Abortion - friendly discussion

Jessica - posted on 12/22/2009 ( 201 moms have responded )

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I live in Australia and just through conversation with one of my friends, realised our laws for abortion have changed from 12 weeks to up to 20 weeks, I personally think that 20 weeks is wrong i mean thats 5 months preganant, you know what sex it is by then.



I'm just curious to know what the laws are in other places/countries and what others think?!?!



I know the subject of abortion can get a bit nasty, but please keep it friendly

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Barbara - posted on 12/26/2009

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All I can say is that I am prolife, but don't judge a woman for having an abortion until you've walked a mile in her shoes...............

Angela - posted on 12/26/2009

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WOW. I have read the threads and some of you seem extremely angry about this discussion and based of the replies here, I'm pretty sure I will be getting a nasty reply to my post, but that's okay. Discussion is discussion.



First I would like to tell you the circumstances of 6 women that I know. 4 women where raped/molested by by an uncle, a father, a step-father and a brother. They all kept their babies, 2 of the moms don't look at their kids and see the father's they felt that the circumstances of the birth should have no bearing on the child. The other 2 moms feel resentment toward the children and can't look at the kids without seeing the father of their kids knowing that they are related to these kids in more than one way like mother/cousin or mother/sister. They felt that an abortion would've been better. One of my really good friends from high school put her baby up for adoption and she had a nervous break down because it bothered her so much worrying about her baby; that their was another human being related to her with her features with someone else. My cousin who is a beautiful 20 year old was conceived and her mother was taking birth control and had been for years. I myself had an abortion at 18 years old because I felt that I could not be a good mom at that age, I now have 3 beautiful kids an 18 year old going to college next year, a 6 year old in kindergarten, and a 4 year old little boy, and I often think about the child that I aborted and all that I went through to come to that decision it was hard mentally and emotionally and I cried for 6 months afterward wondering "what if", but I think about my life now and all of the things that has happened and I feel that as hard as that decision was, and I do mean hard, (I didn't sleep for 2 weeks straight, I got to clinic and turned around and walked out) I feel that it was the right decision for me at the time.



In my personal opinion I believe that 20 weeks is too far along for an abortion. However if someone chooses that road to take it is not my life to live. I grew up in an out of abused child care facilities and I have seen the worst of what people who don't care about their kids can do. I have seen a 9 month old baby with 3rd degree burns on the side of her face because her "mother" stuck a hot clothes iron to her faces. I have seen baby blinded in one eye because his father beat him so bad he had burst too many blood vessels in his eyes and detached his cornea, and in these facilities everybody has a horror story. I roomed with a girls who was being molested both of her foster parents. I heard so many stories of mom's and dad's tricking out their kids to make a buck to pay for drugs.



So in some cases I think abortion is right way to go and in some cases I don't believe that it is. I am not walking in the life of the person who has to make that decision. I try not to be judgemental because I have known too many people where abortion was the right thing for them at the time and I have known too many people who felt that abortion was not an option for them.



I do not believe that abortion should be used a contraceptive if someone keeps getting pregnant and keeps having abortions then someone needs to be talking to them and counseling them on other options not too mention that toll it takes on a woman's body if she keeps doing it. A woman can really cause herself a lot of physical issues if she's constantly having abortions.



Everyone has the right to this option but everyone does not have the right to judge someone else for their thoughts, feelings, actions on this subject.

Krista - posted on 12/22/2009

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I'm sorry, but abortion and friendly discussion just don't go together.

Isobel - posted on 12/22/2009

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Quoting Angie:

I don't think this can be a friendly conversation. For those that are pro abortion - it's a woman's choice. For those that are pro life it's murder at any stage. If you wanted a friendly conversation, this was not the place to start it. For myself, no matter the age of a child the mother is a murderer who selfishly chooses to kill her child - without exception.


see...I would word this a little differently...Those who are pro-choice see that the world is not black and white.  Those who are Anti-choice believe that they have the right to impose their moral systems on others.

Crystal - posted on 12/22/2009

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I agree with Laura it does have to be legal. Because whether you are prochoice, proabortion, or antiabortion..doesnt matter some woman somewhere is going to want it, need it or whatever and if it isnt legal she will find a way to get it done in some back alley with no sanitation or sterilization and possibly have far worse outcomes..and again it should be each individual woman's choice.

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Robbin - posted on 12/27/2009

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I believe that abortions should banned unless there is a life or death situation. Most preganacies r planned between 2 people. When ur not sure if. Aving children is good decision than both parties should use protection.

