Vaccinations

Joy - posted on 02/20/2012 ( 37 moms have responded )

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When vaccinated children and non-vaccinated children mix is there a chance that the diseases the vaccinated children got the vaccines for can 'jump' to the non-vaccinated children? If so, how long should the vaccinated children stay away from the non-vaccinated ones after they've had the shots?



I'm not trying to start the debate of whether to vaccinate or not. I've read both sides.



I vaccinate, but I have friends who don't vaccinate their children. So I'm worried that my daughter can spread the diseases to them that she's been vaccinated against.

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Mother - posted on 02/26/2012

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Actually that's not true. Recently vaccinated children can SHED from one day to weeks after being vaccinated. That's why they aren't allowed in auto-immune suppressed floors in hospitals.

Sarah - posted on 02/20/2012

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Oh, and if non-vaccinated children get sick, it's because they were exposed to an active form of the virus by someone else who hasn't been vaccinated not from those that have.

Jessica - posted on 01/31/2016

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Hello all. My mom recently had chemo treatments at John Hopkins and in her Huge book on how to take care of her self there a was a section on immuncompromised the question was "can I have visitors?" The answer was "tell friends and family who are sick or have recently had a live vaccine (chicken pox,measles, rubella,intronasal influenza,polo or small pox not to visit)

So maybe it is a good thing to schedule vaccine in a Friday giving the child a three day time frame. Or ask you petatrician. I hope this helped a little. Although it is for the immune compromised I don't know for a healthy person.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Jodi, that is NOT an anti-vaxer stance...that is fact. anything that is a 'live' vaccine has the potential to carry on. I believe I did post that even tho there are no 'documented' cases, the virus has been detected in saliva and stools.



Just because something hasn't been documented does mean it doesn't happen. The potential is there. On a side note....a lot of parents don't even know what shedding is or that it exists....so if their child did in fact contract the illness they would not suspect a vaccinated child. Especially one so recently "immune".

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Joy - posted on 02/27/2012

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What I'll do is talk to my pediatrician and my friends who do not vax to see if they want my daughter quarantined for any length of time after her vaccinations in the summer. If she needs to be quarantined, I'll need to take off work (or my husband does.)



I'm not trying to debate a pro- or con- stance regarding immunizations. I want my daughter safe and I want my friends' children (found out there's another one that doesn't vax recently) safe -or at least not catching the diseases from my daughter and I want to take reasonable precaution to keep them safe.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Taken right from your own literature...



"are recommended for immunocompetent household contacts because transmission of the virus is rare." -- I would also like to point out that "rare" does not mean "never" or "impossible.

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2012

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To be honest, Kelly, that is an anti-vax stance. I have just as many sources to say that the MMR vaccine doesn't shed at all.



Just an example:



"MMR, varicella, and rotavirus vaccines, although live viral vaccines, are recommended for immunocompetent household contacts because transmission of the virus is rare. The lack of viral shedding with MMR eliminates concern regarding transmission."

http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/...

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2012

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Kelly, Not according to information provided by the CDC:

"Transmissibility of MMR vaccine viruses

Measles, mumps and rubella vaccine viruses are not transmissible to contacts.23 It is, therefore, safe to vaccinate the healthy siblings of children with impaired immunity and safe for children with impaired immunity to go to school with children recently vaccinated with the MMR vaccine. If using MMRV, see Chapter 3.24, Varicella for information about varicella vaccine virus transmission."



http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immuni...



Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Measles, mumps, and rubella - vaccine use and strategies for elimination of measles, rubella, and congenital rubella syndrome and control of mumps: recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). MMWR - Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report 1998;47(RR-8):1-57.

Mother - posted on 02/26/2012

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Sorry, I meant to post this the minute I found it but got caught up in a book. Here's a list of the vaccines that shed..



Shedding is when the live virus that is injected via vaccine, moves through the human body and comes back out in the feces, droplets from the nose, or saliva from the mouth. Anyone who takes care of the child could potentially contract the disease for some time after that child has received certain live vaccines. This was a huge problem with the oral polio vaccine, and was one of the reasons why it was taken off the market in the US.

The OPV is still used in developing counties.

Secondary transmission happens fairly often with some of the live virus vaccines. Influenza, varicella, and Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) are the most common. On the other hand it may happen very seldom or not ever with the measles and mumps vaccine viruses.

