What's really in it for women?

Neo - posted on 09/30/2014 ( 34 moms have responded )

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What really is there in it for women in relationships and marriage? Nothing. They "get to" be the mans slave? ...that seems about it! What does the man really do for the woman that she doesn't do for him? Or that comes close to matching all the more she does for him? Laundry, cooking, cleaning, shopping, child bearing, nursing, child care, etc, etc...
Sorry but after being the model girlfriend and wife I really wish it wasn't that my experience is that men are users, lazy, freeloaders, abusive. I hope I get some better experience soon so I can stop talking like this.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Gena - posted on 10/04/2014

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Hey Shawnn,Hey Dove..i am back :)...and going to shut this thread!
Gena W

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/03/2014

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Oh, you're just friggin hilarious, Neo. Good lord.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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I'll quote you IN YOUR OTHER POST THEN, NEO

Since you seem to want to keep those blinders on...

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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Neo... I'm basing my opinion on your own words... and the fact that you posted things like THIS... in several places:

Sorry but after being the model girlfriend and wife I really wish it wasn't that my experience is that men are users, lazy, freeloaders, abusive. I hope I get some better experience soon so I can stop talking like this.

That's from your OP right on this post... and leads me to believe that no, you are not anywhere near as stable as you think you are....

I used to rant about my experiences w/ my abusive, jerk of an ex... 6 years ago. Given time and therapy... no more rants. Granted, I may answer a post and mention something about it... but I'm not seeking out to gripe about it like you have here.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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But, Neo, you did not present either of your posts as 'something to ponder'

You (at least in your posts) have clearly let that bitterness take over, and NOT kept it in 'one little pocket'. Have you actually READ either of your posts?

http://www.circleofmoms.com/welcome-to-c...

http://www.circleofmoms.com/young-moms-a...

These aren't 'ponts to ponder'. They are out and out rants.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

34 Comments

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Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Shawn lively, this was great:

"..... women all over the world in successful marriages and relationships, who took the time BEFORE we slept with someone to get to REALLY know them, their past, and their history. FYI, I'm VERY familiar with abusive relationships, having been IN ONE MYSELF, and getting myself out BEFORE I MADE THE MISTAKE OF MARRYING THE BASTARD.

If I can do it, ANYONE can do it."

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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When the same poster makes two similar posts about the same 'types' of topics w/in the same general time frame... it's OK to combine them. I don't have the patience for that crap like Shawnn does though.

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Maybe you mis-read my other, separate from this original-posting, posting, which was a different original posting subject from this original posting subject, which you and your friend have now combined with and dragged into this original separate subject posting which was supposed to be a separate topic from the other posting topic.

Anyway in the other post

I said my ex had my kids kidnapped from me

Not the other way around.

He's the one did illegal.

I would never advocate for anything illegal.

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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Oh... and the 'funny' thing about me? Even WITH my experiences I'm still generally in favor of parents having 50/50 custody of their children (w/ a few exceptions)... because I recognize and acknowledge that MY experience is not the norm and good men (and women) and their children should not have to suffer where there simply is no need for it.

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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This happened a long time ago. We did get help. And are. Everything is nice now, thank you. I am probably still quite bitter about one thing only in my life what my ex did to my children and I, and probably always will be, but that's where that stays, in that one little pocket. That one area of reasonably intense bitterness does not permeate all the other areas of my life. It is unreasonable to assume that just because I thought I would try-out touching on a couple of subjects for consideration to ponder, and try to get the input of some women on this site (for various purposes), that I am thinking about this all the time, no I am not like that kind of woman at all. I do not have any bitterness anger or hatred in my regular everyday life as some ppl are rolling with here.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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Oh, and Neo...my life, my marriage, my kids...ALL SUCCESSFUL. Mainly, because I always accept PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for what I do, the decisions I make (both bad AND good), and the actions I take.

25 years in my marriage. My kids are successfully grown, excellent citizens, and contributors to society in a positive way. My life couldn't BE better, actually! Well...It could, I guess, I could win powerball or something and never have to work again...but in reality, a person's situation is all what they make it.

I, personally, made mine successful.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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You are now pushing your impressions of 'men' onto everyone else. You are accusing ME of being a bully, simply because I disagree with your rant. That is not a problem with me, my dear, it is a problem that you percieve in your world.

