crying it out vs. cosleeping

Mariella - posted on 10/18/2009

Everyone has their opinions and morals. However, when it comes to science, you can't deny it. 57% of all SIDS cases are caused by CO-SLEEPING. Don't do it!!! Also, other than the abandonment issue that comes along with letting them cry it out, it's been found that kids who are left to cry it out are 10 TIMES more likely to develop ADHD. My son is 5 1/2 months and still wakes up twice a night. I would rather wake up everynight for a few more months than have to live with a child with ADHD. They will eventually sleep. Wait it out...it'll be worth it in the end.

~Jennifer - posted on 10/18/2009

Thank you, Ladies, for your responses to this thread.

Robyn - posted on 10/18/2009

Quoting Aniesha:

Co-sleeping. I'd never let my baby just cry it out. I had him for a reason, & that's because I love him, so I couldn't just turn him away when he needs me. He'll eventually find his way to his own bed, & he's not going to be a baby forever, so I'll enjoy it while I can!

(he doesn't always sleep with me btw, he actually wants to go to bed in his cot, but sometimes when he's not well or especially clingy he just wants to be close. I don't blame him, sometimes I just need a cuddle when I feel bad too)

I love to cuddle my boy when he is sick too and you want to be able to make them feel comfortable. If coming to lay in mummy and daddy's bed for a while so be it!

Robyn - posted on 10/18/2009

Quoting Ruth:

there will never be a sleeping method that everyone agrees with we are all individuals and having said that I dont feel it is right for people to say that co sleeping or the cry it out method of sleeping are wrong . Each to there own i use the ferber Method for my 5 moth old son who is still yet to sleep a entire night through he is much easier to settle and is a more plesant baby now and i do not feel mean or cold hearted as some of you have said, my son is not unloved or uncared for, he is a happy healthy thriving baby who is most likley that way because i have finally been able to get some much needed sleep before doing something i would live to regret.... I love my son and it does not make me feel sad to hear him cry infact most nights he just makes yelling noises for a few miniutes and puts himself to slep, I am happy for him to do that .

For all you co sleepers out there well done if you have found something that works for you thats great enjoy your sleep and the closeness with your baby but dont judge us cry it outers for needing a break and some time on our own If i give my son my bed i will have nowhere to go to regain my sanity.

I agree Ruth, I'm not saying that I'm against co-sleeping because sometimes you do need to resort to certain things that makes it comfortable for you and your baby. Now that my son is 3 yrs, I have found what we have put in place for his sleeping and other developments has taught him a form of routine especially at the end of the day when you are absolutely exhausted!

User - posted on 10/18/2009

there will never be a sleeping method that everyone agrees with we are all individuals and having said that I dont feel it is right for people to say that co sleeping or the cry it out method of sleeping are wrong . Each to there own i use the ferber Method for my 5 moth old son who is still yet to sleep a entire night through he is much easier to settle and is a more plesant baby now and i do not feel mean or cold hearted as some of you have said, my son is not unloved or uncared for, he is a happy healthy thriving baby who is most likley that way because i have finally been able to get some much needed sleep before doing something i would live to regret.... I love my son and it does not make me feel sad to hear him cry infact most nights he just makes yelling noises for a few miniutes and puts himself to slep, I am happy for him to do that .



For all you co sleepers out there well done if you have found something that works for you thats great enjoy your sleep and the closeness with your baby but dont judge us cry it outers for needing a break and some time on our own If i give my son my bed i will have nowhere to go to regain my sanity.

Cathy - posted on 10/18/2009

what is ferberized some please help me understand

Aniesha - posted on 10/18/2009

Co-sleeping. I'd never let my baby just cry it out. I had him for a reason, & that's because I love him, so I couldn't just turn him away when he needs me. He'll eventually find his way to his own bed, & he's not going to be a baby forever, so I'll enjoy it while I can!



(he doesn't always sleep with me btw, he actually wants to go to bed in his cot, but sometimes when he's not well or especially clingy he just wants to be close. I don't blame him, sometimes I just need a cuddle when I feel bad too)

Aniesha - posted on 10/18/2009

Co-sleeping. I'd never let my baby just cry it out. I had him for a reason, & that's because I love him, so I couldn't just turn him away when he needs me. He'll eventually find his way to his own bed, & he's not going to be a baby forever, so I'll enjoy it while I can!



