Any suggestions on discipline methods for a 4 yr old

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Michelle - posted on 10/29/2016

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Stephanie: If you don't want to read or post in here then don't. It's very simple. You did say you weren't coming back but you did. You also can't tell people what to do, I have said that before. If you don't want to keep the discussion going then stop responding at all.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/29/2016

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Furthermore, you uncomprehending wanna be parent: MY KIDS ARE GROWN.

Where the fuck do you think I got my views? From a fucking book? Not likely. EXPERIENCE, MY DEAR...25 YEARS OF IT.

When your four year old looks you in the eye, and says "momma, why is it ok for you to hit me, but not ok for me to hit my brother", it REALLY comes home.

My kids were no hit after that day, for ANY REASON. If I couldn't get through their thick skulls with other methods, then the failure was MINE, and if I'd hit them again, the failure would have been MINE.l

Happy to say, I am a VERY SUCCESSFUL parent of adults!

Thought you weren't going to argue any more?????

Oh, forgot...you're not. You've stooped to insults and degrading personal comments...Very adult of you. Is that because you can't give me the "sanctioning" that I deserve????

Dove - posted on 10/29/2016

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Hornets nest... lol No matter what you post there is no defense for it. If you don't mean it you shouldn't say it because online people only have your words to go by.

Are you saying that you don't really swat your child w/ a paddle for 5 minutes? Cuz it's a pretty moronic thing to say if it's not true... and a 100% moronic thing to do if it is true. Sick and abusive no matter how you try and justify it. You can post whatever you want, but you just make yourself look even badder as a human being and especially as a parent by doing so.

Of course... it's clear you don't care, so you're only wasting your time and breath... but it's yours to waste or not. As is ours... personally I will always speak out against child abuse whenever I can because kids deserve decent human beings as parents and too many are stuck w/ people like you raising them.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/29/2016

