Does anyone agree women should have men sign a sperm donor agreement?

Neo - posted on 09/30/2014 ( 26 moms have responded )

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My advice to women is if you want to have a baby, even with a man you are married to, make sure you have the guy sign a sperm donor agreement that the baby, custody and guardianship will always be yours. Or else don't get pregnant. After what i have been through, being for ed to lose everything i have ever earned over 20 years my whole life's work, and the damage a perfectly good seeming man was later revealed was a complete monster, found guilty in court of raping all our children, getting my kids kidnapped from me for 2.5 years, I personally would even consider terminating without this signed agreement, because it now is apparent to me that even if you're married doesn't mean you have any clue what the future potential behavior of the "sperm donor" could become. Then you can still have a relationship without fear of him seizing control of your kids, doing whatever he (and his friends/ new girlfriend/ new wife) pleases, and even blocking you from your own kids down the road. My experience was men easily get favored by authorities and courts. I who was brought up women's equality was completely shocked to be treated as though my children and I were property of my my ex husband's to do with as he pleases and how dare anyone even question him.

I'm for men to only have no access or only supervised access.
After what I personally have been through.
I don't see how any women could be expected to let her child just go off with some guy she doesn't even know, just because she thinks she knows him, just because he is or had once enjoyed the privileged of sleeping with her, whether married or whatever. What I have learned Is that just because you were once with him or even married to him doesn't mean you even really knew him, or know him, or know him now or what he could be capable of.
Another good topic for discussion, what really is there for women in relationships and marriage? Nothing. They "get to" be the mans slave, that's about it. what does the man really do for the woman that she doesn't do for him? Or that comes close to matching all the more she does for him? Laundry, cooking, cleaning, shopping, child bearing, nursing, child care, etc, etc...
Sorry but after being the model girlfriend and wife my whole life, I really wish it wasn't that my experience is that men are users, lazy, freeloaders, abusive. I hope I get some better experience soon so I can stop talking like this.
It could be more often than not that like myself, many women don't know the men they have been with nearly as well as they think they do.
I was with a man ten years, i was a great wife, had never denied my husband, treated him like a king, had kids with him, thought he was ok-great actually, (pretty difficult for me to speak so highly as i used to of him now) until I found out he was raping our children.
Men cannot be trusted, especially a man you don't know. This man i even thought i did know but he tricked me severely and for 10 years!!! And Im a pretty smart woman with above average "superior" intelligence is what a psychologist reported about me. Men are capable of even long relationships with women and the women still don't know the man at all. Did the wives of Nazi Holocaust soldiers know what their successful husbands were doing all day? No.
If I could be married to a man for 10 years and not have a clue what he has now finally, after the most traumatizing struggle of my life, now been found guilty of raping our infants and children both boys and girls, nearly got away with it caused my children to be kidnapped from me 2.5 years caused me to lose my entire life's earnings, 20+ years of earnings and equity all dumped as virtually "ransome" but to lawyers to help me rescue my kids. He damaged my children beyond repair.
And this is s guy who presented as an educated, clean cut, suit wearing, articulate, funny, successful business man. He just used me to have the kids and then was going to easily steal them from me. He easily enlisted help of authorities against me, which btw there are pockets of child sexual traffickers within the child welfare systems.
Do you really know what some guy is going to do with your kid if you let them take your child for a visit? NO.
My ex easily could've got away with it if my kids hadn't told me just two weeks before he got them kidnapped. If he had been successful to get them kidnapped just 2 weeks earlier, before they told me, he would have easily been able to intimidate and mentally abuse them into never telling me and he would either have custody or shared custody and be doing incest to them now still.
If you have your children to yourself with out harassment from the father, it's just my experience making me say this advise, be careful what you wish for a man to be in your child's life, be happy. Slip away from them, enjoy your life with your children.
I know it is only because if my experience but I am so tired of hearing "a child needs a father". I know my children are better off with no father than that one. Thank God the truth finally prevailed and I have my kids back, and he is found guilty. 2.5-5 years of pure hell. He stole so much from my children and I.
Because of what I went through, I have met a surprising number of women who have gone through similar.
Look at Lexi Dhillon case (google)
Women are the ones with the wombs and the breasts for a reason. A woman invests far too much in a pregnancy, child birth, sacrificing her body, risking her life, giving her all to raise up a baby, just for a man to come along and think just because she let him screw her that he has rights to come along and screw up the kids. It seems to me in the porn addicted and grande theft auto cultures around today most any guy is too much of a potential risk for one thing or another completely unacceptable destructive action. Look at all the movies that came out portraying as if it is cool to be a jack-ass dad. I don't like those movies, I don't find them funny at all.

