Q for pro circumcision moms

Merry - posted on 06/09/2011 ( 237 moms have responded )

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If circumcision was proven to be completely 100% medically unnecessary, no medical benefit at all, would you still circumcise?
If circumcision was proven to not improve your sons health one tiny bit, would you still do it?
Is your choice to circumcise based ONLY on making your son live a healthier life medically? Or is it cultural, just a personal preference, just a vanity thing, a 'fitting in' thing.

Do you choose to circumcise because you believe it is medically beneficial? Or do you do it because you *want to*?

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Krista - posted on 06/13/2011

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Yes i would still circumcise... i picture my baby as an old man in a nursing home and how hard it can be for him to clean himself therefore he has to have someone else clean him, and how uncomfortable he would feel..

If he's unable to clean his own uncircumcised penis, then he wouldn't be much better at cleaning a circumcised one, would he? Seriously, it's not that difficult -- you just draw back the foreskin and give it a wash. And if his faculties have degenerated to the point where he'd be unable to clean his own intact penis, then he'd also need help cleaning his other body parts, such as his testicles and anus. So I fail to see how your "dignity" argument holds much water.

Krista - posted on 06/14/2011

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Some people just don't try to understand culture and how it may impact a child's or a person's life.

I'm sorry. But I have absolutely no respect for any cultural or religious practice that involves taking a knife to the genitals of a helpless, trusting infant. I think it's warped that we excuse this abomination in the name of religion and culture.

Merry - posted on 06/10/2011

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Christy if your son was not circumcised he wouldn't be able to get poop in his penis because the foreskin remains attached to the head of the penis for 5-18 years! It slowly retracts over time, but rarely before 5. It's nature/gods way of protecting the penis.

Jodi - posted on 06/13/2011

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Roberta, it seems to me you are saying it wasn't terrifically traumatic for any of your boys who appear to have needed circumcision for medical reasons at an older age (I am just assuming here, given you have a number who also don't)?



IMO, this essentially renders the argument of having boys done routinely as infants because it is less traumatic for them invalid. Circumcising "just in case" they develop a medical problem will mean there are many babies circumcised for no reason at all. Why not just wait until that medical reason occurs (*if* indeed it ever does - only 10% will)?



Why is it treated differently to tonsils, adenoids, appendix? Should we not also just routinely remove the tonsils from a newborn baby, even though they are perfectly healthy? After all, tonsillectomies are the most common procedure performed on children. There is a pretty high chance that they are going to have a bout of tonsillitis at some stage in the future. Out of 4 of our children 2 of them have had severe enough infections to have to have them removed. Should we just have had them ripped out at birth on all 4 kids?



Edited to add: Sorry, just reread and realised it looks like I was directing my entire post at Roberta. I was only referencing her situation in the first paragraph. The rest of it was just general :D

Kate CP - posted on 06/13/2011

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It only takes a few ounces of blood loss for a newborn infant to bleed to death. Other common causes of death are staph and strep infections at the circumcision site; both of which are prevalent in hospitals across the globe. In rare cases a baby may go into shock and have a cardiac episode.

The most common problems arising from routine infant circumcision are nerve damage, too much tissue removed, too little tissue removed, secondary infection, severe penile injury, swelling, pain, and blood loss. It has also been linked to problems with breastfeeding.

Now, this is not to say that ALL boys who are circumcised will have ALL of these problems or even ONE of these problems. But the complications of routine infant circumcision are real. This study was done in 2007 and gives you an idea:

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/A_Trade...

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Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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I agree with u Sherri. I prefer circed and I don't care if my boy is with a girl who prefers it. If you can protect your child from being teased y not do it. I compare circumsizing to ear piercing. Neither r painful to the child and doesn't bother them. U do it so u don't have to when their older. The difference is tattooing can be looked at as trash but being circumcised isnt

[deleted account]

FGM - partial or total removal of the external female genitalia - is regarded by some cultures as OK - part of the culture - so we'd be OK with that then?

Katherine - posted on 06/15/2011

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Yes, I saw that post. I'm very familiar with FGM, but it just sounded like it wasn't the norm the way Donna put it.





Edit: I mean NOT cirq'ing

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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I responded that I had no boobs when I was a teen, so should my mother have organised a boob job for me so I wouldn't be teased about it? But the post disappeared.

