Who does this????

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/08/2010 ( 66 moms have responded )

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So, I was talking with my mother last night, telling her about our upcoming flight. I have a 4 year old (who has flown roundtrip 7 times) and a first time flyer..my daughter who is 8 months old. We were just chatting about how we think my daughter will handle it...then she says "Oh my GOD!!! I can't believe I forgot to tell you this! When we were flying home from your house this summer, we saw a couple with a 6mos old on the plane. They were in the isle right next to us. Well, once we were up in the air, the mother gave the child a binky, laid the baby on the floor in front of her feet...and the husband and wife fell asleep for the WHOLE flight..WITH THE BABY ON THE FLOOR!" I of course GASPED! WTF? Who would do this? Have you ever seen anything like this before? My mom and her husband watched the baby the whole time of course to make sure he was ok..they didn't know what else to do! The flight attendants didn't seem to notice or care! I would have HAD to have said something...

I posted this on Debating Mums...want to see what you all think about this...how would you react if you saw this happen?

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Kandy - posted on 12/09/2010

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I am just amazed that the flight attendants did not say anything. When my son was a month and a half old he had his first plane ride from Michigan to Texas. We stopped once in Dallas/FT worth, while we were on each plane we were given specific instruction on what the airlines policy was. We were notified where the infant life vests were and also that he had to be lapped at ALL TIMES. They were watching us through the entire flight. When the seat belt light were on my husband and I were not even able to move him to one another. I am just in overall shock that nothing like this was mentioned.

[deleted account]

Marina, I'm not sure why you're being SO defensive? I have every right to question why your mom didn't say anything. It's called having an opinion. You asked, I answered.

I don't think your mom is AT FAULT, but (and only because you asked our opinions) I do wonder why she didn't say anything if she thought it was SOOO wrong?! The baby was fine, obviously and even though I wouldn't do that, I try not to judge. Do I think it's strange? Sure, absolutely but all we're doing is trying to make sense of a silly situation and you're getting your back up because you EXPECT everyone to agree with you and think it's absurd. It is absurd, in my opinion, to put a baby on the floor of a plane while going to sleep BUT, I also think it's strange that your mom did and said nothing if she was SO concerned.

Sherri - posted on 12/09/2010

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I guess my view of it is this if your mother saw a child in the middle of the street would she just watch and do nothing if that child was in true danger. If your mother had a huge problem with this then she should have done something if she didn't want a confrontation then let the stewardess know so they could have done something. Really you have no basis for your arguments since your parents just sat and watched and did nothing while a supposed helpless infant was in immediate danger.

Jaime - posted on 12/08/2010

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Marina, if your parents were so concerned and appalled by the actions of this couple, why didn't they speak up and bring it to the flight attendants' attention? It's not a matter of any of us thinking that their actions are acceptable...it's a matter of realizing that not everything you see is exactly as you see it. You can be horrified and appalled that not everyone is reacting about this the same way that you are, but the truth is you have no idea what actually transpired...just the word of your parents that chose not to speak up, despite their overwhelming concern for the child's safety. Just something to think about.

Jaime - posted on 12/08/2010

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Here's the thing...if the parents lay the baby on the ground and go to sleep, then perhaps they had a reason for doing so. If the baby was quiet and content for the entire flight, then why such an uproar about it? I'm inclined to think that IF the baby was in any danger or at risk, the flight attendants would definitely have said something. I very much doubt that they would not notice a baby on the floor...it's not like there is a secret compartment in the floor to hide the babies in. We can speculate all we want about the parents and how horrible they are for putting their baby on the floor and going to sleep...but not one of us knows the exact story. And people tend to exaggerate their reactions to atypical situations when it conflicts with what they feel is natural and appropriate.

66 Comments

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Merry - posted on 12/13/2010

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I guess that doesnt cross my mind, I flew once when I was 7, once at 11, then once at 18. Nothing more then across country so it was pretty quick, and I didn't go through any turbulence, sounds scary!
I think if my son was going to be on my lap I would have him in a sling or front carrier, I have one theat goes up to 35lbs, or if I could I'd buy him a seat and buckle his carseats in it.

Dana - posted on 12/13/2010

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The germs on the floor don't even concern me as much as the fact that during extreme turbulence, a grown adult can be thrown from the ceiling to the floor, let alone a baby that's on the floor under a seat!