It's a long life. Just cause you have a baby doesn't mean he's going to deserve for you to like him who had sex with you that night forever. Married or not. What ever you think you have now or did have doesn't really matter when compared to what nightmares can and will be, look at how many people get divorced.

Legally binding sperm donor agreements women.

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Jodi - posted on 10/03/2014

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It actually is very close to 50/50 Dove. Neo has exaggerated and also doesn't know her statistics very well. There are actually more males in the world than females.

http://www.geohive.com/earth/pop_gender....

(Yeah, don't argue world statistics with a society and environment studies teacher and sociology major ;P).

She is assuming that the mothers in question are good decent women too. A good decent woman would not choose someone she thought was not a good decent man to be the father of her children. Period. If there were no good decent men, then why would she have the disrespect for herself to settle for a man she thought was an asshole to have her baby with? That's what sperm banks are for. And THAT, my dear, is where you get your sperm donor agreement.

What is so amusing about this crazy proposal, is that what is essentially being suggested here is signing a contract about resulting children before you sleep with anyone for the first time just in case you get pregnant. Way to kill the mood......and the relationship which was supposed to be based on love and trust.

"I love you, honey, yes I am ready to have sex with you, but before I do, could you please sign this saying that you are just a sperm donor and nothing more if I have your baby". Um, yeah, watch him run for those hills. Not because he isn't a good decent man, but because you're freaking him the heck out with all this talk about having babies before you've ever even had sex.

But as I said in another post, marriage is based on trust. If you don't have a good decent man, and you can't trust him, don't marry him and have his children.

Jodi - posted on 10/02/2014

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"To be more clear I was NOT talking about the good decent men, who the good mother knows, about access.

I was more talking about men who, other than sperm, were uninvolved, men who don't even try with the mother, men who go straight to the court and who lie, didn't contribute at all during pregnancy, or little, and men who are reckless, and don't think about what is best for the child. Ie like a man who wants to get a newborn infant 50% of the time when it will mean interrupting the nursing of the baby, men who are masogonists, and have no respect for women in general, or for the good mother of the child."

I am going to address this part of your most recent post. A sperm donor agreement can only be signed before you get pregnant, right? When a women first decides she wants to have a baby. You also indicated all legalities regarding access should be decided before conception. But only if he isn't a good decent man.

So why would she decide to have a baby with a person she didn't think was a good decent man? Can't you see your proposal is flawed?

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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Neo: HERE IS WHERE YOU ADVOCATE ILLEGAL ACTION:

"I personally would even consider terminating without this signed agreement" AND in context, you were stating that, even if the man wouldn't consider blindly signing away all rights, you would advocate taking the child away (illegally) if it was what you deemed 'best'.

This one isn't necessarily illegal, but it does not take the whole situation into account: "I'm for men to only have no access or only supervised access." You just stated that, because YOU gave birth, the child is YOURS, and you want men to have no access. You aren't advocating for equal parental rights, you're advocating for possession of the child by the mother only.

SMH.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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Yeah, I can just see the look on my husband's face had I done something like that 'Oh, I'm sorry sweetie, I know that we've been happily married for 5 years, but now that I'm pregnant, I think you're going to turn into a monster, so would you mind signing all rights to this child away now, so that, just in case, in the future, I'll already have this done when I want to divorce you"...

