are ceasareans really that bad?

Brittany - posted on 02/23/2010

absolutely not! i had a scheduled c section because my doctor was terrified (and scared the crap out of me) that my baby would get stuck because he was measuring about 10lbs on the ultrasound at least 3 different times. the c section went amazing and my recovery was very easy. the only problem i had was high blood pressure and i had to be put on medicine after the c section but that had nothing to do with the c section itself. but you should wait til at least your due date before you decide a c section because a lot can change in that amount of time

Jodi - posted on 02/23/2010

Ladies, thank you very much for your input. Because someone is continually flagging posts in this thread because they don't agree with them (you know who you are), I am now locking this thread.



PLEASE ladies, if you don't agree with a post this is NOT a reason to flag!!!



Thank you

Jodi Adams

WtCoM Moderator

Sarah - posted on 02/23/2010

I haven't personally had one but I know women that have and they didn't have any problems with it. My four week old daughter was still really high up when I went for my appointment on a monday and they were talking about inducing they never mention a c-section. By Saturday the day after her due date she was born. It could happen that she does make her way down unless your doctor thinks it's too narrow for the baby. Either way I wouldn't worry about the recovery time is a little bit longer but that didn't even bother the women I know that had it done. Good Luck!

Julie - posted on 02/23/2010

I had an emrg. section and it was not bad at all! sure it was slightly uncomfortable but very tolerable. I was walking 8 hours after I had it and was back to my routin on day 4 when I was sent home. Going for hour long walks after a week :) the surgery itself was a piece of cake for me. it was very comfortable and the nurses/doctors were very comforting. just keep positive and it'll go great :) good luck :)

Amy - posted on 02/23/2010

I think a c-section is probably better if you get to decide to have one. I had one after 20 hours of labor because my water broke early in the labor and after 2 hours of pushing was not making any progress. Because I had put stress on my uterus by pushing so much, the doctor ended up cutting too close to my uterine artery and I lost a lot of blood. I was severely anemic for the first 6 weeks after my son was born and because of that did not have the energy needed to get up and moving the way I should have. However, once I was up and moving I healed pretty quickly. I agree with another post, I also have some numbness around the scar although it is very localized and I don't really notice unless I actually touch the scar. I would have a c-section again if it were the safest choice for the baby, but I would want to schedule one rather than needing one after a long hard labor.

Megan - posted on 02/23/2010

Hi there,

Im a mother of three lovelies, all of whom were born by c-section.

My experiences were all fantastic!! I think they are by far the way to go, especially if you have no real choice.

My first baby didnt "drop" into my pelvis either and as the midwife thought he was going to be a big baby (confirmed by 38wk scan) it was decided that a c-section would be safer all round so thats what we did. Ben was born 2 days before his due day, weighed in at 9lb 11oz and measured 55cm long.

I had chosen to breastfeed and he latched on immediately and the staff at the hospital showed me how to feed him lying down (due to surgery) and we had no problems at all.

My next baby was also a section, We were going for a natural birth but the same thing happened so this time we had the baby just over a week early, and Elijah was 10lb 1oz, and 54cm long so thank god for that as I would of hated to have to push that chubby fella out!!!

My lucky last was also delivered a week early, a section again because of the two previous ones, this time she had dropped but they wont risk going into labour as the pressure on the internal scars can can be dangerous and may rupture. This time Tessa was 9lb 6oz and 54cm long, Just a tiddler!!!

Ceasearians are great, you will not have to go through that labour, so you can plan your day around the babies arrival, I had my hair all pretty for the photos and feel really good looking back at them!! LOL !!

You only have a short discomfort with the spinal anesthetic, wont kid you, that is very unpleasant but then its over quickly and you are still very much aware of what is going on and its SO quick!!! once they make the incision you will be kissing your baby in a matter of minutes. It takes longer to sew you back together than it does to get her out.

C-section babies are so cute too as they are not all squashed up, and can be calmer too because neither of you have had to go through all that trauma.

Make peace with the fact you maybe wont have a natural birth, you shouldnt be feeling ripped off, as trust me, you still bond with that kid just the same and its amazing to be still intact down there and you will be able to laugh and sneeze without wetting yourself!!!

