Is this sleeping problem something else?

Jenn - posted on 12/03/2009 ( 50 moms have responded )

0

0

0

My daughter is 3 years old, she is very hyper an hard to keep her focused, always running from one activity to another seems like every 6 minutes lol. She will be playing with toys then running to her room to turn on her tv to watch a movie then running back to the living room to color then back to her room.. an I guess you can see where all this leads for the rest of our day. Its difficult to get her to sit down for more than 5 minutes. So at the end of the day you would think that she goes right to sleep from all the activity? Well this where my question comes in. She does not sleep, she is up all night till the brink of exhaustion then falls asleep. We has our routine that she has had since a baby for bed time, she gets not juice 2 hrs before bed only water I have tried waking her up early in the morning but she is literally a dead log, nothing got her up. I was talking to her, shaking her arms a little I even picked her up an tried to get her to open her eyes but all she did was go back to sleep.. dead weight. I asked her doctor but he says its "normal".. really? Cause this doesn't seem normal. Its like she can't shut down her brain or something in order to go to sleep, like she is constantly got her on switch flipped up. By the time she gets into a deep sleep its time to get up!. But then she acts like she got 13 hrs of sleep, hyper an running around. When I do manage to get her to sleep at a somewhat decent hour she doesn't stay asleep she is up only hours later. I don't think her Ped.is taking me seriously when I tell him this.. Is this normal? or is this a sign of something like ADHD.. or sleep apnea? or something else??!! HELP! I am desperate for a good nights sleep!!

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Kathy Clements - posted on 12/06/2009

1

0

0

Dear Jenn,
I would suggest keeping a sleep log for about 2 weeks. Take this in to your Doctors and show them her patterns. See what they have to say. Sometimes if things are documented they will take you more seriously. Hope this helps!

Nicole - posted on 12/03/2009

41

64

6

Hey there, sounds like you need a BED TIME ROUTINE!! My son was a shocking sleeper because I never could read the warning signs of over tiredness. (first time mum!). I have now been implementing a wind down routine since hes was 2 he is now 3 1/2.
6:00 - 6:30 pm - Dinner (and i make everyone sit at the table to eat dinner together.)
6:30 - 7:00 pm - Playtime (usually consists of a little tv or quiet playing0
7:00 - 7:15 pm - bathtime with lots of bubbles
7:15 - 7:30 pm - pyjamas on and brushing of teeth
7:30 - ?? pm - Roughly 15 to 20 mins of in bed reading or conversation about which toy gets the privilege of sleeping with him that night (lol)
7:45 pm - Night light goes on kisses and hugs then i put on some classical music (you can buy cds designed especially for putting children to sleep)
Then Shut the door and walk away!!!!!
If your child gets up and knocks on the door after you have left return to them and tell them it is sleep time and place back in their bed. Do this ONLY ONCE. Every time after the initially get up return them to bed without saying a word! nine out of ten times they do it only for your attention. If you do not give them your attention and place them into bed without out speaking they will soon learn that getting out of bed is not giving them the attention they want.
It took me about 5 nights to get my son to understand the routine and he got the wind down he needed b4 hoping into bed. I hope this helps if it doesn't then maybe your child has an underlying medical problem and needs to see not 1 but as many doctors as it takes for someone to actually hear you when you say your child has a sleeping problem.
Good luck!

Renae - posted on 12/03/2009

2,209

23

156

Hi Jenn,



It is hard to comment without observing the behaviour for myself. In some ways her "hyper" behaviour sounds like a perfectly normal 3 year old. Running from one thing to the next with a very short attention span... that is perfectly normal.



But, it actually sounds to me like she is OVER-tired. When kids are tired, they go through a phase where they are most likely to fall asleep, this is when they are just starting to get tired but not exhausted. If they don't go to sleep at that time, they get a "second wind" and become over-hyper, easily excitable and run around like a mad person, literally. I think that when she acts like she got 13 hours sleep, she is actually very tired. When you say she can't switch her brain off, that also makes me think she is tired, kids have trouble shutting down when they are over-tired. And when she is finally in a deep sleep you can't wake her at all, again sounds like over-tiredness. The problem is though, if she is stuck in a cycle of tiredness, how do you get out of it.



Can you try to get her to have an afternoon nap? What time will depend when she gets up. If she gets up around 7am, she would normally need a nap around 1pm. You will have to decide when she gets to the point where she is actually tired, but not over-tired. Could you try putting her in bed and talking to her until she falls asleep? It will probably take an hour for her to go to sleep the first week but should improve after that. If you can get her to have a sleep in the afternoon, I think she will find it easier to go to bed at night.



It could still be ADHD, it is impossible to know without having her examined by a PSYCHOLOGIST NOT A GP OR PED! It's not sleep apnea, that is something very different.



I also dont think your doc is taking you seriously enough. Doc's like to ignore the comments of 1st time mums and assume that our problem is our expectations were wrong. They need to stop assuming all 1st time mums know nothing.



Try a psych and another doc.

50 Comments

View replies by

Shannintipton - posted on 12/03/2011

36,025

50

681

I bet you have it figured out by now. So what do you think it was? Just wondering. :)

Chrissy - posted on 12/01/2011

20

12

0

I read this book "healthy sleep habits, happy child" which was written by a ped that studied sleep cyles and disorders. He has lots of great tips for some of your probs like the constantly getting out of bed issue and he explains about how over tired kids become hyper with short attention spans. With more sleep she will be able to focus longer. I know what your going through because I'm having issues with my 2yr old doing the same thing at night only she is not hyper during the day. However, after reading all your posts and responses I saw that you said she snores and snorts or coughs in her sleep. This is described in his book under the sleep disorder catergory. He said it's sleep apnea or enlarged adnoids. He says its from the relaxing of the throat that the airway becomes partially blocked and that causes the child not to be able to enter a deep sleep many times. Also when they do sometimes they stop breathing for short periods of time and thus the snort is them kind of gasping for air and starting to breath again. Take her to a sleep specialist. It really sounds like that could be the problem to me.

