CIO - baby fussing during routine??

Wendy - posted on 05/09/2011 ( 55 moms have responded )

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My 3.5 month old used to have a really hard time falling asleep. He is a greater sleeper once he falls asleep at night (naps are a different thing...), but sometimes it would take us 2 hours to get him down for a nap or bed no matter what we did - nurse, rock, walk, bounce...etc. He has never just went to sleep peacefully and calmly on his own. At our wits end we tried CIO. It is now a week into it and he's sleeping great (often times 12 hours through the night). I would always nurse him if he woke up at night.

My question to Moms who were successful at CIO - is the goal to be able to put your baby down to sleep without any fussing or crying? My DS would usually cry for around 5 minutes, sometimes 15-20 if he was overtired or not tired enough. There were a few times around the 3rd and 4th day when I was able to put him down in his crib and he would only *fuss* for half a minute - enough time for me to walk to his bedroom door - when he would quiet down. However that's never happened again. Now it's usually crying for 3-6 minutes. I'm wondering why he "regressed" from his early training days?

Also, I've noted that in the beginning, it was easiest for him to sleep when he's had 1hr 45min of awake time. That was when he only fussed for half a minute. However now, when I try to go to 1hr 45 mins, he would start to fuss earlier, often times during the nap/bedtime routine. Not sure what's going on here. Should I shorten the awake time because he is already tired? Or do you think it's possible that he's associated the routines with having to cry in bed???!

** PLEASE I am not soliciting opinions from Moms who are not supporters of CIO. I am not looking to debate it's merits. Thanks. **

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Krista - posted on 05/11/2011

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So Victoria, are you suggesting that even though the entire medical community AND the man who virtually wrote the book on CIO are all saying that CIO should not be done before 6 months, that they're all wrong...because you WANT them to be wrong?

I'm not virulently anti-CIO. I used a modified version of Ferber with my baby, and it worked very well for us. I tried holding and rocking him, but it just kept him awake and fussy longer. So once he was about 5-6 months old, I'd let him fuss for a few minutes before going in to him. And when I say fuss, I mean fuss. Just that sort of whining, "Eh, ehhhh...." cry that I could tell was winding down. It worked very well -- he was usually asleep within 5 minutes or so.

But unfortunately, a lot of people take CIO to absurd extremes. I've read many a post here on COM from mothers who have left NEWBORNS to cry and wail and shriek by themselves for an hour or more.

And this is why those guidelines have to be spelled out very clearly. Doctors and experts can't just say, "Well, it's up to every parent to use their common sense on this one, so we won't give them any guidelines." Those guidelines are there for a very valid biological/psychological reason, and as we all know, some moms DON'T have any common sense.

Anyway, I digress. To get back to the OP's question, all I can tell you is that this is VERY normal. You'll think you've got your child in a routine, and then all of a sudden it doesn't work anymore. Mine slept like a trooper from 2 months old until 5 months old, and then it all flew to hell again. This will happen many, many, many times.

That is why really, with babies, it's important to have a ROUTINE, but it's also important to not get too hung up on a schedule...because you're dealing with a rapidly growing and developing human who is NOT going to stick to the schedule.

Kate CP - posted on 05/09/2011

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If I sound hateful it's not my intent. I just get frustrated when people say that CIO is appropriate for such small/young babies. 2-4 months is the peak risk period for SIDS. And boys are at a higher risk of SIDS than girls are. It's better if a baby wakes at night during this period of time as it shows they aren't falling too deeply asleep where they could stop breathing.

How I get my son to fall asleep on his own: I let him fall asleep when he's tired. We'll lay in bed and watch TV with the lights down and the sound low. I'll read a book with him next to me. I'll hum a song to him while he's nursing. He also cluster feeds at night which helps him get to sleep. When I start seeing signs that he's tired (yawning, staring off into space, and his whiny "I'm tired but can't get comfy enough to sleep" cry) I turn everything off, put down the book, and put him to bed. He snuffles around for a little bit to get comfy and then he's off to dream. The key here is to not expect a certain time that he'll go to bed. He has a window of a bed time in which I know he'll start to get sleepy. If I try before or after that window then all bets are off. Like I said, schedules don't exist before 6 months.

