How does everyone feel anout vaccinations?

Lucy - posted on 12/20/2009

Quoting Sarah:

they are saying the MMR is the one that is linking to autism...one doctor is really close in proving a link!

Really? I am a special educational needs teacher with a particular interest in autism and aspergers, so I make sure I read all new material I can get my hands on dealing with the subject. So far any research suggesting a link has been thoroughly discredited, the weight of evidence is firmly behind the theory that autism is hereditary but can be exacerbated by environmental factors, so I would be really interested to know who this particular doctor is, as I haven't come across him.

Kate CP - posted on 12/20/2009

I want to thank all of you for your input and opinions during this conversation. However, this thread has been abandoned by the original poster and we seem to be going in circles. So this thread will be closed to further comments. Please visit Debating Moms (Mums) if you wish to participate in a goodhearted debate on the pros and cons of vaccination.



Thank you,

Kate Capehart

CoM Moderator

Krystal - posted on 12/20/2009

We are totally against vaccination, and will not be injecting our children with any neurotoxin's! A great DVD to watch is "Shoot em up", you can get it on netflix.

Kate CP - posted on 12/20/2009

Quoting Celena:

All you wonderful mother Please Do Not Get your child vaccinated, do your research. The MMR shot is linked to Autism, and the DTAP shot is linked to crib death. Don't believe all the talk about you will not be able to inroll your child in school, all you have to do is ask them for the green card when you inroll them in school, sign it and they have to let them in school.

No, the MMR is NOT linked to autism. No, the DTaP is NOT linked to crib death. There is no science behind these myths. 

Honestly, I think that lead based paint on toys is what's causing the rise in "autism rates". Lead poisoning in young children has the exact same symptoms as autism! In the past 20 something years there have been thousands of toys recalled because of lead based paint. Seriously, doesn't THAT seem like a more reasonable scenario? Jenny McCarthy "cured" her child's autism be treating him for heavy metal poisoning. Doesn't it make more sense that he wasn't autistic but merely had lead poisoning? 

Just a thought.

Kathryn - posted on 12/20/2009

There is no scientific evidence that vaccinations cause autism. That theory has been disproven plenty of times. I choose to vaccinate my child because the benefits outweigh the risk a thousand folds. You are taking a chance on your child's health by not having the vaccinated. Their immune systems are too young to fight off a lot of things. I Understand some vaccines may cause side effects or adverse reaction but I think many mothers use these rare instances as a way to scare people away from all vaccines. Look at how many children are vaccinated...millions and millions....if vaccinations were so deadly and definetly caused autism don't you think that there would be millions more cases of autism and more cases of children sick?? Think all the consequences through before you make a descion for your child's health!

Charlene - posted on 12/20/2009

My daughter had shaking spells after her 2 month and 4 month needles. She would shake for about 30 seconds and she would be stiff from the waist down. I took her to the doctor and he said the shaking spells were from her body building immunity to the needles. She had at least 7 shaking spells in total and after fighting with the doctor to get a referral for her to see a child neurologist, her EEG revealed everything was normal. The specialist said the shaking spells were from REM(rapid eye movement) He said it happens when babies are about to enter sleep. She had her 6 month needles and did not have any reaction or shaking spells. Nor has she ever had a temperature or anything else from her needles. I think the best thing to do is talk to your baby's doctor or pediatrician and tell them. Personally I think the immunizations are safe and well worth it, but we all have to do what we feel is best for our kids. Good Luck and hope all goes well for you and baby.

Cathy - posted on 12/20/2009

Quoting Donna:

Okay, I just have a question. Was that poster serious about getting 5 shots at one time??? That sounds excessive.

Here in Australia, babies get 3 vaccines (2, 4 and 6 months of age), but one is an oral dose for Rotavirus. My 1 year old just got his 12 month injections (there were 3) and the next one isn't until 18 months (only one then). After that, there aren't any until 4 years old.

Also, you can't attend school without having your vaccinations up to date.

If it's true that they are giving so many shots at once, I'd probably spread them out a bit, but would definitely get them. The risk is not worth it to me.

Hi, I'm in Australia. It may be different in other states, but in Victoria children can actually attend school, childcare or kindergarten if they are not vaccinated, but if there is say a measles outbreak they are not allowed to attend. Parents sign a form to that effect.

Peta - posted on 12/19/2009

In Australia our vaccination regime is a little different and if our children are not vaccinated they are not allowed into childcare, kindergarten or school. Both my children had no adverse reactions, but, I did check with other relations on both sides to see if myself, husband and siblings had any reactions when we were vaccinated to see if my children may be prone to reation. This is one of the many hard decisions you are going to have to make for your child, make sure you do your research and remember what ever you decide to do you are doing it out of love. Do not let people bully you into a decision or make you feel bad about your decision.

Rachel - posted on 12/19/2009

Your child shots are inportant. they will get lots fevers and alll other child hood things. the shots are pertecting them.

Rachel - posted on 12/19/2009

Your child shots are inportant. they will get lots fevers and alll other child hood things. the shots are pertecting them.