Christine - posted on 12/11/2009

1

0

0

Hello Jenn,

I been reading your post and all that have followed. There's some really good advice here. I'd like to add a few things though:

Add to your log, make it a food/activity/sleep journal, almost a running record of her daily and nightly activities.

Add weight to her play if she can handle a backpack put some weight in it, if she pushes boxes make them heavy, if she carries groceries have her carry the cans. By adding weight to the activity you give the muscles resistance and tire the muscles out.

Most active children burn calories at alarming rates, eating protein snacks every 2 hours is closer to the norm.

I have worked with some children that have to remove milk from their diet to sleep at night.

Check out the book "the out of sync child" see if other quirks go with the lack of sleep.

Hope this helps, good luck to you!

Jodi - posted on 12/11/2009

12

23

0

I don't think your peditrician is taking you seriously. I recall reading somewhere in one of those fancy child expert books that a child her age should have at least 10-14 hours of sleep. But now days, it seems like everyone is quick to say ADHD and prescribe medication. In my opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion), I'd look for other reasons for this hyperactivity, such as thyroid and/or hormonal before I'd be putting an amphetamine type drug in my child for a misdiagnoses of ADHD. Maybe looking into a specialist as a pediatric endocrinologist, which can deal with thyroid and all sorts of hormone imbalances. Sleep apnea...your child would be staying fatigued during the day, not hyper, at least that is how it is with adults. I am in the medical profession, however, I don't work with pediatrics and don't claim to know anything about the little body's of kids, but I definitely think you have a right to be majorly concerned and I definitely think I'd be looking elsewhere for a 2nd opinion, in the form of a MD, not a psychologist (not until every medical condition is ruled out, at least).

Jenn - posted on 12/10/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Renae:

Jenn, I have just looked at your responses to what everyone has said and for the first time since I joined COM, I am out of ideas! You seem to be doing everything right.

I think you need a child behaviourist to come and observe her and help you sort this out. Your GP should be able to refer you to one. They generally come and spend an afternoon/evening with you and watch her behaviour, then draw up a behavioural management plan.

Kathy's idea of a sleep log is a fantastic idea (I should have thought of that) and it will help any doc or psych you see to see what is going on.

I am agreeing with Teri again, I seem to agree with her alot tonight! What she says about lack of sleep is true. But don't stress over it, children are also incredibly resilient, but I do think you need to try to get to the bottom of it.

I'm here if you want to throw around any ideas or discuss anything further.


Hi Renae,



thank you for your support, I have started the sleep journal last week actually and we are having a "meeting" with her doctor next week. She was seem twice by a child behaviororist a while ago should I take her to see one again? The first time I was told it was becuase she was just off a schedual an possible ADHD ( Daddy had ADHD as a child and has adult ADD now). Should I get a second oppinion? Her plan did not work to well and I am believein now she got the wrong impression on what is wrong in the sence in this situation.

YeÅŸim - posted on 12/09/2009

3

0

0

Quoting Nicole:

Hey there, sounds like you need a BED TIME ROUTINE!! My son was a shocking sleeper because I never could read the warning signs of over tiredness. (first time mum!). I have now been implementing a wind down routine since hes was 2 he is now 3 1/2.
6:00 - 6:30 pm - Dinner (and i make everyone sit at the table to eat dinner together.)
6:30 - 7:00 pm - Playtime (usually consists of a little tv or quiet playing0
7:00 - 7:15 pm - bathtime with lots of bubbles
7:15 - 7:30 pm - pyjamas on and brushing of teeth
7:30 - ?? pm - Roughly 15 to 20 mins of in bed reading or conversation about which toy gets the privilege of sleeping with him that night (lol)
7:45 pm - Night light goes on kisses and hugs then i put on some classical music (you can buy cds designed especially for putting children to sleep)
Then Shut the door and walk away!!!!!
If your child gets up and knocks on the door after you have left return to them and tell them it is sleep time and place back in their bed. Do this ONLY ONCE. Every time after the initially get up return them to bed without saying a word! nine out of ten times they do it only for your attention. If you do not give them your attention and place them into bed without out speaking they will soon learn that getting out of bed is not giving them the attention they want.
It took me about 5 nights to get my son to understand the routine and he got the wind down he needed b4 hoping into bed. I hope this helps if it doesn't then maybe your child has an underlying medical problem and needs to see not 1 but as many doctors as it takes for someone to actually hear you when you say your child has a sleeping problem.
Good luck!


 

Renae - posted on 12/09/2009

2,209

23

156

Jenn, I have just looked at your responses to what everyone has said and for the first time since I joined COM, I am out of ideas! You seem to be doing everything right.



I think you need a child behaviourist to come and observe her and help you sort this out. Your GP should be able to refer you to one. They generally come and spend an afternoon/evening with you and watch her behaviour, then draw up a behavioural management plan.



Kathy's idea of a sleep log is a fantastic idea (I should have thought of that) and it will help any doc or psych you see to see what is going on.



I am agreeing with Teri again, I seem to agree with her alot tonight! What she says about lack of sleep is true. But don't stress over it, children are also incredibly resilient, but I do think you need to try to get to the bottom of it.



I'm here if you want to throw around any ideas or discuss anything further.

Teri - posted on 12/09/2009

130

9

4

oh, one more thing...lack of sleep is something to be very concerned about. Sleep is when kids write what they've learned to their memories. if a child does not sleep well it really can hinder them cognitively.

Teri - posted on 12/09/2009

130

9

4

Have you ever looked into the Feingold Diet? don't be scared by the ADHD moniker (http://www.feingold.org -- many parents see hyperactive behavior in their kids and it can be linked directly to foods that they eat. Many kids are sensitive to food dyes, preservatives, etc. you may have an easy fix just by testing out some foods.

