To tell or not to tell...?

Penny - posted on 04/25/2010

Yeah.. very heart breaking.. So sick of PAS and how it hurts SD. I wanna tell BM "you don't love SD because if you did you wouldn't be hurting her as you do!"

Erin - posted on 04/25/2010

Great Link Penny, I sent it to my husband as well. The more we know the more we can save these kids from PAS.

Mandie - posted on 04/24/2010

Yikes Erin- she sounds GREAT!! NOT!! Vicki- while I can see what you mean- after all we're all mums ourselves, remember- as much as you might not like to hear it; us SM's hear that stuff from our SK's too. In fact one of my SS's has told me his mum can 'get screwed' with respect to Mother's day- (dont worry I set him straight about both his attitude/language and not being disrespectful to his mother) but regardless, this is how he feels. Kids dont like being away from EITHER of their parents and will sometimes try to manipulate the situation to their own advantge- and really who could blame them? They love you both and they want to be with you both, all the time.

Penny - posted on 04/22/2010

Erin, I got a great link for you. Lots of good info that will hopefully help! http://mkg4583.wordpress.com/category/mu...

Erin - posted on 04/22/2010

yea, once I had a pic of my step daughter on my page among my family pics with the caption "i miss my beautiful step daughter" and she flipped out. cursed my husband out, started a HUGE fight that involved several lawyer calls and her publicly stated that " that crazy B***H wife of his had the nerve to have a pic of M of her page, I could rip her F*** throat out" ...healthy individuals...

Penny - posted on 04/21/2010

I also know she stalks our FB and myspace pages because I used to have a pic of me and SD up and she quickly emailed hubby to tell him I needed to take off that profile pic. Pissed me off! Now we are on super private.

Penny - posted on 04/21/2010

Mediator pretty much said to treat that letter like junk mail and that he was doing it to shut up BM. Told hubby he knows he's a responsible parent. But still.. I agree BM's a stalker. I think she wants to see SD with us crying and carrying on for her or something. I'll have to ask hubby if he told mediator about 'running' into BM.

Sarah - posted on 04/21/2010

Penny- I wonder if there is a way for when you and your husband have your time with your SD that the BM can't be around her on your time. Even if the BM knows the exact address of where you are staying, vicki has a point, sounds like she is stalking you on your personal time with your SD. Thank gosh my SD's BM lives about 4-5 states away and we don't have to deal with that problem. Ask the mediator about that, if it can be done for your sanitity sake.

Vikki - posted on 04/21/2010

Stauker!!! LOL

Penny - posted on 04/20/2010

Thanks for your incite Vicki and Anna. I really don't think BM has a problem with me, it's with my hubby. I honestly think she wants SD all to herself and can't stand it that she has to share her with us. I'm reluctant to let BM know anything about our time with SD because she twists everything we say and do around to make us horrible. And during our visits we always stay in the same big city yet somehow we've literally run into her on occasion. Luckily SD never sees her mom, but what are the odds of that? Especially since hubby's told BM where we are staying and what we are doing.

Anna - posted on 04/20/2010

oh penny i know what you mean when you say you dont want to respect BMs wishes. my SDs BM is constantly direspectful. she refused my hubby contact with SD if i was there. when i was heavily pregnant with my daughter i was working 40hrs a week and in england our schools have a 6wk holiday (end of july-beginning of september) BM decided she wanted to go on holiday without her kids so DEMANDED we have SD. hubby said he was working so couldnt, then she had the cheek to say what about anna? i said i could string my days off together and look after her, BM threw a fit and refused us contact for the rest of the holiday.
because hubby worked i looked after SD when she stayed. we had fun but i was bending over backwards to please all parties and got everything thrown back in my face, even from my hubby.

Anna - posted on 04/20/2010

what a pain in the butt! i would want to know where my child is at all times. if i were in your BMs shoes i would request where my child is staying, not to cause trouble for the other party but to know in case of emergency. but if your BM wants the info to cause trouble give her a contact number, i.e a mobile and just make sure you bloody answer it when she rings! that way shes got no excuse to complain when you offer a contact number instead of a location.
because my SDs BM chased me out of my home of 8yrs i moved away and refused to give my address to anyone. recently my SD has asked to visit and her BM has said yes if an address is given. i now have to collect her from her home and take her to a public place.