Melissa - posted on 12/27/2009

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I think a person whom choses to have sex should know the consequences of not using protection. I am for pro-choice, but only if the person had been raped, or through incest. But you cant honestly say you would raise a child that you have to look at everyday knowing that the father had raped you. And i know some would say give it up to someone who cant have a child, but look at it this way, your not the one suffering everyday for nine months straight. Just think about it, or until you've been in the situation, and i know for a fact you wouldn't want to be in this situation

Nancy - posted on 12/26/2009

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Interesting...Sorry but to me having an abortion at 20 weeks is 1st degree murder...I know we are to keep it friendly, so sorry if this offends any one...why wait that long? In the USA if a woman ends up loosing the baby at that stage of the pregnancy they will have a full on funeral for the lifeless body. The idea that a woman would put her self through that ordeal tells me that there is something terribly wrong with her and needs help. A friend of mine lost a baby around that stage of the pregnancy and it was devastating.

I think that we need to stop letting the law dictate what we ought to do and instead think about what is morally correct, the quick fix solutions are not always the best alternative to life's problems. Sometimes they end up costing us more than we could ever imagine.

Janet - posted on 12/26/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:

I have four beautiful adopted children that my husband and I waited many long years for. I LOVE their birthparents and stay in touch with all of them. I am SO incredibly thankful for my children and for the sacrifice their parents made. Their parents loved them VERY much. They didn't 'give them up', they chose to give them more. And their birthparents are proud of the decision they made to give them life, and place for adoption. They have ALL told me that themselves. I can't imagine this world without my children in it. They are healthy, smart, beautiful, creative, and so sweet and funny! The world is a brighter place because they are in it. I wish every woman in a crisis pregnancy would consider the adoption option. Adoption can enrich the lives of EVERYONE involved.



Praise the Lord to you. My sister lost 3 babies and i prayed with her she was told she would never be able to have children and that her uteris was deform so the babies had no room to grow in it. She had 2 healthy girls and that is why every child is so important.There are more people out there like you that need and love children so new mothers remember that.It devastate you to lose a child by miscarried or by aboration don't do it there are other choises out there.

Aimee - posted on 12/26/2009

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honestly, I had mixed feelings on it before I had children. I felt there were circumstances that it would be okay. In the US partial birth abortions is legal. When I was pregnant with number 2, I searched online to see what his development would look like at 10 weeks or so and was sickened by the pictures of 10 week fetuses that had been aborted and how they looked like tiny babies. So, from then on my views have changed. I don't judge, it's not my place but I do wish women would educate them selves on other options if they are pregnant (ie. adoption) and prevention of pregnancy if they don't want to become pregnant. It's sad for the unborn. If women want to stand up for themselves and their rights, I think they should become as educated as possible and seek help that involves not harming another life. That being said, I'd take one in a heart beat over it being aborted...I'd take them all.

Alexis - posted on 12/26/2009

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I am completely pro-choice. I do find it inappropriate to change it all the way up to 20 wks however, because by then the embryo has developed into a growing, healthy fetus! But if there is a medical reason or if it is evident the woman has been raped/molested, etc. they should be allowed an abortion at any time during their pregnancy. But for the most part, it is ultimately up to the woman to do what she thinks is best.

Beverly - posted on 12/26/2009

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i'm too old to know how far along is to far along to do an abortion,i just wanted to say that i had 3 babies,and if i had aborted any one of them my life wouldn't have been so full of love as it is. we had a lot of hard times where they had only what they needed,but when we had the money,they got what they wanted,they understood,and loved us anyways,if i had aborted i would have missed my grandchildren,holding them, there first smile,touching there little hands for the first,so small,gods creation,so perfect,our daughters gave that to us , because we gave them life.please think it over befor you abort,you have a small life inside of you,a living person, no matter how small, it's fighting to live.it's a part of you,maybe you can find it a home if you really can't keep it.i'm not tring to lector,thats how i feel about my 3 pregnacieys,i wouldn't haven't abotred any one of them.

Shannon - posted on 12/26/2009

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I only read part of the posts, but I will make a few comments.

Some argue that abortion is right in their minds if it is medically necessary or in rape cases. Unfortunately, over 90% (and some sources claim 99%) of abortions are simply chosen as a means of convenience. In other words, the MOTHER DECIDES she cannot have a baby for whatever reason. There were previous comments that a baby should die instead of being apart of the welfare system sometime in his/her future life. Instead of wishing death upon an innocent unborn child, I think it would be logical to reevaluate who we are voting into our government positions; so much money is wasted on petty things, yet it would be better to kill an unborn child then to upgrade the foster care system???? Everyone has their own problems and everyone heals.

