always wondered?? children that were NOT immunised have same behaviours as children that are

Di - posted on 11/14/2011

So many things contribute to behaviour- genetics, upbringing, life experiences etc -it's impossible to isolate one factor. Interesting question though! PS My 3 kids were all immunised and are all healthy and well behaved (and they are all teens now- so far so good....)

Jocelyn - posted on 11/14/2011

I have heard a lot about the MMR changing a child. A friend of mine worked with kids with special needs and many of those parents said their child "changed" after that shot!



I also read a case won for child who got autism from a vaccine. They said that it wasn't caused by the vaccine but the child was already pre-disposed to it. The gene was already in them. How are you to know if your child is that one? This is their story...

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shorts...



Another woman received the flu shot and ended up being disabled for the rest of her life! It happens! Her story came up at the top of my post...



We just have to be aware...

Kate CP - posted on 11/13/2011

You ARE aware that things like ADHD, Aspbergers, and Autism all run in families...right? And that if you have one child with one of these disorders their siblings are almost twice as likely to have it as well.

Janine - posted on 11/13/2011

jocelyn, and others, the info i have shared with u, if u recall was researched by my daughter, not me. i hope that was clear. it is ashley that totally 100% feels that kaden's one shot and now i cnt remember which one, was it the MMR, the after that kaden was not the same child. his whole personality changed. long story short, he is now highly functioning autistic, was not b4 the shot.......that is all i can say, pls draw ur own conclusions, as i am not making a judgment call here just sharing information that ik has been extremely interesting to find out.......heck when ashley was a baby, they gave her 4 shots at one time, 2 in each thigh. now maleia, ashley's one year old, has only had one shot, and i was the guilty partner in that one, cuz i think i took her to get it.....naughty grandma.....maleia has had no other shots.......i watched all 3 of my grandkids last night for 5 hours, i was bout ready to pull my hair out.....they all got in trbl and had to sit on the couch and watch sponge bob til the dvd was over, kegan and kaden escalate each other so badly.....well, little miss maleia proceeded to open every cupboard door she could, pull anything she could reach offf my kitchen table, and just swoooosh it down on my kitchen floor. she just kept on going and going and going and going and going.......finally i got a lil pissed off at her.......i guess she does this at home and ashley doesnt get after her. maleia was like a white tornado that came thru my house. she throws things, yells, not bad yells, but yells, chases freckles our dog and corners him and wants to pet him, she dumps pens and pencils off my compter in my cups out on the floor.......ok. enuf said about maleia.......maleia has no reason to have anything, now she would b a good candidate for ADHD, if i knew it wasnt from lack of discipline from her mom and dad, and remember maleia had one shot, that is all. her behavior is out of control, now whether it is ashley and travis or something else surfacing.....we will see.. ashley says maleia is her only "normal" child.....

ok, kegan had all his shots, he is a little 8 year old stinker, but really ashley and kegan are 2 peas in a pod, that accounts for alot of the behavior issues with him, plus he does very poor academically. so he has had his shots, has ADHD, OCD, DD, and some anxiety, and is EXTREMELY impulsive. did the shots cause any of this, we dont know.......

then along comes kaden......by this time ashley has done some reading, talking with her public health nurse, and really digging into what all is put into these vaccines to make them work, the things that we dont know about that makes them effective, and possibly the serum itself. kaden was a healthy, happy, 10-month old lil guy, walking, talking, just a moving right along, and im not positive when he got the MMR shot, but the day after ashley noticed him becoming unresponsive.......and after much doctoring, researching, etc. her drs. and her decided that is kaden's case there was a link between his last set of shots and his autism.....that is all i can say.
now i have learned that ashley's dr., she is a mom of 2, also, when maleia is due for her next shot, stephanie mckee will not continue to b maleias physician anymore if she doesnt get this next shot.......altho they r doing it very carefully.......Stephanie McKee is totally aware of what had happened to kaden.....oh, also stephanie mckee had had none of her three kids immunized.....but instead of giving the kids 4 shots at one time, stephanies kids and maleia will get one at a time......becuz stephanie, a PA, too also believes shots can cause Autism, and other things to happen to our kids.....then i think i saw it posted at our clinic that all children must be caught up on all the REQUIRED immunizations b4 they start K or Pre-school. so since i posted the info, things have already changed. i dont believewe have a dr. here who will let ur child go un-immunized.....now as of nov. 13, 2011. and that could change tomorrow.....i think ashley said that if they can at least wait til the child is older to begin their shots, that there is less chance of there being issues with immunizations. i am sry to the above person who said i was 100% sure.........no one is ever 100% sure of anything in life......we do what our gut and head tell us, put it in God's hands and pray that nothing bad happens to all of our kids!!!!! Have a Wonderful Evening!!!! i like the RESPECT not THUMPS, some of the comments were very rude and disrespectful on here, so i jumped off for quite awhile......the lady was just asking a question.....if u r havin a bad day, and ur reading about sumthin, dont comment, go back on the next day when u feel better and comment.......nobody likes to feel like they are being put-down for asking a question that is very true to their hearrt.

