helpful to encourage research and to see things from a different persepective. I guess it's all what you want to take from it.

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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Actually, it's the glossophobia, not the debate I was afraid of, but I still don't need to be right.

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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Debataphobic! lol Yep. (Though after marrying a Frenchman I've gotten MUCH better at it!)

Jenni - posted on 06/03/2011

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hahah alright then. It is mostly just about educating ourselves on other points of views and challenging our own way of thinking but I don't want to pressure you if you're a debataphobic. ;)

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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I'm not a debater at all... I'm NOT trying to be right- just present what I've learned & let others take it or leave it. :) (I was always terrified someone would make me join the debate team in high-school!)

Jenni - posted on 06/03/2011

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Oh geez louise woman. You're giving me a head ache! lol no no I don't mean that in a bad way. Just too much info all at once! Too many different topics all at once! I just don't know where to start debating with you. :)

Maybe you should join our debating community. It's called Debating Mums. It's a lot of fun and we can debate such topics individually.

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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This is a really good doc; Made my poor husband cry for the condition of his country

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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Watch this when you next have THREE FRICKIN' HOURS of "free" time; (It's actually wildly informative, and MUCH of the info is from the CDC, which you like)

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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Wait... I just want to say most emphatically- I don't blame the moms here! Y'all are great! I am frustrated with our medical system! I don't think doctors have the time to really examine what they're taught, and they pass on information that I believe is very incomplete. Like I said, I was all for the epidural, and my OB group was fine with that. It wasn't until someone ELSE starting educating me that I was made aware. I'm not trying to say anything about ANYONE'S past birth experiences. I feel compelled, with what I NOW know, to share some of it with others so that in the future they feel freer to ask more questions, and hopefully feel more confidant in their own bodies. Is it a crime I wish to help people get a better birth? Should I NOT present this side because women have had bad birth experiences & take it upon themselves to feel put upon by those of us who want future births to be better? And besides, WHERE in MY post did I blame YOU for your birth experience? I have tried to make it obvious I blame our current birth system, not the mothers, when things go wrong. (And if our c-section rate were- at highest- around 25%? I'd worry far less!) I am trying to inspire strength in women. I believe we've given our power away to people we hope know more than we do, and I don't feel we don't question them nearly enough. I knew more about buying a car than I did about birth until I met our midwives.

I think most women chose- to the best of their abilities- for their kids. Even elective c-sections, I believe, are made with full faith that there are no negatives for mom or baby. Or- few. I believe we all need better education, and it has to be at least HINTED at somewhere. I am now regretting the seven ultrasounds I had, and IF someone (on a forum like this perhaps) had mentioned it was unsafe, I might have been curious to ask more questions and had fewer of them in the end. But it all comes back to our education. My biggest lesson was; I didn't know what I didn't know. I still don't. But I'm doing what I can to learn all I can. Constantly growing & changing is a skill I admire greatly in my husband. He's not content unless he's learning.

I'm sorry you found breastfeeding so tough, and of COURSE you should have switched to formula when it didn't work. I've never said you were a failure. I'm hoping you're not reading into my words things I am NOT saying. I'm STILL not saying YOU were a failure when I post this observation; I found that the women who said defiantly (that word is important) before the birth of their child, "There are some women who CAN'T breast-feed..." are the same women who couldn't, once their child was born. The ones who decided they would have no problems, or if they did, they'd keep trying until success... [IN MY CIRCLE OF FRIENDS ONLY in this example] - were able to, even with problems. (It took six weeks of GREAT pain before breastfeeding became fun for me.) I have never put much faith in "mind over matter", but my birth experience makes me think maybe there's something to this. SOOO much of my friend's births went according to their mental beliefs about birth. Just an interesting thought, I'm not saying ANYTHING about YOU & your experience!! I don't think I can say that enough.

It's ironic that as women age, they get MORE ultrasounds. If ultrasounds are dangerous, as I have NOW learned, perhaps it's the ultrasound, not the age, that is of first concern. Just a thought.

