abortion and where do you stand .

Michelle1544 - posted on 11/01/2012 ( 800 moms have responded )

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I'm pro-choice. I don't really understand how anyone would think they have a right to force a woman to remain pregnant or to deny her the right to make her own choice. I'm not pro-abortion either if I was then I wouldn't have children that I carried and gave birth to. Even when abortion was illegal there still were abortions , so what's the point in making it illegal?

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Jodi - posted on 11/05/2012

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"Which is a very sad truth that so many kids get lost in the system, however if a person is truly pro-life they are for every stage of life."



Which includes the times when the fetus is not viable (i.e. has developmental or genetic abnormalities and needs to be aborted), or when the mothers life may be endangered. In both of these circumstances, the mother should have the choice to abort. Do you want to take that choice away?

Sarah - posted on 11/05/2012

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Which is a very sad truth that so many kids get lost in the system, however if a person is truly pro-life they are for every stage of life.

Lauren - posted on 11/05/2012

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Melissa, your tax dollars go to fund PP in terms of providing low cost routine preventative health care for low income women. The services provided are pap smears, breast cancer screenings, STD screenings, etc. Federal funds do NOT pay for abortion. Those are paid for out of pocket by the patient & anyone who tells you differently is pushing propaganda for the purpose of closing PP. Nothing more.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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"And here's the crazy thing - adopting these kids takes next to no money at all. Free kids! Come and get 'em! And still, not enough interest for everyone to get a home."



Isn't it just so sad? So much advocacy for those not even born yet (heck, for those who can't think and feel, yet)...but where is the compassion for these youngsters? They think and feel loads of pain. Where is the rally cry for them? I'm beginning to believe the twittering birdies on FB - pro-lifers are pro-BIRTH...and not much else.

Lady Heather - posted on 11/04/2012

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"If the parent(s) cannot care for the child adoption is a great option where everybody can feel like they are winning. There are also open adoptions where the parent has the option to visit the child but where they can go to a good home where their needs will be met. There is no good reason to kill innocent babies"



http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/adoption/bullet...



That's a list of all the kids in my province who live "in the system". They have no permanent family to live with. Most people looking to adopt aren't interested because many of them have health challenges. Do I wish these kids were aborted instead? Obviously not. They are here and they are to be treasured. But the point is we already have so many without homes. I'm sure in the US there are many many more because you have such a large population compared to here. I check this page regularly because I do intend on adopting one of these children one day when the time is right for my family. There are kids on here who simply aren't ever going to get adopted. 14, 15, 16. Some have been bounced around foster care their whole lives. And here's the crazy thing - adopting these kids takes next to no money at all. Free kids! Come and get 'em! And still, not enough interest for everyone to get a home.



ADOPTION IS NOT SIMPLE.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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Abortions done between 17 and 26 weeks are very rare, and are usually due to complications with the pregnancy. Most doctors will not perform abortions after 20 weeks unless severe complications arise. In a lot of those rare cases, those are wanted pregnancies that cannot be continued either because the mother's life is in danger or the fetus won't survive. "Over 88% of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Over half of all abortions in the U.S. occur within the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. 6.7% occur between 13 and 15 weeks, 3.5% occur between 16 and 20 weeks, and 1.1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks or greater." - http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_sta... What you are talking about is a very very small margin. And actually, the nerve and brain function is still up for debate even by 26 weeks.

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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True true..that is the debate. So because we shouldn't stand up for those who aren't considered babies yet, what about the failed abortions that resulted in a succesful birth? Or abortions between 17 and 26 weeks? By then they have finally gotten some nerve and brain development. Surely they are humans.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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At what stage does it become a baby? Well, that is why there is a debate over abortion. Because that is a question not everyone agrees upon. Your view that it is at the cellular level is not an agreed upon definition. But it is YOUR truth. And that's fine, you are entitled to your belief about human conception and life. But the debate is, should you be entitled to impose that view on others through making it the legal definition, and therefore imposing on the rights of those who believe otherwise?

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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If it's in the stage of becomming one then it is...or is it half? a third perhaps? yes flippant I know :) Similar does not mean equal.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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It may not be human, but at the cellular level, they ARE very similar. And a glob of cells that cannot think and cannot feel pain is NOT a person. It's a stage in becoming one, but it isn't yet. A woman is not killing a baby, a human...she is killing a glob of cells that cannot think and cannot feel pain. THAT is where the line is drawn.

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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Although maybe I would have enjoyed swimming a lot more in highschool had I developed into a fish.....

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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"And aren't we specifically speaking of human life not that of bacteria?"



I only raised the issue of bacteria because you raised the issue of life on Mars :)

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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In that theory, is the bacteria at any point in its cycle human? No. That is the line, that is the 'scientific truth' whether you agree or not. All matter has similarities, that doesn't mean I could have been a fish or a cold virus.

