baby vaccines... how harmful are they really?

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Susan - posted on 02/21/2011

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Please don't listen to well meaning people who don't know the scientific research. I work with autistic students of whom many of them have never had a vaccine and are still autistic. Please vaccinate your children. I know two people who suffered from polio. Let's not bring these diseases back. Good Luck, I know making these decisions are difficult, but do it for the good of your baby

Charlie - posted on 02/18/2011

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Less harmful than the pain and suffering leading up to death of things like whooping cough .....less painful than knowing you passed it onto a baby who was too young to receive protection and died as a result .

Nikki - posted on 02/18/2011

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A hell of a lot less harmful than watching your child die of a preventable disease. Or infecting other defenceless babies and children who are unable to be vaccinated due to age or medical restrictions

Kimberly - posted on 02/18/2011

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I recently read a story in a parenting mag about how a family lost there new born to whooping cough because people where they lived dint think they 'needed' to vacanate there kids. I totally believe in vacanating my daughter not only for her safety but also for the safety of babies she might be around that are to young to get some of the vaccines. I would hate to think my child was the reason some else lost there's

Kate CP - posted on 02/19/2011

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Vaccines contain chicken embryo as a growth medium. They don't use eggs or oils to "stretch" a vaccine. They use them to grow the virus or bacteria that the vaccine is made of.

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[deleted account]

Tabitha ohh the flu shot my doctor recommended i get it one year because i had been sick and was underweight so i got it done at the end of march and in august i had the flu fat lotta help that did. and yes i do realise that it was probably a different strain to the one i has vaccinated against

Tabitha - posted on 03/22/2011

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I don't like the S1N1 vacine and I will not giive it to my children or the flu shots....

[deleted account]

Amber - have you ever had the chicken pox? i have. guess what it never leaves your system once you get it you have it for life and at times can break out into shingles when you have the slightest bit of stress...then of course you have to take time off work cos you have shingles and are contagious the you go back to work get stressed take more time off...get fired cos you're always sick and its always going to happen...other people have different triggers and sometimes its hard to find the trigger its mainly stress for most people. its not pleasant being delirious as a child with 40+ temps (centigrade i have no idea on Fahrenheit) you get itchy miserable and while yes most survive there are a few who get it internally and thats where problems start. so before you right off chicken pox do some research on the disease while it may seem harmless if your children get it they can be up for a life time of getting shingles



note to add - shingles are a lot more worse than chicken pox and the death rate is very high and even if you don't get chicken pox as a child you leave yourself open to shingles

A - posted on 03/22/2011

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I am having to decide currently as well. Growing up my family did not have vaccinations and my sister who is a chiropractor did not vaccinate her 3 children but has found problem and hassle with the school system in MI (small town) it all depends on where you live. My newborn was giving the hep B vaccine in the ICU ( we do not remembering approving this and thought it was because he had to have it) and we gave him the follow up shot when he was 7 weeks at doc reccomendation because he had the first here in Philly and honestly she sort of made me feel that I would be allowing him to get sick otherwise. I know that may seem ignorant to say as we made the decision and signed the paper but let me explain... going on doc words since he was now 7 weeks old and 12 lbs he was in a much better position than the first (only days old and under 7lbs) and he had no adverse reaction only days old. Of course the doctor said there is no statiscal reporting of the link to MS and any reports have been dismissed but I wanted to research further. This is now what I have to share... these reporting agencies (VAERS-made by the CDC and FDA) will report what will best suit the 800 million annual that they intake from profits of vaccines that is obvious. We as mothers should take the extra time to thoroughly read into what we can about what is going into our babies. I am not a doctor therefore I do believe some vaccines may be neccesary in circumstances and by no means do I discredit those situations. But I too agree vaccines for flu and chicken pox are overboard most have had the chicken pox and a flu and made it through without a vaccine. Additionally the Hep B virus is contracted through unprotected sex with an infected person, infected mother at birth and IV drug users...newborns is no where to be found on that list. The idea of a Hep B epedemic is only hypothetical but I say my baby's health is not. Furthermore it is stated that Engerix-B can lead to CNS inflamatory demyelination in infant males which scares me to death as my son received this vaccine... had I known boys were more at risk I would have had a stronger argument to disregard this vaccine but this was found no where on the information I received in teh doctor's office before he was given the shot. It is also said that the Public Health System is phasing engerix B out because of its thiomersal content (mercury). Many arguments are that newborns are not high risk to contract the virus and there is no link as to why this was made mandatory for all newborns in 1991, also it is argued that the adverse reactions are not being accurately reported and that most often SIDS is the diagnosis wether or not the death is following vacinations. I am going to research the other vaccines, however, I am interested in hearing more opinions on this specific vaccine and others. Respectfully Amber