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“if I thought there was any benefit from thrashing this one out with you, I'd really have my work cut out, but I have more important things to spend my time on.”~~That seems to be your point in why abusing your kids is your preference…in the interest of “more important things to do”
“I must admit, it appears I made a bit of a mistake not looking at the line of small text at the top,”~~Yes, yes you certainly did, and your continued assumption that WE were in the wrong place
’hence the acrid comments and responses from this lovely little hate club”~~No acrid little comments, ms finade, just our opposing opinions to your abusive views. As far as “hate club”…Swinging pretty low, are we not?
“Well make the most of it now because I have no interest in wasting more time with people (excepting Jodi) who're not interested in genuine discussion and debate”~~did you just target another member on this board? WOW!!!
“character assasination, and bigotry. This behaviour belongs in the school playground”~~No one performed any “character assassination, nor bigotry. Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. No one in any way did that to you. A bigot is one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. Again, in no way can you apply that to us. We allowed you to present your opinions, and presented arguments against.
“Dove: Thanks alot for re-posting my sage comments/advice. Maybe if more parents applied them there wouldn't be so many brats blighting the life families up and down our respective lands”~~Lady, she did that so that everyone reading this thread would understand that you in no way want to look for ANY OTHER METHOD…In case you didn’t catch this, NONE of the rest of the board agrees with your views.
”Jodi: I'm pretty sure I've seen a forum or thread dedicated the the debate about whether to spank or not, and that would be a more relevant and appropriate place to discuss this matter, add that others could contribute as well which would help balance the debate.”~~UM…This is what we have been telling YOU for QUITE SOME TIME NOW
“I ought to point out that this debate, and indeed my profile and comments, are all focused on one aspect of one subject about child rearing, being spanking in relation to discipline. There are of course other aspects to child rearing, particularly positive reinforcement, and I recognize spanking is not the only sanction an adult can use”~~Honey, you blatantly post in another response that you don’t have time to use any of the “other aspects”, as you contradict yourself in the next sentence.
“I happen to find it quick and convenient compared to other sanctions”~~Quick and convenient What a fucking joke. PARENTING is not quick, nor convenient! It IS a job, and you DO have a responsibility to be the best you can be.
“believe it has its place in the disciplinary toolbox” MAYBE. A SMALL place. Like one that ends as soon as the child is old enough to comprehend their native language, and NEVER, EVER using implements
“As far as I was aware, was addressing an audience who also believed in spanking”~~We know. You keep stating this. We get it. We also pointed out MANY TIMES that you were not where you thought you were, yet you continued..
“Re' Michelle being a moderator; the 'point' you questioned was that if anyone on here is going to tell me what I can and can't say in such and such a place, about what others cant and cant say in such and such a place, it'll be someone who has the right to tell me what I can or can't say in such and such a place. Does that explain the point Jodi?”~~No, actually, your comment here only confused the’issue more
“Shawn: 'an argumentative human'? - that's rich, given some of your earlier comments.”~~Yep, and I stand by that statement, as you are continuing to prove it…
“'Purposely looked for posts on discipline' & 'sought out posts to brag about spanking'
I do not have to limit my viewing of posts and contributions on this sites to things that have only been posted recently. I have the right to search for posts that are most relevant to my situation, or experience - AND SO DOES EVEYBODY ELSE. To deny anyone the right to do that amounts to a kind of dictatorship. Who put you in charge of how people use this site!”~~No one DENIED you a damn thing, nor did ANYONE dictate how to use this site. We merely pointed out that, bringing up a post from more than a few days ago to specifically tout “spanking as discipline”, when the OP said absolutely NOTHING ABOUT SPANKING, seemed to be a deliberate act. It was an OBSERVATION. Not an ACCUSATION.
“As I exit this den of lions I leave a comment to all you who vilify parents who use spanking:”~~I have already agreed that there is a TIME when spanking MAY BE APPROPRIATE, and THAT ENDS AROUND THE AGE OF FOUR YEARS OLD. That is not “vilifying” a damn thing. That is presenting an opposing opinion to your abusive views.
“There are times when kids need a powerfull sanction, one that stops them in their tracks, makes an impression and rapidly changes behavior”~~No one disagrees that there are times when stepping up discipline is necessary.
“ without days and weeks of dancing around their sensibilities, dancing that loads the shoulders of parents who are already hard pressed for time.”~~UM, every friggin parent is “hard pressed for time” at one point or another. MOST of us don’t use that as an excuse to assault our cognitive human beings that we are attempting to raise and give a proper example to. YOU saying that it is a “quick” solution does indicate that you are not willing to actually try much else, because physical force and abuse effectively cow your children into fearful compliance without actually TEACHING them anything.
“By denying the validity and place of spanking, YOU DENY THE NEED FOR THE MOST EFFECTIVE, POWERFULL SANCTION FOR A YOUNG CHILD.”~~Actually, you are encouraging a more common sense approach with less violence. Does the world REALLY NEED MORE VIOLENCE???
“Because of the tosh you believe - my friend is living in hell with a 12 yo daughter who punches him, insults him, and makes a sport of winding him up. Its not much fun for the mother or other kids either. Had this kids butt been roasted the 1st time she kicked-off at him, they wouldn't all be suffering now.” ~~Your friend lives in hell because they DID NOT put an appropriate stop to the behavior before the child reached this stage.
“Because of the tosh you believe - another lady I know feels she mustn't take powerfull action needed when her 6 yo daughter screams and shouts at her beliously when she's unhappy with a request or situation that arises. If she does that now, what will she do when she's a teen?”~~Again, stop. YOUR FRIEND Should, again, USE HER TOOLS. That child can have plenty of privileges removed in order to modify poor behavior.
“Because of the tosh you believe - thousands of households up and down our lands are dominated by little tin-pot dictators who believe the world should revolve around them, and blight the lives of their parents, siblings and peers.”~~Really? You are blaming OUR PARENTING STYLE for YOUR FRIENDS LACK OF PARENTING SKILLS???? Rich, truly rich
“What these brats NEED (Jodi), is a damn good hiding or two to put them in their place, but because of your doctrines of tosh, too many parents are afraid to give them what they need, so eveyone suffers now, and later when they become egotistical gits.”~~Ah, the usual trash about “it’s ALL YOUR FAULT that no one else can parent their kids without hitting them
“Its time you measured the true weight of denying society the sanction of spanking, against the modest and fleeting bit of pain a spanking causes at the time. A little pain now, saves everybody alot of pain later.”~~And it is also time for YOU TO LOOK at the other side, and realize that continued abuse, including using implements is NOT WORKING as well as you think, and your “well disciplined/abused” brats will soon be set loose on society with their warped views on parental interaction.
“I have spoken..... Finito” *applause* Thank God