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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That was rude and I apologize. I do hope that those who stand know in good concience why and not because the world views it a certain way.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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Science, Sarah, science. Yes, we all started as cellular globs. You don't have to like it, but the truth it be.



Bacteria and a fetus aren't so different at the cellular level. That's why we have to draw a line on what we consider "life". Aren't we also murdering that glob of cells that we call bacteria or a virus?

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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I see. So you were just a glob. And aren't we specifically speaking of human life not that of bacteria? Life is human conception no matter if it is recognized by the world as such or not. Comparing human life to a cellular glob......well we all may want to thank our "hosts" for choosing to keep their "globs" until they magically turned into babies.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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No problem, Jodi. :) I wasn't sure about it, either. In fact, I started typing a response and then decided to check to make sure I wasn't putting my foot in my mouth...lol. And yes, your comment still stands. This is why a line has to be drawn.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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LOL, Thanks for that Brandy, I hadn't been certain and couldn't be bothered checking. I know they've been looking for signs, but I also know it isn't exactly the same thing.



But my comment about bacterial infections stands. They, too, are life if you want to go by Sarah's definition.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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Sarah, no cells have been found on Mars. I just did a quick search and everything I'm turning up says no life has yet to be found on Mars. Here's an article dated 2 days ago that says no methane has been found, which is a precursor to finding life - http://updates.io9.com/post/34846491801/...



And again...define "life". A cellular glob that cannot think, feels no pain, and is sustained by a host can hardly be defined as "life". It is alive, yes...but not life.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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"Why deem it illegal even though it happened before? Death is death, whether conception just occured or the individual is 95 years old. If a person takes away that life they should be held accountable. Why do we as a culture see cells on mars as life but not inside a womb?"



Ah, well then, problem solved!! No more antibiotics either. Or even antiseptics, for that matter. You want to bring life on Mars into it, then lets focus on killing of bacteria shall we. After all, that, too, is life....right?

Sarah - posted on 11/04/2012

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Lets just face it this is going to upset some and at the same time validate others.......You can not be on both sides....either you are for life or not....it is impossible to value the life of the woman while disregarding the life of the unborn and say that every life is important. Yes there are cruel things in this world that I will never understand, but what I do know is that time and time again in our culture and so many others new life is felt as a light in the darkness.



Why deem it illegal even though it happened before? Death is death, whether conception just occured or the individual is 95 years old. If a person takes away that life they should be held accountable. Why do we as a culture see cells on mars as life but not inside a womb?

Keri - posted on 11/04/2012

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Every time something is made illegal, it just goes to a so-called "black market". If it was made illegal, doctors and hospitals wouldn't be able to do the procedure safely and correctly. Also, the phrases "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are so outdated and wrong though. Everyone is "pro-life" because that's what keeps the human race alive in the first place, everyone is "pro-choice" because they agree that women can choose whether or not they want to get pregnant. Personally, I would never have an abortion mainly because it's against my beliefs, but it also has health risks I don't want to take and down the line if I ever DID want to have a child, then that pregnancy would be as normal as any other (because the potential for complications rise for subsequent pregnancies after an abortion). No matter what way you lean on the issue, it should never have been politicized because it's a personal choice that no one should take away.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/04/2012

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Gotcha. Yup I agree, and get pissed off when people say "just close your legs" bullshit. How about telling the guys simply to keep it in there pants and keep the argument at least not sexist. LOL.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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No, I wasn't referring to your comment Little Miss. I was just generalising. It's this close your legs attitude that is generally thrown around. It's just not realistic.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/04/2012

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I hope you did not confuse my comment about sex education about abstinence. Definitely was not pushing that one. I would rather give education on sex and how to protect yourself then enforcing abstinence which goes against every fiber of my being.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/04/2012

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huh? I am a bit confused Jodi. I am strictly meaning educating about sex, including std's, pregnancy, and contraceptives. But you are right, typically abstinence is tacked onto that. I am not a strong enforcer of abstinence....more just about waiting until you are really ready. That is a difficult thing for some people to know though.



Ironically, and totally off topic.....every couple that I have met that has abstained before marriage (and yes I have known quite a few) were the ones with the highest rate of cheating. Go figure.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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The problem is this abstinence only view. It simply doesn't work, and it is proven not to work. I have never looked at the stats (and maybe I should) but I am willing to put money on it that the areas where there are high abortion rates are the same areas where there is abstinence only (or strongly promoted) education.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/04/2012

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It is all about education. More education about sex and protection, the less abortion. BUT women still have rights and that involves the right to choose.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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And here's the thing. I think BOTH sides of this debate would like to see a reduction in abortion rates. I mean, it's not like pro choice (who are not pro-abortion, by the way) are out there promoting increased abortion. What we ALL want to see is a way to minimise the circumstances that lead to women having to make this choice. The answer is not to just ban it, that is a very simplistic view on how to reduce abortion rate.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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Michelle, not everything is *free* here, but it is mostly affordable. And for low income, it is even more affordable, and minimal cost. I'd like to see birth control free and easy to obtain. It would be a step in the right direction.



