Parent Alienation in Court Cases

Kim - posted on 07/06/2010

I will be keeping you in our prayers. We have been fighting this for years and now know many, many others in a similar situation. We run a DivorceCare class and meet so many with a similar story. A couple things I will tell you and your husband. Stay in there and stay connected any way you can to the kids. Even if they don't want to talk or come around, make sure your husband still calls and sends birthday cards, etc. If he keeps reaching out it will make a difference in the long run. This may get really tiring and very hard to do when his daughter is rejecting him, but he needs to hang in there and do the right thing.
Also, many counties in America are pro-mom. Often it doesn't matter what the mom is like she still has favor in the court. Whatever your husband does, make sure he doesn't loose his temper in court. I have seen far too many good fathers loose all their rights because they lost it in the court room due to lies from the ex.
Good luck to you. I will keep you in prayer.

Penny - posted on 07/06/2010

I seriously just typed up this long thing and it didn't post! So here we go again.. Erin, I hope your SD will be strong enough to stand up to her mom. My SD has already learned that she can't share fun times here, with her mom. She's told us BM gets mad at her and tells her she's "hurt" her feelings by saying certain things about our visits. We are hopeful one day she will be strong enough to stand up for us and her relationship with us.

Erin - posted on 07/06/2010

Well we have my SD here at the end of this month for a long weekend and counseling with her daddy. Lets hope all goes well and she can finally tell her mommy that she feels comfortable with daddy and wants to come down here sometimes to visit. And then mommy won't have any ammo....

Krystel - posted on 07/05/2010

My hubby went through the same thing! Yes its very hurtful to them. But the daughter will relize once she is older that the mom was doing this the whole time & it wasnt the fathers fault. She will come around. Keep all documention! Some times it'll help & sometimes it wont. We keep everything but it didnt help in court. But now my SD is 14 & has opened her eyes that her dad wasnt in the wrong that it was her BM. I know this might not help but we had to let it go after so long of going to court. & now sd over here all the time. Good luck.

Penny - posted on 06/27/2010

Isn't that the truth! How sad! My husband went through a "fathers" program shortly after his daughter was born. It taught fathers about their rights, finding a lawyer, finances, dealing with the ex, etc. He really enjoyed it and learned a lot.

Erin - posted on 06/27/2010

really... they have a "generations" program where mom and dad and child had to go to a three hour class (my sd's was more of a talk about it class) where they could learn important things about dealing with the split and how to treat the other parent etc...my husband got a lot from the class but his ex told him it was a waste of her time and that it didn't apply to her. I guess you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped or change anyone's mind into letting go and forgiving...

Penny - posted on 06/26/2010

That is a great idea, Erin! Or if a parent goes for visitation rights both parents and child should have to do a "healing" type program.

Erin - posted on 06/26/2010

I hope one day parents and children ahve to automatically get into some sort of 'healing' program when a family splits so that everyone can go on to be healthy emotionally and not feel the need to be hateful towards someone they used to love.

Jamie - posted on 06/25/2010

Erin, I can empathize with you. My husband and I are going through a very similar situation. The Bio decided to move to Maui with the kids and we ended up following because my husband cannot stand to see his kids only twice a year. As soon as we were settled here, he filed a motion with the court asking for joint physical custody. We ended up getting a GAL, too. The GAL decided my husband should get joint physical custody and more time with his kids. The judge agreed, but then also let the Bio and the kids move back to AZ. We were very disappointed, but at least she cannot mess with the visitation schedule anymore and she can't make all the decisions without my husband's okay. All in all, it turned out okay, but we are still dealing with the parent alienation. NOT FUN!!! I wish I could just talk to BIO and tell her to get a life. Why would a mother not want her children's father to be a part of their lives? I don't get it. Sorry I'm sharing so late in your situation, but please know that I feel your pain and agree with you. Stay strong! I know it's hard.

Amy - posted on 06/23/2010

Erin..We stepmom need each other..Prayers and Support are always here from you as long as I have the internet and even after if we don't have contact you will still be in my prayers :) thats what we "Moms" have to do Stick together :)

Erin - posted on 06/23/2010

wow, thats exactly what we have....lets hope that our mediator can see this, our lawyer certainly does!!!

