If your a mom that spanks, would you be willing to do it in public?

Anne - posted on 11/22/2010 ( 139 moms have responded )

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I am not a mom that believes in spanking. However, after a long post on pro/cons of spanking I am just wondering if the mom's that do spank do it in public. If not why do you feel it's ok to do in private?

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[deleted account]

Spanking is punishment.....CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, NOT discipline..... discipline teaches and guides our children through life. Nothing about spanking teaches anything except fear. Fear of you as the parent and fear of screwing up, which is so detrimental. Children need to learn, explore and make mistakes. Spanking is wrong.....it's wrong at home and it's wrong in public. It's the same damn shit!

Erica - posted on 11/27/2010

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Jodi. It's not violence, it's dicipline. And truly I don't know you nor do I care what you think of me. So I guess sticks and stones... hun sticks and stones.

[deleted account]

"The only reason I don't do it in public is because there are people that cannot mind their own business and call it child abuse and report you to CPS or call the police."

People can't mind their own business and they are tempted to call CPS because it IS abuse. These debates SUCK!

Jo - posted on 11/27/2010

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Erica, you can say I'm the one picking a fight, but I'm not the one using violence against a small, defenseless child.

You truly ARE ignorant.

Christi - posted on 11/26/2010

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The only reason I don't do it in public is because there are people that cannot mind their own business and call it child abuse and report you to CPS or call the police. I don't spank my son right now because he is Autistic and does not understand the difference between right and wrong, but you can bet your butt I will be spanking him if the day comes and he understands and still disobeys. In public, I would only spank if he were doing something that could cost him his life or put him in danger.

Erica - posted on 11/26/2010

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Just as some one else said earlier why is it we don't want our children to have fear of us? Weren't we afraid? Afraid to get in trouble or to disapoint? Some fear is healthy, it seperates us from our children letting them know that we are to be respected and listened to. Now for you crazy women out there who are going to blow this up and make me sound like I ment they are suppose to shake in their boots at the sight of us don't. You know what I mean so leave t at that.

Jodi - besides the fact that it's very obvious that you are looking for a fight I'm going to say this. Yes, she is my child and I WILL raise her the way I see fit. You can tell me what 5 people out there who probably don't have children think that's fine. You follow blindly to what they want you to do and think. Me, I'm the EXPERT on my child, I know what makes her tick and what will work and what won't. Call me ignorant, I truly don't care.

Ali - posted on 11/26/2010

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well as i said earlier children learn by impression which is why the adults that spank today where most likey spanked as a child and they got the impression off their parents! And spanking a child when they are in danger i still don't agree with. I NEVER shout at my daughter i simply tell her no as raising my voice wouldn't get me anywhere and only scare her. so i do shout at her when she might hurt herself and that how MY daughter learns she shouldn't do it again. this is my method and it works for me.

Sarah - posted on 11/26/2010

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I would love to see this bs proof that spanking doesn't discourage bad behavior. Every child is defferent so yes in many cases it doesn't work but in many cases it most certainly does and I am living proof. My mom would pop me on the rear from time to time for misbehaving and it sure as hell made me not want to do it again. I use time outs, warnings and spankings all without guilt. If you knew my children you would see that they are happy well adjusted and very well behaved for the most part. I do not feel fear or shame in punishing my child in public the same as I do in private. Stick to the standards you set no matter where you are and your children will always know how to behave and what to expect. There is a big difference between spanking and beating...spanking is perfectly fine. Discipline your kids however works best for you and the child. Don't let nosy, judgmental people make you second guess yourself.

Kendra - posted on 11/26/2010

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I do not spank my daughter in public places for several reasons, first is because she may need disaplined but does not need to be embarrassed and I think it would be hard for her to understand because other people are around her to distract from understanding why, and that would defeat the whole purpose. Second is I believe how I disipline my child is my business alone as long as it is not abuse. I think things have blown out of control with the spanking, becuase there are some parents out there that used it as an excuse for child abuse.