The details of the laws regarding abortion is not a fix-it tomorrow situtation; it takes time in both directions. There cannot be a gray area when it comes to the legality of abortion. Once the law agrees to abort "for medical reasons" the laws will slant towards more convenient reasons, as it already has. Therefore, it just needs to be outlawed altogether. This is completely plausable when you consider the number of abortions committed for medical, rape, or incest is only 1-10%! The lack of choice for an abortion would only affect this many people. There are too many contraceptive options for those who are not ready to have children, thus an abortion for convenience should not be relevant. Humans are an adaptive species and can adapt to pretty much anything. More importantly, a woman who argues it is "her" body, does not understand that she is destroying another's body by having an abortion. As far as rights go, your rights end where another one's rights begin. This issue will not conclude any time soon, especially when the nation's (or state's) laws are conflicting. We punish (and are appalled when it does happen) people who murder pregnant women in a way that holds them responsible for two lives, even if the murderer does not know if the woman was pregnant. Further yet, they'd be held responsible even if the woman did not know she was pregnant!!

It was also stated previously on this discussion board that most young women who get abortions do not have other children yet. I didn't look up the validity of this yet but I do believe it as it sits on the table. Becoming pregnant the first time does not feel real, especially if it is unexpected. This life-changing situation is too big a concept to be understood until it feels real, when the baby is born.

Just keep these points in your thoughts when trying to justify unnecessary deaths.

Sheryn - posted on 12/26/2009

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Hi im from Australia as well and had no idea that they raised the time frame...However I dont totally agree with it.At 20 weeks bub has a heart beat,you can find out the sex and you can also start to feel bub moving.You also are getting a baby bump.I think raising it to 20 weeks is wrong but theres also the point of there maybe a medical reason for the decision.

Brenda - posted on 12/26/2009

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Abortion is a terrible thing to have to contemplate and my heart goes out to those who have to. But one thing I'd liek to say is that abortion is definitely akin to murder - murder of an unborn, innocent child. It should be avoided as far as possible, and for all those who think its a choice they have the right to make, well I don't belive they live guilt-free and happy lives after they abort a child. their conscience must surely give them a hard time. It's impossible to kill a baby and not have regrets.

Elyce - posted on 12/26/2009

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Wow 20wks??? Thats crazy! I dont judge people who have abortions but I know a woman who gave birth at 24wks and her son is now a happy healthy 4yr old. Its just getting a bit up there in time,

[deleted account]

Quoting Jane:



Quoting Erin:

Abortion sucks, BUT it's so great that us woman have the right to choose if we want to have one or not. I hope that abortion haters never have to be put in that situation, because wouldn't it be bad if you were going to die if you had the baby or were raped by your father and you didn't have the right to have an abortion?? I'm glad I have a choice and can make that decision for myself, and it's no one's business what I do.






Most "abortion haters" don't have a problem w/ it if the mother is @ risk of dying. As far as being raped by your father I would imagine that falls into the same category. It's the women that decide "this just isn't the right time", or "I don't want to ruin my body", or think they can use abortion as a form of birth control or because the woman was irresponsible & didn't use any birth control.  These are the situations that "abortion haters" have  the most issues with.






you got it in a nut shell. anyone would have a problem with people like this who have no conscious what so ever and act out of 100%stupidity.Its just convenient to them to abort &some people don't have hearts and don't think about the unborn child  what so ever.of course this is going to be upsetting to people.As most women who abort are doing it for there own convenience.Lack of respect for another life is going to anger us.BUT alot of women who have had to have an abortion are not like those other women...i can only have compassion for the victims of rape and women who have to terminate there pregnancy because of health risks or the unborn baby being severely deformed that must be an unbearable decision to make.my heart gos out to them because i no the feel the loss of that baby for forever.At the end of the day we all make choices that only we ourselves have to answer for.were not living with the loss those women are. 

Carol - posted on 12/25/2009

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In the USA, abortion is legal all nine months. This is why partial birth abortions are still being performed--during the final 3 months of pregnancy, the baby is too large and strong to be killed reliably by methods such as suction or salt poisoning, and it is more dangerous for the mother at that stage. It is not publicized well, but abortion is still very dangerous for women. The list of possible complications is long, from infection and infertility to breast cancer. We don't know how many women die or are maimed by abortion because these events are often hushed up, but the statistics we do have are alarming.

