So ANGRY

Mandie - posted on 04/26/2010

Yep I hear you Holly- mine did a similar thing at the Divorce hearing- she showed up 6 months preg to another guy- to whom she was, at the time, engaged and was wearing his ring in court as well- with this guy's mother and tried to fight the Divorce! And when the Judge pointed all this out logically to her she LOST the plot entirely! DH had carried a tape b/c of her antics outside court in the past and you can hear her screaming like a banshee while her fiancee's mother tries to calm her and get her to leave. She had to be forcibly removed by security and you can hear her screaming "Get your @#$%ing hands off me!!"



You'd think she'd learn her lesson right? WRONG!! She did the same thing in Family Court some months later when she saw me and again had to be forcibly removed- but in the meantime, rang the fiancee and was going on and on in a BOOMING voice about how DH needs to "grow the @#$% up!!" and was a "30 yr old man, he needs to stop acting like a child!!" All I could think was "Hmmmm, might that be the pot calling the kettle black??'

HI-LARIOUS!

Anna - posted on 04/26/2010

holly thats hilarious! i wish mine would do that in front of another adult instead of my SD!

Penny - posted on 04/25/2010

Holly, you made my day! That's hilarious! But these women seriously are in their own worlds. They think it's their world and their rules and their kid while our husbands are paychecks and not worthy of their kids. I am so thankful for our judge who was not pulled under by her "victim" act.

Erin - posted on 04/25/2010

OMG I know its mean to say it, but that would just make my day! Even though I would love for her to get a reality check, shes do far gone in her determination that my hubbys the enemy she would just believe the judge was in on it.

Holly - posted on 04/25/2010

hee hee... or throw a temper tantrum in the courtroom (and I mean a REAL tantrum - throwing herself on the floor and beating her arms and legs against the floor like a 2 year-old) like my daughter's bm did once!

Penny - posted on 04/25/2010

Yes and hopefully she'll be caught in all her lies, like our BM was.

Erin - posted on 04/25/2010

i will...Bio is all raring for a fight...should be interesting when she blows up in front of a judge...

Penny - posted on 04/24/2010

Yes keeping you guys in our prayers! Let us know as soon as you hear anything!

Holly - posted on 04/24/2010

yay Erin! You're on my calendar hun!

Erin - posted on 04/24/2010

wow you guys are good!!!! Good ideas!!!!


We ahve a court date finally!! May 5th!! Pray for us!!!!!!!!!

Holly - posted on 04/22/2010

When our daughter is visiting her bm I send things certified mail. That way if the BM signs for it I get a receipt, so if our daughter does not receive what we sent while she was out there we have proof the bm got it and didn't give it to our daughter. It also works the other way around, so if the bm refuses the letter it's signed and dated by the mail carrier as refused and we can add it to the documentation folder (after opening it and giving our daughter what was inside when she gets home).

Erin - posted on 04/22/2010

we just mail them, because we hope the constant influence of our caring for her will go against SOMETHING her mother says about us...and we always ask her about the things we mail, and her mom knows it. Hopefully something is worked out over this parent Alienation. Im hoping we get a court date next week. that way we can plan and start the praying...

Chrissy - posted on 04/20/2010

Keep everything. Whenever you buy her gifts, keep them and cards fill them out and keep them. Then when you do see her, show them to her, and explain that you had them there waiting for her, because you couldnt give them to her on her special occasion. Best not to give her those things to take home, because by the sound of that mum, she would probably take them away from her the minute she got back home. But tell her those things will always be there for her, whenever she comes back. And remind her that no matter what happens, her dad will always love her and be there for her. One day, she will realise what her mother is really like, and she will resent that about her, if she doesnt resent her altogether. I commend your husband for being so strong about it, and trying so hard to work things out. He sounds like a great father. And well done to you also Erin for sticking it out and being so supportive. He needs a good wife like you to be there for him. Court seems to be the answer in this situation. Hope it all works out for you guys, and that special little girl. All the best

Anna - posted on 04/20/2010

also keep a copy of everything that is sent. its time consuming but it works and its caught BM and her solicitor out quite a few times. and we're representing ourselves!! ha ha ha!

Anna - posted on 04/20/2010

thankyou holly, i lived in my village for 8yrs and after 7mths of her living 2mins down the road i had to move far away. nothing like being driven out of your own home and away from the support network of your family!

thankyou mandie.

penny, i suggested councelling for my SD because i was the only one she would confide in and i didnt know how to handle what she was telling me. her mum refused and took her to a homeopathist and he prescribed her herbal medication. you cant just drug a child and hope for the best, youre absolutely right, a six year old shouldnt have to carry that sort of baggage. good luck with it all, x

Penny - posted on 04/19/2010

Glad to hear parent alienation is acknowledged. Hope you have a good judge who sees the truth of the whole matter. So sick of BM wanting to be in total control of our parenting time. So annoying.