I believe that not only my husband, but the rest of my family would have wanted to have me examined for mental health purposes.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

26 Comments

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Jodi - posted on 10/03/2014

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Neo, can you stop changing your posts please? Instead, post a new one. Otherwise it makes it difficult for others to follow the conversation. It is also REALLY annoying because you don't state that you've changed your post, you just do it to make yourself look good. Which you don't, because we all know you changed your post.

Male/female ratio is actually pretty even at breeding age in North America, the skew is happening in the more elderly age groups because women have a longer life span. I don't believe they are the ones choosing partners to have babies with. If you are going to argue with statistics, at least know what the statistics are saying.

So.....what was your argument again?

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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I thought it was pretty close to 50/50... not exactly, of course... then again I haven't checked something like that out in a long time.

Hey... I'm planning on staying single now for the rest of my life. Maybe that frees up a good man for someone else. ;)

I am glad to see you having some humor... even though I do think your idea is 100% bonkers.

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Ok so I guess I meant to say North America, not world

Did you know stats are that there are more women in North America than men,

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89-503-x/20...
and

"There were over 158.6 million females in the United States in 2009. The number of males was 151.4 million. At age 85 and older, there were more than twice as many women as men. People under 20 years of age made up over a quarter of the U.S. population (27.3%), and people age 65 and over made up one-eighth (12.8%) in 2009.[13] The national median age was 36.8 years.[13] "
-
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph...

So that alone, how is every woman supposed to meet a good decent man?

...Then for the good decent women, how many of these men are actually good decent men to chose from and who are available, acceptable age, etc?

How may are not available because of already married, age, homosexuality, other...

The fact is there are not enough good decent men for every woman.
So then there likely are are not enough good decent men for every good decent woman.
There are not even enough men for every woman
Maybe women who do have relationships/marriages with good decent men are ok with male-female relationship-life being a game of musical chairs.
Maybe if more good decent women have more male children by donor then the number of good decent males will go up for future generation females....
Or looks like one can always mail-order a husband since world pop stats are different from North American stats.
See the various branches and benefits of what I am talking about are endless. Loool
I hope you guys have some sense of humor.

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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Look, I am really, really, really sorry for what you went through. No one should have to go through traumatic stuff w/ their spouse or their kids... but what you are advocating in your posts is illogical and unstable. I know you are messed up from your ex. I, personally, will never trust another new man again... but I KNOW there are good men out there... I actually know a LOT of them... and the things you are proposing... are just nuts. Sorry.

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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No. Abortions are legal here. I'm 100% pro-life though. I don't think any human being should have the right to take the life of another human being... w/ the possible exception of self defense.

So there's no way I'm going to support anyone advocating for killing children.

Your op said to do this 'wonderful' plan even if you are married to the guy... but then you counter it w/ not 'needing' to do this if your man is decent... and several other contradictions.

I have to ask you... who the heck would PLAN to get pregnant to a man she could even for one second fathom would do the horrible things you've mentioned? Doing your 'document' idea would either be a... do it for every planned pregnancy no matter what... or the woman is actually planning a child w/ a jerk... and both of those possibilities are 100% ridiculous... making your document idea pointless.

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Abortions are not illegal.

Even though I am Christian, I am pro-choice
Because I think women who have been raped, or have other equally reasonable reasons for chosing an abortion, should have the option.