Paula - posted on 03/13/2011

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When I was a child, we didn't have any vaccines until I started school, then we got the polio on the sugar cube first, then the shot later. I had all the childhood diseases that are now covered by immunizations. I was lucky and had no complications from Mumps Measles or Chicken pox. I know people who are handicapped from getting polio. I know people who lost their hearing from measles. I think the shots are safer than not having them. I'm telling you that if you have those new spiral light bulbs in your house because you are trying to save energy, then you are in more danger of getting mercury poisoning from them than from some vaccine.(mercury used to be the reason people gave for not getting their children immunized)

Amy - posted on 03/07/2011

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I agree with a lot of the other posts...I would rather vaccinate my children than have them stricken with a life-threatening fatal disease. I look at how long vaccinations have been around...why all of a sudden is it an issue now?

Charlie - posted on 03/06/2011

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I am always suprised at how people cannot understand it ISNT the vaccinated children we are worried about it is the rest of the community , the small babies too young to vaccinate , the elderly , the children who have REAL medical reasons to not vaccinate like allergies to the vaccine , people with immune disorders .

But I guess that is the difference , people who vaccinate think about the WHOLE picture not just how it affects us as one family unit , it is about the community .

[deleted account]

"@ Mandie I suggest you have this debate with people who choose not to vaccinate their kids! If your allopathic vaccines work so well then why are you so worried, like you said your kids are immune."

@Julia- ***SIGH**** Clearly I am not worried about my OWN children's immunity but those of others, which I think WAS my original point. I had loads more to say but Kate Capeheart has expressed what I wanted to say really well, as per below.

Kate CP - posted on 03/06/2011

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Uh...don't know who's telling you those are normal reactions but they're not. A "normal" reaction to a vaccine is redness and swelling at the injection site and a low-grade fever that can last up to 48 hours. Vomiting, high fever (especially one lasting more than 48 hours), and seizures are considered serious reactions to a vaccine and require immediate medical care. Children who have reactions like that to a vaccine SHOULDN'T be vaccinated on the normal schedule as most children and you SHOULD consult your doctor about an alternate vaccine schedule OR skipping some vaccines outright.

Julia, I don't blame you for not wanting to put your daughter through that again. But at the same time I have to point out that unless you've have her titers tested and seen that her body is producing the proper antibodies to the pathogens you're using the "natural vaccines" for...she isn't immune to them. I'm not saying that you SHOULD choose traditional vaccination methods (as you have in the past and she's had a bad reaction to them) but I *AM* saying that you may be putting for money and effort into a method that isn't going to produce any meaningful results for you or your daughter.

Laura - posted on 03/06/2011

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Julia- My nephew had the same reaction with his first immunization. He stayed sick and cried constantly for a whole week. It was scary and they were also told that it was a normal reaction.