And besides, how else is a baby supposed to let you know what they want?! They can't wake up & say "Mummy, I had a bad dream" or "My tummy's sore & I need a cuddle".



(he doesn't always sleep with me btw, he actually wants to go to bed in his cot, but when he's not well or especially clingy he just wants to be close. I don't blame him, sometimes I just need a cuddle when I feel bad too)

Robyn - posted on 10/18/2009

Quoting Emily:

My first child slept with me for the first 4 months & eventually ended up just crying it out when the time came to put her in her own bed. . Lets be honest no one want a 4 year old kicking them in the side all night. I plan on letting my son cry it out much earlier.

We did have our son with us just like you did for a short while, though my husband was a shift worker at the time and very soon our son was kicked out! He started to sleep through the night at around 4 months.  Every child is different, he now loves to go to bed and read 3 stories before sleep time, then he gets  to do what he wants in his room without any problems (though it could be 11pm before he goes to sleep)! As long as he is in his room having quiet time. We have a gate on his doorway which we found quite effective to start with to stop the escaping process. We don't latch it anymore and he knows that he will be in trouble if he comes out! That makes us sound like terrible parents but it worked.

Robyn - posted on 10/18/2009

I also had my son with us at one stage in a bassinette for a little while but unfortunately my husband was a shift worker, then after about 3 weeks our son moved out into his own room. We try not to make it a habit for our son to sleep with us, though when he is sick tht's a different story! He has his own "special bed" made up on his cot mattress on the floor next to us. He thinks we're camping out!

Stephanie - posted on 10/17/2009

Quoting Jamie:

crying it out vs. cosleeping

which do you do?

We cosleep.  I dont see the benifit of not tending to my childs needs. I think that the need for comfort is a valid need. Cosleeping, when done in a thoughtful and responsible way, has so many advantages! Reduction of SIDS concerns and facilitation of breast feeding to name a few. Birth is such a dramatic change for a baby i spent the first three months trying to make my sons environment as womb-like as possible in order to make the transition as easy as possible on him. Hes a happy independent little man. It doesnt bother me to devote as much time as needed to soothe him when hes having a hard time. This is what my instincts tell me to do. In the end I trust myself as Henry's mother.

Delia - posted on 10/17/2009

I have always thought it was the weirdest thing for people to have an entire separate room for their babies when they are tiny. It is very unnatural for babies of any species to sleep alone without the protection of their mothers. Even scorpions carry their babies around on their backs.Of course all the mammals stay with their babies. Babies are comforted by warmth and living touch.

The separate thing may be, like many phenomena of American culture, a status symbol sign, that if you are wealthy enough to be able to have a whole separate room for the baby instead of doubling up together in one room, well, then you have arrived and are pooping in tall cotton. Balderdash. I shared a room with my sister growing up, and my mother let us come into her bed when we were small too. We even sleep in the same bed as adults when I go to visit her and stay over. We giggle and joke and have a good time. For the record, never has been sexual, people need to love without getting stuck in the sex thing.

Iysha - posted on 10/17/2009

I don't do either. My baby is 3 months old and has been in a bassinet or crib since she was in the hospital. She was never made to cry it out...when she needed me, she would cry, but for a short time since I went to her in her crib or bassinet when she did. I believe babies, especially younger babies need to know that they can count on you. It's the whole trust vs. mistrust stage in Erick Erickson's stages of development. I let her sleep alone, but near. Her bassinet was at my bedside and now her crib is about 6 feet away. Now, I wake up to her calling out for me so she doesn't even have the need to cry. She sleeps throught the night from 9-5, the same as us, and rarely cries which makes me feel better since I used to get all worked up when she cried.