~Just wanted to thank you all : ~Penny, Amy, Holly, Anna, Georgetta, Kendal, Debbie, Megan, Sheena, Jenn, Tootie, and Brittanie for all your encouraging words and experiences that you have shared to make me and others feel less alone and almost 'normal' in this crazy life as a step mommy. I appreciate your advice more then you know, and the prayers are literally a God send. (((((((hugs)))))) :)

Penny - posted on 06/22/2010

The mediator used to do everything in her favor also with no proof but her word saying SD feels this way or that way about us. He recently told my hubby he now believes he has a caring father who is trying to build a relationship with his daughter and an "over anxious mother who stresses about every little thing" on his hands with our case.

Erin - posted on 06/22/2010

yea, Im glad you have that in your favor....you're bio must not be as good as an actress as our bio, cause ours convinces the mediator to rule in her favor most of the time, or she's hip to what she can say without proof and get away with it. Plus her new lawyer is a creep and won't budge....they are both crazy, lol, but it will all be over soon. After these visits our lawyer says she will have absolutely NO leg to stand on, since my hub has done EVERYTHING possible to make their daughter feel comfortable, so they will have no choice but to put it in front of a judge...then with all the facts in front of the judge, they will see whats going on and insist on regular visitations just to counteract the alienation.
Im really glad things are starting to go in your favor Penny, its about time, can't wait for your next mediation!!!

Penny - posted on 06/20/2010

The first attorney was cocky and thought she had the GAL and therapist in BM's favor so she didn't have anything to worry about. The judge ruled in our favor so she got axed. Then BM's second attorney was all for her at first but then didn't fight our attorney's motion to the judge to change court order to say we could bring SD to our home for holidays. Judge signed in our favor and BM fired her shortly after that. Now BM's lawyer-less but we'll see how it goes if we mediate, she doesn't agree to some of our terms, and we have to go to court. Like our attorney told us. All these lawyers have to go before these judges. They don't want to make themselves look like an a** for a BM who clearly does not have the child's best interest at heart.

Erin - posted on 06/20/2010

Girl you know I agree. Our Bio is on her second lawyer so...yea the first one wanted to do the right thing, but this one is as much as a chief as she is and is prolly keeping her out of trouble. hey, if its in our favor, thats ok with me :)

Penny - posted on 06/20/2010

I'm glad BM's attorney has scared her a bit. Our BM just fires her attorneys when they advise her to do the right thing. Yes.. somehow we've been making ends meet going back and forth. It's also horrible wear and tear on the car but who's complaining? In the end it HAS to be worth it, right?

Erin - posted on 06/20/2010

yeah, I think it did, I think her lawyer pretty much told her after these visits and talking to a therapist, she might actually be accused of PAS and that she needs to cover her a**. And he talked to her again last night b/c she's at his mom's house, and his mom will get her to call him today...so at least that, but it would be nice if bio supported them talking on fathers day. Good luck!!! And im glad you get more time with her...is it costing u guys to keep bringing her back and forth?

Penny - posted on 06/19/2010

That's awesome, Erin! So glad BM is making an effort instead of being a b**. You think getting accused of PAS scared her?

I know hubby's going to try to call tomorrow but I am doubtful he'll get through. At least we pick SD up on Thursday and she'll be here for another week.

Erin - posted on 06/19/2010

well good news is that it seems that bio is taking the order seriously, shes actually picked up the phone for him and he was able to talk to his daughter twice this week!!! A record!!! And she called back for the second talk. Usually he never gets more then one call a week (or a month). And he was able to have a civilized conversation with his ex about their daughter. So maybe it was a good day for her....I hope for many more good days. We'll see if he gets a call or gets to talk to her on Fathers day...good luck to all of you this day!!!

Erin - posted on 06/13/2010

thank you, and i yours!