Michelle - posted on 10/29/2016

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And because of the tosh you believe, there are many children that think it's alright to hit other children when they don't get their own way. I have seen plenty of them.
There are arguments on both sides so how about you agree to disagree because you won't convince anyone here that spanking is at all a good form of discipline.

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Dove - posted on 10/29/2016

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I thought she wasn't coming back... lol She has to keep posting to say this isn't worth her time... LOVE HYPOCRISY!!

Jodi - posted on 10/29/2016

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To be fair, Stephanie, you haven't exactly been respectful in your approach here either.....

Stephanie - posted on 10/29/2016

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Shawn, if your comments are directed at me, don't even bother, cos I'm not reading any of these notifications now. Do something else with your time. Go out, have a drink with your friends - take a warm relaxing bath, watch a good film, whatever it takes to chill out. Waste no more time getting wound up about my comments and views - life's too short. Goodbye

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/29/2016

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Oh, so NOW, you're going to point out that my name is a "man's name"???That's t he best you've got???

FYI, SHAWN, as you are continually misspelling it, is a dual gender name, so get over it. YOU don't get to come at me about my fucking name! FFS!!! Pretty fucking petty, you "can't be bothered" to actually respond, but you'll try to tell me that MY NAME ISN'T MY NAME?????? WHAT THE FUCK???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Oh, and BTW, It is a female name in Celtic...

Don't point me towards "Christian" spanking, either. the Bible does say "he who spareth the rod spoileth the child", but it never, EVER says to use that fucking rod to abuse their kids

Stephanie - posted on 10/29/2016

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Dove - There you go again with the assumptions, not all of 'a spanking' is spent actually smacking. There are pauses and breaks to discuss what's happened and why it was a bad thing to do. I think you'd find that staged approach to a spanking is quite common.

If I had many hours to spend picking through these objections, points and arguments and have a proper debate I might, but I've got at least three bawdy people coming at me, and I'm choosing not to have that kind of battle now.

If you want to rail against the pro-spanking community start with the church - yes the church in America (particularly the baptists). Rail against the publishers, sellers and supporters of these Christian pro-spanking authors:

1. James Dobson
2. Richard Fugate
3. Roy Lessin
4. Tedd Trip
5. Michael & Debbi Pearl

These people have done more to promote spanking than any other people, possibly in world history. Direct your guile at them and their supporters rather than me. They are doing much more to influence parents than I ever could.

Stephanie - posted on 10/29/2016

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Goodness Shawn (that's a mans name in England by the way). I thought I could rant, but I think you'll get the gold medal for that. Pity you've gone to all that effort for nothing, as never going to read. What would be the point, I'd only have to spend even more time trying force a few more drops of sense into your brain, and I've already spent quite enough time doing that.

Good luck, if you've got kids - really - I hope it goes well for you, but don't think for a minute you've got it all sussed for the world on just how to raise every kind of kid you'll find out there. To assume, you or any one person has just the right answers for every kid is simple arrogance.

Right, would you all stop squawking now, my ears are starting to ache....

Jodi - posted on 10/29/2016

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"I happen to find it quick and convenient compared to other sanctions"
Discipline should never merely be "quick and convenient". That's called lazy parenting. Appropriate discipline is hard work, but over the long term, results in well-rounded and well disciplined adults. People who take the "quick way out" of anything will never see long term success.

"YOU DENY THE NEED FOR THE MOST EFFECTIVE, POWERFULL SANCTION FOR A YOUNG CHILD."
Actually, there is PLENTY of research demonstrating it is the least effective sanction for a child. And I've done more research on topic of behaviour management than many. I'll warrant I've done a hell of a lot more than you have.