Neasha - posted on 12/09/2009

1

73

0

One of my twins is that way and what seems to work in his case is that 9:30-ALL LIGHTS OUT. Meaning that EVERYONE in the house has to go to bed and after about and hour or so of tossing and turning and playing with his hand & feet he goes to sleep. I never knew the importance of a nap and absolute silence when a child is sleeping. Some children are very light sleepers. So any type of sound could wake them upor when too many things are going on they just can't sleepI say before you have you kid checked for anything (she's only 3) try doin this for 30 days and see what happens.
1-Give child lot fruits in the am
2-Child must take a nap or lay still quietly for at least 1 hour
*where ever child is napping or resting it must be quiet, free of any access to toys, no TV or radio.
*and mom/dad must be in the same vacinity to keep the child calm and remind them that they must take a nap
3-Once child is sleep absolutely no loud constant noises during this time
4-Expect child to wake up within 45 minutes to an hour
Remember to give your child lots of fruits and veggies to eat and too drink 100% pure juice (nothing that has sugar added if you can help it)
for me my kids have to go outside to some one's playground EVERYDAY and just run & run & run & run until they just can't anymore. Try this before you see a therapist

Janet - posted on 12/06/2009

7

38

0

My daughter does this to sometimes. I put her bed at 8, but do not go to sleep until about one hour and half later. Maybe she should just have quiet time instead of napping. i noticed that when my daughter do not want to sleep, by bed time 800 she is out. When she start preschool i think this might wear her out. When i pick my daughter from preschool she always says i am tired but do not take a nap sometimes. LOL! Still do not think it is ADHD. I think it is just short attention span and she full of energy. I can related to you Jenn, because does some of the same things your daughter does.

Janet - posted on 12/06/2009

7

38

0

Quoting Jenn:



Quoting Janet:

I got a 3 year old daughter who is energetic to. I will not say she ADHD Jenn. Is she in preschool? What time does she goes to bed? Is she in a routine? Maybe a reading a book will help go to sleep. I cannot get my daughter to sit down to do activity for along period of time either. It is call short attention span, not ADHD. I do think this about my daughter sometimes but i watch another kids her age and see the same thing. I think she will grown out of it like my daughter will.





No she is not in preschool yet she starts in the fall. She is put ot bed at 8pm, but what time she is actually asleep is different, hours later. We have the same routine she had since she was a baby. I try to read to her before bed but she can't sit still long enough to listen, its gets frusterating. I have been trying having her sit with me or daddy before bed and that seemd to work for the last few nights, she has been asleep by 9. Tonight however is a different story she is up now actually. We are back to the nap time at noon, but I dont know if it is really helping.





 

Cheryl - posted on 12/06/2009

1

26

0

Hi Jenn, I wish you all the luck in the world I know it's not easy hearing everyone elses' opinions, but both my son and daughter had some issues up until they also had their tonsils and adnoids removed. Also my daughter used to bounce off the walls, couldn't even get her to stay sitting in her chair @ dinner, come to find out as soon as I took the nite light and lite from her gecko tank out of her room at nite so it was completely dark, she slept so much sounder and much more restful, no more bouncing off walls. Studies have shown that REM sleep is better and more successful in the dark, then if there are any lights on even the smallest night light can disturb the sleep pattern. Good luck to you and her and the rest of your family, it is hard and you are going to need all the support you can get. I would also check into that new PED as well, find one that will listen that is very important this is your baby after all and you only want what is best!!!!

Kathy - posted on 12/05/2009

688

32

24

Quoting Karen:

Is she bored? In addition to other things going on it could be that she is simply bored. Maybe she's past the toys, puzzles, books, games at home and is looking for something more challenging. I know that my oldest Brother was a handful in School because he was bored and once the teacher let him work as quickly as he needed and then read a book while waiting for the other kids to catch up it was a much better situation. She also might need more of a schedule / challenge at home. At 3 she is old enough (and close enough to the ground!) to maybe take a dust rag / Swiffer and go around the house and dust the low surfaces (you know, things like baseboards, under tables, under chairs) that you don't ever get to. That could be her chore and give her something constructive to run to. When my DD was that age she thought that that was the coolest thing. She can also help sort laundry into piles, try folding a few things - I have memories of helping my Mom do that when I was that age. She also could just be 3! Are there story times at the library that she could go to? Could she take a kiddie tumbling / activity class through Community Ed? A friend of mine has an active, very bright 3 year old who LOVES that she has "school" to go to just like her Big Sis.


My brother was like that too, he self taught himself to read at 3, was always hyper, and I mean he'd spin circles in the living room run, and never stopped. He was very bright and in grade one used to get in trouble for having the work done before the teacher finished going over what to do. It wasn't until parent teacher interviews that the teacher started letting him read a book at the back if his work was done before the others because my mom didn't want him to get discouraged when he did a good job by getting into trouble.

Jenn - posted on 12/05/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Nadine:

For the sleep issue, I use Chamomille for my youngest. He's 3 as well. He used to be up to 10 or 11 at night, it was awful. It must be working because he falls asleep much faster now. Also heard a Calcium & magnesium supplement works to calm a child. This is talked about in the article I posted. Read that kids with ADD/ADHD are deficient in magnesium. Hope you find some answers!


She takes vitamins every morning, and I make sure she gets her fruits and veggies everyday. Which isnt hard they are her favorite food to snack on :)

Jenn - posted on 12/05/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Janet:

I got a 3 year old daughter who is energetic to. I will not say she ADHD Jenn. Is she in preschool? What time does she goes to bed? Is she in a routine? Maybe a reading a book will help go to sleep. I cannot get my daughter to sit down to do activity for along period of time either. It is call short attention span, not ADHD. I do think this about my daughter sometimes but i watch another kids her age and see the same thing. I think she will grown out of it like my daughter will.


No she is not in preschool yet she starts in the fall. She is put ot bed at 8pm, but what time she is actually asleep is different, hours later. We have the same routine she had since she was a baby. I try to read to her before bed but she can't sit still long enough to listen, its gets frusterating. I have been trying having her sit with me or daddy before bed and that seemd to work for the last few nights, she has been asleep by 9. Tonight however is a different story she is up now actually. We are back to the nap time at noon, but I dont know if it is really helping.