Lise - posted on 12/19/2009

I happen to work in the field of autism. Do I personally think vaccines "cause" autism? No, I don't. I've worked with kids who were never vaccinated, so that can't be the sole cause. I will say, however, that I do feel that some children may be predisposed to autism and the vaccines bring it out in them. Is there scientific evidence? No. But watching videos of a totally typical, talking, eye contact-making child 2 weeks before immunizations and then seeing videos of a child without eye contact, without language, who spends hours spinning and hitting his head in the corner 2 weeks AFTER shots makes an impact.



I am not immunizing my daughter. I've read a lot on the subject. I guess I should say I'm not immunizing her NOW. When she is older and her immune system is stronger, I will get the ones that make sense to me. I've had chicken pox - everyone I knew growing up had it. Was it fun? No. But if my daughter gets it, she'll be fine. Itchy, but fine. Tetanus? She'll get that shot. It's a personal decision that one should look at from all angles.

Serena - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting Sharon:

lets look at it this way...

How does everyone feel about itty bitty child coffins? Aren't they CUTE???

How does everyone feel about itty bitty child crutches? AWW!! So sweet! lookit at him hobble about! What a trooper!!!

Death sucks.

I would rather have my child HERE with autism than 6 feet under.

If you think the fever from vaccinations are bad you should try the searing pain of polio!!! YAY!!

Thank you...Sometimes i wondered if I was the only one who thought this way.

Celena - posted on 12/19/2009

All you wonderful mother Please Do Not Get your child vaccinated, do your research. The MMR shot is linked to Autism, and the DTAP shot is linked to crib death. Don't believe all the talk about you will not be able to inroll your child in school, all you have to do is ask them for the green card when you inroll them in school, sign it and they have to let them in school.

Lauren - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting kati:

Quoting Lauren:

Quoting Angela:

First off, talk to your baby's doctor about the reaction. See if there are alternatives to the vaccines given, and see if postponing them a month is an option. It may give her system a chance to catch up. It comes down to personal choice. There are risk factors to all medications, but the benefits outweigh the risks in most instances. There has been no scientifically proven link between vaccines and Autism. Many moms have chosen not to get vaccines, and with that trend, a lot of deadly diseases that were previously thought to be eradicated have resurfaced. My son was sensitive to his vaccines. Instead of getting them all at once, we spread them out over the month. He took to that regime better and there were no serious reactions after that. Bottom line is your doctor knows best, so always, always go over everything with him/her and make informed decisions together. Best of Luck ♥

I would say that MOMS know best and I know doctors are trained to listen to mothers instincts above their own training. So sometimes, doctors don't know best. Doctors are trained by other doctors who are paid by companies who make and distribute medications. Sometimes medicine isn't just a wellness thing it's a business which is unfortunate and difficult to accept. It's the fact that the benefits DON'T outweigh the risks which is the reason why some families (not just moms), choose to avoid the vaccines. Here's some things to think about.

Dr. Larry Palevsky is a board-certified pediatrician trained at the New York School of Medicine, and one of the leading physicians in the country who is actually able to compellingly and convincingly provide sound, rational, scientific justification as to why you need to seriously reconsider the wisdom of choosing vaccines as an option to prevent against most diseases. To listen to a full interview with Dr Palevsky go to: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...

He mentions: One article published in 2000 in the pediatrics Journal describes how, before the World War II, the majority of the infectious diseases the US was faced with - such as diphtheria, tetanus, polio, pertussis, measles, influenza, parapertussis, tuberculosis and scarlet fever - were all reduced before WWII and BEFORE there were antibiotics and vaccinations available to treat or to vaccinate against these diseases. The reasons for the reductions in incidence rates and mortality of these diseases were predominantly due to the implementation of public health strategies, including: clean water, better living conditions, improved sanitation and improved nutrition.

"... When I look at the studies that the American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC put out, saying that there's no correlation between vaccination and autism or vaccinations and asthma, I have to say that the studies just don't hold up to the scientific standards. You can't have 25 children in a study and then report that this proves that no children who get autism have any correlation to being injured by vaccines. This is what media does: they take these conclusions, put it right out in front of the newspapers and say, "Vaccines don't cause autism." When you really look at the studies - and there's not a proper control group and there's only 25 people - you can't make a grand, generalized statement about a general population because you've studied 25 children"

He also mentions a study performed by the NVIC who asked parents to report atopic ilnesses (asthma, allergies, eczema and hayfever) from children who were fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated and never vaccinated. Read the article to find out the results!

Also it is well known that both Britain and Japan have proven that reducing the amount of vaccinations given to children under the age of 2 also reduced the mortality rate in the same age group. http://www.vaclib.org/basic/japanusa.htm Coincidence?

How about the unvaccinated Amish kids? We know some people of the Amish community DO get vaccinated. But we are yet to find any unvaccinated Amish people with autism. Coincidence?

I have spent many many hours researching (not just online) vaccinations and trying to find the real science to prove that Vaccines were ever safe and effective. I have two young children and I strongly believe that NOT vaccinating my kids does not make the diseases return to the community, it does not put other children at risk and that each family needs to make INFORMED (using science not biased information) decisions for their own family. GOOD LUCK!!! :)

did you hear about the study that found  in 2006 that found autism in the amish populations. and did you forget to put in the part of the study of the japanese children who statistically had an increase (although not enough to be called an actual increase in the studyso basically it stayed the same) in the occurance of autism after they eradicated the mmr vaccine? all of these studies seem to disprove each other in some way shape or form. but what there is no question of, is that not vaccinating your child DOES increase the disease spreading through the community. in 2005 an outbreak of mumps and measles went through great britian. in increased 37 and 17 times their respective 1998 levels (the same year wakefields fake study was put out, all so he could make his own vaccine). thousands of children were infected, some died, some needed kidney transplants. can you imagine if that was your child? i just don't want to take that risk with my childs life.