Even though I said in post "I would even consider," what I actually meant was, even "I" who leans somewhat against abortions in general might actually consider that (after what I have been through, out of I guess extreme fear of the man, and yes I do have ptsd from what my ex did)

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Shawn Lively wrote

" "I personally would even consider terminating without this signed agreement" AND in context, you were stating that, even if the man wouldn't consider blindly signing away all rights, you would advocate taking the child away (illegally) if it was what you deemed 'best'. "

Neo:
So think about this ....
This is happening all the time anyway. Women abort every day.
Women are aborting all the time.
Women often don't even think about having the baby for more than a second because of the lack of relationship and thus potential nightmare of having any link to the man involved with it.
Maybe because there is no such thing as a written document protecting what intentions would be.
Maybe there would be a lot less abortions if there was some written agreement about how things would be going.
Maybe such an agreement would facilitate less abortions, and im sure in many cases there would be a possibility for the man to be involved with the mother and child, that could be more safely attempted where there is an agreement in place. A woman might be more willing to go through with the pregnancy and might be more willing to give a relationship with the man a chance, without fear of the more I give this man, the more he is entitled to by the courts and law to take. The agreement makes sense for men in the way that they get more when women aren't scared that the more women give them, the more he can steal. And for pre-nups same idea and vice versa man or woman

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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It's not about you... it's about the CHILD! And 50% of that child's DNA comes from the father... 50% of who that child IS... comes from the father.

And what planet are you from where women used to start w/ 0%. It used to be the mother automatically got custody (w/out a very good reason against it) until people started realizing that keeping a child away from his/her father damages the CHILD.

Again... it's not about the mother... or the father... it's about the KID.

I have 3 kids growing up w/out a father... so I see it every day. And yes, they are doing well... because I do my best to make sure of it and keep them close to other positive male role models and make their lives as 'normal' as humanly possible, but the FACT is that kids generally do better in all aspects of life when they have a good and equal relationship w/ BOTH parents.

You should probably quit while you are behind here... cuz your rewrite didn't help your case one bit.

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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I really would like to be able to re-write my original post better than i did, but too late. I am very inexperienced at starting an online discussion. I'll will put more effort into it next time I try to start a discussion with more focus on what I intended the actual subject to be.

To be more clear I was NOT talking about the good decent men, who the good mother knows, about access.

Actually it is many of the good decent men that are the men who are interested on signing a pre-conceive agreement. Their intentions can be written into it as well, no one said it couldn't. Anything can be written into the agreement. Both sides

What that might look like for some producers of children however bigger or smaller or equal their part.

Every case is different, not everyone wants the same things obviously.
In some cases the pre-conceive agreement maybe it's the woman's way of saying her intention is to keep the family together. All together. That could be written into the agreement too. I can't change the original post and add all that can be written in agreement.

Of course every document is going to be different based in the individuals involved. My point is there should be something in writing that describes what the original agreement was so that not even fading memories can erase it if that is something that is important to either contributor to the production of the child.

I don't see anything wrong with having a document ahead of time that says at the time I wouldn't have had the child (everything I sacrificed) if this was going to happen. Do you think that just goes without saying? No it does not.

I have been speaking about this document from women's benefit perspective but it really could also assist the well intentioned men. If women and men want to start repairing their differences, maybe this is a good place to start. Having clear agreements that are documented in writing at time of agreement. Too many women and men on both sides are getting suckered/being suckers is all, and it leaves men and women hating each other. With clear agreements, no one gets shafted, less hate produced, women and men move toward repairing their differences.

I was talking about men who, other than sperm, were uninvolved, men who don't even try with the mother, men who go straight to the court and who lie, didn't contribute at all during pregnancy, or little, and men who are reckless, and don't think about what is best for the child. Ie like a man who wants to get a newborn infant 50% of the time when it will mean interrupting the nursing of the baby, men who are misogynists, and have no respect for women in general, or for the good mother of the child.

Again, I was NOT talking about the good decent men, who the good mother knows, about access.

I do know there are many mothers and fathers who can be separated or divorced and successfully and healthily co-parent. That is not who or what I am talking about.

To be more specific about what women I am talking about, I am talking about good women who are good people, with good intentions, maybe were good wives, or maybe they are single, and are good mothers or intend to be good mothers.

And I am saying these women would be better off documenting in a legally recognized pre-conceive agreement as much of what the original intention and agreement was at the time of conceiving. That's all.

That is really the only point I really wanted to promote and discuss.

