Discipline

Hollie - posted on 09/16/2011 ( 53 moms have responded )

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would you agree with some people that holding your arms straight out for a child is effective punishment? for some reason i dont see how this is teaching a child right from wrong or what they did to deserve this as punishment, i simply redirect for any kind of wrong behavior.

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Allie - posted on 09/17/2011

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In our post modern world no discipline is acceptable, that is why this generation has no morals, no respect for anyone, no work ethic, and is solely relyling on the government for everything!!!! I am a mother of 4, and I refuse to reveal my discipline techniques or my personal parenting views because I know that people don't understand what it takes to raise well rounded children.

Jodi - posted on 09/18/2011

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" i think the world is too P.C now. We are not allowed to discipline our children at home or at school "



But this is the problem. People ASSUME we can't discipline children because of political correctness. And that just isn't the case. We CAN discipline our children. In fact, we MUST discipline our children.



But why must it take the form of physical punishment? It is entirely unnecessary. Discipline comes in many different forms. I don't understand this mentality that if you don't somehow use physical punishment (and I consider this physical because it is having a physical effect on the child), then you are not disciplining your children and they have no morals, are running wild and likely to end up in prison. It's just poppycock.....and incredibly ignorant.

Rebekah - posted on 09/19/2011

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It sure is effective"PUNISHMENT" if all you are after is making your child pay/suffer for what they did (which makes no sense since a child usually has little idea about what they as 'BAD'). The goal should be GUIDANCE and DISCIPLINE. That means that you help them understand that WHAT they did was wrong and WHY it was wrong. We should be teaching our child(ren) to exert control over themselves rather than us, as parents controlling them all the time.

Jodi - posted on 09/16/2011

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How you deal with a situation would be dependent on the age of the child, but I don't see that asking them to stand and hold their arms out straight is in any way relevant or effective :/ I wouldn't do it. I can only see doing it as a form of humiliation, which I don't believe in doing to my kids. It certainly isn't teaching any lesson.

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Britt - posted on 09/28/2011

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I wouldnt want that punishment on my children, i just take away video games, cant go out and ride your bike with the neighborboy etc.....usually my kids learn quick! But if my ex was doing this, i so want them out of that house, i think it sounds like they are inflicting pain on the child and are aware and doesnt seem to phase them at all which would be then considered abuse! have them hold up their arms above their head for long periods of time see howthey like it

Diana - posted on 09/22/2011

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That is a terrible thing to do to your child. I would never make my child do anything like that and hope you change your mind. Words work just as well.

Hollie - posted on 09/21/2011

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i just feel bad and sad how can he learn from this? Obviously he does it alot more for punishment because i keep hearing from him when he visits my dearest sister that its the common punishment and he does it often for long periods of time

Lynn - posted on 09/19/2011

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idk some kids are extreamly strong willed. i dont think it is good to beat ur kids, but sometimes parents have to get creative to learn what works.

Megan - posted on 09/19/2011

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i agree thats horrible, sounds like the gf is a step witch and BD and they need some parenting skills and supervised visits if they like to inflict pain and harm in their punishments.

Jodi - posted on 09/19/2011

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That's ridiculous Jessie. No child should be sore the next day from a punishment. Even if you BELIEVE in physical punishment, surely you'd have to agree that a child who is still sore the next day has been abused.

Hollie - posted on 09/19/2011

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ive heard from my nephew that he has to hold his arms up and they are sore the next day at school he is nearly 10 and has to hold water bottles in his hands i asked how long and he says well over 20 minutes and if he dare drops his arms because of discomfort his own father and his gf makes him put them back up again,

Rebekah - posted on 09/19/2011

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Alot of what I am reading on here sounds like whatever discipline is being given is simply for the sake of changing the child's behavior, which is a short term fix. While I certainly want my child's behavior to change, that should not be my main or sole focus. Helping him have a change of heart and/or attitude is really what I'm after. If all I told my child was, "Go stand in the corner, sit in the chair, etc., and didn't bother to talk with him about what he did and why he shouldn't be doing it, he would probably repeat the behavior at some point - if not in front of me then elsewhere. In my mind, there is a HUGE difference between punishment and guidance/discipline.It takes time and effort to guide and discipline your child(ren). You have to give ALOT more of yourself than if you simply punish their behavior.