Vikki - posted on 04/19/2010

Ugliness. This is not a good thing. I am the parent and have a step mom that i have to deal with. from the other side, it is hard for us to trust the "other woman" please understand, not personal, just woman for you. When we have the primary care and then send them off, we are left with "why do i have to go?" "I wont be bad anymore" and other guilt. It was had for me in the beginning. I can honestly say that in the beginning, i was pretty nasty to her. My ex told her that i could be the nicest person you ever met until you crossed my path. then i was a b***ch! Well he was right, I took it one step further and told her that all would be well with us until she pushed my bottoms and i had to remind her that she was my child not her's. Well its been about seven years now and after alot of "she's my child, not yours" we have come to terms for the most part. It also helped when i explained myside of the reason that me and my ex got our divorce and that before she came into his life, he never called her or saw her for three years. Hang in there. We are not all that bad. Just angry cause we have to deal with the sniffles, wying, etc for the most part and the step mom only has a small amount of time with them. Even though she is a raging super nasty person, as long as you let her know that you love that child and show her that you would do anything to make sure "her" child is well cared for and loved, hopefully she will simmer down. I did. Informing her of all that goes on, even though we really dont want to hear every single boring detail, give it. I makes us chuckle sometimes and lightens the mood. My little one even has gone as far as calling her step mom...."Mom". Wow! that was big for me. but had to step back and see that my little one really trusted her enough to call her that. she was not forced or pushed. she just did it. I will pray for all of you and hope it will turn out. Dont look it as "having to deal with her" look at it as "sharing the experience you shared with that child" even if it is with her. Might help....

Penny - posted on 04/19/2010

Just got a one sided letter from mediator saying we need to tell BM where we are staying when we have SD. Hubby's gonna give him an earful tomorrow when he calls him. We always tell BM where we stay. It's us who has to hear second hand from SD that her and BM go on vacations and she misses school for illnesses and how BM threatens to not release SD to us if she doesn't know the exact address where we are staying. Sometimes I get so sick of this drama.

Sarah - posted on 04/19/2010

Penny we do give the general area of where we are going to, mostly it is to visit my husbands mom and dad so BM doesn't have issues with that. If we go anywhere other than that we tell her where we are going but don't give her exact hotel or anything. We all have cell phones so she contacts us that way. For the full custody thing, my SD got tired of moving around alot, because of her BM and she had decided that she wanted to come live with us. There is also a long drawn out story to that too. Her BM was trying to pull our legs and to get the right paper work for the lawyer done. Thought we were going to have to file for contempt to keep SD in state til she signed the right paper work.

Penny - posted on 04/18/2010

Sarah, do you tell BM the general area where you vacation or the exact hotel location? I'm just curious, how did you guys finally get full custody?

Sarah - posted on 04/18/2010

I have just read this whole forum and Penny I sympathize with you and having to deal with this BM. I can't believe that a mother would tell her own daughter that she can't tell her dad that she loves him. We now have full custody of my SD who is 15 yrs old. She started coming to visit her dad when she was 11. Her BM wanted total control, from having her call every night down to making sure she was eating properly. I later found out that my SD had told BM that I was not letting her eat. What it was that her BM told her she had to eat every 2 hours. I don't think so. Now to get back on track. When we go on vacations if we go out of state we let her mom know where we are going for vacation but we don't give her the very detail of what we are going to do there. SD has her own phone so she can talk to her BM anytime or text anytime she wants. We let her do that. SD is old enough to make her decision of when she wants to visit her mom and when she wants to come back to home. I do not get along with BM, I have tried in the beginning but you can only do so much when the BM lives in a fantasy world and wants everything her way. I hope things get better for you Penny and continue to encourage your husband and SD to have a good relationship. My SD means everything to my husband and won't let anything stand between him and her. Her BM has messed her life up so bad and we are having to pick up the pieces of what her BM has left behind for my husband to fix along before SD turns 18. Its been a long expenisive road that my husband and myself have had to fix so she can start with a clean slate.