"we" is the group of women all over the world in successful marriages and relationships, who took the time BEFORE we slept with someone to get to REALLY know them, their past, and their history. FYI, I'm VERY familiar with abusive relationships, having been IN ONE MYSELF, and getting myself out BEFORE I MADE THE MISTAKE OF MARRYING THE BASTARD.

If I can do it, ANYONE can do it.

and, no, you weren't talking about 'specific' men, you lumped ALL MEN into the same mold. You won't own your other post, so you won't recognize that.

Again, counseling. You will benefit.

Dove - posted on 10/02/2014

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I've known Shawnn for a long time and she is awesome.

Just because you edit and delete your responses to project what you want at the moment, Neo, doesn't mean other people didn't read it.

I am sorry for what you have gone through... but the things you have posted (in several posts) are not the words of a mentally or emotionally stable human being

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Shawn Lively wrote:

"....You need to understand that your alleged experience is NOT the norm, and the majority of us have excellent relationships. We do not appreciate you lumping ALL men and relationships into your umbrella idea."

Neo:
I do know that this one experience of mine is not the norm. I have had and do have excellent relationships in my life as well.
But what you are talking about is marriages, that was the subject, yes.

And No the majority of people (who you call "us") do not have excellent marriage relationships... look at divorce rates.

So when you say, "us", are you talking about you and your friends in this community on this website? ...or "us" as in the women you know, your clique group of women friends? ...or "us" as in all women?

Also who is "We" ? When you say we do not appreciate? Who are you speaking for?

You sound like an abusive person. Those are tactics that abusive people use, and I did learn that from my counsellor. Oh yeah, someone like you definitely also knows how to use the word "alleged". ;)

there is something seriously wrong with you, i don't know how can you go on accusing me of lumping all men after I was pretty clear which men I am talking about.

What a waste of my time. I always end up trying to help people who need it most even when they don't deserve, and even with everything I've been through. Problem is I already know your type you won't even understand I've tried to reveal to you some serious traits of yours that you really would want to change if you knew better. Just to start and in language you can likely understand, it's like you are very insecure and a bully. I'm not trying to be mean, i hope you go to a counsellor and get help too... but I know your type never do because what you do works so well for you. Look at how your stupid lying posts are influencing everyone who posts. People like you love when you see that power too. Ewww.

(And now I see, you do use abusive "gang-up" tactics and you do have your girlfriend posting with you on this site, because I was right someone as insecure as you could not be on here without her)

Wow thanks for providing this opportunity for me to practice standing up for myself for the next time I meet an abusive guy and have to run in the opposite direction. :)

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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Wow, now you're blaming him and the baby for YOU not taking the responsibility for getting back into shape after baby? FYI, I've had mine, they're grown, and after BOTH, I was into 'pre-baby' condition within 6-8 weeks, simply with a few exercises a day.

You won't own up to your other post advocating illegal actions, either...That's ok, it's your story, you stick to it.

You accuse me of refusing to see 'your' side...I SEE YOUR SIDE. Its the same side that my husband's psycho ex took. That's why I refuse to validate it.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/02/2014

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So, you're not going to own up to your other post?

Neo - posted on 10/02/2014

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Shawn lively
Lol
Good luck to you in your life. You are going to need it.
Do you always take people's words and twist them into completely inaccurate descriptions of what they said and then also make written statements of this that are complete lies?
Do you always go around accusing people of doing things that they did not do?
And then when they confront you about it do you always just do it even more?
You are one who needs "help" in a completely different way than me, but probably just as much.
I feel sorry for myself having to read your posts and i feel sorry for the people close to you in your life if this is how you treat people.

Jodi - posted on 10/01/2014

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Neo, I think you need help for your bitterness and anger. That is no way to live.

Believe me, the bond between parent and child is NOT severed forever when that child spends time with their other parent. In fact, they end up with very balanced relationships with both parents. It comes down to how you manage the situation. Clearly you are not managing yours well.

The fact is, a father has a right to a relationship with their child, just as much as a mother. AND THE CHILD HAS A RIGHT TO A RELATIONSHIP WITH BOTH PARENTS. It doesn't matter how often or how many different ways you put it, you don't have 100% right to your kids. You don't have the right to deny a father access. A father is NOT just a sperm donor, he is a father, he is a biological part of the puzzle. Just because he doesn't want you any more doesn't change that.

