spanking my baby!

Renee - posted on 12/28/2011

i guess i want to see my husband treat her with more love than just discipline all the time. telling her to pick up her toys, or no dont do this or constantly on her. instead of redirecting her and playing with her. when she acts up in the store he says everyone is looking at us and he gets upset. i just try and get her to calm down or distract her with someting else, as ive read in alot of parenting books. maybe you are misunderstanding how im SAYING my baby. Im not saying it as "MY" baby. im saying it as though she is my darling or my sunshine or my sweetheart, as I said earlier, "Shes my baby." or "spanking my baby." she is my sweetheart and thats what i refer to her as. as far as underminding him, we discuss episodes later on when she is in bed. i just dont want to see his temper flare with her as he has with me and others. Ive known him for five years and saw him with his kids when we got visitation, now we live in another state so they arent around. But whats wrong with using the term, routy or house apes? its a term for unrully kids not toddlers or infants, grade school aged kids who tare up things and are defiant and disrespectful? why would i refer to her siblings as that when talking to her, i thought this discussion board was amongst moms not children?

Tzan - posted on 12/28/2011

Renee, you made a conscious choice regarding how you want to discipline your child based on your childhood. How do you know that he has not done the same? What makes one more right than the other?



In regards to his ex-wife, there are probably a lot of things about that marriage that you don't, and probably will never, know. That includes her real reasons for her stipulations in the divorce decree. However you can not determine how he will be with the child you have together based on what his parents did or the divorce decree.



I realize there is a lot you are not saying, which is good. But, make sure that you truly understand as much of the full scope of what is going on with your husband before your make assumptions or determine what he wants, thinks, or feels regarding any and all of this.



As women we all know that men are not the most communicative of God's creation, especially when it comes to their feelings or what is really going on. The point being...do not judge a book by it's cover and right now, he might have only shared the cover and the first two chapters with you. Hope that makes sense.



Do not make assumptions or judgements. Try to talk to him about your concerns and his. If you understand him then you will understand better where he is coming from with his ideas on discipline. And you will be able to approach an amicable and mutual decision regarding how to raise your daughter.



Start with each of you defining what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior for your child. You will probably find you have differing thoughts on that. Keep the focus on the child, not each other or your backgrounds and respect each other's opinions. Then determine what is age appropriate consequences for each unacceptable behavior. This should include what to do when your child repeats the behavior in a short period of time after being corrected. Again keep the focus on raising a healthy, happy, mannerable, social, well adjusted, and loved child, not on each other's background.

Tzan - posted on 12/28/2011

There are sooooo many parents today that come from what would be considered abusive upbringings. I think there needs to be clarification that just because someone was abused or strictly disciplined (myself included) does not mean that they automatically will abuse their children! The greatest disservice and misconception we place on ourselves and others that have this kind of background is that we/they will continue the cycle with our/their children if we/they don't completely remove any trace of remotely similar discipline when it comes to raising our own children.

To say that someone will more than likely abuse their children because they were abused is the same thing as saying that because someone's parents were extremely organized and clean people they will be extremely organized and clean. Or because someone's parents loved to shop they will love to shop.

Are we predisposed to our parents habits (good and bad), behaviors (good and bad), and lifestyle (good and bad)? Yes! But are we automatically doomed to repeat or implement all their stuff? No!

To say or think otherwise is ignorant!

Caylynne - posted on 12/28/2011

Personally I think Keri is spot on. You are already underminding him with how you keep refering to her as "your baby" she is his baby too. Everytime you tell him he's doing it wrong underminds him. Probably makes him feel like he's a bad parent. I also personally think it reflects very poorly on you to be talking about his other children like that. And I sincerly hope that once your daughter is older you never once refer to her siblings like that infront of her.

