Ferber Method

Sara - posted on 03/02/2009

thanks for all the input ladies, I'm going to end this discussion now...I think we've all said what needs to be here. But, I would just like to say that the original point of this post was to point out that while yes, everyone has different opinions and one is not necessarily better than the other, there are ways to constructively criticize without being hurtful, mean or just stupid. I do realize that posting my feelings about a topic like this on the internet opens me up to all kinds of things, but I was just saying that I was sick of posting my opinion and getting accused of abusing or damaging my child. There's a lot of misinterpretation about what Ferberizing is, and before you criticize it, educate yourself! But more importantly, be supportive of other moms on here no matter what you have to say. We're all in this boat together and have a lot to learn from one another if we can get over the negativity and just share our experiences without the added pressure of thinking we're going to be judged. Best of luck to you all and thank you for your contributions.

Amie - posted on 03/02/2009

I know lots of people that do the cry out method. And there is nothing wrong with there babies. They are fine, healthy, loving children. I for one can't do it. I just can't I get sick when she cries to long. Some times I wish I could do the cry out method. I think that mothers know best for their children and them self. No two people are gonna do the same thing. I am sorry Sara that you feel people are not being supportive. I have read some post that I think should be deleted because they sound very rude.

Amy - posted on 03/01/2009

Quoting Barbara:

Quoting Amy:

Quoting Mary:

can anyone explain to me why an infant so young should learn to "self-soothe"? Isnt that what God gave them parents for and why they are so dependent on us? and how do you know they are "self-soothing" and not just "coping" with the fact that you're not giving them what they need? i am totally serious, im not trying to offend. i wonder how people who believe in CIO make sense of it.

And are you going to be there with a bottle when your child is 25 years old and can't fall asleep???  It's an essential thing to learn, is our point!  No one is telling you to do this, we are just saying quit knocking us for doing it!!!  If the baby is full, not sick, and has a clean diaper, then they are just crying to be rocked to sleep which is ok for like 6 or so months, but then they can figure it out or you nor he/she won't get any sleep.   Quit attacking people for offering advice of their own methods!!!  EVERY CHILD IS DIFFERENT, NO ONE IS SAYING "DO IT MY WAY"  we are just offerring advice when asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoa, Amy.  I don't think she was trying to offend, she just wants to understand your point of view a bit better.  It's curiosity, not an attack.  Why is it so important to learn to "self soothe" at a young age?  It's important to learn to walk and talk and use the bathroom, but that sort of thing isn't expected of children right away,  those skills come with time.  Why is it different at bedtime? 

And by the way, I coslept with my parents and was never left to cry it out, and I can assure you that they never had to come in with a bottle when I was 25.  I didn't need to be taught a thing.  I moved into my own room as a toddler without a fuss and slept alone until I was married.  I am an excellent sleeper, and can sleep all by myself without anyone's help.  Somehow, I figured it out without having to learn how to do it as a tiny baby.

my bad ladies, after reading like 5 thousand quotes, my eyes were fed up and i didn't finish reading the end of her post.  sorry i read like the first few sentances and was fired up after some other negative comments like calling it "child abuse"

my apologies...i don't like the attacking quotes either so I'll be sure to finish reading the quotes I comment on in the future...

Rhonda - posted on 03/01/2009

I agree with your method and feel the same way that others should not judge but suggest how they get through. I used this method for my son and now he has used it for our granddaughter. It worked great she is 18 months and tells them when she is ready for bed before they tell her. They laugh and say she has them trained. Just brush off those who don't understand and enjoy motherhood.

Jocelyn - posted on 03/01/2009

I did the babywise method with my two year old twin boys when they were 4 months old. They sleep wonderful and people constantly comment on how well adjusted they are and comfortable in any surrounding. Some of my friends who have co-slept or used attachment methods are still having trouble with children sleeping or being away from them. My proof that it works is my children. I firmly beleive each mother has to do what is best for her children and we should all support each individuals choices. I was probably a Mom who would have used attachment mehtods if doing so with twins wasn't so complicated. But if attachment philosophy is about creating a loving nuturing enviroment all the time how does that coincide with being plain mean to other Mom's?

Heather - posted on 03/01/2009

I agree with your point of view in 2 ways 1 i agree that this is a place for mothers like ourselves to get advice or to give what has worked for our own children. there is in many books backing up the cry it out methid first off many pediatric phyciatrists have found that this as long as (as you have already pointed out) you assure them but dont pick them up you come in and say its okay mommys here time to go to sleep i love you or something its not like your out in the livingroom letting your baby scream and never go in. I started this method to late with my baby girl shes 3 now and were fine now but when she was a baby everyone including her was miserable we all wanted sleep its not abuse if it was there wouldnt be back up from the medical field saying its right! Good luck and dont listen to those who are cruel they are just not being open minded to others including the medical fields expert advice. Good luck!

Heather - posted on 03/01/2009

I agree with your point of view in 2 ways 1 i agree that this is a place for mothers like ourselves to get advice or to give what has worked for our own children. there is in many books backing up the cry it out methid first off many pediatric phyciatrists have found that this as long as (as you have already pointed out) you assure them but dont pick them up you come in and say its okay mommys here time to go to sleep i love you or something its not like your out in the livingroom letting your baby scream and never go in. I started this method to late with my baby girl shes 3 now and were fine now but when she was a baby everyone including her was miserable we all wanted sleep its not abuse if it was there wouldnt be back up from the medical field saying its right! Good luck and dont listen to those who are cruel they are just not being open minded to others including the medical fields expert advice. Good luck!