Penny - posted on 06/13/2010

I just want to encourage you, Erin. Just continue to love your SD and reassure her that she is safe with both her dad's family and her mom's family. Know that you are fighting an uphill battle but hopefully one day it will be level. Also know that it is not SD's fault she may be hesitant towards her dad, you, siblings. It's because of what she's being taught. I always have to remind myself of that when I get annoyed with SD's behavior. She will start tearing up and say how she misses her mom. Why is she crying for her mom? Doesn't she know and realize how much we miss her between visits?! Of course not, she's just a kid. SD will probably have issues too coming from being an only child and having to share her dad and your time with other siblings. We just had SD for a week in our home but that was an issue we had to deal with. When SD wanted our attention, she wanted us to drop everything and attend to her. She learned quick about sharing time and toys. I pray for your family too. I hope it gets better!

Erin - posted on 06/13/2010

the whole thing is just frustrating. A part of me is worried that things will never be "normal" even when we get summers ect. Im afraid that with her mother against him and brain washing their daughter, and the fact that for most of her childhood he has been a monthly baby-sitter or playmate and never had the chance to be a real father to her...go to school functions, tuck her into bed every night, take care of her when she's sick, be there for her when shes scared.... he missed most of that. He had her in infancy (which she doesn't remember and still says "mommy must of had it hard taking care of me all by herself when I was a baby" which isn't true) and has been basically in and out of her life for her childhood from her perspective. Meanwhile all of the consistent people in her life dislike him, don't trust him and bad mouth him when ever possible. She's probably hurt and jealous that he lives with his other two kids and they have both parents and he doesn't live near her. She might come down here and the jealousy and bitterness destroy her just like it did her mother. Is it too late? can she still be part of this family and realize how much we love her and want her here? I pray with my whole heart that she can, and with therapy and consistent time spent together that she will see how much we love her.

Penny - posted on 06/12/2010

Erin, I knew it was bad, but didn't realize. Good luck with everything! PM me if you ever want to chat more.

Holly - posted on 06/12/2010

Those demands aren't unreasonable at all Erin! I hope it all goes well for you guys! :)

Erin - posted on 06/12/2010

Next step is court, I guess our lawyer said to make sure hubby wouldn't loose anything this last step of getting her down here for a few visits being 'supervised' by her grandmother to make sure she was 'comfortable' will help his case. Also the fact that he was able to comply to everything they wanted every time he went to mediation shows that all he cares about is his daughters well being. Also going to therapy sessions with her shows his concern for her happiness and mental health. All the mother can show is that she has tried to alienate the daughter from him. I also hope to have a few statements by the therapist showing that she believes alienation has been a factor in their relationship (if that's the case) and the basis for SD being "uncomfortable" around him. Which will just encourage the judge to let her spend even more time with her father to fix that problem. We will also have his mother's statement (since she is the one 'supervising' the visits) letting them know how her visits with us went and how well she enjoyed our home and being with her father. All of the hoops he has jumped through will only support his case, and the time and effort he has put into his child will be on his side. The next 'mediation' is in September...but then court is supposed to follow. He still wants what he wants and should get it. He isn't asking for that much. He was 6 consecutive weeks in the summer to include fathers day and the 4th of July. Every spring break. Every other thanksgiving holiday. Every other Christmas to flip with every other new years during the winter break. And maybe one or two weekends up there a year in between holiday moths. He wants report cards to be mailed to him and weekly phone calls to be actually answered and he wants bio to email him important information every month. But none of that is going to happen yet.... He barely gets his phone calls. And we know how well she reacts when he mails his daughter things....ug what a mess.

Penny - posted on 06/12/2010

I agree with the other ladies, Erin. Stop mediating and go to the judge! The mediators are getting paid to do nothing but listen. They can't force BM to act right.