Sandi - posted on 10/17/2009

A little bit of both. Try to determine what is causing the sleep difficulties and be flexible. Long term crying is never goo nor is three in bed plus cats and dogs! Is this your first child? sandi

Stephanie - posted on 10/17/2009

i never had a problem with either one of these but if i had to choose i would say let them cry it out otherwise you have a child that thinks mom and dad should give into them when ever they cry

Emily - posted on 10/17/2009

My first child slept with me for the first 4 months & eventually ended up just crying it out when the time came to put her in her own bed. . Lets be honest no one want a 4 year old kicking them in the side all night. I plan on letting my son cry it out much earlier.

Robyn - posted on 10/17/2009

My husband and I used the crying it out method but always made sure we were still in the room by sitting on a chair or by the bedroom door for our son's reassurance. My son is 3 yrs now and we have found it the most effective way (for us), especially when it came to transferring from cot to bed. I am expecting again so this will be the test to see what will happen when the new baby comes home. I believe to try and do what you feel is right for you and your baby.

Lauren - posted on 10/17/2009

Tara Funk couldn't have said it any better. The only thing I have to add is that after standing over my screaming newborn son for 5 hours while he was in an incubator, unable to comfort him, I NEVER want to go through that again. It's the worst thing to hear your child scream and be unable to comfort him/her. It breaks your heart and you feel helpless. Don't let your child cry continuously for you. You're able to comfort and console. You don't want to know what it's like to be utterly helpless.

Lauren - posted on 10/17/2009

Tara Funk couldn't have said it any better. The only thing I have to add is that after standing over my screaming newborn son for 5 hours while he was in an incubator, unable to comfort him, I NEVER want to go through that again. It's the worst thing to hear your child scream and be unable to comfort him/her. It breaks your heart and you feel helpless. Don't let your child cry continuously for you. You're able to comfort and console. You don't want to know what it's like to be utterly helpless.

Rochelle - posted on 10/17/2009

Even though many may tell me that what I'm doing is wrong, I sleep with my child in bed because she cannot sleep without me nursing her. Whenever I put her down she wakes up after a minute and it drives me insane. But I would like for her to learn to fall asleep on her own. Does anyone else have this situation?

Sylvie - posted on 10/17/2009

I coslept and my children are wonderfull teenagers and early adult now!

I think, as long as it does not affect the familly and or couple's life theremore, cosleeping is the best way to create an everlasting bonding.

Of course there are bounderies not to be crossed and age appropriate behaviors to be respected.

Jessica - posted on 10/17/2009

Although it is much easier to have my son sleep with us rather than listen to him cry, I still like to have the alone time with my husband. If I have our son in our bed all the time, we don't have that. Parents need to remember that they are still in a relationship with their spouse and it is not all the about the kids all the time.

Maya - posted on 10/17/2009

Hi,

I kept my son in a co-sleeper and even let him sleep in the bed with us after nursing at night until he was almost 6 months old. Then when we moved him to the crib, it wasn't traumatic at all. He seemed to prefer it. He sprawled out, with arms stretched wide (wider than the co-sleeper would allow- he's a big boy), and slept soundly. Very little fussing. So, we let him "fuss it out", but it was more talking than crying. And lasted about 10 mins... It's been a very smoothe transition. And he's very secure and happy. I would highly recommend keeping your child at your side while he's so little. It goes against the laws of nature to put him in another room... they need their moms.

Dora - posted on 10/17/2009

Co-Sleep was our choice. Our son has slept with us from birth to now 15 months. The CIO methos was too difficult. Our doctor advised to put him in his room and let him cry and don't go in until morning. We had such a close bond with breastfeeding him, and I couldn't do it. Either could my husband; who would simply pick our son up and sway him to sleep within ten minutes when baby was tired Then lay him down in his bed. Our son has a crib and a futon bed in his room. Now that he's older we just put him in his bed when he falls asleep at night. Sometime in the middle of the night he wakes up and bolts in climbing into our bed, snuggles back to sleep in between us. My husband get's up very early for work, so it's FUN to wake up with my 'little man' next to me. Sometimes, when I want a "extra good night sleep" I'll go sleep in the babies futon bed (full size bed) and my husband sleeps with the baby or visa versa.

We three have a wonderful intimate bond. These are the most precious times. And I will cherish the time we have together rather than broken up in seperate rooms. He's only going to be a baby once.