Heather - posted on 03/01/2009

Don't feel bad that you are ferberizing your child. I do think that there's a certain time when it shouldn't be done. You should talk to your doctor about it. My doctor said I could do it at 6 months. I'm thinking 9 but we'll see how long I can handle my daughter sleeping in our room with us.

Kelly - posted on 03/01/2009

Quoting Jo: 

Women - all children are unique individuals and each will respond to differing parenting techniques. There are no right or wrong ways to parent, AS LONG AS you are meeting your child's needs and treating them with respect and dignity while you are doing it. They are human beings after all - even if they are non-verbal for a year or so, they still deserve the right to be treated humanely. 

"Attachment" parents respond passionately to Ferberising and Spocking and Baby Wising (otherwise known as Baby Trainers in AP circles) because they feel that these methods are not respectful of the child as a person (who is unable to meet his/her own needs, therefore is dependent on you as a parent to do so). Advice to not make eye contact with your child, or cuddle your child, or leave them outside in the pram unattended for a while (among many other things) are all suggested in these methods. If we exchanged our husbands/partners (or even our pets!) for our babies in these situations - and did not make eye contact, or cuddle them or left them alone (especially when upset) - how devastated would they be? And how damaging would this be to your relationship with them? So AP advocates wonder why this ok to do to our children?

There are extremes in every 'method' of parenting. Some children respond well to routine, so appear to do well with Ferberising (et al). Some children are on their own timing and routine just does not work with them. It is absurd to assert that all children require or respond well to identical parental interaction. Children are born with their personalities - they don't acquire them later in life! So, just as adults live according to their own rhythm, so too do children.

There have been some comments about 'teaching' children to self-soothe. I have never been able to understand this concept. We don't teach our children to walk or talk or ride a bike before they are ready - these happen naturally when they reach that emotional and physical stage of maturity. Why so is sleep so different?

We know (again - showing our unique-ness as individuals!) that some children 'sleep through' early on in life (some as early as six weeks) and others take longer. Just as some children walk at 9 months and others at 18 months. Why do we feel the need to rush sleep maturity? We cannot force our child to walk before s/he is ready - nor would we! We would consider this crazy! Yet - with sleep, it is almost an expectation (or heavens forbid - we are terrible parents - or we have a 'bad' baby!).

I think as parents, we need to find ways of interacting with our children that is respectful to both parties. If enforcing a routine works for you BOTH, then you've found a happy medium. If after days/weeks/months it is not working for you - consider this your baby's way of telling you to try something different!

To "parent for a peaceful world" (great book by the way, Robin Grille, author), it is essential that we treat our children with the respect and dignity they deserve. And at the same time - a little respect for each other as Mama's and parents. It's a hard enough job as it is, without defending ourselves from persecution at the same time. Instead of tut-tutting - offer a hand, a shoulder, an ear. Never assume you know what that Mama/Father is going through - or has gone through. For our children's sake.

Great advice and information!!

Katie - posted on 03/01/2009

Every time I have encountered a person who has used "cry it out" they have started off their experience with telling me how hard it was to hear their baby cry and they felt like they forced themselves to stay out of the room (or went in and didn't pick up or picked up and put back down, whatever), their baby cried for an hour, two hours, whatever.



My point is, if a technique goes against every natural parenting instinct then why do you think it's the best thing? If your baby is crying in a way that makes you want to go in and pick them up why would you think that you should do anything but? I just feel like Ferber goes against everything my body, my mind, and my instincts tell me about how to interact with my child and therefore I feel that it is wrong.



There is way too much we have to do as parents that will "help them in the long run". Why make bedtime another one of those things instead of an enjoyable experience. I one time left my son to cry himself to sleep. I went in every 10 minutes for 2 hours until he passed out from exhaustion. 10 minutes later he woke up and started screaming again and that was when I decided that my instincts overrule Ferber. 20 years of being a pediatrician does not make him more of an expert on my child's behavior then carrying, having, and being with my child almost 24/7 since birth has made me.

Nichole - posted on 03/01/2009

I to agree with you. If I didn't allow my daughter to sooth herself then to me I am taking a piece of her indipendence away. SHe needs to learn to do things on her own. I also didn't want to have to rock a 20lb baby to sleep and try my hardest to not wake them when putting them into the crib... I refuse to tip toe around like that. My daughter cought on quick that when she was tired she whines.... when she really needs me she lets me know with a very distinct cry. I thank the good lord above every day that it worked as I now sleep!! LOL

Deborah - posted on 03/01/2009

babies can only communicate through crying, they cry if something is wrong, they may be hungry, tired, hurting, or just needing comfort and reassurance, if these needs are not met, they will continue to cry, often, until they fall aseep.

Melissa - posted on 03/01/2009

I have used this method with both of my children, and they are WONDERFUL sleepers!  My oldest is 11, and I started letting him "cry it out" when he was about 7 months old.  By the time he was 13 or 14 months, he would actually get his bear and stand in his doorway and look at you, letting you know he was ready for bed!  The baby is 13 months, and it took less than a week to get him to fall asleep on his own when I stopped nursing him.  Now if he's getting cranky, I ask him if he's ready for "nuhnight," and he shakes his head yes; I take him in and lay him down, and he rolls right over and grabs his blanket. 

You can't harm your child by teaching them to be a little independent.  You can, however, harm your child by locking him in his room at bedtime, or making him so dependent on you for everything, including help to fall asleep, that he can't function without you. 

Melissa - posted on 03/01/2009

I have used this method with both of my children, and they are WONDERFUL sleepers!  My oldest is 11, and I started letting him "cry it out" when he was about 7 months old.  By the time he was 13 or 14 months, he would actually get his bear and stand in his doorway and look at you, letting you know he was ready for bed!  The baby is 13 months, and it took less than a week to get him to fall asleep on his own when I stopped nursing him.  Now if he's getting cranky, I ask him if he's ready for "nuhnight," and he shakes his head yes; I take him in and lay him down, and he rolls right over and grabs his blanket. 