Penny - posted on 04/13/2010

Megan, that's great. I'm going to add it to Mandie's comment I saved to my desktop to read during rough times.

Mandie - posted on 04/13/2010

I think yr exactly right about that Erin, that's exactly how they think- if yr not with me they're not yr children. Let us know how you go.

Erin - posted on 04/13/2010

Penny, Im so sorry!!! Its very good that she feels like she can talk to her dad. My SD won't but I bet those very same words came out of her mothers mouth to my SD. She at least said that very thing to my husband. She told him he deserved to have a horrible relationship with his daughter becasue he was a....father and a worthless human being who didn't deserve her love. Mind you they've been divorced for 8 years, both moved on and he has done everything in his power to kiss her butt to be able to see his daughter, and all she can do is try and ruin his relationship with his daughter. Its like they think "if he's not with me he can't have our daughter at all"

We are still waiting for the lawyer to send us the modification papers....to be continued...

Mandie - posted on 04/13/2010

Oh Melanie how true is THAT??? You should write that up and patent it LOL!

Melanie - posted on 04/13/2010

yes , but remember, we are women too and we are there to balance the crazy and be good role models for the balanced life we hope they achieve...regardless of what you believe in... we are in these kids lives for a reason and it is a powerful responsibility! there should be some kind of disclaimer for signing up to be a stepmom...are you prepared for constant chaos?frustration and daily challeneges to be a bigger better person? looking for the challenge of personal growth on a continual basis? willing to risk it all put your ego aside and love a child who may at some point openly blame you and scorn you for things outside your control? share your family with at least one other family you don't pick? have all your family outings,vacations , holidays influenced by others? then sign here! (see page tqo for benefit plan and refer to it when things get tough.. and they will!)

Mandie - posted on 04/12/2010

Megan- ok I'll read yr PM and reply there, thanks for letting me know.

Penny- gosh i wish i could do something to help (and you too Megan) so frustrating to hear of good people who are great parents being given a raw deal by some childish, vengeful person grrrrrrrr! :(

Megan - posted on 04/12/2010

Penny, your SD is SO lucky to have you and your husband in her life. I forget where I heard it, but someone suggested that step-mothers/fathers tell the children that they understand how difficult the situation can be on them, so if they want to "pretend to not like us when you're with your mom, that's okay." So, this makes you the good guy. Your SD may not be old enough for this yet, but maybe she is. She sounds so sweet, this is truly heartbreaking.

Mandie, my husband and I have talked about the way that SD talks to him (she doesn't so much do it to me). It's hard to know, though, what is normal rebellion and what is due to the situation. I get very defensive when I hear her talking disrespectfully to my husband, but unfortunately I also feel that she is way too immature to have a real talk about what is going on in her life. (I think the things BM has done to her have done some real emotional damage, but BM refuses to put them in counselling). My husband just feels like he is walking on eggshells most of the time. (I sent you another PM)

Mandie - posted on 04/12/2010

Oh my God Penny that must have just about broken yr hubby's heart! How dare she?! (BM I mean) And can you IMAGINE how she'd be if he did it to her (not that yr man would I'm sure, as he's got his priorities right) I can understand hating yr ex- god knows if I never see mine again it'd be too soon; but I dont understand how anyone could wilfully damage their own children just to get back at an ex. Your poor little girl, I wish I could introduce her to my youngest SS and he could help her through it.

And yr right, I have so many single friends who'd give their left arm for their children's dad's to take more of an interest- one of life's ironies.

Penny - posted on 04/12/2010

How pathetic are these women? It makes me so mad that so many women want their BDs involved and they don't give a care yet we have our hubbys who have to go to hell and back for their kids. And still get treated like trash. SD finally got it off her chest that BM told her to never tell her dad "I love you" until he proved his love and she felt he earned it. Then she burst into tears and told him "I know my mom hates you. I just don't know what to do about it!" Poor girl! But after my hubby told her it was okay and he only cared about what SD thought. The rest of our visit went really well!

Mandie - posted on 04/12/2010

Yes Megan, sadly the world is full of fool and we see most of them. I think (most- not all, like all jobs we have our fools too) Police in general can keep it in perspective b/c when you see enough people die you learn what's important in life.