Merry - posted on 12/13/2010

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Until Eric was crawling I didn't put him on the CARPET of the floor in my own HOUSE!
Now I see the baby was wrapped up, but when I put Eric on the carpet in our house I always made certain the same side of the blanket was down every time and washed it often.
He never laid on floors of otter peoples houses, and absolutely no public areas.
As I said all this changed when he learned to crawl, which incidentally, was the first time he fought a virus and had a runny nose!
So call my crazy but keeping his contact controlled with things like floors, and public p,laces did keep him healthy until he was crawling.

So my point is, yes I see moms put their babies on the floor, and I see those babies getting sick more then Eric did.
So while I wouldn't say it to them, I do judge moms who are passive about their young babies contact to germs.
And a plane floor is about as dirty as a gas station bathroom! I mean how much do you actually think it gets washed down there?
Honestly.
Most people don't speak up, I think they should, but they were taught to be kind, and quiet with strangers.
Now some are being raised to speak up and I tnk that's good.
Ever watched the show 'what would you do?'
Not many speak up, but you really should try to!
It's hard to say something, but sometimes it can be the absolutely best choice.
I think I would have said something in this situation, but I can't say for sure as I have had time to think it through before seeing it in person.

Steph - posted on 12/13/2010

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I think thats not right, but thats my Opinion. I would stay alert through out the whole flight if my child was on board, and i would def not put him or her on the floor. Its just like in a car pretty much, Would You Lay Your Child on the floor in a moving Vechicle? I would hope not. but im glad that the baby is alright.

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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Thanks for sharing your story Mandie. Sorry to hear that you lost so many friends in the line of duty.

[deleted account]

It can be a difficult job Jaime but it also had lovely rewards too, I was lucky to have been able to live that life. I left mainly because I felt the time was right to become a SAHM, but also because my husband is also a Police Officer and we have lost several friends on duty in recent years and our children are now old enough to have been affected by it, so we felt it was best that one of us decrease the risks by leaving the job.

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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I can only imagine how difficult your job was, Mandie. May I ask why you are no longer a police officer?

[deleted account]

I couldn't agree more Jaime, I cannot tell you the number of times, after a shift where I have had to deal with the death of a child, that I have cried myself hoarse with despair and frustration at the frailty of human nature.

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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Your insight is helpful for sure Mandie, and I suppose I never considered it that way. Either way, we have to start speaking up and speaking out against idiocy and abuse of any kind when kids are involved. And I mean that in general, not this specific situation.

[deleted account]

I just wanted to address the issue of why no one spoke up- I used to be a Police Officer and I can tell you I have seen the result of some DREADFUL situations where SOMEONE should have taken action of some kind and no one did and someone died. When interviewing these 'someones' after the fact everyone always says they knew something was wrong and they should have spoken up but didnt. I dont pretend to understand why, but I have come to the conclusion that for the vast majority of cases, this is human nature. From VERY rare time to time, some brave soul does speak up and lives are saved- again I dont pretend to understand why; these are just the observations of an old jaded cop.

I'm not passing any judgement on anyone, just stating what I have personally lerned from such a life experience.

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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Okay, let me try this again...

Marina, I understand your concern. I, too, would be very concerned if I had seen such a situation. But my only point was that if it was so appalling and shocking and dangerous....why didn't ANYONE speak up? I would never put my son on the floor of a plane. I have traveled by Greyhound many times with my son and he is always in his seat or on my lap, but NEVER on the floor. I get that there are dangers and I get that it is a concern, and yet no one said anything. THAT is what bothers me. It's also not for any of us to say what is right and what is wrong...people do stupid shit and sometimes we don't understand it...but that's where I feel we have an obligation to speak up. I get that your mom didn't think it was her place...but then who protects that baby the next time it happens? The parents should have made a better choice, I agree. But it's not worth us arguing and spewing sarcasm at one another because these two parents are douchebags.

I apologize for being snarky. It's been a long couple of days and it was not my intention to take it out on you. I have no issue with you and I'm moving on.

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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For the record, I wouldn't do it either...not sure why you're not getting that!

[deleted account]

I can't imagine it either. I'm sitting here laughing out loud because it is absurd and I'm not sure why we're arguing?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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Dana, I know you would never put your beautiful daughter in harms way...I think she would be to big for under the seat....but I am sure she would have leg room in the overhead compartments! ;) . It turned my stomach when my mother told me...that is why I brought it up. I couldn't imagine someone doing this!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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Jamie, I get it...back off. I get it. You are snarky. Get over it.