Jocelyn - posted on 11/13/2011

With my first I immunized him every time they told me to, he would get a cold and then bronchitis every time. So he was really sick every few months, it was awful. When he was a year old he ended up in the hospital with double pneumonia! With each child after that I had less done at a time and a longer stretch in between.

With my youngest daughter I didn't have her immunized as a baby and she ended up with the same things my oldest son did, she was in the hospital with RSV at 9 months. So for her it wasn't the immunizations. Her first shot was at 3 years old! The one thing that I liked about waiting for so long for her to starts is that she doesn't have to get as many done, since she is past the stage they feel they need them the most.

I am waiting for the link between autism and vaccinations. I don't "not agree with them" I just think they do too many, too soon. Their first shot is at birth! Non of my children have any of those things from not having their shots on time or at all...

Sharlene - posted on 10/22/2011

Hi , I've got two older children and two babies all my children have been immunised my older boy has autstim and had behavior problems. Alot of us mums that have had children with autsim and that got there children immunised .There's no proven fact about the opinion but alot of mother's Ive spoken to believe, My son was born with autsim at birth I believe not because of the immunistion needles. cheers

Kirsten - posted on 10/22/2011

I think your point is valid. Just like prescription drugs, vaccinations are filled with harmful chemicals that can cause all types of diseases and other problems. Christ, there is a pill for psoriasis that causes cancer within a week of taking it and there are harmful dyes and other additives to pretty much everything on the mainstream markets. Anyone wonder why health care is private? There's lots of money to made when you create patterns of disease.

We do vaccinate our children, but we try not to use products without really knowing what's in them and making more natural choices (note: also doesn't necessarily mean things that are labeled "natural"- you would be surprised what terminology can be thrown around in marketing). We also prefer using 100% content essential oils.

Bonnie - posted on 10/12/2011

I know of a lot of people who never knew a can of tuna has mercury in it. After eating pretty much an entire can of it, they didn't really like the idea they had eaten an entire can in one sitting.

Michelle - posted on 10/12/2011

Yes Jodi, deep sea fish is high in Mercury and it's recommened not to have it more than once a week.

Jodi - posted on 10/12/2011

I decided to go with the obscure stuff that no-one thinks of, rather than the obvious, but hey, yep, a can of tuna will do the trick too. Not even a can of tuna really. Just a nice fresh ocean fish from the market.

Bonnie - posted on 10/12/2011

Or a can of tuna.

Jodi - posted on 10/11/2011

***sigh*** I wish people would at least educate themselves if they are going to make the decision not to immunise and recommend that to others :\ There's probably more mercury in your kid's diapers and baby food than in a vaccine, and you use that stuff every day without it bothering you.

Sherri - posted on 10/11/2011

Thank you Kate was going to say the same thing!!

Kate CP - posted on 10/11/2011

Say it with me people!

THERE. IS. NO. MERCURY. IN. VACCINES.

The only vaccines that have thimerosol (which is 50% mercury by volume, btw) are the ones made for adults and can be used by children...like the flu shot. Even so, the amount of thimerosol in these vaccines is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Doubt that it has much influence on heavy metal concentrations in the body.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccine...

Carrie - posted on 10/11/2011

I do think that all the immunizations that children receive now can cause behavioral problems. A lot of the shots have mercury and other chemicals. They are now doing studies on the outbreak of autisum. Many autistic children were fine until they received 3 certain shots at around 15 months, My grandchildren now only receive 2 at a time they have to get shot once a month, but better then safe then sorry. I have never had any of my shots, and my mom said I was a easy going child. So you never know.

Kate CP - posted on 10/11/2011

Ah. Thank you for translating for me, Sherri. :)

In response to Janine's statement...uhm...I guess I don't have one.