Kate CP - posted on 05/09/2011

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Personally, I'd throw away that parenting magazine. Sometimes the only thing that's "wrong" with a baby is that they need their mom.

Kate CP - posted on 05/09/2011

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Okay, at 3.5 months a baby may still need to eat at night and crying it out is NOT recommended even by those who developed it like Dr. Ferber. You SHOULD NOT let a 3-4 month old baby cry it out.

My son is 3.5 months old. He sleeps about 4-5 hours a night, then gets up to eat, and then goes right back to sleep for another 4-5 hours. He falls asleep on his own. I've never let him CIO. He's too young. Your baby is too young. There is no such thing as a sleep schedule for a baby under 6 months.

Charlie - posted on 05/10/2011

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Jennifer it wasnt an attack on the magazine it isnt our opinion it comes from medical advice and current scientific research that all conclude the same thing .....CIO for children under 6 months is not reccomended because not meeting their biological needs can and does changes the chemical make up in their brains for the worse , it is a release of the stress hormone cortisol that their underdeveloped brains are not ready for.



It should speak volumes that the Dr Ferber the very man who came up with the concept says DO NOT use CIO on children under 6 months .





It isnt about forcing ones beliefs on anyone because it isnt a belief ...it is a fact based on science and years of study .



"You seem to keep missing the fact that when nothing is wrong with the child; basic needs like hungry, thirsty, too cold, too hot, in pain, dirty daiper, then there's nothing for the child to do but cry it out if they don't want to go to sleep."



No we got that but you seem to be ignoring the fact that a child that youngt has one more fundamental need , the need for security withing their carers arms , yes some continue to cry the major difference being when a child is left to cry on their own at that age massive doses od cortisol are released however if a crying baby is held the release of cortisol is minute and pose no threat .

The worlds leading expert on infant sleep Dr James Mckenna actually reccomends ( as he has also advised several medical boards worldwide ) that babies should Co sleep ( up to within arms reach from the parental bed ) Read the link for more information on why .



Im not saying Co sleeping is for everyone because it isnt , Im also not saying that if a baby is naturally developed enough to sleep on their own that they shouldnt ,there are times when you have to choose between sanity and CIO but if you ARE going to do it follow the guidlines they are there for a reason .



http://www.naturalchild.org/james_mckenn...

55 Comments

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Jodi - posted on 05/14/2011

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Kate is right. If you post a question in a public forum, you can't dictate the responses you get. Instead, the OP can filter through the responses as she chooses.

Kate CP - posted on 05/14/2011

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Look, you start a post about a controversial topic and it's GOING to be debated. It's like if I posted a question about "Should I get an abortion?" or "Should I just feed formula instead of breast milk?" It's a highly debatable topic and people WILL debate it whether you like it or not.

Mel - posted on 05/14/2011

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yes that is what it comes down to Jennifer, she didnt ask for a CIO debate. I hope you have gotten some helpful information Wendy

Jennifer - posted on 05/14/2011

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TO THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS THREAD (ANYONE ELSE LOOKING TO DEBATE ABOUT CIO NEED NOT REPLY--and I do mean this because I will not respond): If you need or want to talk to someone about this matter more, you can message me if you want to (:

Kathleen - posted on 05/14/2011

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I'm not sure what is dangerous, She feeds him when he is hungry, changes him when he is wet. Crying for 3-6 minutes isn't dangerous. In the beginning crying for 15 minutes was a bit too long but that isn't the case now.

