Does anyone believe that an unborn baby has a right to live?

Jodi - posted on 06/05/2012

" This is a scandal, yet pro-choice people are unwilling for any regulation to control quality issues."



Where have pro choice people ever indicated they don't want to see high quality abortion services? I fail to see how this argument is even logical to an anti-abortion stance.



"About the aftermath of abortion: has anyone mentioned the risks of that procedure? Women are still dying or suffering severe complications from abortion."



Do you understand the risk of abortion NOT being performed legally? Sorry, but your argument, again, is illogical. Women die from childbirth in hospitals too, should we stop doing that in hospitals and just have everyone home birth? If you are so CONCERNED about the women undertaking a risky procedure, then you would rather see them in a clinic than in someone's back bedroom having it done. No matter what your personal view on it, it is going to happen, whether legal or illegal. It has been happening for centuries. Wouldn't you rather know that the risk to the mother was minimised as much as possible?



I would very much like your evidence that these clinics are as dangerous as you say they are. Good God, woman, you don't think they'd be shut down if there were people dying from infection due to these filthy conditions you claim are so rife?



No-one has ignored that there is a risk with ANY medical procedure, I haven't seen anyone deny there is a risk. But the risk sure as shit is less than it used to be when it was illegal.

Jen - posted on 06/05/2012

It's very easy for people to attack God and say it's his fault that these children are where they are or that people are homeless or bad people never serve time in jail etc etc etc. ----

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"God either wants to eliminate bad things and cannot, or can but does not want to, or neither wishes to nor can, or both wants to and can. If he wants to and cannot, then he is weak - and this does not apply to god. If he can but does not want to, then he is spiteful - which is equally foreign to god's nature. If he neither wants to nor can, he is both weak and spiteful, and so not a god. If he wants to and can, which is the only thing fitting for a god, where then do bad things come from? Or why does he not eliminate them?"

Epicurus 307BC

Stifler's - posted on 06/05/2012

I need to stop reading this thread. LOL.

Asmi - posted on 06/05/2012

lovely thoight beautifully put! hats off to your line of thought!!!!!!!!!Spread the word....

Jen - posted on 06/05/2012

Science? Babies are not science experiments! They are living breathing human beings honey and sry if u want to believe its all science I believe it's God. I can state that just as much as u can say it's all science. Don't tell me what to leave out of a conversation and what I can or can not bring to the table! There are other forums u can go to to rag about us Christians but here were allowed to give our opinion and talk about our own life situations! Don't like it? Leave.
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Since you hold science in such disdain, why do you use a computer?

Jen - posted on 06/05/2012

Now as far as tubal pregancies being considered murder WTF who is that stupid??!!! I mean come on if u knew ur elbow from a whole in the ground u would know that if it's a tubal pregnancy NOT ONLY is it most likely going to kill the mother but also the baby. I mean come on use ur brain it typically kills the mother within the 1st trimester so since when can a baby be born in the 1st trimester & live? It CAN'T. '
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I'm frankly stunned that more people dont' see the inconsistency with the pro-some-life camp in this regard.

Jen - posted on 06/05/2012

First off I want to address the people who are putting this.. "god" on their comments like there is no God. If there's no God then u can tell me w a straight face that we were made from a stupid explosian and we were just an accident or oh my favorite is we come from apes! Do you realize how complicated the human body is? Just how everything works so perfectly to sustain life? An accident? I think not.
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Just wanted to add that there is a very high percentage of Christians that do accept the current findings of physics, cosmology, geology and biology.

Jen - posted on 06/05/2012

First off I want to address the people who are putting this.. "god" on their comments like there is no God. If there's no God then u can tell me w a straight face that we were made from a stupid explosian and we were just an accident or oh my favorite is we come from apes! Do you realize how complicated the human body is? Just how everything works so perfectly to sustain life? An accident? I think not.
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Pleasev visit talkorigins.com because you are not well educated in what the scientific theories actually state. Then certainly if you still dont' believe in it, at least you're able to make an educated decision.

Because right now, you're totally wrong. No one says that things happened by accident or that we came from apes.

So please read up a bit.

Jen - posted on 06/05/2012

And how is this "pro-life"?
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Because Johnny, we both know that it is only pro-some-life. Not all. Adults matter less than infants but ONLY and I can't stress this enough, ONLY before they're born. AFter that, it's not our problem anymore is it. Oh dear, all those children in foster care who will never be adopted? Well, tough cookies, but hey life is better than anything. And those little darlings who are born to drug addicts and the mentally ill? Well certainly there must be something to help them but let's make darn sure that no tax payer money goes towards that.

And the women who die during pregnancy and labor, well they're God's special angels now aren't they?

Susan - posted on 06/05/2012

Julie, "God always has the perfect family in mind" ..... tell all the kids in Foster Care that and see what they say. If they are not 'babies' or very young, they spend their pre-adult years 'waiting' for someone to give them a chance. Everyone wants a "baby". Even anti-choice want everyone to have a "baby". What about all the children around the world being killed in war? Or abused by their parents, step-parents, Foster Parents. I thing every child born should have a happy, healthy, carefree child's life. It doesn't happen now and ESPECIALLY won't happen if women who don't 'want' to have (for whatever reason) are forced to have babies they don't want, etc.

In a "perfect" world, all children WOULD be happy, healthy and have parents who love them, but this is NOT a perfect world. Seems to me that anti-choice people are pretty self-righteous - wanting to tell everyone else what they should or should not do based on their own "opinion". And, that's all it is, an OPINION. Whether there is a GOD or not, we are left to our own decisions. Things we have no choice in happen all the time too. God does NOT intervene. If he did, this world would not be as cruel as it is - for ALL living creatures, humans included. If you believe in God, you should be following the words of Jesus - doing all you can for those less fortunate or those that have NO Choices in their life. You would ALL be demanding a stop to WARS. Or, how about we just make a law that those who are anti-choice, take-in all these children ALREADY in the world and give them some real scriptural compassion?

Medic - posted on 06/05/2012

The important difference between science and religion is that religion comes with ABSOLUTE statements, that neither can be proved or disproved, and science evolves from relative truths and statements, that can be testified and proven false (which means: science has to develop, in order to replace (partly) untrue theories, and replace them with better ones).
Science does not claim it has absolute knowledge on anything. Religion claims it has.

All scientific theories are in principle disprovable, and in the end all theories will be disproven (at least it can be shown there is a limiiting case in which the theory does not work).

Religion can in principle not be disproven. Which does not contribute either to it's proof. It is also unprovable.

if something is neither provable nor disprovable, then it is useless.
It can only have value to people who prefer to be ignorant, and don't want to get into complicated knowledge, and prefer to believe in something that is disprovable.

Science is for people that realize that in order to aquire knowledge, some work (sometimes a LOT) has to be done! And even despite you put in a LOT oif work, someone else my disproof all (or part) of your work! That is : you have to try even harder!

Religion is for people who claim to know EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY ("God created the world", for instance ) without having done any work to get to that opinion, and for which nobody can give any disproof. So it is a very safe position. You don't have to do WORK for entitling yourself an opinion on matters that seem important, and nobody can force you to do some work for finding a better opinion, cause there lacks the ability to disproof you.

What a comfortable position! and with that....I am done.

Medic - posted on 06/05/2012

Ok genius......what makes up an organism......hold on.....OMG cells. It is not even medically concitered a fetus until 10 weeks, before that it is a bunch of cells that divide. They have no ability to think for themselves therefore they are JUST cells.

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

Here's your science...... Look it up... Were not a cluster of cells written by a "scientist " ....
“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George

“Human embryos, whether they are formed by fertilization (natural or in vitro) or by successful somatic-cell nuclear transfer (SCNT — i.e., cloning), do have the internal resources and active disposition to develop themselves to the mature stage of a human organism, requiring only a suitable environment and nutrition. In fact, scientists distinguish embryos from other cells or clusters of cells precisely by their self-directed, integral functioning — their organismal behavior. Thus, human embryos are what the embryology textbooks say they are, namely, human organisms — living individuals of the human species — at the earliest developmental stage.” – Dr. Robert George


LIVING individuals at our earliest stage....

Carol - posted on 06/04/2012

What a lot of heat this question generated! About those children with difficult lives: I am sure that very few of them would be better off dead. Many people have overcome horrendous problems, loss, and abuse and have gone on to have good lives. Everyone deserves a chance.
About teaching abstinence: yes, many kids won't listen to that message, but we shouldn't give them a false sense of security by implying that birth control will protect them. Some birth control is medically risky, and all of it has a failure rate. Yes, even the pill. Yes, even tying the tubes! I know a girl conceived after her mother had her tubes tied! So at least let's tell kids the truth.
About the aftermath of abortion: has anyone mentioned the risks of that procedure? Women are still dying or suffering severe complications from abortion. The back-alley butchers are now in legal clinics, but they are often still butchers. Many abortion clinics are filthy places that cut corners, and yet they are not regulated to the same standards as hospitals and other clinics. This is a scandal, yet pro-choice people are unwilling for any regulation to control quality issues.
There is a lot more to this issue than is usually admitted. Let's consider all the facts.

Medic - posted on 06/04/2012

Ummm I hate to break it to you but Science is not a religion.....Science is PROVEN FACT. I don't even see how you could bs your way through that sentence and think it made any sence. Religion is based on faith...not fact....whereas Science is based on fact not faith. And Science has proved that the fetus is a bunch of cells.....what the hell do you think you are.....a bunch of cells.

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

Just a bunch of cells? Let's see a bunch of cells rhat have a heart beat, fingerprints, lungs, legs, arms, head, brAin, eyes, eye lashes, eye brows, fingernails, bones, blood, toes, and can hear sound, have the hiccups, and suck it thumb before it's ever born! I personally have never ever seen my blood cells do that when I'm donating blood. Science is ur religion God is mine and who are u to say it has no bearing on a woman's choice to abort her baby? Pretty sure that it has a lot to do with it considering what's been brought up in previous conversations! Get off ur high horse and realize that everyone has an opinion and an opinion is neither right nor wrong so don't tell me I can't bring religion in because it's just like u bringing ur strong belief of science into this forum.

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

Susan- I'm very sorry that u feel that way. I know that there are children in foster care and what u said doesn't change my mind about what I said. Poverty is everywhere I know this too. The church I attend is involved in several missions and I personally am also. However if I were to take brandys look on this forum I would simply ask u to stay on task but here's my answer... I cry when I think about children who are abused or older children in foster care with little or no hope of adoption. It doesn't change my view on abortion. It's very easy for people to attack God and say it's his fault that these children are where they are or that people are homeless or bad people never serve time in jail etc etc etc. We ALL can make out of life what we want we chose to be happy in our circumstances or curse God for them. My life hasn't been a perfect life I've had a lot of heartaches. I simply choose a different path. When is it the responsibility of our government to step in? Or for just the American people? When will somebody step up and say let's take care of our less fortunate and let's band together to get the people who are taking advantage of our welfare system some counseling and job help. Our world is filled with disappointment but MY life is not. I won't say why cuz god forbid brandy will jump down my throat yet again.

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Science? Babies are not science experiments! They are living breathing human beings honey and sry if u want to believe its all science I believe it's God. I can state that just as much as u can say it's all science. Don't tell me what to leave out of a conversation and what I can or can not bring to the table! There are other forums u can go to to rag about us Christians but here were allowed to give our opinion and talk about our own life situations! Don't like it? Leave.
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Hmm, maybe I hit a nerve. Where did I say babies were science experiments?? Yes, BABIES are living, breathing human beings...embryos and fetuses are NOT. Therein lies the difference. Pregnancy is not just a ball of emotions and "God". Pregnancy is science. If you don't understand that a fetus isn't miraculously placed in woman's body after sex, then you really do need to find a science book. God doe not place an embryo in a woman's womb. It takes a man's sperm plus a woman's egg, plus the right time of the month. Then it's about a bunch of cells dividing...and that's what an embryo is - a bunch of cells, nothing more. A fetus is the beginnings a baby, but it is NOT a baby until it can survive on it's own outside of the womb. Therefore an abortion is NOT the same thing as murdering a human being. THAT is the science I was referring to.

If you want to keep bringing religion into this conversation, that's totally your choice. But it's also my choice to remind you that those are YOUR beliefs and they have no bearing on anyone else's choices.

Medic - posted on 06/04/2012

The intellegent argue with scientific facts, the less than argue with slanted propaganda. It seems that some of these posts have either a god undertone or a need to stir the pot so to say. Nothing wrong with stiring the pot if one is ready for the opinions that come. Sadly it seems that most seem to talk in meaningless circles.

The long and short of it is that it really has no affect on anyone elses life what a woman chooses to do with HER uterus. All of these nanny laws and just the plain nanny way of thought is redonkulous. I am not cattle no one but ME as a say in my body, be it birth control, abortion, or self freaking mutilation.

The fact that the over zealous propaganda that will be forever perpetuated by the pro lifers is carelessly and frivolously shoved down peoples throats (put it in a sandwich it will go down easier) is fabricated and presented under false "medical facts" is causing more harm than good.

The push for birth control started in 1924 because of "coathanger abortions" done by mothers trying to save the families they already had. It is a topic that will always cause great debate and there will always be vastly opposing sides. Offencive and forcefull language will NEVER get anyone to even try and see things from your point of view. Those who spend so much freaking time worrying about what goes on in another womans sex organs needs to get a life and make damn sure they are not the ones living in glass houses.

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Julie, when I was a teen I DID practice abstinence. Not because I was told not to have sex (my parents really didn't talk to me about it) but because I was smart enough to know that sex can lead to disease and pregnancy. But guess what...once I turned 18 and thought I was "all grown up", and my hormones were raging...I stopped listening to my inner voice. Guess where that lead me...pregnant a few months after high school graduation. Lucky for me, my boyfriend at the time is my husband now. Lucky for me, my family was very supportive of their oldest daughter getting knocked up on the cusp of adulthood. I now have a teenage son (that 1st pregnancy I mentioned). I have talked to him about sex. I have told him if he's going to do it, he better be damn sure he has protection...and talk to the girl about having protection as well. I have never told him not to do it...and not educate him about protection. That is the quickest way for him to go out and get some girl pregnant. You said you're a grandma. Maybe you're out of the loop a bit. But advocating straight abstinence DOES NOT WORK. You WILL see more teen pregnancies and more abortions if you teach abstinence only. It has been done...and it has FAILED.

Get over the religion thing. I wouldn't have harped on it if so many of you wouldn't bring it up. You didn't hit a nerve...I have just explained it over and over already. Just as you say we shouldn't judge a baby's potential quality of life (however, a child that will remain in constant pain and suffering until death is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy...so it's confusing to me that pro-lifers argue for life at ANY cost, even if that life will be one of suffering), you shouldn't judge anyone who wants to abort.

Jaime - posted on 06/04/2012

i believe abortion is a personal choice ... there is no reason why people choose it but at the end of the day they made that choice they have to deal with it

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

Science? Babies are not science experiments! They are living breathing human beings honey and sry if u want to believe its all science I believe it's God. I can state that just as much as u can say it's all science. Don't tell me what to leave out of a conversation and what I can or can not bring to the table! There are other forums u can go to to rag about us Christians but here were allowed to give our opinion and talk about our own life situations! Don't like it? Leave.

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

Ur quite opinionated about a lot but ur logic isnt all that it's cracked up to be either. The "the more u tell them not to the more they want to" logic is the problem. If everyone thinks that it's because it's been repeated so many times that it's an acceptable excuse. But that's just what it is is an excuse. Teen boys think it's cool to see who can sleep with the most girls and then girls are sluts cuz they sleep with them. When abstinence is taught right it's not simply saying to someone don't have sex. It's letting them know it's ok to say no! That when u find that love of ur life and u get married that it's a gift for ur spouse to say hey I saved myself for u and only you! Ya it's hard but so worth it!
OMG stop ragging on me about my religion! I went back and looked at ur previous comments and sorry if I hit a nerve with the whole quality of life comment! Get over it!

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Julie if you go back and re-read ALL the comments (mine start on page 12 if you're interested), I didn't rehash anything you've said because I've already stated my stance many times and so have others. I get on people about religion because your beliefs do not impact anyone but you. Therefore, why bother to bring them up? You believe in God...good for you. You believe God always has your back and the backs of your kin. Great. You believe that God will always give you only what you can handle. Awesome. But those beliefs have no bearing on another woman's choice to abort. So to me, they are a moot point that don't need to be brought up. And they especially don't need to be pushed into a conversation where other people don't share the same beliefs. Please don't turn this on me. My posts have only BEEN about the subject at hand...and the science behind it. There are others here, including you, who want to turn this into a religion thing. It is not. Please leave religion out of it and return to the topic at hand.

Susan - posted on 06/04/2012

Julie, "God always has the perfect family in mind" ..... tell all the kids in Foster Care that and see what they say. If they are not 'babies' or very young, they spend their pre-adult years 'waiting' for someone to give them a chance. Everyone wants a "baby". Even anti-choice want everyone to have a "baby". What about all the children around the world being killed in war? Or abused by their parents, step-parents, Foster Parents. I thing every child born should have a happy, healthy, carefree child's life. It doesn't happen now and ESPECIALLY won't happen if women who don't 'want' to have (for whatever reason) are forced to have babies they don't want, etc.

In a "perfect" world, all children WOULD be happy, healthy and have parents who love them, but this is NOT a perfect world. Seems to me that anti-choice people are pretty self-righteous - wanting to tell everyone else what they should or should not do based on their own "opinion". And, that's all it is, an OPINION. Whether there is a GOD or not, we are left to our own decisions. Things we have no choice in happen all the time too. God does NOT intervene. If he did, this world would not be as cruel as it is - for ALL living creatures, humans included. If you believe in God, you should be following the words of Jesus - doing all you can for those less fortunate or those that have NO Choices in their life. You would ALL be demanding a stop to WARS. Or, how about we just make a law that those who are anti-choice, take-in all these children ALREADY in the world and give them some real scriptural compassion?

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Women have consciences. Eventually, it will catch up to them that they have killed another human being as a matter of convenience. We shouldn't be advocating to children and preteens about birth control and condom usage. We should be advocating abstinence. We need to be teaching self-worth and self-control.
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LOL..."killed another human being as a matter of convenience"?? Have you even been reading anything anyone has posted to you?? Most women do not getting abortions because they are "convenient"! And those who get them because they are needed tend to live their lives years later just fine. A family member of mine who's had an abortion in the past is doing just fine with the two kids she does have all these later. You are assuming that every women who has an abortion is doing it "just because" and that later on they are going to have a tremendous amount of guilt. You are assuming WRONG. And you certainly aren't reading what everyone here has been saying.

Yes, let's keep teaching abstinence...as that has proven to work so well...NOT. If you want the number of abortions to rise, by all means keep telling teens not to have sex. Keep not telling them that if they want to have sex, they should use as many means of protection as they can. Because we all know, teaching them about protection only makes them want to have sex more...NOT. People, teens and adults, are going to have sex regardless if they are told not to. In fact, they more they are told not to, the more they want to. We need to teach about safe sex and protection...not "don't do it". Sheesh...people never learn!

Again, your beliefs in God are YOURS. YOU can put your faith there if you choose...don't expect everyone to have the same beliefs as you, though.

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

A. I'm not pushing any mire then anyone else in the last 300 comments and since when does an adult conversation only include people who don't believe in God? I'm an adult and I've been thru a lot and sry if my strength comes from him and offends u. Crazy how from everything I said the only thing u took from it is my religion? That speaks volumes. I'm not going to repeat what I said but I will tell u and there are a lot of people on here (read the previous 300 comments) that I'm simply agreeing with that abortion is killing and taking a life. I apoligize if it came off "preachy" to u but this is a subject I feel strongly about and considering this is an open forum I assumed I had the right to state my opinion as well. I am an adult therefore I won't attack u as u just did me and I would hope u will concentrate on the subject at hand instead of how I chose to believe.

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Julie Sager - wow, talk about preachy! First off, your belief in God is your own. Leave it out of everyone else's life but your own. Your choice in your beliefs has no bearing on my choice in my life. You can believe whatever you want about abortion. I'll just say it's a damn good thing your beliefs don't dictate our laws. Goodness knows the GOP are trying lately, but I have a strong belief women's rights will prevail. The "picture" you are showing is one of ignorance. You say who are we to judge the quality of life of a child? Who are you to judge any other person but yourself? Please, do us all favor and leave your Bible at home and pick up a science book if you want to join the adult conversation on adult matters. Your beliefs remain yours...and you absolutely should NOT be pushing them onto anyone else.

Amy - posted on 06/04/2012

Megan, there are so many places offering counseling post-abortion because it is major trauma for a woman or young girl. I'm not talking about the physical trauma. The mental trauma is much worse. Women have consciences. Eventually, it will catch up to them that they have killed another human being as a matter of convenience. We shouldn't be advocating to children and preteens about birth control and condom usage. We should be advocating abstinence. We need to be teaching self-worth and self-control.

As far as your scenario goes, like I said in a previous post, the situation would be very unfortunate. Doctors, however, can be wrong. We have to put our faith, and sometimes our lives, in God's hands. Fortunately, my boys would be left in good hands if I died. I hope you have a living will. You have to realize that your life could be taken from you tomorrow, and your daughter would be in the same situation that you stated to me. My other kids do matter. I hope they would see that I would do anything for one of them. I'm not a bad mom because I'm against killing babies.

Amanda - posted on 06/04/2012

@ Amy I'm in 100% agreement unless u or ur partner has had the nessary surgery to prevent pregnancy then the ONLY other way 2 be 100% "protected" is to NOT drop ur pants 2 start with. I have 2 beautiful girls & it took a LOT of failed trying for me to conceve both of them. Then with my youngest I spent the 1st 6 months in & out of the hospital I had 2 have a pick line put in so I could give my self IVs at home it was a VERY rough pregancy. My Dr thought I was going to lose her many times. He even thought I was putting my life in danger by choosing to continue carrying her. But I made it & so did she. Then during the delivery she had a bowel movement & was born she was purple due 2 the cord being wrapped around her neck twice. Now I was VERY lucky. Now I'm NOT saying that every mother should take the risks I did but because I choose 2 believe that God would get me & my baby through this that everything would go how he had plained I knew that I was making the right choice. And now I had to have a hysterectomy so now I CAN'T have any more children. Which at times brings me 2 tears. But at the same time who am I 2 take or even judge someone else for an abortion. I don't think it's the best choice but all that is is my OWN PERSONAL OPPION. Now as far as tubal pregancies being considered murder WTF who is that stupid??!!! I mean come on if u knew ur elbow from a whole in the ground u would know that if it's a tubal pregnancy NOT ONLY is it most likely going to kill the mother but also the baby. I mean come on use ur brain it typically kills the mother within the 1st trimester so since when can a baby be born in the 1st trimester & live? It CAN'T. Then there's the times when the mother is told that having the baby is most likely going to kill her so is the mother a murder because she choose her own life instead of the baby's. What if the mother has other children at home what's that going 2 do 2 the other children or how's the baby going 2 feel when it's older & finds out it's the reason it's mom died. And NO MATTER HOW HARD u try 2 hide it eventually the baby will find out. That's y I believe EVERY woman should have the right 2 make this choice on her own 2 do what she feels is the best 4 her situation. Even though I personally would never do it thats all that is is me personally. I know people who's had abortions & yeah I didn't agree with it & I thought it was the wrong choice it was their life & their choice NOT mine. And I don't have a right 2 judge ANYONE 4 ANY of the choices they have made or will make in their own lives. The ONLY one who has that right is God. And sorry Amy I WASN'T directing ALL of this at u. I was just telling u that I agreed with what u said lol.

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Megan, my husband has talked about getting a vasectomy. I have told him I'd get my tubes tied, but he's more leaning towards the vasectomy since it's an easier procedure. We're still talking about it. Meanwhile, I take the pill daily.

Julie - posted on 06/04/2012

Y'all are killin me!!! I don't even remember exactly who said what cuz I've read so many comments here...
First off I want to address the people who are putting this.. "god" on their comments like there is no God. If there's no God then u can tell me w a straight face that we were made from a stupid explosian and we were just an accident or oh my favorite is we come from apes! Do you realize how complicated the human body is? Just how everything works so perfectly to sustain life? An accident? I think not.
Secondly... I don't agree w abortion under ANY circumstances! And those of u that say well what if having the baby was going to kill both mom and baby? Really? How many times a day do u think an Ob doc says that to their patients? I've never heard of that! And yes I know it happens where mom and baby or just mom or just baby die during childbirth but pretty sure it wasn't known ahead of time.
Aa for a victim of rape... My 18 yr old daughter was raped and she's refused to kill her child because it's not the child's fault! She also has chosen to keep her and I
Now the proud grandma of a beautiful 5 month old girl and my daughter is a wonderful mommy! God has blessed her! However a victim of rape has that choice of giving her baby to a couple who can't have their own.
As for the question of "who's going to adopt a special needs baby? There's plenty of people who will and God always has the perfect family in mind.
Last and not least is I keep hearing the "quality of life" thrown out there. This really upsets me because who are u to judge what quality of life a baby has? So if u happen to lose ur job ur home ur car and end up living on the streets that's considered a bad quality of life so should we just kill u? Cuz ur quality of life at that point looks to us as awful. Or maybe what we don't see from the outside is this... Ya u lost all those things but ur wife who u never saw before cuz u were too busy working to pay for that nice house and nice car and all ur things is now ur best friend and ur relationship is 100% better and u happier now.
Get the picture I'm trying to show y'all? We are fearfully and wonderfully made is what the bible says! He never said we were made to b perfect. What is perfect anyway? I've worked with disabled children before and they seem a lot more sincere and carefree then any "regular" people I know.
We don't know what the future holds for us or anyone else.... But shouldn't EVERYONE get the right to see it?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 06/04/2012

Brandy, I told my husband after the last ones I'll nurse a year and a half then get my tubes tied. And I said I want my last two before I turn 34.

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Amy, YOU believe what God has in store will work out. That's fine. There are many people who don't believe in God, or don't follow your God. You cannot use God as an example of being against abortion for anyone but yourself.

And you are essentially stating that we shouldn't have sex with our husband's if we don't want the chance of being pregnant. Sorry, but my sex life with my husband and whether I want a baby or not is none of your business. In fact, we have two boys. I don't want any more children. I am on the pill...and so far, so good. *knock on wood* lol. I am 35 this year. If I were to get pregnant, my risk of caring a child with birth defects have effectively gone up due to my age. However, I will not stop having sex with the man I've shared the last 18 years of my life with just because I run a 1% chance of becoming pregnant. If it happens, what we decide from there on is mine and my husband's decision. It's not for you to worry about. Worry about yourself and whether your God will give you all you can handle. I will worry about me.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 06/04/2012

Amy you're kidding, sex can lead to pregnancy! Wow! I didn't get that from those years in health class or actually having children of my own. Please read the parenthesis. You have a 100% chance of not having a baby if you DO NOT HAVE SEX ie ABSTINENCE.

For the record ladies I don't advocate using abortion as birth control. That's why birth control and condom usage should be advocated to children and preteens as well as teenagers so they don't end up like my birth mom. That's why I have started having sex talks with my 7 year old. So we don't have as many issues and what ifs. That's also why when using one form of contraception you should always have a back up.

But Amy, you didn't really answer my question about what if one of your children would go to someone who didn't think of her as anything more than a tax credit if you died? Because that's what would happen with my 7 year old if I did die. My ex could take her back and he doesn't care for her.

Humans are one of the few mammals that has sex for more than just procreation. I know this is a shock for some of you, but it's true. Sex isn't just for pro-creation. And no not everyone thinks about that when they are having sex, but that's why you should talk to your kids about sex. So then you have less of a chance of your 12 or 13 year old getting herself knocked up by another kid. Like it or not people are going to have recreational sex and not think of the consequences til later.

Oh, and if abortion is an easy fix- why do so many places offer counseling and support for a woman after she goes through one?

Amy - posted on 06/04/2012

Megan, per your statement to Julianne, you don't have a 1% chance of pregnancy if you are abstinent. If you didn't want to be pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex. Every sexual intercourse encounter can result in the conception of a baby. If you aren't prepared for that, don't have sex.

Amy - posted on 06/04/2012

Johnny, we have no idea what God has in store for us. Doctors have been wrong. We have to put our faith, and sometimes our lives, in God's hands. Do I think it would be a difficult decision if I were placed in the scenarios that you stated? Of course. I have a wonderful husband and two beautiful boys. However, I have to believe that every human being has a right to life. I just don't believe that we have the right to take life, that is God given, away.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 06/04/2012

@ Johnny, no of course not! We're just breathing incubators with no soul or rights what so ever. Women having rights. WTF are you thinking? Gawd

@ Amy- so if your life is in danger and you risk leaving your other children with out a mom and the possiblity of one of your children having to go live with a father who doesn't do anything but pay child support you'd just say yeah, my other kids don't matter?

@ Julieanne- Protection (save for abstinence and tubal ligation) is only 99% affective. There is still a 1% chance that something will happen and you will get pregnant. That's what happened with my 2nd baby. I used protection and I still got pregnant. (Please no one tell me it was God's will because I will virtual scream) Women who get pregnant don't necessarily do so because they didn't use protection and weren't careful. Besides, shouldn't the man also be using protection?

Ok my opinion (besides that people should start using spell check on here or stop letting their iPads auto correct everything) is that you should keep your laws out of my bedroom and your opinions to yourself sometimes.

Johnny - posted on 06/04/2012

So Amy, if an abortion must be performed to save the life of the mother, is it still wrong? If left undone, both the mother and the baby will die, how is that protecting everyone? How about in a case where the mother must die for the baby to live? Is that a sacrifice that must be made? And how is this "pro-life"? I realize that these situations do not account for a large percentage of abortions, but when people make sweeping statements such as "Abortion is always wrong! No matter what the circumstances, a human life begins at conception. Everyone, even the unborn, must be protected" then these questions become very relevant.

Pamela - posted on 06/04/2012

The question of abortion rights has raged in this country for decades now, ever since Wade vs Roe gave such rights to women in America.



It is incorrect to judge anyone for any reason, including their choices in life. Yes we have laws to govern society, yet we still have criminals who disobey the laws. I am of the opinion that judgment against another defies the laws of Divinity.



This Universe has the GIFT of Free Will Choice. Even God does not take that right from us, unless we give God permission to go against our Free Will.



So, who are we to "judge" another for their choices. I, for one, do my best to not judge others. I must say I must practice at it because I was reared in America where judgment is "par for the course". It is taught to us by our own society, unfortunate as that has become.



I can understand your curiosity about other's opinions, but I caution you about your "judgment of others" for whatever belief or reason you may hold. The Highest and Best to you!

Julieanne - posted on 06/04/2012

I personaly think abortion is wrong, but every one has the write to an opinon. To think there are so many woman out there who would love to have children and carnt. And there are other woman out there and carnt be bothered to use protection and get an abortion. so sad. every baby shuold have a right to live, but thats my opinon.

Amy - posted on 06/04/2012

Abortion is always wrong! No matter what the circumstances, a human life begins at conception. Everyone, even the unborn, must be protected. If we, as human beings, could learn to accept everyone, we wouldn't have an issue about whether or not someone deserves to live, regardless of handicaps. We should not be the ones who get to decide if someone lives or dies.

Tiffiny - posted on 06/04/2012

i personally am against abortions but it is none of my business if someone else decides to do so..... when i was pregnant with each of my 4 children i never once did the genetic testing i said no matter what i'm keeping my babies healthy or unhealthy..... i have a son who is adhd and had tubes in his ears, another son who has very poor vision, a daughter who needs tubes in her ears and who knows about my 3rd son whether he'll need anything in his future but i wouldn't change anything about them.... our finances are very low but we do not get help from anyone ( not wic or government ) it is very tough but i believe that one day our troubles will be over that god always is watching and he's in our hearts and our lives "this to shall pass" (as for any storm that we face) but it is the mother's decision as to what she wants nobody elses

Brandy - posted on 06/04/2012

Jessica Hooper - every baby has the right to live!!
Babette Van Hook - Every baby, no matter what, has a right to life!
---
Not only should the mother also have a right to life, as Johnny mentioned, but the child should have a right to a QUALITY life. Bringing a child with a debilitating condition into this world to suffer is NOT quality life. Before you claim that "every baby, no matter what" should have a chance at life, think about what that life could mean. There are times when that child would be better off aborted before suffering a life of misery.

Sharon - posted on 06/04/2012

I believe the mother has the right to make the choice. I won't justify why I believe that, I don't feel I need to.
I am also shocked to find out that some people believe the removal of an ectopic pregnancy is the same as abortion. I guess to those of you that believe this and also liken abortion to murder, then that makes me (and some other lovely ladies here) a murderer. I won't apologise for that. I am alive, and my husband still has a wife, and my daughter still has a mother and now she has a brother. If I had left it all up to "God" then none of that would exist today.

Amanda - posted on 06/04/2012

Me personally I feel abortian is murder, but in the same breath I'm COMPLETELY pro-choice. Yes I know it makes me sound very hipacritical but just because I personally could NEVER kill my own unborn child who am I 2 take that right away from other women. Whither the reason be due to the child having an illness, being victim of rap, a risk to the mothers life, or just simply the mother not wanting the baby. Although I do STRONGLY feel that if u can't or are not ready to take care of a baby then u should never have spread ur legs to start with please excuse my bluntness but it still holds true. Of course I'm NOT referring to the women who have the abortion due to medical reasons or rap just the women who have abortions because they decide they don't want the baby after taking a WILLING part in making the baby KNOWING that a baby could result from it because there's NOTHING out there that's 100% other the NOT doing it or having operations done 2 prevent pregnancy. But like I was saying the reason I AM FOR giving even those women the right to have an abortion is because if their forced to have a child that they didn't want that child has a higher chance of being abused, neglected, or other things along those lines then a child that was born to parents who wanted that child. And I feel that at least if they have the right to have an abortion then at least that child never has to live a life of suffering. Which in my oppion is far worse. Yes I know there is adoption but who's to say that all these women are going to put the child up for adoption. What if they don't & the child has to go through a life of suffering just because someone else decided to take the right to have an abortion away. Heck I heard there trying to pass a law that gives the family up to so many months AFTER the child is BORN to decide if they want the child. If they decide they don't they take the child to a "special" Dr that basicly puts the child to sleep. Like we do to animals who are old, sick, or suffering in some way. Let's say that law does pass what's better abortion or aborting a child that's ALREADY been born & HAS LIVED a few months. Like I said my self personally I COULDN'T even imagine doing something like that to 1 of my children but that's just me but who are we to judge those who do. It's NOT our job to judge that's God's job & his alone.

Lisa - posted on 06/04/2012

You like to stir up controversy, don't you?

Firebird - posted on 06/04/2012

@Johnny... apparently not.

Firebird - posted on 06/04/2012

@ Ash Mash ~ "Im not sure if your saying this cause your in this position... but if anyone can afford to smoke, drink alc, buy takeaways then the excuse for financial reasons is just being bad people."

Do you have any idea how much it can cost to properly raise a special needs child? Many people who have disabled children don't have time to drink or eat out more than a few times a year. There are tons of special needs kids in the town I live in, and there are only a few parents who choose to pay for smokes and booze before their kid's needs.

My daughter only has mild Autism and her therapies are bloody expensive. Then there's the fact that I can't leave her with just anyone, so I can only work on days that my mom can babysit. Last time I put her in daycare, after just 5 days she had lost 6 MONTHS of developmental progress! As a single mom, money is tight enough as it is, but because of my daughter's disability, I can only work part time. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have the kind of family support that I do.

Point is: drinking and smoking is a minor factor in a family's ability to 'properly' care for a special needs child. Do some research and find out how expensive intense therapies for Autistic kids are. I know that if I were to have a second special needs child, as a single mom, I would NEVER be able to provide it with a decent chance in life. I don't drink more than 2-3 times per year and I don't eat out often. I can't imagine having an abortion because of it, however, I can understand why some people may not be in a decent enough financial state to care for one.

Johnny - posted on 06/04/2012

Does every mother have the right to life too?