[deleted account]

Excuse me. You say "Julia I really think you're the narrow minded one to me it seems you haven't considered anything but natural immunisation"
This is totally in-correct. My daughter had her 2 months vaccination and a few hours after she came down with a 39 degree temp, I rang the hospital and they said that this was extremely normal, i asked them how long this ould last and they replied "up to three days is normal" about half an hour after contacting the hospital she started vomitting till she couldn't breath and she wouldnt stop crying then she started screaming at the top of the lungs. This was so scary, my little 2 month old baby was screaming till she couldnt breath. She started convulsing scariest moment of my life! When it stopped we took her straight to hospital they said thst it was normal and quite common, i couldn't believe that they thought this wasnt anything to be scared or alarmed about. She recovered from her high temp and vomitting but I wittnessed how her behaviour changed. She became really irratible snd did not sleep in the day at all! Worst bit was her head growth slowed right down. You could see in the graph in her blue book, normal healthy head circumference until the 2 month mark. (prior to this she was a extremely calm heathly baby)
I live in Aus too, i am aware of the imunisation scheme. Still dont understand where you said "those who use natural immunisation pay for it with our left kidney and right lung" sorry but this metaphor seemed slightly narrow-minded to me.

[deleted account]

Julia - i see my doctor for free so any amount of money to see someone for something is too much especially when i don't get a lot of money because i don't have a full time job yet

[deleted account]

Umm yes $400 is quite expensive i dont know why it it that much, I woulsd say that it is more time consuming than anything. I'm lucky that I have a really good reputable naturopath in my area. It has cost me $90 including medicine. Yes it does cost around about $80 to see her if my daughter gets sick bit that is only 30 more than a doctors consultation.

[deleted account]

it expensive they don't get it for free like a regular vaccine and in australia the government does not recognise natural immunisation therefore in the national immunisation scheme those who use natural immunisation won't be getting money at their child's 18 months and 4 years immunisations...Julia I really think you're the narrow minded one to me it seems you haven't considered anything but natural immunisation...at least i explored both options and decided id rather have an mmr vaccine that didn't work that was free than pay for something that might not work anyway

[deleted account]

I dont really care if you doubt that they work. So in Australia you say "those who use natural immunisation get nothing and pay for their vaccines with their left kidney AND they're right lung"- can you please explain this.

[deleted account]

Julia- Australia...but i'm seriously doubting that you know how they work and its not like i wouldn't click on a link proving how they work cos they would...all my research has indicated that it does NOT work



Edit: I might add that i researched natural immunisation because my doctor whispered in my ear after i found out my mmr vaccine had failed that i should try it...he didn't agree with it but he suggested it may work i read the pamphlet he gave me called a lady who did it in my area as i as still unsure after reading a fair few articles on the internet i had a consultation with her she answered all my questions but I still wasn't convinced it worked and the kicker was the $400 price tag...im a single mother i cant afford that plus extra costs for a blood test to see if it worked and my health insurance doesn't cover it and neither does medicare so it would all be out of my pocket and i really can't afford it as i would rather take my medication for my chronic pain and PND than waste it on something that might not work

[deleted account]

There is also no point in submitting evidence to someone who says (before reading the material) that homoeopathy can’t possibly work.

[deleted account]

@ Mandie I suggest you have this debate with people who choose not to vaccinate their kids! If your allopathic vaccines work so well then why are you so worried, like you said your kids are immune.
@ sarah
"those who use natural immunisation get nothing and pay for their vaccines with their left kidney AND they're right lung"
all I can say to that is narrow mindedness.

http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/art...

[deleted account]

Jodi - it's simple they won't explain how it works because either they don't know how it does...or it doesn't. im going with the latter because everything i know about the homeopathic way indicates it doesn't...so much so that in the back of my son's health record book it states quite clearly with a big circle and a page all on its own "There is no research to suggest that natural immunisation works" and as dodgy as Queensland health is at times I'd have to believe them on that...and real vaccination doesn't cost a cent so it's a win win for me



Edit: in fact after my son's 18 month vacs and after his 5 year old vacs the government will PAY ME! just for getting my child vaccinated with a real vaccine...those who use natural immunisation get nothing and pay for their vaccines with their left kidney AND they're right lung

Kate CP - posted on 03/02/2011

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Vaccines don't have fillers. Vaccines contain other ingredients aside from the pathogen being injected to keep the vaccine shelf stable and potent. There is nothing put in vaccines to "stretch" the amount of vaccine-that would make them less effective. If more vaccine is needed then more is made.