Dana - posted on 12/10/2010

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God, this whole thing makes me sick. They're lucky there was no turbulence. Disgusting behavior.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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Dana, I should have started another paragraph. That was directed a anyone that would think this was acceptable. It was not directed at you. It was a general "you".

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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I once drove three hours with my son strapped in his car seat on the roof. Don't worry, I had a rain cover over him to keep the wind out of his face. Oh, and don't worry, the other cars on the highway were fine with it too...they just waved excitedly because they must have wondered why they hadn't thought of doing that with their own kids!

GAH!

[deleted account]

Marina, when you say " If you feel it is fine to lay your baby with his head under the seat in front of you, then so be it. I hope there is no turbulance on the flight for your childs safety sake" are you speaking directly to me?

I'm pretty sure I've said several times that *I* personally would never do that and yes, I do think it's absurd. I honestly don't think anyone here thinks it's normal or even acceptable, but we're trying to be open minded because without being there and witnessing it first hand, NO ONE can say for sure. I will state again, I DO NOT fault your mother....I don't feel like anyone is attacking her. We just asked why she didn't say anything and you've answered. I still don't understand her logic but I don't think it's her fault and I certainly don't mean for you to feel like I'm attacking her.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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Dana, I have tried this entire post to continue to answer why my mother did not say something and it continues to get ignored. She is not the one making a big deal about it..I am. She was concerned yes of course..but once again she did not feel comfortable, or feel it was her place to say something. I have my panties in a bunch about her seeming to get attacked over it. Not all of us speak up when something is occuring and we often realize we should have said something in retrospect. If you feel it is fine to lay your baby with his head under the seat in front of you, then so be it. I hope there is no turbulance on the flight for your childs safety sake.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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I literally just hung up the phone with my mother just to make sure I had all the facts straight...the baby's head was under the seat in front of them...he was in a sling so he could not stick arms or legs out, and atleast did not have direct contact with the floor...but the baby was sliding around in the space he had when the plane had movement. The Airline attendant did definately see the baby, and did nothing, My mom did not feel it was her place. That is why she did not say anything...I have already answered that Jamie. If you are not interested in this topic, go ahead and move on. How would you like your head shoved under an airline seat? Once again, I am flying tomorrow and will definately ask about this circumstance to the flight attendance that are working.

Sherri - posted on 12/10/2010

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Okay Jamie don't fall over or anything but I actually agree 100% my point exactly.

Jaime - posted on 12/10/2010

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Ugh...really? You posted the question and we've answered. It can't be helped that there are some of us who wonder why your mom didn't speak up. The same way I wonder about those neighbours you hear about or see being interviewed when a small child is beat to death next door and they "knew something was off" but never spoke up. If the child was in true danger, I am betting someone would have spoken up. I know I would have. And that's the point. Clearly there are some people that will do this...put their child on the floor of the airplane. I don't know for sure how safe it is until I test it out myself, so I can only speculate that IF there was true danger, SOMEONE would have and should have spoken up. The baby survived the flight...hooray, now let's move on!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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Thank you Tracey, atleast someone sees what I am trying to say.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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My mom was just telling me the story, and we had a conversation about it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/10/2010

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Still not sure why my mom is being the "bad one". She did nothing wrong. She is NOT the one that put the baby on the floor. Once again, she was concerned and did not know what to do. For anyone that is going to continue to think my mom is at fault, please back off and bite your tongue. This was not about wether or not my MOM did the right thing, this was about who would do this, why and if you saw this would you think it was wrong?

[deleted account]

Your mom should have told the bloody flight attendant if she thought it was SO wrong. Have you asked her why she didn't say anything? Honestly, the story just doesn't make sense to me!

Sneaky - posted on 12/09/2010

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Hi Marina, I also think that this is a very interesting question for discussion. A hypothetical 'what would you do?' as opposed to a pointless discussion about what your mum did/did not do and/or should have done.

So what would I do? It really depends on the circumstances I guess, and by circumstances I mean the little details like: was the baby wrapped to prevent contact with the floor, was the baby moving around and/or in distress, was the mother 'supporting' it with her feet, was the stewardess a complete bitch that you couldn't talk to? Details like that would probably affect how I reacted. I suspect that like your mum, I would have been horrified and appalled, but I am also terrified of flying and would have been entertaining visions of mad turbulence and crashing airplanes so I hope I would have asked the stewardess if the baby was safe on the floor. It is, after all, the flight crew's job to keep the passengers safe, not mine.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/09/2010

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Actually Amy, if the dog fits in a small kennel, that is exactly where they go. They do not have to go into cargo if they fit. That is how I travelled with my Chihuahua.