Renee - posted on 12/28/2011

KERI, THESE POSTS OF PPL I DONT KNOW ARE FOR MOMS LIKE ME WHO DONT HAVE ANYONE TO TALK TO. WHY ARE YOU ON THE DEFENSE OF MY DAUGHTERS FATHER? SHOULDNT YOU BE ON CIRCLE OF DADS THEN? IM VENTING BECAUSE I WANT ADVICE ON HANDLING A SITUATION BEFORE I MAKE AN INSULT ON HIM OR UNDERMINE HIM! HIS PAST WITH HIS FAMILY AND HIS ROUTY CHILDREN AND HOW HE HANDLED THAT REFLECTS MY PROTECTIVE NATURE TO HOW HE MAY HANDLE OUR DAUGHTER. SHE IS MY BABY, I AM PROTECTIVE OVER HER, HE NEVER REFERS TO HER AS HIS DAUGHTER OR HIS BABY. THERES MORE IN DEPTH IN THIS FAMILY THAN WHAT IVE STATED IN MY QUESTION. DONT COMMENT ON MY POSTS IF YOU ARE GOING TO LECTURE OTHER MOMS BECAUSE THATS WHY WE ARE ON HERE IS TO HELP ONE ANOTHER NOT CRITICIZE, UNDERSTAND? AS FAR AS IT GOES, IM TRYING TO KEEP MY BABY CALM AND MY HUSBAND IN SITUATIONS THAT IVE MENTIONED ABOVE. IM THE PEACE MAKER NOT THE ONE WHO STATES, "YOUR CHILD IS ACTING UP AGAIN." I DONT PUSH BLAME IM ASKING WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE SITUATIONS AT HAND

Renee - posted on 12/28/2011

he is from a family of abusers, i didnt want to put all that out there. thats why i worry.

Keri - posted on 12/28/2011

First: spanking is NOT abuse! I think that’s the biggest misconception of all time. A swift swat on the butt never hurt anyone. It’s when real force is behind it that I don’t approve. I didn’t start spanking our son until he was about 3 and we don’t call them “spankings” – we call them “butt smacks” because they aren’t hard and don’t hurt. He knows we mean business when we tell him he’ll get one if he doesn’t do as we say and just the mention of one usually halts the bad behavior.
Second: You make it sound like your husband comes from a family of child abusers. Children, of any age, need rules and guidelines; otherwise every other kid you see would be in a cast or wheelchair. Rules and guidelines are meant to be enforced. If he’s truly ENRAGED about something he may be taking it a bit too far, but everyone gets upset when someone they are trying to interact with isn’t paying attention. You shouldn’t worry about what your sister-in-law does with her kids unless it’s directly affecting your life, which it’s probably not. When someone “acts up” in public others around them get irritated, so when your daughter screams in the store to get out of the shopping cart your husband isn’t getting mad “out of the blue” her behavior is what caused his reaction! I get mad when my boy tries to kick me in the FACE when he gets upset with me.
Third: whoever is getting mad will “blame” the other parent for the bad behavior – I know several people, including myself, who will tell the spouse “YOUR son/daughter is acting up again!” Honestly, I don’t think you do trust or believe in his parenting style. It also sounds like you don’t believe he loves her. Some of the strictest disciplinarians are some of the most loving people. I think it shows that he wants her safe and well and is trying to keep her from danger (which can be brought on by bad behavior – remember your daughter screaming in the store? Some irritated stranger may do more than comment to try to eradicate the behavior).
Fourth: It shouldn’t matter whether your daughter is your husband’s first child or not and his divorce decree with his first wife is none of your business. It’s so nice of you to refer to his children as “house apes”.
Fifth: way to bury the lead! Does he know this was how you were treated when you were young? If anything THAT sounds like abuse and you should have told another adult and tried to get help. If not, say something! It may change his feelings. Also, why do you keep calling her “my baby”? Isn’t he her father? It sounds like the TWO OF YOU need to have a long talk – send “your baby” somewhere for the day and have it out between both of you rather than venting in a post to people you don’t know.
Sorry, but I think a lot of us need to talk to the people we’re writing about rather than here, because then the important discussions are never had and the situation just gets worse.