Chabine - posted on 11/26/2010

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Well once again my OPINION, it did hurt when my mom spanked me but I am grateful for my spanking.. reason is I am a working , responsible mother of 3 who has no crminal record and respect others. If it wasn't for spanking where would we be. It may be old fashion to those who don't agree with this post. Take a look at the world tday the majority of the younger genearation growing up being violent killing stealing and have no respect for elders. If parents had envoked this principal, then we might of had/ have less crime. If you look on the news most of the media is always about kids doing crime. I blame the parents. Looking back on this month the parents now who are grieving for the loss of their son that was beat down at a party (murdered)... merely the boy was stopping a fight. You get my point ! if we as parents do our part then our kids can grow up to be strong independant and respectable . Call me old fashion but I prefer my style. From young as toddler we can discipline our kids.. It will help a whole lot when he/she is ready for kindergarten and grade school. I have no regrets spanking or should I say CORRECTING my kids. At least my kids won't end up on America most wanted or kids boot camp (*rolling my eyes back* ) In the bible there is a TRUE saying : DON"T SPARE THE ROD and SPOIL THE CHILD !!! I'm not saying I'm perfect but I am envoking morals and values for me and my kids.

Lisa - posted on 11/26/2010

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Hi I'm a Catholic mum and first of all, I think it's ok to spank your kid in public if they're in danger of hurting themselves in a big way. You may also opt to catch them by the shoulders and shake them a little while looking hard into their faces without saying a word. Anything that they do not expect from you that will JOLT them out of their out-of-control mode. Sometimes they get into this adrenaline frenzy where they're running about and they forget their manners and everything you've told them so we need to remind them that they're getting out of hand. Of course, do this if Time Out doesn't work. My kid is very strong willed and he's only 21 months old. The Terrible 2's began at 14 months for him so I've experimented with both gentle explain-it-away and the hit-the-table methods. I also use Time Out but these days, Aidan sings or talks to himself there so I guess he's learnt to adapt to that haha. I need a combination because some things I can wait for him to learn (like not throwing things on the floor), but others I want him to know is unacceptable from the get go (hitting me, being defiant at mealtimes and chucking bowls). When he's at the height of defiance and on a roll, I definitely hit the table loudly with my hand to jolt him out of his behaviour. I believe there'll be a day when that hand goes to his bottom but hey, until kids learnt to recognise boundaries, they need to know their limits. They need to obey the person who sets the limits if the limits are for their own good. If they know who is Boss, then they learn to know when Mommy is firm, when she's angry and when she's had it. Just make sure that when you spank it's not because you're at your wits end. You still need to be in control of your feelings so no excessive force is used. And yeah, I make sure my son knows that the punishment is out of love by repeating it all the time - he won't get it yet but he'll learn to grasp the concept with enough repetition and action. Outside of discipline mode, I also make sure he gets loads of cuddles, kisses and Mommy-and-Aidan time so he learns to separate between "serious" and "fun" times with Mommy. Hope this helps.

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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Not hitting a child will always be sound logic - 500 years ago, today, 500 years from now.

I wasn't directing my comments solely at you Meghan. I asked you some specific questions earlier and you answered and I thanked you for clarification.

I'm not passing any judgment on YOU. I am saying that spanking is unnecessary, especially when there are endless amounts of other methods that can be utilized that are psychologically, emotionally, and phsyically 100% more positive and 100% more beneficial to every child.

I don't think you're a bad mom for spanking. I don't think you're a bad person for having the views you have. I don't think you're stupid or juvenile or immature - you haven't said (from my immediate knowledge) anything along the lines of "it's my kid so I'll do whatever I want to them."

I do think that we all have the choice to be better, and choosing to continue to spank -- when you have the resources, as well as the ability, right in front of you -- instead of educating yourself to be better than that is a bad choice. I do think it is wrong to choose to ignore relevant information that you have available to you, for a reason that is as pitiful as "it's my kid, I'll do whatever I want to do to them."

But again, that's just my stance on this issue.

Meghan - posted on 11/25/2010

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did you not read what I said in an earlier post? I DON'T spank my daughter. it doesn't work with her and frankly she doesn't need it. I said I do what works with each individual child. I'm not saying NOT spanking is wrong, but passing judgments on me just because I do spank when I feel its necessary? That's what I would call juvenile. I'm not asking you to understand my logic, and I'm not trying to understand yours.
and for the record, 20 years ago it was recommended to have infants sleep on their sides, 10 years ago the "experts" changed their minds and said lay them on their stomachs, NOW the so called experts say MAKE SURE they sleep on their back...things change based on any number of factors and "expert opinion" is forever being revamped

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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Why would you NOT be interested in learning or trying other methods that could very well be better, when all it could do is benefit your child...?

