How many children do you think that a family should have?

Michelle - posted on 05/18/2012

I'm not here to argue.But if there isn't a God, then how did you get here? How did you have a child? How did everything get here? The moon, sun, trees, etc. God made all children and everything around. NO, I am not preaching , I am only speaking my mind about children, same as everyone else.

Jenny - posted on 05/18/2012

Michelle, there is no evidence of a god. Did you start this post to discuss if large families are a good thing as indicated in your OP or to preach?

Michelle - posted on 05/18/2012

I started out this post to see how many children families have and to hear the feelings out how they feel about their families. There are no disgrace for one family to have 1 child in it or even another family to have 4 or even more than that. I have 6 children myself. I would not trade my children for anything in this world. There are so many criticism going on. Too many people are putting those down who has 1 child and some are putting people down for having 4 or 6 or even 8. Every child in this world is a blessing, a miracle that God has given us. I don't care how many one has. Every woman, mother has her reasons because she has just 1. It may not because she is phyically not able to. She may have simply chosen not to have any more. There is nothing wrong with that. Same as someone having 4 or more...there are nothing wrong with having that many either. Whoever has more than 1 child isn't doing wrong for bringing more into this world. As long as the mother and father is giving their child/children love and can take care of them, then that is what matters.Just because we all don't agree with the same number of children to have in the family, doesn't mean anyone is wrong for not having the same number of children. The children are all blessings, no matter how you look at it.
Too many people judge and seem to want to condemn those who are different than what they are. Everyone has their own choice to choose what size family to have. Wether you have 1, 2 ,10..you should be gratefull for the amount you have and not judge those who has more or less than you. Think about those women who wants a biological child of their own more than anything and they can't. I feel for them in my heart and I hope and pray that one day that God will give them that chance to be a mother..to feel that little one growing inside of them, to help bring a life into this world, to see a miracle of love, to have that blessing.
We should listen to others and everyone has an opinion , wether we agree with it or not. It is all opinions. Yes, the world we live in isn't so great and has alot of bad in it. But, there is still alot of good in it too. So many tends to look at the bad and forget all about the good that's still here. To many wants to criticize , to judge one another just because they think you or I is wrong for having too little of children or too many.
Many say they are christians, some may not even believe in any words that God gives us. Some people ares saying that this world is getting tooooo populated because of the number of children women are bringing into this world. Honestly, women even having 8 children isn't a big number. If you look at the times back then..Woman had 10,12,even up to 24 children in their families. There aren't too many women out here in the world that has that many now. So, even me, having 6 isn't even close to those numbers. Some say that this world is being too populated. I dont know how many totals in this world. There are so many people dying each year, not just by famines, but by diseases and some may die from natural causes ( which are few). Any how so many are dying and few are being born. So how is the world getting so overpopulated? Many women has abortions that are wrong. It's murder no matter how you look at it. I don't care if someone don't agree with me on that at all. But to the world being so overpopulated. God says for woman to have children, not to not have any. It doesn't matter to how many children anyone has. All children, including adults are God's children. He is our creator, He is our Father. We don't have to agree with one another about anything. But alot of problems in this world is because of too many people having hatred in their hearts and are too judgemental. God and Jesus put so many examples here on earth to learn from. He gave so much love to all of us. We are to act like Him.
It seems that everyone wants to judge one another all because others aren't like you and have the same opinion as you.
Yes, there are famine going on and so much struggling in this world. It's not right either to say too many children are being born on the account of not having enough food or water. We are all God's children. So, I have to say to those who thinks that alot of children shouldn't be born all because of the famine and so forth...Maybe that's what your mom should have thought of before she had you. What if your mother, said she shouldn't have any children. Then you would not have been brought into this world. Look at the blessings in your life. Look at what God has given you. God gave you a mother to have you, to carry you, to love you and then you want to criticize others for having more children. Every child is a blessing to God. Yes, this world will get worse, But God is the one to allow it and He is the One who is going to fix it. We will all be His sons and daughters and we all will be in God's family one day. There are no reason for anyone to put others down, just because others don't agree with the same amount of children. I look at my children and I see that one day they will be in God 's kingdom and that is a BIG blessing in itself. God allows women to have children. If He doesn't want them to have any then they won't. So, to all women who has had children, Thank God for your blessings. Thank God for giving you family to share you lives with. It is a miracle for the things in life that God gives. Many don't want to see of how much God gives us in blessings. Then you have others that wants to put others down. There are alot of people struggling in life, It doesn't always have to do with having children, But why does others want to add more problems or heartache to the list. There's enough struggles in life that people don't have to add to them. Instead of having hatred in your hearts, trying giving kindness and stop being so judgemental. We all are going to be in God's family one day and we all have problems, we don't need to criticize one another. We don't need to hear about all the problems in this world about famine and so forth. I'd imagine many knows about it. But where is one's faith and hope in it, when you keep on bringing it up and bringing it up. God heals, He protects, He gives faith and knowledge to us.He is the one we need to ask help and He is the one to help you. It seems noone has the faith at all when you bring up that there isn't going to be any water or food to go around to everyone. There has been people out in the wilderness that didn't have food and God dropped down manna from the sky to them for food. This is in the Bible. If you think that famine is going to be the problem, that 's already happening. IN revelation tells you exactly what's going to happen in this world and what has already happened.
God wants His children to be safe and protected. We all have to do our part for that to succeed. The world is the way it is because of the people in it. Noone wants to give respect or show any kind of decentcy to anyone. There are very few. Every child is God's child, including adults. We are all blessings. We are all given blessings. So, I have to say to all mothers.. don't worry about what others think of you about the size family you have. You are the one who has the choice to bring however many children you want into this world and to be happy about it. I'm happy with the amount of children I have and I don't care who thinks I'm stupid with having this many. I will always love them and protect them no matter what. I will also rely on God for help. You have to have faith in things. So, congradulations to all who has 1 child or even more. God has blessed you and gave you miracles. Be good to your family, they will help you through anything.