Here are the vaccines that shed or have been known to result in secondary transmission:



Measles Vaccine - Although secondary transmission of the vaccine virus has never been documented, measles virus RNA has been detected in the urine of the vaccinees as early as 1 day or as late as 14 days after vaccination. (1)

In France, measles virus was isolated in a throat swab of a recently vaccinated child 4 days after fever onset. The virus was then further genetically characterised as a vaccine-type virus. (2)



Rubella Vaccine - Excretion of small amounts of live attenuated rubella virus from the nose and throat has occurred in the majority of susceptible individuals 7-28 days after vaccination. Transmission of the vaccine virus via breast milk has been documented. (3)



Chicken Pox Vaccine - Vaccine-strain chickenpox has been found replicating in the lung (4) and documented as transmtting via zoster (shingles sores) (5) as well as “classic” chickenpox (6) rash post-vaccination.



Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) - In areas of the world where OPV is still used, children who have been vaccinated with it pass the virus into the water supply through the oral/feces route. Other children who then play in or drink that water pick up the vaccine viruses, which can pass from person to person and spark new outbreaks of polio. (7)



FluMist Vaccine - The mist contains live attenuated influenza viruses that must infect and replicate in cells lining the nasopharynx of the recipient to induce immunity. Vaccine viruses capable of infection and replication can be cultured from nasal secretions obtained from vaccine recipients.

Transmission of a vaccine virus from a FluMist recipient to a contact was documented in a pre-licensing trial. The contact had a mild symptomatic Type B virus infection confirmed as a FluMist vaccine virus. (8)



Rotavirus Vaccine (RotaTeq) - There is a possibility that one strain of rotavirus which is presently circulating may be an “escaped” vaccine strain, from an old Finnish rotavirus vaccine. (9)

Kate CP - posted on 02/26/2012

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And a person will only shed a virus that is active in their system. Therefor, if they receive a killed virus vaccine they won't shed it.

HANNAH - posted on 02/26/2012

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IDK i never had shots in my whole life and my son just gots his a little over a week ago im not sick at all .

Jodi - posted on 02/21/2012

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Joy, the virus in the vaccine can't be transmitted, so your kids won't be passing it on to anyone :)

Jodi - posted on 02/21/2012

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"My doctor told me it was because I didn't receive boosters to the rubella vaccine,"



Brittney, a booster IS a revaccination because it wears off over time. If you had the vaccination when you were a child, you would need boosters over time, including as an adult. Pretty much everyone does.



And with the chicken pox vaccine, actually, one dose is all you get - they issue is as an infant, then again when you are about 13, then you should have another booster as an adult. I've never heard of it being issued as 3 shots.

Joy - posted on 02/21/2012

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Whether its true that children who have been vaccinated are now carriers of the disease or not in the long term, doesn't make much of a difference in this case. My friend is fine with me bringing my daughter around her children generally and knows I vaccinate. I'm just wondering if I should quarantine after the next round or not and if so, for how long. Its not my intention to get her kids sick.

Brittney - posted on 02/21/2012

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My doctor told me it was because I didn't receive boosters to the rubella vaccine, I can still get chicken pox because I've never had it and I've only received one dose(now 3 are required)

Kate CP - posted on 02/21/2012

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Brittney, that is NOT true. You had to get revaccinated because it wears off after time.

Brittney - posted on 02/21/2012

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Children who have been not been vaccinated are always at risk from kids who have been vaccinated, the reason being, they are now considered carriers of the disease. I was immunized as a child for rubella and had to receive another because I was not immune to it. Vaccines do not guarantee children wont get sick from it, it just builds up a resistance to that strain.

Joy - posted on 02/21/2012

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As I said, I'm not trying to start the debate of whether its safer or not to vaccinate here. My friend has legitimate reasons not to vaccinate with the allergies (and even if she didn't, I don't feel its my right to judge. She's my friend.) Eggs are also on that list of allergies her children have.



My choice has been to vaccinate my child. As her friend (and as someone who doesn't want harm to come to any children whether parents are my friends or not) I asked to try to make sure my child won't be a health hazard to her family. I'll check with the doctor as someone recommended and also let her know next time we get shots. Thank you!

Jenni - posted on 02/21/2012

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I think Jen said that before the OP said it was because of allergies. As much as I think people should vaccinate. Some people can't or shouldn't if there are certain medical conditions to consider. Like allergies.

[deleted account]

I didnt see that there.

Vaccinating is not always whats best. I am potentially saving my kids lives because the reaction we take to vaccines. Sounds like she is too. Not all non vaccinating parents choose to because of internet propaganda.

Jenni - posted on 02/21/2012

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She did Julianne, and the family doesn't vaccinate because of allergies.



"Her children are allergic to everything: milk, soy, wheat, red food coloring, gluten, peanuts... I don't know what all else."



So it definitely sounds like a legitimate medical reason not to vaccinate. I still wouldn't want to punish a parent who is against vaccinations by putting her children at risk for very serious diseases (if that were the case). It's not the children's choice to not be vaccinated. Why would you make an innocent child suffer to teach the parent a lesson? As much as this is a passionate topic for me.