So I am grieved that the USA courts are so unfeeling as to allow this carnage--not only babies are dying. My personal experience of an unplanned pregnancy at age 40 with many difficulties shows that it's far more rewarding to overcome obstacles and welcome the child. My baby is 23 now and a great joy to us. All life is precious!

Lise - posted on 12/25/2009

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After watching my baby move in the 20 week ultrasound, and show so much of her personality, that - to me - is heartbreaking. I don't believe in abortion personally, but for those who want one, why would you wait so long? The baby has so much of her body formed by then.

Jaime - posted on 12/25/2009

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In North America and many other countries throughout the world, abortion has been legalized to give each woman the CHOICE to decide whether she does or does not want to remain pregnant...no matter what the reason is. As horrifying as it might seem to some people to abort a fetus before or after 20 weeks, it is still a choice that women have the right to make. I can't imagine what it would be like to be that woman laying on the operating table, legs spread apart while the doctor prepares the apparatus that will extract the fetus growing inside of her...all I can think is that it must be one hell of a difficult decision considering the mental, emotional and physical ramifications of such an ordeal. For me it is simple...at the end of the day I am grateful to have the right to decide what I do and do not want in my life at any given moment. As much as children are blessings, gifts, miracles, joys, the light of one's life...they are tiny human beings at birth that require love, nurturing, and support for the rest of their lives...and if a woman believes that she is incapable of providing these necessities for her child, then the world is better off if she decides to abort!

http://www.abortiontoronto.com/

Above is a link to an abortion clinic in Toronto, Canada. I live in Ontario and it looks as though we have the right to abort up to 20 weeks gestation. What I find interesting is that the primary directive of the clinic is not to abort by the thousands, but to ensure the health and well-being of each woman that comes through their doors. Abortion is not about a quick fix to an epidemic of one-night stands, broken condoms or defective children...it's an emotional process that can and likely does take years and possibly a life time to overcome.

Tiffany - posted on 12/25/2009

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I don't think abortion is right at any age. I heard my son's heart beat at 5 weeks old. At 3 months I could see his little body.....at 5 months I could see organs forming and working. Don't abort......please choose adoption. You can make a family really happy. And you will feel better about yourself :)

Tiffany - posted on 12/25/2009

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Quoting Jessica:

Abortion - friendly discussion

I live in Australia and just through conversation with one of my friends, realised our laws for abortion have changed from 12 weeks to up to 20 weeks, I personally think that 20 weeks is wrong i mean thats 5 months preganant, you know what sex it is by then.

I'm just curious to know what the laws are in other places/countries and what others think?!?!

I know the subject of abortion can get a bit nasty, but please keep it friendly


 

Thea - posted on 12/25/2009

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I agree - there is a separate forum for abortion discussion - this is the MOM's discussion group. If you want to discuss abortion pro or con, join one of those groups.

Roxanne - posted on 12/25/2009

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Ok well I was not attacking anyone in specific, I was explaining the situation and I needed clarity on that matter. However if you feel it is attacking and whatever, then I agree, to save us all the irratation I vote this subject be thrown out the window.

Cherie - posted on 12/25/2009

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I agree with you. It doesn't matter if you have an abortion or try some other way of being irresponsible that results in your baby dying. A person should be charged with killing another human.

Amanda - posted on 12/25/2009

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A warning was put up as soon as Jessica posted this question. Everyone was told that that this is a touchy subject and to keep it civilized. We are all entitled to our opinions and some of you have very strong feelings on the subject. I don't care how strong your feelings are, some of you are pushing it too far and are being blatently rude, intolerent, judgemental and nasty. This thread will probably be shut down if some of you cant tone it down a bit. This site was put up for discussion and advice, not debate and personal attack.

Roxanne - posted on 12/25/2009

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wow this is a big discussion. I want to know what is the difference between abortion and killing your baby? There was a woman who fell pregnant (I didn't personaly know her but the grape vine was divided between one person). She drank to get mother-less and chain smoked, by 28 weeks the baby had died, week 30 the DR found out and they had to remove the baby. The baby was black from head to toe. Strange thing is, is that the mother wanted the baby and everyone had been worning her to stop. There might be a law against people aborting babies at a certian period but there should also be a law against killing them yourself. It is something that has been playing on my mind ever since I heard this.

Cherie - posted on 12/25/2009

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There are women out there who can't have children. Then there are stupid women who get pregnant and think that they can take care of this problem. When it is there own stupid fault. This is not the child's fault. Think before you have sex. I almost lost my daughter and I am thankful everyday that God blessed me with her.