Johnny - posted on 05/18/2012

I am not sure what exactly Elizabeth is alledging, but I have not sent her or anyone else from this thread private messages nor will I. I also have not violated THUMPS anywhere in this thread.

Elizabeth, if you could please let me know which supposed "abusive message" or "nasty comments" I have made to you. Although, at this point in the thread I am fairly certain given your past behaviour that you wll chose to avoid answering this. Mostly because I have not done this.

I am simply arguing my perspective that it is not healthy for the planet for people to bear large numbers of biological children. I realize that many people here may not like that message, but it is not specifically intended to be a personal attack. It is a political message. If people chose to take it personally, that is on them.

I am still not exactly sure what your "perspective" really is or how it is that it supposedly triggers something in me. I get that you think large families are best. But I'm not sure why and I have not seen you really respond to any of my suggestions as to why they are not a good thing. As I have said before, if we were not facing a crisis of overpopulation, I would be just fine with large families. I have zero issue with the family size choices people make aside from the ecological difficulties that ensue.

Elizabeth, when suggesting that people should act with a modicum of civility, I would suggest you take a good look in the mirror. What we put out into the universe generally comes back at us...

Toni - posted on 05/18/2012

Elizabeth firstly if somebody is sending you abusive pm's take it to the moderators of the community it is breaking no thumps and will be sorted out for you...

Secondly, I have never and will never send an abusive pm to anyone, I haven't been deliberately offensive to you or anyone on this thread and when you have found my posts offensive I have explained why I have said what I have said (such as the quote you cherry picked, which missed the explanation off the beginning). I haven't been deliberately nasty or rude unlike you who has repeatedly flamed this post with insulting and nasty, spiteful posts.

I Doubt johnny or sapphire have either though, IF they have pm'd you read them, I would suspect it would only be information NOT abuse!

Thirdly, let me say again I NEVER said you have a huge family, in fact if you'd read my last post I clarify IMO 4 is a mid sized family...which means it isn't small or large it is in the middle! But I also AGREE with you family size is subjective to individual people! It looks as though you are the one who isn't reading our posts!

Fourthly, you continue to cherry pick from our posts to try and make us look stupid or mean spirited, you have ignored the fact I have said more than once I'd love more than 2 children and am in fact part of a thriving LARGE family so I'm hardly berating people who choose to have large families, unlike you have done with people who choose to have smaller families!

Finally let me repeat myself AGAIN..."If you want people to listen to what you have to say you need to learn to not be so hostile against the opposing side, if you don't, all you succeed in is getting people's hackles up and instead of seeing any information you may have they just see the attacks and the negatives and then they feel the need to defend their choices/ lives. You don't help anything by being rude, you get far more with sugar than vinegar!"

Sapphire - posted on 05/17/2012

Quick message back to you Elizabeth: I sincerely feel sorry and sad for you. You have failed to acknowledge other parenting perspectives in regard to this orignal thread- the number of kids for each family. You have failed to respond to direct inquiries. I feel sad that you cannot show the human trait of acceptance towards other mothers that are different than you. I am triggered by absolutely nothing you stated, but I suspect your defense mechanisms by blatent ignoring, circular reasoning, and high-fiving large families out there reinforces your own insecurities.

Actually, I wish you all the best for you to gain and learn new perspectives in life.