Jamie - posted on 10/17/2009

Funny I post this and get the paper the health department sends out LOL. They send one on safe sleep here is it what it says are unsafe sleeping environments:

-Sleeping inadult beds

-sleeping on a couch, pillow or any other soft surface

-sleeping WITH adults such as parents, grandparents, or babysitters

-Sleeping in bed with other children

-sleeping in bed where a pet sleeps

-sleeping with individuals under the influence of drugs or alcohol.



To top it off the title if from belly to crib. Also emphasis "I need my own space"



It's just some points I do at times end up sleeping with one or both of my children. Though I do feel better when they are in their own beds. I sleep better, my husband sleeps better, and I feel they do to. To me it's just a matter of getting them to do it.

Melanie - posted on 10/17/2009

I wasn't going to post again because I've already stated my feelings on this a few times but I've been following the thread and I think it's really important to bring up something that no one has mentioned. Contrary to what some people on here have said, (my favorite was "after all, grown men don't need to be rocked to sleep on their wedding night") your baby's and child's sleep disorder can and will stay with them for the rest of their lives! Just as a side note, if your husband was sleeping on your wedding night, with or without your MIL's help, maybe you're really co-sleeping to avoid dealing with a bigger issue! Lol!



My point is, there is a billion dollar pharmaceutical industry built on adult sleep disorders and millions of people are addicted to drugs like Ambien and literally can't fall asleep without them. One of the posters on here even talked about that being the reason she is so adamant about her child's sleep. Her husband suffers from bad insomnia and they don't want that for their child. Sleep specialists will tell you that the majority of adult sleep disorders began in childhood. You have the ability right now to set how your children will sleep for the rest of their lives. If your child didn't want to eat anything but candy for every meal you wouldn't let her do it even if she screamed and cried and this is equally as important!



Also, let's not forget that we're not talking about a newborn/infant, the post was about a 2 year olds sleep problems. No one I know recommends not responding immediately to a baby under 4 mos of age and sometimes 6 mos depending on the baby. This idea that infants are being left to cry alone is ridiculous and untrue.



Jamie just to let you know, I am one of 6 children and we were all born in a span of 8 years. That means at any given time my mother had 2, 3 and even 4 babies/toddlers to take care of at once. She did this by keeping us on a very tight schedule, including 2 naps a day until 18 mos, then one nap until 4 or 5 (depending on the child) and making sure we were in bed asleep every night by 7pm (until I was 10 years old!). Not only do none of us feel in any way love deprived, we are all extremely close and we each think we're our mother's favorite :-), but we all sleep like babies to this day. My older sister and I both follow very similar sleep tactics. When my sister's first was having so much trouble sleeping she got hooked on "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" and we've followed it like a bible with all the babies born since. Interestingly, it's very similar to what my mother did instinctively when we were babies before everyone had a book! :-)



Hope this helps since you were asking about multiples.

Susie - posted on 10/17/2009

I am fascinated. I just saw on the news the other day they were saying that sleeping with your child increases the risk of sids. I have a feeling it depends on which study you are looking at. I made my kids stay in their own beds. I wished I hadn't.

Laura - posted on 10/17/2009

Quoting Renee:

Co-sleeping.......check out www.askdrsears.com and www.attachmentparenting.org

I second that! By the way Co-sleeping means that two or more people share a room for sleeping. It is different from Bed-sharing. Co-sleeping can mean parents & child as well as siblings. So using a crib or bassinet in your room is called Co-Sleeping.

Rachael - posted on 10/17/2009

both of my babies co-slept with us until about 6 months old then they slept in a bassinet in our room until about a 10 months or so. Now, they happily sleep in their own rooms (at 18 months and 3.5 yrs.) 12 hours straight through the night. We never had a problem with this method and they were easy to transition to their cribs

Brianne - posted on 10/17/2009

I'm somewhere in the middle. Crying it out never worked with my daughter and co-sleeping doesn't work for me. We always rocked Sienna to sleep because that's what worked, now that she is 2 she falls asleep on the couch most of the time and then we move her to her bed. Co-sleeping may have a reduced instance of SIDS but sharing a bed with a baby has its own set of dangers, especially if either parent is a heavy sleeper.

Sarah - posted on 10/17/2009

Is there an either or Here?