But I am also interested in this 50/50 as a starting point idea, (i guess its better than what we women used to have which was 0%,) but is 50/50 really good enough? is it really fair? have we reached a fair balance at 50/50? my answer is No.
I think it is not really a fair starting point for a woman who is either a good mother, or was a good wife, or who remained a single person, and planned on having a the child with the notion that she would be raising it, in a contained family environment, not a split up family which can end up being strangers raising her child, whoever the man choses.

I am saying 50/50 doesn't make sense as a starting point. And I posted a list of a few of the reasons why, which maybe ill grab and put here too when I have time.
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Post grab:
I don't think many women would be having any kids if they thought for a second at the time of deciding to become pregnant or to keep a pregnancy, that someday very soon they may break up and the man may be taking the baby/child from her, at the times that he chooses, not her, and raising the child a minimum of 50% of the time in any which way he pleases, and with whomever he chooses, which all will be none of the birth mother's business. Nope.
I doubt she is prepared, that it is even a thought in her head that she could have to spend all her equity and borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal process just so she can get her child 50% of the time, and have any say at all at when that time will be. Nope. I don't think women would go through the pregnancy, etc., and all that men do not, if they knew that could and does happen and how often.
That's why I don't agree that it is 50/50 once the child comes out.
What about all the woman sacrificed that the man did not? Her body? (Her body is forever changed, no matter how much exercise she does... again a lot of time and extra exercise that the man does not have to do, again loss of career opportunity time and income) Her health? Her biological constitution growing and nursing the baby? The whole pregnancy, the birth, the risking her life, Her time raising up the baby? Her loss of income? her loss of opportunity? Her total forever loss of lifetime opportunity in many areas is forever changed, and after even one child only is irrecoverable. So I am also referring especially to men who provided nothing for her during the pregnancy and nursing and infant stage raising? Seems odd to me that a man can come along and take the baby/young child 50%. But it happens all the time to perfectly good mothers. It's horrifying to a mother who has bonded and dedicated herself to the young infant or young child's well being and development and regular schedule, often sacrificing her work opportunities to be s stay at home mom, or a large chunk of her income on childcare when she does work.
When the child is forcibly or coercively removed for any % of time, many of the bonds and connections that the mother had with her child are forever injured, some severed, and changed when this happens. The bonds and connections cannot be the same, those ones are gone, and only new ones that are not nearly the same replace them. It's not healthy for the child.
Women have the womb and the breasts for a reason.
There's an umbilical cord for a reason, and a scar where it was for a reason.
Women aren't just pods for men's use and abuse, to be discarded once they get what they want out of them.
It isn't just woman has baby and then free for all whatever man and court decide after woman has spent all her time and all this I have mentioned and more on the pregnancy, fetus, infant, and child.
Men and courts know women don't have money to stand up for their rights in court. outside of court, women end up settling for whatever the man will agree to of her argument and allow her if he is merciful at all, under threat of that he will just go to the court and take whatever he wants and more if she doesn't agree. Again costing her all her life's equity, money and opportunity and time just to hang on to a shred of the child she produced.
While she was pregnant, and couldn't work at her optimum, he could, so unless he is lazy, (often likely for these types,) he is likely to have more money ready for court than her.
Only if the man doesn't have any money either, does she have a chance, but the disruption in her life is very costly, and right at a time when she is biologically constitutionally weak from having been nurturing a fetus and a newborn, (the child is not grown solely from the food we eat, the woman's whole body is used to grow the baby and nurse the baby) It is ruthless what some men are putting some mothers of infants and young children through.
But obviously I should be posting in the single mothers section if I am looking for women to agree with me. Except I'm not looking for women to agree with me. I'm looking to help mother's and mother's to be with their perspectives and their rights BEFORE this happens to them. As it will happen to a certain percentage of all the women who read this.
And the ladies who are in the percentage of women who are not going to end up divorced while raising young children don't have to worry about these things ahead of time. Problem is you really never know what side of that percentage you are on, until it happens. I don't think many women plan on their marriage failing.
So also I am not a male basher. I love men. I have high respect for many men. I am talking about men who try to force to get the kids from a good mother, or who was also a good wife and good mother, when she is not comfortable, and it's not fair.
Of course every situation is different.
-----------------------------------
But my point was that based on all the more women must sacrifice just to carry a baby, etc etc etc, that men do not 50/50 as a starting point sounds to me like good women are extending and giving way too much, like women often graciously do.
Maybe once men start carrying the pregnancy and giving birth and nursing the baby I will agree with 50/50 after child is born. Maybe men will appreciate women more when they experience all it takes.