Jenny - posted on 05/17/2012

Whether or not humanity can bring it's population explosion under control is the number one deciding factor in our future success. Whether we will be living on a healthy thriving planet or a dying, struggling planet. It is likely that humanity will survive, but lovely events like mass famines and water wars will likely thin us out in the worst possible ways in the mean time. If you think the world can be a nasty place now, just wait until 2050 when the world population reaches 9 billion. That's an extra 2 billion people looking for food & water.



Quoted for truth. People need to be aware that even in your tiny corner of the world you are part of the whole. You are not separate from "their problems". Stop being so ignorant to what's going on outside of your bubble. Overpopulation will affect every last one of us. It was also my deciding factor in having only two biological children. If we have more love to give, we will adopt or foster.

Jodi - posted on 05/17/2012

Elizabeth, given you are asking others to figure out why they are so offended by your comments, have you actually LISTENED to others when they have explained why they are offensive? I made a post a couple of pages back, and you totally ignored my point about the offensive nature of what you said, and how you perhaps could have worded it differently so people wouldn't take offence to your opinion. Unless you MEANT to be offensive of course.....

Elizabeth - posted on 05/17/2012

Quick message to Sapphire, Toni & Johnny before I get on with my
rich, full life with my "HUGE" family of 4.

I don't read abusive messages. I don't respond to aggressive nasty
comments. I don't argue with people when they fail to maintain a modicum
of civility. You are all obviously triggered by my perspective
and I hope you can figure out why. Perhaps you can go back and actually
read my posts as from what I can see you simply haven't. Good luck to you all.

For you Mom's out there with bigger families, KUDOS to you & good
luck on your journey!

Johnny - posted on 05/17/2012

COMIS, it is not "for nothing". Whether or not humanity can bring it's population explosion under control is the number one deciding factor in our future success. Whether we will be living on a healthy thriving planet or a dying, struggling planet. It is likely that humanity will survive, but lovely events like mass famines and water wars will likely thin us out in the worst possible ways in the mean time. If you think the world can be a nasty place now, just wait until 2050 when the world population reaches 9 billion. That's an extra 2 billion people looking for food & water.

I continue to speak up on this, over and over and over again like a broken record, because people are so eager and willing to put their heads in the sand and ignore the problem. I get that some of you are offended, some of you are angered, and some of you are just plain upset by this. The truth hurts.

Gale - posted on 05/17/2012

This thread has started out great with respect, as I read on it became hateful and ugly on both sides, I kept reading hoping it would change but it keeps getting nastier, I think I'm going to move on.

Michelle - posted on 05/17/2012

Sapphire, The reason why I say that it is nice if someone could have two is because when there is 1 child, sometimes that child gets lonely and wishes to have a sibling, a friend and even a playmate. No, not all should have another child. Some are just not cut out for it, some can't afford it, and some just don't want anymore children or plain out don't need any more. I am not putting anyone down for having 1 child what soever, nor am I putting you down for having just 1. It is of course everyones choice to have 1, 2 or even 8 in that matter. There are some who can't have any that wishes to.
Growing up I had 2 sisters who were older. I did wish to had another sibling that was closer in age to me, for I could have had someone to talk to and be close to. It is good for some people to have someone else there in case of mom or dad passes away and they don't have to go through it alone. But some is glad they don't have any siblings. It is all on how the person that is in the situation of what they want. If everyone and everything out here in the world would be the same, then everything and everyone would be down right boring. When someone and something is different, that makes them unique. It makes you unique for your reasons of just wanting 1 and it is the same with someone who has more than 1.
So to being nice to having 2 is nice to some people who wants another. It doesn't mean they should just because they could. It is a phrase of it would be nice if someone could. It is like going out here and saying " Boy it would be nice if I could win the lottery." It doesn't mean that you should win the lottery. For some people are right down conceeded and stuck up all because they have money. Then again there are other who are totally different. It is nice to see how people feels on a subject like this one. People gives their outlooks on things. It is good to hear different outlooks for if everything was the same, then you would know what the answers to everything would be and what others think about the same subject. To me, if that would be so, it diffently would be boring if it would all be the same. And I'd imagine others would agree with that.
So, the only other thing that I can say to you, Is that I'm glad you are happy with 1 child and that is all that matters is how you feel about it, not me or anyone else. God has blessed you with one. The same way He has blessed others with more.

Sapphire - posted on 05/16/2012

Sorry Johnny, but I'm afraid you may not get an answer. Elizabeth Lyuben seems to intentionally avoid answering direct statements. :::shrugs:::: It would add to her credibility if she responds, but oh well.

Johnny - posted on 05/16/2012

I would LOVE to hear how not overpopulating the world so that our children and grandchildren's generations have the chance to thrive is a selfish choice? Please, enlighten me.