You can't harm your child by teaching them to be a little independent.  You can, however, harm your child by locking him in his room at bedtime, or making him so dependent on you for everything, including help to fall asleep, that he can't function without you. 

Melissa - posted on 03/01/2009

I have used this method with both of my children, and they are WONDERFUL sleepers!  My oldest is 11, and I started letting him "cry it out" when he was about 7 months old.  By the time he was 13 or 14 months, he would actually get his bear and stand in his doorway and look at you, letting you know he was ready for bed!  The baby is 13 months, and it took less than a week to get him to fall asleep on his own when I stopped nursing him.  Now if he's getting cranky, I ask him if he's ready for "nuhnight," and he shakes his head yes; I take him in and lay him down, and he rolls right over and grabs his blanket. 

You can't harm your child by teaching them to be a little independent.  You can, however, harm your child by locking him in his room at bedtime, or making him so dependent on you for everything, including help to fall asleep, that he can't function without you. 

Jane - posted on 03/01/2009

I am new here so don't know the history of the posts involved. I do feel deeply that both the Ferber Method and Cry It Out are cruel. Does it harm children? I have no idea! That entirely depends on the individual situation and the amount of security that child feels otherwise! But nothing can change my opinion that the idea that young babies need to learn to soothe themselves is wrong headed.

Heather - posted on 03/01/2009

i totally agree. i used a cry it out method. now, my daughter is a happy, well adjusted 7 month old. i think that you should find a method that works best for you and your child, but not judge a different method used by someone else.

Naomi - posted on 03/01/2009

Wow i'm reading all of these post and i don't quite know what to say. I live in Australia and i have never heared of the "Feber" method. What i do know about is the idea of letting your child learn how to put them selfs to sleep. My sister is a child psycologist and say that its not a good idea to leave you child to cry them selfs to sleep for more than about 5/10 mins at a time. you go in pop your hand on they back shsh them and then walk out again.  But we are taking about babys over 5/6 months. As for my own experances i have 3 boys 6/3/2 i did the crying  it out method with all of them. They all share a room and are all in bed and asleep by 7pm. (ok they are up by 6am.)  So many of my friends come to me and ask how do i do it? why is my child still up at 9pm, 10 pm? why is my child a little shit at school. Kids need sleep and we need to teach them how to do it. yes it is hard to hear your child cry. but are they crying because they are in distress or because they are really tired and don't know how to express that. quite often babys cry to unwind and by interupting that process by cuddling picking them up it prolongs it.

you know what, basicely its what ever works for you and your child.  If AP works for you then great i personly would go mad with the idea. It is better to have a happy mother than a "AP" or "CIO" baby ect. If the mom  is going mad then nothing is going to work right. 

I just can't believe how aggresive people can be. Calling someone a "child abuser" because of the method they use to teach they child to sleep just blows my mind. 

I hope that what ever method you chose works for you and everyone gets a good nights sleep. 

On that note i will be going to sleep myself as all my boys where asleep 4 hours ago.

Jo - posted on 03/01/2009

Women - all children are unique individuals and each will respond to differing parenting techniques. There are no right or wrong ways to parent, AS LONG AS you are meeting your child's needs and treating them with respect and dignity while you are doing it. They are human beings after all - even if they are non-verbal for a year or so, they still deserve the right to be treated humanely.



"Attachment" parents respond passionately to Ferberising and Spocking and Baby Wising (otherwise known as Baby Trainers in AP circles) because they feel that these methods are not respectful of the child as a person (who is unable to meet his/her own needs, therefore is dependent on you as a parent to do so). Advice to not make eye contact with your child, or cuddle your child, or leave them outside in the pram unattended for a while (among many other things) are all suggested in these methods. If we exchanged our husbands/partners (or even our pets!) for our babies in these situations - and did not make eye contact, or cuddle them or left them alone (especially when upset) - how devastated would they be? And how damaging would this be to your relationship with them? So AP advocates wonder why this ok to do to our children?



There are extremes in every 'method' of parenting. Some children respond well to routine, so appear to do well with Ferberising (et al). Some children are on their own timing and routine just does not work with them. It is absurd to assert that all children require or respond well to identical parental interaction. Children are born with their personalities - they don't acquire them later in life! So, just as adults live according to their own rhythm, so too do children.



There have been some comments about 'teaching' children to self-soothe. I have never been able to understand this concept. We don't teach our children to walk or talk or ride a bike before they are ready - these happen naturally when they reach that emotional and physical stage of maturity. Why so is sleep so different?



We know (again - showing our unique-ness as individuals!) that some children 'sleep through' early on in life (some as early as six weeks) and others take longer. Just as some children walk at 9 months and others at 18 months. Why do we feel the need to rush sleep maturity? We cannot force our child to walk before s/he is ready - nor would we! We would consider this crazy! Yet - with sleep, it is almost an expectation (or heavens forbid - we are terrible parents - or we have a 'bad' baby!).



I think as parents, we need to find ways of interacting with our children that is respectful to both parties. If enforcing a routine works for you BOTH, then you've found a happy medium. If after days/weeks/months it is not working for you - consider this your baby's way of telling you to try something different!



To "parent for a peaceful world" (great book by the way, Robin Grille, author), it is essential that we treat our children with the respect and dignity they deserve. And at the same time - a little respect for each other as Mama's and parents. It's a hard enough job as it is, without defending ourselves from persecution at the same time. Instead of tut-tutting - offer a hand, a shoulder, an ear. Never assume you know what that Mama/Father is going through - or has gone through. For our children's sake.