 

UNvaccinated Autistic Amish or just Autistic Amish? 

Rosie - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting Lauren:

Quoting Angela:

First off, talk to your baby's doctor about the reaction. See if there are alternatives to the vaccines given, and see if postponing them a month is an option. It may give her system a chance to catch up. It comes down to personal choice. There are risk factors to all medications, but the benefits outweigh the risks in most instances. There has been no scientifically proven link between vaccines and Autism. Many moms have chosen not to get vaccines, and with that trend, a lot of deadly diseases that were previously thought to be eradicated have resurfaced. My son was sensitive to his vaccines. Instead of getting them all at once, we spread them out over the month. He took to that regime better and there were no serious reactions after that. Bottom line is your doctor knows best, so always, always go over everything with him/her and make informed decisions together. Best of Luck ♥

I would say that MOMS know best and I know doctors are trained to listen to mothers instincts above their own training. So sometimes, doctors don't know best. Doctors are trained by other doctors who are paid by companies who make and distribute medications. Sometimes medicine isn't just a wellness thing it's a business which is unfortunate and difficult to accept. It's the fact that the benefits DON'T outweigh the risks which is the reason why some families (not just moms), choose to avoid the vaccines. Here's some things to think about.

Dr. Larry Palevsky is a board-certified pediatrician trained at the New York School of Medicine, and one of the leading physicians in the country who is actually able to compellingly and convincingly provide sound, rational, scientific justification as to why you need to seriously reconsider the wisdom of choosing vaccines as an option to prevent against most diseases. To listen to a full interview with Dr Palevsky go to: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...

He mentions: One article published in 2000 in the pediatrics Journal describes how, before the World War II, the majority of the infectious diseases the US was faced with - such as diphtheria, tetanus, polio, pertussis, measles, influenza, parapertussis, tuberculosis and scarlet fever - were all reduced before WWII and BEFORE there were antibiotics and vaccinations available to treat or to vaccinate against these diseases. The reasons for the reductions in incidence rates and mortality of these diseases were predominantly due to the implementation of public health strategies, including: clean water, better living conditions, improved sanitation and improved nutrition.

"... When I look at the studies that the American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC put out, saying that there's no correlation between vaccination and autism or vaccinations and asthma, I have to say that the studies just don't hold up to the scientific standards. You can't have 25 children in a study and then report that this proves that no children who get autism have any correlation to being injured by vaccines. This is what media does: they take these conclusions, put it right out in front of the newspapers and say, "Vaccines don't cause autism." When you really look at the studies - and there's not a proper control group and there's only 25 people - you can't make a grand, generalized statement about a general population because you've studied 25 children"

He also mentions a study performed by the NVIC who asked parents to report atopic ilnesses (asthma, allergies, eczema and hayfever) from children who were fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated and never vaccinated. Read the article to find out the results!

Also it is well known that both Britain and Japan have proven that reducing the amount of vaccinations given to children under the age of 2 also reduced the mortality rate in the same age group. http://www.vaclib.org/basic/japanusa.htm Coincidence?

How about the unvaccinated Amish kids? We know some people of the Amish community DO get vaccinated. But we are yet to find any unvaccinated Amish people with autism. Coincidence?

I have spent many many hours researching (not just online) vaccinations and trying to find the real science to prove that Vaccines were ever safe and effective. I have two young children and I strongly believe that NOT vaccinating my kids does not make the diseases return to the community, it does not put other children at risk and that each family needs to make INFORMED (using science not biased information) decisions for their own family. GOOD LUCK!!! :)

did you hear about the study that found  in 2006 that found autism in the amish populations. and did you forget to put in the part of the study of the japanese children who statistically had an increase (although not enough to be called an actual increase in the studyso basically it stayed the same) in the occurance of autism after they eradicated the mmr vaccine? all of these studies seem to disprove each other in some way shape or form. but what there is no question of, is that not vaccinating your child DOES increase the disease spreading through the community. in 2005 an outbreak of mumps and measles went through great britian. in increased 37 and 17 times their respective 1998 levels (the same year wakefields fake study was put out, all so he could make his own vaccine). thousands of children were infected, some died, some needed kidney transplants. can you imagine if that was your child? i just don't want to take that risk with my childs life.

Rosie - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting Paula:

Quoting kati:

you make a good point about the boxing match, and i agree that people can choose whatever they want for their family. but like i said before I feel you are endangering the wellbeing of other peoples children by not vacinating your own, and that is definitely going to upset someone who is a parent. i don't feel anyone is a bad parent for not getting their child vaccinated, just completely misinformed.