Toni - posted on 05/16/2012

Thank you Elizabeth, I appreciate you spelling my name correctly.

You are right the size if a family is subjective to who is viewing it, But you have a very poor way of expressing yourself, you do not have to belittle people with smaller families to support people with larger families. There is a huge difference with stating facts and stating your opinion, your opinion isn't necessarily wrong but when it's stated as fact it is (such as in your first post, it is your opinion that small families are unhappier than larger families, there was no fact there).

I also never said you had a large family, I said you sound as though you are justifying how many children you have, you sounded defensive because it had been suggested 1 or 2 children is ideal (due to our limited resources etc)...since you have 4 children you sounded as though you felt attacked, I wasn't suggesting you had a large family. 4 in my opinion is a mid sized family not large.

If you want people to listen to what you have to say you need to learn to not be so hostile against the opposing side, if you don't, all you succeed in is getting people's hackles up and instead of seeing any information you may have they just see the attacks and the negatives and then they feel the need to defend their choices/ lives. You don't help anything by being rude, you get far more with sugar than vinegar!

Sapphire - posted on 05/16/2012

Perception, Elizabeth.

I do consider 4 children to be a large family. You obviously, do not. No hard feelings- just personal opinion.

And again, you are quite judgemental, highly insulting, and downright rude with your statement, "Of course 4 children would seem "large" to those who balk at having more than 1 or 2 children, (just as 1 child would seem like a lot to someone who is horrified by the thought of bringing even 1 child into their world)."

Balk? Horrified at the thought of bringing 1 child into this world? How DARE you assume that mothers of 1 or 2 children are horrified or balk at the notion of a small family is a perfect size for them. You have a lot of nerve and apparently issues with other women who chose a small family. How DARE you assess my small family and make the comparison that your large family is superior? Lady, you have a lot of nerve and if I were you, I'd start showing more kindness and empathy. And you call yourself a role model to your children? By belitting others? Bully!

Elizabeth - posted on 05/16/2012

Just to clarify, Toni. I do NOT have a "large" family. I have 4 children. That is NOT
considered a large family by myself or anyone in my sphere. "Large" family is not clearly
defined and would be a judgement call on your part. Of course 4 children would seem "large" to
those who balk at having more than 1 or 2 children, (just as 1 child would seem like a lot to someone who is horrified by the thought of bringing even 1 child into their world) but is very
small to a person who has 7 or 8.

Elizabeth - posted on 05/16/2012

Wow, this is quite a sweeping judgement Little Miss Can't be Wrong:

"Now a days, I do honestly think it is a bit selfish to have large families like I have previously mentioned. Our resources are running low, and life is expensive enough. There are foster homes filled with children in need of a loving home. This is my own personal opinion, but I think having large families now is a bit taboo."

I and I am sure those who have lots of children see the definition of "selfishness" far far differently.
I also wonder how many foster children you plan to adopt.

Sapphire - posted on 05/16/2012

Quoting Michelle Lake, "It is nice for someone to have 2 if they could."

Why? What's so nice? Technically, with minor medical intervention I "could" have a 2nd baby. But, I do not want another baby. I have no urge, yearning, maternal desire for more than the one child I have. Please do not misinterpret that by meaning I dislike being a mother. I love being my son's mother, but it took me a few months to embrace motherhood, and I define myself as more than a mother.

Michelle, I know through your comments that you have absolutely nothing against small families and your perspective is of a mom of 6. Just because someone "could", doesn't mean someone "should". I, for one, am someone that should never have another baby!

Krista - posted on 05/16/2012

"According to recent research Japan is in danger of becoming extinct...in 1000 years due to the average family sizes decreasing to one or no children at the present time."

Johnny already addressed the issue about demographic winter. But one thing to keep in mind as well is that we cannot be so short-sighted as to just look at individual countries. Yes, some cultures are outpacing others when it comes to having babies. Some cultures tend to have smaller families and so, percentage-wise, are becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the global population. Other cultures are having a lot of babies, and so are becoming a larger percentage of the global population.

And there are some people who insist that individuals in western cultures should breed like rabbits so as to not become "outnumbered", which is a pretty xenophobic approach, really.

Throughout history, there have ALWAYS been demographic shifts, and that will continue. It does NOT change the fact that the global population is still growing at an incredibly alarming rate. Japan's demographic winter really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, not when you realize that our global population has gone from 1 billion to 7 billion, in only 200 years, with shorter and shorter time frames between each successive billion.