Lisa - posted on 03/01/2009

Absolutely. Every child is different and it's the right of that child's parents to do what they feel is best, obviously as long as it doesn't harm the little one. I tried the Ferber method with my daughter for a while and she did not cope well with it at all and she didn't get any better with it so I chose not to continue with that method. I didn't feel at any point that she was feeling abandoned even though I chose not to follow through with this method in the end. I have been effectively "told off" by family, friends and nurses for rocking my daughter to sleep if she is unsettled but as far as I'm concerned, none of them are here with her all day, everyday, I'm her mother and I know what I feel comfortable with and therefore, how I put my daughter to sleep is up to me. If the ferber method works for you and your baby, that's excellent and I don't see how anyone has the right to condemn that decision, Sara. Good on you for sticking to your guns. Mums are going through enough (sleep deprivation, hormones, all the new decisions that have to be made, adjusting or re-adjusting to having a little baby to look after) without being told off by total strangers.

Kim - posted on 02/28/2009

I totally agree on all your points!!! It is up to each and every parent on how they want to raise their children!

I was a lucky mum where my son refused to go to sleep while I was holding him. I simply place him in his bed and walk out! Sometimes he cries out for 10 minutes but he doesnt become terribly upset! But he is a pain to take any where as he is really difficult to put to sleep! DO WHAT YOU AND YOUR BABY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH!!! No one else has to put up with it!!!

Kelly - posted on 02/28/2009

With parenting, trust your gut over a book or theory or person. If it upsets you and feels 'wrong', it usually is. Take the books/theories etc with a grain of salt and come up with your own solution.

Kelly - posted on 02/28/2009

As the parent to your child you are the expert on caring for them. You are doing what's best for them.

I disagree with crying it out for many reasons and choose not to do it for my own child. The alternative methods are very difficult though, so people who choose NOT to do it are not necessarily taking the easy way out.

I suggest looking into the works of Aletha Solter as her method involves crying in arms. Where the child has the opportunity to express tension/tears/anger before bed but the parent is always present. Her theories have worked very well for our little girl.

Deborah - posted on 02/28/2009

just quickly, i keep seeing posts about "my parents used the ferber method with me"

when was this method first "put out there" for us to use?

is this "ferber" even still alive?

is Harvard a place i could get trustworthy information,

or should i just take Ferber's word for it? who do you believe?

Danielle - posted on 02/28/2009

You obviously feel very strongly about this.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions for or against however.  I don't think that it is a measure of cruelty.  But perhaps we all just chill a little and don't take others comments so much to heart.  We all know our children better than anyone.

Deborah - posted on 02/28/2009

just quickly, i keep seeing posts about "my parents used the ferber method with me"

when was this method first "put out there" for us to use?

is this "ferber" even still alive?

is Harvard a place i could get trustworthy information,

or should i just take Ferber's word for it? who do you believe?

Deborah - posted on 02/28/2009

Quoting Guggie:

I'm sorry to hear that you feel attacked. Parenting is hard enough without feeling ambushed by others. None of us are perfect. We are all trying to learn more and do the best we can for our children.

Have you read what the researchers from Harvard have to say about cry it out methods?

 

Quote:

Harvard Researchers Say Children Need Touching and Attention by Alvin Powell, Contributing Writer, Harvard Gazette America's "let them cry" attitude toward children may lead to more fears and tears among adults, according to two Harvard Medical School researchers. Instead of letting infants cry, American parents should keep their babies close, console them when they cry, and bring them to bed with them, where they'll feel safe, according to Michael Commons and Patrice Miller, researchers at the Medical School's Department of Psychiatry.

You can find the article in its entirety

Cry It Out: The Potential Dangers of Leaving Your Baby to Cry

Quote:

The child stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated. ...an abundance of research shows that regular physical contact, reassurance, and prompt responses to distress in infancy and childhood results in secure and confident adults who are better able to form functional relationships. ... Infants, quite helpless without the aid of their caregivers, may suffer both emotional and physical consequences of this type of attitude.

CIO? No! The case for not using "cry-it-out" with your children

Quote:

Most advocates of CIO do acknowledge that it is cruel, but somehow nullify this by insisting that it is really in the child's best interests. It is NOT in the child's best interests! Even Australia's biggest teacher of "controlled crying", Dr. Christopher Green, admits in his book, Babies, that it would be ideal if children could have the comfort of their parents around the clock!

Deborah - posted on 02/28/2009

you are so very very correct.

i have super strong feelings on this as i have 5 children. my first 3 were routine babies, i swaddled my second and third. i never had a problem with any of them "whinging" for a while.

my 4th was and still is the perfect child, just goes to bed and off to sleep when he gets tired, only wants me when he wakes up,...

when i had no. 5, i went straight into routine mode, & tried to teach him to self settle, the problem is, every single time he cries, he stops breathing and has seizures, as a result, i have become an "attatchment parenter"...( apparently the most despised type of parent, according to this thread!)

i cannot let him cry EVER for fear that he wont start breathing again!

i was all for self settling until i found myself on the other side of the fence,



now, ive been a mother for 15yrs and i am disgusted at some peoples attitudes and comments in, not just this thread, but most that i have been reading.

dont judge till youve been in the position yourself.





this community was supposed to be a support group for mums, a place to get advice and support from others experiencing the same problems. not somewhere to post a thread that deliberately causes negative comments and arguments.



i am no longer sure i want to be a part of such a community.



the woman who started this thread did so, out of anger, to get back at some other mum who made negative comments to her about her choice to make her child "cry it out" , she then wanted to be backed up in her choice and have negatve comments towards those who choose A/P.

im personally sick to death of everyone putting down others that make different choices.