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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Female genetal mutilation, Katherine. It still occurs in some cultures and countries..... :\ It is female circumcision.

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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Where did my response go? I swear posts are going missing all over the place at the moment :\

[deleted account]

Jodi, I'll answer your question. The reason why you cannot compare circumcision with a tonsillectomy is because one takes a local anesthetic and the other a general. Far more risks involved with a general.

I think a better comparison is FGM (which we know is no longer done, but it was until recently and still is practiced in some countries). Even piercing a baby girl's ears could be used as comparison, in terms of both being equal in taking away the rights of the child. No one's died of pierced ears though as far as I know. Which makes me wonder how many people realise that ears do not stop growing, so where you put the piercing as a baby may very well end up in the wrong place as an adult.

In our family (3 uncirc'd males, 1 uncirc'd female), it's only been the "clean" female who's suffered infections in the nether regions. I've had a UTI and a couple yeast infections just in the last 2 years, and I've always suffered yeast infections at various times in my life. Perhaps if my parents had circumcised me I wouldn't have this problem? Then why do all the uncut males in our household suffer NO infections? Mind you, we have taken proper care of baby foreskins (by not doing anything because urine comes out sterile and washes away anything that may be in an unrestricted foreskin).

Ugh, I agree that teenage girls are the WORST! I was teased for being a tomboy and more viciously teased for being overweight. Perhaps my parents should have got me lipo or lap band surgery? I wasn't grossly overweight, but I was definitely chubby (I hit 100 lbs at the end of 4th grade). Okay, I was fat. I was also teased for being smart! Called "brainiac" and "nerd" (thank you, "Revenge of the Nerds"!) and there was no way I could be one of the popular people because I was fat, bad at sport and smart. In our high school the jocks were the superstars. I was the kid they would come to in secret for help with schoolwork, but in school those same people would tease me. I was also teased for being non-white. Perhaps my parents should have bleached my skin? Well, my mother would have had to bleach hers out too... and improved her English. It was a small town of all white people. The mayor was in the KKK (at least that's what I'd heard). So being bi-racial wasn't a walk in the park. I got into a few fights in middle school defending myself and my mother's honour.

Kids can be cruel. Teenagers can be vicious. We can't protect our kids from being teased, because kids will find something to tease about if they are so inclined. What we need to teach our kids is confidence, self esteem and resilience. They need to have a survivor mentality so that the tough times roll off their backs a bit easier, not be wrapped in cotton wool or have body/mind modification to "fit in" because if someone who is perceived to be the "in" one decides your kid isn't "in" no amount of modification will change that.

Who said men were dirty? I didn't notice that comment. My 4 yr old is the exact opposite of dirty. He gets a bit of dirt on him and he's got to change all his clothes! He'll be helping dad do some yard work, but if he gets too dirty (read: any more than 10 grains of sand) he washes his hands. Once, they were moving our wood pile. Seth was washing his hands after moving every TWO pieces of wood! His favourite place to play is in the shower/bath/water of any description. Maybe he's gay?

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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So, ladies, you would be quite ok, then, with someone tattooing their baby? Why or why not?

Sherri - posted on 06/15/2011

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Lisa guess I am one of those shallow girls because if my husband had been intact I would NOT have been with him. So yes I am perfectly okay with my kids dating someone that only wants to be with a circumcised male. Especially since I feel intact isn't the norm but circumcision is.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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I agree that it's the parents choice. I chose to do it. I don't care what other mother s choose. I personally wanted my sons done.

Minnie - posted on 06/15/2011

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Oh, good grief. A penis is a penis. It's not like ANY are going to win a beauty pagent. Cut or intact, they're floppy and weird looking. Erect, they look pretty much the same.



It is completely unethical to strap a person down and cut off parts of his or her body because you don't like how it looks.



You remember girls in highschool...yeah...I honestly don't put much stake in the opinions of teenage girls. Would you want your son to be with someone that shallow?



My husband is circumcised. I love him more than anything. But I would be just fine if he was intact. In fact, I would prefer that he was. But it's not his fault that his mother decided to do what everyone else did and cut off part of his body and take his and MY choices away from us. I'M affected by what she did too.



At least my daughters won't grow up thinking it's ok to make fun of someone for how they look. And they'll also know that intact is NORMAL and that we don't cut off parts of unconsenting people's bodies. Circumcision WILL be archaic (globally, it is) some day in the US.