Erin - posted on 04/17/2010

wow im dyslexic..lol

Erin - posted on 04/17/2010

they should be getting a court date to us and we ahve taken notes of the breaks in the order by bio mom and outline some things that he wants. We jsut ahve to see what they give him. our lawyer is pretty sharp and knows how to work the system in my hubby's favor. His ex has NO legs to stand on and my Hub has done everything by the book. She doesn't realize how screwed up her behavior has been and how poorly Penn. courts look at parent alienation. And she has all the classic signs of an obsessive alienator. Thank you girls...hopefully I will have good news to post .

Mandie - posted on 04/15/2010

Best of luck girl, let us know how it all goes. I'm sure you guys wont miss anything but what we used to do is each of us proof-read it 3 times before we filed it.

Penny - posted on 04/15/2010

Erin, your family is in our thoughts and prayers! Keep fighting for your little girl. As I've told you before, make sure everything in your order is VERY detailed down to the exact amount of days you want her over the holidays and summer so BM can't fight it and say "the court order says you get her New Years so you have to pick her up the night before and bring her back the morning after New Year's." As our BM tried to do to us just this year (remembering too that we live 6 hours away from pick up/drop off location).

Erin - posted on 04/15/2010

lol I love it Mandie and Penny!

ON a more hopeful/scarey note, we got the papers my hubby needs to sign to put the movemnt for custody modification in the mail today that he needs to mail back to his lawyer. Its kinda scary because there are so many things that need outlining we are afraid we are going to miss something. Hopefully things do go to court so every detail can be hammered out and Bio can have her 'day in court' so that she can realize how petty her behavior has been. i just wish a judge could remind her of reality and knock her down a peg or two. Think about it, our husbands fight to have a major part in their children's lives, support them emotionally (when they can) and financially, and these women want to condemn them. But find any old dead beat dad who happens to pop in and out of their child's life and its fine with those mothers.

Mandie - posted on 04/14/2010

And you put the best one 1st so kudos to you girl :) LOL!

Mandie - posted on 04/14/2010

Wow! You did well! Most people outside of Oz have no idea at all! To be fair our 7th state is actually only our National capital- ACT (Australian Captial Territory- or the city of Canberra)

Penny - posted on 04/14/2010

Sorry Mandie.. All I can think of off the top of my head is Queensland, Victoria, and Tasmania. Now I'll go google it!

Mandie - posted on 04/14/2010

No it's cool, most of you on here are from the US so I get that it's easier to use yr abbreviations, I just cant always work it out b/c they often aren't what you'd think- like I thought MN might be Minesotta but with NE I was going Nevada? Nebraska? Not sure LOL! That's one of the advantages of living in a country with only 7 states- not that hard to remember them all, I dont know how you guys remember all yours!

Ok a little challenge- does anyone know the names of the 7 states of Australia?? No cheating by Googling it!

Penny - posted on 04/14/2010

Sorry about that. It's Minnesota and Nebraska.

Mandie - posted on 04/14/2010

Penny I meant to ask you, b/c I'm not from the US I dont always know your state abbreviations-what is MN and NE?

Penny - posted on 04/14/2010

Hope things get better for you, Anna. Hubby's not sure he wants to do the therapy route because he thinks BM will just get pissed off and do more damage. I keep telling him no 6 year old should have to carry that much weight around. Pray he listens to me!

Mandie - posted on 04/14/2010

Anna that's a nightmare, I'm so sorry for you and yr family. My thoughts are with you

Holly - posted on 04/14/2010

I really would get it in the order Penny. That way you are protected from bm's wrath no matter what! :)

Anna - Goodness gracious! Sometimes I think I'm actually lucky my daughter's bm lives so far away from us...

Anna - posted on 04/14/2010

god reading some of your posts i thought i was the only one to suffer a heinous BM! after my 8yr old SD confided in me about rubbish that was going on at her mums house between her and her 13yr old stepbrother my hubby tried arranging for my SD to stay at ours whilst he was there, everyone agreed. we took her home the next night, within an hour BM was on the phone ranting and raving for us to collect SD. we picked her up and BM was stood on the doorstep calling SD all the names under the sun saying she didnt want her. we had SD for a week at the end of that week SD told her BM that she wanted to live with hubby and i. BM went mad, called the police. police advised us to take her home. we refused, it went to court. court ordered we take her back to BM, and after 7 months of abuse, lies and violence we asked the court to be excused from it all and stated we would see SD when she was 16yrs old and show her all the court papers to prove that we had tried to get custody. its very sad for the child to go through it all but my logic is if we are not in the picture SD wont have to listen to her mum slating her dad and seeing her step dad threaten us.