Man, i left school 15 yrs ago, im over schoolyard fighting!

Constance - posted on 02/28/2009

Quoting Shannon:

Just like every parent is different, so is every child. With my first daughter we used the cry it out method with discretion because that is what worked best for her. I think everyone has a different opinion because it may or may not of worked for thier child or seemed abusive because thier baby may of been more demanding. I now have a 3 month old whom is very demanding and wants to be held all the time. Same parenting techniques different child. It is alot harder to put this one down for the cry it out because it simply is not for her. She is secure with the fact of being close to you for sleeping. So she co-sleeps better than on her own and guess what she sleeps through the night in her own crib just like every other baby. So two children completely different personalities, different techniques, same parents, same outcome. I think that if you care enough to post your feelings about your children than you obviously love them well beyond any abusive parent. I feel bad that you have to experience such judgemental people. Lets leave the words abuse for those who actually purposely abuse thier children and not accuse any one parent of such cruelty. Lets define what some people are accusing this poor mother of "Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse, or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm" SERIOUS should be the key word that is looked at. These definitions come straight from child welfare. Physical abuse is generally defined as "any nonaccidental physical injury to the child" and can include striking, kicking, burning, or biting the child, or any action that results in a physical impairment of the child. In approximately 36 States and American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands, the definition of abuse also includes acts or circumstances that threaten the child with harm or create a substantial risk of harm to the child's health or welfare. Neglect is frequently defined in terms of deprivation of adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or supervision. Approximately 21 States and American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands include failure to educate the child as required by law in their definition of neglect. Seven States further define medical neglect as failing to provide any special medical treatment or mental health care needed by the child. In addition, four States define as medical neglect the withholding of medical treatment or nutrition from disabled infants with life-threatening conditions. No where in here does it say if you chose to teach your child that there is life outside of mommy you are abusive.

Thank you, Shannon, for the reminder of the actual definition of legal child abuse in the U.S. When it comes to emotional matters, we often lose site of the actual matter at hand. In this case, it's, "What is the best way for me to put my chiild to bed?"

It is very obvious that many of the women posting on this thread have very strong personal feelings about what is the right or wrong way to put one's child to sleep at night or nap time. Truthfully, each child is different, yes, and so is every mom. Moms, you need to do what is best for you and your families, while not in violation of the law. Other moms may or may not agree with what you are doing, but that's OK...because what you are doing is right for you and your family, not some other woman and her family.

Reading through the posts here I noticed much anger associated with this topic. Often the phrase, "I'm sorry, but..." has been used. Every time "I'm sorry" is followed with the word, "but," the apology is negated. Why even bother apologizing?

Ladies, are we not a sisterhood of women? Are we not here to provide encouragement and support for one another? Why is there so much anger associated with this topic? Sisters, if what is working for you isn't a problem for you and your familiy, and it's not a problem with the law, then it's really not anybody else's business. Take it with a grain of salt.

Tara - posted on 02/28/2009

I agree with Julene! we are here to support each other, get information and just talk about things we are doing/learning. There is no need to be judgemental or make other mom's feel bad. I just started the CIO method a week ago, mainly for naps and wow what a POSITIVE difference. He is much more happier in his wakeful hours then before, as before he was so OVERTIRED and fighting sleep. I started to put him in his crib at first signs of tiredness and yes he would protest cry. Most times he doesn't cry at all or he cries for under 5 mins. Other times I would go in after 5 mins to soothe him, then 10 etc. If after 1/2hr he is still not sleeping then I would pick him up as he isn't ready just yet for his nap. Then I would try again in about 20 mins and he would fall asleep. At night now I can do my usual night routine and put him in his crib still awake and he goes right to sleep, this is wonderful! Before doing all of this I would rock him for an hour or even longer until fully asleep and put him down and he would wake up crying, would do this over and over sometimes 5 times. Very tiresome and frustrating. So why is it that he now goes to sleep so much better? because he knows it's time for bed, see's me putting him to bed and knows it's okay, whereas before he would wake up and I would be gone and he had no idea what was going on. I don't know, I think people need to keep an open positive mind. This is NOT abuse and that is such a horrible thing to say as I give him unconditional love ALWAYS and NO one has a right to ever say something like that to a person just for using the CIO method. Seriously! My son is 5 months old, he is happy, laughing AND getting proper sleep that he needs and I do not see how that is wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course however there is no need to say that it's abusive etc...say you disagree. Not all parents or babies are the same. We try things that work and what works best we stick with. I have read up on all kinds of ways, good/bad and that is exactly it, research can be refuted by other research!

Julene - posted on 02/28/2009

I'm glad some other people feel the posts by some mom's are destructive and mean-spirited rather than helpful advice. I think some things are blatantly abusive, but what sleep method you use should not be characterized as such. It is not as if CIO parents are beating their children, starving them or anything else abusive. They are making a decision to help them learn healthy sleep habits. Not everything in parenting feels good, for instance, disciplining your child does not always result in a parent feeling good at that moment, it is hardwork. But if done consistently and out of love, the result will be good and rewarding both for the parent and the child. If parents only do what makes them feel good in the moment, then there will be a lack of discipline and the result will not be good for the child or the parent. There is lots of research out there and most of it can be refuted by other research. I think mom's that feel so strongly about it need to check their motives, are they just trying to make themselves feel better about their decisions by putting other mom's down?

Misty - posted on 02/28/2009

Sara,

People have the right to let you know how they feel about the method of parenting that you have chosen (especially if you have opened yourself up to the web), just as you have the right to give your opinion on their parenting method if they too post it on the web as well.  I would like to see moms and dads be a little kinder to one another about parenting issues when offering feedback and opinions.  Parenting topics are extremely sensitive areas and really we all are trying to do the best for our children and not a single one of us is perfect.  I do believe, however, that we must all keep seeking and striving for that perfection- for the sake of our children!