Johnny - posted on 05/16/2012

Like many random blurbs you hear on the radio, Japan is not in danger of going extinct. That's funny though. Japan is currently experiencing a serious "demographic winter". Which will be a struggle for them in the next 20-30 years. But they are by no means disappearing. If one responds to a demographic winter by forcing a population boom, then you have to continue to grow the population exponentially over time. Otherwise, the population boom that you have to respond to the demographic winter will then experience it's own struggles when it reaches old age. You have to keep having a larger and larger population in order to avoid this pitfall. There is a very good reason that the Japanese government chose not to encourage a population boom and to find more reasonable methods to deal with their 'demographic winter'.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that perhaps God inspired those who invented birth control methods? When the instructions were given to go forth and multiply, the world's population was a tiny fraction of what it is today. Women often lost more children before their 1st birthdays than lived. Maybe, just maybe, God looked down and became concerned that his earth can not sustain his children. That he wants us to slow it down and cease with the hubris?

Michelle - posted on 05/16/2012

There are no disgrace on how many children someone has. I think that sometimes some people may only have one. It is nice for someone to have 2 if they could. But, I will not put someone down because of having one child. Some people has reasons why they can only have one. Maybe things couldn't work out for them to have more children due to medical reasons, family issues or couldn't afford them. I do feel that that they have been blessed to having their own child. But to all who have more than one child has been blessed to having a bigger family. I have 6 of my own and I would not give the world for them.

Michelle - posted on 05/16/2012

tracy never heard about Japan loosing so many people and could becoming extict. That is awful. Thank you for letting me know about that. That is something that I want to look into myself. I believe that God wants people to grow and bring more of their kind into the world.

Tracy - posted on 05/16/2012

This is strictly a statistic I heard on the radio only yesterday and I have not verified this or done the math. I simply heard it and this thread was brought to mind. "According to recent research Japan is in danger of becoming extinct...in 1000 years due to the average family sizes decreasing to one or no children at the present time." This is JUST a tidbit I heard and do not have an opinion on this one way or another. Best to families of all sizes.

Sapphire - posted on 05/16/2012

Quoting Elizabeth, " It gives me hope to know there are still people like you out there in the American wasteland."

Then leave! Grass is green on the other side! Your analogy of equating large families to the American wasteland is laughable, at best, and fails to make comparison connection.

This is your problem Elizabth: You have failed to show empathy towards another mother in her decisions to raise an only child. You have belittled and insulted the status of an only child and have nothing in your posts are kind and compassionate. I feel sorry for you in respect to having blinders on in life.

In contrast, I personally could not care at all how many children a family raises. It's not my business to do so. Adopt a dozen if you like. But your "holier-than-thou" attitude is ugly.

Jayce - posted on 05/16/2012

@Elizabeth Luyben - I find your post incredibly insulting and narrow minded. I am the mother of an only child, who is not lonely. I have absolutely no desire to have any more children and I refuse to let the ignorant opinion of others make me feel bad about it. It's my theory that those who use the phrase 'lonely only' are unhappy with their decision to have more and are trying to drag parents of onlys down with them.

Sherri - posted on 05/15/2012

I actually know several people who have large families personally and I know several people who have only one or even none. So it isn't horrible if someone doesn't want a large family and it doesn't make them horrible if they do.

Although I know I don't know you personally Emma but I am one that would have loved 6+ children. God had a different plan though and blessed us with 4.

Stifler's - posted on 05/15/2012

I don't think it's normal to want 5 kids or more. No one I know actually wants that many kids. Sorry. You make it sound like anyone with less is a horrible person or doesn't want to breed like a rabbit is selfish.

Jodi - posted on 05/15/2012

"It gives me hope to know there are
still people like you out there in the American wasteland."

You're quite good at making your opinion offensive towards others aren't you? Do you really think people are going to find your view remotely interesting and worth consideration when you feel the need to make sure you insult people the way you do?

Elizabeth - posted on 05/15/2012

Roxanne,

You are not "weird" for wishing you had more than 5 children.
You are one of the "normal" ones. Believe it! I really enjoyed
your message. It gives me hope to know there are
still people like you out there in the American wasteland.

Brittany - posted on 05/13/2012

I think people should have as many as they want. Some only want one, while others want 5 or more. There are so many factors that go into deciding that number.

What it all comes down to is making the child(ren) happy. That can happen as easily with one as 20. It all comes down to the parents and what they can handle and provide.

Toni - posted on 05/13/2012

It is incredibly rude to misspell someone's name especially when it is right below for you to copy...my name is TONI, last time I checked I was female I don't think I've changed sex overnight!

My mathematics were purely to show the population difference if everyone chose to have 6 children instead of 2, I know that it is unlikely and in reality some of the siblings will have no children, some one, some two, some three, some four, some will adopt etc and likewise there will be variance within the family of two children, I wasn't suggesting it as pure fact just an example of the huge population difference!

"why should those of us who are responsible enough to care about what our future generations will inherit have to be punished for others reckless disregard of how their actions affect the environment".