Sherri - posted on 10/10/2011

She is saying her grandson's autism was caused 100% due to being vaccinated. I only know this since she wrote a message about it on my wall saying I was wrong by stating that vaccines are safe and don't cause autism.

Kate CP - posted on 10/10/2011

I'm sorry, Janine, but your posts made no sense to me. :/

Janine - posted on 10/10/2011

and yes, going with ur Gut is one thing women are noted for, and we usually are right, whatever that may be in this case shots vs no shots.......for me if my guts and my brain dont match, im in deep doo-doo!!!!!

Janine - posted on 10/10/2011

sry, up above i mis-stated myself. if fore-going taking an immunization and risking a childhood disease takes the risk away from a child like kaden was, then ashley would fore-go all immunizations for her kids. yes, u all r right, childhood diseases are dangerous, im the first to say, but ashley says living with kaden and kaden living inside his own skin is much worse, autism is a life-long journey.......for kaden

Janine - posted on 10/10/2011

Rian, ur top post reminds me of something ashley told me the other day.l now, remember, she has been the mother of an autistic child for 5 years now, has known sumthin was up w kaden for a long time, he wouldnt talk or hav eye contact--i didnt pay much attention til it NEVER stopped.......Ashley also has an 8 year old boy with ADHD, 2 totally different worlds, i cnt imagine being in the same household with these 2 boys. one is messy, the other is orderly. and if u make a mistake with the one that is orderly, he loses control, he cant deal with it. it is astouncing to watch it happen. like wow, where is kaden, oh, he is on the floor crying cuz he didnt get the truck he wanted and we r all ready to go outside and go to the pool. this type of stuff is what separates kaden from others. he lines his cars in front of my hallway door, exact. one day i moved one for some reason.....whammooooo, he lost it, one other day he sat and snapped and unsnapped a roll-up bag at least 50 times straight....i was goin nuts, i had to go in the other room. this is kaden's life every day and he doesnt understand it and we cant re-wire his brain. now he is the clencher, and ur gna tell me to go to hell.......Ashley has told me a number of times now in the last 1 or so, kaden is repeating pre-school, but he doesnt remember a thing, doesnt care, he loves to go, but travis, his dad, says, ashley, what if he never passes, what do we do???? he cant grasp anything that is going on in the classroom with the other kids and with the teacher. he has a hay day at school. he loves it. he is in his own lil world. ASHLEY SAYS that if fore-going an immunization prevented kaden from becoming autistic, she would fore-go all immunizations for all the kids.......taking a chance on a childhood disease, etc. is less damaging to a child than taking an immunization, that some part of it sparks autism in the child, and that child has to live with autism for the rest of his life. ashley and travis say there is no funding for kaden when he grows up, like he cant live independently, so either he stays living with his mom and dad or he goes into residential living as of right now. autism is not recognized, not funded, and the future Autism needs to b recognized, dealt with and attention needs to b paid to help the kids who have Autism.......right now this is not happening according to my daughter. she reads everything she can about how WE as a country, our govt are handling Autism.......this has been very interesting, i can see her concern for kaden when i see him getting stuck on something, and he cant get his mind off of it. i take him and hug him. he is sooo cute, beautiful blue eyes that sparkle, a big smile, and he says "Grandma, I love U!" and we hug each other, and he is highly functioning Autistic.......so...............as a parent, its ur call, if i had lil ones today, i would think about it........hmmmmmmmmm at first i thot ashley was just on another rampage, but no, and the doctors who made these findings about the shots, their licenses were pulled, they were paid off, and "hushed". i about crapped my pants when ashley said that. check it out.....

Sherelle - posted on 10/09/2011

Sorry Sherri - I was referring to Rachel's post.

Sherri - posted on 10/09/2011

Ummmm check again Sherelle. My kids have never missed a vaccine and have been up to date their entire lives.,

Sherelle - posted on 10/09/2011

@ Sherri, you can go with your gut on not vaccinating your children. Most people are going with scientific facts, history of diseases and sound knowledge. I like to think I'm going with my gut on the world living in a weather cycle when all the facts are pointing toward rising temperatures due to the carbon in the air...another point completely but I dare say my gut is more akin to having my head in the sand.

Kate CP - posted on 10/09/2011

"I can't make putting a disease into a child is going to keep it from getting said disease, make sense. Besides I know of more than one child that died or came close to dying from the vaccine. I am not saying that everybody else should not vaccinate. Just don't judge me for not. I wish that there was something out there that felt right to me. There just isn't. For those children who have compromised immune systems...I really don't know. I just have to go with my gut for MY child. I applaud those who feel safe and that the vaccines work for. They just are not for me, and very few people feel the need to let me go with my gut like they want me to let them go with theirs."