As to the written feedback from peoples who feel the Feber method is "ignorant", "mean" and/or physically and psychologically damaging that you've received is just that...opinion and feedback.  Chew it up, swallow it down or spit it out. I do wonder, however, if maybe it bothers you that the majority of feedback you received was negative in general?  I don't know if it was, but I would bet most bloggers weren't very supportive of the Ferber Method.  Get used to it.  The Feber Method choice of parenting is the minority- not the majority.  Most Feber nay-sayers feel that Feber's Method is outdated and not up to standard as far as what we know now about children/infant's nuerological and psychological development, functioning and/or capacity.  Meaning... that while you are of the Ferber belief that your child is learning to soothe itself by not being additionally held, fed, comforted, etc., when it's crying-  researchers are telling us that young infants/babies do not even have the cognitive capacity to "manipulate" you or cry for any other reason than necesity.  So, if your baby is crying, it's because it is in need of something that you as a parent are responsible for providing.  I think it's perfectly legit and possible for an infant to cry because it cognitively feels a need to be held a little longer than it had been...and I'm going to hold my baby that much longer because I believe my child's cry has meaning and it's my responsibility to provide comfort and love UNCONDITIONALLY.  I couldn't live happily with the Ferber Method. I want my children to know from DAY 1 that without a doubt I'll be there (anywhere-somehow) when they call..when they hurt..when they need me..when they cry. Listen up all you mamas and papas, studies show that simple things like holding, touching, voices and hearing familiar heartbeats, ALL have positive effects on infant cognition and childhood psyche.  As a child gets older the theory is-  if you have attended to your infant with unconditional love early on and throughout the first couple of years, than you should have a secure, happy and self- sufficient little toddler on your hands. 

Leaving a child to "self-soothe" is pretty lame in my opinion and the parents that I've known that have tried the Feber were MISERABLE.  Why should ANY naptime or sleepy-time resemble a battle of wills- as if you are dealing with 2 equal duelers? How silly. There is NO battle of wills with your infant and yourself..your baby just wants to eat, sleep, poop and be cuddled. And while babies are bossy in the sense that they don't adhere to set schedules, it's because they are hardwired to survive at this stage...and their battle cry is in itself actual crying!  But, the battle becomes yours alone when you take on Feber's Method and I believe that both you and your child become casualities of war...And in the end- you're both left crying...haven't you noticed?

 (But hey, I realize that this is all in theory and everybody's got their own crap to handle while trying to parent.  I just offer this writing as suggestion and/or examples of how my brain works and quirks as a mother of 2 boys- ages 9 and 16!)

Misty Travess

Joanne - posted on 02/28/2009

I just joined this group, i have read a number of your threads, and am disgusted with what i am seeing. I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a support and discussion place, obviously i was wrong! You guys should be more positive and supportive, parents especially new ones could be mentally damaged by some of the CRAP i have read please be more considerate of each other.

Sheri - posted on 02/28/2009

I am the mother of 7 kiddos. oldest 21 youngest 18 months old. Trust me every child is very different. Our oldest was raised using Dr. Spock (no comments needed about this okay) Our oldest is married and is very well adjusted. Our second was a mama's boy still is but.. he lives 9 hours away and is in law enforcement- very well adjusted, our twins we did what felt right for them, our third son came to us at age 10 spoilt! He is now being retrained, he's going to make it and is no longer throwing temper tantrum, our 3 daughter came to us at age 3. They way we parent her is soooo very different than the rest. Now our 18 month old... we've spoilt him, truth be told. We hold him all the time and he is constantly being told how much he is loved and cuddled with. But... when it comes to bed time, it is bed time! When it comes to meal times, it is meal time! Our parenting style is to allow respectful debates but we as the parents have the last word. Especially at bed time/ nap time. Just love your kids and meet their pysical needs and emotional needs and you're gonna be fine. All my kids know that we loved them because we do. We love them because they are. We love them no matter what! We also allow our kids to communicate openly with us as long as it is done respectfully. How can a toddler communicate respectfully?? You give them their words and eventually when they don't feel tired they will be able to say, I know it's my bedtime but I'm not sleepy yet may I read a book or may I snuggle for a few minutes? It works and has for 21 years.

Melissa - posted on 02/28/2009

Quoting Cindy:

in fact ferber method is child abuse and is harming your child....

your child will grow up with low self esteem and feel abandoned most of the time....

I urge you to do some research into Jungs opinion on this matter....it is negligent and immoral....

 

sorry if the truth hurts...and it isnt too late to change your methods....

is that your opinion or do you have proof?????????

i used the ferber method with my child. my mother used it with me and im sorry but i dont have low self esteem or ever feel abandoned. i hadmany friends in school and gradated a yr early at the top of my class..... so if thats what low self esteem and abandonment is then i  WANT my child to be the same way.

Skylur - posted on 02/28/2009

I think some people equate the "cry it out" method with not going in to the babies room to reasure them but not picking them up. I personaly think that the cry it out method is ok to do when the baby is a sertain age. I think that 4 months is too young to let your baby cry it out because they have not learned cause and effect. They dont realize that when I cry some one comes in to get me. I can understand why you feel affended about some one telling you that your parenting methods are wrong. No one wants people to tell them that their parenting skills are wrong or bad, but if you are going to post some thing then you have to be prepared for every one elses opinion.

Maleasha - posted on 02/28/2009

I just finished reading through all the posts and was very disturbed by what some of the parents had to say. I have used the Ferber Method with both of my children and have had good results with both. We didn't use it until they were both over the age of six months. We would put them in bed, give them a kiss, cover them with blankie and tell them good night. Yes, for the first couple of nights they cried, but I would go in and repeat kiss, covering back up and saying good night about every 5-10 min.