We never did the crying out, but we never did systematic co-sleeping either, but have coslept when circumstances/need has been there.

I do, however, become increasingly convinced that crying out is a bad method, and that co-sleeping as a principle is without doubt the best thing for a baby/toddler -- although we have preferred to have our daughter mostly in her own bed/room.

Alise - posted on 10/17/2009

Well if you are talking about letting the baby cry or checking to c if he or she really has a problem, u always check to c. You could try things that makes you baby comfortable and maybe he or she will sleep better. Music worked for two of my three sons. I would turn it on at a decent hour on low and rock him to sleep. He was fed well and dry so once he dozed off, he was out for hours at a time. I kept the music on low throughout the night. Turned it off after he wolk for the morning.

Stephanie - posted on 10/17/2009

Quoting megan:

Im sorry. I debated on whether or not to reply to the post about putting a lock on your door at the advice of a doctor. i know the mother said that she couldnt go through with it but that is probably the most cruel piece of advice i have ever heard. how will your child ever learn to trust anyone if the people in her life whom she should trust most LOCK her out of their sight and ignore her needs!!!??? Thats just awful. How scary for that child

It is HORRIFYING that a health care provider would advise this! No wonder there are so many emotionally stunted adults walking around. I have had so much unsolicited advise about co-sleeping and holding my baby too much!  I will defend proactivly catering to my childs needs untill im out of breath!

Katherine (Kassie) - posted on 10/17/2009

I co-sleep! I love it! My son is 4 1/2 now and sleeps great and has since he was 3 (in his own bed). My daughter is 1 1/2 and she sleeps part of the night in her bed and the other part with us, which is what my son use to do too! I am a working mom and I feel those hours of snuggling are my time. We alos have special nights when the kids sleep in bed with us.

Rebecca - posted on 10/17/2009

You will have received a lot of advice for and against - all good, and all contradictory (as is all advice when it comes to babies!!). I know you were looking for an answer, but the answer is to do what you want. There are positives to both and negatives to both. Eg sleep training (controlled crying) teaches babies to put themselves to sleep, setting up excellent sleep habits that will give them quality sleep and therefore increase their ability to learn. On the other hand if used incorrectly can make them feel less secure with their parents. Co sleeping is a lovely bonding experience, but you have to watch out you don't smother them and it interferes with your sex life and sleep.

Think ahead a few months - what method do you want to be doing? Because if you do not want to be co sleeping then don't start that method. It has to work for you because well rested, happy parents are better parents.



Have fun with your little one, good luck. : )



PS - If you go with sleep training, I recommend making Saturday and Sunday mornings sleep in time with them - it's magical.

Sara - posted on 10/17/2009

Hot topic here! I wish I could co-sleep with my 10 month old but he won't sleep if we're in the same bed anymore. If it's during the day I won't let him cry - I know from experience that he'll go to sleep without fuss if he wants to. At night I've been very fortunate he's known from a young age that night is night and he rarely, if ever, makes a fuss going to bed. However often he'll wake during the night and that's been tricky as I found that getting him up to feed/comfort him did nothing and just made him more upset. So now I do the "controlled comforting" of NOT picking him up but going in there to pat/reassure him 3, 5, 10, 15 then 20 minutes until he's asleep. Fortunately he generally falls back asleep within 20 minutes.



All babies are different and the mother needs to trust their instincts and be comfortable with what they're doing.

Sara - posted on 10/17/2009

Hot topic here! I wish I could co-sleep with my 10 month old but he won't sleep if we're in the same bed anymore. If it's during the day I won't let him cry - I know from experience that he'll go to sleep without fuss if he wants to. At night I've been very fortunate he's known from a young age that night is night and he rarely, if ever, makes a fuss going to bed. However often he'll wake during the night and that's been tricky as I found that getting him up to feed/comfort him did nothing and just made him more upset. So now I do the "controlled comforting" of NOT picking him up but going in there to pat/reassure him 3, 5, 10, 15 then 20 minutes until he's asleep. Fortunately he generally falls back asleep within 20 minutes.



All babies are different and the mother needs to trust their instincts and be comfortable with what they're doing.