Kathleen - posted on 05/14/2011

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I think this sounds like a debate,,,which the Mom who asked the question clearly stated that she didn't want you to post debates.So can you all just stop??I mean, she's already needing advice so she is stressing, and this is suppose to help her?? My son didn't respond to CIO. From birth he never slept well, and still wakes in the middle of the night to come to sleep with Mom and Dad. He's 22 months. But when he falls asleep, I will often put him back in his bed and he is fine. He falls asleep either on one of us or leaning on one of us every night, usually around the same time. So he knows his bedtime. It is so wonderful to hold a little one while they sleep. Just so wonderful. ;)

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CIO for newborns and infants under 6 months ???? I am shocked at the stupidity I have read here !!

Jodi - posted on 05/14/2011

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I'm sorry, but it disgusts me that someone could leave a newborn to CIO. Newborns cry for a reason. They just came out of the womb!!! It's a fucking scary world for them!! I'd be crying for my mummy too!!

Kate CP - posted on 05/13/2011

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Yes, a newborn is too young to cry it out. I have never heard of a person leaving a newborn to cry it out.

Do you really think these little babies are capable of manipulation and vindictive behavior? Really? Babies whose parents respond to their cries grow up secure and confident knowing that their parents are there and they're safe. A baby cries because they need something. Whether that something is a cuddle or a clean diaper is irrelevant. When a baby needs their mother is when they cry. They cry because they have no other way of communicating. They cry because they know you'll respond like you're biologically programmed to. Or at least you SHOULD.

Needadvice - posted on 05/12/2011

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Not even newborn is too early to CIO as long as you are not leaving them to cry for a long time. Crying helps their lungs develop and strengthen actually......I noticed you said he would fuss for as long as it took to get to his door, just reading in between the lines and may be wrong but it sounded like when he starts fussing you rush in and as long as he has a clean diaper and has been fed there is nothing wrong with leaving him to cry himself to sleep. That being said here's what I did with my daughter and she was sleeping through the night by 2 months old.........Before I laid her down I would give her a bath and a rub down with lotion, this actually wears a baby out I would then feed her and lay her down she was soooo tired it usually only took a few minutes for her to fall asleep. Babies do what they percieve through their parents to be their appropriate reactions, if you are stressed out about the upcoming crying when you lay him down he can sense that, also when you come rushing when he cries then he thinks you should every time babies learn quick that mommy comes running when they cry and then come to expect it try stalling a second before you answer every cry no matter what it is unless he's hurt. I learned a lot from my Mom when I had my daughter and she really knew what she was talking about. Think of it this way you are teaching your baby how to react or get what they want from day 1 they absorb their surroundings like a sponge trying to get a hang of this new life. I tried not reacting as shocked or scared when my daughter had small spills and instead would say in a happy voice "baby go boom" or "uh-oh skettios" and I found my daughter would never cry when she wasn't really hurt unless she read from my reactions she was hurt. My point is babies do what they have been taught will get results "if I cry mommy will come get me, rock me, hold me bounce me, ect." You didn't really say what is being done with him on a regular basis so maybe you already do this, but for a few minutes sporadically through the day lay him down on the floor on top of one of his blankies and leave him there for 5-10 minutes even if he cries babies do better with fussing in my experience if you are not constantly holding them because if you are they come to expect it ALWAYS including at bed time.

Jennifer - posted on 05/11/2011

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Just as an aftertought, however, my firstborn was (and still is) a very happy child. And she was a pretty esay baby much of the time. My second was (and still is) also a very happy child. Both are very outgoing (friendly) and continue to thrive quickly.

Jennifer - posted on 05/11/2011

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This is just getting silly aleady. I have never read about the "Dr.Ferber method" because it really isn't his method. Mentioning having a child cry itself to sleep doesn't make it patented. He didn't invent a crying baby. Whatever CIO technique you read up on from him you can throw out the window because I never once followed HIS technique.
Seriously, as quite a few, including myself, have already expressed, what works for some DOES NOT work for ALL. No matter what you say or do, it won't change how each individual baby is. There is no one technique that is going to work for every baby in the world, I don't care what article anyone cites or how they personally feel because that's just it, it's how you feel and that's FINE. BUT respect how I (and other mother's who have used or use CIO) feel and leave it at that. If you want to debate about CIO, there is a debate forum and those who WISH to debate about it can click a CIO thread there.