I'm sad to hear that for your husband- it's certainly not my attitude, in my experience men suffer more from Domestic abuse b/c 1. no one believes them and 2. people think men should be able to look after themselves but dont undertsand that if a man puts his hands on a woman in self-defense it can be turned around on him. Also most men are brought up not to be physical with women and it's a hard habit to break, even in self-defense. That said, we know how you feel b/c it was the same for my hubby until BM committed the offences which landed her in jail. The irony is one of my bosses once told me I was an asset to his station b/c of all my personal experience of Domestic Violence! Yikes.

I can see what you mean Megan and it sounds to me like your SD is a little like my oldest SS. In their hearts they know it's wrong but they're also too scared to be around mum when she's angry. The only solution? Take mum's side; but sadly after a while it's like an oft-repeated mantra and it becomes what they actually believe. I now believe my SS suffers from Stockholm syndrome b/c of BM's brainwashing. (I have a great online resource about how kids in our situation can suffer from it the same way as hostages- I can give you the link if you like) Example:-We've always wondered if her current husband knows that she was jailed and if so, if he knows it was b/c she harmed the kids- esp as he has a child that stays there too. Anyway recently my hubby was having an argument with SS and although he's not proud of this, it just came out in frustration, he said to his son "Does (stepfather) even KNOW why yr mother went to jail?" and SS said "Yeh b/c she spat on Mandie." We were both STUNNED b/c although she's been convicted of that as well, it was MONTHS after the original offence and was a breach of a DV order. And we realised 2 things 1.This is what BM has told her new hubby, rather than the truth and 2. SS actually believed it too- even though he KNOWS the real reason (it happened in the early hours of his birthday and he's a bit messed up about it naturally.) So my hubby said "But son, you know that's not true" and little man just walked out with his fingers in his ears. I dont mean to keep you giving bits of my life (sorry if it's boring you to death) but it's the only way I think of to give you concrete examples. And yr SD is reminding more and more of our boy. The only consolation I can offer is lately we've sort of stopped fighting the good fight with him b/c it just made him more distant and more focused on her- and it seems to be working in that on his last visit he initiated a conversation about some of this stuff and he was sort of in our favour.

The other thing our counsellor told us is obviously to protect them as much as possible from the adult's 'stuf' but it's alos ok to pull them up when they are wrong or behaving inappropriately. And what she said to her dad is not right and a little bit cheeky. There's nothing wrong with saying to her "you know what honey, this is a situation between the grown-ups and I'm afraid you dont have all the information so you cant make that kind of judgement; besides which that is no way to speak to our father/Megan (depending on who's talking out of you and hubby and to whom she has made an inappropriate comment. Although ar ekids are damaged it's still our job as parents to lead them in the right direction to get on in the world. I'm guessing it wouldn't be ok for any of your biokids to talk to either of you like that and nor should it be for her.

Megan - posted on 04/12/2010

Mandie, this is outrageous! You dedicated your professional career to protect and assist people who truly need it and you have to put up with complete idiocy. We live in a fairly large city and anytime I have dealt with our police department they have been great. They are always able to keep things in perspective. (I can't imagine the things they see everyday)

The flip side is that when my husband needed the police to assist with pick-up of his kids in a rural area in a different state (because their step-father had threatened him physically) they said they would not get involved. They said to call him AFTER something had already happened. It may also have had to do with the fact that he is a man and should be able to take care of things by himself.

At this point, though, it is very difficult for me to try to see things from the kids' perspective. Whenever their mother does something stupid they (mostly SD) come immediately to her defense. I understand that the mother-daughter bond is very special, and I have a daughter of my own. But when her mother calls the police on us and SD says, "Mom is the boss, she has to be able to reach us," it is hard for me to hold my tongue. And when my husband agreed to bring the kids back early so that SD could work on a school project and BM left us sitting at the drop-off location for over an hour, SD said to my husband, "It's your fault. You didn't tell her when you were coming." I want to be understanding and provide her with the support and structure she needs, but she has become a very angry young lady. It's very hard.