Mandie - posted on 04/13/2010

I probably would Penny, just to be on the safe side.

Penny - posted on 04/13/2010

Thanks Holly. Our court order says we can't make religion decisions without either parents knowledge. We told BM back when he got joint custody of our plans to bring SD to church and gave our church's website and our pastor's name and number should she have any questions. We also have told her that once a month when we see SD we'll go to church with her. So far BM hasn't said anything about it besides SD knows about God and heaven. I know hubby has told me BM's family attends church for holidays but not on a regular basis as we do. SD has also told us (when we listen to Christian radio station) that her Grandma listens to "these" songs. Of course Christian counseling could change all of that so when we go back for revision of court order I'll tell him he needs to add in him and SD do some counseling together.

Holly - posted on 04/13/2010

Penny, I looked and looked but couldn't find anything usefull. Most sites I visited (lawyers for both states as well as the main family relation courthouses for both states) were very vauge and seemed like they were basically saying it would have to be in the court order.

I spoke to the front office people at our local (CA) family relations courthouse yesterday (I had to pick up more paperwork) and the person at the front counter said that she has never heard of a situation where either parent can take the child to counseling without the other parent's approval. Of course, that is in my state so it may not be the same as yours, but that's pretty much all I could find... Sorry!

As for going through the church, just make sure there's no clause in the custody agreement regarding the child's religion and/or who decides what religion she will observe and/or if the other parent has to agree with that decision or not. I think it could be a slippery slope if you go the church route and the bm finds out. If there is something in the custody paperwork that states both parents have to agre on the religion and the bm does not like/approve of your religion then she could raise a big stink and cause a lot of drama. If, on the other hand, the bm is all cool with the religion you guys practice and is okay with your sd "experiencing" that religion on a regular basis, then it shouldn't be a problem. BUT, always remember that if you guys go behind the bm's back on something such as this, she WILL find out and she WILL make a fuss about it and it could get you guys in trouble...

I hope it all works out for you hun!

Penny - posted on 04/13/2010

Hubby says he's pretty sure BM has to sign consent and if she refuses then it would have to be ordered by judge. But I'm even thinking of going through a church family program where it's free and BM won't have to be involved.

Erin - posted on 04/13/2010

You know, I wonder the same thing, and I never even thought to ask for that psycho's permission considering she never asks my husbands permission for Anything...but that is another subject all together. My Step daughter broke her arm and he didn't even get a call until after the lawyers began to harass her about it. I doubt she would approve of anything that would help heal any wounds between SD and my DH. She just wouldn't. But if he can get it in the court order to attend counseling with his daughter she would ahve no choice. And something I seriously think in his situation would be very much in the child's best interest no matter what mom says. Good food for thought ladies!!!

Holly - posted on 04/12/2010

I'll look into it for you when I have a moment! :)

Penny - posted on 04/12/2010

The court order is in MN and we are in NE. I am just wondering if we can do counseling without BM's consent if it is during our parenting time and about our relationship with SD.

Holly - posted on 04/12/2010

I just wanted to let you know that I have not had a chance to look up the laws here regarding the couseling. I've been so busy today (and tomorrow is dedicated to the stupid DMV, so I'm not too sure if I'll be able to do anything tomorrow either). I might get a chance tonight, but I wanted to let you know that I didn't forget about looking it up for you! What state are you in again (or I guess I should ask what state the custody agreement is in)? Although now that I think about it we might want to check the laws for both states just in case... hmmm...

Mandie - posted on 04/12/2010

I would look into it Penny, that sounds like an awesome idea, especially after what you told us on the other post about what she told you guys recently.

Penny - posted on 04/12/2010

I was just wondering since I read on someone's post about BD and SD going to counseling together to build their relationship. I thought that would be a great idea when we have SD this summer. Or even if we do a family counseling with me, hubby, and SD (since our daughter is only 1).

Mandie - posted on 04/12/2010

Thanks Holly, my ababy boy woke up and I never got the chance to PM you about this one. xoxoxo

Holly - posted on 04/12/2010

Hey Penny. Mandie said she would ask me, but I just read this, so I'll go ahead and answer here! :)

Honestly, I don't know. We've never put our daughter into counseling and the subject has never come up (she suprisingly well adjusted, the bm is the one that needs counseling, but she refuses...). I can look into it though and see if I can find out from anyone...