"Because of the tosh you believe - my friend is living in hell with a 12 yo daughter who punches him, insults him, and makes a sport of winding him up. Its not much fun for the mother or other kids either."
No, the reason his 12 year old can do this is EITHER because she has mental health issues (which may be very real and need intervention) OR because he is one of the many who think "Oh no, I can't spank my child, so that means no discipline at all". Seriously. The kids I see that have these issues, unless it is the result of mental health, are generally kids who get away with whatever they want because their parents are uneducated and have no idea how to discipline their children without hitting them because nobody has ever taught them otherwise. Alternatively, they are kids who are the result of spanking only households. I sat in a meeting just the other day watching a mother who I could see wanted to hit her kid but refrained because she was in public. Instead, she sat there and screamed at that child "you never do anything right, ever". I wanted to cry for that child because they were her tools. That's it. I am sure that child received a beating when he got home. And the way she spoke to that child is never acceptable either. There are so many other ways she could have handled that particular situation. Parents need tools - spanking doesn't raise well behaved children, discipline does. The problem, Stephanie, is that too many parents equate spanking with discipline, and without spanking in their toolbox, they have nothing.....and this is because they need to be better armed with the tools.

Personally (and professionally), I think parenting classes are not such a bad idea. We all go to them when we have our first baby because we fear the newborn and how we can possibly be great parents and meet their needs, but noone ever considers how to raise balanced children without violence.

I have managed to raise children to adulthood without needing to raise my hand to them (although I DID slap a hand or two as toddlers when going to hot pans in the kitchen). I know many people who have the skills to raise their children to be respectful and functional adults without having to use spanking as a primary form of discipline. Noone ever said it was easy - but you have yourself admitted it is quicker and easier, and this equates to lazy parenting.

Stephanie - posted on 10/29/2016

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Well -well, well. Talk about disturbing a hornets nest... Goodness, if I thought there was any benefit from thrashing this one out with you, I'd really have my work cut out, but I have more important things to spend my time on.
I must admit, it appears I made a bit of a mistake not looking at the line of small text at the top, hence the acrid comments and responses from this lovely little hate club we seem to have here. Well make the most of it now because I have no interest in wasting more time with people (excepting Jodi) who're not interested in genuine discussion and debate, but merely character assasination, and bigotry. This behaviour belongs in the school playground
Dove: Thanks alot for re-posting my sage comments/advice. Maybe if more parents applied them there wouldn't be so many brats blighting the life families up and down our respective lands. You, like most people riled by their passions, ad a thick layer of interpretation to the comments made. Were we to discuss what I really meant, or do, you'd probably find its notably less harsh or dramatic as you've assumed. I am not however going to waste my time explaining the details of exactly what I did and didn't mean to someone who has already nominated themselves judge, jury and executioner.
Jodi: I'm pretty sure I've seen a forum or thread dedicated the the debate about whether to spank or not, and that would be a more relevant and appropriate place to discuss this matter, add that others could contribute as well which would help balance the debate.
I ought to point out that this debate, and indeed my profile and comments, are all focused on one aspect of one subject about child rearing, being spanking in relation to discipline. There are of course other aspects to child rearing, particularly positive reinforcement, and I recognize spanking is not the only sanction an adult can use.
I happen to find it quick and convenient compared to other sanctions and believe it has its place in the disciplinary toolbox. As far as I was aware, was addressing an audience who also believed in spanking. Obviously my comments ended up infront of an audience that didn't, hence I got mobbed, and will shortly exit stage left....
Re' Michelle being a moderator; the 'point' you questioned was that if anyone on here is going to tell me what I can and can't say in such and such a place, about what others cant and cant say in such and such a place, it'll be someone who has the right to tell me what I can or can't say in such and such a place. Does that explain the point Jodi?
Shawn: 'an argumentative human'? - that's rich, given some of your earlier comments.
You & Dove: 'Purposely looked for posts on discipline' & 'sought out posts to brag about spanking'
I do not have to limit my viewing of posts and contributions on this sites to things that have only been posted recently. I have the right to search for posts that are most relevant to my situation, or experience - AND SO DOES EVEYBODY ELSE. To deny anyone the right to do that amounts to a kind of dictatorship. Who put you in charge of how people use this site!
As I exit this den of lions I leave a comment to all you who vilify parents who use spanking:
There are times when kids need a powerfull sanction, one that stops them in their tracks, makes an impression and rapidly changes behaviour without days and weeks of dancing around their sensibilities, dancing that loads the shoulders of parents who are already hard pressed for time. By denying the validity and place of spanking, YOU DENY THE NEED FOR THE MOST EFFECTIVE, POWERFULL SANCTION FOR A YOUNG CHILD.
Because of the tosh you believe - my friend is living in hell with a 12 yo daughter who punches him, insults him, and makes a sport of winding him up. Its not much fun for the mother or other kids either. Had this kids butt been roasted the 1st time she kicked-off at him, they wouldn't all be suffering now.
Because of the tosh you believe - another lady I know feels she mustn't take powerfull action needed when her 6 yo daughter screams and shouts at her beliously when she's unhappy with a request or situation that arises. If she does that now, what will she do when she's a teen?
Because of the tosh you believe - thousands of households up and down our lands are dominated by little tin-pot dictators who believe the world should revolve around them, and blight the lives of their parents, siblings and peers.
What these brats NEED (Jodi), is a damn good hiding or two to put them in their place, but because of your doctrines of tosh, too many parents are afraid to give them what they need, so eveyone suffers now, and later when they become egotistical gits.
Its time you measured the true weight of denying society the sanction of spanking, against the modest and fleeting bit of pain a spanking causes at the time. A little pain now, saves everybody alot of pain later.

