Wondering?

Heidi - posted on 06/03/2009

Sorry Leaha I worded it wrong. I did say I won't invite Matt any longer and that I admit, but he will be informed on things of when and where and time, but I won't invite him. If he chooses to show up fine if not, its not my problem. I just won't let Tanner know that his father knows about whatever is going. So it was my mistake.

And I have sent emails to Matt, and don't get any response to any of them, so whether he gets them or not I will never know, but at least I keep a copy of everything I send him for my records, just in case someone says I didn't let him know.

So I did not take it to literally, I just didn't word it properly.

Leaha - posted on 06/03/2009

Now hang on a minute, I think you're taking it a litte TOO literally Heidi. You should still keep Matt informed on Tanners activites so that he does have the oppertunity to attend. But you aren't forcing him, or putting demands. You are simply giving him the open oppertunities. If you don't tell him anything, then they are still both missing out! Send him an email, I'd say monthly would be good, with times and event dates. You can't completely shut Matt out of his life, and saying "I won't be inviting Matt to any of Tanners activities or birthdays" is doing just that. If he doesn't know when anything is, he still doesn't have the "option" of visitiing or seeing Tanner. JMO.

Heidi - posted on 06/03/2009

When I wrote I didn't have any expectations, I should have wrote I no longer have any expectations. In the past I have had expectations of what a good parent should or shouldn't do, but not any longer. I no longer will ask or have Taner ask his father when he is going to come and see him. I won't be inviting Matt to any of Tanners activities or birthdays, but if he chooses to come he is more then welcome to. I just know I won't be in the middle anymore and neither will Jaime, by the sounds of things. It will solely be left up to Matt to come and see Tanner. Matt knows when Tanner is available so there would be no conflict, but all Matt has to do is take time out for Tanner now, rather then always letting months and months go by without a visit. So what you have said to me I have taken to heart, and I have had some good sound advice from others, and I am backing away from the situation and letting whatever happens happen from here on out.

And Yes I know the song very well. And you are right it pretty much sums up Tanners situation is regards to his dad.

So have a great day and thanks for the advice!

Di - posted on 06/03/2009

Just some more food for thought......



I know its hard on you as a mother to accept the fact that Tanner's father isn't part of Tanners life really. You may never understand how a father can do what he does. I don't understand why a mother would take her daughters 1000 km away from their father and shack up with a man that is verbally abusing them. Take them away from their extended family and friends so that the only support base they have is the abusive step father's family who treat them as though they don't belong. And when the eldest daughter cant cope anymore she goes to a counsellor and then the mother uses that as an excuse to not send them home. So the bio dad doesn't get to see them for 6 months and she isolates her daughters even further. My favourite is 3 weeks after she moved up there, the bio dad and his wife and brothers flew up to see the girls (at great expense I might add) and she refused to allow contact because she hadn't given her permission, but used the stepmother as an excuse, saying if she wasn't there then the girls could have seen their father. I don't understand any of that but if I dwelt on it I would be so hateful that it would impact on the girls and I would never hurt them more then is absolutely necessary. There are lots of stories of what parents do and no one can really understand how a parent can do that to their children. I just let it go and celebrate if they are allowed to come home again in the next holidays and have a good cry if they aren't then get on with raising my boys. That's how I cope, and not get caught up in the bs.



I am going to throw this out to you....and I am not trying to upset you. You say you have no expectations of Matt, but what you have posted here seems to indicate to me that you thought that he would've visited your son, even texted him to ask whether he was or not. That is an expectation. Unless Matt had pre-arranged to come and see him then I would have known he wasn't going to come. If I was you Heidi, I would stop trying to organise it. Even by telling Matt that you can make arrangements so that he doesn't have to see you. Stop and let him organise it, if that is what he wishes. See you make it so easy for him to back off and say not my fault, he can make excuses that what you have arranged doesn't suit him. If you truly do nothing at all, not make it easy, not make it hard, then it falls completely back on Matt's shoulders. If you put conditions, like he has to pick him up and drop him off etc, then that gives him all the excuse he needs to not have any contact at all.



I am reminded about an old song called cats in the cradle. Do you know it? That pretty much sums up Tanner's situation doesn't it!