I'm sorry you had a man who treated you like a slave and abused you. I hope you are getting help for your situation.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 10/01/2014

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Neo, you specifically said that it would be better to keep the children from seeing their biological parent if it was in 'their best interest'. Since you also, in the same post, bashed the court system, and accused all judges of being involved in the child sex trade, you can't tell me that you were advocating petitioning the courts for supervision of the non custodial parent.

You seem to have A LOT of bitterness and hatred inside of you. You need to understand that your alleged experience is NOT the norm, and the majority of us have excellent relationships. We do not appreciate you lumping ALL men and relationships into your umbrella idea.

You need counseling. You need more help than you can receive on an internet forum. Your hatred will ruin you. Your rants aren't accomplishing anything here, really, except to have a bunch of women tell you to get help and counseling. Please do that.

Again, YOU CANNOT determine whether or not a biological parent does or does not 'deserve' access to their child! EVERY biological parent has a RIGHT TO BE A PARENT. You cannot legally take that away. I'm sorry that your situation didn't work to what you perceive to be your advantage, but you have to understand: YOU MADE A CHOICE to sleep with that person. YOU made the choice to marry, YOU made the choice to carry pregnancies to term...Are you trying to say that he beat you over the head, dragged you to his cave, kept you imprisoned and pregnant, and did not give you any choice in the matter? Sorry, but I cannot buy that story.

YOU MAY HAVE HAD a traumatic marriage, I get that. It still doesn't give you the right to dictate custody, nor does it give you the right to deny access to the kids because YOU feel it is in their best interest. Most bitter ex wives assume that the children are possessions and property, but THEY ARE NOT.

You are making very inaccurate accusations: "men and courts know that women don't have money to stand up for their rights in court" Where in the hell does that assumption come from? If YOU did not have the financial means for a court battle, it was up to YOU to find an attorney that would work on a sliding scale, or pro bono. If YOU did not do that, you cannot blame 'men and courts'. If YOU settled for an out of court 'agreement' that is not legally binding, that is no one's problem or fault but your own.

"While she was pregnant, couldn't work at her optimum, he could, so unless he is lazy, often likely for these types, he is likely to have more money ready for court than her" Sorry, lady, but quit assuming that we're all wilting flowers that went on bedrest the minute we conceived. I, for one, and MANY, MANY other women I know worked until the baby was born. And I could, if you'd like, now cite an instance where baby momma is from a very wealthy, well off family, who trapped into marriage a young naive man who only wanted to have a family, only to abuse him mentally and physically, cheat on him, and keep him from knowing his BIOLOGICAL DAUGHTER because she was a rotten, no account rich bitch that knew she could get away with it. Your alleged situation GOES BOTH WAYS and you need to see that. It's all about PERSONAL CHOICES MADE and the ability to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN CHOICES.

"{Only if the man doesn't have any money either, does she have a chance, but the disruption in her life is very costly, and right at a time when she is biological constitutionally weak from having been nurturing a fetus and a newborn. It is ruthless what some men are putting some mothers of infants and young children through. " And it is equally ruthless what some greedy baby-mommas are putting the fathers of infants and young children through. AGAIN, recognize both sides. Oh, and again, may I add that YOU CHOSE to be in that situation with that man, you chose to sleep with him, to keep the child...

"So also I am not a male basher. I love men. I have high respect for many men. I am talking about men who try to force to get the kids from the mother, when she is not comfortable, and it's not fair.' Maybe not 'male basher'...but definitely 'baby momma'

Counseling. It helps

Dove - posted on 10/01/2014

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You and your children need intensive therapy and I sincerely hope you get it for all of you asap.

Dove - posted on 10/01/2014

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I am a single mother... and I don't agree with you. In my situation the father isn't involved... and I WISH he was... even though I can't stand him. Kids deserve a relationship with both parents (except in rare circumstances of abuse and neglect... of which your situation does fall under) whether you (I) may like it or not. It's the kids that will suffer by what you are advocating... just like your kids have suffered only in a different way.