I have spoken..... Finito

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/28/2016

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Stephanie, this is NOT the pro spanking page, and no one is "slagging" you...whatever that is supposed to mean.

You have made a choice. You choose to physically assault your kids and call that discipline. Stop trying to get us to validate that for you, because honestly, it has been scientifically proven that assault in the name of discipline does cause problems. If you don't like what we are saying, that's fine. No one said you had to like it, but you seem to have purposely looked for posts on discipline, no matter how old, so that you can pop in and advocate abuse. Therefore, the presumption that you are bragging about it.

Oh, and the use of an implement, such as wooden spoon, etc, DEFINITELY moves it into the abuse arena, so don't even start with that.

Furthermore, stop trying to tell us you use other methods as well as assault. You OWN WORDS say that you prefer spanking, because (paraphrasing here) you don't want to be bothered with the parenting required to use other methods.

Again I say THIS IS NOT THE PRO SPANKING FORUM. you don't get to dictate a damned thing here, either. You are an argumentative human who cannot seem to understand what you are being told. Posts advocating abuse of another human are NOT ok!!!!!!

Michelle - posted on 10/28/2016

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Yes, I am a moderator for the welcome page which is where you are posting. That's why the others were telling you to go to the pro spanking communities.
What difference does me being a moderator make? If you look at the front page then you will see me listed there so it's not a secret.
Maybe you need to watch where you are posting before getting on the defensive. Like the other ladies have said though, you went searching for this post as it was 6 months old when you started posting in it. There is no need to be bringing up old posts just to get your pro spanking views across.

Jodi - posted on 10/28/2016

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Yeah, Dove pulled out your words. Looks like violence towards a child to me.

Do you have some kind of psychology degree and trauma training? No....I didn't think so. So please don't tell me what challenging kids need or do not need, nor about the studies not showing clear overall links. Most of those challenging children simply lack consistent discipline and have shitty home lives, it has nothing to do with spanking, except if you count too much spanking and violence in the home. I repeat: NO CHILD NEEDS SPANKING. It is a choice you are making, so stop pretending it isn't.

And Michelle is actually a moderator for this forum, so.......your point?

Dove - posted on 10/28/2016

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By the way... THIS post you are replying to right now is not the pro-spanking forum... it's the Welcome to Circle of Moms forum which you can clearly see at the top of this post...