How do you know your not the one misinformed?

because the entire medical community says i'm not. people who have filed a class action lawsuit against vaccine makers got thrown out of court cause there is no evidence that vaccines cause autism, and plenty of evidence that not getting vaccinated drastically increases your childs risk of getting a life-threatening disease. the whole study that started this controversy was from a scientist called andrew wakefield. his study proposed that the mmr vacine was linked to autism. his "study" was funded from trial lawyers who were seeking litigation against vaccine makers. 10 of the 12 coauthors of this study retracted their interpretation of the study and now say they believe there is no link between the vaccine and autism.  he also was trying to get a patent for another vaccine of his own at the time, and apparantly failed to mention that to anybody. he is also being investigated for falsifying this study.

Rosie - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting Lynn:

Mother of four and Grandma of 9 - check the website warnings re vaccinations and autism and meningitis and seizures. The brain damage that is often called 'shaken baby syndrome' is actually the aftermath of immunization. Big Pharma is making billions of dollars by scaring us that our infants and children need all these shots ....please research it so you don;t fall for their misinformation. Find other parents who are resisting and refusing all these shots - find them through community websites ....stand up for your children and don;t let them be destroyed by these money-maker corporations. Stop believing the FDA and CDC.....it's sad but they are NOT out for YOUR good !

go ahead and shake your grandchild and see what it does! r u serious?!

Erica - posted on 12/19/2009

i found out that u can split shots up its more dr appt but its worth it my daughtr still gets a small fever but its better than all u said ask ur dr if she can limit to two shots each vist this way u still get them but in less amounts

Sharon - posted on 12/19/2009

The one & only post from a newbie, doesn't even bother to respond, and lookit at the hubub "she" managed to create... gosh... I wonder whatever could this mean??

Emily - posted on 12/19/2009

You would be wise to do significant research about vaccines and their effects. This is not an easy question and will never have an easy answer. Many parents feel confident that the vaccinations had very negative effects on their child and led to autism.



Often pediatricians are willing to utilize an alternate schedule for vaccinations which reduces the number of vaccines received at one time. This allows the MMR vaccine to be given later than typically scheduled. It is usually given around 12-18 months, which frequently is when symptoms of autism begin to be recognized.



The risk that is run if children do not receive vaccines is that treatable diseases like mumps, polio, measels, etc that have proven fatal in the past can become prevalent again. The other edge of the sword is that there is question about their safety regarding disorders like autism.



Educate yourself. Learn about autism, vaccines and the various viruses they are designed to protect against, then weigh the risk factors. You can go to www.autismspeaks.org, www.autism-society.org, www.cdc.gov and other websites.



Hope that helps.

Suzanne - posted on 12/19/2009

I have two boys with autism so my advice is to be very very careful and do research before vaccinating. If you do intend to vaccinate, I would recommend 1 vaccine at a time instead of the schedule the pediatrician has outlined which is usually 3 to 4. Good Luck.

Amy - posted on 12/19/2009

I don't think that vaccinations for babies are safe. There are many thousands of Mums around the world saying "my child was healthy and fine and developing well, then I got my child their shots and something happened, and my child is no longer well". Having researched vaccines in depth I think the problem is that children get given too many vaccines too young when their little bodies and immune systems are not developed enough to process them and they get overwhelmed. Research the diseases first, the risks of contracting them, and what may or may not happen if your child does get sick with it. We did that and decided only whopping cough/pertussis, tetanus, polio and diptheria were worth giving our son. We waited til he was two years old before doing so as well. He had a reaction to the second lot he got (rash covering whole of upper arm from shoulder to elbow - lasted 3 days) but has otherwise been fine. He doesn't get sick with everything else going around like other kids we know who have had full schedule of shots, and he recovers much quicker if he does get sick. Trust your intuition, you know your child better than anyone else, and if your doctor or anyone else tries to bully you one way or another - get a new doctor.

Heather - posted on 12/19/2009

As an RN I am a believer in vaccines and that the benefits far outweigh the risks. All the horrible diseases that vaccines have prevented... Feel so fortunate that we have the opportunity to get vaccines in this country.

Brenda - posted on 12/19/2009

The autism studies were bad science set forth by people with an agenda. They have never been able to be replicated, and the author of the study admits it was a sham. Vaccinate.

Melissa - posted on 12/19/2009

i have four kids and all have gotten vaccinations. none have ever had any reactions, but i do believe that there are a number of children who do have reactions to them. it is up to you. if you plan on home schooling, then dont if you dont want to. but the kids have to have the vaccinations if they go to a public school, and i would want them to get them cause who knows what they can get from other kids.i think they are worth the risk, but it is your decision. some will say it isnt. you are their mom. do what feels right to you.

Jennifer - posted on 12/19/2009

i definitely think it is a personal choice that each parent needs to make on his/her own...but with that i am going to tell you the story of what happened to my 4 week old infant. she was born march 17th, and by april 17th we spent a week in and out of emergnecy rooms because she would have episodes of apnea. all the er docs insisted that it was periodic breathing and perfectly normal. they told me she had a cold and would be better within the week...but she didn't get better, infact her symptoms kept getting worse. she was having between 5 and 7 episode a day in which we have to pat her bottom and her back to try and stimulate her enough to take a breath. finally, at the doctor's office, he saw one of these episodes...it was so bad this time they needed to get a crash cart and do CPR to get her breathing again. her white cell count was 140,000 (normal is 15,000) when she was admitted to geisinger in danville. it was also there that the doctors noticed the cough that i had. 5 days later, she was diagnosed with whooping cough, and she caught it from me. her tiny little body was so overwhelmed by the hacking cough and respiratory problems that she needed to be intubated and put on a ventilator. the doctors were not even sure if she would survive...thankfully, by god's grace she recovered and is now a healthy and active 21 month old...the cough still lingers and she now has asthma, but at least she is alive. she was too young to get vaccinated, so she caught the disease and many people who say that whooping cough, polio, measles, and other childhood illnesses aren't around anymore...they're wrong. the only reason they are kept under control is thanks to the pople who choose to vaccinate their children to protect their own children as well as family and friends