I'll never understand the logic behind spanking, but even more so, I will never understand the logic behind CHOOSING spanking over methods that are more positive and more recommended by child mind/body/psychological health 'experts'.

Opinion or otherwise, choosing to spank just because - as many have said - "It's my child I'll do what I want with them" is very juvenile and unnerving.

Meghan - posted on 11/25/2010

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You are entitled to your opinion whether I agree with you or not. And, no offense, but I'm honestly not interested in what you call better ways of teaching; again that is an opinion. Each one of my kids has their own form of learning and therefore we teach each of them differently. What works for one child will not always work for another. You do what you feel is right and just with yours and I'll do what I feel is right with mine.

Olivia - posted on 11/25/2010

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I was spanked as a child, and I plan on spanking my child once he is old enough.

I have never felt like I was being abused. Some people argue that the child gets confused since the parent is supposed to have a "loving hand" not a "hand that gives them pain". I was NEVER confused or fearful of my parents. It actually helped me read people better. I could TELL when my behavior was going over the line, just by my parents' reactions.

In short, YOU are the parent and you do what you want. And in answer to the original question, yes I will be spanking in public.

Jodi, what do you do when your child acts up in public, throws a temper tantrum, etc?

Jodi - posted on 11/25/2010

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Heather, this is a tad off topic, but it still deals with public discipline.

"...but its a completely different thing when they are just flat out throwing a temper tantrum while other people are trying to enjoy themselves and the parents are doing absolutely nothing about it because they feel that ignoring the behavior is the best resolution," I am a firm believer in ignoring temper tantrums, both at home and out and about. It took about a week for my daughter to catch on and she hasn't thrown a fit since, at home or in public. My find myself unable to enjoy my time in public by people who swear, smoke, dress inappropriately, spit etc etc. Ignoring the temper tantrums worked wonderfully for us in a very short amount of time and I don't feel bad for it, even if it disrupted someone's grocery shopping or whatever. Ignoring the problem is doing something about it, and quite effectively from everyone that I've known who has use this method (which, btw, is reccomended by many child "experts" and "professionals")



*edit to add: I'm really not trying to start an argument, just trying to shed some insight on the effectiveness of ignoring a temper tantrum.

Ashley - posted on 11/25/2010

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i put my son on time out in public if we are walkin down the street and he is not listening ill tell him to pick a conner and stand in it. i dont care if people stare or not you cant let your kids get away with thing no matter where you are.

Ali - posted on 11/25/2010

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In england it's not right to spank a child don't know what it's like in the states! children learn by impression.

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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I was replying to posts other than just the OP. I'm sorry that you've heard enough of spanking is wrong but it's my view and I'm not going to stop saying it just because you or anyone for that matter doesn't want to hear it.

Stifler's - posted on 11/25/2010

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I wasn't being rude, I've just heard enough of the "spanking is wrong blah blah blah" when the OP isn't even asking whether you think spanking is wrong or not.

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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Thank you for pointing that out to me, I would have been lost without your insight, Emma.

It kind of happens when a debate, or conversation, evolves. I stated my original response and I asked some questions and responded to what some other people said.

From what I've come to know over the past 2 years of being on this site, that generally happens when you go back and forth and allow the conversation to transpire into more... I apologize for asking questions and responding accordingly! I'll keep that in mind next time and only discuss EXACTLY what the OP posted. *rolls eyes*

Kymberly - posted on 11/25/2010

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Emma if you don't like what Jodi is saying then stop reading this post. Everything she is saying is logical and not off topic. It's her opinion and she's entitled to it. There is NO NEED for you to be rude to ANYONE on it. It's simple....If you DON'T like it then DON'T read it!

Stifler's - posted on 11/25/2010

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Jodi... this isn't a debate on spanking vs. not spanking. It's a debate about spanking in public not whether you think spanking is wrong. We get it... you don't spank.

Chabine - posted on 11/25/2010

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In my opinion I would definately spank my kids in public and private. After taking parenting classes I found out that you should not spank, but merely first talk and resolve the issue. Might I add that I indeed did this, only resulting for me to talk more by feedback from his/her behavior. In closing I will state it's better to don't spare the rod cause the child will get spolied. A true saying.