The above sentence was aimed at the suggestion those who choose to have small families due to environmental responsibility should just adopt because she didn't care about the affect having multiple children had on anything, it wasn't aimed at all people who have larger families than one or two children...it looks like her comment was deleted though because I cannot find it now, I guess I should have copy and pasted to make it clear I was responding to a particular poster and her flippant disregard!


You said you were 52 and have 4 children in your first post so unless you were lying I know how many children you have...YOU don't know how many I have, I haven't divulged that here, I currently have 2 children (you probably guessed that though hey), I completely understand looking at babies and children and wanting more, I wanted 3-4 children, I doubt it will happen though not biological children anyway (due to a plethora of reasons). I haven't ruled out adoption once my children are older, like I said I adore children they have a magic about them!

It is incredibly selfish to only worry about what you makes you feel good and not care about the world, bringing children into the world makes you feel good (it makes me feel good too, I love the rush I get from knowing I have created another life, that I have been blessed with the responsibility of ensuring this little being becomes a successful, caring, responsible adult) but what world are you bringing them into, I don't want my grandkids or great grandkids to have to fight for basic things like food and water, I want them to be able to reach their potential and to be the best they can be...to do that we all need to care about more than our own satisfaction and needs.

Oh honey, I know WHY people want and have more kids, I understand it and can see both the positives and negatives...I'm lucky enough to be part of both a very happy successful large family and a very successful happy small family but I can also see the dynamics of other large families where there is huge sibling rivalry and they are not so happy, likewise of other small families...the size isn't what makes a family happy!

Karla - posted on 05/12/2012

Whatever.
(fyi, I only read about half the posts here.)
I think family size is a personal decision.
I refuse to judge people based on a conscience decision to have children, but I admit I do judge those that keep having one "accident" after another.

Anyway, Just thought I'd chime in with a
Happy Mother's Day to One and All!

peace and love mommies!

Jodi - posted on 05/12/2012

"1) The most unhappy childhoods were those endured by lonely 1 only children.

Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my

comprehension. Having siblings is one of life's greatest gifts.



2) The most unhappy adults are those who did

not have children or had only one or 2 and they never see them or any grandchildren." "



Allow me to suggest that maybe you see these people only because they are seeking a therapist, not because the majority of only children are unhappy. They come to you BECAUSE they are unhappy, duh! Use your logic.



Being a therapist doesn't really make you an authority on the topic, only an authority on your particular clients. Can you give me anecdotes on the large number of happy ones? No, didn't think so.



If you are going to express something as more than your personal opinion, at least back it up with some REAL research, not anecdotal bullshit.



Personally, I don't care how many children other people have, as long as I'm not the one having to support them, or carry their ass because they did an *Octomom*. Just as they shouldn't care how many I have, as long as I am not imposing on their choices. But to try and JUSTIFY your choices by putting the choices of others down is offensive. When you say something like "Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my comprehension." you are being offensive. You could have expressed it as "I personally don't understand only wanting to have one child, but that's me". But no, you didn't. You deliberately phrased it in a way that would be offensive to others. And then you wonder why people are offended? Hmmmm......let me think.

Sneaky - posted on 05/12/2012

LMAO @ "Children are our only hope for this messed up world"

REALLY?????

The children that we choose to bring into this world, for whatever selfish reasons we have (and don't kid yourself - it is an act of PURE SELFISHNESS to have a child) are responsible for cleaning up the mess we have made of the world???

That right there is the reason the world is so messed up, because it is better to stick your head in then sand and enjoy the bliss of multiple children, because it is THEIR responsibility to fix the world.

As a training psychologist, it really sounds like someone has an entitlement complex....

Krista - posted on 05/12/2012

Unfortunately I don't, so no, I am not defending myself for bringing a slew of rapacious environment destroyers into your over-populated world. There are
some of us here who don't observe & appreciate the innocence, indescribable beauty, freshness and promise of a child and NOT WANT MORE. To us this is not about logic, numbers, bare facts, semantics, the opinions of others, or the world, it's about following our hearts and dreams and fully embracing the gift of children and that's what I was attempting to explain. There is no possible way you could EVER understand that. So I simply ask that you and your comrades stop bashing people like the Duggars, get off your high horse and just maybe try to have an inkling of why some people have more than 1 or 2 children.

For someone who's not defending herself, you sound awfully tetchy...

And you know what? If you want to have a brood, then that IS your choice. But don't insult everybody's intelligence by downplaying the effect that you're having on the planet. If you want to have a bunch of kids, fine. But OWN what you are doing. Don't respond to the solid data about overpopulation and water consumption by sticking your fingers in your ears and saying that it's all a bunch of lies. Because it's not. The world population is what it is. You can't explain that away or say that the numbers are made up. The numbers regarding water consumption are well-established and peer reviewed. Those numbers are not going away.