Jodi - posted on 03/02/2011

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Laura, you seriously believe a site that states "We now have many children who can die just by driving by a bakery making peanut butter cookies. I personally know of a child who could die if she smell fish cooking. And it is becoming extremely common. Parents are buying peanut-sniffing dogs so their children can leave the house!"????



Sorry, but that information is a TOTAL myth. It is not possible to have a true allergic reaction from the smell of peanuts.....it is the protein in the peanut that triggers the allergic reaction, and there IS not protein in the scent. Therefore, impossible. You'd think someone credible would know that.



I wouldn't believe a damn thing that website published after reading that crap. So you go ahead and believe their conspiracy theories, but I find it laughable.

Laura - posted on 03/02/2011

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to Amanda Winter,

I have immunized my children. I am cautious though to see their reactions. I personally know of cases where the immunization caused sever, and life-long problems.

Yes, you can get the shots one at a time, however each shot is still a cocktail of different immunizations.

Also, you can have your children attend school without being immunized. It requires a lot of paper work, but it is possible.

I do believe it is important to protect our children from these preventable illnesses. But really, we have to wonder why the government pushes new vaccines more now than they ever have. The H1N1 and flu shot trends are too suspicious for me.

also here's just one of many websites where you can read up on vaccine fillers..http://www.whale.to/vaccine/peanut_oil.h...

Jodi - posted on 02/28/2011

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Why is there no point in explaining how it works? As I have said, all my research indicates that they are not as effective as regular vaccines, and I have a total understanding of how regular vaccines work. If your homeopathic vaccines don't work that way, I am curious as to HOW it is they do work.

[deleted account]

And I cant speak for other but yes i have checked my children's immunity to what they have been vaccinated for.

[deleted account]

@Julia my point was that although I am sure there are pharamceutical companies doing the wrong thing (and loads more that are not!) we cant afford to write off all non-alternative healthcare b/c of the minority of wrong-doers; to illustrate my point I used the example of a Dr doing wrong and how that wouldnt necessarily make us write of ALL Dr's- which I'm sorry, seems to be what you are saying. And actually you are pushing your views. And as I said earlier this is a topic which does NOT just affect your family so others do have the right to question your choice here where they might not with any other parenting choices you make.

[deleted account]

It doesnt work like that and i dont see the point explaining it, what good would that do cause basically everyone on here is pro allopathic vaccines. Would get your child tested after having the allopathic shots? I bet you would say something like 'no because i know they would be immune so what would be the point', Well thats my answer.

Jodi - posted on 02/28/2011

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@ Julia, you still haven't answered the question about how you know your children are immune, and whether you have had them tested for immunity. Please see my posts above.....

[deleted account]

@ Mandie I am familiar about Dr Jayant Patel as I remember reading all about it when it happened, I also live is Aus. Not sure exactly what it has to do with this topic. I did not crucify any Dr's for wanting to make a living! I was having a go at pharmaceutical companys because it is just my veiw that I as a person dont trust them. Not to say that I dont believe in vaccines and there efficacy. All i was saying is there are others ways to vaccinate. This is my point of veiw and I am not pushing it on anyone or making them feel bad for chosing otherwise, ok. Also I dont recall implying that I wouldnt give my child medical care because of fear she may recieve ill practice.

@ Amanda, well said. I dont doubt anyones choice that they have made for their family either,

Jennifer - posted on 02/27/2011

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The way I see it, is that my child has a much higher chance of comming in contact with a life threatening disease than they do having a severe reaction to the vaccine. If something bad happened to one of my kids, because of a vaccine, I would feel absolutely horrible, but also know that I was doing everything in my power to keep them healthy. If my child got seriously ill or died from a disease that I could have prevented, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. Doctors go to school for many years. They are human and of course are going to make mistakes, but I trust my kids' pediatrition's advice over my own, because I didn't go to school, and I don't know the answers like she does.

Kath - posted on 02/27/2011

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That is really a question that you need to determine for your child. Dr. Sears has a great book out to help you research, and your own familiy's medical history needs to be considered. Remember that breastfeeding is a baby's first defense against disease, and a great start for health overall. Good luck with your research!