Paula - posted on 09/19/2011

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Definietly not open arms should mean comfort and love and equality and stability not discipline.With a toddler disciplinary action should be something that they understand

[deleted account]

I do not agree with any punishment. I agree with discipline and natural consequence.

Sidney - posted on 09/19/2011

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For the most part I agree with you. However, sometimes children need an attention getter and they sometimes need something to help them remember. We usually used consequences vs. punishment however we had a particular problem with picking things up off of shelves in stores so when they had been warned (once) they were required to walk through the rest of the store with their hands on their head. We found it to be rather effective. Sometimes simply redirecting is not enough.

Jenni - posted on 09/19/2011

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Patricia, then I would surmise they are not using it correctly. I think what you may be referring to is distraction (which is used for babies and very young toddlers). Redirection is giving them an appropriate alternative to the negative behaviour. As in, you can't play with this glass bowl, it might break but you can play with this plastic one instead.

Or in issues of sharing. You can't take that away from him but you can ask to take turns.

Or my other example. You can't jump on the couch but you can jump on the floor.



Negative attention seeking behaviours you can ignore (as long as they are not harmful to others or property). While reinforcing positive behaviours with attention.

Patricia - posted on 09/19/2011

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Everyone who I have known to use the "redirect method" spend alot more time rediredting as the child learns that when they act up they can get their parent to spend more time playing with them and finding them something even more fun to do. So the lesson they learn is if I act up I will be rewarded.

Jenni - posted on 09/19/2011

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I'm not really sure what the point of this would be...

But then again, I believe in logical consequences or consequences that fit the crime and teach the child an important lesson on *why* they shouldn't engage in a particular behaviour.

But to each their own... I guess.



Redirection is a good disciplinary method... I think a poster earlier was inquiring what redirection entails. Redirection is used for certain behaviours to redirect the negative behaviour into a positive behaviour. It's generally used for younger children. I'm pretty sure most parents use it but don't put a name to it.

An example would be: your child is jumping on the couch. "We don't jump on the couch, we might break it or fall down and hurt ourselves. Let's jump on the floor instead and I'll jump with you!"



To Teresa, I don't think it's because parents are becoming afraid to discipline our children. We are just more open to and have more disciplinary methods available to us than in the past.

I certainly, didn't opt out of using forms of discipline like spanking, the method in the OP etc because I was afraid to spank my kid. Nor am I one of those permissive parents following my child around saying "no no no no no no" while my children tear up the house or run amok in a store.



I just found (from my own experience) spanking and such being ineffective in teaching self-discipline and in many cases an irrational and illogical punishment that is unrelated to the behaviour. Sure, I guess it's effective enough at stopping the behaviour in some children... for fear of the punishment. But I don't understand how it teaches them why they shouldn't engage in a forbidden behaviour. Or gives them a positive alternative to a negative behaviour.



I just have a different perspective on child discipline than you and probably different goals in teaching proper conduct and behaviour.



I've learned I can achieve the same results with my 3 children using positive discipline methods as parents who use spanking, methods like in the OP and other such punishments.

Holly - posted on 09/19/2011

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what about the child will put their hands on head and stand or sit in the corner.

Angela - posted on 09/19/2011

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But why must it take the form of physical punishment? It is entirely unnecessary. Discipline comes in many different forms. I don't understand this mentality that if you don't somehow use physical punishment (and I consider this physical because it is having a physical effect on the child), then you are not disciplining your children and they have no morals, are running wild and likely to end up in prison. It's just poppycock.....and incredibly ignorant.

I never took my discipline to be a physical discipline, i was being punished for misbehaving and the rules that applied to other punishments, such as confining a child to their room to give them time to think about what they've done, no longer apply in todays world as children have everything they need in their rooms. I punish my 15 year old daughter by taking away things which i know will hurt her , such as her mobile phone, or restrict her use of facebook etc. I find this a suitably effective punishment for her. Each child will respond in a different way to their discipline, what works for one child won't work for all the children in that family eg whenever i was sent to my room i used to read a book, it wasn't a punishment for me to have time on my own with a good book and my parents soon realised this, therefore they had to find another means of discipline, hence the facing the wall which actually worked well for all of us. I think we may be reading too much into the punishment originally mentioned in this post.