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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It isn't illegal to spank in Canada, but there are restrictions - parents are allowed to use force in very specific situations; such as a small smack to the hand to stop a child who is about to do something dangerous or harmful.



As of 2004, it is illegal in Canada to (1) spank a child under age 24 months, (2) spank a child age 12 or older, (3) spank with any kind of implement such as a belt, switch or paddle - regardless of the age of the child, (4) spank children you are not the parent of, and (5) spank "bare bottom", regardless of the age of the child.



You're not allowed to strike a child willy nilly. If the wrong person sees you spank your child, you could have that child removed from your home or you could be charged for abusing your child (regardless of what you think you were doing).



Beyond the issue's I have with the method itself, I don't understand why anyone would want to put themselves or their family in a position to be torn apart over something so easily avoidable.

[deleted account]

Regardless of whether I spank or not.....I think all discipline should be as private as possible. Obviously that is easy if you are at home, but if you are in public...no matter your method...I think the first order of business is to remove the child to a more private location. It's easier to talk to them if there are less distractions, and neither of you would feel the pressure of eyes upon you. We always try other methods first. Personally, in our home spanking is for very extreme, absolute defiant behaviour......they don't get a spanking because I may have had to ask them more than once, they didn't pick up their toys, they hit their sibling, or because they almost ran out into the street. And they are very well aware of what would result in a spanking.....so actually, it has rarely occurred. If such behaviour occurred out in public, straight away home would we go. Not because I am embarrassed, or because I think it is wrong, (besides, it's not illegal in Canada, so why would I care?) but because it is simply between me and my child. Others do not need to bear witness. I think some moms (and dads) do struggle with their childrens' behaviour out in public because they do spank at home....but don't want to do it in public for fear of being judged. Well, then it is not an effective punishment because believe me.....your child knows that you will not do it in public and that gives them all the power over you. Because what are you going to do if you can't do the old standby of a whack on the bum?? So even though I don't judge anyone who spanks, I definitely urge people to not have it as your "go to" form of discipline if you are worried what people think. It's just not workable....and you need something that works consistently. Otherwise, they will figure out when and where they can get the upperhand!

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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My son doesn't get away with bad behavior anywhere, at home or in public. He has boundaries, he has rules and he is taught the proper way to act when he misbehaves. He's only 2, so we have many years of patience ahead of us.



My son doesn't control me and I don't control him. I teach him, guide him and I learn just as much from him as he does from me.



He is only 2 and his judgment, knowledge of behavior and control over his actions is incredible. I have never had to raise my hand to him in order to teach him those things. He tests them, ohhhhhhh boy does he test his boundaries and the rules - but he's 2. He is SUPPOSED to test those limits.



I do NOT and will NOT ever take that behavior as an excuse to control him, to conform him, to bend him or break him down into behaving the way I want him too.



I take that behavior as an opportunity to teach him good judgment and the ability to make decisions and control his actions in an appropriate manner.



I don't think there is ever any behavior or action that warrants striking a child. There is ALWAYS a better way to teach your child how to behavior appropriately.



Again, Meghan, I will emphasize, this is how I parent. This is my frame of mind when it comes to this topic. I don't condone spanking. I think it's unnecessary and I think there are many more positive effective methods that should be utilized and practiced.



It's not up to me to tell a parent not to spank but I can tell parents that do spank that there are other better ways to teach your child. I just plain and simple, don't agree with spanking and these are all the reasons why. I don't expect you or anyone to agree with me or stop spanking - I am just explaining my stance on this issue.

Meghan - posted on 11/25/2010

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and it's not illegal to strike your pet. It's illegal to abuse your pet, just like it is with your children. there is a fine line. the important thing to remember is to make sure the reprimand fits the behavior.

Meghan - posted on 11/25/2010

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And by letting my kids get away with something because I'm scared to spank, I'm letting them control me, which is a gross misuse of power since they lack the judgment and knowledge and impulse control to use any kind of power wisely. I believe it teaches an important rule. There is always someone more powerful than you, and there are always rules to follow

Jo - posted on 11/25/2010

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I keep reading that spanking isn't abuse, and I can step back enough to know that it's not 'classified' as abuse in the traditional sense of the word (at least in some places). It's not inflicted extreme bodily harm onto another human being.