Anna - posted on 06/12/2010

yes the judge did see through the shit!
2 incidents happened between my SD (8 at the time) and her step brother (13 at the time).
she told me, we tried to rectify the situation with all parties concerned but it happened again and my SD was kicked out of her BMs house. she stayed with us, refused to go home so it went to court.
BM was represented but hubby represented himself.
BM "forgot" to tell her solicitor about the 2 incidents and why she was accusing hubby of kidnap and the judge ordered an investigation into the incidents.
social services got involved and the woman made her report to the court like she was on crack! she had no definate answer and BM was still spouting lies that we could dispove. the judge got annoyed and gave the social worker a bit longer to sort her shit out. the judge sympathised with hubby because BM kept withholding important info about members of her household from her solicitor and the judge, but all the lies got too much for our family unit that we pulled out of court proceedings saying that if SD didnt want to see us (BM turned her against us) that we wouldnt force her and see her when shes older.

hang in there and log everything. if it wasnt for me logging times and dates of incidents we wouldnt have been able to disprove BMs lies.
good luck though love, x

Amy - posted on 06/11/2010

Erin..My SD did about the same thing. We had an account set up for SD on Myspace so that BM (and her family) could see how SD was doing daily since she came to live with us well if we posted a status..SD would get harrassed about it the next weekend she saw her mom even if it was just "I had a good day at school today 100 on Spelling test" if she added a photo BM would ask SD tons of questions about it "where was that taken, who was there" stuff like that SD who is 8 mind you came to BF and Myself and said "Can we just not add how im doing anymore" so we stopped if she decided to post anything we would let her she makes all those choices there mostly all she does now is post the smileys for her status. I honestly think sometime BM don't realize they are hurting the kids cause all they want to do is get back at the other parent(s) involved :)

Penny - posted on 06/11/2010

That is so sad! And frustrating! You're damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Erin - posted on 06/09/2010

yea Penny, every time we mailed her pictures she would get more and more uncomfortable about talking about taking pictures. I'd ask if she got them and she'd get all quiet and say yea and that was it. She used to gush about the pictures we sent her. But I guess our Bio does the same...we got family pictures in February, She was really nervous but ended up getting into them and smiling and having fun. Thats when she told me she would like to have some of the pictures but she couldn't "because mom would get really mad". that's when I knew I could only hand pictures to her from now on...and Im even worried about sending her cards and things becasue shes getting a hard time from mom about those things too.

Kendel - posted on 06/09/2010

My husband and I have been going through a situation like this, we recently went to court! The judge can see through her, it is there job! All you two can do is keep track of EVERYTHING! Get a notebook and keep it as a "log book" Anytime he calls write it down, wether the ex anwsers or not, write down when he tries to visit, anytime there is any communication between the ex. If there are emails or text messages, print them out and put them in a folder or binder. Then take everything to court with you. Also if mediation has worked and they go in front of a judge, they will appoint a garudian at alitum(sp), basically a lawyer for the child, who will evaluate the situation. Goodluck to you and your man! I know how stressful it can be!!

Penny - posted on 06/08/2010

I know the feeling! We agreed to send SD pics through BM's email between visits and all that did was give BM ammo to grill SD and email hubby negative emails about his parenting. I noticed too that after these emails SD wouldn't want to take pics anymore or if she did she would do a fake smile and not look at the camera. Make sure you guys schedule for family pics too when she's here!

Erin - posted on 06/08/2010

We have a photo album of pictures but just lately she suddenly "doesn't like getting her picture taken" this comes from a movie star Diva. Another bit of moms super influence. But I still capture her happy moments and plan or resurrecting these photo's when Bio insists that his daughter "still isn't comfortable with him". Planning on taking many a happy pic with him and Madeline when they come for visits.

Penny - posted on 06/07/2010

Sorry for the long drawn out process. I hate it that BMs have all the power. But yay for baby steps! As my hubby always says when we go through hoop after frustrating hoop. Try to look for the good in a sticky situation. Good luck and we'll be praying she has a wonderful time with you guys the next couple months. Also.. do you guys take pics and video footage? Can you show those to the mediator to show what a great time she has with you guys?