Jenn - posted on 12/05/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Janet:

I got a 3 year old daughter who is energetic to. I will not say she ADHD Jenn. Is she in preschool? What time does she goes to bed? Is she in a routine? Maybe a reading a book will help go to sleep. I cannot get my daughter to sit down to do activity for along period of time either. It is call short attention span, not ADHD. I do think this about my daughter sometimes but i watch another kids her age and see the same thing. I think she will grown out of it like my daughter will.


No she is not in preschool yet she starts in the fall. She is put ot bed at 8pm, but what time she is actually asleep is different, hours later. We have the same routine she had since she was a baby. I try to read to her before bed but she can't sit still long enough to listen, its gets frusterating. I have been trying having her sit with me or daddy before bed and that seemd to work for the last few nights, she has been asleep by 9. Tonight however is a different story she is up now actually. We are back to the nap time at noon, but I dont know if it is really helping.

Janet - posted on 12/05/2009

7

38

0

I got a 3 year old daughter who is energetic to. I will not say she ADHD Jenn. Is she in preschool? What time does she goes to bed? Is she in a routine? Maybe a reading a book will help go to sleep. I cannot get my daughter to sit down to do activity for along period of time either. It is call short attention span, not ADHD. I do think this about my daughter sometimes but i watch another kids her age and see the same thing. I think she will grown out of it like my daughter will.

N - posted on 12/05/2009

8

12

0

For the sleep issue, I use Chamomille for my youngest. He's 3 as well. He used to be up to 10 or 11 at night, it was awful. It must be working because he falls asleep much faster now. Also heard a Calcium & magnesium supplement works to calm a child. This is talked about in the article I posted. Read that kids with ADD/ADHD are deficient in magnesium. Hope you find some answers!

N - posted on 12/05/2009

8

12

0

My youngest son can have this problem if I give him sugar of any kind. He can't focus or sit still after drinking juice, cereal with any sugar in it, pancakes syrup, etc. I would cut all sugar out of her diet. Also, does your child get any outside time? I notice that if we get outside and take a walk or go to the park, he is a different kid. He is so calm and listens well after the exercise.

I've gotten no where with conventional doctors. All they want to do is drug, drug my child. Occasionally they've given me hints. My son also has food allergies so that can cause problems with behavior as well.

Check out this article-

http://www.herbalpharmacist.com/index.ph...

Nancy - posted on 12/05/2009

1

6

0

There is a natural sleep aid at your local drugstore called MELATONIN. I am not sure of the dosage but my son does not sleep well either and has been diagnosed with ADHD. He has been on medication for the ADHD for the last five years and the Dr. also gave me medicine to help him sleep as well, but I do not like all this man made medication. So I opted for an alternative so that we could both get a good nights sleep. I asked my pharmacist for a natural sleepling aid for my child, he was 5 then. He directed me to the MELATONIN. I told him my child's weight and he told me a suggested dose, I did not want to give too much, I started using the MELATONIN with a small glass of milk right after bathtime. He slept like a baby and woke up in the morning refreshed. I did not have to use it long before he got into a routine and he sleeps like a baby most all nights now. Every once in a while I have to get it out and give him some at bedtime, it takes about 20 mins and he is out. Try it sounds like to me she may be a little bit ADD OR ADHD. It is too soon to test her for either she has to be at least in Kindergarten before she can be tested by computer or a Parent/Teacher Connor's Rating scale worksheet. I was told by my son's prescool and headstart teacher's that he needed this done in Kindergarten. Good Luck I hope you both the best!!!
God bless !

Dawn - posted on 12/05/2009

4

9

0

It deffinatly sounds like a form of add or adhd. First I would try diet.If not I would go to a phycologist & have her tested. My daughter is 12 now she was diagnosed when she was 5 with add. She ate very well not alot of suger so I knew something was up. My ped. doc. helped me, so maybe if they don't beleive you might need to switch.I hope all works out for you I know it's not easy.

Kylie-Anne - posted on 12/04/2009

2

24

0

hi jenn,
i would take her to the pediatrician and see if she has ADD or ADHD
or try rescue remedy one of my boys is like that and he has ADHD
actually all 3 of my boys have ADHD so i got the jackpot there lol
hope u sort it out as it can be exhausting for you to
hugz
kylie

YeÅŸim - posted on 12/04/2009

3

0

0

There is a routine I tried with my two children since the day they were born , well almost I started 10 days after they were born.

Every nignt after the dinner they took a bath or played in the bath tubfor about 15 or 20 minutes or even 30 if I was not tired or the kids were feeling well and happy.

Then I took them to their bed - they sleept in their own beds since the first day because this also important. They didn't have toys or anything in their bedrooms. Just their beds for them to sleep in and some classical music or some nice stories they would listen to from the cd player.

I usualy left them in their rooms alone with the music or the story. Eventualy they always fell asleep sometimes even before the end of the story. They knew that it was their time to sleep and the bedroom was only for sleeping.

I also baby sat some other children before I had my own. They stood up when their parents were at home or around. But whenever the parents were out for dinner or for some other activity I was able to put the kids to sleep by 9 o'clock the latest. The mother couldn't ever believed I was able to do that. But I was doing was they were putting their pjs on after a glass of milk I was reading a story for them and then I was turning all the lights of and pretending that I was sleeping too. Knowing that there was nothing interesting or exciting going on after that they were falling asleep and I was free in 15 minutes the most.

So I think your daughter wants to stay up with you because those are the times she can get your attention and kids always go so far as to abuse attention.

so you might start your routine after 7 or 8 .
You could give your daughter a nice bath just to relax her. Wrap her in her towel give her a hug calm her sooth her by telling a story ar hummning something. Be very gentle don't ever play tickling games or so , so would startle her up.