In my mind and by my definition it is still abuse though. It's an abuse of power. An abuse of authority. An abuse of control.



Children are not our property. They do not belong to us. We're entrusted with their safety, well being and with the responsibility to teach them how to be good, productive, human beings with standards, morals and most of all confidence in their own existance.



By spanking a child - even just once - you're abusing your power, your authority and you're using it as a force to control another human being in a degrading and disrespectful manner. You're their guide, not their owner. It's illegal to strike your pet, it's even more reprehensible to think it's acceptable to strike your child.



Unfortunately, by raising your hand to a child, you are in fact interfering with their rights - therefore you are abusing your power and infringing on their right to feel safe 100% of the time.

Tabby - posted on 11/25/2010

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I'm one of those people who believe that if my child is doing something that is dangerous to herself or others and doesn't listen when I say "no" then yes she is going to get spanked. There is a HUGE difference between a swat on the bottom and abuse. There are all kinds of abuse and not all of them leave a physical mark. For those of you who don't believe in spanking, what else do you do to deter your child from a dangerous situation? Do you make them feel bad for their behavior or embarrass them for it? If so wouldn't that be considered emotional abuse? Getting in your child's face in public can be even more embarrassing than a quick and often painless swat on the butt. There is nothing I hate seeing more than a child running wild in a store where they could be taken, hurt themselves, or hurt someone else and all the mom is doing is standing there saying "Come here or no TV" or "If you don't come back right now I'm putting your treat back". Needing to spank your child doesn't have anything to do with your parenting skills. If your child simply listens to "no", which I highly doubt they do all the time than good for you. But for others who would rather keep their child safe than baby them their whole life than I don't see anything wrong with a swat on the butt. I know from experince that most people who are looking at you in stores probably aren't thinking you're a bad mother for spanking your child and aren't thinking your abusing them either. They are probably thankful that you have the balls to control your child when "no" doesn't work.

Heather - posted on 11/25/2010

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I have, do, and will spank my child if need be in public. Unless absolutely immediate needed circumstances, I always take him to the bathroom or the car to do our personal business. Only because I feel that is my personal business and not anyone elses. Punishment is between my husband, I, and our child, it is not anyone elses business how I discipline unless I am abusing, and I do not. There is always going to be that one person who gives you that judgemental look as if you just broke the law, but honestly, I do not care. My child is very well behaved for 2 1/2, he knows when he is acting up, and now most of the time if my husband or I just say, "Do you want to go to the bathroom?" He will immediately straighten up and say "No!" Spanking is not child abuse, Beating is child abuse, if spanking was abuse it would not be allowed still in most states. Do some research, each state is different with their allowed methods, but most states still agree that spanking should be allowed, as much as some people will tell you it is not! I do not feel spanking should be used as a first resort, unless your child is doing as stated before, like running towards a busy street or a stranger, something needing immediate attention, otherwise, I always give about 3 warnings before we do the bathroom or car run! I cant stand to go into a store or restaraunt and have my outing disrupted because someone can not control their child. Its one thing for a child to cry because they are in trouble, but its a completely different thing when they are just flat out throwing a temper tantrum while other people are trying to enjoy themselves and the parents are doing absolutely nothing about it because they feel that ignoring the behavior is the best resolution, or even parents who just do not care. I have no issues with parents who use other methods, hey if it works for you then great, but my son is stubborn and needs that little extra push at certain times!

Jo - posted on 11/24/2010

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Thank you for clarifying your point :) I understand what you're saying - I don't agree, but I do understand :p

Laura - posted on 11/24/2010

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I use spanking as a last resort regardless of wether i am public or not. Infact it is more affective to use it in public because they then know you mean business and that no matter where you are they can't get away with unacceptable behavour. With my first i was against it but found that she used to use the fact that i had no way of puiching her while in public and would throw the biggest tuntrums and unacceptable behavour imaginable and then poke her tongue out at me. Once i used a smack in public and told her that i would do it again if she didn't stop be naughty she actually stopped.