[deleted account]

No-one has the right to criticise a woman's decision to terminate a pregnancy ! As for your comment that by 20 weeks " you know what sex it is by then " , hello, many women choose NOT to know the sex of their child . Aborting a child is a very serious and difficult decision and is done for many different reasons. Sorry would like to keep this friendly but I find your comments incredibly naiive and most unhelpful. A bit more empathy and emotional support for those women who find themselves in this awful prediament would be a much more positive reaction.

User - posted on 12/24/2009

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I think it is really important to educate oneself on the topic of abortion. There are so many outright lies out there. The percentages of women who get pregnant due to rape are very low and so is the percentage of women whose life is at risk due to a pregnancy. There are so many medical advancements out there. Women can have cancer and receive treatment without harming the baby (not always in every case though). I just feel like, as a nation, we are led astray by abortion supporters...abortions would be performed so minimally if they were only performed for the reasons of rape/pregnancy and mother's life at risk!

Patricia - posted on 12/24/2009

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I have a friend who had her son at just over 20weeks.... He is the most beautiful boy with THE most energy you have ever met...he is now nearly 4 and is more full on than any of my 3 children!!



just food for thought

Thea - posted on 12/24/2009

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In the effort to get this back to topic.... the question had to do with what was legal where - in the US, it varies from state to state - what is legal in one state may or may not be in a neighboring state. In the 60's it was illegal in almost all states, BUT, it was legal in Washington, DC - so if you lived on the East coast, that's where 'we' went (not me personally, but I had several friends... ya' know?) Laws have changed over the years - in the 60's you couldn't even get a pregnancy TEST before you were in your 4th month, and by that time, an abortion was very risky, and often done by a shady character in a dirty environment, and there were many deaths resulting from the infections that followed for those unfortunate enough to attempt it.

NOW, the tests are avail. in drug stores OTC and you can test yourself in confidence as early as a week... WOW, have things changed!

However, there is one thing that hasn't changed, and that is the emotional roller coaster you go through if you do 'terminate' because your hormones suddenly don't fit your situation, and it is something that you should ask your dr about PRIOR to making a decision.

A medically induced termination is available all over the US, although not in every state.

User - posted on 12/24/2009

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I am in the UK and I believe the latest you can abort is 24weeks, which is discusting unless there are medical issues. I myself have had an abortion at 6 weeks gestation. I was 16 at the time and my boyfriend to say the least was a t**t! As much as I regret making the decision, it was the best decision for me and definatly for the child. I wouldn't have been able to provide for the baby. Me and boyfriend were using contraception but obviously its not always 100%. What is wrong about abortion is when it is used as a form of contraception because people can't be arsed to use anything and a decision like that definatly does NOT take 24 weeks to make. As hard a decision you know in your own heart of hearts what is right for you and the child. When me and my partner go on to have children now, I am qualified at a job I love and so is he. Continuing with the pregnancy, I wouldn't be able to turn my life around. Abortion is right for some people when used for the right reasons such as medical grounds, not right as a form of contraception!!!

Bobby - posted on 12/24/2009

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Hi,
I just recently heard Christine Caine an Evangelist from Australia at The Life Church in Memphis. Nonetheless, I live in Tennessee and an abortion can be done up to 3 months. Many people travel to California where it's allowed up to 5 months. Partial-birth abortions are illegal, it's when the child must be killed before they exit the womb. They are sometimes finished off with a stab of forceps to the back of the head. Nonetheless, I love children and the recent story of the Brazilian two year old tugged at my heart. He was stuck with sewing machine needles over a series of months by his step father. I think 42 needles in all were surgically removed from him. Sometimes children are born and unwanted and unloved as well. I believe that all aborted babies go to heaven and are free from torment.
Signed
tried to keep it friendly

Bobby - posted on 12/24/2009

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Quoting Jessica:

Abortion - friendly discussion

I live in Australia and just through conversation with one of my friends, realised our laws for abortion have changed from 12 weeks to up to 20 weeks, I personally think that 20 weeks is wrong i mean thats 5 months preganant, you know what sex it is by then.

I'm just curious to know what the laws are in other places/countries and what others think?!?!

I know the subject of abortion can get a bit nasty, but please keep it friendly


 

Renee - posted on 12/24/2009

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Quoting Christi:



Quoting Renee:

Christi - what abortion bill did President Obama pass? Are you referrring to the health care bill that is going through the senate and house? That is not a piece of legislation specifically about abortion although it does state that the federal government will not pay for abortions. Abortion laws are still regulated by each state. The only "federal" part is that abortion is still legal in the U.S.





no he passed a bill, one of the firsts things he did while in office that i think, don't quote me, that legalized abortion past a certain week. it has nothing to do with the health care bill, although i think that it is sick that they are fighting to add abortions to health care.