So yeah, if you want to have 20 kids then you just go right ahead. But calling solid scientific data "half-baked theories and hearsay" is, in my opinion, YOUR way of justifying your attitudes about large families. And hey, who gives a shit if our great-grandkids wind up fighting in a war over the few freshwater resources left in the world? YOU got to have the warm 'n' fuzzy feeling of indescribable beauty, freshness and promise.

Sapphire - posted on 05/12/2012

To Elizabeth, and anyone else who feels that they cannot comprehennd WHY a mom would intentionally have 1 child. So to quote you, "Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my comprehension."



So here is your comprehensive list to include oin your professional education as a therapist, assuming you hold advanced higher degrees in a specialty area. Please start using this in practice:



WHY I HAVE ONE CHILD



1. I am not as maternal as I expected to be

2. Atfer 3 miscarriages, including a vey short stint with infertility, and an attempt at adoption, I was emotionally drained

3. My son arrived 1 month premature, very unexpected, and I was emotionally not ready

4. I felt like a failure at breastfeeding, and my son was small to begin with- failure to thrive started to set in

5. I went undiagnosed postpartum depression for at least 6 months

6. I realized I missed work terribly

7. I honestly have no yearning, urge, or desire for more kids

8. I felt that I didn't bond with my son

9. I did not "feel" like a mother until he was easily 10-11 months old

10. I realized I honestly don't like babies, and not ashamed to say it either

11. My pregnancy was nerve-wracking, wondering if I was going to m/c again, even after I got the proper medical assistance; nothing helped me to relax during pregnancy

12. Hubby & I were not on the same page during those early months

13. I read and researched benefits and advantages of raising an only child, and lo and behold, it turned out hubby was doing the same.



I am so at peace with my decision to not have any more children. UNWANTED children. Get it?! *YOU* don't get to knock down another parent's decision as to how many children they have. *YOU* defend large familes, I defend small families.



My son may be only, but not lonely, and sure as hell not spoiled. He has so many friends in our neighborhood, involved in karate and other sports, very close in age with his cousins, one of them only 6 months apart. All 3 boys attend the same school. Is it a sibling replacement? NO! But trust me when I say that I know many spoiled with sibling children! It is my job as a prent to see to it that he is resposnbile, does his chores, homework, kind to others, a good person.



So now yo uare educated as to WHY someone choses not to bring in another unwanted life. For the record, my husband and his brother hate each other. Right now my sister is on my permanent shit list. Siblings are a blessing?!

Sapphire - posted on 05/12/2012

Quoting Elizabeth, "I can tell you that as a therapist & mother of 4 with 52 years of life experience:



1) The most unhappy childhoods were those endured by lonely 1 only children.

Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my

comprehension. Having siblings is one of life's greatest gifts.



2) The most unhappy adults are those who did

not have children or had only one or 2 and they never see them or any grandchildren."



Just because your 52 years of life experience and career as a therapist, mom of 4....that means you are an authority on raising only children? It is of your personal opinion based on possibly the clients YOU serve that may be unhappy only children.



*I* make it my business as a parent to see to it that my only child is active, engaged, has plenty to do and therefore not unhappy for the sole reason he does not have a sibling. I think YOU are the selfish one to post any kind of comment suggesting how god-awful of a parent I am for intentionally beinging 1 child into this world! How he will grow up to be this inhumane, unkind, spoiled child becasue of his status! REALLY?! You wan tto see how many spoiled students I teach who have siblings! You can not dictate HOW many kids a mother should or should not have and I sure as hell refute your statement that having siblings is such a life treasure! My child is only, not lonely. I cannot even fathom bringing another child into this world for the sole purpose of giving my son a sibling. I am not ever thinking of grandchildren at this point in my life!



So how about this- I have a laundry list of about 12 reasons why *I* don't want another child. What's it to you? I'll call you out on your generic stereotyped statements as well. MANY kids can be unhappy for a plethora of reasons. I teach high school and I can go down teh roster and identify what might make certain kids unhappy, and sure as hell, not one will give the reasons, "becasue I am an only child."



Many adults are unahppy for many reasons as well-again, this may or may not mean due to the fact of not having children.