Collette - posted on 10/17/2009

I don't believe that these two extremes are the only options. I do believe it is a personal choice that only you can make. You should do what feels right for you. I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable having either of my babies in bed with me. I was too worried that I would roll over in the night and suffocate them. I did have my little ones in the same room tho, until about 6 months, maybe longer. I'm pregnant again with my 3rd and again won't have the baby in bed with me but will have the baby in my room. We put ours down in their crib awake, if they cried, we picked them up and soothed them, then when they had stopped crying, put them back down again. My eldest is now 5, and my youngest nearly 3, and although, they both went through stages of getting out of bed in the night, and getting into ours, they were both put back in their own beds. I don't mind them getting into my bed in the morning but I like my space at night and they both kick and move about so much that I can't sleep when they are in bed with me anyway. They now go to sleep in their own beds, and sleep through the night, unless they are ill, or something else is wrong. Hope this helps. x

Nicola - posted on 10/17/2009

co sleeping...love it when my 2 1/2 year old comes in to sleep with us. Its a real special moment just watching them sleeping peacefully and feeling completely relaxed

Waulonda - posted on 10/16/2009

I will never let my baby it out. That is not good for the baby. The baby will lose trust in their parents if they do not respond to their cries. This is a time when the baby start building trust. Never let a baby cry.

Tara - posted on 10/16/2009

I would recommend co sleeping. My daughter will be two in a month and she has co slept with my husband and I since she was born. Actually up until this week when she actually asked to sleep in her big girl bed. For the past four nights she has been sleeping in her own bed until she wakes up at some point in the night and then she comes into our bedroom again with us. I have let her know that she is always welcomed to come into our room any time she needs us. I feel like this has helped her to feel confident to try sleeping on her own. I want her to know that we are always here for her anytime. I know this might sound like a big jump but I always want her to come to me for her needs and I think setting this up now is important.

Crystal - posted on 10/16/2009

That is absurb. Did your ped. have any kids?? What's wrong with staying with your child until they fall asleep.?  That's what  I did. Mine is 5 now and sometimes wants me to lay down with him until he sleeps. But for the most part he goes to bed at bedtime and wakes for school. Locking your door and let the child fall asleep on the floor souds cruel and  non paternal. 

 

Quoting rebecca:

According to my Ped. crying it out. My dr. advised us to put a lock on our door and when we put our daughter to bed, lock our door and then no matter what, DO NOT open the door. He said she would fall alseep on the floor by the door, but she would only do it once or twice, then she would figure it out. We tried it, but I couldn't do it.......I would go outside and cry!!! And eventually give in..........needless to say, I now have a 4 yr old, who does NOT sleep. She goes to bed in between 10 and 11, wakes up at 7:30 and has more energy than anyone I have ever seen. If your child is sleeping with you, how in the world are you and your partner ATTEMPTING a relationship?????????

Cassandra - posted on 10/16/2009

Every one keeps going on about babies crying to get their way or to be manipulative. It really depends on the age. A brand new baby is crying because that is the only way to communicate. Yes, eventually a baby will learn that crying leads to some sort of attention. But, when you get to that point, you eventually learn the differences between I'm crying because I need something and the I'm crying because I don't want to be in my bed by myself, or what ever other reason. As I stated before I love co-sleeping with my son. We have started the CIO, but not if he's seriously crying and not for long periods of time.

Amy - posted on 10/16/2009

Sorry, E~ but I respectfully disagree. First- on the subjects of dogs. I have had a few dogs that I have raised. To infer a dog's intelligence is so limited it cannot remember it peed on the floor is silly. My dogs have only had accidents after I was not home for extended periods. They have never been yelled at for me being gone too long. Yet when I do enter my home, instead of the normal run for me in excitement, they slink away with their tail between their legs, because they peed. They will act the same if they chewed something in my absence. They do NOT act that way when they have behaved. If their memories are so short-how do they remember what pantry the treats are in? Or that the jingle of their collar means it's time to go out and play?