Amy Leeanne - posted on 06/15/2011

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I already see no valid medical reason, so we didn't do it. In my opinion it is just a personal choice, and our choice was not to have our son circd.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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Not around here. All of his cousins and all my friends kids are all circumcised. From what I learned it is about 50/50 now country wide.

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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Kirsten, I am not sure where you live, but IF you had done your research, there is a BIG possibility that your son will be amongst the minority, that more boys will be uncircumcised than circumcised. High school girls of the future will see uncircumcised penises as the norm.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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I remember in high school girls making so much fun of how ugly uncircumcised penises were. And how they would. Never be with someone with one. Personally I don't want this to be an issue for my son.

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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I truly have to ask who is going to be admiring this good looking penis anyway......future girlfriends? Do you realise that an erect UNcircumcised penis looks the same as an erect circumcised penis? So what is the problem again?

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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I did do it for looks but there is nothing wrong with that. I don't want him being made fun or or ever being self conscious. And I am very intelligent actually, in schooling for health care right now, it was an informed thought through decision.

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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I'm with you Krista. Using looks as an excuse is not even close to being any sort of intelligent reason. It is totally indicative of someone who never bothered to even research the issue. You can't even have an intelligent discussion with that logic.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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I will do it young so she wouldn't have to feel them and be old enough to mess with them and get them infected. Dr said babies don't have really feelIng in their ears till like 6 weeks

Krista - posted on 06/15/2011

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It is a silly argument to say it was for future infections but there is nothing wrong with doing it because it is custom.

Um yeah. There's all kinds of things wrong with doing it because it's custom.

I feel like I'm speaking an alien language here, because nobody seems to be grasping the fact that we are talking about taking a sharp blade to an infant's genitals, just because it's custom. What kind of fucked-up, cracked-out custom is this, and what the hell is wrong with society that we continue to parrot "It's custom! It's custom!" while ignoring the fact that we are taking KNIVES TO A BABY'S GENITALS?

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ on a hopped-up sidecar. I'm done. I can't even argue anymore with people whose mindset is such that they think that "custom" or "religion" are even remotely acceptable reasons to slice flesh off of a helpless infant.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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And you have every rite to your opinion. I had mine pierced at 3 weeks because I would be to you g to feel and mess with them and get it infected. Getting ur baby cut or not is your choice as a mom u shouldn't have to define your argument .

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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So you pierce your baby girl's ears so she won't be made fun of? Good God, what is WRONG with that picture?

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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I don't agree that is my choice either. My daughter will have that choice when she is old enough to make it.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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It didn't bother him one bit and it wasn't unthinking. I didn't wan him to be made fun or be embarrassed about it later in life. People do a lot of things to their body to fit in or be normal; such as like piercing a baby girls ears

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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I think that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, cutting of parts off your child's penis because of "looks". How very shallow. Is that what you teach your children? That looks are so important? Why can you not just accept your babies as they are?

[deleted account]

I disagree, Kirsten. Just chopping bits off your son's genitalia because "it is custom" suggests that it's done unthinkingly. That's one of the things that really irk me about this whole debate.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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Most people do it for looks not the risk of infection. That's y I did it. It is a silly argument to say it was for future infections but there is nothing wrong with doing it because it is custom.

Ez - posted on 06/15/2011

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You're right Jodi. I am yet to see anyone, in any circ thread, even attempt to answer that question.

Jodi - posted on 06/15/2011

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And yet STILL no-one can explain to me why we don't also just rip our kids' tonsils out at birth......:\

Minnie - posted on 06/15/2011

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Pre-emptive amputation of healthy organ to cure random rare future disease.

Logical, no doubt.

Ez - posted on 06/15/2011

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Phimosis can be fixed with steroid cream. Other infections can be fixed with antiobiotics. True complications from remaining intact (ie, not caused by forced retraction) are very rare, and can be treated conservatively (ie, no surgery) a lot of the time. I'm sorry, but it is a bogus argument.



Edited to clarify!

Minnie - posted on 06/15/2011

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if you actually did research I'm wondering why you don't know that there are a host of possible infections that can ensue in uncut males such as phimosis, paraphimosis and balanitis and cervical cancer in their female partners.