Iridescent - posted on 12/09/2010

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Actually, dogs go in the cargo hold, in a kennel, so the baby was certainly not treated as such.

Sherri - posted on 12/09/2010

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Oh I had a 10mo old and walked up and down isles with him. Set him down and let him stand up with me holding his hand. The airline could have cared less.

Ashley - posted on 12/09/2010

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was the baby crying?? seemed stressed or uncomfortable??? if no then really it's not that big of a deal. Maybe it likes being on the floor...who knows. Maybe it doesnt like being in its parents arms for long periods of time. You dont know. My oldest son did not like being held and still doesnt. When he was sick with meningits half the time we had to stand around his crib at the hospital and look at him because he did not like being picked up. Maybe this baby is the same. There could be ANY reason for this. Oh and i like the fact how you had to put in that they were a young couple.....

Jaime - posted on 12/09/2010

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Marina, I think you're blowing this out of proportion. I realize you don't feel the same way, but it's hardly worth getting all up in arms about. You have no idea what the actual circumstances were. It's unorthodox to leave a child on the floor of the airplane, but I very much doubt that it was done with the complete lack of parental responsibility you are attributing it to. Perhaps your mother didn't fully understand the situation, but if she was shocked and appalled and truly concerned for the safety of the infant, I'm inclined to think she would have spoken up. According to you the baby sat on the floor for the entire flight...and you're saying that in that entire time, it never occurred to anyone to say anything. Perhaps there is a reason for that which brings me back to my original point that you have absolutely no idea what actually happened. So just drop it already.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/09/2010

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Sherri...I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH IT. That is why I brought it up in the first place. And it was my mother and her husband. I do have a valid argument, you just can't seem to get past the point that my mother wasn't sure what to do. She actually asked me at the end of all of this if I have ever done this or would I...the answer is no I would not.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/09/2010

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I am not sure why this keeps getting turned around onto my mother. Fact of the matter is, she didn't know what to do. She was shocked and appalled. not sure why I have to keep saying that. Obviously you feel fine about it. Wonderful. I do not. The whole thing is about wether or not it is ok to leave a child on the floor of an airplane and what you would do. Not what my mother did or didn't do. I think she should have spoken up. She didn't. Why don't you point the finger at the parent or the airline attendant who's job it is to protect everyone on the flight...not the passenger who wasn't sure what to do. WOW!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/09/2010

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Final thought, for now. It is very interesting to me to see the difference of opinions between 2 different forums. Thank you for all that see this as unwise to place your child at your feet like a dog on an airplane.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/09/2010

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Oh, and isn't this usually how rules are made? Someone does something without using common sense, then someone gets hurt or killed...and then all of a sudden it is a law...could you imagine if you saw this on the news? "Baby dies of needless tradgedy. Airline is responsible for the death of a child due to neglectful parents placing infant on floor. Plane hits turbulance, baby goes flying and dies" Lovely thought.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/09/2010

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Ok, well we all have our opinions and ways of parenting...although I do resent the implicaation that my mother is an "embelisher" (which she is NOT) that is fine. I do not believe this is a "cultural" thing either..I feel it is irresponsible parenting of this couple. Not only did they place their defenseless infant on a floor where people put there dirty shoes (or even where people have taken off there dirty shoes and had bare feet or even sweaty nasty sock) think of what putting your child on a public floor they can be exposed to. Who knows, the last person who sat there could have stepped in dog poop, garbage, gum, spit...dirty parking lots, public bathroom floors...I mean the list goes on.

On another point, have any of you experienced turbulance? I know I have...I have been in turbulance so bad that if I wasn't wearing my seat belt, I would have hit the overhead thing. Most of the time pilots are good at telling when they are gonna hit it..but not always. That baby could have been seriously injured becouse of the lack of parent restraint. Oh, and yes, could have been stepped on if stuck an arm or leg in the isle. For those of you that do not see this as a problem...well..I don't even know how to respond to that. Rest assure, my 8 month old will NOT be on the floor of the airplane on Saturaday while I take a nap.

My mother did NOT know what to do...she was appalled and suprised that anyone would do such a thing. My mother is not one for confrontation...and it sounds like non of you would have batted an eye. She did the best she could, and watched the baby. Do not blame my mother for someone elses careless parenting. Atleast she was concerned.