Let her know that she has to go to sleep son. Ofcourse she will try to test you. Never give in. Even if she tries to get up or so. Just consistently tell her that it is time to go to sleep. tell her that you are tired too and it is time for you to go to bed and sleep. And do so. Turn the lights of go to bed with your night gown. It might take a week ar two but I bet that after two weeks you will have your nights to yourself. And your daughter will get a good nights sleep and will not be so hyped up in the morning. Remember that the less kids sleep the more hyper they get. Don't ever expect them to get tired and go to sleep by thenselves. And limit the interesting activities in the house if she can roam about in the house in that age ofcourse she will be thiinking of all the interesting and exciting activities in the house and she will run from one activity to another. You might also give her guided or controled activities. You can say after youfinish playing with your dough let's say I will give you a puzzle to make. Reward her with words or an other activity if she can complete an activity. Your child seems to be very independent in the house do not leave her toys in places where she can reach . Make her come and ask you for a different so you can have control over.

This is alleasy to say but I bet it will work!!!

Just be insistent and don't let her rule the house and you. Kids needs to know their limits and actualy they like limits because they need them to feel secure.

I know you can handle this. Good luck MUM.

Pam - posted on 12/04/2009

51

0

1

First of all put her in someone else's hands a while so you can get a break. If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! Get a friend/neighbor/sitter to take her & make observations. Get her in a preschool/co-op/mom's day out program and ask those in charge what they see.

Yes, get behavior modification advice from ADHD info and use it if it helps, check with doctors mentioned for sleep, diet, medical probs (and ditch that snotty, unhelpful pediatrician). Also check allergy meds for possible side effects, ask about sensitivity issues & autism spectrum disorders. Some kids are extra-sensitive to touch/textures, light or sound--like the hum of fluorescent lights--& it drives them crazy.

Do something where she can exhaust herself & breathe deeply (local pool, running outside, Discovery Zone, big playground).

Tip for earaches+: Use surgical tape to hold garlic cloves (cut to fit) in her ears at night. Sounds weird, but nearly free, though odoriferous, way to eliminate or ease ear/nose/throat problems & it really works. Use new ones each night. Even cured ear infections for me & my babies w/in a week.

My son & I both have ADHD, my daughter didn't need more than 5 hours sleep at night as a child & no naps, but she sleeps extremely soundly. Son napped but was constantly on the go at hyper speed when awake, light sleeper at night. All of us have grown into responsible, wonderful adults, though I've always been a night owl; it's just how I am.

Karen - posted on 12/04/2009

182

16

3

Is she bored? In addition to other things going on it could be that she is simply bored. Maybe she's past the toys, puzzles, books, games at home and is looking for something more challenging. I know that my oldest Brother was a handful in School because he was bored and once the teacher let him work as quickly as he needed and then read a book while waiting for the other kids to catch up it was a much better situation. She also might need more of a schedule / challenge at home. At 3 she is old enough (and close enough to the ground!) to maybe take a dust rag / Swiffer and go around the house and dust the low surfaces (you know, things like baseboards, under tables, under chairs) that you don't ever get to. That could be her chore and give her something constructive to run to. When my DD was that age she thought that that was the coolest thing. She can also help sort laundry into piles, try folding a few things - I have memories of helping my Mom do that when I was that age. She also could just be 3! Are there story times at the library that she could go to? Could she take a kiddie tumbling / activity class through Community Ed? A friend of mine has an active, very bright 3 year old who LOVES that she has "school" to go to just like her Big Sis.

Amy - posted on 12/04/2009

1,761

18

250

Wow, that's hard! I have ADHD, and to be honest it's VERY hard to get a diagnoses at 3 years old. Usually when they are in elementary school is the earliest many dr's will diagnoses as when they are younger they could just have lots of energy.

I have a 19 month old that sounds EXACTLY like her. Our son never slept through the night completely, and almost never takes any naps. Since I have ADHD we figured he has a good chance of having at least some aspect of it, however we wouldn't plan on testing him for a while.

It sounds like she's just active. Our son will "go to bed" around 8 however he plays in his room for a while, and wakes up at least twice at night to play, and is out to get us by 7 am. Some nights I've heard him playing all night, and refuses to take a nap. How much sugar does she get? We try to limit the amount of any sugger in our son and found that it helps a lot.

We also found that if he gets outside and has fresh air that it helps him sleep more. It's actually fun to watch him outside, all he dose is run around.

Also, if he gets too active at night, one thing we've been doing lately is forcing him to just sit on our lap, we'll hold him there, he may scream a bit at first, but we've found that he's been a little better at sitting then, and does calm down.

Baths have been found to be nice and relaxing for them, does she get a bath before bed?

Also, when she's getting tired, does she act like she's just trying to stay awake? Our son has never wanted to miss anything, so he just refuses to sleep. Something good is going to happing during nap time or in the middle of the night you know! Do you put your child to bed and stay up yourself? We've found that if I go to bed at the same time, or son will actually hear, and if he opens the door see that I'm laying in bed, he then decides he can at least stay in his room.

We wish he would calm down too, however he's healthy and happy. Even though he doesn't get the sleep we think he needs he seems to be ok with it, and as your dr said, it's perfectly normal for children to be active like that. Were glad he is because it's forcing us to have a healthy Active lifestyle.

Also, try taking her on a long walk, our son walked over a mile by himself and was so worn out bye the end he just sat down for a while and rested. Granted with a 3 year old you may need to go on more than a mile walk with her.

Carolyn - posted on 12/04/2009

208

25

11

If it is ADHD, Doctors do not like treatment until they get in school anyways. This does not always work. Proper diagnoses if necessary and proper supervision. If you are a stay at home mom? She may need more structure environment. A set schedule to get her mind organized. Have you tried letting her help around the house? Like sending her on a errand. Suggest lets help mommy day. Send her on short task, in supervised areas and see if she can follow your instructions after one time telling her. As she gets the hang of it, you could implement a timer. Like we are going to color for a full minute. Then increase slowly like a challenge for her. Kids with this much energy and mind constantly on the move. You will have to challenge her to keep her motivated and always looking for more to do. She needs the direction though, so I would start now and build slowly on her accomplishments. Hope this helps your day go smoother and maybe she will be focused enough to sleep, when she has a challenge to meet. Best of luck.