No they are not fighting to add abortion to the healthcare bill.  They lost that battle and no FEDERAL money will go to pay for them.  Just kind hearted people who donate to places like Planned Parenthood who do more for women in this country than almost any other non-profit organization.  Oh and the bill that he signed was for women who were in life threatening situations not for anything else.

User - posted on 12/24/2009

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I was in my 40's when I had an unexpected pregnancy---and abortion was never an option. My baby is now 4 years old, my 3rd and last child, and as a mom in her late 40's, I can't imagine starting over again--yet I would, if I found I was pregnant (hubby decided to "take care of things" this time. And so did ALL of his 40ish year old friends!). I think we who adore life at any stage should be making more of a case for doing what is good, noble, true, right, and just. With patience and perseverence. I believe I once helped sway a decision against abortion by gently asking the person "When you are 80, and looking back at your life, what do you think you will have wished you had done at this time?" They looked at me, and decided to keep the baby.

Julia - posted on 12/24/2009

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Quoting Christi:



Quoting Julia:

All of you who say you can judge a person who has had an abortion and state that your belief in God is the reason you can do this....well wasn't it Jesus who said "He who is without sin cast the first stone"? Not a damn one of you can judge me and by judging people for choosing for themselves what is good for them at that time in their lives you are sinning yourself. So take your righteous asses to church and ask for forgiveness for being so damn closeminded.






how is being against abortion close minded. i can't believe you are calling yourself a christian and then in the same breath saying that you have killed a gift that God himself has given to you. it sounds like you should be the one doing the praying. yes, i have made my share of mistakes, but my hands are clean, i have never killed an innocent child. it shows how messed up our society is that it is ok to kill an innocent child, but dog beaters spend life in prison.






Hey you might want to read my post from earlier.  I never had an abortion but I almost did.  The only reason I didn't was because I didn't have parental consent and I was under 18.  But if you look back and read then comment on what I said.  Also I said closeminded because you don't look at the whole picture.  Before abortion was legalized there were numerous DEATHS of women from back alley abortions.  Women who were raped, women who were raped by relatives (also known as incestuous).  Sorry completely believe that it is a woman's choice.  And I never said I was christian, did you read my last name?  In case you didn't it PAGAN!

Kim - posted on 12/24/2009

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I think the laws are the same in the US with certain stipulations. I think abortion should not be allowed after 16 weeks. 5 months thats just disgusting and wrong.

Julia - posted on 12/24/2009

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Quoting Christi:



Quoting Julia:

All of you who say you can judge a person who has had an abortion and state that your belief in God is the reason you can do this....well wasn't it Jesus who said "He who is without sin cast the first stone"? Not a damn one of you can judge me and by judging people for choosing for themselves what is good for them at that time in their lives you are sinning yourself. So take your righteous asses to church and ask for forgiveness for being so damn closeminded.






how is being against abortion close minded. i can't believe you are calling yourself a christian and then in the same breath saying that you have killed a gift that God himself has given to you. it sounds like you should be the one doing the praying. yes, i have made my share of mistakes, but my hands are clean, i have never killed an innocent child. it shows how messed up our society is that it is ok to kill an innocent child, but dog beaters spend life in prison.






Hey you might want to read my post from earlier.  I never had an abortion but I almost did.  The only reason I didn't was because I didn't have parental consent and I was under 18.  But if you look back and read then comment on what I said.  Also I said closeminded because you don't look at the whole picture.  Before abortion was legalized there were numerous DEATHS of women from back alley abortions.  Women who were raped, women who were raped by relatives (also known as incestuous).  Sorry completely believe that it is a woman's choice.  And I never said I was christian, did you read my last name?  In case you didn't it PAGAN!

Tammy - posted on 12/24/2009

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wow that is really scarry for that far along. I had premies and one was 27 weeks and one 29 weeks. they both stayed in hospital for a month but that just seems so close to that time frame and they can survive. are they saying for health reasons or other. I know my 13yr old has kidney problems and they were suggesting I abort because he had a 1 in a million chance of surviving. He is now 13. you cant tell by looking at him. he has had many surgeries but he wants to be a vet or a doctor so what a loss the world would have had....good luck to anyone in this situation.