Every parent is different and we're not here to say hurtful things about how others have chosen to raise their kids. My husband and I talked to a number of doctors and even a psychiatrist before deciding which method we would use. All of them agreed it was up to us and all said it was not abusive to use the Ferber Method.



We're here to give advice and be supportive to the other moms here, not to say hurtful things and critisize someone on their parenting method.

Autumn - posted on 02/28/2009

This is my opinion I don't want anyone to take offence.

I believe that the Ferber method is appropriate but not for a newborn. I just read a post on here by a mom who said that her child was sleeping through the night at two months. At two months a baby should still be fed at least one time during the night. I rocked my little girl to sleep until she was 6-7 months old after that I did use the ferber method. If she cried at night I'd wait ten minutes, as long as she wasn't screaming. I discussed her sleeping patterns with her doctor. I was told that I should wait to let her cry it out until around six  months. She started sleeping through the night at four months and at six months she started waking up in the middle of the night again. She's a happy healthy two year old now that has no problem going to bed. She tells me when she's tired & will fuss for a minute or two, because she wants me in there with her, but then she goes right to sleep.

The point I want to make is that a newborn is still bonding with it's parents and they need to be comforted when they cry. I'm not trying to offend anyone but before you try it talk to your childs doctor to see what they believe will help the situation. When a infant between the ages of newborn to four months old is crying there is usually a problem a wet or dirty diaper or they're hungry. My one big question for all moms out there still with young infants is what are you going to do around 9 months when your child starts waking up because they actually remember you and are afraid you're gone and won't come back.

Look into milestones for your childs age and what's happening with them. I did and every thing I read helped my parenting style.

Guggie - posted on 02/28/2009

I'm sorry to hear that you feel attacked. Parenting is hard enough without feeling ambushed by others. None of us are perfect. We are all trying to learn more and do the best we can for our children.

Have you read what the researchers from Harvard have to say about cry it out methods?

You can find the article in its entirety

Cry It Out: The Potential Dangers of Leaving Your Baby to Cry

CIO? No! The case for not using "cry-it-out" with your children

Jenn - posted on 02/28/2009

We did the "cry it out" method, he cried 5-10 minutes the first few nights, but now, I can put him in his crib awake, he will play for a bit with his stuffies, then he goes to sleep.  We did it once his crib was lowered to the lowest level, was difficult to get him in without him waking up. Now he enjoys it, and if he wakes up he amuses himself. I am more rested he is more rested, its a great thing all around in this house.

Katie - posted on 02/28/2009

My siblings and I were babies who were raised with the Ferber method and so were my husband and his siblings. All 6 of us are well adjusted, happy adults. I have also noticed a difference between children who were raised the attachment way and the children raised the Ferber way. My sister in law used the Ferber method with her first daughter and attachment with her second. The oldest is so much more easy-going and happy. The youngest is whiny and won't sleep. My sister in law misses out on a lot because she has to constantly be with her youngest. I have also noticed a similar thing with a very close friend of mine. She never let her baby cry. If the kid so much as made a sound, my friend would jump up and run to her. It kept her from finishing meals and kept her from spending time with company that they invited over (a bit rude in my opinion to spend an hour away from people you invited over). On the other hand, my cousin has 2 children and she used the Ferber method with both of them. They don't cry as much and they go straight to bed with no issues.  I'm due in September with my first and based on my observations of other families,  the Ferber method is what we will go with. Of course it is a personal choice and no one should be criticized for choices like this. It is in no way child abuse (and I JUST completed Child Abuse Training for work not too long ago). It is not neglect, or anything like it. Obviously if the child is in REAL distress, we would never let them just cry that out.

Melissa - posted on 02/28/2009

amen sister!!!!!!!!! lol



i do the cry it out method. and i dont feel like im a bad parent......in the middle of the night i will let my son cry until i think he is screaming....most of the time when she woould first start crying in the middle of the night and i would go in to him he would be laying on his side still sleeping he was just in dream land.....so unless my child is creaming his head off i dont bother to go to him....he almost always stops crying within 10-15 minutes.......i have told meaning mother to do this and and they are enjoying a full nights rest now because of it.



its really only a quilt thing in the back of that mother mind. i was like that at first but i started to learn that it was ok ( plus my doc told me it was ok for him to cry it out).

Kristi - posted on 02/28/2009

I do not let my children "scream" it's more of a fuss not even a cry...and they were all over 6 months old...and honestly the fuss thing only lasted for a few minutes and when they realized I wasn't coming  they would go to sleep. However, I ALWAYS check my kids at least twice a night to make sure they are ok and to make sure they are covered!  I would NEVER let my children cry hysterically and not comfort them...usually a mother knows her child and knows what they need. But My children (1yr, 2yrs and 7yrs) all know the routine and when I lay them in bed and kiss them goodnight they are happy, smiling, waving and blowing kisses (the younger ones) they are fine! It's all about routine and helping them, not forcing them...if they are hysterical then I would think something is definatly wrong and not hesitate for a moment to run to them! But  I have never made myself deal with any kind of "trauma" , kids need sleep and so do mom's...it's all about knowing your kids and what works best for them in a loving, comforting and patient way!