Tiffany - posted on 12/19/2009

I truly think that vaccines has nothing to do with autism. My good friend is a doctor and we have had this conversation many times. Think about it, would there not be a lot more children with it, if that was the case. I think a lot of people use the vaccine story as a form of guilt and blame. My nephew has spina bifida, my sister could say the same that she did not take enough folic acid, but, once again that is not the case because she did. There is always going be a small side effect with their shots as with anything we may put in our bodies. I have never had an issue and my son has had all the required shots. I think it is a small price to pay to make sure our kids are protected. I was always told by my sons peditrician and my friend to give tylenol or motrin 1 hour before the shots. Talk to your daughters peditrician before the next shots and discuss options and giving tylenol. Good Luck.

Jane - posted on 12/19/2009

I have always given tylenol or ibuprofen before leaving the house for the doctor...my boys have gotten all of their shots and I do not regret it. They are not allowed in school without them. Daycare too.

Shanna - posted on 12/19/2009

I have a 4 yr. old and a 2 yr. old and neither one of them have been vaccinated. They are very healthy and have only ever been sick a few times. They have cousins who have had vaccinations and they are sick all the time, and with autism rates on the rise ( 1 in every 110) I think the risk is too great to take. Definantly healthier without vaccinations!

User - posted on 12/19/2009

epidimiologists have even been on mainstream tv/radio stating that H1N1 complications are caused by other bacterial infections.

Kate CP - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting libby:

what a thing to say believe me i have a step son that is ortistic and has fits because of mmr so realy i would neva say mmr is good none of tony blaires kids have ad mmr cos he dnt trust it so y should we

o.O

If we go through life making decisions based on the judgment of politicians then the world is going to hell in a hand basket. MMR doesn't cause Autism. There is no link to it. There is no science behind that hypothesis. Period.

Colleen - posted on 12/19/2009

Everyone has their own personal health needs. We live in a country where vaccinations are avaible and free! Other countries are not so lucky. Myself and my children have had the needles for everything available to us - H1N1, chicken pox, HepB..we get the regular flu shot every fall. Our only reaction is a sore arm for a couple of days. H1N1 can cause death in healthy children. I would risk the fever for a weekend then risk loosing my child. I recommend - get the shot.

User - posted on 12/19/2009

Its actually astounding to me the blather that comes out of the mouths of mothers on this page which I will hereafter be removing myself from. Punch in the neck?? Right. It's terrible that your brother is deaf and that your mother caught rubella. I was vaccinated for everything as a child and guess what I got - chickenpox, measles, whooping cough and myriad other illnesses (ear infections) brought on by excessive antibiotic perscriptions which was the norm in the eighties.

The real reason that autism was thought to be linked to vaccinations is because around the time children receive first year shots is also the time children show signs of develoomental pervasive disorders (aspbergers/autism). NOT because infants show signs of it at 2 MONTHS. Where the hell are you getting your information from? Try University for accurate info or if you weren't able to go to post secondary - GOOGLE A LITTLE FURTHER. The thing that they discovered about Autism is that it is congenital and therefore you are BORN WITH IT. That being said - the other thing they are researching big time right now is what environmental factors can aggrivate the symptoms. TOXINS do qualify for this category. So is there a link? Well, you'd have to think of it in terms of the research being done on ADHD and other behavioral/developmental disorders and wether or not they are syptoms of very mild autism.

KUDOS to the moms doing their research before lining their little sheep up and getting them stabbed with a needle of god knows what. I have 2 girls. My oldest is 6 and she will be getting select shots over the next 2 years, and some of them we chose to get because we will be taking her abroad, to much less sanitary lands. With the H1N1 histeria, I was ready to pull her out of school in the face of a forced vacc. program.

As far as the "rarity" of all the reactions and syndromes out there - I'm thirty and I know 4 incidences with a total of 6 children that have ended up with excessive reactions to their shots. Including 2 of these children that have GB syndrome. It seems a little high considering how many children I actually know. Infact it doesnt just seem high - IT IS HIGH.

Lastly - NOT getting vaccinations is simply not good science, I can say this although I can also say that I am a weary vaccinator and a very aware individual when it comes to the motivation on drug companies. There still are incidences of polio and other rare diseases.( though in my province the last incidence of polio was 1 and that was 21 years ago)



However - thinking that ANY BigPharma company has YOUR best interest at heart is just blind ignorance.

Danielle - posted on 12/19/2009

I've seen some parents letting their kids do things that I don't necessarily 'agree' with out of lack of knowledge or laziness. While I feel bad for kids that have parents don't make choices that I might consider the 'best' choice for a kid, as long as it doesn't affect me, my child, my family or friends in any way, then so be it. I say nothing, I smile and nod, and I just let them do their thing.