The recovery is easy too, just do what you are told and make sure you keep the wound dry and clean and dont lift anything for a few weeks. Different people heal at different paces, but I was sitting up in bed 45 mins after the babies were born, walking to the loo in an hour and as much as the painrelief drip was lovely(ahh Morphine!!!)... it was not needed after a very short time,and the pandol was all I needed to stay onto of the pain, more like twinges than anything intense.

Feel free to contact me back if you have any questions, good luck.

Jessica - posted on 02/23/2010

My little girl was breech so I had a c-section. It wasn't that bad at all. I healed really fast so I had to keep reminding myself to take it easy the first few weeks. You can't even see my scar. As far as my little girl she came through like a champ. No time in the NICU and was a great nurser even though we had some time apart after the delivery.

Chantal - posted on 02/23/2010

I had my first son by emergency c-section, and my Dr. gave me the choice for the second - but highly recommending c-section. The first time I found it pretty easy, the second time even easier as I knew what to expect. Within 2 days I had a clean bill of health and was discharged.

withing 3 weeks I was walking and bending as easily as I was before the c-section. Tomorrow is my 6 week mark, I am now allowed to start excersising, I am feeling great.

You do have to be careful, no lift too heavy, using your best judgement... I wouldn't lift my 3 year old toddler, but I could lift a grocery bag if it wasn't packed to the brim.



It's a good excuse to take it easy, have more time with your new born, to relax, and get those extra zzz's after birth.



that is my experience anyhow, if you take it easy, make sure your incision stays clean and dry, you'll be up and going in no time at all.

Mel - posted on 02/23/2010

I had my daughter via C-Section. It was an emergency one, so i wasn't quite prepared. I had about 5 min to come to terms with the fact that i wasn't having my baby the way i wanted. But looking back on it, I'd do it all again if it meant the safe delivery of my child. :) The recovery time went by fast, and i had no infections. :)

The thought of c-sections is scary, but its really not as bad as people say it is. Like i said, If i had to do it again for the safe delivery of my child, i totally would. :) Good luck!

Deena - posted on 02/23/2010

I had both my kids by C-Section. My first was done becuse I had already been in the hospital for 2 days trying to have it induced and was at 1. The Dr. decided to do it because the fluid was low. The second was done because I was having a tubal ligation done at the same time. When my duaghter decided to come a couple of days earlier than scheduled, the Dr. wanted to try to deliver naturally but my water broke 18 hours earlier and I was at zero. I was out of the hospital within 48 hours and went to a birthday party a couple of hours after leaving the hospital. As far as the incision goes, if it is done well, you really can't tell. Mine is near the bikini area so I don't know why someone would want to hold their child that far down.

Beth - posted on 02/23/2010

i think everyone's experience is different. personally, i think they're terrible. but, mine was after 36hrs of labor, no sleep and an infection b/c my waters had broken at the beginning of labor. the section itself is not bad, but i had a very hard time with the recovery. it was 8 weeks before i felt halfway normal and 12 weeks before i really wasn't too bothered by it. what you don't hear very often from people is that your incision area will probably be numb for the rest of your life. my whole abdomen (from navel down to incision and all across to the sides) was hypersensitive to touch for the first 8 weeks. as in, i couldn't wear pants or wash the area for about 12 weeks. i'm now about 22weeks post and although it's not as bad as before, my whole stomach is still hypersensitive and numb feeling. that said, i've heard of women who are basically up and running about 2 weeks post surgery. it was not the case with me. and, if you have another child to look after and lift, you will definitely need someone there to do everything for you the first few weeks. i don't know how i would have done it otherwise.

Jennifer - posted on 02/23/2010

I've had 2 of them and I was up and about in one to two days with both of them. The key is to get up as soon as you can and to keep moving around.

Lorraine - posted on 02/23/2010

I would have to say it's different for every woman. I've had 5 children....4 natural births and 1 c-section. Let me tell you the ages of birth first. Baby 1 at 14, baby2 at 17, baby 3 at 20, baby 4 at 23 and baby 5 at 36yrs old. And yes the last one was a c-section because of my age. I did try but she wasn't coming the natural way. And for me it was the worst experience of my life. I wish I could have had her naturally but my body said no. I was sick for 3 weeks after delivery. I couldn't sit up in bed...could stand up straight and the pain is undescribable! At 36yrs old it took a toll on my body.

You'll have to experience a c-section for yourself and tell us how it turns out.