Heidi - posted on 06/03/2009

I know what you are saying and to be honest with you I have no expectations of Matt anymore and its coming to the point where Tanner has none either. I have tried over the years, by bringing Tanner to and from Matts house(even though Jaime says it was only a few times) but I know its way more then that. So I don't even and won't even bother trying with Matt anymore. Like I said if and when he is ready to try and build a relationship with his son it will be totally up to him, and not me or Jaime. What I am trying to understand is why any parent would do what Matt does. He spends tons of time with his daughters, and goes to there events etc., but when it comes to Tanner nothing. I know Matt and Jaime say they love the kids equally and they are treated the same, but I don't see it. If they loved Tanner as much as there daughters, then they or I should say Matt would make more of an effort rather then having other people do it for him. Thats the way I see, and maybe I am wrong, but I have had to deal with this for 8 years now. I say 8 years, because for the first 2 years Matt came every other week for Tanner, but as the years have gone by the visits have come less and less. I know Matt hates me because he has said it to me several times, but he needs to put his hate for me to the side and build a relationship with his son. I have even told Matt that arrangements can be made where he never has to see me again, but he can see Tanner, but that hasn't made visits any better. So for me my hands are tied and there is nothing more I can do. Just sit and wait till the day Matt opens his eyes and sees what he is missing out on, and by the time he does that chances it will be to late because Tanner will be all grown up.

Di - posted on 06/02/2009

When I say let go, I mean don't expect anything from Matt. That way you wont be disappointed when he doesn't do what you think he should. Its obvious that it bothers you big time that he came to town and didn't bother to see Tanner. But in reality that is between Matt and Tanner. I know as his mother you want the best for your son. Don't we all. But just because you would do it, doesn't mean other people have to or will do it. I can see that you have expectations as to what you think is the right way a father should be. Everytime Matt fails to live up to your expectation then you get angry, annoyed etc. But if you don't have the expectation in the first place then you cant get angry because he failed yet again. Do you get what I am trying to say? I know myself, that if I keep failing in someone else's ideals, values etc, and they become critical of it, then I feel less inclined to try because my best at that time wasn't good enough. So I think I will never be good enough and why bother, only to get knocked down again. No one likes to feel a failure, and it eventually drives that person away. From a distance, I can see why Matt doesn't bother much. I don't know him, I don't really know much of the details, except for what you write and it finally dawned on me that maybe this has a big bearing on his lack of effort. I am not blaming you in any way for what he chooses to do. But you have an input into the situation and maybe you can try something different. You cannot change Matt's behaviour, you can only change your own. So maybe you can just think about what I have written and either take it on board and adapt or throw it away as useless advice.

Francesca - posted on 06/02/2009

im sorry but not all men are like that!!! my husband tries his up most to see his sons, he will do anything for them. He also calls every tues at 6:15 its so his son knows and is prepared to recieve the call. i know cousins of mine who are on fb and are only 10, i think if its monitored then its fine. i feel heidi has done her best to encourage Tanners dad to see his only son. i would feel the same as she does if i had my own child and going through the same stuff as her. Yes it is down to 1 person not heidi nor Jamie its down to matt. i just cant and i will proberly never fully understand how a father(who has other children) cant be bothered with his only son. thats just my opinon.

Heidi - posted on 06/02/2009

He has a facebook account to chat with his friends. He has a friend list that consists of family and friends from school. That is what its mainly for. He is not on CoM at all, he saw my account when I left it on the screen by accident, when I went to tend to dinner. So he got a little nosey and noticed that his dad was coming to town. He does not know most of the stuff that has been done or said. I know now that I will always take the couple of seconds to log off, so he can't see what is going on.

There are plenty of kids from his school that have facebook accounts, along with kids he plays sports with. So not sure why you think he shouldn't have one because I know plenty of parents that let there kids have the accounts. Its a way for the kids to chat rather then on msn.

Leaha - posted on 06/02/2009

I just have a question, because this is bothering me and I guess I need to be nosy, lol. But with T having to deal with all of this drama in his life, why does he have a FB account anyway? He's only 10, I was under the impression that FB was for adults, and especially COM's is for mom's, not little boys. So how does he know all of the details of what his SM and BM is trying to vent and get support with? IMO, he has no business having a FB account number 1, and no business being involved in the "adult" drama number 2.

Heidi - posted on 06/02/2009

Well Di your words weren't a waste of time. I read what you wrote and I do agree with most of what you said. I am sure you are surprised by that, but its true.