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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Like I said each their own :) *I* do not feel like I missed out on anything :) my daughter is perfect to me like yours are too you, what we do works and I'd do it all over because shes happy :)
Happy baby = bliss :)

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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Like I said each their own :) *I* do not feel like I missed out on anything :) my daughter is perfect to me like yours are too you, what we do works and I'd do it all over because shes happy :)

Happy baby = bliss :).

Kate CP - posted on 05/11/2011

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You assume that because I don't do the methods you do that my baby and I aren't well rested and are crabby. Every baby is different. Every mother is different. I'm actually pretty well rested considering I have a 5 year old and a 3.5 month old who sleeps 4-5 hours at a time. My son is one of the happiest babies you'll ever meet. I love holding him and rocking him to sleep or cuddling with him during naps. It's relaxing and peaceful to me. My husband calls a sleeping baby an instant sleeping pill: nothing puts you at ease and relaxes you faster like a baby sleeping on your chest. It's the best feeling in the world.

So yea, I do feel kind of sad that you didn't/don't experience that for whatever reason. But hey, your kids, your choice. If *I* had never done that I think I would feel like I missed out on something. Not saying that you should feel that way, but that's how *I* feel.

Sleeping baby=bliss.

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Krista, I mentioned the "No Cry Sleep Solution". It's a brilliant book, as are Elizabeth Panteley's others. My firstborn was such a bad sleeper, it was ridiculous. She's got another book, "No Cry Discipline Solution" that I'm going to buy today since I'm at the next stage (4 & 2).

Morgan, your daughter is gorgeous! But as the other ladies said, you were quite blessed with a good sleeper. My first son was so difficult, but when my second son came along I was blown away because he was sleeping through (5 hrs for babies) from a few weeks old. When he did wake at night it was just for a feed and then out like a light again.

The most annoying thing is that just when you get used to a routine the baby goes and throws it out the window because they are growing and changing so quickly.

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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No actully have you read his book? Crying out is only a last resort, he teaches You many many things like not holding a sleeping baby and trying to put them down sleepy but not sleeping, it also teaches you how to set a good routine, there's only a chapter or two in the whole book that even touch on CIO and as I said it's a last resort thing, the book is fabulous and as a mother I know I probaly missed out on a few quite moments with my daughter but I think we have a stronger bond because we are well rested and happy :) not crabby and sleepy but again each your own right, and you can say it's luck, but I worked very hard at getting it right and it wasn't easy on me to not just hold her and stare all day but it was worth it

Jodi - posted on 05/11/2011

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No, I was just confused, because you said you used Dr Ferber, which is CIO. I wasn't arguing, just confused :)

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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Yes Jodi I have rocked Addilynn to sleep as well when she's teething or sick but not everyday, she can fall asleep on her own, which is a wonderful thing, I'm not here to argue with any of you just giving my advice from my opinions that's all, and I of corse it's ok for a two year old to want there mommy, I mean kids who get rocked everyday for bed and naps then wake up screaming cause there alone, I've seen it first hand so I know it happens, I dont mean don't comfort you sick or crabby baby!!!





Edited to add,

I never used the cry it out method?

Jodi - posted on 05/11/2011

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I'm confused....you talk about using CIO, but your babies did fall asleep in your arms and THEN you put them in the crib?

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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I bond with my child while she is awake, I spend many many hours of skin to skin time enjoying my daughter but the when she was asleep she went in her crib as I said I'm glad I did that and if you think it's just luck that's ok too it's your opinion. I can bond with my daughter much better when she is well rested and happy, I think it's sad that you would even go there, how's does holding a sleeping baby grow a bond?

Jodi - posted on 05/11/2011

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I used to rock my babies to sleep when they needed it, and I didn't have any 2 year olds who needed to be rocked to sleep. I think you exaggerate.