Kristi - posted on 02/28/2009

AGREE TOTALLY!! There is no other way of helping them develop a way to fall asleep on their own, I mean isn't that what a mother is for? To help your children learn how to do things? With all of my children I did the same thing, when they were ready to sleep through the night (didn't need to be fed at night) I developed a routine...eat, bath, loves from mom and dad, then I put them in their bed with a soft comforting blanket, and turn on the mobile and say, "ok night night" in a very soft happy tone (seriously it's more about how YOU react when you leave their room)...sometimes they would fuss like they were saying "Hey, come back you need to hold me" and I would say " no, night night" with a smile, and leave the room...if they cried for longer than 15 minutes I will go in and make sure they are ok, give them comfort and not stay longer than about a min...BUT if my children cry out at night and it's the "hurt" or "sick" or "scared" cry...mom's know their kids, then I will not hesitate to go and get them and hold them until they are better, I don't reward them with food or by taking them out of their room. (Unless the situation needs that) But the "Ferber method" I have honestly never heard of...this is just what I found works! My kids go to bed at 8:30 sleep all night and up at 7:00...nap at 12:30...it's all about a routine! Find what works for your child! My oldest son wanted me to sing the "five monkeys jumpin on the bed" song every night...it worked for us! Kids are so much smarter than parents give them credit for! They will train you before they can even talk! It's all about knowing your role as the patient, loving and guiding parent!

Allie - posted on 02/28/2009

wow that was heavy reading. different things work for different families, I worked in child care before i had my own and i learnt that it was much easer if the baby had learnt how to put themselves to sleep it was a whole lot easer for everyone. so my baby knows how to go to sleep on her own. oh and we only have a small bed so didn't really want a small child shareing it. but our girl is quiet and when she cries there is a very good reason.

Raelene - posted on 02/28/2009

You have to do what you feel is right for your child.  If that is what works then that is fine.  I personally didn't use that method but my sister does and it works a treat for her :-)  My son is almost 7 and I have never had a problem.  My sisters son is six months older and he has not had a problem either!  Just goes to show that neither way is wrong.

Rachael - posted on 02/27/2009

I just had 2 reply about this comment as i know first hand that breast feeding ur child 2 sleep can cause tooth decay. My mother breast fed me untill i was 2 yrs old and I had 2 have all my upperfront teeth pulled out at the age of 3 as a result of tooth decay. This was due to a falling asleep while being breastfed as the milk gets trapped in your mouth. I did not have my upper front teeth untill my adult teeth grew and by this time i was at least 7 and had already started school. I remember being teased alot and i remember how much i hated smileing with my mouth open as i felt ugly. Im not saying that this will happen in every case or even saying u shouldnt nurse your child 2 sleep. I beleive parents should always do what is best for them, i just wanted 2 inform ppl that this can happen :)

 I also want 2 comment about controlled crying ( reassurance crying) as it has wrkd for me. I would only recommend it for the older babies and toddlers. I am a loving mother and would never abuse or neglect my baby and i also think its improtant that she and i do get proper sleep and that she has a healthy sleeping pattern. Controlled crying has helped me acheive that and iam thankful for it. This site is for supporting each other and getting advice not for attacking each other. If you have a difference in opinion their are ways 2 express it with out being hurtful :)

Rachael - posted on 02/27/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Tamara:

Quoting Jo Anna:

I am not criticizing, but from a medical stand poing, it is not good to nurse your child to sleep either.  When your child has teeth, the milk can cause your childs teeth to rot.  This method, comforting as it is, also causes your child to depend on you during scary times like bedtime.  What are you going to do when your child is 3?  Will you still be nursing, what will you do when your child cries because she depends on you and comfort to go to bed?  Will you crawl into bed with your child until she falls asleep?  And, if so will you continue to do this when your child is 8 and has a friend over for a sleep over?  Just questions, I like to know what methods others are using....

Actually nursing is not linked to tooth decay.  What you're thinking of is "bottle mouth" where the child is sleeping with a bottle and the liquid pools in the mouth as opposed to breastfeeding where it slides down the throat quite easily.  http://www.kellymom.com/bf/older-baby/to...

 

If my daughter is still nursing at 3 than so be it.  I seriously doubt she will nurse until 8.  It's a very rare thing for that to happen.  The average weaning age world wide is approximately 4 years old  http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.ht... I have no problem comforting my child when she cries.  It's my job as her mother to do so.  I do, in fact, share a bed with my daughter and my husband.  She sleeps snuggled right between us.

 

She does depend on me to transition her to bedtime but that's ok.  She's only 17 months old.  When she's old enough to transition to bedtime on her own, she will.  Why rush the growing up process?  They're only little once.

I just want to throw in here that I was a breastfed baby.  It was the 70's, and my mom did cosleeping, I fed when I wanted to and i suffered as a child from severe tooth decay caused by (according to the doctor's) milk in my mouth.  I think it's safe to say that all milk has sugar in it, and if left in a child's mouth will cause tooth decay.  At 18 months I had all my baby teeth capped because I basically had no enamel.  My adult teeth have been fine, but I just wanted to relay my own personal experience.  And I was also breastfed until I was 4.  I admit it is a little embarrassing to say, mostly because of people's reactions to it.  But, there's nothing wrong with breastfeeding your baby as long as you see fit or is convenient for you.  I still have memories of breastfeeding! 

Cassie - posted on 02/27/2009

I think it all depends on the child, I didn't like to let my daughter cry. I would rush in at the first wimper. Now she expects it and has got too clingy. So now I'm not sure if what I did was a good thing or not. I still hate to hear her cry, but I try not to rush in right away. I like to think that they need some independence. A little crying doesn't hurt just as long as you let them know that they are loved and that if anything does happen to them that you will be there for them.

Char - posted on 02/27/2009

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070700...



I agree it's ridiculous to be ridiculed for choosing what you see best for your child,

you chose to be a parent, and have full responsibility in regards to how you choose to raise your children,

I'm a big fan of AP...but it isn't for everyone.

It requires a lot of patience and time.