Neo - posted on 10/01/2014

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I don't think many women would be having any kids if they thought for a second at the time of deciding to become pregnant or to keep a pregnancy, that someday very soon they may break up and the man may be taking the baby/child from her, at the times that he chooses, not her, and raising the child a minimum of 50% of the time in any which way he pleases, and with whomever chooses, which all will be none of the birth mother's business. Nope.
I doubt she is prepared, that it is even a thought in her head that she could have to spend all her equity and borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal process just so she can get her child 50% of the time, and have any say at all at when that time will be. Nope. I don't think women would go through the pregnancy, etc., and all that men do not, if they knew that could and does happen and how often.
That's why I don't agree that it is 50/50 once the child comes out.
What about all the woman sacrificed that the man did not? Her body? Her health? Her biological constitution growing and nursing the baby? The whole pregnancy, the birth, the risking her life, Her time raising up the baby? Her loss of income? her loss of opportunity? Especially if he provided nothing for her during the pregnancy and nursing and infant stage raising? Seems odd to me that a man can come along and steal the baby/young child 50%. But it happens all the time to perfectly good mothers. It's horrifying to a mother who has bonded and dedicated herself to the young infant or young child's well being and development and regular schedule, often sacrificing her work opportunities to be s stay at home mom, or a large chunk of her income on childcare when she does work.
When the child is forcibly or coercively removed for any % of time, many of the bonds and connections that the mother had with her child are forever injured, some severed, and changed when this happens. The bonds and connections cannot be the same, those ones are gone, and only new ones that are not nearly the same replace them. It's not healthy for the child.
Women have the womb and the breasts for a reason.
There's an umbilical cord for a reason, and a scar where it was for a reason.
Women aren't just pods for men's use and abuse, to be discarded once they get what they want out of them.
It isn't just woman has baby and then free for all whatever man and court decide after woman has spent all her time and all this I have mentioned and more on the pregnancy, fetus, infant, and child.
Men and courts know women don't have money to stand up for their rights in court. outside of court, women end up settling for whatever the man will agree to of her argument and allow her if he is merciful at all, under threat of that he will just go to the court and take whatever he wants and more if she doesn't agree. Again costing her all her life's equity, money and opportunity and time just to hang on to a shred of the child she produced.
While she was pregnant, and couldn't work at her optimum, he could, so unless he is lazy, (often likely for these types,) he is likely to have more money ready for court than her.
Only if the man doesn't have any money either, does she have a chance, but the disruption in her life is very costly, and right at a time when she is biologically constitutionally weak from having been nurturing a fetus and a newborn, (the child is not grown solely from the food we eat, the woman's whole body is used to grow the baby and nurse the baby) It is ruthless what some men are putting some mothers of infants and young children through.
But obviously I should be posting in the single mothers section if I am looking for women to agree with me. Except I'm not looking for women to agree with me. I'm looking to help mother's and mother's to be with their perspectives and their rights BEFORE this happens to them. As it will happen to a certain percentage of all the women who read this.
And the ladies who are in the percentage of women who are not going to end up divorced while raising young children don't have to worry about these things ahead of time. Problem is you really never know what side of that percentage you are on, until it happens. I don't think many women plan on their marriage failing.
So also I am not a male basher. I love men. I have high respect for many men. I am talking about men who try to force to get the kids from a good mother, or who was also a good wife and good mother, when she is not comfortable, and it's not fair.
Of course every situation is different.

Neo - posted on 10/01/2014

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♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ Lively - posted 1 day ago"..............A woman, an intelligent woman, looks to someone of like minds to be with forever. If you don't just take the first man who wants to screw you...and actually LOOK at choices, that is...
I hope that you get into counseling so that you can figure out where things went wrong and hopefully realize that manbashing is getting you nowhere...especially since you're advocating illegal actions in your other posts."
NEO - posted 2 hours ago:
Pre-conceive agreements and or sperm donor agreements are not illegal. It is simply having some of the intention at the time of the agreement to have a child documented, similar to a pre-nuptual agreement where some of the intention at the time of the agreement to marry is documented. I have not advocated for anything illegal in any of my posts and I'm concerned about your incorrect description of what i have written in other posts. It's like you are bearing incorrect witness of me and what I am doing or have done, libel.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 09/30/2014

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What's 'in it'? For me, companionship, LOVE, appreciation, support, company, LOVE,...25 years of complete commitment to each other, our family, and our lives.