Jennifer - posted on 05/11/2011

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Why is it sad for a 2 year old to want his mommy? I do feel sad for you. I have had some incredible bonding moments with my daughter while she was sleeping on my chest, and you have never experienced that. I'm not saying you haven't bonded with your daughter, you've just really missed out. Like Kate said, you lucked out. Sleeping through the night that young had absolutely nothing to do with what you were doing. Your baby was just able to go that long without feeds.

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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I disagree and no I never held her while she slept, it's ok if you find that sad, what I find sad is a two year old that won't go to bed without being rocked for an hour, what I also find sad is moms who hold there baby's while they sleep then 8 months later leave them to cry alone in the beds............ That's sad.

Kate CP - posted on 05/11/2011

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You never held her while she slept? I find that kind of sad...nothing feels better than holding a sleeping baby. :}



Edited to add: You WERE lucky. My daughter slept a full 8-10 hours straight at 8 weeks old. I've done all the exact same things with my son and he still wakes at night to feed. Every baby is different and no one method works on all babies. Period.

Morgan - posted on 05/11/2011

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I read doctor ferber book before I had my daughter and would recommend that book to anyone it's fabulous, when my daughter was born I followed that book to a T as hard as it was as a first time mommy, I never Held her while she

slept I never let anyone hold her while she slept, she was alone in her crib in her own room the very night we brought her home, she always napped in her crib unless we were not home and I always laid her down awake never already sleeping, she slept for 12 hours straight at 6 days and has ever since, people always say I was lucky but I don't buy it, I started sleep training her the minute she came home and as hard as it was I don't regret it one bit, I

NEVER had to leave her to CIO, babies really need to learn about sleep patterns and good sleeping habits from the day that there born and in my opinion if more people did this we wouldn't need to discuss the CIO method, I don't think you should leave your baby to cry at 4 months old I think that's too early but if you do at 6 months deiced it's right for you buy the book and follow it closely even at 6 months dr Feber only recommends leaving baby for seconds then minutes, it needs to be done properly :)

Krista - posted on 05/11/2011

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I used the book, "The No-Cry Sleep Solution," as someone else mentioned, and it's great! It has tips for newborns up to toddlers. I just finished reading it again as a refresher for my new baby. She's only 7 weeks old, so I'm still putting her to bed asleep, but she doesn't like to be rocked. We've found that putting her in her bouncy chair and turning the kitchen fan on will knock her out in minutes!

Jennifer - posted on 05/11/2011

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I have not pushed anyone into anything. I'm just trying to understand why you would want to go against all basic instincts, but noone seems to care about that part. Doctors are human. They make mistakes, and none of them know it all no matter which side I'm on. We trust those instincts on every other thing, but why not this. I have never heard a mother say that she liked hearing her baby cry and I'm sure all of you who have let your child CIO, were almost to tears yourself (either that or you made it so you couldn't hear it). I know when I was a 1st time mom, 3.5 months seemed like an eternity at times, but with my 4th, I'm realizing a lot more on how little time we actually get to cuddle and rock our babies to sleep. My oldest is 7, and I so wish I hadn't let those people tell me I had to let him CIO, because now, I would give anything to have him little again and in my arms. Like I said, I'm not trying to push anything on anyone. I'm just trying to understand.

Jodi - posted on 05/11/2011

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I guess I just question.....why do you feel you NEED to let your infants CIO? When I had a baby I kind of expected to have issues with them sleeping so I just took it in my stride and went with the flow (yes, including rocking them to sleep), so I don't get the problem with doing that. I just saw it as part of being a mother.

Victoria - posted on 05/11/2011

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Advice from doctors changes every few years, and not always for the better. In fact, doctors always advised post-menopausal women to take calcium supplements like Caltrate, and new research just found that this leads to an increase in strokes. One day drinking a lot of coffee is good for you, and the next day it isn't, then in a week it is good for you again.

And Ferber is sensitive to the fact that many parents believe that before 6 months CIO is worse than killing someone, so in order to SELL BOOKS, it is possible that he added that part to calm people like you down.