I have only been a mommy for 2+ years, but I have taken care of other people's children/babies for 20+years. I have been a nanny, counselor, babysitter, daycare teacher, and now a daycare owner. I work on experience, NOT on a book. (although if you'd like to use books as your preferred method of knowledge-that's your decision. NEITHER would be wrong) Babies most certainly can manipulate a situation. Not that they have the prepared thought of "Gee, I will scream, then I will get what I want". They do not have the brain capacity for that thought process, but they DO know what works. Their crying adapts as they age to achieve their goal (ie- feeding, diapering, attention, comfort). Babies develop object permanence (Memory) by 7 months. Before then knowledge is limited but developing-they learn based on experiences and interaction.

So yes, they realize IF they do a), they will get b).

definitely disagree with the thought that a "baby" doesn't think much about anything. The first year is one of the most spectacular and most quickly learning times of life. Object permanence is a main example.

Babies do on occasion cry for "no" reason. Some babies like to hear themselves being "verbal". Babies recognize when they make sound- you respond. Have you ever seen a baby sitting happily just screech out loud- all the while looking at you to see what you are going to do? You smile- they get the reward and repeat the behavior. Same goes with a negative response from you. You admonish them, but they will still repeat. They don't KNOW what they're doing? They are playing with you!



I

Jamie - posted on 10/16/2009

Quoting Erynne:

I'm sorry, but science doesn't back up your scenario. Facts are facts, and the facts are that infants cannot manipulate. And infants cannot control and calm their own emotional storms - they need a loving, patient, understanding parent for that.

- E

But science isn't fact, it is theory. How long have they thought tylenol was safe but now are debating it's dosages?How long was cold medicine on the shelves for children and now considered useless? CIO isn't much different, some "professionals" encourage it other are not for it. If all of a childs needs are taken care of, like my case my baby doesn't wake up until laid down in the crib then what does it hurt to let her cry for a few minutes? I think too many people look at crying it out on here as leaving a baby cry until they fall asleep, it isn't the case. Most give their baby time not a long time time but a little. My baby has 10 minutes if she isn't asleep by then I go get her. Anything I just read of the "science" here really makes no sense, does it mean a collicky baby who screams for hours at a time is going to be a failure as an adult because they spend some much time crying? I have read several books, I have searched the internet and  you will always get a mixed view on this. In the long run I do feel a baby can learn early on? If not why do we bother to explain the world to them? Why do we point out the pretty pink flower? Because they learn and adapt to the world around them. We create a bedtime routine and they adapt, sometimes the only reason they cry is because of that change but if you give in and say it isn't working before you given something a chance then how are you going to know what works or not?

My girls have a routine,  we wake  up, eat breakfast, play, morning nap for the baby, eat lunch, play afternoon nap for the baby and hopefully my two year old, play, eat dinner, bath, relaxation time and bed. My two year old won't even go into her room at night plus she doesn't even cry she screams at the top of her lungs and will not stay in her room. My 6 month old normally cries for about 5 minutes but she falls asleep.

I'm not a big fan of CIO but it helps. I also co-sleep my girls usually end up in my bed before we get up in the morning. I'd rather let them learn how to fall asleep with out me and have that independance.

Jacqueline - posted on 10/16/2009

i had the same dilemma. co sleeping worked for me.not responding to an infants cries only promotes trust issues. comfort & love your baby.

Lou - posted on 10/16/2009

Gosh I just read your later post explaining your situation - 2yr old and 6month old. I am in exactly the same boat and I hear you sister about the 2yr old just climbing out of bed and coming back out of her room! It's ok when hubby is home cause then there are 4 hands but when I am on my own it is hell round bed time. I have gotten myself into the situation where I read to my 2yr old and then have to sit there till she is asleep. Problem comes when bedtime comes and the baby is not asleep - or if she cries out during bedtime routine. All I do is remind myself that it is not forever! Good luck

Lou - posted on 10/16/2009

With my first I followed the book (can't remember which one!) and put her in her own room from a week old. Never had a problem but I used to wrap her so she was always comforted by that I suppose. When we had our second we didn't have an extra room until she was 4 months so she slept in her cot in our room. It really bothered me because I wake to their every wimper, even when they in their own room so to have her in our room - let's just say I didn't get much sleep! Now she is in her own room and has recently started sleeping through. Next battle is to loose the need to be wrapped - so far she is doing well. I remember before I had kids I thought that the CIO scene would work for me, teach them the boundries early, but I have never been able to stick it out! Funny how your perspective changes once you have kids...