Those conditions are rare and easily fixed with either steroid creams, or like Laura mentioned, minor surgery, that preserves the foreskin and it's use.



The cervical cancer study is bunk. It was carried out on married Jewish couples. Monogamous people don't spread around HPV, a large cause of cervical cancer.



A child making the choice to have the procedure done is faaaar different than making the choice for him. If my girls want their ears pierced, I'll do it, provided they understand it- but I wouldn't ever consider making that choice for them before they could understand.

Merry - posted on 06/15/2011

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Besides most phimosis can be fixed with a simple slit cut into the foreskin, no need to remove the whole organ!

Krista - posted on 06/15/2011

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Karen, yes phimois CAN occur. But it is quite rare. And if it does occur, and circumcision is the only option that will successfully treat it, then neither I nor anybody else would have an issue with that. Because at that point, the circumcision is being used to treat an existing medical condition.

However, it does not make any sense to me to circumcise just in case my son MIGHT someday get an infection. The odds are actually higher that he will NOT get an infection. So why put him through that for the sake of something that is actually unlikely to happen?

And my earlier comment stands. I am all for respecting other cultural practices, but ONLY if they do not hurt the innocent. In your culture, if the boys are older, then at least they are involved in the decision. But with routine infant circumcisions, a cultural practice is being inflicted on a helpless infant, by way of a knife to his genitals. And I cannot and will not have any respect for that.

Karen - posted on 06/15/2011

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I'm sorry I don't consider "locker room BS" as something I shouldn't be worried about BS. You probably only understand your culture,not mine.

Plus, circumcision among babies isn't generally practiced here. Most boys get cut when they are 6 above. On my part, it wasn't something I forced on my son. He asked when he's going to be cut. It is a very common subject here among boys. It is as normal as watching cartoons on TV.

And you're saying educated decision, if you actually did research I'm wondering why you don't know that there are a host of possible infections that can ensue in uncut males such as phimosis, paraphimosis and balanitis and cervical cancer in their female partners.

For someone who comes from a different culture, your "sheep in a herd" comment is really offensive. Because having it done to my kid out of tradition/culture doesn't mean that it is not an uneducated decision.

Maybe you should try not to slam too much "research" on our faces, try educating yourself about other cultures before you make generalizations.

Kirsten - posted on 06/15/2011

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I had my son circumsized while still in the hospital. Insurance covered it. It was painless for him. They numbed it and he was just fine. I never even thought about not getting it done. My husband has his done. It just was the cultural thing to do. People do alot of things that are not nessecalily natural because it is custom. I remember in high school some girls didn't know what a uncircumcised penis looked like. They seen pics on the computer and were like omg thats so nasty. I would never have sex if the guys penis looked like that. There were boys in our class that werent and it was soo embarrassing for them. All the girls in class were agreeing how nasty they were. I wouldn't put my son in that position. He will appreciate it when he is older.

Toni - posted on 06/15/2011

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Men that are uncircumcised can get infections easier due to the foreskin holding bacteria. I do it for my boys to live healthier.

Sherri - posted on 06/15/2011

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Sarah I am with Candi it is done at the hospital at 24hrs old here and #2 the minority here is the uncircumcised male. There is still almost 80% of males circumcised here.

Candi - posted on 06/15/2011

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Sarah, you said Circ cannot be done at birth in any hospital? When would it be donr? My son's was done in the hospital at 1 day old. Of course that was over 12 years ago...

Minnie - posted on 06/15/2011

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Oh my god, my husband takes two showers a day and showers after he takes a crap. Dirty....lol. I am 100% sure he would have no problems in that department if he was intact. Unfortunately, he did not have a choice in keeping his whole body.



About making mothers feel like 'scum'....well, I have done things as a first-time mother, made BIG mistakes with my daughter, and I don't feel like scum. No one made me feel like scum when they pointed out the very serious ramifications of allowing a six month old to scream alone in the dark until she pukes [all in the name of independent sleep]. I very much regret that we did that to her. She did not deserve that.



But the thing is, I have learned that it is harmful and have chosen to not continue that practice. No one expected me to own up and say I was an evil, crappy mother, not at all. We made a big mistake with her. But we did not continue it with our second daughter.