Mandie - posted on 04/11/2010

Here in Australia you can take them to whatever professionals you like if you have joint legal custody. The only thing you cant do is make the other parent take them during their time if they refuse. But obviously I dont know if that's the same in the US but I would imagine so. I'll ask Holly, she knows alot about that kind of stuff with regard to US law. Penny would the Court help you with this one? I find it hard to imagine a Court wouldn't think counselling was in the child's best interests?

Penny - posted on 04/11/2010

Question ladies: Can you go to counseling with SD without BM's consent during your parenting time? If you guys have joint legal?

Mandie - posted on 04/11/2010

Erin, your counsellor sounds like a good one and that would really help. Our boys did a similar thing and it was really helpful. Sometimes little people see things so differently to us and once someone like a counsellor puts us all on the same page it can make it easier, even if the situation itself doesn't change.
Another thing girls, is look out for those not-so-obvious signs that your relationship with the kids is better than you think. An example:- Early on the kids were often interviewed by Child Services and it was almost always at school and during BM's week- which was a nightmare b/c it embarrassed them at school and also she would sit them down and grill them (and say things like "If you said something bad about mummy I'll have to go back to jail"- yes, lovely I know; nothing like making them responsible for her behaviour hey?) about what they said. So at one point I really lost it at the CS chick and said that if they're not going to do it in a safe environment for the kids, at least TELL me when it's going to happen so I can warn them. She promised she would etc; but of course the next time it happened, they didn't warn me. So I got a phone call from youngest SS from school and he was really mad at me and yelling at me and he said "You didn't tell us Mandie and I was scared and I wanted you to come get me!" At first I was really upset and thought why does he get mad at ME and not his mother since she was the one who put him in this position, not me! And then it occurred to me.... when he was- in his mind- in trouble, he wanted ME to come, not her. B/c he trusted me to make it better, not her. I learned that day that sometimes their faith in you shows in wierd ways and not how you'd like it or expect it.
And Penny thanks for saying that about my post, that's lovely. I know it's super hard to live through the rough times until you get to the point where they understand, it's ok for people to say 'you'll get there' but it's very hard to live it. Hope this helps.

Erin - posted on 04/11/2010

YES Mandie, thank you for that. I know it, but its so hard for us to deal with it when its right in front of us. When we get her down here our counselor wants my husband and his daughter to go to reconnecting counseling so to get all the past hurt, questions, feelings and misunderstandings out of the way of thier relationship and start the healing process for both of them. I really hope we get her for the entire summer...I doubt it but even a few weeks would be great. ANd then hopefully we will get winter or spring break as well as half holidays. That way we can become a family. Im also looking into Skype becasue if we could see her face to well...screen, and have a talk once a week other then the short five minute "im too busy" conversations, it will be like we were actually in her life.

Penny - posted on 04/11/2010

Mandie I knew that.. but its always nice to hear. Especially when you're going through the heartbreaking, heart wrenching visit. I'm going to save your post to my desktop and when things are frustrating with SD because of BM I'm going to read it. Thanks so much for your post!

Mandie - posted on 04/10/2010

Penny and Erin, I know exactly what you mean and it's so painful. But can I just tell you something our boys' counsellor told us that, essentially didn't change the situation but it made it easier for us to bear:- it's not the children hate us or dont want to be with us, it's just that they are so frightened of displeasing their mothers. This is why we get the cold shoulder etc- it's easier for them to turn on us b/c they KNOW we wont withdraw our love but not so with their mothers; and it's also partly resntment b/c they dont undertsand exactly WHY mommy's mad at us, they just see that we are what makes mommy mad- and mommy must be made happy b/c I have to live with her the most. Does that make sense? When they get older they DO see it although they react in different ways. My oldest SS would do ANYTHING to make her happy although he knows her attitude is messed up. Whereas the youngest actively stands up to her when she'd being inappropriate- even to the point where he'll tell her 'it's none of your business' when she tries to get info out of him about us and our lives. It's a control thing- kids have none so they take it where they find it and often theparent who is actually doing the right thing by them is the one who gets the brunt of it. I hope that helps.

Leisa - posted on 04/10/2010

Im so sorry darl this must be hurtful for you and your husband. When we had joint custody of my SD and things like that would happen or the BM would ask for us to have her back earlier or the BM woud sent SD to her grandmothers place when it was meant to be her time I would write it all down in a yearly planner. Now that we have full custody, my SD's BM doesnt ring her at all, will send her a bday present, xmas and easter presents but that's it, walks the other way when we see her down town. But thats her choice and my SD doesnt want to know her. But we give her everything that is sent to her so she wont be upset with us later on in life. You dont know what the BM of your SD is saying. I would write letters, document it so that when she is older she can see that you both tried your hardest and she will know the truth. Good Luck my thoughts are with you.