Mandie - posted on 04/11/2010

It's great that you had a chance to vent Megan and that's what we're here for. You might be right that this is the message the kids are getting right now, but they will soon work out mum is being a fool. Mainly b/c whatever she says or does they do know that they are safe with you guys. If anything I think they will quickly work out that it's mum who is making trouble.

From a professional standpoint though, I especially hate women like this b/c it makes kids scared of Police, which makes it that much harder to find them if they go missing or are abused etc; b/c they will actively avoid Police or not confide in us if someone is hurting them. It's the same with idiots that see us out and about and say to their kids "See the Police lady? She'll take you away to jail if you dont be good" I HATED that and often stopped and said to them "that's really not a good idea, you want your kids to feel safe with Police, in case we have to help them one day" But the best laugh was one day when my friend (from work) went to a house where the resident had drawn alot of Police attention, if you follow me, and this little boy about 6 answered the door and just said "MUM!!! The dog c**ts are here!" Out of the mouths of babes hey?

Megan - posted on 04/11/2010

Well said, Erin. The sad thing is that this was not the first time she has had the police at our door during my husband's visitation time. What upsets me most of all is the message the kids are getting. Dad can't be trusted to take care of us, so the police have to be involved to make sure we are okay when we're with Dad. I was so angry I hijacked Penn'y conversation. Sorry about that, but at least it kept me from showing the kids how mad I was.



Penny, I was thinking about you because we are back in court on Tuesday and I have a bad feeling about it. I know you and your husband have faced a lot of inequities in the court system. I hope things get better for you. And kudos to you for always being the good guys. I know how hard that is ;)

Mandie - posted on 04/10/2010

Very true Erin

Erin - posted on 04/10/2010

Its the women who deal with police frequently becasue of their own issues that they would even think to call a cop. For real though. That is ridiculous. I bet if we lived in our SD's state the cops would be called on us too!!! lol

Penny - posted on 04/10/2010

That is soo crazy, Megan! Wow! I guess you haven't heard everything until you're on the step-moms forum.. I'm so sorry you guys had to go through that. How irritating. How is it that these women have so much power? It drives me crazy. At pick up last night BM refused to release SD to the people at the visitation center unless we told her the exact address of our hotel. How freakin ridiculous is that? This of course escalated into SD having all sorts of issues with the first hour of our visit. It just breaks my heart how cruel she is. And the only person she's hurting is her own child!

Mandie - posted on 04/09/2010

In fact I would probably have charged her with making a false complaint.

Mandie - posted on 04/09/2010

Dear God. You know as a retired cop that makes me mad. Women like that that use us to fight their battles, when our time is better used with kids that REALLY ARE being abused. She's lucky it wasn't me that attended that job, she would have got a mouthful and half about it!!!

Megan - posted on 04/09/2010

Penny, it's funny that I re-read this post tonight. My husband picked up my step-kids for visitation this evening (not at the pick-up location, BM had left them somewhere else). On the road his cell-phone battery died. He stopped at their maternal grandmother's house for dinner then began the two hour drive back home. BM started calling at 8pm and continued to call every 20-30 minutes for more than an hour (I have the massages to prove it because I was at the store most of this time) to tell us that she must have direct contact with the kids anytime they are with their father. They finally walked in the door at 9:30pm and the police were here at 9:45. The police were great, thought the whole thing was ridiculous and just laughed it off. Yes, BM has "sole" custody which means that when they are with their father and she doesn't like something we do she will have the cops at our door.

Penny - posted on 04/09/2010

Oh we are always the "good" guys... Even when it "sucks"..;)

Nickie - posted on 04/09/2010

I feel that it is necessary for your husband and you to give the BM the courtesy to tell her where you will be. If for nothing else, just to keep the communication lines open. Remember that being a step-mom is really the key to a good relationship..atleast that's what I have learned being a step-mom for 8 years. The BM is always going to be defensive..that's her baby. It sucks, I know, but it's true. So maybe complying with her would be best even though it's very frustrating for you and your husband...

Melanie - posted on 04/09/2010

possibly penny...she does have kids with a couple people!( ohh that was bitchy!) pmsing sorry!