Vaccines are not one of those things, because vaccines don't just protect your child, they are a societal issue. Vaccines don't work if people just don't get them. And just because you get vaccinated, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will be immunized, that is true. And as others have said, some vaccines aren't given for a while, so small babies are exposed. And if you think that anyone would blame an outbreak a small baby or a child that GOT vaccinated but just didn't become immunized due to their own body's reaction, then your wrong. If my child went to school, and contracted something (even though she's vaccinated) from another child who we knew to also be vaccinated, I would be upset and worried but not ANGRY. If it was from a family that simply opted out, on top of everything else, I would be completely and inconsolably pissed off at the parents.



I've always wondered what a parent would feel like if their child got the disease they could have vaccinated against, or even better, what they would feel like to know their child caused an outbreak in other children. OR... what if their or other children died from it? I can't even imagine it. But then again, I also have a sense of responsibility and understanding that one parenting issue that goes BEYOND the realm of my and my family is vaccinations. Feed your kids what you will, let them play with whatever toys you want, dress them as you see appropriate, teach them whatever knowledge you want them to learn, do as a parent what you want in your house. Once your choices start affecting other people, then you shouldn't be shocked or upset or hurt when other people start getting irritated.



I'm sure most will assume that i can't see both sides of things. I get that it's a little scary to give vaccinations. I really do. I'm also sorry for anyone who has a child or person in their family that is ill, or has any form of disability, so I'm no insensitive to that. But not vaccinating is seeing a small picture- very, very small. Relying on the fact other others are vaccinated so your child will be safe is kind of silly, since so many people are starting to opt out. Small picture. If you have a family history of bad reactions to things like this- then this doesn't apply to you. Obviously your personal risks outweigh the benefits. It's unfortunate to be backed into a corner without much choice, but it's your best choice to maybe opt out. This whole debate isn't about the individual situations like that at all. it's about the large chunk of society that are normal, healthy people who are either scared or misinformed by the facts they get from unreliable sources, the horror stories they hear about a person somewhere who had such and such happen, or who don't understand the fact that vaccines only are affective when as many people as possible can receive them.



I'll be done with this thread after this post, because it's really just cyclical. The anti-vax people think it's wrong for pro-vax individuals to condescend to them by being angry about their choices, but then claim that pro-vax people are bullies, are gullible, are not making informed choices. Also, as someone said- it's still a choice at this point so there's not much point for anyone to really be up in arms, as people will still do what they want regarding this matter. And thanks to the internet, everyone thinks that they are doing what's best, as they can now diagnose practically any medical issue with a couple clicks of the mouse. I don't even know why people go to med school anymore, what a waste of money since everyone's a doctor and actually believes that they know better than doctors? Seriously, what's the point? And what are generally considered credible sources aren't credible because they are so big and affiliated with the government, so it can't be credible. The only credible sources are obscure people who write articles and do studies that examine one aspect of something.

Ok, I just had to get that off my chest... reading these debates just makes you wanna pull your hair out sometimes doesn't it? I'm talking for both sides, too, because I know that everyone hates me now! =D That's ok! Bye thread!

Danielle - posted on 12/19/2009

I've seen some parents letting their kids do things that I don't necessarily 'agree' with out of lack of knowledge or laziness. While I feel bad for kids that have parents don't make choices that I might consider the 'best' choice for a kid, as long as it doesn't affect me, my child, my family or friends in any way, then so be it. I say nothing, I smile and nod, and I just let them do their thing.



Vaccines are not one of those things, because vaccines don't just protect your child, they are a societal issue. Vaccines don't work if people just don't get them. And just because you get vaccinated, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will be immunized, that is true. And as others have said, some vaccines aren't given for a while, so small babies are exposed. And if you think that anyone would blame an outbreak a small baby or a child that GOT vaccinated but just didn't become immunized due to their own body's reaction, then your wrong. If my child went to school, and contracted something (even though she's vaccinated) from another child who we knew to also be vaccinated, I would be upset and worried but not ANGRY. If it was from a family that simply opted out, on top of everything else, I would be completely and inconsolably pissed off at the parents.



I've always wondered what a parent would feel like if their child got the disease they could have vaccinated against, or even better, what they would feel like to know their child caused an outbreak in other children. OR... what if their or other children died from it? I can't even imagine it. But then again, I also have a sense of responsibility and understanding that one parenting issue that goes BEYOND the realm of my and my family is vaccinations. Feed your kids what you will, let them play with whatever toys you want, dress them as you see appropriate, teach them whatever knowledge you want them to learn, do as a parent what you want in your house. Once your choices start affecting other people, then you shouldn't be shocked or upset or hurt when other people start getting irritated.



I'm sure most will assume that i can't see both sides of things. I get that it's a little scary to give vaccinations. I really do. I'm also sorry for anyone who has a child or person in their family that is ill, or has any form of disability, so I'm no insensitive to that. But not vaccinating is seeing a small picture- very, very small. Relying on the fact other others are vaccinated so your child will be safe is kind of silly, since so many people are starting to opt out. Small picture. If you have a family history of bad reactions to things like this- then this doesn't apply to you. Obviously your personal risks outweigh the benefits. It's unfortunate to be backed into a corner without much choice, but it's your best choice to maybe opt out. This whole debate isn't about the individual situations like that at all. it's about the large chunk of society that are normal, healthy people who are either scared or misinformed by the facts they get from unreliable sources, the horror stories they hear about a person somewhere who had such and such happen, or who don't understand the fact that vaccines only are affective when as many people as possible can receive them.