I co-slept with my little guy until he was 3 months old, at which point he was ready to sleep on his own. From there, he moved a cradle beside my bed, and only when he was ready, to his own room. For my first, he didn't need any of this treatment, and he went straight from the womb to his crib. Each child is different, and some simiply need to learn to self sooth.

I totally agree with Jennifer - we are not pushing our viewpoint on anyone, yet you guys seem to get your nickers in a knot about wanting everyone to agree with you. I have to roll my eyes at all of the articles that you are citing - somehow you feel that these are sound and back up your claim, but any article that anyone else cites that says that you can CIO before 6 months you say is garbage. I think we should all just agree to disagree, and get on with our lives.

Mel - posted on 05/10/2011

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great that its working for you :) For me my daughter started being able to go to sleep by herslef around 4-5 months old. We tried earlier but it didnt work. I think it is just a matter of getting the right timing. My daughter is 9 months now and she carried on , on/off for hours just this weekend trying to get her to sleep ecause she got over tired. Get the right moments. Its reccomended to let a bay go to slep by himself from birth, after a feed put them in the cot and never let them fall asleep while feeding (Im guilty of this myself unfortunately). This advice all comes from my child health nurse shes been my child nurse for 3 yrs now and she is absolutely fantastic and has become more of a friend to me even came to myw edding. She always told me those few things never feed the baby to sleep and always let the baby go to sleep by herself

Jennifer - posted on 05/10/2011

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All I have to say on the matter is that it has worked for me. And she's 20 months old, she likes to play and be up and about, you honestly expect every 20 month old to go down without complaining about it once in a while? And a FEW minutes of crying about it is NOT going to harm her. As I said, I know there is nothing wrong with her when I put her down for bed. Sometimes all a baby needs is to sleep. She has me during the day, she's not lacking neither love nor attention; the night time is for sleeping, not for cuddles.
In response to the attacks towards the magazine, like I said, take it up with them, not me. But fyi, I trust it more than I trust people who want to say that their way is the only way and don't have an open mind to think maybe there is another. What worked for you doesn't necessarily work for every child and every parent. And I don't personally believe that a DR simply "came up" with the CIO concept. I'm sure parents were doing it before he "invented" the idea. I'm sure she either READ or WATCHED it somewhere, but I don't see you attacking her for believing THAT.
And I've had a "routine" in place since she was born. But no matter how you feel about CIO you don't have to force what you feel on others. And it has nothing to do with having a "difficult" child. You seem to keep missing the fact that when nothing is wrong with the child; basic needs like hungry, thirsty, too cold, too hot, in pain, dirty daiper, then there's nothing for the child to do but cry it out if they don't want to go to sleep. They had cuddles, etc. during the day, it's not neglecting them not to pay attention to them crying when they simply don't want to go to sleep.
The idea may make no sense to you, but that doesn't mean you have to try to pursuade others into thinking the way you think. After all, I'm not trying to make you do CIO with your children. And my children go to bed on time. My five year old has been going to bed without fussing for years and yes, I did CIO with her, too. This one cried less from the get go about it because she was younger when I started it. When she was 2 months old she learned how to self soothe (and she didn't do so by crying it out). As she got older she got more alert to the fact that things were happening around her and she didn't want to miss anything (even though at night there is little to no activity going on in the house) and then got to the age where she decided that she'd rather play instead of go to bed. But just because she fusses for a few minutes, you think that it's pointless. Just because not doing CIO worked for you, doesn't make YOUR method right for everyone.
Oh, and just so you know, I didn't ignore my childs cries as an infant when she woke up in the middle of the night for a feeding and a daiper change! There's a huge difference between letting them cry themselves to sleep and neglecting them.

Katherine - posted on 05/10/2011

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Sorry guys I can't get to the next post. To the OP, even though you are asking for no CIO advice from "non-cio" parents, unfortunately it's going to happen. I agree with everyone else about 3.5 being too young, however I do know the frustrations, but as someone else said it's not recommended for babies under 6 months old.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_baby-sleep-t...