Michelle - posted on 02/23/2010

I have had 2 c-sections and no, they are not all that bad. I was up walking around within 12 hours of both of my children. Try to remember that you need to do what is best for the baby. Alot can happen in two weeks so don't hold your breath just yet. It is very common for the baby not to engage until you are in labour. But it is also common for the baby not to engage at all and in that case, a section is required. That is why they invented c-sections, because the baby would not comce out the other way. Modern medicine has come a long way and there are far fewer labour mortality's now than before because of the invention of a c-section. Remember, it's not how your daughter comes into this world that matters. It's whether she and you are safe and healthy.

Nicola - posted on 02/23/2010

I have had two c-sections and they were completely different from each other, first one was text book delivered twins within 10 mins, was driving two weeks later and had no problems at all, second time round took 2 and a half hrs to deliver and 8 weeks to recover! I think its the same as any other delivery as in each experience is unique, just gotta do whats best for you and baby and im sure your midwife and drs will guide you, most important is relax cos no amount of worrying is gonna help, hope all goes well and you enjoy your little one.

Julie - posted on 02/23/2010

Go to spinningbabies.com...it has a ton of tips to getting your babies rotated so they can engage in the pelvis better. I bet your baby isn't properly positioned and this is part of why baby hasn't engaged yet. Is she head down/face down? I'm a birth doula and have seen many cesareans due to babies being improperly positioned.



I have a cesarean w/my first due to improper positioning and a VBAC w/my 2nd baby. Cesarean's definitely are a risk...and have definite cons to mom's and babies. I'd really try the positioning tricks first before you "sign up" for a cesarean.

Crystal - posted on 02/23/2010

I think that you and your body need to talk....if a c-section is the right thing for you and your baby then dont be scared...if you think a second opinion is needed...then find a new Doc. Your heart and God will show you what is right.

Uschi - posted on 02/23/2010

I had a Caesarian section delivery and it was the fastest this doctor ever did. ( my pelvis bone was fused due to a arthritis condition )

One thing : the muscles get cut and you MUST make sure you never get fat on your belly after -wards . Get a second opinion first , if there is another possibility to get the baby to come down.

Marlene - posted on 02/23/2010

Tiffany was certtainly wrong when she said "you can't drive for 6 wks, either way". I was up and driving within 12 hrs of having most of my kids, which were born naturally, at home without any drugs.

But to answer the original post: While C/S are pretty safe, they have 5x greater maternal mortality rate than vaginal births, as well as slightly higher maternal & neonatal morbidity rates. Certain pelvic shapes lend themselves to babies who stay up high well into labor, then zoom down the birth canal at the last minute. Just ask my d-i-l who had 4 VBAC babies, after a C/S for the same problem. At 6 cm baby still hadn't engaged, and up high, so C/S was done for "CPD" all her subsequent babies were larger than the 1st, but she refused surgery and had them naturally. They all wait way high until she's pushing, then come down rapidly! She much prefers her homebirths to her surgical birth.

Amanda - posted on 02/23/2010

ive only had one c-section but i have 6 kids so ive not really had lots of experience but personally i hate them. i had to have an emergency c-section with my twins and hated every moment even now nearly four years later. i remember every second of it and i much prefer natural child birth my personal opinion is only my preferance thoughi have friends that have only had c-sections and dont know what its like to give birth naturally............hope all goes well for you and baby good luck xx

Amie - posted on 02/23/2010

Both my boys where born via ceacereans, one because he was breech and the other because I was not progressing. I was up and walking that night ready to go home the next day. I would have nothing bad to say about it, I would rather of done that rather than a long labour with no results. Much safer for baby!

Margi - posted on 02/23/2010

"Some babies do not "drop" into the birth canal until you are in active labor, so I'm not sure what it is your doctor is concerned about! I am not a doctor, but personally, I think he is rushing to the c-section conclusion". I took this quote from an earlier post, and I completely agree. I have had two children, the first C-section, and the second VBAC, vaginal birth after ceasarian. C-section took a long time to feel back to normal. No pain at the time, apart from feeling nausaus that they were cutting into me. Afterwards really really sucked, I couldnt change nappies, couldnt drive, couldnt hang out washing, couldnt get out of bed without pain around my scar. It really hurts. When it came time to have my second baby i was in Australia, and they didnt want me to even try labour, because of the previous c-section, straight to the c-section again. I refused, so then I had to be continuisly monitored during labour, which really sucked, as i needed to move to feel comforatable. Labour really hurts and was very very very intense for me, but I so prefer it over the horrible recovery time of a ceasarean. It was a beautiful moment for me to hold my second son in my arms, knowing i had given birth to him myself. That moment didnt happen with my first born via ceasarean. I wish you well either way, please dont feel pressured by my experiances, or anyone elses. Make a decision based on whats best for you and your baby. :)