I'll be done with this thread after this post, because it's really just cyclical. The anti-vax people think it's wrong for pro-vax individuals to condescend to them by being angry about their choices, but then claim that pro-vax people are bullies, are gullible, are not making informed choices. Also, as someone said- it's still a choice at this point so there's not much point for anyone to really be up in arms, as people will still do what they want regarding this matter. And thanks to the internet, everyone thinks that they are doing what's best, as they can now diagnose practically any medical issue with a couple clicks of the mouse. I don't even know why people go to med school anymore, what a waste of money since everyone's a doctor and actually believes that they know better than doctors? Seriously, what's the point? And what are generally considered credible sources aren't credible because they are so big and affiliated with the government, so it can't be credible. The only credible sources are obscure people who write articles and do studies that examine one aspect of something.

Ok, I just had to get that off my chest... reading these debates just makes you wanna pull your hair out sometimes doesn't it? I'm talking for both sides, too, because I know that everyone hates me now! =D That's ok! Bye thread!

Libby - posted on 12/19/2009

what a thing to say believe me i have a step son that is ortistic and has fits because of mmr so realy i would neva say mmr is good none of tony blaires kids have ad mmr cos he dnt trust it so y should we

Libby - posted on 12/19/2009

Quoting Sharon:

lets look at it this way...

How does everyone feel about itty bitty child coffins? Aren't they CUTE???

How does everyone feel about itty bitty child crutches? AWW!! So sweet! lookit at him hobble about! What a trooper!!!

Death sucks.

I would rather have my child HERE with autism than 6 feet under.

If you think the fever from vaccinations are bad you should try the searing pain of polio!!! YAY!!

Cherie - posted on 12/19/2009

check out The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears. http://askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/ind... It doesn't tell you to get them or not get them, but it tells you the ingredients, side effects, alternate vaccine schedules and a lot of other really good info so you can make an informed decision.

Marie - posted on 12/19/2009

i am a nurse and have seen 2 children die from preventable illness. ill take a little fever over death any day! i feel terrible for these parents. the guilt is too much to handle. all because they thought they were protecting these kids from vaccine reaction. we forget that these illnesses still exist. babies die from pertussis!

Ivonne - posted on 12/19/2009

can i just say where would we be without them? Have a look in the poorer cuntries who cant afford them and how would we handle a surge in those childhood illnesses.some of them like german measels can be quite dangerous for the little ones.would we be here if we hadnt had ours?

Kerryn - posted on 12/19/2009

Earlier this year, Australian businessman Dick Smith took out a full page ad in The Australian newspaper refuting the antivaccination propaganda that has been circulating in Australia. In some areas of Australia, the vaccination rate has fallen so low that we have had whooping cough epidemics this year (eg http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/2009/2...).



http://www.flickr.com/photos/30675849@N0...

http://antiantivax.flurf.net/



Please, whatever you choose as best for your child, look at good scientific evidence, not anecdotal evidence.



By the way, my children have all completed the recommended immunisation schedule.

This year, I had the H1N1 vaccine too (provided by my employer). I don't think that H1N1 poses a significant risk to my own health, but it does for the elderly people I work with. I was immunised to reduce their risk of exposure.

Lynn - posted on 12/18/2009

Mother of four and Grandma of 9 - check the website warnings re vaccinations and autism and meningitis and seizures. The brain damage that is often called 'shaken baby syndrome' is actually the aftermath of immunization. Big Pharma is making billions of dollars by scaring us that our infants and children need all these shots ....please research it so you don;t fall for their misinformation. Find other parents who are resisting and refusing all these shots - find them through community websites ....stand up for your children and don;t let them be destroyed by these money-maker corporations. Stop believing the FDA and CDC.....it's sad but they are NOT out for YOUR good !

Tiffiny - posted on 12/18/2009

n/m

Chelsea - posted on 12/18/2009

I actually got the mumps from my MMR before I started kindergarten.



Asking a doctor....hmm well, sorry to say I don't agree that Doctor knows best all the time. After all, practicing medicine is a business.



As parents, it is our responsibility to make informed decisions regarding our children. That means doing research and sometime going against what doctors/nurses, mothers/in-laws say is best. You know your child more than anyone else in the world.



The reason why babies are given so many shots so early in life is not because they need them RIGHT NOW, it's because parents are more likely to take their children to the doctor regularly as infants.



Personally, because I have always had a bad reaction to every shot I've ever had (The high fever, vomiting, diarrhea, and getting severely dehydrated as a result, a huge bruise, and whatever limb I got the shot in would go numb and sometimes I couldn't control my muscles) I have chosen not to vax my kids. I may possibly do some when they are older and I'm sending them to school or an activity that requires vaccinations, but more likely I would try to get an exemption.



If I were vaccinating, I would be selective about which ones, and do them on a delayed schedule and would have everything I have chosen up to date by age 5.