Has any one ever explained to you how the immune system works? The vaccines work by introducing a small, killed portion of the virus to the blood stream. This causes the body to respond by creating antibodies designed to destroy the protein types found in the virus. The body will continue to create these antibodies for a period of time (some people for the rest of their lives, others for 5 years, others for 10 years) and then you will need to be re-vaccinated for it.

If you were to catch the same virus naturally, became sick with it and recovered, the same thing would happen: your body would create antibodies designed to destroy the protein types found in the virus you were sick with; and over time your body would stop creating those antibodies and you would become vulnerable to the virus again.

The reason why getting the vaccine is preferable to getting the actual disease is:
a) you won't get sick from the actual disease
b) you are less likely to have severe complications (yes, it CAN happen, but it's relatively rare compared to those who actually get the disease)
c) you are less likely to die

For children who have a family history of vaccine reactions there are the options of an alternative vaccine schedule or not vaccinating. I have *ZERO* problem with people who don't vaccinate because of family history of vaccine reactions. That is just the safest thing for your kids if you have a history of reactions or allergies. Children who have compromised immune systems cannot be vaccinated either because, honestly, it could kill them. Their bodies are already fighting off a serious disease like leukemia, HIV or AIDS, or a myriad of other immune and auto-immune disorders.

The children who CANNOT be vaccinated must rely on what is called "herd immunity". This is the percentage of the population who IS vaccinated or immune from the disease making the acceptable host population for any given disease too small for the disease to thrive and spread.

If your child is NOT immunized then there are a few reasons why they have not gotten sick:
1. They ARE relying on the herd immunity in your community and it is keeping them at a relatively low risk of infection.
2. Many parents who don't vaccinate also home school and the risk of infection is still very low.
3. Sheer dumb luck.

Sure, vaccines may not be "right" for your family but they are still keeping your kids safe...even if you don't use them.
3.

Rachel - posted on 10/08/2011

Feel free we are in America...we are all free to choose. Have a nice day.

Sherri - posted on 10/08/2011

Sorry if you not choosing to vaccinate for ignorant reasons causes another child to die sorry but I can assure you I will be judging you more than you could even conceive.

Rachel - posted on 10/08/2011

I can't make putting a disease into a child is going to keep it from getting said disease, make sense. Besides I know of more than one child that died or came close to dying from the vaccine. I am not saying that everybody else should not vaccinate. Just don't judge me for not. I wish that there was something out there that felt right to me. There just isn't. For those children who have compromised immune systems...I really don't know. I just have to go with my gut for MY child. I applaud those who feel safe and that the vaccines work for. They just are not for me, and very few people feel the need to let me go with my gut like they want me to let them go with theirs.

Sherri - posted on 10/08/2011

Some people due to health issues or allergies can't ever be vaccinated. So what about them and babies to young??

Rachel - posted on 10/08/2011

Sherry, sorry I miss read you post. Why can't a child with a compromised immune system get vaccinated?

Rachel - posted on 10/08/2011

No, but vaccinations are supposed to keep children (with low immune systems) etc and the elderly safe as well. Right?

Sherri - posted on 10/08/2011

Except for the children to young to vaccinate Rachel or the children who have compromised immune systems and can't be vaccinated or the elderly.

But screw them right???

Rachel - posted on 10/08/2011

If your kid is vaccinated then if mine gets something yours should be safe...right? The only people who are at risk (if vaccinating our children is the miracle that it is said to be) is those who are not vaccinated. So everyone who vaccinates....breath easy. Just saying.....



Again I do NOT think that vaccinations cause behavioral problems.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/08/2011

lol Grace..yeah you may get jumped on around these parts! but not from me :-)

Anyway I agree it could have been something you were exposed to :-((

Grace - posted on 10/08/2011

Wow! I am almost scared to respond to this question... Anyway... ADHD is a chemical and brain thing isn't it? So it occurs when the brain is developing then. I have a child with ADHD and a genetic disease, that is a spontaneous mutation.BUT, I think that both are caused by the chemicals I was exposed to while pregnant. I was a janitor in a gas plant so we used some heavy cleaners....
I don't know if this is what happened to my guy but I always will wonder....