[deleted account]

And exactly right ladies, kids who are prone to febrile convulsions do NOT just get them from an adverse reaction to a drug/ vaccine. ANY illness whose sysptoms include fever can produce febrile convulsions.in particularly prone individuals.

[deleted account]

Well said Amanda (and Kate) but the problem is this issue dosent JUST affect one's own family, it is- whether we like it or not- a whole community issue.

Amanda - posted on 02/26/2011

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there are good points on both sides of this argument. I live in Canada and i trust that the vaccines my kids receive are safe and not tainted or 'filled'. They have never had a bad reaction to any vaccine other than a bad tantrum. So I choose to get my kids vaccinated. It is our jobs as parents to weigh the options as well as pros and cons for both. I believe i have made the right choice for my family, and dont doubt anyone elses choice for their family.

Amanda - posted on 02/26/2011

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some children may be prone to the seizures but it is still the reaction from the vaccines, not the vaccines themselves. And the vaccines are not the only thing that can trigger those reactions. The diseases themselves can cause brain damage, fever, seizures etc as well.

Kate CP - posted on 02/26/2011

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The idea that vaccines can cause autism was twisted from the fact that the FEVER some kids get in response to the vaccines can trigger the autistic gene. But your child either has the gene for it or they don't. And if you give the child tylenol or advil, and keep an eye on them to make sure their fever doesnt get too high then they should be fine.


This is not entirely correct...some children are prone to febrile seizures which can cause brain damage. However, no one really knows for certain what causes autism. So there is still no link between ANYTHING and autism.

[deleted account]

Ok, thanks for your candour Sarah. I must say it seemed unlikely to me that the WHO would be 'in on' a scam.

[deleted account]

Mandie - it has been found out that she has fabricated the truth and that indeed she was just looking for a newsworthy story sad that someone in my family would do that but the Austrian/German side of the family aren't exactly trust worthy

Amanda - posted on 02/26/2011

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The idea that vaccines can cause autism was twisted from the fact that the FEVER some kids get in response to the vaccines can trigger the autistic gene. But your child either has the gene for it or they don't. And if you give the child tylenol or advil, and keep an eye on them to make sure their fever doesnt get too high then they should be fine.

@ Elsa- in Canada we wait until the babies are 2 months old before they get their first shots, so i think you are wise in letting him 'firm up' before vaccinating him.

[deleted account]

And Sarah- can you tell us the truth of the matter- I personally dont trust every little thing I read- esp online- but you would be 'the horse's mouth' as it were?

[deleted account]

And also on point about the big bad pharma companies- you may recall I mentioned we're not crucifying Dr's for wanting to make a living as well? Google Dr Jayant Patel- he was a surgeon here in Queensland, Australia who killed and maimed several people due to his incompetence. This is not an uncommon situation as almost any nurse or healthcare professional can tell you- we have all worked with some scary-stupid Dr's. So are you not going to give your child medical care on the off-chance that you might get one of these fools? It's not right and it shouldnt happen in any capacity where people's lives and health are in question, bu realistically that IS life- we cant bubble wrap our kids or anyone else against things that MIGHT happen- or we might never leave the house.

[deleted account]

Julia i could live with it knowing i did all i could to try and stop them from getting a preventable disease. and I know all about Jane Bürgermeister she's my second cousin.

[deleted account]