Jennifer - posted on 02/23/2010

I have had 2 c-sections. My daughter was a emergency c-section and my son was a routine c-sections. I had no problems with any of the surgeries. I wouls not have changed a think either. I labored with my daughter and we could see her hair and she was stuck. So i had lots of bledding from all of the pushing. But withmy son i was up the that night walking around. It was find. Good Luck to you!!

Carole - posted on 02/23/2010

I really like the "walk like a turtle" description. Wo-man, that's da truth! :-)

Emily - posted on 02/23/2010

Jess,

Your Dr. is totally pulling a power play here. There is no "time" when a baby has to "drop". Usually, with a first time mom, the baby does engage (which is the term used for her head to be down, in the pelvis, and pressing on the cervix) within the last couple weeks, and usually, because the muscles of a 1st-timer are tight, and they hold the baby there. But even then, there is no set time, and she might not engage till you're in active labor. It's rare for moms having their 2nd or subsequent baby to have him engage and stay there. There is absolutely no risk to your baby for you to go into labor with the baby unengaged, and very likely the pressure from your uterus as it contracts will push your baby to engage just fine. You may have a slightly longer labor if it takes a bit for engagement, but that is much preferable to a c-section! Please don't let your Dr. try to push an unnecessary MAJOR abdominal surgery on you, just for his/her own convenience. There is a list of protocols for when a section is necessary, and not being engaged is NOT on that list.

Good luck to you!!

Tahira - posted on 02/23/2010

It's the BEST way to have a baby if you ask me! I would do it again! Besides it is performed only in emergency situations and you really don't have a choice. You have to do what is safer for your baby.

Carole - posted on 02/23/2010

I have four children, ages 29, 26, 21 and 4. No, that's not a typo. My last baby arrived shortly before my 45th birthday. Since she 10 lb. 6 oz., it was decided between my spouse and doctor to do a c-section (I was not included in this conversation, which is another story! :-). My first child (9 lbs.) was born in a hospital and was a so-so labor/delivery. My next two (9.3 and 9.6) were born via midwife in a free-standing out-of-hospital birthing center and ideal to my birth plan. My other kids were there; no cutting, drugs...it was done my way and I was home shortly thereafter. It wasn't easy, obviously, but that's why I chose to attend birthing classes to prep mothers-to-be. The c-section was so incredibly difficult to recover from... But it doesn't really matter HOW she was born; she is out safe and sound. After having the two via midwife, I was up and about and taking a shower within mere minutes of the births. I could barely stand halfway up a week after our daughter's birth. This is from my experience. If there were any way possible to deliver vaginally - with or without drugs, epidurals or however YOU and YOUR husband choose to deliver this child - do so. A c-section was an incredibly long and difficult recovery from major surgery. Not to mention a bad time to discover I was allergic to latex! Please know that this is how my experience was, and may not be the same for another. We're each unique. Good luck, and may you have a happy and safe delivery no matter how you birth your baby. If your birth is not ideal or does not go to plan, stay away from any guilt (your own or others). The birth of your baby is not what's going to make you a good mom! The main thing is that he/she arrives safely.

Tahira - posted on 02/23/2010

It's the BEST way to have a baby if you ask me! I would do it again! Besides it is performed only in emergency situations and you really don't have a choice. You have to do what is safer for your baby.

Debbie - posted on 02/23/2010

I'm curious as to whether this is your first baby or not. It's very common that first babies may not settle well into the pelvis until after labor begins. However, I have known that to happen with baby number 7 as well. I think it's a little premature to schedule a c-section. Your baby will tell you when she is ready to be born! Trust birth! The fact that you are asking this question on this type of forum indicates to me that you are not feeling 100% sure of this recommendation! Ask your baby what she thinks!