Tiffiny - posted on 12/18/2009

My husband is a pharmacist. He has researched medicines and their reactions in the body. For the CDC to come out and say there is no link between autism and vaccines is irresponsible. Do you realize the CDC owns 28 patents to vaccines? They are making money hand over fist. Why would they butcher their cash cow? To understand why parents still want answers, go to this link and pay close attention to the questions.





http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/12/-cdc-...



Our son is fully vaxed. He catches everything under the sun. Our daughter is not vaccinated and she never catches anything. For those of you who say not getting vaccinated is ignorant, Have you researched both sides? You will find most parents who do not vax or selective vax are well educated on both sides of the issue. It is a lot easier to go with the flow and not against the grain. This is not a decision any of us has taken lightly. I feel it is every parents job to research any medicine that will be administered to their child and then make a decision. I don't think it is right for mothers to judge each other on their decisions, provax or antivax. We all have the best interest of our children at heart.

Naomi - posted on 12/18/2009

I believe choices are vital here. Parents should do their own research and do what they feel is best for their family. Are we not a democratic society? We are allowed to have choices and I believe if you start taking choices away from people that is a very slippery slope. I don't want to be ruled with an iron fist. How can one person judge another about any decision they make for their family. Parenting is hard enough, with out having to endure critism from other parents. Taking choices away from families and telling people what to do with their health can become a very dangerous situation. Do what you believe is best and ignore everybody else. How dare anybody judge me, for what I choose to do or not to do!!! Perhaps, when you're perfect, then you can come talk to me!!

Lauren - posted on 12/18/2009

Quoting heather:

krista, this is exactly why I feel like im banging my head against a wall when it comes to this subject. Non vaxxers have tons of irrational ideas and crazy theories to try and back up their decision. As a pediatric nurse, as a mother who had to care for my son who had pertussis at 2 months, as a person who is responsible and educated, and as a person with enough common sense to not believe government conspiracy theories, I truly believe vaccines are very beneficial.

"...as a person who is responsible and educated, and as a person with enough common sense to not believe government conspiracy theories, I truly believe vaccines are very beneficial."

A little offensive and a little backwards? Families who, after reading all the information they have at hand, decide to not vaccinate, are therefore irresponsible and obviously uneducated? Am I understanding this correctly? 

Ask your local Chiropractor about vaccinations. Ask to see what they were taught at medical school. Are they irresponsible and uneducated to or is it just us moms on the internet?

I really don't mean to cause any harm through words. Just want to challenge people to see both sides. Good point raised earlier... is everyone here up to date on their booster shots? ....Vaccines are not life-long. I think it's because we all love our kids so much that this subject (and subjects similar) can tend to get heated just through passion. I've seen two infants in my community just this year, die suddenly. One 5 month old boy, otherwise healthy, passed away sleeping next to his twin sister just days after getting vaccinated. Another 6 month old boy had to get shots in order to start attending the home daycare. On his first day, he took a nap at 10am and was checked on at 10:15am and it was too late. 

I think it's when people come into contact with stories like these, that the question comes up "Can this really all be a coincidence, every time?"  I am certain that I would reconsider my decision regarding vaccinations if I was shown evidence similar to --a family who chose not to vaccinate their children still tragically had to deal with SIDS or an autism diagnosis. If I was shown that a case exists then I would have to re-evaluate. But until then, I think the other ladies are right. I'm going to stop with my side of the debate because I doubt it's going to change any minds. I also doubt anyone even visited the interview I posted 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl... (if you're concerned about subscribing, you can easily un-subscribe after listening to the interview)

So good evening to all and thanks for the points raised and the challenges and the passion behind the subject

Stefanie - posted on 12/18/2009

The only thing I care to say on this subject is:

I think it's hilarious that so many parents get their panties in a twist over this issue when most adults aren't up to date on their boosters. I know I'm not and I won't be getting any boosters either. But we don't all walk around asking all the adults in our lives (or strangers on the street), "Hey, you better be up to date on your boosters if you want to touch my baby!"

;-)

Angela - posted on 12/18/2009

Quoting Lauren:

Quoting Angela:

First off, talk to your baby's doctor about the reaction. See if there are alternatives to the vaccines given, and see if postponing them a month is an option. It may give her system a chance to catch up. It comes down to personal choice. There are risk factors to all medications, but the benefits outweigh the risks in most instances. There has been no scientifically proven link between vaccines and Autism. Many moms have chosen not to get vaccines, and with that trend, a lot of deadly diseases that were previously thought to be eradicated have resurfaced. My son was sensitive to his vaccines. Instead of getting them all at once, we spread them out over the month. He took to that regime better and there were no serious reactions after that. Bottom line is your doctor knows best, so always, always go over everything with him/her and make informed decisions together. Best of Luck ♥

I would say that MOMS know best and I know doctors are trained to listen
to mothers instincts above their own training. So sometimes, doctors
don't know best.

Then I guess I am blessed.  My son's ped is a MOTHER of three year old twins and is open to all opinions and decisions.  She does tell us what she is required to, and she tells us her own opinions opinions as well, and she always, always respects decisions that are made.  I am an informed parent, and I made an informed choice when it came to my son's ped.

Brandi - posted on 12/18/2009

I say GET THEM!!!! It beats the alternative of death due to some totally preventable disease.