Karen - posted on 12/04/2009

182

16

3

Just thought of something else. In addition to the physical stuff to check out, how much of this is a reaction to your stress? I know that when my DD doesn't have a break and is 24/7 with me, it's very difficult to not be able to accomplish anything because I'm constantly answering questions, helping, etc. Some of her daily break / nap / whatever is to teach her to entertain herself (and I don't mean by plopping her in front of a movie / TV except very occasionally), and also to give you a mental break. She may be more active because she's sensing your stress and reacting to it.

Mandy - posted on 12/04/2009

1

20

0

This seems to be something... I always say, "trust your instincts as a mother." They are usually right! First things first.... get her to the pediatrician and let him know about this. If he/she blows you off and tells you, "she is fine", you tell the Dr. "something just doesn't seem right."

From there, you can take several routes. I am a mom of 4 ages (21,19,15, and 4). Three oldest are boys and last is a girl. I have always trusted my instincts. Mom knows best, because you are with your daughter more than anyone... so you know if something doesn't feel right. If it were me, I would take my daughter to the pediatrician first, and I would insist on some testing. When my 3rd son was a little older, I took him to a pediatric psychiatrist. She tested him for ADHD. YES, they can do testing. It was a computerized test where he had to sit and punch a button everytime he saw a light. (I wasn't in the room, but it sounded much like the test you go through at the eye doctor to test your peripheral vision). With all the video games, you would think a kid could master this, no prob!!! He failed! He was diagnosed with ADHD. He doesn't have the hyperactivity portion of it, but the attention deficit is there. Anyway.... back to you!! If she were mine, I would have her tested for ADHD, I would also take her to a reputable pediatric ENT and have her tonsils and adenoids checked, and ask them if they can tell if she is apnec. The pediatrician can advise on other areas........ Watch her while she is sleeping. Is she tossing and turning often, does she snore, does she take shallow breaths, etc...... these can be signs of a sleep disorder. Good luck to you and keep me updated. I don't get on "circle" very often, but saw this on my email. You may email me, if you want at mandysmith.1943@gmail.com. Good luck Jenn.

Karen - posted on 12/04/2009

182

16

3

There might be something physically wrong with her, I would definitely get it checked out for your own piece of mind. I would definitely not medicate for something like ADHD at 3 because she's also 3 y.o. and active - I'd hate to see her natural behavior stifled due to drugs. Her diet also could be an issue - some kids really react to dyes in foods, a friend of mine overreacts to Nyquil (major hyperness), she could be reacting to an allergen. One of the things that jumps out at me is the TV in her room. A 3 y.o. shouldn't have unlimited access to a TV - studies have shown that TV at this age actually trains the brain to have a shorter attention span. Plus, when she's older you will have a very hard time breaking the habit and you won't be able to properly monitor what she's watching (and the family will be more and more separate from each other). I don't agree that bed no later than 8:30 - DH doesn't get home until 7 so we have dinner at 7 and then my daughter and he have 2 hours together at night so bed is at 9. It defintely sounds like she's overtired. Yes, I know you tried the supernanny thing but maybe she's more strong-willed and able to stick it out for longer than you have the patience for (the climbing thing to get at what she wants was a clue for me to that). She definitely needs to have down time / quiet time during the day (and when she needs to sleep she will). If she doesn't want to nap or stay asleep it's because her body is now trained that way and it will take a lot more than a month to retrain. Could it be that you are not as firm as you think you are? (hard not to grin / smile / laugh when they are that age - it's so darn cute though frustrating!) Maybe a change of scenery - send her to Grandma's or an Aunt / Uncle for a weekend or week to break the cycle? Sometimes other people can get our kids to do things we can't and that will help with the retraining. It sounds like there are a few things going on here.

Heather - posted on 12/04/2009

32

16

2

My son has ADD. If she is not napping during the day and not on a good sleeping schedule at night (her body being more consistent with schedule) AND her little body should be exhausted from the running around and lack of focus, she might have ADHD. If she goes to daycare or a part day preschool, the teacher can tell you if her behavior is normal or if she is a little too distracted, unfocused, busy, etc... If she's not and you can afford it, send her to a good one with structure and give it a month for her to get settled and through the initial "testing the teacher" behaviors. In the state of Pennsylvania our schools have an IU (intermediate unit) with special needs professionals that might be able to answer your questions or lead you to someone who can. Other parents have called their local school district and told them that they suspect that their child might have ADHD and although their child is "3" they wanted to consult with someone trained in this area. Doctors didn't believe me either. Doctors, teachers, administrators, etc... get these things from parents all the time when their children are normal active toddler/preschoolers. You need to be armed with examples and the attitude that this is your first child, you have this problem, and you know you need someone to guide you through so you are doing what is in her best interests. Let them know that you understand that she just might be very active, but that you are concerned about her development and need to know if you need to get her early intervention. Let them know you are thirsty for knowledge (not meds). Good luck and God bless you both.