Erin - posted on 06/07/2010

Thank you Penny and Holly, some good news and some frustrating. First thing my husbands ex says to him the second they are face to face is "do you know how much you are hurting M by doing this? She wants nothing to do with you and never wants to come to your house". My husband just said this was a conversation for the lawyers not them and walked away. his ex tried to say that my SD was "scared to death of her father and didn't want to be alone with him" which is the craziest thing you have ever heard if you have ever seen the two of them together. So they wouldn't grant him all the time he wanted with her down here....but we did get one long weekend next month down here with his mother "supervising" the visit as well as another extended weekend the following month with his mother supervising. Then they have to go BACK to mediation again. She also agreed to let my SD and DH attend therapy sessions together which I was really surprised about but happy, its a good first step to letting her come down all the times we want her too and it lets her get used to our home comfortably with another trusted adult there from "her world" to help the two blend. The therapy will be great, it will be a safe place they can talk about their feelings. And then his ex will have NO legs to stand on in September becasue hes jumped through every hoop and made every effort to comply to his ex's and his daughters needs. Its frustrating becasue its all about power with his ex, but its good because it allows our daughter to come into our world, join our family a little bit more. :)

Holly - posted on 06/06/2010

I love that phrase you sued too Erin! It shows that you are truly always thinking of your sd first and foremost! :)

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your hubby tonight, tomorrow, and as long as this foolishness lasts!

Penny - posted on 06/06/2010

I love how you said "in SD's favor." Isn't that the truth? Sometimes parents are so involved in their own issues, they forget to make it about the CHILD! Not their own selfish needs and wants!! Prayers tomorrow!!

Erin - posted on 06/06/2010

She was herself up until saturday night, then she started to withdraw again. Friday night they were up till midnight, singing and dancing, but last night she said she was too tired to play any games and fell asleep, then today she was moping all day and didn't want anything to do with her dad. She even made a card for her mom 'for everything she does for me...' it felt like a poke in the ribs to my DH. Of course this always happened the day she went back to mom (not always but since the majority of the court drama) It hurts just as bad though to my DH. Everyone tells him why (Bio) and not to take it personally but he does and he gets very depressed about it. She did hug him goodbye but she pushed him aside after and ran to his younger brother and gave him a big hug. He goes to court tomorrow and hopefully someone out there will realize that there is something wrong with this picture and know how to fix it. My husband isn't a perfect person, nor a perfect father. But there isn't one thing he wouldn't do for his children and his family. He believes in honor and self discipline and respect. He loves to play and cherish his children and be there for them no matter what. he has proved that these past five years. She still hates him, and has passed some of that hate onto her daughter which is a shame because she is missing out on a really great guy and someone who is more like her then anyone. It kills me...and more so my husband.
Tomorrow is the day they are supposed to mediate. Lets hope all turns out in my SD's favor and she is able to become more involved in our family.

Penny - posted on 06/05/2010

It is a huge relief!! We can enjoy each other, finally! I pray the same for you guys! And that the GAL is a good one who sees the truth!

Erin - posted on 06/05/2010

The GAL isn't assigned yet, when he goes for mediation monday he's requesting one. Glad to hear your girl is having fun with you!! Its such a relief isn't it?!

Penny - posted on 06/05/2010

So good to hear things are going well, Erin! So is the GAL with them for this visit? We actually have SD with us this week in our home. It's going so great! She's really opening up and enjoying herself. She's had a couple moments of missing her mom but a little reassurance and she's been fine. I hope things go well tomorrow! Keeping you guys in our prayers!

Georgetta - posted on 06/05/2010

I am glad all is well. Keep documenting and all your efforts will pay off. Some ppl are so selfish they don't care or refuse to see what their actions are doing to their children. I will be praying for success for you guys on Monday.

Erin - posted on 06/05/2010

Good news so far. My husband is up for his visitation (court is on monday) and he is having an amazing time with his daughter! She is being her old self again! He's so happy, he has needed her back so badly, especially right before this court date. They are just like before, happy together, goofing around and loving. he's not sure what happened...neither am I, but Im not jinxing anything. Im just loving that my SD is back for the moment, that it isn't hopeless, and that no mater what they are having this time toenjoy each others company. :) wish him luck for the rest of the visit and for his mediation with his ex on monday!!!! PLEASE LET THINGS GO WELL!!!!!