Teresa - posted on 09/19/2011

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I wouldn't be opposed to using this method for disciplining older kids where other methods of discipline have failed and been repeatedly ignored. It would be a last resort punishment. To the mom who is afraid of having her kid resent her for discipline methods, we got over the spankings that we had growing up (and deserved). This is so much milder. Parents have become too politically correct and border line afraid of disciplining their children. Time and time again I see parents who bend over backwards for their bratty kids who yell at them and throw tantrums and have absolutely no respect for anyone around them. Kids know who has the upper hand and unfortunately these days many of them know that they are the ones that weild the power in their housholds. This is not abuse. It will leave a lasting impression though.

Ez - posted on 09/19/2011

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Why do people assume that an absence of physical punishment equals no discipline? I will echo Jodi and say that is incredibly ignorant. We have so many more resources available to us than our parents and grandparents had. Is it really so hard to believe that some of us choose to utilise that and find more positive methods to guide our children?

Sherri - posted on 09/18/2011

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It certainly wouldn't be my first choice but I don't have an issue with others opting to use it as punishment.

Heck it is no different than a spanking or using time out. They are all punishments just a different version. So if it works for them great.

Renae - posted on 09/18/2011

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After reading a lot of the posts, it is great to see how everyone seems to have thier own opinions of proper dicipline. Lets be real, there are types of dicipline that work for some kids that doesn't work for others. Kids are different just as thier parents are different from others. I am not one to say who is right or wrong, but if I found a baby sitter or my ex pulling this crap on my son, there would be hell to pay!

Jodi - posted on 09/18/2011

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When I was a baby my mum carried me in the car in her lap.......just saying.

Jodi - posted on 09/18/2011

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But whose line defines abuse? Yours, mine, Fred's? Most laws state abuse as "unreasonable force". What YOU consider to be unreasonable may be very different to your neighbour. In many countries, anything enforcing physical punishment is considered abuse. Quite subjective really.......

Megan - posted on 09/18/2011

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every child is different, and parenting technique, but dont see what point the parent is proving by enduring pain from holding up your arms?? sounds military to me also like katherine mentioned.
Some others on here keep saying "when i was a child" well just a bit of an update, what parents did 'back then' was abuse or not and take it more serious now days than they did back then.
i would say its a form of a more cruel punishment, i certainly wouldnt be okay with my dh telling our child to hold their arms out with any object in them at all , it makes me sick actually.
hope this helps, remember this is my opinion you all have your own :) thanks

[deleted account]

Jessie I agree with you. You have to also know how long this holding of the arms is for. 2-3 minutes would get your point across but above that would be worthless. I was spanked, sent to my room, put in the corner in front of friends and now at 48 years old I am a well rounded adult and mother. PC is not something I teach my kids, I teach my kids patience, tolerance, respect, and how to treat others as you want to be treated. So far the 18, 17, and 12 year olds get compliments in public and by family. Basically every parents style is different. Abuse is where the line is drawn.

[deleted account]

This is the sort of thing (putting arms out straight until sore) that the Japanese used to do to Allied prisoners of war. Obviously they did far, far worse -- and children aren't made to do it for as long, I assume -- but this is the kind of "mild" torture (for lack of better words) that they routinely put POWs through, just as a way of humiliation.

Pamela - posted on 09/18/2011

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I am not certain what holding one's arm straight out would do to correct anything. Sounds like an old punishment that someone's parents taught them back in the 1950's.

First of all, I do not believe in punishment, but rather corrective behavior. You did not say what the action was that led to punishment, but hopefully you are not punishing the child, but rather drawing their attention to the behavior and it's consequences.