Lauren - posted on 12/04/2009

2

20

0

Sleep begets sleep. She needs to take a nap in the middle of the day. Limit TV, videos, computer games etc. they may be overstimulating. I Know your saying how will I get her to take a nap. Put her in her bed with nothing but a book to look at. Even if she doesn't sleep, insist on down time. To improve her ability to focus try playing with her. Games like memory, creating with play dough. It's important to do it with her and help her to focus. She will follow your lead. Next look at her diet. If she is eating a diet high in carbohydrates and sugar, she will have spikes in her blood sugar, and then when it wears off she will be moody or hyper. Children are not like adults, when they are tired, they sometimes become more hyperactive. Children need consistency. They need to eat every 4 hours a combination of carbs proteins. A nap or rest time every day. Bed time no later than 8:30. Put her in bed and insist she stays. Eventualy her internal clock will reset. Children with ADHD can be hyperactive at age 3. I would never recommend medications for a child this age. ADHD can be managed with other techniques. When she gets up at night, what do you do? She needs to learn to get herself back to sleep. Tell her she can get a book and look at it in bed but she may not get up and play with toys etc. Night time is for sleeping. I don't think there is anything wrong with your daughter. Try zero tolerence and consistency.
Good Luck
Lauren PNP

Linda - posted on 12/04/2009

10

9

1

Hi Jenn,

It is not always easy to get the professionals to listen to you. I personally would not consider it normal behavior, but I am not a Dr. just a grandmother. My daughter had a really hard time getting any help for middle son. She ended up asking to be referred to Dr. Pavri in London. Best thing she ever did. Dr. Pavri is so wonderful and patient. Her son has ADHD and he was not able to learn because he could not stop long enough to learn anything. He is doing much better now, and it is so much easier when you know what the problem so you can deal with it.

I wish you much luck

Linda

Isabelle - posted on 12/03/2009

1

20

0

Hi Jenn, I've read all the post about your situation. And none have addressed the diet issue. So, my first question to you is what does her diet look like? I'm asking because a lot of ADHD or other behavior problems are wrongly diagnosed and treated with pharmaceutical products. Some could be more easily treated if the child was given good nutritional supplements. In this case I would think good fat (Omega 3 and 6 fat) might help your daughter. Good fat has a direct effect on the brain and help develop it. My suggestion would be to try to find a good Naturopath. Someone that could explain to you how exactly it works and how good supplements would help your child. Again, I don't know what your daughter's diet is, but I think it's worth taking an appointment with a good naturopath and checking this possibility. Personnaly, when I was a child I had a skin condition and I had to visit 10 different dermatologists before my aunt's husband (who happened to be a naturopath) found the problem I had and solved it through a change in my diet and good nutritionnal supplements.
I wish you the best of luck, if you have questions, please do not hesitate to ask me, maybe I can help. It is not an easy situation and it is very hard on the whole family.
Isa

Jennifer - posted on 12/03/2009

5

7

0

My advise to you get a new doctor and have them do a full medical also you may want to go to an osteopath (sorry can't spell) and check everything is in line and not causing some underlying pain. I took my first son when he was a tiny baby because he couldn't sleep and he had tight neck muscles and a stomach muscles a few visits and I had a happy sleeping baby. I get restless leg syndrome and it effects my sleep terribly and its not really painfull just enought to keep me awake. Your poor wee girl and you I do feel for you and wish you all the luck.

Jenn - posted on 12/03/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Jennifer:

Wow we just went through this for the past 5 years as well with our son, i thought he might have adhd was talking to the doctor at his 5 year checkup and we was going through a checklist and out of the blue she said does he snore???? and my immediate response was yes... he was so hard to get to go to sleep and then he would toss turn and kick fidget never ever really sleeping up and down all night long even during naps during day.... she sent him to a ear nose throat specialist and two days later he had his tonsils removed... now needless he had never ever had an infections or sore throats etc all he had was a cough ever now and then and runny nose thought it was allergies. but since surgery wow big diffrence he sleeps about 12-14 hrs a night not waking up and not fidgeting snoring etc... a restful peaceful sleep....his tonsils were swelled so bad they couldnt even see them .. and now his behavior has changed extremely he is able to focus.. able to sit still and acting like a typical 5 year old and who would have gueesed it was his tonsils all along and not adhd??? i hope this helps


She does snore.. its kind of funny but sometimes she wakes herself up by the snoring. She coughs during sleep too. I was told it was allergies but she is fine during the day and even on allergy medicine she coughs. She stil takes the allergy meds beacsue she does have allergies but it has not helpd the coughing. She is prone to ear infections, gets double ear infections cupple times a year.

Jenn - posted on 12/03/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Nicole:

Hey there, sounds like you need a BED TIME ROUTINE!! My son was a shocking sleeper because I never could read the warning signs of over tiredness. (first time mum!). I have now been implementing a wind down routine since hes was 2 he is now 3 1/2.
6:00 - 6:30 pm - Dinner (and i make everyone sit at the table to eat dinner together.)
6:30 - 7:00 pm - Playtime (usually consists of a little tv or quiet playing0
7:00 - 7:15 pm - bathtime with lots of bubbles
7:15 - 7:30 pm - pyjamas on and brushing of teeth
7:30 - ?? pm - Roughly 15 to 20 mins of in bed reading or conversation about which toy gets the privilege of sleeping with him that night (lol)
7:45 pm - Night light goes on kisses and hugs then i put on some classical music (you can buy cds designed especially for putting children to sleep)
Then Shut the door and walk away!!!!!
If your child gets up and knocks on the door after you have left return to them and tell them it is sleep time and place back in their bed. Do this ONLY ONCE. Every time after the initially get up return them to bed without saying a word! nine out of ten times they do it only for your attention. If you do not give them your attention and place them into bed without out speaking they will soon learn that getting out of bed is not giving them the attention they want.
It took me about 5 nights to get my son to understand the routine and he got the wind down he needed b4 hoping into bed. I hope this helps if it doesn't then maybe your child has an underlying medical problem and needs to see not 1 but as many doctors as it takes for someone to actually hear you when you say your child has a sleeping problem.
Good luck!


Well like I said she has a night time routine... its been the same one since a baby (with minor adjustments as she got older) .. dinner... quiet time/movie...bath... teeth.. book...then bed. The whole lay down with her routine does not work on her... having someone in bed with her actually winds her up.... nither does the put her back in bed thing ither. I saw that on super nanny, tried it for a month an nothing. I use to put CD's on for her, but she kept getting up and messing withthe CD's and the player. I put it out of reach and she climbed her dresser to get to it. soo I had to take that out.