Personally, I think any policy based on not only abortion, but also birth control, obtaining limited public funding is asking for trouble. I understand and respect that people have their personal beliefs about both of these issues, but not funding birth control, and then banning abortion is simply not compatible with reality.

Michelle1544 - posted on 11/04/2012

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Jodi . -



Wish ours covered it all ! The countries working towards making sure everyone is medically covered but we aren't there yet. Many people are currently against the changes being made and many seem to think that their tax dollars would then go towards birth control and abortion which isn't really true. But it's still all sort of in the infancy stage so I guess we'll have to wait and see what we end up with i. Personally I don't see the big issue with having ALL of our medical needs covered by insurance , why should some things not be covered? I don't need or want Viagra but don't care if my health insurance covers it . I think people get ridiculous about issues like birth control , seems archaic that it should even be debated.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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Kimberlee, I am Australian, so I am not particularly familiar with your funding there. I will look that one up. I just know our health system covers it all, pretty much.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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"Kimberlee, I believe abortion to be wrong. It is one of many things I think government has no business in regulating or legalizing."



@ Melissa, I also just want to clarify your position on this, because this statement is a little ambiguous [to me]. DO you meant the the government has no business, regulating, which means legalising, making illegal, or otherwise, they should just stay out of it?



I actually do understand the tax side of it. However, if you flip the coin, there are also many who think their taxes shouldn't be used to subsidise the extra children people have that they can't afford, or those who believe their taxes shouldn't subsidise the healthcare of smokers, Type 2 diabetics, and the list goes on. That is a line we'd all like to have a say in, but that's just not possible. How do you draw the line? You can't.

Kimberlee - posted on 11/04/2012

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going to check out cafemom now that they are back on line , it's been fun.

Kimberlee - posted on 11/04/2012

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Melissa Harnly - posted 1 hour ago

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Kimberlee, I believe abortion to be wrong. It is one of many things I think government has no business in regulating or legalizing. Not only do I not feel I can participate in it without going against my spiritual conscience but I don't want to support it financially with my taxes. The very fact that my taxes go to support ending the life of an unborn fetus goes against my beliefs. It is like many other govt laws that I find repugnant. Regardless, I don't agree with it. I'm sure I will be demonized for that but so be it. Personally, I am in favor of people accepting personal responsibility and making decisions based on intelligence and logic not emotion and physical gratification. When more people understand how to accomplish these we will have less unwanted pregnancies,fewer abortions, less debt, less crime and a whole host of other atrocities will decline. Again, I am compassionate about individuals who have had to face these difficult decisions.



---------------------------



READ the Hyde Amendment , your taxes do NOT go to pay for abortion.



Many people believe abortion IS Taking responsibility .



We will have less abortions when we have less unintended pregnancies , we need education and access to birth control.

Kimberlee - posted on 11/04/2012

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Desiree Smith - posted 1 hour ago

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Some use it as a way to get out of a responsibility. I think they should be punished for that...







What? Punished seriously ?

That's one of the most misogynistic comments I have read in this entire thread. So the women who can't afford a child , is leaving an abusive man who poked holes in the condom as a way to keep her pregnant and dependent on him , she should be punished - Oh puke !!

Melissa - posted on 11/04/2012

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Just wondering....have any of you all ever seen the movie, "The Miracle of Life"? It is a documentary about life from conception to birth.

Desiree - posted on 11/04/2012

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Some use it as a way to get out of a responsibility. I think they should be punished for that. If you are able to produce, and end up not wanting the child, at least put it up for adoption. However, if the situation was forced, or MEDICALLY unstable, then yes. The reason I say about if the situation was forced, think about it this way. Example: A woman is raped, carries it full term and gives the child up because it is too much of an emotional burden. Later on, the child grows up - and finds out how he/she was conceived. How do you think that person is going to feel? What kind of person wants to live with something like that? Knowing that the father is a pos, and that their birth mother didn't want them because she herself couldn't deal with it. Yeah, that's real good...Its really all a matter of an opinion. No, abortion should not be used as birth control. But, if it is a legitimate reason, then I don't think its fair to say that it should be illegal.