Jennifer - posted on 05/10/2011

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Do you honestly believe EVERYTHING you read in a magazine? At almost 20 months your child is still crying herself to sleep at times? No, I didn't have magic babies that just fell asleep whenever I wanted and I didn't CIO with the youngest 3. I worked the routine and stuck with it. Long before 20 months, my kids would go to bed on time, no fussing, or crying. You don't have to CIO no matter how difficult the child. To me, the whole idea makes no sense! We are told to trust our babies and their basic instincts, and they will let us know when they need something (even if it is just for a cuddle). We are told to trust our motherly instincts which tells us when our baby is crying, he/she needs us. Why all of a sudden is it ok to not listen to either of those?

Charlie - posted on 05/09/2011

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Yeah I would be throwing that magazine out too , even the DR who came up with CIO does not reccomend it for babies under 6 months ... babies that young have biological needs that need to be met and can only be expressed through crying , at this age it is a need for baby to simply be close to mother m remember that it wasnt that long ago they were safe inside you they are not yet developmentally ready for independence .

I do hope parents are far more sensible than to take the word of a magazine without researching the topic .

Jennifer - posted on 05/09/2011

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Contrary to the common opinion who did not read the ** notation, you actually CAN let a baby that young cry it out as long as there's nothing else wrong with him/her (and as you've already expressed, you make sure there isn't)....and for the ones who disagree, it was in a parenting magazine, so you can take it up with them, not me. I'm not looking to debate, either. It said that from 2 months old is the age that a baby can learn to self soothe themself. Honestly, if you start them earlier they will catch on quicker. With my younger daughter (now almost 20 months) I started putting her down in the crib at night around 2 months when I knew she wasn't wanting for nothing, fresh daiper, fed, bathed, comfortable, and she learned to self soothe. For children that young, however, I expect them to sometimes cry about it because they don't want to miss out on anything. During nap times and bed time she may or may not fuss and there is a routine in place at night and they get used to this routine and learn to know what to expect next. After my daughter is daipered after her bath and I pick her up and head for the bed sometimes she starts saying, "I want to play," because she knows it's bedtime lol. Often times she will go down without crying as I lay her down, give her her blanket, and walk out the door and close it, but there's also times where she doesn't want to go to sleep and she'll cry for under five minutes (most of the time it doesn't even last a minute). You mentioned 3-6 minutes is the time that he's been fussing lately, which actually isn't that long, considering you could have waited until he grew older (like 2 or 3) and then that 3-6 minutes would have lasted at LEAST an hour lol. The earlier it is done it seems the less resistance they have to it (less fussing and crying). I did it later with my first daughter and she was really stubborn about it by that time, but there really wasn't much of another way unless I wanted her to stay up until almost 11, which was NOT happening! So with my second I did it much earlier after reading that in a parenting article and it's worked much quicker. Also, when my first born was 4 months old she actually started to sleep through the night and let's be logical. A perfectly healthy baby is not going to sleep through the night if they are hungry; they would wake up, so to let him sleep until he's ready to wake up is not cruel. I never woke up either one of my children for midnight feedings, they've always woken up themselves when they were hungry. And both of them, upon coming home, would sleep an average of four hours at a time during the night. They are beyond healthy now.

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If you keep a watchful eye out for the signs of tiredness. Pounce on that brief moment to put baby to bed and he'll go down more easily. I had one terrible sleeper and one great sleeper.

This will get better. I don't agree with CIO on such a young baby who has no object permanence (meaning if he can't see you, then you don't exist). There are many other methods to try and a book that helped me with my bad sleeper was the "No cry sleep solution".

We are always learning more about ourselves and our babies, so many things that used to be done aren't done now because we know better. My mother smoked while pregnant with me, because it was ok back then. Both my parents were heavy smokers, so I grew up surrounded by it, yet I haven't any I'll effects from it. Does that mean it's okay for my babies to be exposed to smoke in the same way?