All communities > WELCOME TO CIRCLE OF MOMS!! > Any suggestions on discipline methods for a 4 year old

That's what it says (well, the caps was my own addition). Learn where you are posting before you post. ;)

Dove - posted on 10/28/2016

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I made zero assumptions... I read your OWN WORDS... copied and pasted since either you don't understand the disgustingness of what you said... or you don't remember you said all that. SICK!!!

Dove - posted on 10/28/2016

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*I also use a paddle, one that delivers a good sting without too much effort. I can spank calmly methodically and easily and still roast her butt.

*Things may have improved since this post was written, but if not, and if you give any credence to your sister's opinion you may well need to spank her more. Kids don't always behave the same infront of another adult, so your daughter could well be acting up more when she's with your sister. I suggest you give her a second spanking when she comes home for a while to ensure she gets a strong message that this Jeckyl and Hyde behaviour is unacceptable. (a post about an 11 year old... )

*I'd also recommend a paddle similar to the one mentioned by Ms Chenery. Mine's made or rubber, which is even more efficient at delivering the message.

*Sandra V B has a very good system. The key principle being that there is a price to pay for bad behaviour, an essential thing for any household or organisation to maintain order. In this case each mis-deed earns a few smacks I think. Of course there can be other sanctions, but like many on here, I prefer spanking.

*If it looks like the message hasn't sunk in properly I opt to give another spanking, but longer and maybe harder too. I much prefer spanking to other punishments, which require alot more supervision, or long-faces and grumpiness that go on for ages. A quick spanking, wham-bam, and it's all over. The whinging and mopiness dissapates quicker too. Its like pressing the reset button on a frozen computer.

*Yes, I agree with that line of thinking. Regular spankings keep up the childs awareness of maintaining good behaviour, which to easily slips away without frequent reminders. Leave a kid any length of time without a disciplinary challenge to their behaviour, and their behaviour will gradually deteriorate. For pre-teens this deterioration can begin after just a few days, depending on their temprement. I recommend at least one spanking a week for pre-teens to keep them in check. When you choose to give that spanking is a matter of good judgement, but if it's serving as a reminder about behaviour, the llevel of misbehaviour that earns it is secondary.

*I measure my spankings in minutes rather than smacks or strokes. The duration and pace varies considerably but the majority last at least 5 mins.

Stephanie - posted on 10/28/2016

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Genuine question - are you a moderator?

I have not 'told', as in ordered, anyone to move the debate with me elsewhere.
I did point out that there are more relevant groups and threads for holding a discussion on the rights and wrongs of spanking.
I was also considering the needs and interests of Ashley W, who started the thread, which seems to have been forgotten by others.
Also; I thought this thread was just on the pro-spanking forum. Is it on others? If so, that might explain why it's attracted the indignation of objectors to spanking.
In relation to the tone and manner of some of the responses to my posts, I drawer your and their attention to rule or point 5, on the terms for this particular forum.

Michelle - posted on 10/28/2016

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Stephanie: You can't tell people where they can post responses, this is an open forum and everyone has just as much as you do to post here.
The ladies have said that on the welcome page, you won't get people agreeing that spanking is the best way to discipline a child. There are pro spanking communities within CoM's that will agree with you 100%.
I agree with the other ladies though, spanking is abuse. Where I live it's an offense to strike another person, it's called assault, why should it be different for children who can't defend themselves? At least if an adult is trying to hit another adult, it's an even fight and the person being assaulted has a chance, a child doesn't. Where I live, it is an offense to hit a child though and I'm glad!
I have 2 very strong willed children and I have never spanked them. Yes, there have been challenging times but they are growing in to very well mannered young adults. They don't fear me, they respect me like they should.

Stephanie - posted on 10/28/2016

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Dove & Shawn. You are both making ALOT of assumptions, and ignoriingpoint 5. of the code of conduct for this forum (Prospanking)-. This is not a forum, or a website for slagging people off who have a different opinion to you.

There are also more appropriate threads for discussing the more general question about the validity of spanking for correction. Maybe you both had some pretty awfull experiences when you grew up, maybe your parents whacked you violently - if so you'd have my sympathy and understanding, but railing at parents who have found sensible spanking helps keep some semblance of order at home, is not the way to purge you're demons.