Penny - posted on 04/09/2010

So if BM has "sole" physical custody and BD has "parenting" time, doesn't that mean when SD is with BD he has physical custody and can make the choices beneficial to SD? I just want to make sure I have this right because BM seems to think she has "sole" physical custody so she can do whatever the heck she wants without telling him yet during his "parenting" time she can and has this right to know all the details and criticize him.

Mandie - posted on 04/08/2010

Yes Erin that's true, and anything they do is excusable under the banner of 'But I'm the mom'. WHATEVER! I'm a mother too and I behave how I expect my kids to behave as APPARENTLY it's good to lead by example. Anyhoo.....

Erin - posted on 04/08/2010

oooohhh, wow, that would tick me off.... Its nice how Bio thinks nothing she does effect her daughters father. Weekend babysitters....that are disliked if not hated. Thats what we are!!

Penny - posted on 04/08/2010

And Betty.. we would like the same courtesy of knowing where SD is as well but BM doesn't feel we deserve it. For example we found out during last week's phone call that she went on a vacation with BM and her grandma during her Spring Break. Or during visits she tells us she spends the night at her "boyfriend's" house but her mom told her not to tell us cause it was a "secret."

Penny - posted on 04/08/2010

Melanie.. do we have the same BM? Lol.. If we tell her anything we do she has a way of twisting it and putting down our parenting to try to make us look bad. All via email or SD of course. We just don't respond via email even though half of what she says is dead wrong. And if SD says something we just explain it or tell her she's just a kid so she doesn't have to worry about it but she can be reassured she's always safe with us.

Melanie - posted on 04/08/2010

i have had all those feelings and power struggles too. it is beyond annoying to have "her" presence in everything...my boys BM drops in and shows up if we let her know where we are and always seems to put down some aspect of our vacation when she hears about it...it is hard to be the bigger person but i don't want my kids to think of me as nasty and spiteful... i try to chalk it up to BM's insecurity and keep it her sh** not mine... i have learned in counseling that the kids are taking all the pettiness in and its just not worth it to contribute to it since they have to carry the burden... she won't change and it doesn't get me closer to my goal of having healthy secure kids to "fight back" so i try to let it go and know that this too shall pass. it is not easy and a daily struggle for me but the mother lion in me fights for what is best for my kids not my ego! good luck.. remember they are just innocent kids

Betty - posted on 04/06/2010

I would like to know where my kids are at all times no matter who they are with.

Penny - posted on 03/29/2010

Thanks for all your input, ladies! I appreciate the support and perspectives.

Mandie - posted on 03/28/2010

I agree Nicola, and very well said. I wish you could give classes on being a BM LOL!

Nicola - posted on 03/28/2010

Penny, Thats a shame that the bridges have been burnt.

I know that ive burnt bridges with my ex-husband and my kids step mother through many silly misunderstandings or upset outbursts.

However it appears that in your situation, after reading what you have written that your step kids mum has a lot of dirty laundry which is being aired in your direction when it should possibly be delt with by your husband.

Taking on her emotional pain isnt your responsibility...(not that it needs to be rubbed in her face, which im sure you dont do by the sounds of it) but it does sound like she has a lot of hate and anger in her heart. Maybe she will always be like this...it could ruin her life. But it doesnt have to ruin yours.

I commend what you said to her when she refused to let you attend the counselling session.... I would have said exactly the same thing.
Thats integrity...dont loose that, as it benefits you more by having that quality, than if you didnt.
Its not about being the bigger person, its about being consciously aware of emotional intelligence.

You go girl !!
xx





Thats just life i suppose....

Penny - posted on 03/28/2010

Nicola, I wish my SD's mom could be understanding like you. She's never given me a chance as when my husband finally went for visitation it was all about badmouthing him and hurting the growth of his relationship with his daughter. I don't think she really says anything about me. When we went to SD's therapy BM refused to let me join in the intake portion. She said she'd take SD and leave if I came in. I point blank looked at her and said "I respect your wishes and will wait out here." Yet at the end of the therapy SD came right to me, grabbed my hand and told me she wanted me to come into the therapy session. I adore my SD and I feel she feels the same about me and especially her little sister. I've tried to be cordial to BM since I know she hates my hubby but so far.. no luck.