Jenni - posted on 12/27/2011

I am raising 3 children without physical discipline but luckily my husband doesn't agree with spanking and his parents were never spankers. My mom did spank us, but she never liked to, she just didn't know what else to do in the ways of discipline. There just wasn't a whole lot of resources on positive discipline and alternative methods at the time.



There are plenty of methods to disciplining your child effectively without using physical discipline. So many equate no spanking to no discipline. Or no consequences for actions, just "talking to them".



You will probably never convince your in laws that their method isn't the "right" method for you or your daughter. But you must be clear with them that these are the methods *you* are choosing for your daughter and they need to respect your decision even if they don't agree. This means, they may not discipline your daughter in this manner. Instead provide them with how you would like them to discipline. Whether it be timeouts, logical consequences, redirection. You may not be able to escape their criticism but just be confident in your choices on how to discipline your daughter.



Now of course it's much more tricky when dealing with your husband as it's very important you are on the same page with discipline. It is difficult to find a common ground when one parent is completely against spanking. He fears that not spanking her = no discipline. Which probably scares the crap out of him when he thinks of dealing with a teenage daughter one day who has not been "disciplined". So my suggestion would be to research positive discipline methods. Build your arsenal and show him, that positive discipline isn't about sitting on the sidelines and allowing your child to rule the roost. Positive parenting does not equal permissiveness. He can still be an authoritative parent without having to turn to physical discipline.



Show him what he can do instead of spanking in certain circumstances. Explain what the certain method is meant to accomplish.



An example would be the timeout. A timeout is not suppose to be a substitute for spanking. T.O.'s are meant for specific behaviours. Generally, when the child has lost control of their emotions and is causing harm to themselves, others or property. Teaching the child to take quiet time to themselves when they feel strong emotions encourages an emotionally fit adult. They don't have to go it alone either, you can sit with them and help them work through the strong emotions. During this quiet time they can squeeze a bear, count to ten, do deep breathing, jump jacks anything that helps them work through their anger, frustration, disappointment in an appropriate way, in place of acting out negatively. If you treat it like a positive thing and not a punishment, your child will learn to take their own timeouts as my children have. Also by modelling the behaviour yourself. Announcing when you need a timeout, let your child see you go to a quiet spot and count to ten. Explain to your husband this is why you use them. Teaching your child how to handle these emotions with maturity and appropriately.



Positive discipline methods tend to take time, patience and consistancy. They are not a quick fix method. But they do boast more effective long term results. Think of these methods as the marathon of discipline, not the sprint to the finish line that spanking is.



If you'd like more info on specific positive discipline methods you can join our community here on COM:



http://www.circleofmoms.com/positive-beh...

Tzan - posted on 12/26/2011

There is nothing wrong with spanking as long as it is done in an appropriate manner. Ultimately, regardless of whether you chose to spank your child or not, the "punishment should fit the crime" or the disciplinary action needs to fit the offense. Spanking should not be the go to consequence every time a child does something they shouldn't, but neither should sweet talking. Essentially, we teach our children what the boundaries are by how we respond to their behavior. If you inconsistently or rarely or never discipline then your child learns very quickly that they can pretty much do whatever they want. If you spank everytime they do any little thing then it looses it's effectiveness. If you constantly give in to their demands, whether out of desperation, exhaustion, or because you just don't like to see them upset, they learn that and start expecting that everyone is suppose to give in to whatever they want.

Sounds like your child acts the way she does with your husband because you allow it. She sees how you treat him when he attempts to discipline her. He wants to address the negative behavior, you don't like the way he does it so you overcompensate with negative and disrespectful behavior towards him and sweet behavior towards your child. She views this as a reward. So she learns to treat her father with negative behavior because she knows she will be rewarded by you with whatever she wants. Not good!

As parents, the way we discipline our children is a learned behavior. Generally speaking, we either do what our parents did, or we do the opposite. What we should do is figure out what worked and what didn't, thereby implementing an improved version of their form of discipline.