To finalize:
Shawn: Your earlier point about restraining a young child (via legs), indicates excessive spanking over-looks the fact that a kid that age may well struggle before you've even laid down the 1st smack. Also, with a jostling child their is an increased risk the smacks would land at the verge of the back, or hips, instead of the safest, fleshiest area. This is particularly relevant for a parent using an implement like a wooden spoon or hairbrush (on an older child), and many do.

Dove: The point about only being on here to brag about spanking is erroneous in this case. Again, alot of assuming is going on here. I use more than one forum to discuss a range of issues including ADHD, Autism, Mental Health, and drug addiction, I just happen to use this one for this subject. Don't judge others either because I know some have been going through a particularly difficult period with their kid(s), and be focused on the spanking issue, for that reason.

Jodi: I do not advocate violence towards kids. Violence means striking with substantial force - I do not advocate that. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that no kid needs spanking, and I suggest that some of those challenging kids you work with would become alot less challenging if their bottoms been tanned a few times, and those around them would breathe a sigh of relief.
Just because somethings not popular, doesn't mean it doesn't work. As far as I'm aware the larger studies on the long-term effects of spanking do not show any clear overall link between childhood spanking and behavioural problems later on.

I appreciate there are some strong feelings about this subject, and I understand that, but again, please take this discussion to another thread, or group, or start a new one. I'd be happy to slug it out there. I think Ashley W wanted constructive advice, not a slagging match.

Jodi - posted on 10/27/2016

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Actually, Stephanie, no child NEEDS spanking. Spanking is a choice you have made, not something you need to do, so stop with the bullshit excuses. Also, there is evidence that violence begets violence. if you choose violent methods to discipline your child (holding them down to spank them, for example), than you are simply role modeling a negative behaviour. ALL children can be disciplined without spanking, no matter how challenging. Do you know what the greatest issue is with children who are challenging? Lack of consistency in the discipline. It has nothing to do with spanking. Stop hitting kids. It is a form of bullying.

Edited to add: yes, I DO work with challenging children and I would NEVER advocate spanking them. Because it is ineffective and unnecessary.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/27/2016

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Ah, the usual"it's different for adults" crap.

Bullshit. Assault is assault. Assault by a larger, older person is part of the definition of a bully.

We get it, you parent with physical force. Go back to the pro spanking page, where, as I said, you will find plenty of like minded folks that you can share all of the ways you assault and abuse (not to mention humiliate) your kids.

Dove - posted on 10/27/2016

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Oh sick... I just went to her profile. Yep... she's one of those that only posts about whacking her kid... detailed and disgusting.

Dove - posted on 10/27/2016

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Only read the first 'newest' comment and I have to respond... gotta love it when the psycho child abusers bump up old posts to brag about whacking their kids. @@

Lady... this post is 5 months old and you had to go looking for it to find it... which means you sought out a post to brag about spanking. Take that pathetic crap to the pro-spanking board where it belongs... and leave us actual parents alone.

Stephanie - posted on 10/27/2016

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I'm not going to have a protracted argument with you over this - not at this hour (2.14am UK). I have heard these arguments before, e.g. you wouldn't strike an adult, so why do it to a child. You are failing to recognize that most adults have alot more control over themselves than kids - in my case, even when drunk.
Maybe you have seen kids get worse who weren't spanked in the right way, or were simply kids that required a different approach. Not every kid needs spanking to put them on the right track, but by the same token, some certainly do.
I suspect if you have read as many posts as I have from as many parents as I have, you will find plenty who breathed a sigh of relief when judicious spanking bought peace to their home from kids who'd become unmanageable.
I'm not going to spend all night trying to convince you spanking is ONE legitimate way to deal with pre-teen misbehavoiur. If you and others have found/seen non physical methods work that's fine, but don't get on your high-horse and tear strips off parents who have found spanking has been effective with their kids.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/27/2016

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You said to physically restrain the child...which indicates excessive "spanking".