Julian - posted on 02/23/2010

Hey, Im a mom of 2 and a registered nurse. I have experienced labour and delivery both cesarean and vaginally (using the drip, the vacuum, and episiotomy). As much as I didnt think I wanted a cesarean the first time, it wasnt that bad - especially if you have to have it like I did. It was nice to not have labour at all, and there wasnt the issue of it being painful to pee or eventually have sex again.

Have help and extra pillows in the house to prop you up in bed - until you can get up using your abs again.

Theresa - posted on 02/23/2010

I had a c-section it was not that bad at all. The worst part of the whole thing is getting a shot in my back but I'm afraid of needles the rest was a piece of cake.

Brittany - posted on 02/23/2010

I had the same concerns as you did, but honestly after i was in labor for 48 hours my only result was to have a cesarean and it wasnt bad at all. I didn't feel anything, and the aftermath wasnt so bad, I was in pain dont get me wrong but i was up walking slowly the next day..you just have to take it easy. But its not as bad as everyone makes it seem, and my scar is very small.

Brittany - posted on 02/23/2010

I had the same concerns as you did, but honestly after i was in labor for 48 hours my only result was to have a cesarean and it wasnt bad at all. I didn't feel anything, and the aftermath wasnt so bad, I was in pain dont get me wrong but i was up walking slowly the next day..you just have to take it easy. But its not as bad as everyone makes it seem, and my scar is very small.

Brittany - posted on 02/23/2010

I had the same concerns as you did, but honestly after i was in labor for 48 hours my only result was to have a cesarean and it wasnt bad at all. I didn't feel anything, and the aftermath wasnt so bad, I was in pain dont get me wrong but i was up walking slowly the next day..you just have to take it easy. But its not as bad as everyone makes it seem, and my scar is very small.

Lisa - posted on 02/23/2010

I had a c-section and it was great i had the same problem my little girl just was not dropping the doctor says my pelvis was mishapen. It was a great experience not as much bleeding afterward and I was up and around the next day word to the wise the more walking that you do the better.

Erin - posted on 02/23/2010

i had an emergency c-section and the only two complaints i have with it are that i can no longer feel any thing within a three inch radius of my scar and it makes it harder to lose tummy weight. the actual procedure was very easy and low stress. plus no pushing, ripping or sweating! just make sure youre not allergic to morphine...

Karen - posted on 02/23/2010

Congrads and best of luck.

I had 2 c sections on both of my kids for different reasons and the only way i got through it was the support of the staff and my husband. I was scared out of my wits as you fear the unexpected and i asked the staff to talk me through what was happening to calm me down and they did. It helped knowing what they were doing as i didnt feel in the dark about what was going on or about to happen. If you explain this to the doctor and the staff on the day they would be most obliging to put you at ease. Actually my husband said that i cracked jokes through out the whole thing but i cant remember at all. Good drugs that day, legal medical drugs. lol.

We have all heard the horror stories when we were pregnant and we all dread the day it happens to us but its your day too and explain what you want and why you want it and you will see that its not as bad as its made out to be.

Best of luck for you and your family.

Vivian - posted on 02/23/2010

I had no problem with milk or bonding. I thank God for c-sections, one of my 5 children weighed 11 lbs at birth. I would not want to have delivered him vaginally.

Anne - posted on 02/23/2010

hi Jess, im and old mum i had an emergency c section 23 years ago and then went on to have 2 more normal pregnancies. it takes a little while longer to get over but after a few weeks you will be just the same and the cut is so low that your fluff covers it any way, you will be fine so please dont worry and just enjoy your baby

Heather - posted on 02/23/2010

I guess in the grand scheme of things probably not but its still major surgery. If this is your first child, the baby could drop anytime. I would try not to get too discouraged. I would try to walk as much as you can. If its cold you could go to the mall or something. Not sure where you live but Teavana (a tea shop at some malls) has an induction tea that worked for me. Maybe it was coincidental. Also if you have a workout ball you can sit on it and rotate your hips in a circle or kneel down and put your arms on the ball and just lay that way for a while or you can move your hips in circles. That was suggested by my doula to get that baby to come down. Hope this helps! Good luck!