There are ways to discipline a child that do not involve spanking. The key is consistency and follow through. If you tell them that certain negative behavior results in certain consequences, then you need to be prepared to follow through and implement those consequences when they test you (and they will). For example, if the consequence for lying is no TV or computer or phone (or whatever) for a week, then when they lie to you you need to take it away...not just threaten it. Otherwise they learn that you don't mean what you say. For example, if you tell someone (child or adult) that you will do something tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes, they learn very quickly that you don't mean what you say, regardless of how good your intentions when you made the commitment. You loose trust and credibility. Same thing goes for parenting.

You said several times that you view your 21 mo as a baby and you don't think she really understands. Let me tell you this...she absolutely understands! She understands that if she wants her way all she has to do is throw a tantrum or raise her voice, or cry or even remotely act upset and you will give it to her. You said, "shes a baby to me and doesnt do anything that needs punishment". So, disrespecting her father or other adults, throwing a tantrum when she doesn't get her way, or hitting adults is acceptable behavior? You also said, "when she is four or five and knows right from wrong". How do you think she is going to know right from wrong? It is not something that automatically kicks in when she turns 5, like when teeth start coming in. That's why it's called LEARNING right from wrong. In order for someone to learn something they need to be taught. A child learns more within the first 5 years then they do at any other time of development. That is a fact! Right now you are teaching her that it is right for her to demand her way, expect to get whatever she wants, and that disrespecting her father is acceptable and results in her being rewarded by you, who she is around the most. You are also teaching her that it's wrong for anyone to discipline her or to not give in to her, especially her father.

You are both her parents therefore you BOTH need to parent her. Clearly you have differing views on how that needs to go. So, you need to work really hard to come up with discipline that works for both of you...which means that you are both going to have to come down from your extreme views and meet somewhere in the middle. Because it seems that you are each causing each other to become more and more extreme in your views of appropriate disciplinary action as well as with each other and your daughter is caught in the middle. Neither of you are doing her any favors, and clearly your marriage is, and will continue to, suffer as a result. You are undermining his ability to be a father to his child, rather than trying to work with him. You complain that he does not seem loving enough yet and he complains that you don't seem strict enough. Find the mutually acceptable middle ground so you are BOTH giving your child realistic and age appropriate boundaries, and healthy and appropriate discipline. This, along with an abundance of love, hugs and kisses, and cuddle time will make a significant difference in your child's behavior and your marriage!

Joy - posted on 12/25/2011

We don't spank because we don't think it teaches our daughter what we want her to learn. If we tell her 'no hitting' (or kicking) because it hurts Mommy, Daddy, playmate, etc. then we also have to follow through with 'no hitting' our daughter. Discipline should be used to teach.

More examples: I was also spanked as a child - mostly for when I told a lie. Well, I learned to be more sneaky & manipulative so I wouldn't get caught and spanked. I'm trying to keep my daughter from that.

Instead I teach her consequences of her actions. If she's yelling or acting up in a store, we leave the store. -maybe she's too tired anyway and needs a nap. Whatever's in the store can wait til another time or if we were shopping for something for her - she doesn't get it. Or just yesterday: she was very excited for Christmas, but acted up during Christmas Eve service. So I took her to the car and told her she missed the service because of her behavior so we weren't going to do any more celebrating last night.

Perhaps you & husband should sit down and discuss what you want to teach your baby. They pick up so many lessons about life in the first 5 or 6 years of life. So be very careful about what is done to them.

Samsam - posted on 12/24/2011

I do spank my baby and it is not helping . now i wanna stop because he will get use to it and he won't then u have to spank him harder which leads to injuries and the key to children abuse . he listens to me better when i sweetly talk , its not he even understands why he gets spanked . I didn't like when i use to get hit when i was young , so y should i . STOP it now before it gets worse.

Tanya - posted on 12/24/2011

A little smack on the hand maybe but no spanking, She is way to young for that, she isnt even old enough to no better.