I have seen the most defiant child respond positively to non abusive approaches, and I have only witnessed defiant children become more defiant with spankings, discipline should be done with love. Why do you advocate hitting a child, when you would NEVER allow another adult to assault you if you do something wrong?

Let's see...you go to the bar, get inebriated, and get excessively obnoxious. Your spouse slaps you to "make an impression" because your behaviour is unacceptable. Do you allow that? Or do you press charges? It is no different than what you are saying, really, except that you, as an adult, are also physically larger and more intimidating to a 4 year old, which is part of the definition bully.

You want validation for your methods? Go to the pro spanking page, where there are plenty of abuse advocates that will validate your advice.

Stephanie - posted on 10/27/2016

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Shawnn. Glad to hear you're alternative methods worked with your kids - and I emphasize 'your kids' there. Every kid is different - some are strong-willed, defiant, disruptive, and a real handful. Other kids are quite calm and compliant. Of course all kids will fool around a bit, especially at 4yo.
I'm sure there are at least as many parents who will testify to a great improvement with their kid(s), after effective spankings were given. Infact, I suspect a good deal more as vice-versa.
For me this isn't about anyone being proved right or wrong - as far as I'm concerned both approaches work, and which one works best for a certain child may only be established through trial and error. Best to start with non-physical punishments, but if that makes little or no difference, its time to look at other options, including spanking.
As for the abuse point, I was not advocating giving any 4 year old a merciless protracted beating. Infact I made no suggestion about the number of smacks - only that
it needs to make an impression, meaning, to be effective.
Bare in mind also that this group is for those who for one reason or another use spanking as at least one tool in their disciplinary toolbox, and I hazard a guess that many of those will be parents of children who display alot of challenging behaviour.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/27/2016

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Oh, and by the way, I stopped physically disciplining my kids when the eldest was 4, and the youngest 1.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/27/2016

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Oh, yeah SIT ON YOUR KID SO THE WILL HOLD STILL TO BE ABUSED!!!! LMAO!!!!

common sense parenting works SO MUCH BETTER than abuse! How do I know? I WAS the parent that Stephanie f is now, and found that, once I stopped beating my kids and started COMMUNICATING, my discipline issues were gone.

Consequences for poor behaviour have much better results than abuse. Does your child have favorite things? Then there is a consequence. If child misbehaves, you confiscate a favorite toy for a time, that they can earn back with proper behaviour, for example. Your child is beyond the age where a pop on the butt is effective, unless you, like those pro spankers that have replied, want to physically abuse your child.

Stephanie - posted on 10/26/2016

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Four is old enough for a modest spanking, which needs to be firm enough to make an impression. Be prepared for the kid to jostle and kick their legs. Best thing is to put one leg over both of his or hers, to anchor them down. Alternatively put them over the end of a bed or couch. Look for the spankwithlove website, they have a good section on positions and methods.

Dove - posted on 05/18/2016

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Discipline is simply teaching your child how they should behave and why they should behave that way. Exact how you approach this depends on different situations you are having.

Spanking is absolutely the WORST method to use... and it's not a discpline method... it's a punishment. Discipline seeks to teach the child how to behave and why (like I mentioned) and punishment seeks to... well, punish the child for their wrong doings. Punishment can sometimes be a part of discipline, but it doesn't HAVE to be. While you do need consequences... I never intentionally set out to make my children feel bad about themselves.

Not saying I never spanked... because I did... but I did so because I was WRONG... no other reason. And please never, ever listen to anyone that brags about spanking. I don't know why any decent parent would ever brag about the pain and humiliation they inflict upon their children. Yes, I've upset my children when necessary, but I've never been PROUD of them being upset. I'm not a sick freak.

Mani - posted on 05/18/2016

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Hi, please give following details about the 4 year old:
4 year old is a boy or girl? Body growth and mischiefs doing by him or her.what is the necessity for a discipline? At present are you disciplining him or her? If so give me the details. I am ,53 a veteran spanker spanking 6 children including teen aged girls and a boy. Feel free to ask my advise.

Jodi - posted on 05/18/2016

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It depends on what the 4 year old is doing. Different things will require different solutions.

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