Melissa - posted on 11/04/2012

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Kimberlee, I believe abortion to be wrong. It is one of many things I think government has no business in regulating or legalizing. Not only do I not feel I can participate in it without going against my spiritual conscience but I don't want to support it financially with my taxes. The very fact that my taxes go to support ending the life of an unborn fetus goes against my beliefs. It is like many other govt laws that I find repugnant. Regardless, I don't agree with it. I'm sure I will be demonized for that but so be it. Personally, I am in favor of people accepting personal responsibility and making decisions based on intelligence and logic not emotion and physical gratification. When more people understand how to accomplish these we will have less unwanted pregnancies,fewer abortions, less debt, less crime and a whole host of other atrocities will decline. Again, I am compassionate about individuals who have had to face these difficult decisions.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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The way I see it, the main difference between someone who is pro-choice and pro-life is that those who are pro-life believe their views should be imposed on others. No-one who is pro-choice would ever make you have an abortion. We wouldn't even encourage you to do so. Not even a little bit. Mostly, we wouldn't choose it for ourselves, because it also goes against what we believe for ourselves. But someone who is pro-life wants to make it law that everyone must carry their baby to term regardless of the situation or their beliefs, and that their beliefs conquer all.



I have total respect for those who have religious beliefs that mean they must speak out against it as a sin and an atrocity. You are absolutely entitled to that view. Mostly, I actually agree with you. But speaking out against it, and making it illegal are two different things. Everyone is entitled to free speech (to a degree anyway, but that's a different issue). Your free speech does not encroach on my rights, and mine does not encroach on yours. But taking your faith and beliefs and making sure that legislation reflects those regardless of anyone's else's beliefs, is when it crosses the line.



*** I am using the term *your* in the general term, not specifically directing my post at any individual in particular.

Brandy - posted on 11/04/2012

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Chelsea, you keep bringing up the same points...we keep answering those points...and then you bring them up again. Are you not reading the posts?



a) An unborn fetus is not a thinking being. Without thought, it doesn't even know it exits. When it is aborted, it doesn't know it was aborted. This is scientific fact. That is why it has no rights. It cannot think and reason for itself. Because of that, the woman carries all the rights.



b) Yes, there are plenty of options to prevent pregnancy. What if the birth control fails and she finds herself pregnant? I have 2 kids. I don't want anymore. What if my birth control failed and I found myself pregnant? I should be able to decide if I want that unplanned pregnancy or not.

What about rape victims who find themselves pregnant?



c) Sex is ALWAYS risky behavior. Like I said, birth control can and does fail. Are you saying a married, monogamous couple who's on birth control because they don't want kids, and who suddenly find themselves pregnant should just deal with it? How very compassionate of you.



d) The unborn fetus is scientifically a bunch of cells that cannot think or feel pain. It is not a living, breathing innocent baby who is paying for the woman's "sin" by being aborted.



e) What about the father? I would hope that if the couple are together, they would talk it over and agree either to keep it or abort it. But ultimately it's in the woman's body, so it is the woman's choice. It can be a harsh reality, but to put limits on choice opens up a huge can of worms.



f) Yes, I support suicide. Again, how does someone I don't know, taking their life have any affect on me? I think there are better options than to take one's life, but who am I to force someone to do something against their will (in this case, live) when it has no affect on me?



g) It IS controversial, yes. No one said it wasn't. There is difference between a person killing themselves and aborting a fetus, though. When you take your life, you are actually taking a living breathing LIFE...one that can think and feel pain. When you abort a fetus, you a killing a bunch of cells that cannot think or feel pain.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/04/2012

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Very expensive here to Jodi. I think my friend paid $40,000 and this child was from another country. Also the rigorous testing and loop holes they have to maneuver through. It is NOT easy to adopt.

Melissa - posted on 11/04/2012

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Devon, you know what is really sad? Having to deal with these children in a free and appropriate public school when they are included in a classroom with other "normal" functioning children. Many have difficulty for the rest of their lives. However, these are the extreme cases. But, yes, it is sad.

Lauren - posted on 11/04/2012

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Again Chelsea, there's a difference between agreeing with your views & forcing others to agree with your views. Do I agree with your views? Yes. Should we force people that don't to follow your views? No.



I think each person has the right to take their own life if they so choose. Would I try to get the medical help? Yes. That's the difference there. Suicide is often caused by a deep psychological issue such as depression which can be curable. So we could try to save them with counseling & medication. If they want to kill themselves to not suffer horrible pain from late stage terminal cancer, should they have the right to take their own life? Yes. I support that. If a baby will have a horrible life & live in pain forever with a deformity, should the Mother have the right to end the pregnancy to prevent that pain? Yes.

Jodi - posted on 11/04/2012

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And about $50,000 apparently. It is totally prohibitive for most. Adoption is not the simple solution some claim it may be. In an ideal world, all babies would find warm and loving homes. But this is not Utopia, unfortunately.

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