Kelina - posted on 12/24/2011

Ok loving your daughter and disciplining her are two different things. I have spanked my kids however I do avoid it whenever possible meaning they get spanked maybe once a month. And often less. When your daughter gets frustrated you have to teach ehr that it's not ok to hit and freak out just because she's frustrated. That's called a temper tantrum and is not acceptable. How you choose to deal with it is your decision but when my kids throw a temper tantrum they are told-when you can be calm then we will talk. Then I leave. Mostly my son, since he's a little older but my daughter does get it occasionally and she's 1. And your daughter is 21 months, there are things she can do to hurt herself a big one being running out in the street or parking lot unattended. My son did this once and only once. I threatened to spank him so hard he wouldn't sit for a week. he was about your daughters age at the time, and I have no idea if he fully understood what I was saying but he got the message from my tone of voice. I can understand why her dad gets frustrated when she does these things, but instead of taking over, how about teaching him what you do with her. Tell him how to get down on her level and talk to her and then make him do it. If you take over every time that's not going to make him feel like much of a parent. It's going to make him feel like you're undermining him, like he's a bad parent, and like he's not capable when he is. Every time I implemented something new with my kids, I had to teach my hubby how to do it. And then I had to work very hard to back off and let him since I was used to being home with the kids all day it was very hard to switch off from doing all the discipline when he got home, but it's possible!

Kimberly - posted on 12/24/2011

I am all for spanking BUT she is rather young and probably has no clue what she is getting spanked for. I used to tap my girls on the hands or diapered rear at that age. HOWEVER if anyone but me or my husband ever laid a hand on my babies (they are older now) I would put the fear of God into those people family or not!!! That is you and your husbands job and it is something you need to discuss with him when your daughter goes to bed!

Renee - posted on 12/23/2011

yes, she is his daughter too, but for some reason his first wife had put in the divorce decree no corp punishment to their kids while in his care. ive been with him for five years but split for a year and a half. my daughter gets frustrated and fights back with him and now me too. i dont like to see her upset so im always talking sweet to her and trying to get her to show me what it is she wants instead of commanding her like he and his family do children. he insists on teaching her to follow him instead of holding her hand and tells me she gets to do whatever she wants. shes a baby to me and doesnt do anything that needs punishment. when she is four or five and knows right from wrong and does something that could hurt herself then MAYBE then it would be neccassary but i dont want my daughter to look up at me like she sbeen scolded like a dog. ive already decided that if this doesnt change up by the summer im done fighting with hiim over it and i dont want him to be mean to her or resent her since his other kids live out of state and he never sees them. its like he has to try hard to show our daughter attention and love..

Teresa - posted on 12/23/2011

If he has a court order from his first marriage stating that he can't spank the kids... ask him how he'd handle her if he got a court order against spanking HER as well. Not that I think you should leave him over this, but maybe it would make him realize that spanking her is not an option.



I'm not totally anti-spanking, but the two of you NEED to agree on how you will approach discipline and punishment. If you have such a huge split in what you believe is appropriate... it WILL destroy your relationship.

Caylynne - posted on 12/22/2011

It's all a personal matter that should be discused between you and your husband.
I personally don't see an issue with spanking. My daughter gets her hands smacked, and does get her butt spanked if need be. She understands what she did and why she gets punished, and I sit her down and explain to her why. She's only 19 months.
You do have to acknowledge the fact that she is also his daughter as well. It's not like he's just a step father (unless I misunderstood) So he has just as much right as you do when it comes to punishing. The only thing you can do is come up with a compromise. Something that works for you, and for him.

Katherine - posted on 12/22/2011

She is your child, they have NO right to lay a hand on her or tell you what to do. I would start either ignoring them or tell them you do POSITIVE parenting which does NOT include spanking a 21 month old.
She probably doesn't even know what she did wrong at that age. I would say the same to your husband. Tell him to count to 10 before he wants to spank. Spanking out of anger could REALLY hurt her. It's no joke, he could hit too hard and damage her kidneys, break something etc......
She is just a baby. You have every right to feel this way and every right to put a stop to it.
If he continues to be abusive I would leave or insist he go to counseling, because obviously he has anger issues.