Amanda - posted on 12/24/2009

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In the United States it varies by State on when you can get an abortion. Most are at 24 weeks that you are allowed to have one. There are laws in place for each state for teens under the age of 18 also. http://www.essortment.com/articles/abort... on teen abortion. I do and do not believe in abortion. Let me explain this. I do believe in it if it for medical reasons. Couple examples of this is a tubel pregnancy and if the fetus is on the out side of the uterus. These can be deadly to the mother. I do not believe in it because I feel if you are old enough to lay down and do the do than you are taking a risk that you could and will become pregnant. I do not feel that they should have taking sex talk out of the school systems. I had my 12 year old tell me at the age of 8 that she was going to have a baby at 14. I had just giving birth to my 5 year old at that time and made my daughter take care of her (with me right there of course) it changed her mind real quick. I think that they need to keep this stuff in the schools with permission from the parents . I do not think that the baby thing that they do at school is very effective. Yes giving out condoms may promote sex but it will stop all these unwanted pregnancies and all the abortions. Now as far as adults go if you lay and spread and did not want to get pregnant then maybe you should not have in the first place. I know that some people are rapped and I totally understand if they too would get an abortion.

Peita - posted on 12/24/2009

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Quoting Jodi:



Quoting Peita:

If you think about it, you can deliver a baby at 26 weeks and they can survive, I think 20 weeks is way too long, but again, I wouldn't judge anyone who chose to take this route.






Please note, decriminalisation is not the same as legalising.  A woman can't just walk in off the street at 20 weeks and ask for an abortion. Only a qualified doctor can make the decision to perform an abortion for documented MEDICAL reasons (not because the woman "wants" it).  So really, all these laws are doing is allowing something that was happening anyway, but removing the red tape which required the doctors to go to court to obtain a legal document to do it.






Jodi, I never referred to the legallity or decriminalising of abortion, I merely gave an opinion!!  Maybe I didn't quite word it right, but I do understand the need / want of abortion at this late stage!  I have had 2 close friends terminate their pregnancy just before 20 weeks and just after (about 23 weeks) due to extreme genetic problems and it was the hardest decision they have had to make. !! Either way, it is a very personal choice and I sit on the fence with abortion, who am I to judge what someone else chooses to do!

Jessica - posted on 12/24/2009

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Quoting Karen:

I personally am against abortion but what I really have a question is for the OP. What difference would knowing what the sex of the baby is? Sadly, I have read that in China that is the very justification used to kill many girls. The valuable human life ended just because they are the wrong sex...



Hi Karen,



 



I just meant that by then the baby has even formed into a male or female, so the pregnancy has progressed along that much to know the sex. Thats horrible to hear about China, but i guess its part of their way of life.

Karen - posted on 12/23/2009

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I personally am against abortion but what I really have a question is for the OP. What difference would knowing what the sex of the baby is? Sadly, I have read that in China that is the very justification used to kill many girls. The valuable human life ended just because they are the wrong sex...

Jodi - posted on 12/23/2009

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Ladies,
I have reopened this topic for discussion, but could you please refrain from any further personal attacks, and also keep to the topic at hand. The OP has basically asked what people think about abortion over 12 weeks. This is not the same question as what you think about abortion. Opinions are more than welcome, but in expressing your opinion, please have respect for others. I will not hesitate to close the thread permanently if necessary.

Thank you
Jodi Adams
CoM Moderator

Serene - posted on 12/22/2009

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Quoting Sharon:



I don't care if YOU are against abortion.  I am NOT against it.  You will not tell me what to do with MY BODY.






does that make any sense at all to you?

Do you have any idea of the number of children that are in foster care? 






How many have you adopted?





Zero, but My mother, her brother and all her siblings were adopted. My sister was adopted. I have friends that have been waitng upwards of 10 years to adopt a baby. They have been approved, there is just none available. 



 



As an aussie girl. I think the "freedoms" you are talking about are disgusting. It should be illegal unless medically necessary. They made whoopie, they should deal with it! Here until I believe 16 weeks, you can walk into a clinic and ask for one. All you need is a 15 minute consultation with the practice psych, and away it goes! Yay no more baby and all that jazz.. Its dreadful!



 



As for the rape scenario I addressed earlier, No I dont think that baby is an abomination either, but Im certain the woman carrying it would. The pregnancy would remind her every day of the violation she experienced. If she can handle it, she is a stronger woman that I would be, but I do believe that in the event the MAP doesnt work, she should be offered it. 



 



Before anyone flames me and asks me when I have had to think about that, I have had 3 kids, my oldest is almost 10 and Im 25. You do the math. I didnt abort because "I wasnt ready". I made my bed, I slept in it, then I slept in it!