Dawn - posted on 02/23/2010

No, definitely not! C-sections have positive and negative aspects, just like vaginal deliveries. However, one of the most disappointing things about caesareans is that you don't get the skin to skin contact immediately with your baby. It took me an hour to get stitched up and before I could hold my baby for an extended length of time. But his father spent the first hour with him, which was also very special. The only other issues is that your milk may take longer to come down as the hormone that releases your milk is not triggered when you have surgery. And your out of action for 6 weeks, but after you mend your back to normal in the lower region where vaginal births can long lasting effects to your pelvic floor - if you know what I mean! Good Luck

Carrie - posted on 02/23/2010

I had one with my son, and no the c-section part isn't bad more scary then anything but becareful after, mine opened and I had a hole for months and had to go 3 times a week to wound care with this machine that sucks it closed I forget what they called it but that part sucked! Everyone is different, if you take care of your self and listen to what they say you will be fine! Some say C-sections are easier! Good luck~ Best wishes~

Vivian - posted on 02/23/2010

They're not that bad. I've had all 5 of my children delivered by caesarean. They all were healthy and have the added benefit of nice round heads. No cone-heads!

Stacy - posted on 02/23/2010

i believe no they are not but when you first get out of bed after 24 hours of being in bed yes you are going to be sore but i have had both of my children c section and couldnt imagine going thru labor they said i could have been pregant a year and he never would have some. my advise was once i was allowed out of bed i walk and walked to get use to it. and they do not let you keep the baby if you will be by yourself the night of the csection cause yuou can not get out of bed to get them so if someone does not spend the night the baby goes to the nursey which they tell you that you need the rest

Rebecca - posted on 02/23/2010

I had an emergency c section when my daughter was born....i was overdue by almost 2 weeks and was not fully dialiating...so when they broke my water and the contractions started coming i was rated a 50/50 chance to deliver normal or have a c section. after almost 24 hours of labor it was a c section..also he thought i was going to have a 9lb baby and she was only 7lbs 8 oz. ...so whatever your relationship is with your dr. please ask all and any questions....

Sue - posted on 02/23/2010

I have had to have 2 of them, they really aren't that bad, your on light duty for at least 2 weeks. and your really sore. the only ting that sucks is they cut they stomach muscles and they are really hard to get the flat tummy back.

Jeanene - posted on 02/23/2010

Everyone's body and birth situation is going to be different. I personally had a bad experience with mine, but it was an emergency c-section. I was told by the dr. that a scheduled surgery isn't as hard on you and the baby. Just stay positive! I'm sure you'll be fine. Good luck!

Deb - posted on 02/23/2010

I've had 2 myself, first one emergency and the second after 16 hours of hard labor and no progression (Dr found that my pelvis wouldn't spread far enough - previous Dr negelected that in my medical file). I was up and about my the next day. Not alot of pain or trouble walking. Just keep options open and ask lots of questions. My Doctor always said that he would rather have me ask the same question 50 times to make sure that I totally understood and felt comfortable with what was happening. Discuss it with your partner and have a "game" plan to start from.

As for picking things up - I was very fortunate to have friends and family come and visit me so I didn't have to lift anything but the baby. Most importantly though is to listen to your body - no one knows it better than you.

Claire - posted on 02/23/2010

I've had two c-sections (one was planned but ended up being an emergency and the other was planned). My first was with twins which were both breach. I had planned to have a c-section to deliver them at 2 n half weeks early, but 9 days before that, i went into labour. within 5 minutes of being on the table, both of my twins were born - within a minute of each other. it took them a further 45mins to remove placenta and clean me and stitch me. I had internal stitches so all you could see was the actual incision itself. I was up and walking the next morning (but had to stay in hospital for a week to make sure the twins were well enough to go home with being 4 weeks prem).

The second time with my son I didn't go into labour, but again from being on the table to my soon being born was only 4 minutes. Again it took 45minutes to remove the placenta and stitch me up with invisible stitches. This time i was in 48 hours, but it took me until the morning that i was discharged to get up and moving.

I found the second 1 harder to recover from but i believe this is due to arthritis in my back along with a slipped disc there too. I was also steralised on my second c-section so this may have slowed down my recover too.

Do what is best for you and your baby. Only you know what that is. Best of luck too you.

Erin - posted on 02/23/2010

oh and misti love yes we are made to give birth but before ceasers lots of babies died at birth sometimes u just dont have a choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And your wrong about them not letting u go natural in fact every midwife i have spoken to encourages u to try for the natural after the ceaser dont make her fret she asked what they were like not ur opinion on natural vs ceaser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oohh u make me mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!