Vaccines? Oy. You went there. I wasn't gonna... I really wasn't gonna. Yes, I have done SERIOUS homework on this one too, and though I use to be pro-vax... yes, I confess... I NOW see too much info that says the opposite about the safety. Until about 6 months ago... maybe less, I was only going to delay vaccines until my son turned two. Now, someone has to PROVE the safety and efficacy of vaccines before I'll ever inject another one into myself, or ever a first into my child. Recent development, mind you... I was on YOUR side of the fence until recently. (And for almost every pro-vax argument I had or I now hear, I've found more argument- more fully developed, to contradict it.)

I posted a few links to videos in this spot, but when I posted, they showed up at the top, which is silly. So I'll post them after this monologue.

And I could move on to the info on flu vaccines & why THEY are so dangerous. ESPECIALLY for pregnant mothers. Or don't watch any of them. Whatever. (I will not take advise from people like Dr Ofitt who makes loads on vaccines.)

I got a tetanus shot when I was 31 WHILE I had chicken-pox for an awful SECOND time. (I was in my bedroom for a month.) Boy was that a bad move! It was done as a convenience "since I was in the hospital already". NEVER give a sick person a vaccine! WHAT was I thinking?! Well, I wasn't. Vaccinations were a non-issue for me then. But now? I spend literally hours a day (a few days a week at least) researching this and I would not have brought it up had you not mentioned it. Coincidentally, after that shot... IMMEDIATELY after, I became allergic to some nuts, and most laundry detergent. Could it be because of the nut oils & detergents FOUND in vaccines? I believe so. Have you READ what's in these things? I mean- the package inserts? Would you give your child a glass with formaldehyde, human tissue, animal DNA, cleansers, heavy metals and disease in it? If not- WHY not? And WHAT person contracts three or more diseases in one day like the vaccines give? And we WONDER why we have issues?

NOW. I'm NOT all over the autism issue. I do believe vaccines may be related (they haven't been PROVED NOT to be related.) But I want to look at ALL neurological issues after vaccines. I believe many neurological issues are related to encephalitis, which CAN be brought on by fever, (for one). So, when they say, "Well we believe 'said' problem is NOT caused by the vaccine but rather by the fever that followed the vaccine, that's like saying, "Oh, come on. I did NOT injure you. My BAT injured you, but I personally didn't touch you." Under this theory, guns DO kill people, but people don't kill people. This is also where the problem with ultra-sound comes in- the heat generated for the baby during the exam. Pitocin too is related. Point is- I don't just blame vaccines for autism, I think it is a variety of things and events that have all changed in our world in the last 50 years or so.

I think there's a reason women like me end up going "all-in" when it comes to the whole crunchy granola thing. Once you start, it's hard to backpedal to what you use to do. This started with "The Business of Being Born", which led me to switch to midwives & a water-birth, and then I had tests for Hep B & syphilis so we could avoid ALL the shots in the hospital, which then made me begin to question vaccines as a whole. In the meantime, we've been getting rid of the household chemicals in our home. Switching to natural products, and now... we are giving up homeownership... yes, we're MOVING to a rental for the next decade or so so we can lower our home financial burden so we can eat really cleanly, really well. (And travel more, and start to show the world to our son, and take him home to his "other" country. But on a day-to-day basis, we need to lower our bills to eat just about all organic.) It's tough. Eating as pure as possible can get costly. (Well, for us, anyway.) And have you heard the latest on fluoride? I've had headaches for the last 20 years, and could never figure out why. ESPECIALLY after making coffee. WTF!? I thought it was the caffeine, but I did some tests (thanks to Lent!) and discovered I ONLY had headaches after drinking tap water. FILTERED, mind you. (And worst after coffee- because fluoride is concentrated when heated.) We were getting bottled water, but discovered that bottled water can be more hazardous than tap water because bottled has no regulations, whereas tap does. However, THEN I found out our tap water is fluoridated, which is AWFUL. So currently I'm filtering bottled water. It sucks. But until we get a reverse-osmosis machine, or move somewhere without fluoridated tap water, that's what we'll do. (By the way- after 20 years, I'm thrilled to say I now don't have chronic headaches! I never would have guessed it was the water!)