Katherine - posted on 12/22/2009

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I closed this thread because it has spun off topic. The question was lost in personal attacks. If you want to continue I will do a 24 hour lock, if all has simmered down myself or a moderator will reopen it.

Thanks,

Katherine

Admin

wtCoM

Jessica - posted on 12/22/2009

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Quoting Renee:

Also an abortion past I think 12 weeks would only be for a woman or baby in extreme danger of death and would require a doctor to verify the situation as life threatening. A woman pregnant 24 weeks would not be able to walk into a clinic and receive an abortion "at will".


Obama  is pro-choice to every extreme.  Its not danger of death that these are allowed, it is danger or safety to the mothers health.  Which leaves it open to not only physical but mental health.  So basicaly it is not hard for a mother to get late term abortions



 This is some of his history

















Opposed born-alive treatment  (Oct 2008)



















Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)







Voted NO on prohibiting partial birth abortions

Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)

Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)

Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)

Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)

Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education on abortions & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)







Partial Birth Abortions happen after 20 wks and up. This abortion consist of a mother delivering her baby feet first, then the doctor inserts forceps into the back of the babys skull and with a vacum he then sucks the brains out and then finishes the delivery.  These are performed after 20 weeks later.



born alive abortions are when the abortion was unsuccessful and the baby was born alive.  These babys are set off to the side to die with no medical attention.  

Jodi - posted on 12/22/2009

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Quoting Tracey:



There are also many side-effects for the mother after having an abortion - did you know it increases your chances of getting breast cancer? Apparently that happens because your breasts start to go through tissue changes but if you abort then the breast tissue does not complete the change cycle.






THAT is an absolute myth. And if you use that reasoning, then miscarriages also increase the rate of breast cancer.  The studies on which you are relying were unreliable and the data was not collected in a way that it could be relied upon.  Recent, more controlled, research now shows that there is absolutely no association between breast cancer and abortion. 



http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/facts...



 

Sharon - posted on 12/22/2009

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Christ on a stick ladies.



I'm happily married with three kids and if I took a pregnancy test tomorrow and it was positive I'd be the first person in line at PP for an abortion.



I have THREE kids. One more - it doesn't seem like a big deal but babies aren't cats. You can't put them to sleep when they're horribly ill and your family is in dire finacial straits. And the government (Hahaha!) is NOT always there to pick up the tab.



I do not think my body could handle another pregnancy. I know our finances can't.



(edited to insert the word "IF" )

Jaime - posted on 12/22/2009

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Quoting Kyle:



Quoting Crystal:

Tanya dear..you are very naieve to life arent you? How old are you?? You are acting very unreasonable and immature here. I dont agree with abortion either but I am not stupid dumb enough to think there is never reason for it...rape, molestation, incest, disease, fetal disability, death,etc. There are all kinds of reasons that a woman may choose to abort and it isnt your place or anyone else's to dictate whether it is appropriate or judge them for it. Not everyone has had the sugar coated spoiled life you seem to have had. I can not imagine how a 12 year old incestual rape victim would feel trying to deliver her father's, grandfather's, uncles, cousins, etc etc baby! Please try to open your eyes and mature a little here. This is a very touchy subject for most and it doesn't need to become an attack on Sharon, JoAnna or anyone else that says they are Prochoice or Pro abortion





You think Tanya is being unreasonable and immature, seriously?? have you not been reading Sharon Grey's posts? This woman is constantly starting up arguements on peoples posts just to get things started. Which i think is immature and childish. especially from someone of her age!! ABORTION IS MURDER! ABORTION DOES NOT MAKE YOU UNPREGNANT IT JUST MAKES YOU THE MOTHER OF A DEAD BABY. PERIOD!




Sharon is a realist and you just have to accept that.  I have read her posts and her thinking is far from unreasonable.  She makes a valid argument in favour of abortion no matter the reason for going through with it.  Although you are perhaps not accustomed to her blunt approach, it is far more valid in this discussion than your rant:



"ABORTION IS MURDER! ABORTION DOES NOT MAKE YOU UNPREGNANT IT JUST MAKES YOU THE MOTHER OF A DEAD BABY. PERIOD!"...just to clear a few things up: abortion is legal, abortion DOES IN FACT make you un-pregnant and it does NOT IN FACT make you the mother of a dead baby--I promise!

Teresa - posted on 12/22/2009

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I think it should only be allowed if the mom is having problems or if she has been rapped. And I do agree at 20 weeks is a bite much.

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