Debra - posted on 12/03/2009

1

29

0

Several of these posts probably apply. We have had the same problems with our oldest son. He would get to sleep but not sleep through the night (pretty much since birth). Our youngest slept fine and both boys stopped napping at 3. After talking with our pediatrician (Love him!!!), both boys saw the ENT doctor and had tonsils and adnoids removed. They were so large that neither boy could get the real rest they needed. Like Jennifer's quote, neither of our boys had ear infections, etc. I would definitely find a pediatrician you feel more comfortable with and will work with you. Remember, doctors are only human and they are here to partner up with us. Good luck.

Jennifer - posted on 12/03/2009

116

40

8

Wow we just went through this for the past 5 years as well with our son, i thought he might have adhd was talking to the doctor at his 5 year checkup and we was going through a checklist and out of the blue she said does he snore???? and my immediate response was yes... he was so hard to get to go to sleep and then he would toss turn and kick fidget never ever really sleeping up and down all night long even during naps during day.... she sent him to a ear nose throat specialist and two days later he had his tonsils removed... now needless he had never ever had an infections or sore throats etc all he had was a cough ever now and then and runny nose thought it was allergies. but since surgery wow big diffrence he sleeps about 12-14 hrs a night not waking up and not fidgeting snoring etc... a restful peaceful sleep....his tonsils were swelled so bad they couldnt even see them .. and now his behavior has changed extremely he is able to focus.. able to sit still and acting like a typical 5 year old and who would have gueesed it was his tonsils all along and not adhd??? i hope this helps

[deleted account]

Apparently, I acted similarly as a child & the pediatrician told my mom when I got tired, I would sleep. I am still a night owl (but I do love a nap if I can ever squeeze one in!), but have NO trouble falling asleep. As soon as my head hits the pillow, I'm out! I have no crazy disorders or anything like that either.....I'm actually usually far from hyper!
I agree with the mom who said something about being over-tired though too. My 2yo will literally bounce off the walls when she doesn't take a nap or didn't get enough sleep the night before (enough for her being about 8 hours). She is VERY active during the day normally, but it magnifies & gets super crazy when she's over-tired. She actually only recently (in the last 6 months) starting taking a day time nap, but I think she just moved her time around......she used to sleep longer at night.
If you can't get her to lay down to fall asleep at night, you could try laying with her & hold or lay her back down whenever she tries to get up. Eventually she will tire of you laying her back down & snuggle up with you & fall asleep (hopefully anyway!!).
Good luck!

Mindi - posted on 12/03/2009

152

1

37

Watching TV actually stimulates the brain and makes it harder to fall asleep. Make sure it's turned off at least 2 hours before you want her to be asleep. I agree with Nicole's post, but I would avoid the TV.

Jenn - posted on 12/03/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Renae:

Hi Jenn,

It is hard to comment without observing the behaviour for myself. In some ways her "hyper" behaviour sounds like a perfectly normal 3 year old. Running from one thing to the next with a very short attention span... that is perfectly normal.

But, it actually sounds to me like she is OVER-tired. When kids are tired, they go through a phase where they are most likely to fall asleep, this is when they are just starting to get tired but not exhausted. If they don't go to sleep at that time, they get a "second wind" and become over-hyper, easily excitable and run around like a mad person, literally. I think that when she acts like she got 13 hours sleep, she is actually very tired. When you say she can't switch her brain off, that also makes me think she is tired, kids have trouble shutting down when they are over-tired. And when she is finally in a deep sleep you can't wake her at all, again sounds like over-tiredness. The problem is though, if she is stuck in a cycle of tiredness, how do you get out of it.

Can you try to get her to have an afternoon nap? What time will depend when she gets up. If she gets up around 7am, she would normally need a nap around 1pm. You will have to decide when she gets to the point where she is actually tired, but not over-tired. Could you try putting her in bed and talking to her until she falls asleep? It will probably take an hour for her to go to sleep the first week but should improve after that. If you can get her to have a sleep in the afternoon, I think she will find it easier to go to bed at night.

It could still be ADHD, it is impossible to know without having her examined by a PSYCHOLOGIST NOT A GP OR PED! It's not sleep apnea, that is something very different.

I also dont think your doc is taking you seriously enough. Doc's like to ignore the comments of 1st time mums and assume that our problem is our expectations were wrong. They need to stop assuming all 1st time mums know nothing.

Try a psych and another doc.


She has taken naps she was an avid nap taker up till a few months ago, it also made it hard to sleep at night. Its different from day to day when she wakes up. There are days she isnt up till almost 11:30 no matter what I do to wake her. Then there are other days when she is up with the sun. I can't stay in the room with her when its time for bed I tried that too she wont sleep if anyone is within eye sight. She tries to get up, she talks nonstop, etc. I did this a cupple times and everytime I had to leave her awake in bed by the time 12-1am came around. She is going back to the doc's office soon and I will ask for referal. I am also thinking of changing her PED at this point he has not taken seriouly anything I have brought up to him since she was a baby with sever colic, were talking horrible made 3 grown women cry while baby sitting at the same time!! colic. I will try getting her to take naps again, if that doesnt help I dont knw what else to do

Jenn - posted on 12/03/2009

0

0

0

Quoting Renee:

Wow so she only gets a few hours sleep a night?! Does she take a nap at all? If not I think he should take you seriously. I have a friend who's child is very hyper and likes to stay up late but that is because the child was encouraged to stay up all through her infant years and toddler years and now she is 5 and still doing this but she does get 8 hours a night, she just sleeps late. Good luck - get a second opinion.


No she doesn't get a nap. If we are out of the house an driving somewhere she will out of nowhere just clunk out and sleep but its only for like 5 minutes, and that doesn't happen to often.

Renee - posted on 12/03/2009

621

28

139

Wow so she only gets a few hours sleep a night?! Does she take a nap at all? If not I think he should take you seriously. I have a friend who's child is very hyper and likes to stay up late but that is because the child was encouraged to stay up all through her infant years and toddler years and now she is 5 and still doing this but she does get 8 hours a night, she just sleeps late. Good luck - get a second opinion.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms