DRINKING ALCOHOL DURING PREGNANCY BENEFICIAL?

Amanda - posted on 04/30/2009 ( 325 moms have responded )

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I have heard lots of controversy here on circle of moms over the last couple of weeks as to weather or not alcohol during pregnancy is harmful or beneficial. One person keeps telling me it is the norm for people to have the occasional drink while pregnant and most people do drink while pregnant and I have always been told that there is no safe amount and to completely abstain from any and all alcoholic beverages.
This really has me thinking and curious about what other mothers thought on this topic.
So I want to know does the majority drink while pregnant, is this the new norm Or is this person who told me everyone does it just mis informed.
Are we going to be seeing pamphlets in the doctors office telling us to drink to benefit our children?

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Jinglebones - posted on 05/05/2009

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What year is this?? I think most literate people who have lived outside a cave in the past 20 years know that alcohol and pregnancy do not mix. Oh, I know that FAS is still rampant and I have seen people dragging on their cigs and resting their beer cans on their pregnant bellies but lets be realistic here, people who do that are living in far worse circumstances than a cave - it's called ignorance. I like my glass of wine as much as the next person, but I do not delude myself for one minute that it is okay to splash a little on my forming fetus. I know I may have waded into this one a little late, but for those of us who spent our working lives waist deep in the wreckage of innocent lives pickled in alcohol, this is a no-brainer. No alcohol equals no brain damage. Why risk it...

Julie - posted on 05/05/2009

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Hi I'm a mom of 4 (biological and foster parent) and a developmental specialist that works with young children with special needs. Don't drink during pregnancy! I see the effects drugs/alcohol can have on young children's life; your just playing a game if you choose to drink during your pregnancy. If you choose to drink the child could be ok and not have any ill effects but on the other hand they could have full fetal alcohol effects or syndrome; and it can lead to behavioral/learning difficulties in school. Why take the chance??? Children are a gift from God! Psalm 127:3-5

Mary - posted on 05/05/2009

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Ok one last comment and I am done...

If you are not able to refrain from drinking for nine months, just to be safe. Maybe you have bigger issues with alcohol than you think and maybe just maybe you should take care of that before you get pregnant.... just a thought....

Now, that being said, some of you ladies need to get back to work or take care of your kids, whichever you CHOOSE.

Amanda - posted on 05/05/2009

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Quoting Jaime:



Quoting Amanda:




Quoting Jaime:

Amanda, you can post all the study information you want about the known risks of drinking during pregnancy...that STILL doesn't negate the existence of benefits...and that has been my point from the beginning. You are spending time searching for facts that I already know exist...I don't deny that there are risks. You, however; refuse to give merit to any study that pops up discussing the benefits of drinking because you are stuck on a close-minded belief that it is wrong, wrong, wrong no matter what doctor or person might argue otherwise.

And are you really going to pick at the use of the word retard? It is a known term used to describe mentally challenged individuals...it's not, in its proper use, in any way an insult to people with mental disabilities but it has been so misused that hearing the word in a study even draws jaw-dropping reactions. The definition of the word 'retard' is slow or delayed. 'Queer' also means weird or peculiar...are you going to discredit studies using this term properly because of its recent fall into the category of prejudice against homosexuals?!







Jamie the point is that you asked for proof that there are negatives. did you even read the post? did you read the article captions? if you did you would see it states that even in moderation there has been proven harmful effects.








your problem is jamie is that you choose to ignore the facts because you are so keen on being right.








you can accept that you are wrong wrong wrong and the only comeback you have every time someone proves you wrong is to call them mudslingers.










Amanda I have never asked for proof that there are negatives, as I have known all along that there are with certainty---this is not the issue for me.  I have only ever asked for proof when someone makes a statement like "there are no benefits to drinking alcohol during pregnancy"...I have asked for proof because there ARE known benefits to drinking alcohol during pregnancy, so I want to know how they are so certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are none....and coming back at me with a list of all the risks is not proof that there are no benefits because it's all circumstantial as much as you choose to ignore that.  I read through some of the info that you posted and I also saw that it determined moderation as possibly one drink per day...perhaps this is not moderation for every woman that chooses to drink during pregnancy.  I will say again that I have not stated that I am right in any of my posts because I'm not trying to prove right vs. wrong.  I have been saying all along that I believe it is a personal choice and just because you believe it is wrong does not make it wrong.





actually you asked for proof about moderation, about 1 drink a week. I dont have the time to skim all your posts to find them. feel free to read them on your own time to recap your memory.



anyway I am done responding to you. there is no point saying anything to you because like I said. The sky is purple to you jamie. Your head is to thick to absorb any information.



I just wanted to see peoples opinions about this matter and was hopeing someone else would read it so they to can see that alcohol is not acceptable in any amount during pregnancy.



The problem with you condoneing it for any benefit is that you are giving pregnant women who want to drink a reason to drink.



Did you read the articles I sent you. I was most shocked in particular to the one about how alcohol stays in the placenta far longer than it stays in your body and so the fetus is just floating around in a warm pool of alcohol (not literally full of alcohol but you know what I mean, toxic amniotic fluid) I guess its the same as giving your baby a bath in a tub full of gasoline, or bleach.



That article made me really sad and if that one doesnt convince someone not to drink while pregnant than I dont know what will.



I am trying to bring awareness that this is a problem and you have proved me right. No one should condone this, no one should do this and no doctor should recomend it. You are right about it being a choice, there is a right choice and a wrong choice. The right choice is to ignore any benefit that alcohol may have because I am sure there are other things that can provide the same benefit like a warm bath for relaxation or red grape juice or non alcoholic beer for the things that are susposed to be of a benefit in beer.



The right choice is to look at the strong eveidence and supporting studies and articles that say there is no safe amount and to stick by it and to bring awareness to other women so they know.



Sitting back and stateing that it is not wrong for a mother to drink while pregnant says that you are turning a blind eye to the problems that have existed in our society since the fur trade. You want a prime example of what alcohol does, there it is right there. europeans gave alcohol to the natives way back than and they still have not recoverd. You want to see a society messed by alcohol abuse, come to where im from. We have one of the highest violent crime rates in canada, one of the highest teen pregnancy rates and one of the highest highschool drop out rates. Do you think that a coincidence? It is because of alcohol abues and poverty and it is a vicious cycle.



If people choose to turn a blind eye or to condone it than this cycle will continue.

Carly - posted on 05/03/2009

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I've actually had cravings for different types of alcohol during my pregnancy. I've cured the cravings by having one taste of the desired alcohol, and then being finished with it. (I've had a craving both for beer and Mead, a honey wine.)



I don't think that having one mouthful is going to hurt my child. I never was a "drinker" although I would occasionally have a beer or a glass of wine before I became pregnant. I do not, by any means endorse getting drunk though.



So, I think that one drink, here and there, is not a big deal. Don't drink daily, and don't get hammered, and I think you should be alright.

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~Jennifer - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Jennifer:




Quoting Amanda:





Quoting Melissa:






Quoting Jennifer:







Quoting Amanda:








Quoting Jennifer:









Quoting Melissa:










Quoting Jennifer:

Personally, I think that 'beneficial' is entirely the wrong word to have used in this thread. Yes, there are studies about the 'benefits' of red wine on heart health.....yes there are studies on the benefits of iron levels of low alcohol beers (ie: Guinness). Yes there are studies on the results of excessive drinking. There are studies for everything.

I think what should have been asked was whether a glass of wine or 2 a week or a low alcohol beer a week is harmful - period. Adding the word 'beneficial' just opened up a can of " I'm stuck on this one word" replies.

No one should consider alcohol beneficial. Enjoyable in moderation, yes, but beneficial? I don't think so. Alcohol isn't water - you don't NEED it to live, but people ENJOY it and therefore, make use of it.

Different people, different locations, different doctors, different opinions.

I can say though, in my experience, while discussing the upcoming Christmas holiday with my doctor during the last 2 months of my pregnancy, and telling him that I was not looking forward to the usual family drama, he did say - "If it gets that bad, you can have a glass of wine to relax - you're in your last trimester."



















YOU KNOW WHAT What questions that are asked do not go through you. My friend asked this question because in another thread people were claiming what this thread is asking.



























Calm down sweetie, I wasn't insulting you or your friend.  I said that it could have been worded better so as not to lock people into one specific word.  If you and Amanda feel the need to re-hash someone's replies to the Ice Cream thread by starting the topic over in a different one, that's just dandy - but we all know that she did it to make sure everyone else saw Jamie's replies.  We're (most of us) adults, we're not blind.


















Don't jump on my ass just because I said it could have been worded in a different way so as to not garner replies simply based on 'benefit'.   Stop and think 'debate' for once and not think "I must prove I'm right".   That's what adults do.
























Oh I just love it when people assume things. This wasnt about jamie or people seeing her replies. I actually was hopeing she would not reply to my thread because of HOW DAMN ANOYING SHE IS (opps guess im a mud slinger)
















This was posted because of something another gal had mentioned to me, I am not going to use names because she knows who she is. This girl had stated that it was BENIFICIAL which is why I chose to post the question as she worded it to me. I had never heard this before so why would I assume it was beer and wine they were talking about?
















And as for everyone thinking that I am sitting here pregnant and weighing my options this is just not true. I am not pregnant and if I were I would never weigh my options because there are no options. To me this is a no brainer, you just dont do it.
















I have been trying to get this girl some information about alcohol in pregnancy and what majority thought and have been told by health care professionals. I fealt that since she is trying to get pregnant that this would be helpful for her. I also genuinely wanted to know if there were any BENEFITS  so that I dont sound like a narrow minded jack ass who has not done their research.





















I've already read through your wall posts to others, as well as your friend's posts, just to see what kind of personality you have.  I wouldn't have made the comment without doing my own research first.  =)














You say that you have experience in dealing with children of FAS - and you certainly know where to find all the information that says drinking is unacceptable.   SO......if you say you're asking the question here AGAIN, trying to get different responses to what you already know and believe to be factual, it seems more like a 'pick a fight' session than a "trying to help' session.   I wonder if you could have just privately told the "other person" what you know and have let it be? 














Doubtful.














I realize that you are passionate about this issue - we all should be.......but  some things I've seen about 'calling CPS' and  calling people 'trash', or messaging them privately to tell them off.....?














Juvenile.














Why people can't just say what they want to say and move on is beyond me.  If you already know you're not going to change someone's mind, and you're not going to involve a person of authority to forcibly change them - why bother bitching?  Bored much?


















I bothered because unlike people who dont want any conflict I cared more for the child the person I was talking to said very dangerous thing but if you were on my page I am sure you would be able to see  the many scary reasons I did message her. I was wanting to help the persons child and yes I lowered my self to immature level I will admit that I am not perfect but it was not because I was bored actually I cried alot thinking about the child who is involved.















it is the children from these outcomes whom we are all concerned about. You dont know me jennifer so say as you wish. I have worked with special needs for 5 years now and I have worked specifically with children of mothers who chose to drink and use drugs during pregnancy for 1 year, (none of these children remained with the mothers, they were removed to custody) . It sounds as though you know who I was concerned about, even if a person is half a world a way if I hear about them neglecting their kids it hurts me and just as I would if they were in my community I said something about it.










I am not one of those people that turns a blind eye when someone is in  need or when someone harms their child but after many many times of trying to go about it in a nice way and to be laughed at and told I didnt know what I was talking about and than to be told that this girl was PLANNING another pregnancy when she allready has a special needs child it made me furious. because like I said, I do not turn a blind eye to the problems in our society.










When I became fustrated and mad that this woman was putting her child at such risk and seemed to ignore every piece of advice offerd to her  I used words that I shouldent have, that being said so did she.










Maybe if you were in my shoes you would do the same thing. I work with vulnerable kids on a daily basis, kids affected by FASD. Do you know what FASD is like? Have you ever cared fro a child with this disorder? Have you ever held a trembling crack baby in your arms? I have. This is why I get so mad. This is where my passion comes from and if it takes days and days to get my point across I dont care because at least I am standing up for what I believe in.










Our children, our future.










As for being boerd, no I am not boerd. I run a home buisness, have 2 kids study part time and go to the gym every day. I am not sitting on my ass all day thinking up ways of how to hurt people as you might imagine. I do genuinly care about this issue.












So, your way of 'dealing' with someone not listening to you is to insult them and post rotten things about them on a world-wide forum? 








Nice.








It's my understanding that the person in question had a child that isn't incapacitated, but one that was born with an espohogeal issue.  Is this correct?   Have you examined the child?  You know so much about special needs that you deem yourself worthy of publicly airing another person's diagnosis?   I wish I had such a psychic doctor as you.  It would certainly save on the wait time at the office.  Maybe it's just possible that you don't know what you're talking about.  Ever think of that?








Regardless of your 'feelings' on the subject, it's truly not your concern whether someone with a 'special needs' child plans another pregnancy.  I mean, really - someone has a baby that requires extra care, so they shouldn't  have another child?  Who gave you the right to make that decision?  Do you honestly think that someone who has a child that has to be constantly monitored by parents and doctors alike would fly under the radar and be allowed to keep a child if there were any signs of 'abuse'?








While you're adjusting your halo, let me tell you this.  I have a special needs child.  He had a stroke at birth because they couldn't get an anesthesiologist to the hospital for 4 1/2 hours when they decided that I needed a c-section.  There was a blizzard that shut down all the roads and although I made it to the hospital, the skeleton crew that was there did not include someone that could administer an epidural.   My son has cerebral palsy, epilepsy, cannot speak but 12-20 words at 4 years old, and is still for the most part, in diapers.   Oh, and did I mention that he's being tested right now for Autism, already having a diagnosis of PDD-NOS?  I'll go tell his little sister that she shouldn't have been born because I already had a special needs child, and apparently she's too much for me to handle.  Which one do you want to come pick up and take home with you, Saint Amanda?








That being said, as much as you say that I don't know you - you also don't know anything about the people you're ripping on in this forum.  If you took the time to think that it's not "Amanda's World" (it's Elmo's) and that there are some people that may be different than you, that you may not know the  whole story of, or that just may not express themselves in words in a way that is easy to understand the point they're making, you'd be a lot less 'angry'. You're not the only person that has a child around you with challenges.   The fact that none of the ones with issues are biologically yours still  doesn't make you the President of the "How to Care for Someone Else's Babies" club.  It just makes you another person  that should be at least sympathetic to the problems we all go through.  It does not, however, make you judge and jury on someone else's lif









so while you sit here insulting me let me just remind you that everything I said about melissa d was taken from her own posts. everything. and like I said , CHILD ADVOCATE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? it is someone who gives a voice to thoes who do not have a voice. The fact is that melissa d did drink while pregnant and weather it was because her doctor told her to or because her cousin bullied her to she still did it and she will naver know if it was her drinking that potentialy caused her childs health condition. she can not say for 100% certian because she did drink.  I wanted to provide her with information so she did not make the same mistake twice. I hope her daughter will be fine in the long run, hopefully she does not have FASD but if she does have it, ad melissa will not know until she is a bit older than that is melissas fault.






why are you getting all defensive? did you drink while pregnant? a disability caused naturally is compleatly diferent than one caused by drinking (and i mean diferent circumstances) I would not tell someone with a disabled child not to get pregnant again unless the disability was caused by the mother taking stupid risks, ie drinking while pregnant.






If I am ever caught doing something wrong as a mother I would want someone to come to me so I could fix it. This is about the kids and I cant sit by and let people talk about all the stupid shit they have done in front of me without saying something.





......and everything i've said about you was taken from your own posts, so how is that insulting you?   Apparently, I'm just pissing in the wind here, because you seem to have no ability to comprehend a post beyond the first few sentences....or maybe you just don't read them to the end?



I can't say for '100 % certain' anything about anyone's child but my own...so you know what?  I DON'T.  I can fathom a guess and make suggestions all I want, but at the end of the day, the truth is if someone doesn't want to hear something, they tune it out. 



For example, my first post on this thread included this paragraph :



 



No one should consider alcohol beneficial. Enjoyable in moderation, yes, but beneficial? I don't think so. Alcohol isn't water - you don't NEED it to live, but people ENJOY it and therefore, make use of it.



There's your answer to your posted question.  Unfortunately, one of your buddies only saw the part where I said the wording of the question could have been better and took it in all her immature glory to tell me that I don't get to pick what's asked - well I do get to respond to it- and I did. Nowhere in my answer did I advocate drinking during pregnancy. (comprehension again)  If neither of you liked my answer, you could have skipped over it.



.....Let's talk 'child advocate'  -  try re-reading the 5th paragraph in my last post, in case you didn't get that far last time.



.....You have no right to tell anyone whether or not they can get pregnant.....for any reason.



 



I hope you're never 'caught' (interesting choice of word) doing anything wrong, but should you be, and they start the lecture to you with "you ignorant '________' " , well, I'm sure that  won't bother you at all.....



 



I have an interesting suggestion.  Since you seem to like to start threads with other people's words, and are so good at keeping track of what people say, start a thread with this:



 



"PLANNING another pregnancy when she allready has a special needs child it made me furious."



Leave the rest blank, and see how many people jump all over you for your own words.  Then go back to them and try to explain what you meant by that sentence.  I bet you'll find yourself as misunderstood and in the same boat as the person you're so dilligently posting about now. 



 



 



 

Debbie - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Debbie:

First of all Joy, I am not being catty. I am entitled to my own opinion and freedom of speech. Do you know when you are pregnant the alcohol that you consume passes through the placenta and reaches you baby. This means when you drink your baby drinks. The impact of your alcohol consumption on your baby is far more significant then the impact it has on you. After all you are much larger then your baby and you are not in the midst of developing your lungs, brain, etc...Fetal alcohol syndrome is the leading cause of mental retardation. That is something that cannot be treated with medicine or something that has a cure. People say "my sister, aunt, cousin etc. drank when they were pregnant and their baby is fine". I say fine compared to what? The baby may be of normal intelligence, but what might it have been if no alcohol was consumed. The only baby you can compare it to is the baby it could have been if alcohol wasn't involved. With that being said, I ask you if the risk is worth a lifetime of regret?



I was called catty and told I was shoving facts down peoples throats.  THIS IS FACT NOT FICTION! If you choose not to pay attention or give credit to the studies that have been done, your being selfish when you pick up that bottle. 

Amanda - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:



Quoting Amanda:




Quoting Melissa:





Quoting Jennifer:






Quoting Amanda:







Quoting Jennifer:








Quoting Melissa:









Quoting Jennifer:

Personally, I think that 'beneficial' is entirely the wrong word to have used in this thread. Yes, there are studies about the 'benefits' of red wine on heart health.....yes there are studies on the benefits of iron levels of low alcohol beers (ie: Guinness). Yes there are studies on the results of excessive drinking. There are studies for everything.

I think what should have been asked was whether a glass of wine or 2 a week or a low alcohol beer a week is harmful - period. Adding the word 'beneficial' just opened up a can of " I'm stuck on this one word" replies.

No one should consider alcohol beneficial. Enjoyable in moderation, yes, but beneficial? I don't think so. Alcohol isn't water - you don't NEED it to live, but people ENJOY it and therefore, make use of it.

Different people, different locations, different doctors, different opinions.

I can say though, in my experience, while discussing the upcoming Christmas holiday with my doctor during the last 2 months of my pregnancy, and telling him that I was not looking forward to the usual family drama, he did say - "If it gets that bad, you can have a glass of wine to relax - you're in your last trimester."

















YOU KNOW WHAT What questions that are asked do not go through you. My friend asked this question because in another thread people were claiming what this thread is asking.
























Calm down sweetie, I wasn't insulting you or your friend.  I said that it could have been worded better so as not to lock people into one specific word.  If you and Amanda feel the need to re-hash someone's replies to the Ice Cream thread by starting the topic over in a different one, that's just dandy - but we all know that she did it to make sure everyone else saw Jamie's replies.  We're (most of us) adults, we're not blind.
















Don't jump on my ass just because I said it could have been worded in a different way so as to not garner replies simply based on 'benefit'.   Stop and think 'debate' for once and not think "I must prove I'm right".   That's what adults do.





















Oh I just love it when people assume things. This wasnt about jamie or people seeing her replies. I actually was hopeing she would not reply to my thread because of HOW DAMN ANOYING SHE IS (opps guess im a mud slinger)














This was posted because of something another gal had mentioned to me, I am not going to use names because she knows who she is. This girl had stated that it was BENIFICIAL which is why I chose to post the question as she worded it to me. I had never heard this before so why would I assume it was beer and wine they were talking about?














And as for everyone thinking that I am sitting here pregnant and weighing my options this is just not true. I am not pregnant and if I were I would never weigh my options because there are no options. To me this is a no brainer, you just dont do it.














I have been trying to get this girl some information about alcohol in pregnancy and what majority thought and have been told by health care professionals. I fealt that since she is trying to get pregnant that this would be helpful for her. I also genuinely wanted to know if there were any BENEFITS  so that I dont sound like a narrow minded jack ass who has not done their research.


















I've already read through your wall posts to others, as well as your friend's posts, just to see what kind of personality you have.  I wouldn't have made the comment without doing my own research first.  =)












You say that you have experience in dealing with children of FAS - and you certainly know where to find all the information that says drinking is unacceptable.   SO......if you say you're asking the question here AGAIN, trying to get different responses to what you already know and believe to be factual, it seems more like a 'pick a fight' session than a "trying to help' session.   I wonder if you could have just privately told the "other person" what you know and have let it be? 












Doubtful.












I realize that you are passionate about this issue - we all should be.......but  some things I've seen about 'calling CPS' and  calling people 'trash', or messaging them privately to tell them off.....?












Juvenile.












Why people can't just say what they want to say and move on is beyond me.  If you already know you're not going to change someone's mind, and you're not going to involve a person of authority to forcibly change them - why bother bitching?  Bored much?















I bothered because unlike people who dont want any conflict I cared more for the child the person I was talking to said very dangerous thing but if you were on my page I am sure you would be able to see  the many scary reasons I did message her. I was wanting to help the persons child and yes I lowered my self to immature level I will admit that I am not perfect but it was not because I was bored actually I cried alot thinking about the child who is involved.












it is the children from these outcomes whom we are all concerned about. You dont know me jennifer so say as you wish. I have worked with special needs for 5 years now and I have worked specifically with children of mothers who chose to drink and use drugs during pregnancy for 1 year, (none of these children remained with the mothers, they were removed to custody) . It sounds as though you know who I was concerned about, even if a person is half a world a way if I hear about them neglecting their kids it hurts me and just as I would if they were in my community I said something about it.








I am not one of those people that turns a blind eye when someone is in  need or when someone harms their child but after many many times of trying to go about it in a nice way and to be laughed at and told I didnt know what I was talking about and than to be told that this girl was PLANNING another pregnancy when she allready has a special needs child it made me furious. because like I said, I do not turn a blind eye to the problems in our society.








When I became fustrated and mad that this woman was putting her child at such risk and seemed to ignore every piece of advice offerd to her  I used words that I shouldent have, that being said so did she.








Maybe if you were in my shoes you would do the same thing. I work with vulnerable kids on a daily basis, kids affected by FASD. Do you know what FASD is like? Have you ever cared fro a child with this disorder? Have you ever held a trembling crack baby in your arms? I have. This is why I get so mad. This is where my passion comes from and if it takes days and days to get my point across I dont care because at least I am standing up for what I believe in.








Our children, our future.








As for being boerd, no I am not boerd. I run a home buisness, have 2 kids study part time and go to the gym every day. I am not sitting on my ass all day thinking up ways of how to hurt people as you might imagine. I do genuinly care about this issue.









So, your way of 'dealing' with someone not listening to you is to insult them and post rotten things about them on a world-wide forum? 






Nice.






It's my understanding that the person in question had a child that isn't incapacitated, but one that was born with an espohogeal issue.  Is this correct?   Have you examined the child?  You know so much about special needs that you deem yourself worthy of publicly airing another person's diagnosis?   I wish I had such a psychic doctor as you.  It would certainly save on the wait time at the office.  Maybe it's just possible that you don't know what you're talking about.  Ever think of that?






Regardless of your 'feelings' on the subject, it's truly not your concern whether someone with a 'special needs' child plans another pregnancy.  I mean, really - someone has a baby that requires extra care, so they shouldn't  have another child?  Who gave you the right to make that decision?  Do you honestly think that someone who has a child that has to be constantly monitored by parents and doctors alike would fly under the radar and be allowed to keep a child if there were any signs of 'abuse'?






While you're adjusting your halo, let me tell you this.  I have a special needs child.  He had a stroke at birth because they couldn't get an anesthesiologist to the hospital for 4 1/2 hours when they decided that I needed a c-section.  There was a blizzard that shut down all the roads and although I made it to the hospital, the skeleton crew that was there did not include someone that could administer an epidural.   My son has cerebral palsy, epilepsy, cannot speak but 12-20 words at 4 years old, and is still for the most part, in diapers.   Oh, and did I mention that he's being tested right now for Autism, already having a diagnosis of PDD-NOS?  I'll go tell his little sister that she shouldn't have been born because I already had a special needs child, and apparently she's too much for me to handle.  Which one do you want to come pick up and take home with you, Saint Amanda?






That being said, as much as you say that I don't know you - you also don't know anything about the people you're ripping on in this forum.  If you took the time to think that it's not "Amanda's World" (it's Elmo's) and that there are some people that may be different than you, that you may not know the  whole story of, or that just may not express themselves in words in a way that is easy to understand the point they're making, you'd be a lot less 'angry'. You're not the only person that has a child around you with challenges.   The fact that none of the ones with issues are biologically yours still  doesn't make you the President of the "How to Care for Someone Else's Babies" club.  It just makes you another person  that should be at least sympathetic to the problems we all go through.  It does not, however, make you judge and jury on someone else's lif





so while you sit here insulting me let me just remind you that everything I said about melissa d was taken from her own posts. everything. and like I said , CHILD ADVOCATE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? it is someone who gives a voice to thoes who do not have a voice. The fact is that melissa d did drink while pregnant and weather it was because her doctor told her to or because her cousin bullied her to she still did it and she will naver know if it was her drinking that potentialy caused her childs health condition. she can not say for 100% certian because she did drink.  I wanted to provide her with information so she did not make the same mistake twice. I hope her daughter will be fine in the long run, hopefully she does not have FASD but if she does have it, ad melissa will not know until she is a bit older than that is melissas fault.



why are you getting all defensive? did you drink while pregnant? a disability caused naturally is compleatly diferent than one caused by drinking (and i mean diferent circumstances) I would not tell someone with a disabled child not to get pregnant again unless the disability was caused by the mother taking stupid risks, ie drinking while pregnant.



If I am ever caught doing something wrong as a mother I would want someone to come to me so I could fix it. This is about the kids and I cant sit by and let people talk about all the stupid shit they have done in front of me without saying something.

Norma-Jean - posted on 05/06/2009

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Well, my aunt is a nurse and her entire job is fetal health and development, so I can safely say it is really, really not safe, in any amount. People do it because they're ignorant, and then say "well, maybe it's not sure" because they want to justify it to themselves after the fact. It's dangerous, and with modern medicine, there's no reason to risk it.

Amanda - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Jaime:

How do you come to the conclusion that because a woman enjoys a glass of wine in moderation during her pregnancy that she has a drinking problem? You might not choose to drink at all in your life, so you would likely not have alcohol when you are pregnant...but your style of life is not the same as another person's and as has been stated many times, culture dictates lifestyle. Your judgment is unfounded and does not add a shread of decency to your opinion.



Oh Jamire grow up and see the light. she said that if a woman craves alcohol, and NEEDS it to relax they have a drinking problem. Try opening your eyelids all the way when you read.



This is fact, through my studies of addictions I have learned that you dont have to drink everyday to be an alcoholic. A person can take 1 drink and be an alcoholic. An alcoholic is a person who drinks with a purpose, If you NEED to drink to relax you are an alcoholic. If you need to drink to be comfortable in a social setting than you are an alcoholic. Just because a person craves the taste does not make them an alcoholic but if you are searching for alcohol as a way to help you cope with something than yes you do have a drinking problem.



Now I know you are going to come back and contradict me on that because you just cant help your self but thoes are the facts. If you want someone else to tell you than please go ask one of the councillers at an alonon meeting. they will verify what I have said

Amanda - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Melissa:



Quoting Jaime:

(in response to Amanda): You quoted in your last post: "So far I feel confidendt that what I suspected to be right was. The majority of mothers in north america find it wrong to consume alcohol during pregnancy". I have to disagree with this, because if you go back and read the comments connected to this thread you will notice that there are infact a lot of mothers that, while they may not 'recommend' drinking during pregnancy to another mother (possibly because they aren't certain if drinking is even an interest for other mothers that they might know), they have admitted to having a drink or a few during pregnancy...so how can you suspect that you were right? Also, I find it hard to believe that any mother would be "for giving alcohol to babies"...a mother who has a drink or two during pregnancy is not in favour of giving alcohol to babies, she has made a choice to enjoy a drink or two and is perhaps confident that the amount she is consuming will not be harmful to her baby--in most cases I would say this is accurate. But there are always cases where mothers abuse alcohol and babies are born suffering the consequences of this abuse. And there are studies that suggest the possible benefits of alcohol (even during pregnancy)...so how does this all of a sudden become an 'excuse' for mothers to pick up a bottle? One person having a glass of wine to take the edge off of her pain is not wrong, especially if she enjoys wine as part of her lifestyle (culture plays a huge roll here as well). Trying to lead a discussion from the standpoint of an enormous lecture on how irresponsible you think mothers are that choose to drink during pregnancy, makes me wonder what your agenda is with regard to this forum. You don't appear to be seeking opinions, you appear to be seeking support for a cause that you are passionate about so that you can "stick it" to this person that told you that "everyone drinks a bit while pregnant" and her doctor told her it was okay. And Joy, if you are reading this post as I hope you have not decided to leave 'circle of moms', I respect your opinion and hope you will continue to fight the good fight. I am not putting anyone down on this thread, just trying to steer this debate in the right direction. Everyone has a right to be heard and I respect everyone's opinion...but Amanda you have to actually have an opinion and not just stand on your pedestal and yell at every mother that chooses to do something you don't agree with.





 






That is so very well said Jaime you are a smart lady. this was indeed posted to spite me as soon as i read this question i know she wanted to get responses agreeing with her so she could try and "show" me that she was right. you are very intelligent you should have a degree in phychology or something!






hey melissa glad you read the thread. I hope you have learned something from it before you go and get pregnant again. It was not to spite you and it was not to come out as the right person. Like I said before and I will say again, Seeing the effects of alcohol on a child I want to prevent FASD as much as I can. If anyone tells me the things you have told me I would be sending them articles as well, if I saw a pregnant women drinking at a bar or resturant you can bet we would have words, because as I sadi before our children do not have a voice and they are our future, they will be our worlds leaders and no offence to you and your child but I dont want my child to grow up in a world with a bunch of criminals and people with low iq's when that could have been prevented.



By the way, it is psychology not phycology. That is my currently dicipline.

Misty - posted on 05/06/2009

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I drink socialy although while I was pregnant I didnt touch a drop. I think that the no amount is safe during pregnancy that isnt based on any knowledge other than my own. I figure if no other medications than tylenol are safe during pregnancy then how can an alcoholic beverage be safe.

Chantel - posted on 05/06/2009

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As to the original post, I'm not a drinker really. Not that I never drink but I don't see it as a neccesity to having fun. I would never drink while pregnant but my doctor did say a glass of wine here or there (like at a weddding or whatever) wouldn't harm the baby. But he never said it was benificial. Really, alcohol isn't benificial to an adult, why would it be benificial to a baby?

Chantel - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Melissa:

i saw a post about the tests coming back negative and so this lady still kept drinking and then worried afterwards. im still late but my fiance made me do a test and it was negative so sice they are 99% accurate i feel safe to drink more amount of alchohol now over the weekend where as before even on my birthday my inlaws didnt understand why i would not drink more then one glass of wine



Hey Melissa, I just wanted to say about those 99% accurate tests. I took two of them that were negative before I finally got a positive result. I was 2 months with no period and 7 weeks pregnant. So I just wanted to let you know that those tests aren't neccesarily as good as they say they are;) Its your decision about drinking but I just wanted to tell you my experience with 99% accuracy;)

Krista - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Vannessa:

Everyone has an opinion. Thats fine, but until you live it you wont understand. I adopted a baby girl. She has fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. You dont have to drink alot to cause this. A few will do it. She has OCD, Sensory intagration, speech problems and immune definciancy disorder. She goes for OT, Speech, and behavioral therapy every week. All this is due to ( a few drinks). Wine may be good for your kidney and heart, but not your unborn child. My daughter will suffer for the rest of her life because someone thought it was okay to have an occasional drink.



Thank you for sharing your story.  More women need to know that the risks are real, and it's not just about their "right" to have a drink now and then.  I really don't understand the people that keep defending it! 

User - posted on 05/06/2009

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Everyone has an opinion. Thats fine, but until you live it you wont understand. I adopted a baby girl. She has fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. You dont have to drink alot to cause this. A few will do it. She has OCD, Sensory intagration, speech problems and immune definciancy disorder. She goes for OT, Speech, and behavioral therapy every week. All this is due to ( a few drinks). Wine may be good for your kidney and heart, but not your unborn child. My daughter will suffer for the rest of her life because someone thought it was okay to have an occasional drink.

Debbie - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Jaime:

Lindsey you should not have to sacrifice your entire life for your children...you need to be happy before you can ever expect your kids to be happy. Sure there are lots of things a woman can do to destress, but perhaps for some women, enjoying a glass of wine or a beer once in a while (moderation is key) is what might work for them. Alcohol is not the problem...alcohol abuse is. There are both risks and benefits to drinking this much we know...what we don't know is how to prevent overindulgence on a grander scheme. I know my limit and I have a very low tolerance for alcohol so I did not drink while I was pregnant and only had a celebratory sip at New Years. I know that drinking is not for me, but that doesn't make it wrong--and it certainly doesn't mean that someone that enjoys a glass of wine as part of their lifestyle is wrong for doing so while pregnant. Keeping the FAS rates down, begins with information and choice--if we take these away then we are taking away freedom---last I checked North America did not operate under a dictatorship!


This first line makes no sense to me at all.  First of all my kids are my life and I would sacrifice my life for my kids.  If I had to drink a glass of liquor to make me and my children happy then perhaps I should check into rehab.  You keep stating "know your limit and moderation"  what about the babys limits.  The fetus can't tell you "oh mom, thats enough I'm drunk".  I enjoy an occasional beer. BUT NOT WHEN I AM PREGNANT, because there is concrete evidence that it is damaging to a fetus that is in the midst of developing it's vital organs.  When you become pregnant, life takes on a whole different meaning. It isn't just about you and your happiness anymore.  I would make every sacrifice imaginable for my kids and if it means not drinking for nine months ,so be it.

Christie - posted on 05/06/2009

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I think its awful that mums would drink when preg, i cant see the point in potentially harming your baby for 1 glass of wine!

its only 9 months of your life where you have to be sensible and look after your baby surely your baby is more important than a drink!

Its each to their own but personally i would never touch a drink when i was preg!

Donna - posted on 05/06/2009

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Go do a search on fetal alcohol syndrome. Then if you decide to drink please remember to give the baby bottles of beer or wine instead of breast or bottle feeding.

If you think giving the baby alcohol after birth is wrong why on earth would you drink when you are pregnant?

Of course I don't drink now nor did I during any pregnancy.

Jessica - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Melissa:



Quoting Debbie:




Quoting Jaime:

How do you come to the conclusion that because a woman enjoys a glass of wine in moderation during her pregnancy that she has a drinking problem? You might not choose to drink at all in your life, so you would likely not have alcohol when you are pregnant...but your style of life is not the same as another person's and as has been stated many times, culture dictates lifestyle. Your judgment is unfounded and does not add a shread of decency to your opinion.








Oh Jaime, will you just quit it.  We get it!  You think drinking in moderation during pregnancy is ok.  You and the people who agree with your comments say that the majority is jumping all over your ass when you comment.  LOOK WHAT YOU JUST DID.  As soon as this girl gave her opinion, you jumped all over her and insulted her.  Stop commenting, we get your point.  CHEERS HONEY! 









Thanks Debbie everyone seems to think we are somehow internet bullies I am normally vey kind but it is hard to be kind in regards to some comments after all these are our children right?





I am not normally this upfont, it just gets to me that you cant voice your opinion without being brought to the slaughter house.  If we are not our children's biggest advocate....who is?

Lauren - posted on 05/06/2009

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when i was pregnant i was under the impression that a glass of wine is okay every once in a while but thats it. but even though i was told that, i didnt have even one drop when i was pregnant.

Jessica - posted on 05/06/2009

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Oh no, I drink....that is when my body isn't moonlighting as a carrier for my child. It was said in response to individuals who crave alcohol and cant abstain from it for 9 months. Don't know about you but drinking isnt a stress relief for me....it gives me a headache. I know women do it in moderation, i just happen to believe....based on studies....that you shouldn't do it. If god meant for our children to have alcohol he would have put it in our breastmilk.

Melissa - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Debbie:



Quoting Jaime:

How do you come to the conclusion that because a woman enjoys a glass of wine in moderation during her pregnancy that she has a drinking problem? You might not choose to drink at all in your life, so you would likely not have alcohol when you are pregnant...but your style of life is not the same as another person's and as has been stated many times, culture dictates lifestyle. Your judgment is unfounded and does not add a shread of decency to your opinion.






Oh Jaime, will you just quit it.  We get it!  You think drinking in moderation during pregnancy is ok.  You and the people who agree with your comments say that the majority is jumping all over your ass when you comment.  LOOK WHAT YOU JUST DID.  As soon as this girl gave her opinion, you jumped all over her and insulted her.  Stop commenting, we get your point.  CHEERS HONEY! 





Thanks Debbie everyone seems to think we are somehow internet bullies I am normally vey kind but it is hard to be kind in regards to some comments after all these are our children right?

Debbie - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Jaime:

How do you come to the conclusion that because a woman enjoys a glass of wine in moderation during her pregnancy that she has a drinking problem? You might not choose to drink at all in your life, so you would likely not have alcohol when you are pregnant...but your style of life is not the same as another person's and as has been stated many times, culture dictates lifestyle. Your judgment is unfounded and does not add a shread of decency to your opinion.



Oh Jaime, will you just quit it.  We get it!  You think drinking in moderation during pregnancy is ok.  You and the people who agree with your comments say that the majority is jumping all over your ass when you comment.  LOOK WHAT YOU JUST DID.  As soon as this girl gave her opinion, you jumped all over her and insulted her.  Stop commenting, we get your point.  CHEERS HONEY! 

Jaime - posted on 05/06/2009

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How do you come to the conclusion that because a woman enjoys a glass of wine in moderation during her pregnancy that she has a drinking problem? You might not choose to drink at all in your life, so you would likely not have alcohol when you are pregnant...but your style of life is not the same as another person's and as has been stated many times, culture dictates lifestyle. Your judgment is unfounded and does not add a shread of decency to your opinion.

Jessica - posted on 05/06/2009

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I can't believe that there are people out there that think drinking is benificial, or that drinking period is ok for your child. If you can't stop drinking for 9 months...and are craving alcohol...or even thinking of it as a pain reliever....I got two words for Achochols Anonymous. I know I'm going to get bashed for saying that, but if those are your beliefs then you have a drinking problem. Everything you put in your mouth and digest as a pregnant women goes to your child! Why would even consider it to be ok!!??

Mel - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:




So, your way of 'dealing' with someone not listening to you is to insult them and post rotten things about them on a world-wide forum? 






Nice.






It's my understanding that the person in question had a child that isn't incapacitated, but one that was born with an espohogeal issue.  Is this correct?   Have you examined the child?  You know so much about special needs that you deem yourself worthy of publicly airing another person's diagnosis?   I wish I had such a psychic doctor as you.  It would certainly save on the wait time at the office.  Maybe it's just possible that you don't know what you're talking about.  Ever think of that?






Regardless of your 'feelings' on the subject, it's truly not your concern whether someone with a 'special needs' child plans another pregnancy.  I mean, really - someone has a baby that requires extra care, so they shouldn't  have another child?  Who gave you the right to make that decision?  Do you honestly think that someone who has a child that has to be constantly monitored by parents and doctors alike would fly under the radar and be allowed to keep a child if there were any signs of 'abuse'?






While you're adjusting your halo, let me tell you this.  I have a special needs child.  He had a stroke at birth because they couldn't get an anesthesiologist to the hospital for 4 1/2 hours when they decided that I needed a c-section.  There was a blizzard that shut down all the roads and although I made it to the hospital, the skeleton crew that was there did not include someone that could administer an epidural.   My son has cerebral palsy, epilepsy, cannot speak but 12-20 words at 4 years old, and is still for the most part, in diapers.   Oh, and did I mention that he's being tested right now for Autism, already having a diagnosis of PDD-NOS?  I'll go tell his little sister that she shouldn't have been born because I already had a special needs child, and apparently she's too much for me to handle.  Which one do you want to come pick up and take home with you, Saint Amanda?






That being said, as much as you say that I don't know you - you also don't know anything about the people you're ripping on in this forum.  If you took the time to think that it's not "Amanda's World" (it's Elmo's) and that there are some people that may be different than you, that you may not know the  whole story of, or that just may not express themselves in words in a way that is easy to understand the point they're making, you'd be a lot less 'angry'. You're not the only person that has a child around you with challenges.   The fact that none of the ones with issues are biologically yours still  doesn't make you the President of the "How to Care for Someone Else's Babies" club.  It just makes you another person  that should be at least sympathetic to the problems we all go through.  It does not, however, make you judge and jury on someone else's life.






 





Hi Jennifer my name is Melissa, and i am the mum with the extra needs child that Amanda is talking about and posting to try and get back at me and hurt me because shes a nasty vindictive person who does not take well to any other views other then her own. in her book its her way or your a bad mum. i wanted to say thank you very much for pointing all of these things out. I am so sorry about what happened to you baby boy. i am sickened that she continues to spread this crap about me but right now im just ignoring it, im ignoring the direct insults and name calling as im not going to go and stoop to this level as ive said to her, she harrases me i really think shes just got too much time on her hands. shes even resorted to trying to insult my partner and what he does for a living when he is an electrician been in the field for 5 years almost out of an apprenticeship.



 



Im not a bitter person i try to get along with everybody and help as much as i possibly can. just to let you know a little about me im 20 years old, engaged and have a 13 month old tube fed little girl due to aspiration problems when she was little. she now is a fully healthy little girl whose only extra needs is the tube feeding which is because she doesnt know how to eat anymore due to being tube fed for so long and therefore has to be retaught how to suck a bottle and swallow her food. Because of my difficulties conceiving and wanting a 2 year gap between my children i have started trying for baby #2 already although i am trying hard not to get my hopes up. my little girl was planned i had her when i was 18 almost 19 and she is the best thing that ever happened to me and i look forward to giving her a sibling in the future. I was working til a week before i had her and got maternity leave but only went back to work for 2 months as i was too tired with all her constant feeding.



 



Another point you made was the fact that Amanda is not a doctor nor has she examined my child and as i have pointed out on many occasions has not been there from day one to see what has gone on with her. she then researches aspiration and tells me that force feeding my child (which is what the nurses and i had to do for a period of time) causes aspiration. My baby was born aspirating into her lungs and i have never heard of force feeding causing aspiration nor have my daughters health professionals ever mentioned this to me yet she continues to post all over here that i am someone who force fed my baby which can cause aspiration and seh justifies it by saying she is not saying that this is my daughters case and that she is just pointing out a fact. If this caused those sorts of problems i would be guessing the docs and nurses and dieticians would not have ever fed my daughter in this way and it brought tears to my eyes each time i saw them do it and it hurt me so bad to do it to her especially before she had her nasal gastric tube in she would have starved other wise. anyway im not going to go on any more about her previous health problems jst wanted to say thank you and introduce myself and am so very glad to see someone finally put this rotten lady in her place. i have sent a msg to the administrators and am hoping i get something back.



 



One other thing yes if i was abusing my child I am sure the hospital would have reported me by now considering the amount of time she spends in there and just to let you know she spread some rumours i smoked during my pregnancy and drank up to 3 times a week as well. Im so sorry about your son you sound like such a fantastic mother to him im glad he has you and im glad you have another little girl as well. im very much looking forward to having another baby girl or a little boy next time around and if brianna is still playing up with eating im sure the next bub can show her the way! take care xx

~Jennifer - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Melissa:




Quoting Jennifer:





Quoting Amanda:






Quoting Jennifer:







Quoting Melissa:








Quoting Jennifer:

Personally, I think that 'beneficial' is entirely the wrong word to have used in this thread. Yes, there are studies about the 'benefits' of red wine on heart health.....yes there are studies on the benefits of iron levels of low alcohol beers (ie: Guinness). Yes there are studies on the results of excessive drinking. There are studies for everything.

I think what should have been asked was whether a glass of wine or 2 a week or a low alcohol beer a week is harmful - period. Adding the word 'beneficial' just opened up a can of " I'm stuck on this one word" replies.

No one should consider alcohol beneficial. Enjoyable in moderation, yes, but beneficial? I don't think so. Alcohol isn't water - you don't NEED it to live, but people ENJOY it and therefore, make use of it.

Different people, different locations, different doctors, different opinions.

I can say though, in my experience, while discussing the upcoming Christmas holiday with my doctor during the last 2 months of my pregnancy, and telling him that I was not looking forward to the usual family drama, he did say - "If it gets that bad, you can have a glass of wine to relax - you're in your last trimester."















YOU KNOW WHAT What questions that are asked do not go through you. My friend asked this question because in another thread people were claiming what this thread is asking.





















Calm down sweetie, I wasn't insulting you or your friend.  I said that it could have been worded better so as not to lock people into one specific word.  If you and Amanda feel the need to re-hash someone's replies to the Ice Cream thread by starting the topic over in a different one, that's just dandy - but we all know that she did it to make sure everyone else saw Jamie's replies.  We're (most of us) adults, we're not blind.














Don't jump on my ass just because I said it could have been worded in a different way so as to not garner replies simply based on 'benefit'.   Stop and think 'debate' for once and not think "I must prove I'm right".   That's what adults do.


















Oh I just love it when people assume things. This wasnt about jamie or people seeing her replies. I actually was hopeing she would not reply to my thread because of HOW DAMN ANOYING SHE IS (opps guess im a mud slinger)












This was posted because of something another gal had mentioned to me, I am not going to use names because she knows who she is. This girl had stated that it was BENIFICIAL which is why I chose to post the question as she worded it to me. I had never heard this before so why would I assume it was beer and wine they were talking about?












And as for everyone thinking that I am sitting here pregnant and weighing my options this is just not true. I am not pregnant and if I were I would never weigh my options because there are no options. To me this is a no brainer, you just dont do it.












I have been trying to get this girl some information about alcohol in pregnancy and what majority thought and have been told by health care professionals. I fealt that since she is trying to get pregnant that this would be helpful for her. I also genuinely wanted to know if there were any BENEFITS  so that I dont sound like a narrow minded jack ass who has not done their research.















I've already read through your wall posts to others, as well as your friend's posts, just to see what kind of personality you have.  I wouldn't have made the comment without doing my own research first.  =)










You say that you have experience in dealing with children of FAS - and you certainly know where to find all the information that says drinking is unacceptable.   SO......if you say you're asking the question here AGAIN, trying to get different responses to what you already know and believe to be factual, it seems more like a 'pick a fight' session than a "trying to help' session.   I wonder if you could have just privately told the "other person" what you know and have let it be? 










Doubtful.










I realize that you are passionate about this issue - we all should be.......but  some things I've seen about 'calling CPS' and  calling people 'trash', or messaging them privately to tell them off.....?










Juvenile.










Why people can't just say what they want to say and move on is beyond me.  If you already know you're not going to change someone's mind, and you're not going to involve a person of authority to forcibly change them - why bother bitching?  Bored much?












I bothered because unlike people who dont want any conflict I cared more for the child the person I was talking to said very dangerous thing but if you were on my page I am sure you would be able to see  the many scary reasons I did message her. I was wanting to help the persons child and yes I lowered my self to immature level I will admit that I am not perfect but it was not because I was bored actually I cried alot thinking about the child who is involved.









it is the children from these outcomes whom we are all concerned about. You dont know me jennifer so say as you wish. I have worked with special needs for 5 years now and I have worked specifically with children of mothers who chose to drink and use drugs during pregnancy for 1 year, (none of these children remained with the mothers, they were removed to custody) . It sounds as though you know who I was concerned about, even if a person is half a world a way if I hear about them neglecting their kids it hurts me and just as I would if they were in my community I said something about it.






I am not one of those people that turns a blind eye when someone is in  need or when someone harms their child but after many many times of trying to go about it in a nice way and to be laughed at and told I didnt know what I was talking about and than to be told that this girl was PLANNING another pregnancy when she allready has a special needs child it made me furious. because like I said, I do not turn a blind eye to the problems in our society.






When I became fustrated and mad that this woman was putting her child at such risk and seemed to ignore every piece of advice offerd to her  I used words that I shouldent have, that being said so did she.






Maybe if you were in my shoes you would do the same thing. I work with vulnerable kids on a daily basis, kids affected by FASD. Do you know what FASD is like? Have you ever cared fro a child with this disorder? Have you ever held a trembling crack baby in your arms? I have. This is why I get so mad. This is where my passion comes from and if it takes days and days to get my point across I dont care because at least I am standing up for what I believe in.






Our children, our future.






As for being boerd, no I am not boerd. I run a home buisness, have 2 kids study part time and go to the gym every day. I am not sitting on my ass all day thinking up ways of how to hurt people as you might imagine. I do genuinly care about this issue.





So, your way of 'dealing' with someone not listening to you is to insult them and post rotten things about them on a world-wide forum? 



Nice.



It's my understanding that the person in question had a child that isn't incapacitated, but one that was born with an espohogeal issue.  Is this correct?   Have you examined the child?  You know so much about special needs that you deem yourself worthy of publicly airing another person's diagnosis?   I wish I had such a psychic doctor as you.  It would certainly save on the wait time at the office.  Maybe it's just possible that you don't know what you're talking about.  Ever think of that?



Regardless of your 'feelings' on the subject, it's truly not your concern whether someone with a 'special needs' child plans another pregnancy.  I mean, really - someone has a baby that requires extra care, so they shouldn't  have another child?  Who gave you the right to make that decision?  Do you honestly think that someone who has a child that has to be constantly monitored by parents and doctors alike would fly under the radar and be allowed to keep a child if there were any signs of 'abuse'?



While you're adjusting your halo, let me tell you this.  I have a special needs child.  He had a stroke at birth because they couldn't get an anesthesiologist to the hospital for 4 1/2 hours when they decided that I needed a c-section.  There was a blizzard that shut down all the roads and although I made it to the hospital, the skeleton crew that was there did not include someone that could administer an epidural.   My son has cerebral palsy, epilepsy, cannot speak but 12-20 words at 4 years old, and is still for the most part, in diapers.   Oh, and did I mention that he's being tested right now for Autism, already having a diagnosis of PDD-NOS?  I'll go tell his little sister that she shouldn't have been born because I already had a special needs child, and apparently she's too much for me to handle.  Which one do you want to come pick up and take home with you, Saint Amanda?



That being said, as much as you say that I don't know you - you also don't know anything about the people you're ripping on in this forum.  If you took the time to think that it's not "Amanda's World" (it's Elmo's) and that there are some people that may be different than you, that you may not know the  whole story of, or that just may not express themselves in words in a way that is easy to understand the point they're making, you'd be a lot less 'angry'. You're not the only person that has a child around you with challenges.   The fact that none of the ones with issues are biologically yours still  doesn't make you the President of the "How to Care for Someone Else's Babies" club.  It just makes you another person  that should be at least sympathetic to the problems we all go through.  It does not, however, make you judge and jury on someone else's life.



 

Jaime - posted on 05/06/2009

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I am glad that someone took the time to actually read what I have written. The original question asked was "drinking during pregnancy beneficial?", and I answered THIS question. When a person admits to the calibre of controversy surrounding this topic as they are asking the question, I feel that they should expect to debate the issue. I have not argued 'right' vs. 'wrong' because it is not that clear-cut and simple... everything we create on a sociological level can be measured on a continuum, whereby a majority of the social expectations are weighed somewhere in the middle of this line---this is the 'gray area' which often triggers what should be a healthy, respectable debate. I have not stated that drinking alcohol during pregnancy is right, and I have not stated that drinking alcohol during pregnancy is wrong because, not only is this not the question being asked, it is not a matter of right or wrong---it is a matter of subjective, informed choice. The fact still remains as I sit here and reiterate what I have already stated several times, that there are known benefits to drinking during pregnancy. I have found two articles on the internet that support this opinion and it should not matter that one was retreived from the site of a wine critics' review board because it contains several credible medical references from both doctors and journals. It is certainly a person's right to abstain from alcohol during pregnancy because they feel it is not worth the known risks. But, just as equally, it is also a person's right to indulge in an alcoholic beverage during pregnancy if they are confident in their decision to do so... one thing is clear in this debate and that is that no one knows for certain whether a person will suffer the risks or reap the benefits of drinking during pregnancy, so it stands to reason that there should be consideration for both sides.

Chrissy - posted on 05/06/2009

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I am a mother of three and never had a drink once after I found out that I was pregnant (three surprises lol).Yet I do know in other countries to have a small drink once a day, as in red wine and such, that is their norm. I also know up until the 50s or 60s it was not uncommon for a pregnant woman to have a drink. I also know women that craved beer during their 9 months. I don't think I would ever drink while pregnant because it would make me worry. I think to have a small drink is truly up the person as for benefits I would go to website of other countries testing and statistics.

Krista - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Angela:



Quoting Krista:

Wow...where I come from, a woman sitting in a lounge drinking a beer at 8 months pregnant would draw some pretty angry stares. I had no idea that in some places doctors advocate drinking in moderation during pregnancy. One of my biggest fears is that I'll discover that I'm pregnant a few weeks in and realize that I had had a few drinks before I found out. I would be so wracked with guilt for my entire pregnancy, and any difficulties that my child experienced, I would have to go back and think, did my drinking cause that?? I'm much more comfortable staying away from the stuff altogether...even while I'm trying to conceive. I think it's the responsible thing to do. Doesn't everyone want to give their child the best start in life?





While I agree with no drinking during pregnancy and there being no safe amount, it would make me really angry if, while pregnant I chose to drink just one alcoholic drink and received angry stares.  It's a personal choice.  Not a wise one perhaps but still nobody else's business.  What has society become when we all think that we have the right to impose our views on others?  Maybe that mum had a really really shit day and she couldn't get the thought of that beer out of her head for the last two weeks and it was really hot, etc, etc.  If the abortion argument comes down to "my body my choice" then doesn't the alcohol argument also equal "my body my choice"?  On a parallel note; my husband smokes and while I was pregnant he would ask me to pick up cigarettes for him.  I don't smoke and he didn't smoke around me, but whenever I bought cigarettes for him I would receive angry stares from the shop assistants and they would give the packs about pregnancy and smoking, or with the pictures of the really sick babies on them and it made me SO ANGRY!!  Who the hell are they to assume that the cigarettes are mine?  Even if they were mine who the hell are they to impose such a judgement?  I was so mad that I wanted to get a t-shirt made that would read: my body, my baby, my choice, my vodka, my smokes, your opinion: shove it.  I didn't of course because I agree with no smoking and no alcohol during pregnancy or breast feeding but the idea that other people thought that they had the right to lecture me on my choices (when they didn't even have confirmation that they were my choices) really pissed me off.






Yep, you can bet that if you were sitting across from me having a drink while pregnant (even just one drink...even if you had a shit day...) I would be one of the judgemental people glaring at you!  I certainly don't think that I have a right to impose my parenting views on others...but there are some common sense things (like how detrimental drinking during pregnancy can be) that I would expect other mothers to know.  I'm glad I live somewhere where drinking while pregnant is unacceptable.  I hope pregnant women get nasty stares and feel guilty having a drink...the less they might drink in the future.  You can call me judgemental all you want...because I DO judge women who choose to drink while pregnant!

Mel - posted on 05/06/2009

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and yes Jaime does cop it for no reason. I definately feel for her too! i have copped it from this nasty vicious person one too many times as well. hopefully one day she will decide not to come back on and save us all the trouble

Mel - posted on 05/06/2009

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Angela your so very right about the looks! while pregnant i got comments and looks while at the pub holding my friends drink , even though i was drinking orange juice! i mean of course drinking is ok in moderation but i was not drinking anything that particular night. i probably drank around 5 times in my pregnancy (after i found i mean) but each time i would only have about a quarter of a drink because i didnt want to risk it. anyway i feel for you with regards to buying cigarettes but ill also admit i too have been one of those judgemental people i worked on checkouts. i saw pregnant women buying cigarettes and it disgusted me although of course i didnt say it but i probably should have thought of the possibility that they may not have been buying it for themselves.

Angela - posted on 05/06/2009

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Poor Jaime, you are all giving her a very hard time. I haven't read all the posts because there are so many but she doesn't seem to disagree with anyone that drinking during pregnancy is wrong, she agrees several times. She's just trying to view the other side of the argument; even if the other side is wrong that doesn't mean that you shouldn't at least try to view it, that's what evaluativism is all about. Absolutism says 'black and white' relativism says 'everyone is right' and evaluativism weighs up ALL of the arguments and chooses the one that is the most logical/right/makes the most sense. I don't think Jaime is saying that alcohol during pregnancy is a good idea at all, I think she's just trying to view the other side to the argument, as little evidence as there may be to support it and as poor as that evidence may be, it does give you insight into people, so that you can understand them better and that is not a bad thing. Society needs tolerance, it needs thinkers and weighers and healthy discussion and from the few posts I've read Jaime is a thinker and a weigher and she persists in healthy discussion despite setbacks. That's commendable, not condemnable. I have 3 university degrees and in all of them she would be commended for her thinking and ability to try and understand the other side of the argument, especially when she doesn't agree with the other side of the argument.

Angela - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Krista:

Wow...where I come from, a woman sitting in a lounge drinking a beer at 8 months pregnant would draw some pretty angry stares. I had no idea that in some places doctors advocate drinking in moderation during pregnancy. One of my biggest fears is that I'll discover that I'm pregnant a few weeks in and realize that I had had a few drinks before I found out. I would be so wracked with guilt for my entire pregnancy, and any difficulties that my child experienced, I would have to go back and think, did my drinking cause that?? I'm much more comfortable staying away from the stuff altogether...even while I'm trying to conceive. I think it's the responsible thing to do. Doesn't everyone want to give their child the best start in life?


While I agree with no drinking during pregnancy and there being no safe amount, it would make me really angry if, while pregnant I chose to drink just one alcoholic drink and received angry stares.  It's a personal choice.  Not a wise one perhaps but still nobody else's business.  What has society become when we all think that we have the right to impose our views on others?  Maybe that mum had a really really shit day and she couldn't get the thought of that beer out of her head for the last two weeks and it was really hot, etc, etc.  If the abortion argument comes down to "my body my choice" then doesn't the alcohol argument also equal "my body my choice"?  On a parallel note; my husband smokes and while I was pregnant he would ask me to pick up cigarettes for him.  I don't smoke and he didn't smoke around me, but whenever I bought cigarettes for him I would receive angry stares from the shop assistants and they would give the packs about pregnancy and smoking, or with the pictures of the really sick babies on them and it made me SO ANGRY!!  Who the hell are they to assume that the cigarettes are mine?  Even if they were mine who the hell are they to impose such a judgement?  I was so mad that I wanted to get a t-shirt made that would read: my body, my baby, my choice, my vodka, my smokes, your opinion: shove it.  I didn't of course because I agree with no smoking and no alcohol during pregnancy or breast feeding but the idea that other people thought that they had the right to lecture me on my choices (when they didn't even have confirmation that they were my choices) really pissed me off.

Christina - posted on 05/06/2009

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I believe there is no way alcohol benefits a fetus. It may not hurt the fetus permanently, but it definitely doesn't help in any way. And not to mention the obvious risk of birth defects. It is hard enough to raise a healthy baby, why risk it??? Who ever says alcohol is good...they are probably alcoholics trying to rationalize getting drunk while they are pregnant. Maybe a person got lucky and there were no bad long term effects for that baby...each pregnancy is different. It upsets me that these helpless babies are left in the complete care of such careless people. I think it is healthy and good that you are researching and asking questions. Good luck!!!

Donna - posted on 05/06/2009

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Have you ever heard of Fetal Alcohol Symdrone it is the number one cause of mental retardation in children and is 100% preventable, all you have to do is NOT drink during pregnancy, the amount of problems that a child be left with are devestating... Sleep problems, eating problems, facial deformaties, bad memories, slow growth, some of the children will never be able to lead normal lives, if they are lucky they can be thought to do basic day to day thing like tie shoe laces or do up zippers. No doctor will tell you that drinking alcohl is benefical, if you want more information go to www.specialchild.com/disorders/FAS. Just so you know i am not a doctor, nurse or in the medical profession but i am a mother and a special needs assistant and see the effects of drinking during pregnancy in my job everyday.

Debbie - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Jaime:

(in response to Amanda): I did read the articles you posted with all of the information about moderation and the risks of drinking during pregnancy. I also noticed that you came across an article that discussed in great length, some benefits to drinking alcohol while pregnant, and some of the misconceptions about alcohol being dangerous to an unborn baby. I realize the article was posted on the website of a wine critics' review board, but I took a read through it as well and found that the author did some extensive research and even posted the names of doctors and the titles of the studies where they pulled all of their information. So for everyone that keeps asking me what I believe these known benefits are...take a read of these articles:

http://dovercanyon.typepad.com/women_win...

Also, with regard to me discussing the amounts involved in moderation, it had to do with the fact that moderation is different for every woman. When reading one of the above articles it also touched on this as well. I keep saying that it's not a matter of no risks involved, as the evidence is clear that risks are involved in drinking during pregnancy...but there are also benefits to drinking during pregnancy and as one of the articles I posted will also say, there is more research that needs to be done on the topic to determine if doctors should keep telling pregnant women to abstain or if this is not necessary under certain circumstances. As well, I will just reconfirm that I have not given any mother any kind of advice that suggests that drinking during pregnancy is okay...because it might not be okay for her (hence my stance on personal choice, lifestyle and culture). And I really wish that you could have a discussion without resorting to insults...it takes away from the credibility of your own opinion.





Advice from wine critics? they just want you to buy more wine, they make wine so if they tell you it is safe you will buy more.






1 fricken article was all I found supporting alcohol in pregnancy and it was poorly written and used derogatory words when refering to the mentally challenged.






It also said the only reason doctors told women to abstain was because they wanted to scare them.






I do not trust in that crap.






because you dont know how to leave shit alone I am going to close this thread. It is people like you that piss me off.






have to ruin every damn conversation and take up space on this thread . stop flapping lies. I dont have time to reply to all your shit.






opps sorry did I throw some mud in your eye.






Amanda, I googled in "is drinking alcohol benificial to your unborn baby" and I came across the same exact post from a wine critic site. That is the only thing I found.  All the other hundreds of thousand sites say"don't drink when pregnant".   So Amanda, I'm with you. When you ask a question of this nature you have to expect people from all different walks of life to respond and comment with their own opinions.  95% of the people on here agree that you shouldn't drink during pregnancy because the risk is just too high and there is CONCRETE evidence to back it up.  So with that being said, we can't change the minds of those people who choose to put their unborn child at risk.  I'll just pray that they make the right "CHOICE" next pregnancy around.

Mel - posted on 05/06/2009

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oh thanks Jean thats interesting. i was worried just in case but i have no reason to be worried now although ive never been that late before i know that it can happen when your stressed and Amanda kindly did point this out to me, and when ur trying because your sort of waiting and hoping every month., what i really need to do is what i did last time and stop trying

[deleted account]

Are we not out of high school yet? I started to read some of the posts on here but got sick of all the bitchyness after only a handlefull of postst! come on girls! We are suppose to support each other not attack one another!



Melissa: I just wanted to let you know that not every pregnant women will suffer from morning sickness (I don't know wether your aware of that or not, but wanted to let you know). When my parnter and i were trying for our son, one test came back inconclusive, took another one and it came back negative. The following month my period was late and I was pregnant.

Tahnia - posted on 05/06/2009

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Nine months is not a long time, why take the risk. There is no safe amount just because one person drank and their baby was fine does not mean that it will be the same for everyone.

Mel - posted on 05/06/2009

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i agree with everything you have said Jaime! Amanda posted this question yet she actually does not want to hear from anyone who thinks occasional drinking is ok and all she does is shut them down. she is too uptight to respect any body elses opinions and we do not need people like this on the site. its for supporting otehrs not shutting them down, and insulting them which is all she ever does. i do hope one day she is removed from this board so everyone will be so much happy. good on you Jaime

Mel - posted on 05/06/2009

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Quoting Jaime:

(in response to Amanda): You quoted in your last post: "So far I feel confidendt that what I suspected to be right was. The majority of mothers in north america find it wrong to consume alcohol during pregnancy". I have to disagree with this, because if you go back and read the comments connected to this thread you will notice that there are infact a lot of mothers that, while they may not 'recommend' drinking during pregnancy to another mother (possibly because they aren't certain if drinking is even an interest for other mothers that they might know), they have admitted to having a drink or a few during pregnancy...so how can you suspect that you were right? Also, I find it hard to believe that any mother would be "for giving alcohol to babies"...a mother who has a drink or two during pregnancy is not in favour of giving alcohol to babies, she has made a choice to enjoy a drink or two and is perhaps confident that the amount she is consuming will not be harmful to her baby--in most cases I would say this is accurate. But there are always cases where mothers abuse alcohol and babies are born suffering the consequences of this abuse. And there are studies that suggest the possible benefits of alcohol (even during pregnancy)...so how does this all of a sudden become an 'excuse' for mothers to pick up a bottle? One person having a glass of wine to take the edge off of her pain is not wrong, especially if she enjoys wine as part of her lifestyle (culture plays a huge roll here as well). Trying to lead a discussion from the standpoint of an enormous lecture on how irresponsible you think mothers are that choose to drink during pregnancy, makes me wonder what your agenda is with regard to this forum. You don't appear to be seeking opinions, you appear to be seeking support for a cause that you are passionate about so that you can "stick it" to this person that told you that "everyone drinks a bit while pregnant" and her doctor told her it was okay. And Joy, if you are reading this post as I hope you have not decided to leave 'circle of moms', I respect your opinion and hope you will continue to fight the good fight. I am not putting anyone down on this thread, just trying to steer this debate in the right direction. Everyone has a right to be heard and I respect everyone's opinion...but Amanda you have to actually have an opinion and not just stand on your pedestal and yell at every mother that chooses to do something you don't agree with.


 



That is so very well said Jaime you are a smart lady. this was indeed posted to spite me as soon as i read this question i know she wanted to get responses agreeing with her so she could try and "show" me that she was right. you are very intelligent you should have a degree in phychology or something!

Amanda - posted on 05/05/2009

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Quoting Jaime:

(in response to Amanda): I did read the articles you posted with all of the information about moderation and the risks of drinking during pregnancy. I also noticed that you came across an article that discussed in great length, some benefits to drinking alcohol while pregnant, and some of the misconceptions about alcohol being dangerous to an unborn baby. I realize the article was posted on the website of a wine critics' review board, but I took a read through it as well and found that the author did some extensive research and even posted the names of doctors and the titles of the studies where they pulled all of their information. So for everyone that keeps asking me what I believe these known benefits are...take a read of these articles:

http://dovercanyon.typepad.com/women_win...

Also, with regard to me discussing the amounts involved in moderation, it had to do with the fact that moderation is different for every woman. When reading one of the above articles it also touched on this as well. I keep saying that it's not a matter of no risks involved, as the evidence is clear that risks are involved in drinking during pregnancy...but there are also benefits to drinking during pregnancy and as one of the articles I posted will also say, there is more research that needs to be done on the topic to determine if doctors should keep telling pregnant women to abstain or if this is not necessary under certain circumstances. As well, I will just reconfirm that I have not given any mother any kind of advice that suggests that drinking during pregnancy is okay...because it might not be okay for her (hence my stance on personal choice, lifestyle and culture). And I really wish that you could have a discussion without resorting to insults...it takes away from the credibility of your own opinion.


Advice from wine critics? they just want you to buy more wine, they make wine so if they tell you it is safe you will buy more.



1 fricken article was all I found supporting alcohol in pregnancy and it was poorly written and used derogatory words when refering to the mentally challenged.



It also said the only reason doctors told women to abstain was because they wanted to scare them.



I do not trust in that crap.



because you dont know how to leave shit alone I am going to close this thread. It is people like you that piss me off.



have to ruin every damn conversation and take up space on this thread . stop flapping lies. I dont have time to reply to all your shit.



opps sorry did I throw some mud in your eye.

Angelique - posted on 05/05/2009

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alcohol is not advisable especially during the first trimester as this will affect the organogenesis. it does not give anything good to the body whether you are pregnant or not.

Jessica - posted on 05/05/2009

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When I was pregnant with my son I had about 3 drinks of champagne on New Year's Eve (6 months pregnant) and that is all I had the whole time I was pregnant....I have to agree with Carolee "Better safe than sorry"

Jaime - posted on 05/05/2009

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(in response to Amanda): I did read the articles you posted with all of the information about moderation and the risks of drinking during pregnancy. I also noticed that you came across an article that discussed in great length, some benefits to drinking alcohol while pregnant, and some of the misconceptions about alcohol being dangerous to an unborn baby. I realize the article was posted on the website of a wine critics' review board, but I took a read through it as well and found that the author did some extensive research and even posted the names of doctors and the titles of the studies where they pulled all of their information. So for everyone that keeps asking me what I believe these known benefits are...take a read of these articles:



http://www.jointogether.org/news/researc...



http://dovercanyon.typepad.com/women_win...



Also, with regard to me discussing the amounts involved in moderation, it had to do with the fact that moderation is different for every woman. When reading one of the above articles it also touched on this as well. I keep saying that it's not a matter of no risks involved, as the evidence is clear that risks are involved in drinking during pregnancy...but there are also benefits to drinking during pregnancy and as one of the articles I posted will also say, there is more research that needs to be done on the topic to determine if doctors should keep telling pregnant women to abstain or if this is not necessary under certain circumstances. As well, I will just reconfirm that I have not given any mother any kind of advice that suggests that drinking during pregnancy is okay...because it might not be okay for her (hence my stance on personal choice, lifestyle and culture). And I really wish that you could have a discussion without resorting to insults...it takes away from the credibility of your own opinion.

Carmen - posted on 05/05/2009

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No. Freakin'. Way. No. Alcohol. During. Pregnancy. Ever. Why take a chance? Alcohol is considered a poison for people who are *not* pregnant. Where did you hear that it was beneficial?

Amanda - posted on 05/05/2009

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Quoting Melissa:



Quoting Jennifer:




Quoting Amanda:





Quoting Jennifer:






Quoting Melissa:







Quoting Jennifer:

Personally, I think that 'beneficial' is entirely the wrong word to have used in this thread. Yes, there are studies about the 'benefits' of red wine on heart health.....yes there are studies on the benefits of iron levels of low alcohol beers (ie: Guinness). Yes there are studies on the results of excessive drinking. There are studies for everything.

I think what should have been asked was whether a glass of wine or 2 a week or a low alcohol beer a week is harmful - period. Adding the word 'beneficial' just opened up a can of " I'm stuck on this one word" replies.

No one should consider alcohol beneficial. Enjoyable in moderation, yes, but beneficial? I don't think so. Alcohol isn't water - you don't NEED it to live, but people ENJOY it and therefore, make use of it.

Different people, different locations, different doctors, different opinions.

I can say though, in my experience, while discussing the upcoming Christmas holiday with my doctor during the last 2 months of my pregnancy, and telling him that I was not looking forward to the usual family drama, he did say - "If it gets that bad, you can have a glass of wine to relax - you're in your last trimester."













YOU KNOW WHAT What questions that are asked do not go through you. My friend asked this question because in another thread people were claiming what this thread is asking.


















Calm down sweetie, I wasn't insulting you or your friend.  I said that it could have been worded better so as not to lock people into one specific word.  If you and Amanda feel the need to re-hash someone's replies to the Ice Cream thread by starting the topic over in a different one, that's just dandy - but we all know that she did it to make sure everyone else saw Jamie's replies.  We're (most of us) adults, we're not blind.












Don't jump on my ass just because I said it could have been worded in a different way so as to not garner replies simply based on 'benefit'.   Stop and think 'debate' for once and not think "I must prove I'm right".   That's what adults do.















Oh I just love it when people assume things. This wasnt about jamie or people seeing her replies. I actually was hopeing she would not reply to my thread because of HOW DAMN ANOYING SHE IS (opps guess im a mud slinger)










This was posted because of something another gal had mentioned to me, I am not going to use names because she knows who she is. This girl had stated that it was BENIFICIAL which is why I chose to post the question as she worded it to me. I had never heard this before so why would I assume it was beer and wine they were talking about?










And as for everyone thinking that I am sitting here pregnant and weighing my options this is just not true. I am not pregnant and if I were I would never weigh my options because there are no options. To me this is a no brainer, you just dont do it.










I have been trying to get this girl some information about alcohol in pregnancy and what majority thought and have been told by health care professionals. I fealt that since she is trying to get pregnant that this would be helpful for her. I also genuinely wanted to know if there were any BENEFITS  so that I dont sound like a narrow minded jack ass who has not done their research.












I've already read through your wall posts to others, as well as your friend's posts, just to see what kind of personality you have.  I wouldn't have made the comment without doing my own research first.  =)








You say that you have experience in dealing with children of FAS - and you certainly know where to find all the information that says drinking is unacceptable.   SO......if you say you're asking the question here AGAIN, trying to get different responses to what you already know and believe to be factual, it seems more like a 'pick a fight' session than a "trying to help' session.   I wonder if you could have just privately told the "other person" what you know and have let it be? 








Doubtful.








I realize that you are passionate about this issue - we all should be.......but  some things I've seen about 'calling CPS' and  calling people 'trash', or messaging them privately to tell them off.....?








Juvenile.








Why people can't just say what they want to say and move on is beyond me.  If you already know you're not going to change someone's mind, and you're not going to involve a person of authority to forcibly change them - why bother bitching?  Bored much?









I bothered because unlike people who dont want any conflict I cared more for the child the person I was talking to said very dangerous thing but if you were on my page I am sure you would be able to see  the many scary reasons I did message her. I was wanting to help the persons child and yes I lowered my self to immature level I will admit that I am not perfect but it was not because I was bored actually I cried alot thinking about the child who is involved.





it is the children from these outcomes whom we are all concerned about. You dont know me jennifer so say as you wish. I have worked with special needs for 5 years now and I have worked specifically with children of mothers who chose to drink and use drugs during pregnancy for 1 year, (none of these children remained with the mothers, they were removed to custody) . It sounds as though you know who I was concerned about, even if a person is half a world a way if I hear about them neglecting their kids it hurts me and just as I would if they were in my community I said something about it.



I am not one of those people that turns a blind eye when someone is in  need or when someone harms their child but after many many times of trying to go about it in a nice way and to be laughed at and told I didnt know what I was talking about and than to be told that this girl was PLANNING another pregnancy when she allready has a special needs child it made me furious. because like I said, I do not turn a blind eye to the problems in our society.



When I became fustrated and mad that this woman was putting her child at such risk and seemed to ignore every piece of advice offerd to her  I used words that I shouldent have, that being said so did she.



Maybe if you were in my shoes you would do the same thing. I work with vulnerable kids on a daily basis, kids affected by FASD. Do you know what FASD is like? Have you ever cared fro a child with this disorder? Have you ever held a trembling crack baby in your arms? I have. This is why I get so mad. This is where my passion comes from and if it takes days and days to get my point across I dont care because at least I am standing up for what I believe in.



Our children, our future.



As for being boerd, no I am not boerd. I run a home buisness, have 2 kids study part time and go to the gym every day. I am not sitting on my ass all day thinking up ways of how to hurt people as you might imagine. I do genuinly care about this issue.

Melissa - posted on 05/05/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:



Quoting Amanda:




Quoting Jennifer:





Quoting Melissa:






Quoting Jennifer:

Personally, I think that 'beneficial' is entirely the wrong word to have used in this thread. Yes, there are studies about the 'benefits' of red wine on heart health.....yes there are studies on the benefits of iron levels of low alcohol beers (ie: Guinness). Yes there are studies on the results of excessive drinking. There are studies for everything.

I think what should have been asked was whether a glass of wine or 2 a week or a low alcohol beer a week is harmful - period. Adding the word 'beneficial' just opened up a can of " I'm stuck on this one word" replies.

No one should consider alcohol beneficial. Enjoyable in moderation, yes, but beneficial? I don't think so. Alcohol isn't water - you don't NEED it to live, but people ENJOY it and therefore, make use of it.

Different people, different locations, different doctors, different opinions.

I can say though, in my experience, while discussing the upcoming Christmas holiday with my doctor during the last 2 months of my pregnancy, and telling him that I was not looking forward to the usual family drama, he did say - "If it gets that bad, you can have a glass of wine to relax - you're in your last trimester."











YOU KNOW WHAT What questions that are asked do not go through you. My friend asked this question because in another thread people were claiming what this thread is asking.















Calm down sweetie, I wasn't insulting you or your friend.  I said that it could have been worded better so as not to lock people into one specific word.  If you and Amanda feel the need to re-hash someone's replies to the Ice Cream thread by starting the topic over in a different one, that's just dandy - but we all know that she did it to make sure everyone else saw Jamie's replies.  We're (most of us) adults, we're not blind.










Don't jump on my ass just because I said it could have been worded in a different way so as to not garner replies simply based on 'benefit'.   Stop and think 'debate' for once and not think "I must prove I'm right".   That's what adults do.












Oh I just love it when people assume things. This wasnt about jamie or people seeing her replies. I actually was hopeing she would not reply to my thread because of HOW DAMN ANOYING SHE IS (opps guess im a mud slinger)








This was posted because of something another gal had mentioned to me, I am not going to use names because she knows who she is. This girl had stated that it was BENIFICIAL which is why I chose to post the question as she worded it to me. I had never heard this before so why would I assume it was beer and wine they were talking about?








And as for everyone thinking that I am sitting here pregnant and weighing my options this is just not true. I am not pregnant and if I were I would never weigh my options because there are no options. To me this is a no brainer, you just dont do it.








I have been trying to get this girl some information about alcohol in pregnancy and what majority thought and have been told by health care professionals. I fealt that since she is trying to get pregnant that this would be helpful for her. I also genuinely wanted to know if there were any BENEFITS  so that I dont sound like a narrow minded jack ass who has not done their research.









I've already read through your wall posts to others, as well as your friend's posts, just to see what kind of personality you have.  I wouldn't have made the comment without doing my own research first.  =)






You say that you have experience in dealing with children of FAS - and you certainly know where to find all the information that says drinking is unacceptable.   SO......if you say you're asking the question here AGAIN, trying to get different responses to what you already know and believe to be factual, it seems more like a 'pick a fight' session than a "trying to help' session.   I wonder if you could have just privately told the "other person" what you know and have let it be? 






Doubtful.






I realize that you are passionate about this issue - we all should be.......but  some things I've seen about 'calling CPS' and  calling people 'trash', or messaging them privately to tell them off.....?






Juvenile.






Why people can't just say what they want to say and move on is beyond me.  If you already know you're not going to change someone's mind, and you're not going to involve a person of authority to forcibly change them - why bother bitching?  Bored much?





I bothered because unlike people who dont want any conflict I cared more for the child the person I was talking to said very dangerous thing but if you were on my page I am sure you would be able to see  the many scary reasons I did message her. I was wanting to help the persons child and yes I lowered my self to immature level I will admit that I am not perfect but it was not because I was bored actually I cried alot thinking about the child who is involved.

Natalie - posted on 05/05/2009

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Quoting Jaime:

I am not arguing fact. I have not disagreed with the known facts about the risks involved with drinking during pregnancy. I have simply advocated for the belief that it is a personal choice and that it is not wrong to drink during pregnancy because there are known benefits to drinking during pregnancy.


I'm not knocking anyone who has a the occasional glass of wine towards the end of pregnancy, i myself had the occasional glass in my last trimester (I don't care whether anyone agrees with that or not) but it is down right ridiculous to say there ARE BENEFITS to drinking during pregnancy, no there isn't, and you sound a bit silly saying it to be honest, no baby gets any nutritional value from wine, beer or anything else, I'm interested to know what you think the KNOWN benefits are  ? 

Kimi - posted on 05/05/2009

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Wow lots of oppinions on this one... I don't think that drinking is in any way going to benifit anyone so why would it be a good idea to drink while your'e pregnant? Who ever made up this myth to begin with is obviously trying to justify her own choices. You wouldn't invite a toddler to have a drink with you so why would it be ok to drink while your'e pregnant?

User - posted on 05/05/2009

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As a Special Ed teacher, I did not take any chances while I was pregnant. I did not want to blame myself for something that I could have prevented. Having seen what alcohol abuse can do to children, I do not recommend drinking while pregnant. I do not know where the line is between "safe" and "sorry".

User - posted on 05/05/2009

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I am a qualified Midwife. the World Health Organisation recommends no alcohol during pregnancy and breastfeeding. The safe limit is not known and there are risks to alcohol, such as fetal alcohol syndrome. I have looked after babies who need to withdraw from alcohol. Even a small amount could affect brain development.

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