Good luck and just remember it will get better.

Wendy - posted on 05/09/2011

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I do nurse my DS when he wakes at night, I do not *make* him sleep 12 hours, he just did! Also, I talked to the nurse at my pediatrician's office because I was also concerned about him sleeping such long hours without nursing and she said that at 3 months they can go that long without food. This just means that he is getting all he needs during the day.

So that aside, thank you Victoria for your comments! I do think it's a matter of catching him at the right moment of sleepiness to put him down to sleep. I tried shortening the amount of wake time today and things seem to be improving. Tonight at bedtime, he actually went down without crying! I was so glad. And yes they do grow and change so fast, I know that by 4 - 6 months their sleeping patterns become more regular so hopefully things will be more predictable then.

Lastly, I don't mean to post such a controversial topic, but I just wanted some feedback. CIO was a last resort. I was hesitant and felt awful listening to my DS cry. I still do when he cries now. But honestly the amount of crying he does at bedtime now is shorter than the amount of crying he used to do when he didn't know how to fall asleep. My DS now wakes up happy and does not wake up crying anymore. If I were blessed with a baby that could fall asleep without getting upset and cranky, I would also not do CIO. I am still sensitive to his needs - if it was not working, I would abandon the approach till he's ready. Also, my MIL used CIO with my husband and he turned out to be a loving person who has a great relationship with his mother. She started at 3 months.

Jennifer - posted on 05/09/2011

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crying is not the only way to get your baby to know when it's night time and time to sleep. Turn down the lights a 1/2 hr before you want him to go to sleep. Change his diaper. Give him a bath or massage. Read to him or sing a song. Nurse and rock him. Get him used to the routine. Obviously it isn't going to work in one night, but he will eventually catch on. I have 4 kids, and let my 1st one CIO only because I was young and nieve and let others dictate on how I should raise my child. Sure it worked, but I felt aweful. No mommy likes to hear her baby cry (I'm sure you are the same way). I used this method with all the rest, and it was just as effective, and a lot easier on baby and mommy.

Tinker1987 - posted on 05/09/2011

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Opinions will rise instantly when seeing a post like this. CIO at a baby under 6 months is highly wrong.i couldnt go to sleep knowing my baby is in distress... ive been blessed with a awesome sleeper. but if i wasn't i still wouldnt do CIO..

Victoria - posted on 05/09/2011

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Yikes I'm sorry! When I say cry it out, I don't mean for the night - just to get to sleep. I still get up 2-3 times a night to feed him. I know my baby - he doesn't have acid reflux, I make sure that he is in no pain, his diaper is changed, he is not hungry, he just doesn't want to be away from his parents, and doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own. Letting him cry for 5-15 minutes until he realizes that it is time to sleep is not inhumane in my opinion.

Gah, I have to stop posting to such controversal posts. Too many judgemental people on here!

I am interested though Kate, how do you get him to fall asleep on his own without him crying? If he just does it, you are very lucky, and shouldn't judge people who may not have such an easy to settle baby. And please don't respond hatefully, I am honestly curious to know how you do it, and if there is anything that you are doing that I haven't thought of yet.

Victoria - posted on 05/09/2011

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Ha, it looks like someone didn't read your last sentence!

I do believe that you CAN cry it out with a 3.5 month old. Like you, I was at my witts end trying everything to get my boy to sleep and nothing worked. Finally, I tried the Ferber method, which worked, but it seemed like everytime I went in to check on him and reassure him, it only recharged him to cry longer. So now, I don't bother checking in every minute or so, and he falls asleep faster. I think that eventually they will go down without any fussing, but for now, my little guy still cries every time I put him down but not for that long. The problem is, once I finally figure out when the best time to put him down where he is tired, but not over tired, he changes his routine (they grow so fast!). Your little one is still young, eventually he will learn to sooth himself and play in his crib until he dozes off. My 19 month old goes down smoothly, and talks/sings/plays by himself until he falls asleep and I did the same for him that I am doing for my little guy.

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