It's not an easy thing to wade through the crap in our world, but we feel it's important and worthwhile. Vaccinations? Painfully distressing how the conversation goes. I don't know anyone who's "on the fence". Either you believe in them or you believe they are destructive. And it is my wish that people relax a little & LET others make the choice they feel is safest for their family. Now! Before ANYONE get on me on this let me present two facts;

1. If you believe in your vaccines, your children are more than safe from mine.
2. The idea of breaking down the "herd immunity", PLEASE realize that unless ALL the adults in our world got boosters, there is NO such thing as herd immunity. Vaccines last 2-10 years as best, so MOST of our countries are mostly unvaccinated. So every un-boostered parent is every bit as risky as any un-vaxed child to "injure" a vaccinated child.
3. Oh wait- another thing, vaccines are never supposed to eliminate the possibility of illness, simply reduce the length & danger OF 'said' illness. On average, 50-75% of the outbreaks happen in vaccinated kids. There are plenty of other statistics & facts I could bring up here, but I really don't feel like it. They're covered well in the videos I link... uh... after.) And again- VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN!!! If you believe in your heart it's the safer thing to do. I commend every mother for doing what she thinks is best for her child. It's not easy to get the whole picture, and we're all trying our best.

A - posted on 06/03/2011

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Samantha- while I don't agree with "hypnobirthing" because women are meant to stay perfectly still when (I can attest) a woman usually needs to move around, it would be good if you could have quiet around you, even as you may be yelling. During birth, the brain is working in a way unlike it normally does, stemming from the back of the brain. Every noise other people makes, especailly "PUSH PUSH" etc., brings you back to the frontal cortex of the brain, which slows labor down. You need to be left in that quiet, out-of-body place that will allow your birth to progress as quickly as it can. I credit this quietness for why my labor & delivery lasted 9 hours. (Okay, I had contractions for two days before, but they weren't "official".) Let me know if you want more details.. I have lots. Obviously. MY answer to that question will always be- "It's not about my comfort. It's about the safety of my child [that I will do all I can to go without drugs]." I think it's a shame birth has become all about the mother and very little about the child. {In regards the pain-management question.)

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I am well into my second pregnancy right now. I decided as soon as I found out I was pregnant again that I would do this one naturally. I got an epiderol with my first son, and did not like it because I could not feel the ENTIRE pushing process. The nurse was telling me to push, but I couldn't feel anything so I couldnt' tell if I was pushing or not. I will have my second boy all naturally, and a lot of people I've talked to about it consider me insane. "Why on EARTH would you want to feel it when you don't have to?" Simple: How do you judge a child's worth when you don't even fully comprehend what it took to bring him/her into the world?

A - posted on 06/02/2011

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I am all for interventions when they are needed. I'm happy you and your daughter are alive & well. I too loved watching my son on the screen until;

"Health practitioners involved in prenatal care have reason to be concerned about the use of ultrasound. Although proponents point out that ultrasound has been used in obstetrics for 50 years and early studies indicated it was safe for both mother and child, enough research has implicated it in neurodevelopmental disorders to warrant serious attention.

Early studies showed that subtle effects of neurological damage linked to ultrasound were implicated by an increased incidence in left-handedness in boys (a marker for brain problems when not hereditary) and speech delays.(5) Then in August 2006, Pasko Rakic, chair of Yale School of Medicine's Department of Neurobiology, announced the results of a study in which pregnant mice underwent various durations of ultrasound.(6) The brains of the offspring showed damage consistent with that found in the brains of people with autism. The research, funded by the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, also implicated ultrasound in neurodevelopmental problems in children, such as dyslexia, epilepsy, mental retardation and schizophrenia, and showed that damage to brain cells increased with longer exposures."

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