[deleted account]

Not all non vaxers need to "wake up" and learn how to vaccinate. I'm not vaccinated, my 6 biological siblings are not, my daughter only got one shot, and my unborn child will not be vaccinated. My family takes sever reactions to the vaccines, I chanced it with my daughter and she was severely ill for over a month, I'm lucky shes not dead. She didn't mention WHY her friend doesn't vaccinate, so lets not assume....

Jenni - posted on 02/21/2012

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And yes, it is possible to have an allergic reaction to the ingredients in vaccines as well as many other medications. Many vaccines contain egg and yeast proteins that can cause allergic reactions. Those with potential for severe allergic reactions or a family history of severe allergic reactions are often not vaccinated.

Jenni - posted on 02/21/2012

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Joy, there is only a very slim chance that an unvaccinated person can catch the disease IF it is a live vaccine (which very few are). Even still, it's rare but it can happen. It isn't even close to as contagious as the natural disease would be. So highly unlikely but not 100%.



I believe with RCV the only live vaccines are the MMR/MMRV and some polio vaccines. I also believe there are alternatives that use the dead virus for polio. Some flu vaccines (optional) do contain the live virus. So when you do take your child to be vaccinated, just ask your doctor if it contains a live vaccine. Let him know your children come in contact with unvaccinated people/children and how long you should quarantine them if it is a live virus. Just to be on the safe side.

Joy - posted on 02/20/2012

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Yes and no. Her children are allergic to everything: milk, soy, wheat, red food coloring, gluten, peanuts... I don't know what all else. So not vaccinating could potentially save their lives if they had an allergic reaction to it. I don't know if its possible to have an allergic reaction to a vaccine, but I'm leaving their decision not to vaccinate alone and thankful my daughter's only allergic to peanuts.

[deleted account]

I so hate to sound cruel but maybe a bout with a major illness that would have bee prevented with a quick shot may be what she needs to wake up.

[deleted account]

The chances of a non-vaccinated child catching the disease from a vaccinated child is so incredibly slim as to be negligible, especially now that most vaccines are not live vaccines. Your friends children are far more at risk in the general public than anything your child could possibly do.

Sarah - posted on 02/20/2012

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As I said, vaccinating your child doesn't make them contagious to other kids AT ALL. IF they get it, it's because they aren't immunized and were exposed somewhere else, not from your immunized child.

Joy - posted on 02/20/2012

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I'm more interested about the measles, mumps, rubella, etc. immunizations. My friend that doesn't vaccinate runs my daughter's daycare. My friend has 2 boys and is expecting another child soon. While her two older boys would probably be alright around my daughter after the next round of shots (which isn't until at least 6 months from now,) I am a bit more concerned about the expectant one.

HANNAH - posted on 02/20/2012

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I AM NOT POSITIVE ABOUT THAT ONE. IM SURE IT WAS JUST A FREAK THING THAT ALL YOUR DAUGHTERS FRIENDS GOT THE FLU PROBABLY JUST THE SEASON I WOULDNT WORRY TO MUCH

Sarah - posted on 02/20/2012

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2-3 weeks for immunity. The flu shot is different than regular immunizations because there are hundreds of different types of the flu. The shot that is given is actually an educated guess on what strains might go around that year. Most illnesses have an incubation period of 7-14 days (some a a little longer). Chances are she was exposed to the flu prior and it was just bad timing. Also just because you get the flu shot doesn't mean that you are 100% protected because, like I said there are many different strains out there. The other immunizations are a bit different. They can't pass on measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, tetanus, etc.

Joy - posted on 02/20/2012

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A vaccination gives a bit of the disease so that the body can build antibodies to it. It does not make a person immune to the disease, but resistant. It also does not guarantee you never get it.



ie. last year I gave my daughter a flu shot (I also had one.) The day after her shot she got the flu and spread it to every one of her friends.



With this knowledge I am basing my question. I know that after the vaccinated person becomes resistant to the disease they do not pass it to other people. I am wondering if there is a day or two before they build the anti-bodies needed.

Sarah - posted on 02/20/2012

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Vaccinations don't give the child the disease. They create antibodies in your child so that if they are exposed to the illness they won't get sick. Vaccinations do not make your child contagious. If your child is exposed to an illness they have been vaccinated against within 2-3 weeks of their vaccination they can still get sick because it usually takes a few weeks for the antibodies to build up enough to offer protection.

HANNAH - posted on 02/20/2012

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ABSOLUTLEY NOT I WAS NEVER VACCINATED AND I WENT TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND EVERYTHING IVE NEVER EVEN BEEN IN THE HOSPITAL FOR THE FLU .

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