Sarah - posted on 06/15/2011

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1. Boys are dirty are they? That's funny! Little boys and little girls all get dirty when they play, and yes we make them all have baths! As they grow up they ALL learn to wash themselves! That is SUCH a double standard to call males dirty! Which brings us back to the 'we cut our boys and not our girls' argument; when girls are farrr more likely to get an infection, whether they wash or not!

2. My antenatal classes did mention circ. They mentioned that they couldn't legally recommend it and it could not be done at birth as it is not allowed to be done in any hospital. They brushed over the procedure and how bad it is, morally, medically, all that. :)

3. I'm surprised people were so upset by my 'sheep in a herd' comment! I wasn't calling anyone in particular a sheep or trying to be nasty. My point was that the majority of women in this thread said they circ because it's 'cultural' or because they just know their boy will be bullied! That IS being a sheep and doing what everyone else does just 'coz!
I am against circumcision but i'm not against males who are circumcised (obviously) and i'm not against mums who circumcise if they do it for the right reasons!
I can totally understand parents circumcising their boys because after doing research they believed it is medically beneficial and the right thing to do.

I do indeed think it's wrong to cut off your child's body parts after doing no research and saying, my husband knows, he has a penis, orrrr the locker room bullshit, orrr intact penis' are gross! Those reasons are totally ridiculous lol! How could any parent put their newborn, helpless little baby under the knife because of a hypothetical situation they created in their head? The odds are that if anyone is bullied in a locker room it will be the child in the minority of boys; the circumcised one!

JUST DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and lots of it! Then i will be comfortable with the decision you made, because it was at least an educated decision! :)

Krista - posted on 06/15/2011

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I guess that's all that I really ask of parents. Do your homework. If you do your research and you feel that circumcision is the best decision for your family, then I will still vehemently disagree with you, but will at least applaud the fact that you have enough respect for your baby to not make this decision unthinkingly or for superficial reasons.

Krista - posted on 06/15/2011

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The medical field is as money driven as any other field and for the right amount ($$) they will say anything to help out politicians push an issue.

Uh-huh. And the money that these doctors are making for performing circumcisions isn't a factor at ALL...

And I agree with Kathy. For starters, it's insulting to assume that all men and boys are dirty. Secondly, if a man is filthy and doesn't bathe, he'll pass on infections to his partner whether he's circumcised or not. If all uncut penises were festering germ colonies, don't you think that there would have been major outbreaks of female infections in Asia, Europe and Australia by now?

The "uncut penises are dirty and infected" argument is hogwash. Global statistics just do NOT bear it out.

As well, the "Dad knows what's best in this field" argument is also hogwash. I have a heart. Does that mean that I am qualified to serve as my son's cardiologist? Unless Dad has done his research, the only thing he knows about is his OWN penis.

I think, more than anything else, it staggers me to see how few parents do their homework on this. You are talking about letting somebody take a knife to your baby's genitals. Wouldn't you THINK that you'd do a bit of research on this first to make sure it's the right decision for you? FFS, parents put more time and thought into selecting their kid's bedroom decor than they do into getting part of their kid's dick sliced off! It's obscene.

[deleted account]

"admit it ladies boys are dirty and without moms they wouldnt even shower"

Ashley, you are joking, aren't you? What an insulting idea, that men can't look after their own hygiene!

[deleted account]

Medicare in the US is like a health care card here. Given they don't have a public system, the only "public" medical care is welfare based.

Whereas Medicare in Australia is the name for our public (read: free) medical system. (for those who are getting confused)

Erin, that makes sense to me and it appears much of the medical community share your opinion. I've heard there are only TWO doctors in all of Brisbane who perform the procedure, which says quite a lot about the current level of acceptance for the procedure.

Now, having said that, I took Seth for his 4 yr old check up in Feb and we saw a new GP in the practice where our regular GP works. This new doc did his thing and was very good. Then I mentioned how we're keeping an eye on a partially descended testicle. He has a look and is happy with it, but just offhandedly starts talking about how Seth's foreskin might be too tight when he gets older and has erections, blah blah blah. I said "you mean phismosis?" and he was shocked I knew the term and said yes, before he could even suggest circumcision I shut it down by mentioning that my husband isn't circ'd and if he has problems with his willy when he's older he can take care of it however he wants. So it would seem there are occasionally GPs (who bulk bill!) talking about the procedure. How he would sell the expense to a bulk bill patient is beyond me though. It surprised me though, especially because he's also Chinese/Australian.

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