Erin - posted on 06/03/2010

Thank you, we are requesting she have a GAL this visit and we are requesting that the weekly phone calls are scheduled and that we also get monthly emails to let us know how she is doing. we still mail her cards for holidays and my daughter writes her letters and my husband STILL calls and doesn't get an answer... but his conciliation is next monday at 8:00 am and Im praying she doesn't cause a lot of drama.

Georgetta - posted on 06/03/2010

It is not necessarily a judge, wut u need 2 have or ask for is a guardian ad litem. have them investigate. they will meet with you, BM, and SD (alone). They are pretty well trained to pick up on alientation. It helped with our case the first time around. When BM found out my now hubby n I were actually gettin married she stopped all forms of communication with my SS. We are goin back now, being accused of alientation, but the GAL says it is not true because we provided her with emails, IM records, and facebook communications to prove that we have tried to be involved/keep her involved etc. So be sure u guys document and keep copies of every attempt to communicate with your SD. Also send her letters and cards to check on her when u guys don't c her. All this helps ur case in the long run, but it also makes ur SD know that u all really love and care for her.

Penny - posted on 05/17/2010

Erin, why are we going through such similar "sucky" lives without our SDs? I just hate BM drama and how they get the kids involved. I can't understand how you could be so hateful as to harm your own child! I was on another forum and was just appalled at how these mothers were advising this pregnant lady to not tell the dad the kid was his, to not put him on the birth certificate, to make him PAY for a paternity test, PAY for an attorney, PAY for supervised visits, PAY for visitation, and PAY child support if he wanted to be involved with his kid! Also that kids don't need fathers all they need is love. It was making me so sad. My hubby kept saying "Is BM writing that?" --Sorry just dealing with some BM drama and venting on here. Thanks for listening!

Erin - posted on 05/14/2010

Thank you very much. I really think, and I might just ahve wishful thinking, that with time and work this family, bio mom included, can work itself out. They have court/mediation next month and my husband has tried being the 'bigger person' calling bio on mothers day and trying to be as respectful to her feelings as possible even when she is being evil. His daughter treats him poorly but that might be solved by them actually getting to know each other better when she comes to visit us in our state and with the therapy that he's planning on getting them into so they can reconnect and work out all issues his daughter may have with him. As far as his ex....I just don't know. She will never be supportive of their relationship, she will always want my SD to 'side' with her...but that is a part of having parents that had a rough divorce. Im just hoping my SD can grow to love her father despite what her mother says. Some day she will look back and see how screwed up things were. And no matter what we will love her and try to be in her life, even if she "hates us".

Debbie - posted on 05/13/2010

Erin, if your hubby does finally get into court and is heard I would encourage him to go for custody. We didnt and we have lost one child and the other isnt as close as she used to be. All due to PAS. Here in Australia, I dont think they even recognise it, but it was too late for us as we didnt even know there was such a thing. These girls are now 21 and 18, we have not done the things they have hated us for but we cant even defend ourselves as it is putting the mother down, by basically calling her a liar. It's a miserable feeling knowing how much you love them and them thinking that you dont want to give them the time of day, I know they know deep in them that this is not the case, but they need to accept that thier mother has lied to them before they can know the truth. Anyway my point is they are now two very messed up girls and I dont wish this on anyone. I really wish we had taken them when we had the chance.



Good luck and all the best for you and your family

Erin - posted on 05/06/2010

I could only hope for such a miracle Penny, if she truly wanted to work things out with my Hub so they can co parent successfully, that would be the worlds biggest blessing. But Im afraid that's too much to hope for. I doubt she will ever forgive him for what she believes he has done to 'ruin' her life when they were married that short year. She still blames the fact that she's smoking on "all the stress he puts me through". I hope that your right and the judge will truely see how much my DH has sacrificed to be in his daughters life and to show her his love and devotion. I hope Bio sees it too, has some sort of emotional breakthrough and can move on and be a mature adult. Really if she thinks hes such a jerk, why not let their daughter see for herself! Don't put thoughts in her head because she knows maybe her daughter will truly love him. sigh...thanks for all the prayers ladies, its soooo appriciated

Megan - posted on 05/05/2010

So sorry to hear this Erin. I hope things turn around for you, but I'm really sorry that your family has to suffer in the meantime.