Andrea - posted on 10/16/2009

Such a toughie no matter how you look at it. I think there are pros and cons either way but for us co-sleeping is the way to go. My son has slept with us from day one and at 16.5 months he's still in the bed with us and he still nurses during the night.

Some nights (and the following days) are really hard with mama not getting enough sleep but would I change it? No way. It's well worth it to see my happy, confident, well-loved and loving son. My mom keeps saying that around 18 months I'll start seeing a change in that he will begin to want his own bed and space. This was how she did things with myself and my sisters and we all turned out pretty good!!

I have tried to do things as naturally as possible and I believe that nursing and co-sleeping are two of the most important parts. Almost all animals sleep with their young. You don't see any closed doors in the animal kingdom except with humans and that practice is not only a recent one but mainly seen in north american culture only.

This time when they are young and tiny is so short. This is such a formative time period in their little lives. I say enjoy that little body snuggled up to you (or trying to nudge you off the bed!!) while it lasts.

Erynne - posted on 10/16/2009

Quoting Colleen:

I'd just like to share a little story.  The other day, my son woke up way too early from his nap (it happens).  I went in, and he started pouting and crying and looking up at me.  I rubbed his back, but I wasn't giving him what he wanted (to be picked up).  So he gave me what I call his "cheeky smile".  I still wasn't giving in.  I rubbed his back but didn't pick him up.  He automatically started pouting and crying again.  He definitely is trying to get what he wants and he was trying different methods in order to get his way.

How old is your "baby"? And how much of his behavior is YOU attributing your own emotional responses to him, and how much is HIS emotional response?

I think babies are often treated like dogs; people assume that their dog KNOWS they did something wrong when they've wee'd on the carpet, but what the dog KNOWS is that sometimes when mommy comes home, she gets angry and screams. And dogs have short memories, so they don't associate themselves with the wee-spot on the carpet; they just know SOMEONE wee'd on the carpet.

Babies are much the same. We Disney-ize them, attributing to them emotional responses far and away beyond their developmental level. Again, the glutamate system is not developed in the first year of life. It BEGINS developing, but is not DEVELOPED. Because of this, babies are not capable of thinking much about anything, let alone how to manipulate a parent.

So, if your baby is a 'baby' - less than one year - I think you are more than likely attributing your own emotional mental chatter to him. "Cheeky" smile says it all; that descriptive word means nothing to an infant. It is a purely adult construct and idea. If he is older than one year, then he may be starting to try different methods to achieve what he considers his needs: being held by a comforting caregiver.

Is it possible he woke up early because of some discomfort? Maybe he had a wet diaper, or had a gas bubble, or a sudden twinge of toothing pain. Let me give you back your situation in a different light:

He woke up from a discomfort that startled him and made him feel less-than-okay. He made some noise to try and attract the attention of someone who could help him deal with these negative feelings (because NO, babies CANNOT COPE with their feelings; this is why toddlers have tantrums and meltdowns; their brains aren't equipped to deal with big emotional issues, and EVERYTHING is a big emotional issue to an undeveloped brain). You came into the room and he cried to communicate his problem - the only way he HAS to communicate a problem. You began touching him, giving him what is proven through multiple experiments to calm the body down: physical contact.

He smiles in response. "You understand. You can see that I'm upset and you're helping me deal with it."

Unfortunately, the release of chemicals in his brain is strong enough that just being petted isn't enough to completely calm him, so he returns to fussing and crying because he's still having trouble with the hormone and chemical storm going on in his brain and body.

WHICH scenario sounds more likely? An infant with the ability to think complex thoughts and manipulate, or an unfinished human being who cannot deal with an overload of uncomfortable chemicals and hormones running rampant through their body who is communicating their discomfort/distress the only way they know how: by crying?

I'm sorry, but science doesn't back up your scenario. Facts are facts, and the facts are that infants cannot manipulate. And infants cannot control and calm their own emotional storms - they need a loving, patient, understanding parent for that.

- E