If the behavior is minor, then such things as "time out" applied appropriately (the child is instructed to think about the action and come up with a solution for changing the behavior) work effectively in most situations. If the behavior is a repetitive one, the child needs the advice of the parent on how to correct the behavior pattern and then it becomes the parent's responsibility.

For example: If a child misbehaves a time out is given (usually no more than 5 minutes). The child must sit still and think about their actions and choose an appropriate action for correcting the behavior. If the child is reluctant to do so, then the parent makes the choice for the child....loss of favorite TV show or favorite thing to do for an appropriate period of time. It is very important to draw the child's attention to why the behavior is unacceptable so that the child is learning from their mistakes and not just saying "I'm sorry" without any follow up so the mistake is not constantly repeated.

When a child shows a distinctive pattern in behavior that persists then more than "time out" is necessary.

Rebecca - posted on 09/18/2011

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Depends on the child. I'm the oldest of five and each of responded differently to punishment. For me I responded best to a spanking and dissapointment. For my younger brother the act of just having to sit still was agonizing. One of my sisters couldn't stand courdory pants. So as long as the child is only standing the for s few minutes and not an hour, it may be an effective means of punishment. But as I said before each child is different.

[deleted account]

I didn't understand it at first either. But my kids have started looking at time-out as a big joke, dancing around and singing. I would extend their time but they didn't care. Having them put their hands in the air made it uncomfortable and they didn't like being in time out any more. Now they take their punishment without it being a joke because they don't want to stand there longer than they have too and they are less likely to do something to land them in time-out.
As far as it being abusive, I ask HOW? How is it abusive? They are working their muscles. Heaven forbid if we make our children do any sort of exercise! They are suppose to be fat and obese, right!?! In school, because they were not allowed to give spankings, the teachers made students do exercises as punishment. Push-ups or sit-ups for not saying ma'am or sir. "Sitting on the wall" for misbehaving. It's not a bad idea. All these parents worried about their kids resenting them and therefore not disciplining is part of our countries problem. Kids don't have parents nowadays. They have buddies and friends. I'm not worried about my kids resenting me because I given them plenty of loving after their punishment and between punishments. Even though they don't like discipline, one day they will look back, like I have done, and say "I was raised right! And I'm proud of it!"
And will someone please explain what the heck "redirecting" teaches! Taking a kid out of a situation to do something else doesn't seem to teach them anything. You need to teach them how to work out problems, not how to just walk away and find something better to do.
For the mom who didn't understand having them put their nose on the wall, if you had an ADHD child you would totally get it. It prevents distraction so it's easier for him to think about his actions. If my son just sits in time-out facing everyone, 90% of the time he forgets he is in trouble and gets up to go play and can't remember why he is there. When his nose is to the wall, I can ask him when he is done why he was there and what he can do better the next time and he will be able to answer me.

Patricia - posted on 09/18/2011

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Discipline is created in different forms. I am curious when you said you redirect the action are you saying you ignore it or is there a consequence for the action?

Time out is cute for small children however when they get older what is the action taken for inappropriate behavior? The goal is to teach our children what is and isn't acceptable. We desire our children to be representatives of Christ and if the behavior they show does not glorify Christ we as parents must show them the correct way.

Each household has different ideals of what that is, and only we know our children. Some are stubborn and what works for one doesn't work for the other so wisdom is needed. So to say this is cruel without all the facts is making a judgement that the child didn't deserve this and I doubt seriously if a parent who loves the Lord desires to cause harm to their child but are using it as a tool to stop them from continuing in the path they're going and this is the best tool they know.

I say this because we as parents for some reason have stopped disciplining children and they are running wild.

Love, communication and discipline are needed to ensure that our children represent Christ to the utmost. The world is watching us and it is our job as parents to raise them in the admonition of the Lord, the Bible says spare the rod spoil the child. Discipline is the key not rationalizing what is or isn't.

The children today come out wiser however they have know wisdom. They move and respond quicker unfortunately they are still children. They must be guided in the right path and some form of discipline is needed to ensure they're guided directly.

Mom of two sons. One is married and the other is in 7th grade our foundation is Christ's love and discipline is our cornerstone.