A woman, an intelligent woman, looks to someone of like minds to be with forever. If you don't just take the first man who wants to screw you...and actually LOOK at choices, that is...

I hope that you get into counseling so that you can figure out where things went wrong and hopefully realize that manbashing is getting you nowhere...especially since you're advocating illegal actions in your other posts.

Raye - posted on 09/30/2014

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So sorry to hear about your horrible experience. I agree with what others are saying... not all men are that way and you must have respect for yourself and your kids to stand up to any man that tries to put you in a demeaning situation. If you feel underappreciated, let your man know (un-accusingly) that you need his help and attention. If he's one of the good ones, he will want to work on a solution with you. If he has a problem with you being honest about your feelings and won't do anything to remedy the issue, then kick his ass to the curb.

My first marriage, I had severe doubts before I got married... and I should have ran the other way. It wasn't as bad as your situation, but it wasn't good or healthy, and I put up with it for 10 years before I asked for a divorce. Now, I have a wonderful man who is a very loving and attentive father. This relationship is a million times better than the last. And I got here by realizing my own worth and not letting anyone treat me with disrespect. Now, don't get me wrong. My husband is not perfect. But we work on things together and he wants to be a good man for me. It is a balancing act sometimes to make sure everyone's needs are met. But it can be done.

Now, my mom (after two failed marriages) gave up on finding a mate. She's 65 and was made a servant to my grandmother for years and (since my g-ma's passing) now somewhat a servant to my uncle. So, she's still letting people run her over, it's just not a boyfriend or husband doing the job. It's all about self respect and deciding to stand up for yourself. My mom hasn't learned how to do that yet.

If you want to be in a relationship, what should be in it for you is love and companionship. Sorrow shared is 1/2 the sorrow, while joy shared is 2x the joy. A relationship should be with someone who makes your lows not so low, your highs reach the stars, and makes all the other ordinary days a little less ordinary. I hope you find the right one for you.

Gena - posted on 09/30/2014

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Some relationships are horrible,but they are not ment to be. My hubby and i are a team,we help eatchother,we respect eatchother and share everything...from cleaning to sharing our feelings. For me the key is respect,if a man doesnt respect you he simply doesnt deserve you. Not all men are the same, there will be a man that respects you. I just wanted to let you know that there are very good men out there. I wish you good luck!

Jodi - posted on 09/30/2014

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It sounds like you were in an abusive relationship. This is NOT the norm. In my house, my husband and I are equal and we share responsibilities. We have been married nearly 11 years.

If you have not yet sought counselling for yourself, please do. It will help you to find a way to accept the past and move forward in the future.

Lori - posted on 09/30/2014

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marriage is a partnership - two people with the same lifetime goals and dreams. two people who compliment one another in what they bring to the relationship. (I have been married for over 20 years and have never once felt as above).
it's the individual person, not the institution of marriage

Michelle - posted on 09/30/2014

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I'm so sorry about all of that. Yes there are decent men around but maybe have some time to yourself. I found that when I finally gave up on finding a man and was concentrating on my children, that's when my husband came along. I even tried to scare him off but he wasn't going anywhere.
I think you all need to heal as family after what has happened.
I wish you all the best.

Michelle - posted on 09/30/2014

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Yes I did go out with quite a few frogs before I met my "prince". I know I am very lucky to have met him and I appreciate him every day.

Michelle - posted on 09/30/2014

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Wow, you really are bitter.
How long were you with the lazy man?
I don't "work" at keeping our house running the way it is, we both know what needs to be done and it gets done. We only have 1 day off together so when I'm working and he's home he does his and the kids laundry. I do my own because he doesn't want to ruin anything.
My ex husband was like yours, that's why he's the ex. I was never going to be treated like that from anyone ever again and my husband knows it.

Michelle - posted on 09/30/2014

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If you are doing everything for a man then you have allowed yourself to be treated like that.
Why do you think that the model girlfriend/wife is someone who does everything for a man anyway? My marriage is a partnership all round. We both work full time so share everything from doing school drop offs and pick ups to the laundry and cleaning. My husband also treats me like a princess and does things without me having to ask or nag.
He even takes the children's to birthday parties and play dates.
I find women who complain about their men not doing anything have started the relationship off that way and then expect things to change. If you don't want to be treated like a free slave then you set down the rules when you first start to live together.

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