Iysha - posted on 12/08/2010

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What? seriously? that is crazy....I recently had a flight from Illinois to California and my daughter fell asleep in my arms...and when my arm went numb, i layed her across the seats next to me so she could be sprawled out....with my arm on top of her in case of turbulance. But on the floor?!? Flights arent always smooth...there is turbulance, and times when the plane decends and turns...it isnt like a train where the ride is basically the same the entire way. There were some moments where if i wasnt wearing my seat belt, I would have slid to the next seat. I dont think the parents were too worried about it, otherwise they wouldnt have placed their baby on the floor but many parents can see no harm in doing things that can be harmful. JUST BECAUSE THE INFANT WASNT HURT DOESNT MAKE THE SITUATION SAFE! If it was a 2-3 hour flight like it was posted, then there is no reason why at least one parent couldnt be awake monitoring the baby. As someone said, it isnt any of our business...but if we were there on the plane and there was an infant on the floor and both parents were asleep, that means that the people in the plane become the people monitoring that baby, not them....that in my opinion is neglectful. Being in any place where there are other people and not keeping an eye on your child, not making sure they are okay, not being concerned that they may get hurt is just irresponsible. Not all parents are good parents and not all parents care...I think as good mothers, we forget that some people do things that are just plain unaceptable and there is no good thought process involved. Sometimes people do things out of pure convenience. I think that is what happened on the plane. The floor was a convenient place to put a baby so that the parents could get some shut eye.

Heather - posted on 12/08/2010

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Please don't take this the wrong way, it's also possible the the story has 'grown' in the time between when your parents were on the flight and your mother telling you.



How many times has the story been told? It's like that game 'Chinese whispers' :)



Non issue IMO, closed environment, and like an earlier poster commented, if your parents were so horrified they really should have pushed the flight crew a bit harder to something.



Quite frankly, you hear enough complaints about people traveling with noisy children / babies that I'm sure 90% of the neighbouring passengers were relieved they had a quiet baby next to them.



As for the comment about no accent and perfect English, that is just plain irrelevant. Parents are parents no matter where they are from.

Brooke - posted on 12/08/2010

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you do need to be very open minded... I took my daughter on a 2hr flight when she was 6 months old. At 6 months my daughter was not mobile, she could not crawl, walk or roll. I would not have placed her on the floor as we were on a cramped flight but if we were in a higher class with more room then yes, I would. I would do a few things differently like stay awake and read a book. I would place her on a blanket or in a carrier. But like what has been said already... If this child was at risk of being injured etc then why did your mother not do anything?? if she felt it was not her responsibility then maybe this topic shouldn't be up for discussion...

There are many things that we class as wrong, maybe this is one of them but is it really any of our business.. what difference are we making now?? what would you rather see, a babby resting on a floor or being fed chocolate etc??

Angela - posted on 12/08/2010

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Woe that is kind of scary. I guess I can see the thought that the baby really cant go anywhere on a plane, but still I mean some half drunk person could have been walking down the aisle and stepped on the baby or anything.

Sherri - posted on 12/08/2010

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Actually I don't have a huge problem with it either. Not like anyone could steal the baby or anything. Not sure what the difference is in holding the baby and going to sleep or laying the baby down and going to sleep. I think I would have been more upset if they had laid them in a spare seat by themselves as they could roll off and be seriously injured. Actually when we traveled to Florida by train when my youngest was 3. I laid him on the floor at my feet to sleep. I reclined in my seat and went to sleep too. However, not really the same since it was a 26hr train ride. But I guess my point is I never would have known if he wandered off either but I wasn't going to go without sleep either.

Megan - posted on 12/08/2010

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here is my two cents, they are the parents, they know how mobile/not mobile their child is. If the baby didn't try to leave, my guess would be the floor is about as safe as a parent who is asleep's lap (I know when I would hold my son and fall asleep, my hands would go limp after a while). I often fell asleep for naps with my son touching me so I would know where he was and would wake up if that contact stopped. II would also point out that a plane is a really isolated group of people and its not like someone could stroll by and grab the baby without others noticing, nor would the doors be opened while the baby was missing if you are concerned with kidnapping. I have actually seen parents put a child on the floor before on flights to stretch and wiggle, but never while BOTH of them go to sleep. I personally would not go to sleep if my hubby was asleep and vise versa while on a plane with kids.

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