Yes actually Julia I COULD live with it- depite the guilt-mongering of anti-vaccination movements. Do you know why? B/c I'd rather know that it was a RARE reaction that came about from something I did in good faith, in an effort to protect my child; than to know I did NOTHING to protect my child and they got sick anyway. B/c as Jodi and Kate have pointed out- unless you have had your child's titers checked you DO NOT KNOW that your child is immunised- and would that not be blind faith as well?? And it also amounts to nothing despite your good intentions, if the child is not actually immune. I actually find that question really offensive b/c it's no different- IMO- than asking would I have been able to live with it if my children had been born disabled- there are just as many things that can go wrong during gestation- that ALSO would not have been my fault. And actually I would find it even HARDER to live with someone else child's illness or death due to what I would see as my own negligence and selfishness. But that's just me. And for your information I have had that crippling fear each and every time my children have had a vaccination- you might have read the part where I said I do actually know some children who have had severe reactions. But b/c I realise the world is bigger than just me and my children and that some of these diseases can ONLY be irradicated if we work as a community, it's a risk I'm prepared to take. Do YOU realise that your children could end up with the exact reactions you are allegedly seeking to avoid IF they contract these diseases?? As for the 'big pharma' point, I have actually done some research- as I mentioned I am a nurse- the facts are though that even with some cases like you have mentioned, the MAJORITY are not evil, child-killing maniacs and I think it's paranoid to thnk otherwise. But as you said, we are ALL entitled to our opinions- which the OP asked for and I as I said, I dont feel anyone has the right to think they live in a bubble and that things like this wont impact others.

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2011

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The reason I ask is because everything I have read has indicated that while they are a valid alternative for those who have reactions to the traditional vaccines, there IS not proof that they are something that should generally be used in lieu of medical vaccinations, and that homeopathic vaccines show a fairly high failure rate.

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2011

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Just out of curiosity, Julia, have you had your children checked for their immunity? A simple blood test can usually test to see that they have immunity for the diseases for which you are homeopathically vaccinating them for, so I am interested in knowing if their immunity shows up in these tests, and if you haven't had them tested, how you can be sure they are, in fact, immune?

[deleted account]

You could also ask yourself if you could live with your child having a severe reaction to a vaccine knowing it could of been prevented? At least i immunise my daughter in a other way, where some people chose not do do anything at all. People will always have different veiws and thats fine, I am doing what is best for my daughter, and homeoprophylaxis is the alternate way of vaccinating my baby as i will not ever in my life time give her another shot!! And if you are jack of big parma and dont think that they are that bad maybe you should check the story out about Austrian journalist Jane Bürgermeister..

[deleted account]

I dont normally wade into debates circumcision, breasfeeding and other parental hot topics such as this- but this one I do and I unashamedly become bombastic about it- why? Because all those other topics are none of my business with respect to what others do with their children. HOWEVER what others do as far as immunisation IS my business b/c it potentially affects my children too. So that said- here's my 2 cents.

Yes some children have been affected- some very badly by vaccines and that is a tragedy- I even know some personally. BUT it didnt stop me vaccinatiing my children after doing my own research. Why? B/c as a mother I want to do what I can to protect mine and others' children from the horrors of these diseases- b/c I ALSO saw the other side of the argument as a nurse- when I have nursed older folks who were not vaccinated (generally prior to most of these vaccines being readily availble) and suffered these illnesses AND their long-term effects. And yes some vaccines dont ';work' immediately- the process is called sero-conversion and again I have had some personal experience- for many years I could not seroconvert for Hep B- kind of a problem as both a nurse and a Police Officer- but with persistence, some 15 vaccines and the last one a double vaccine, my Dr and I got there. I chose to do this so as not to put my family at risk due to my higher incidence of exposure to Hp B. And also just btw for those that think their children are at less risk of Hep B- think again- do some research. And you can argue til the cows come home that putting 'chemicals' into your child has the potential to be harmful- OF COURSE it does, ANYTHING we put into our children including food COULD harm them- bu are we going to stop kids eating incase they have a reaction?? And just btw almost everything is technically 'chemical' if you understand the laws of matter- i.e the 'chemical' makeup of water is hydrogen and oxygen- both technically 'chemicals'- so to me that is a redundant point. And I'm jack of the 'big pharma' argument too- no one is denying pharmaceutical companies want to make money- so do Dr's but do we crucify them?? But I highly doubt those who work for them are lying in bed at night thinking up deliberately harmful schemes- why? B/c they would get their asses sued off and lose their companies and g to jail and I'm guessing most pharam CEO's are not up for that kind of carry-on. Really.

At the end of the day- as others have said- ask yourself if you could live with it if yours or someone else's child die from a preventable illness b/c of a lack of vaccine? I couldnt but perhaps that's b/c I have seen more than enough children die.

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