Vicki - posted on 09/18/2011

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No. I do not understand how that would teach a child anything but how to get sore arms and humiliation.

Valerie - posted on 09/18/2011

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I'm not sure if I think it is abusive but it doesn't seem like it would be effective and might make your children resent you. I am just not sure I would use any form of exercise as a punishment since you don't want them to look at it that way. My husband IS in the military and he wouldn't do this to our boys.
However I just wanted to say since these are not your kids that you should leave it alone. Every parent is different and it isn't your job to judge or correct others unless you do see real problems.

Angela - posted on 09/18/2011

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I am 47 years old now, but when i was a child (2nd eldest of 4 children) we had to be disciplined otherwise my parents lives would have been hell. My parents made us stand and face a wall with our hands behind our backs, it didn't do us any harm and made us think twice before misbehaving , i think the world is too P.C now. We are not allowed to discipline our children at home or at school and are always looking for new hands off approaches to discipline. When i was a child i had respect for everyone, was always polite and we were known as a lovely family, my parents were highly praised about their well behaved children. Holding arms out is more preferable to a beating and the children will not want that punishment too often so will think twice on most occasions before misbehaving.

Sal - posted on 09/18/2011

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i have never done this, and while i do think there are better methods it does seem non voilent and i little like a time out with extras.....like all forms of disapline it would depend on how it is used.....for a short time to act as a time out maybe, for an extended time causing pain it can be as abusive as anyother form......

Jennifer - posted on 09/18/2011

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Childern are not prisoners of war, to me this is disgusting, talk to them, if it still continues,a small smack on the leg is better than all these new things they keep coming up with,

Jodi - posted on 09/17/2011

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I can discipline without bullying. Anyone can. Some just choose not to. I choose not to bully my children.

Vanesa - posted on 09/17/2011

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Allie H. I agree. I feel as long as my disciplining gets the point across and doesn't break child abuse rules then let me and my child be. My daughter is very well rounded and more respectable than most 8 years old I know.

Vanesa - posted on 09/17/2011

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It's actually not as bad as some people make it sound. It is actually more effective than redirecting and spanking. It gives the child time to think about what they did, while causing them muscle failure. It is not bullying or humiliating or pointless.

Katherine - posted on 09/17/2011

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Cortney as I just said that is military style discipline. MILITARY!!!! Not for kids, for the military.

Cortney - posted on 09/17/2011

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I'm not sure I'd call it abuse. Reason being: according to Child Welfare this would not be called abuse. Now from the standpoint of the child, yes, I'd feel that any consequence for incorrect behavior was cruel and unusual punishment. I grew up with spankings and feel that they have their place in discipline as well. 1st, the kids aren't being abused unless something is being weighed from their lil hands. 2nd, each child is different. As these children are your niece and nephew I'm under the assumption that they do not live with you. Every family is allowed under God to train their child as they see fit but knowing that they answer to God for whatever they do. If the children hate standing with their arms straight out (which will give them great arm muscules) then they're less likely to repeat the offense. I just can't see how it teaches them any other way. But to each his own. I feel that most time outs are a waste of time too but many parents do it and that's why no body wants their children to come over to play. But I digress. Apparently, you like his children; they are probably incredibly mannerly and behave well in private and in public. Don't knock their father's discipline skills. It's working and it's not abuse. It's just different in your personal view.

Katherine - posted on 09/17/2011

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It sounds like military discipline and I surely don't agree with it.

There are a million different forms of discipline. Even positive discipline to do. Lots of praise always works.

Britt - posted on 09/17/2011

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its very very uncalled for to me i say its unecessary abuse its like the parent wants the child to suffer extremely, especially it can make your child sore? ugh!! how wrong!

Ez - posted on 09/16/2011

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I think it's pointless. If they're in a time out why not just leave it at that? Making them do this, or put their nose on the wall or hands on their heads, is unnecessary.

Kyleigh - posted on 09/16/2011

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my ex boyf is doing this to our child we have in common, i think its cruel and doesnt teach any lesson , i get another activitiy for our child to do if his behavior is uncalled for.
What is holding your hands out proving other than a bully? At least Im talking about my ex boyfriend

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