You asked why is there set times for phone calls? Well I will tell you, to make sure that Tanner is home when the phone call comes, but quite often it doesn't. It was set in the court order that way. Tanner is more then welcomed to call his dad whenever he wants. Every number I have for Matt is programmed into our phone for Tanner to make it easier for him. And Matt can call Tanner when he wants as well, but if Tanner is not home then Matt will have to leave a message and Tanner can call him back. Just recently, Tanner had basketball on a phone call day, and Matt had called while Tanner was not here so my stepson took the message and gave it to Tanner when we got back, so Tanner called his father back and he wasn't home, so Tanner left a message and Matt never returned his phone call. I know that life gets busy sometimes, but Matt could have picked up the phone to call Tanner back, but he didn't. Anyway that is come here nor there, but if Matt calls and leaves Tanner a message and doesn't call back, Matt gets mad. So I don't think that is fair either. He shouldn't get mad at his son if he doesn't call back either. Its a no win situation. Just like in the past Tanner has mailed his father pictures, cards, and has emailed him, and his dad doesn't respond. So now Tanner doesn't even do that anymore.

As for stepping back from whole situation, I have. I don't ask Matt when and if he is going to visit, and I don't get Tanner to ask anymore either, because the answer is always the same. So if and when Matt is ready then he can call Tanner and ask him to visit.

Now Jaime is saying that she wishes years ago Matt would have had a paternity test done on Tanner to see if he was really the dad. The way I look at it, Matt should because I know for a fact 100% that Matt is the father, and if Matt ever felt he wasn't then why would he pay child support for a child that is not his? Just a question thats all.

I know Matt has never really been involved in Tanners life, missing out on birthday, sports, school stuff, surgery, the list is endless, but you would think with Tanner being his only son that he would want to build a relationship with him, but like you said he is male and thinks differently.

Di - posted on 06/02/2009

Heidi, I get where you are coming from. You are disappointed and hurt by your ex's supposed indifference to his son. Isn't this what its all about? You just are trying to understand and that is understandable. Unfortunately, the only one who can give you answers is Matt and he isn't giving them to you. I cant say why he does what he does. Leaha cant, even Jaime cant. Matt is the only one.



I know this much, my husband loves his daughters and misses them very much. Sometimes the grief his ex gives him makes him reluctant to want to continue the relationship he has with his daughters. Sometimes he is just a male and gets caught up in his business and doesn't realise that he needs to put in an effort with the girls. Sometimes, we have day to day things going on that take precedence over the girls. Never is it because he doesn't love them and want to be with them. For Shelley to condemn Andrew as a deadbeat dad over any of these things would be an absolute lie.



My husband has recently broken his ankle in an accident. I find it strange that his daughters don't ring him and just say hi dad, hows the ankle. They wait until he rings them. When I read your post, the question I have to ask myself is why doesn't Tanner call his dad? Life doesn't work to schedule always and a bit of leeway may be called for. So when Matt is supposed to call and doesn't have you ever thought about getting Tanner to ring him? I don't understand why there is an appointed time anyway. Why isn't Matt and Tanner allowed to just pick up the phone and ring each other at any time?



Heidi, we aren't against you. Please believe this. But when you write "He hasn't seen his son in just over 2 months now, so if it were you and you happen to be in the town visiting with friends and so on wouldn't you make a point of at least trying to spend an hour or 2 with your child knowing you haven't seen them in 2 months? I know I sure would, but then again I wouldn't let that much time go between visits" tells me this: -You need to let go, how you feel and what you would do isn't necessarily what anyone else would do. The other thing is my understanding is that Matt really wasn't around much when Tanner was young and for most of Tanner's life he has been married or involved with Jaime, which tells me he hasn't bonded with Tanner like you have. So he will never do what you do. The third thing is he is male and we all know women are so much different then men.



As another woman, who is a mother and can feel your pain in your words, I am trying to help here. I am not blaming you for what Matt does. He has to answer for his own actions. I am asking you to take a step back and look at the whole situation and see where maybe you are banging your head against a brick wall and hurting yourself. Instead of denegrating the effort Matt does with Tanner, maybe stand back and let nature take its course and let it be.



Somehow I think I have just wasted my time in writing this. I wish you well. I hope one day you understand and know that my only concern in writing this is your son.