When men can do be the ones to get pregnant and do all the extra time, exercises, life time Keigls, loss of income, loss of career opportunities, loss of relationship opportunities, loss of life opportunities, etc, maybe even plastic surgery, etc, everything it takes to make a baby and your body and life be just as well off as if you had been the man, and hadn't had to deal with any of it, then ya sure 50/50.
Can only discuss one thing at a time.
Alot of other factors not written here of course.
And but of course every situation is different, I just want to discuss ideas based on trends I see, attitudes i see, and I don't want to fight with anyone.
I also understand no one wants to start a war with men they are rightfully afraid of.
lis -insecure ....again not talking about the good decent men.

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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Any man that would agree to that is a straight up moron... and any woman that would make him sign it or kill her child (abort)... needs serious psychological help.

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Pre-conceive agreements, and or sperm donor agreements, and or post-conceive/pre-abort agreements is simply having some of the intention at the time of the agreement to have a child documented, similar to a pre-nuptual agreement where some of the intention at the time of the agreement to marry is documented.

Sarah - posted on 09/30/2014

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Wow Neo, you have obviously been through a long painful journey. I am glad you have your kids and I hope you are all getting the help you need. In answer to your question, no I don't believe that a sperm donor agreement is appropriate for every conception.
Sure, there are time that it is, when a woman chooses to become a parent by herself, and needs the help of a donor.
You are so hurt and angry that I think no matter how many positive stories of excellant husbands and fathers will change your mind, yet. I hope for you, someday, that you meet someone who is gentle and kind and challenges you to be a better person too.
Until then, take good care of yourself and your kids and try to let go of some of your anger, it's only holding you back from moving on wit your life.

Dove - posted on 09/30/2014

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OK... now that I read most of it I can tell you won't like my first response at all. What you went through is not common. MOST men are decent human beings and good fathers.... same as most women are decent human beings and good mothers... but there are psychopaths in both genders. What you are advising based solely on your experience is WRONG... 100%. I urge you (and your children) to seek professional help immediately. Your children have been dealt a very, very raw deal, but they do NOT have to be damaged beyond repair. Healing IS possible... for all of you.

Dove - posted on 09/30/2014

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All I did was read your first sentence or two... and NO! A child is only 50% of you... and 50% of his/her father. Children have a right to an equal opportunity at a relationship with BOTH of their parents. Period. Maybe at some point today I will have the patience to read the rest of your dialogue.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 09/30/2014

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Wow, seriously? YOU made the choice to be involved with the man (or men) who've caused your personal problems.

Personally, I completely disagree. CHILDREN ARE NOT COMMODITIES, AND CHILDREN ARE NOT THE SOLE POSSESSION OF THE MOTHER.

Plus, in my experience, at least, the fathers that I know are MUCH better parents than some of the mothers...

Perhaps you'd benefit from some counseling, rather than advocating illegal actions and kidnapping your children to 'save them' from the 'bad men' that you perceive to be around every corner and behind every door.

Gena - posted on 09/30/2014

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I dont agree. What about all those mothers who hurt their children,let them starve while they are on drugs,or mothers who drown their children in the bath(talking about Yates) or mothers who are just not capable of looking after their child?? I am sorry for what you are going through,its horrible. But what has happened to you does NOT happen in every family. I hope you are seing a therapist and that they can help you.Good luck

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