Sherelle - posted on 10/08/2011

@ Monique - sorry you misinterpreted my ramblings. As a teacher I see all styles of parenting - some children who are over parented (helicopter parents that won't let their kids tread in a puddle for fear of water on their skin!) or under parented children who do everything for themselves from far too early - and many parenting styles in between. Children who cop rubbish parents can be wonderful, self motivated and very unselfish children. I'm not blaming parenting on all behavioural issues - although it is certainly a very large factor. Behavioural issues can be caused by genetics and/or parenting or a combination of both. I read an article on bi-polar today and it was very clear that bi-polar disorder is commonly seen in families that pass it on through their genes. I'm sorry you thought I wrote nurture and thought I meant parenting alone. See my last post. Remember it takes a community to raise a child. A child is influenced by far more than their parents! But to stay on task of this topic - it is not the vaccines!

Sherelle - posted on 10/08/2011

Monique - nuturing is everything in your environment that is not genetic from conception. In my case nurturing my children are my husband, me, their grandparents, school teachers, peers (good and bad), extracurricular activities, food sources (Macdonalds included - eeek), etc etc etc. The fruit and veg we buy all have pesticides as I'm not particularly keen on sticking to organic, although I'm sure there are benefits - just too expensive and difficult. I don't want to blame anything on genetics alone, although many psychological disorders such as ADD, ADHD, Behavioural issues are developed through genetics then brought on by a child's environment. Some may stay dormant in the right environment - or some children may have the perfect parents, perfect food supply, wonderful teaching, caring ministers etc and still have behavioural issues. But to repeat Kate - it is most certainly not the vaccines.
To those that haven't got their children vaccinated - please stay away from my child's kindergarten. Vaccines are there for the community as a whole. You are being irresponsible and ignorant to think that diseases our miraculous scientists have found vaccines for will not come back if we're not proactive. Do we really need a return to the last century when many died from TB, Small pox etc.

Jodi - posted on 10/07/2011

OK ladies, let's give it a rest, shall we?

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

yeah why are you??



Edit to add: Thanks for clearing up that figure of speech..who knew that was a figure of speech -_-

and I like to defend when I feel the need. If I felt attacked my choice of words would have been much different then the tame ones I typed or I would not have responded at all, due to the fact that I cant articulate my anger and say things in subtlety mean ways like others can oh so well..but I am learning from the best I must say! :-D



and Kate that is your opinion of vaccines, you have facts to back up why they are the best and others have facts to back up why they are causing more harm then good.

And I am one of the ones in the middle..not sure of either side.

Kate CP - posted on 10/07/2011

You don't feel attacked and yet you feel the need to defend your argument that I wasn't even arguing against?



I also do not know how to write HTML code (and no, that wasn't shouted for you, that's how it's supposed to be written out) and so I have no way to bold items or italicize them when I wish to emphasize something. But yes, let's pick apart my post for using capitalized letters, because that's really useful and furthers the argument that no matter which way you slice it, vaccines DO NOT cause autism or any other behavioral disorder. Period.



And getting your knickers in a twist is a figure of speech. I really did not need to know that you aren't wearing underwear. Thanks for that mental image.



Edited to add: Cripes, why am I even responding to this nonsensical drivel? o.O

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

I like the word Edgy you used, but no that was not towards you :-)

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

Hard to get my "Knickers" in a twist when I have none on ;-p
You are the one who seems uptight with your yelling or "Net" yelling in all those caps.

Jodi - posted on 10/07/2011

Oh, ok, your responses just seemed a little.....edgy. That's all.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

I know Jodi and I dont feel attacked at all

Kate CP - posted on 10/07/2011

Whatever, Monique. If you want to get your knickers in a twist over it go for it.

Jodi - posted on 10/07/2011

I was the only person that was responding directly to something you posted Monique, but it certainly wasn't any attack on your statement :\

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

you were responding to ANYONE who spoke about DNA and/or heredity and I was one of them so yes you were responding to me.

Kate CP - posted on 10/07/2011

Nubian Queen: Did I say I was responding directly to you? No?

Several people mentioned heredity. That includes DNA.

But, I'm glad you heard me.
On the internet.
Through a keyboard.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

AND my statement was my own theory (as far fetched and silly as you may feel it is)...I was not saying it is a fact, so take a few chill pills and relax

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/07/2011

Goodeness KATE I CAN HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR HERE IN THE PACIFIC NORTH WEST. \



and Sherelle did not specify what she meant by nurturing, she just said more nurturing in her belief; that is why I asked.