Heidi - posted on 06/01/2009

Well Leaha I know what you are saying, but I for a fact that my sons father was in town for pleasure. He came here to go to a party on the Saturday night with his wife and friends. Apparently while they were here through the day they did some shopping and stuff. I am sure that could have waited and he could have taken some time out to see his son. I am not trying to make anything hard on anyone. I was just wondering why the father would come all this way to hang out with friends and not take an hour or 2 out for his son. I didn't tell my son that his father was in town until Sunday. I had texted the dad to see since he was in town why he wouldn't or didn't come to see his son. He never actually gave me that answer, but wanted to know why I would tell my son that he was even here. Well my son is a smart boy and his sm had it on facebook that they would be in town. No one said it was a secret, so to tell my son shouldn't have been such a big deal.

If the dad would come and visit on a biweekly basis like he is suppose to none of this would be an issue. I wouldn't plan things on weekends my son is suppose to be with his dad. So on the rare occassions the dad does call to want his son its usually last minute, so I really don't think I should have to cancel all my plans, which I have done in the past, and then the dad doesn't even show up.

I am sorry that your husband has to deal with an awful ex. Its not the childs fault and all you and your husband can do is be there for the daughter. So your situation is different from mine, because the dad knows where I live, he knows my phone number and he knows he is to call on Sundays and Wednesdays at 6pm. I guarantee that if my son is not at basketball on those days he is here for the phone call, otherwise he calls when he gets home. But quite often the dad either doesn't call at all, or its much earlier in the day on much later on in the evening. So I do not force my son to wait for hours for the phone call. Its not fair to him, but if the dad calls early or late and my son is home he will answer, but if he is not home and the dad leaves a message I make sure my son hears the message.

I do appreciate your advice, but like I have said a number of times if the dad would come on a regular basis none of this would be an issue at all, rather then letting months and months go by without a visit. That is the point I have been trying to make for months now, but no one seems to get that. I always get the blame. So all I can do is sit and wait and see if and when the dad wants to see his son again, because I am at the point now of not asking him anymore because I get the same answer everytime. Its either I will see what I can do, or sometime soon, and then more months go by without a visit. So for me my hands are tied until the dad starts to make an attempt now, because I have done my share and the sm has certainly done her share as well. Now its solely up to the dad.

Thanks again and hope you have a great day!

Leaha - posted on 05/31/2009

Well, This is just my opinion, yea, probably would be a good idea not to tell T, even if you know for a fact, that his father would be in town. If his father contacts you to try and set up visitation, then it would be acceptable to mention it to him. But why get him, and yourself, all worked up, if you don't even know for sure if his father, 1, is going to in fact be in town, 2 is in town for fun/leisure activities, 3 is able to take the time out for visitation. It is very possible that his father could have been in town for business, and was not able to take the time out this time. Try not to make it so hard on all of you. T is only 10, yes? Just let him worry about the things a 10 year old should have to worry about. From the sounds of it, you have a slightly hostile relationship with his father, so why bring T into it? On the other hand, when his father calls, make it a point to get T on the phone, no matter what. Nothing, other than school of course, should be more important than talking to his father. Same goes with visitation, everyone has different schedules and priorities in life. If his father calls and wants to have him for the weekend, let him go. Nothing should interfere with a long distance relationship with children other than school. It will not kill them to miss a soccer game, or basketball practice or an overnight with a friend, that's just not comparable to visitation time with a parent. I'm replying not only because I know a very little bit about your situation, both sides, but out of experience in my own similar situation. My eldest step daughter is 11 years old. Her mother and step father have not let her father have a meaningful relationship with her, ever. They moved out of state when she was 4, and we have been lucky to see her once a year. Every time we get a phone number, within a week that number is no good anymore. The current address we have for her, is no longer any good and we've been told she's moved at least 3 times since the last time we've seen her which was last Father's day. If we do get to see her, for example, last Father's day, we got a phone call at 9pm that they were going to be in town, and if we wanted to see her we had to meet them an hour and a half away by 10pm, then we would have to have her back there by 1pm the next day. Not worth it at all in my opinion, but we went and got her. Long distance relationships are extremely difficult, and if both parents can't get over their anger and hurt towards the other, the child will eventually grow up to resent one or both parents. And it's usually not the "absent" parent that they resent. I guess the only advice I can offer, is try not to be so hard on his father, and do all you can do to HELP the relationship, not make it worse. You may regret it later.