Meghan - posted on 11/24/2010

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I feel that I'm not disrespecting anything. When you're hitting to the point of disrespecting your child, it's abuse. on the other hand, it is disrespectful to let a child do whatever they want because a parent feels like they'd be abusing their kids to set limits and enforce them. You end up with children that have no respect for rules, responsibilities and tend to be quite manipulative. I'm not saying spanking is the answer but do what works for you and your child to make everyone happy

Meghan - posted on 11/24/2010

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you know, as a teenager, I used to argue the same point for various situations. Not having first amendment rights in schools, corporal punishments between me and my mother... things like that. In my opinion, through what I've learned, certain things take some kind of "earning." I don't know if that's the right word exactly, but that's the only one I can think of at the moment. to be honest, my kids generally don't want personal space considering no matter what they're doing they're always in mine...literally. They are NEVER hurt physically OR emotionally by my tactics. their feelings may get hurt, but things are always explained to them. We talk about WHY it happened. When they are too young for it (I have a one year old too) I just do a little smack on the hand when he's about to hurt himself. It's the only way to get any message across with him b/c he's the most persistent person I've ever met. lol I don't spank my daughter often b/c frankly it's not the way to get anything across to her. My 3 year old has been spanked on very few occasions. two or three times at the most. that's all it took and he knows not to do what "earns" him the reprimand. now all it takes is a warning and we're good to go, so I don't feel that I'm doing any kind of disservice to my kids. They are the most well-behaved children I know, and MANY people have commented on how well they DO behave. For us, what I do works.

Jo - posted on 11/24/2010

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Just out of curiousity, Meghan, you said;



"I will not let my children be disrespectful to myself or others and I will teach them that various choices have various consequences."



Wouldn't you say spanking, hitting, swatting, smacking, (whatever word you want to use for it), would be disrespecting the childs right to personal space, emotional well being and protection of their body? How would spanking them, which is in essence disrespecting them, (in public or private) teach them to be respectful?



I'm not asking to be rude, I'm genuinely wondering how that logic works or maybe I misunderstood what you're saying. I'd love clarification please :)

Meghan - posted on 11/24/2010

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I use it as a last resort when there is no other way to get the message across and it's not a bad thing when USED PROPERLY and not overused and NOT as the only method of discipline. I'd do it in public if I had to, my kids know the rules don't change whether we're at home or not. The problem arises that it's no longer the socially acceptable norm. Most moms who won't do it in public are generally afraid of public opinion or of being labeled an abuser. frankly, today's youth get more and more roudy and out of control with each generation and I think it partly has something to do with the shift in socially acceptable forms of discipline. I will not let my children be disrespectful to myself or others and I will teach them that various choices have various consequences

Stifler's - posted on 11/24/2010

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People that come on and say they are a Christian advocate for capital punishment because it was an eye for an eye in the Old Testament annoy me.

Jo - posted on 11/24/2010

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The Bible was written by man - whether it was coined from the Bible or another literary piece - it is still the word of man. God & Jesus are both teachers of love, compassion, understanding, patience, forgiveness and peace. Any form of spanking, aggression or corpral punishment comes from the mouth of man, not the word of God or teachings of Jesus. Any parent that uses the bible or their faith as an excuse to strike their child in any way is misguided and ignorant of their own beliefs. As well as the true lessons that Jesus tried to teach.





Edited to add: I do not believe in God and I am not religious. I do, however, find it quite amusing that I have a better understanding of what "God" and Jesus represents than the majority of religious people I come in contact with on these forums though :p

Kristi - posted on 11/24/2010

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Jodi, they are great works of literature. You're probably right, they may have taken the verse from the Bible, I don't know the religious backgrounds of either author; and as dumb as I feel saying this, I had no clue that anything like that was in the Bible. I'm not bashing the Bible, I do plan on reading it one day because I consider it a very important literary piece of history, whether it be fiction or non fiction. But yeah, be sure to check those guys out if you like poetry and such. I'll be sure to try and better research the quotes I use from now on lol =).

Stifler's - posted on 11/24/2010

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I'm sick of people using the bible to prove points too. Some people are Christian and follow the bible, get over it. Those who aren't kindly stop bashing the bible and trying to make out that believing in God is wrong because of certain verses you don't agree with.

Kymberly - posted on 11/24/2010

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Is anyone else sick of the whole Bible arguing bull shit?! NO ONE cares so get over it!

Justin Rena - posted on 11/24/2010

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I do spank as well, two times at most, like I said, third time that's for you..I only spank if it is going to hurt him or someone else...i do it in public, why should we hide? it just grabs our children attention when they are not listening...

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