Sapphire - posted on 05/12/2012

Elizabeth, your post is venting, ranting, and I understand you are angry about the negative criticism about other people's comments having a large family. But that's all it is- criticism. No one said you need to like or accept other people's opinions on a topic. For as many people out there who are opposed to large families, you will find just as many people in favor of small families. You cannot even bring in the Duggar family becasue they are an extreme- and being a public figure EXTREME leads them open to public scrutiny. This is also an International message forum, and moms from all over the world can relate to their own area. Also, you simply cannot disupute the FACT that the world population IS at an all-time high. That is why in many public schools in the U.S. are overcrowded, filled to capacity, bursting at the seems in some areas. And when the economy shifts and changes, then you find 2 families merging into one home. One home built for oh, maybe 5 people, but now housing 10 people. Yes- that is overcrowding. But back to the original point, it is of an OPINION that many hold that having large families is not responsible. I'm on the fence with that opinion, I agree somewhat, and then part f it I don't. I hold zero religious value into the number of kids a family has. An opinion that you clearly disagree with. But certainly no need to get butt-hurt angry over! Honestly, lighten up. Enjoy your Mother's Day with your 4 children. (yes, in your post on page 2 you said in a condescending manner)



Signed, Sapphire

PROUD Mom of One

Johnny - posted on 05/12/2012

Children are a great hope and a precious gift. It is our complete responsibility to them to pass on a world that they can thrive in rather than struggle to survive. Placing too many people on the planet does not give them a chance for a better future, it does not give them some sort of unlimited potential, it takes away from them the opportunity to have enough resources to sustain the population, you can ignore this if you so choose, but those that do not aren't doing so because of some lack of love for children.

You are reading into our comments something that simply is NOT there. I adore kids. I chose a life of working with them and right now I am joyfully expecting my second. It will definitely be my final biological child, but if the future leads us to have more kids by adoption or fostering, we are definitely open to that. My husband and I have agreed that unless something unforeseen happens we will be fostering children as our family grows older. It is something we have done before and will do again. If that was to lead to adoption, then that will be the right thing.

If I did not believe that our planet is severely over-populated and at risk at this time, I would have more biological children. We can afford it and it would be something that would bring us great joy. But the operative word in that sentence is US. It would be nice for my husband and I to have a large family. But it would be the wrong thing to do for our children and all of those to come. So we choose to sacrifice our selfish desires in order to hopefully make this world a better place, or to at least do our part. We work hard to live life with a small footprint, and not having more children is a part of that. Just like it would be easier and nicer to have two cars and use disposable products, it would be great to have more kids. I actually do very much understand the desire to have a large family. But there are bigger concerns than what is nicest and easiest for US.

It is true, I am angry about this. It actually viscerally disgusts me, and I find it incredibly immoral that people actively chose to ignore "logic, numbers, bare facts" that show that we are harming the planet because they instead selfishly go with "following our hearts and dreams and fully embracing the gift of children" without stopping to think how those currently embraced children will one day be effected. To me, it is just like choosing to speed outrageously down the highway while drinking a beer and smoking with the windows up while your kids are in the back seat of the car. They might make it through today and have fun doing it, but one day it is going to catch up with them.

Not only am I responsible to my children for all the days of my life (no, I'm not just counting the days until I'm "free" of them, I don't believe in that), I am responsible to my children for all of their life and the lives of their offspring too. I simply do not have the right to do whatever the hell I want now regardless of the results down the line.

And I suggest before you accuse of using skewed mathematics and half-baked theories, you should spend some time doing research outside of politically and religiously biased websites. You know, take a look at some actual peer-reviewed and tested scientific studies.

Elizabeth - posted on 05/12/2012

Sherri, I feel sad that you should have to defend yourself here on this site for having
more than 1 or 2 children. It's pathetic. Children are our only hope for this messed up
world. I say kudos to you for making the sacrifices and stepping up to the challenge
of raising a bigger family than is typical in our culture. Keep up the good work. You
are not alone.

Elizabeth - posted on 05/12/2012

Here's just a few examples Tony M (not including YOUR own detailed, quasi mathematical condemnation of those "irresponsible" people having large families), which ends with YOUR words: "why should those of us who are responsible enough to care about what our future generations will inherit have to be punished for others reckless disregard of how their actions affect the environment".



There are too many for me to copy and produce them ALL for you but here's a sample of what I am responding to here:



'i think a family should have as many as they want to that doesn't include bullshit reasons of "being blessed with as many that god wants me to have". god doesn't give a shit if you use birth control. the fucking pill wasn't even around back then for god to state "thou shalt not use Yaz.". fack, that reason annoys me sooooooo much. use your goddamned brain and have as many as you can comfortably afford.

i do think we are an overpopulated planet and have limited resources, so keeping that in mind would be good for future generations -if you give a crap about them at all, or the earth. but hey, you won't be around then, so why give a shit eh?'



"How many of you recycling large families will be recycling housing, jobs, hospitals, school, roads, transportation and recreational facilities for your children? You absolutely can not recycle and re use your way out of the direct impact each person makes on Earth. These big ticket items are what use up most of our rescources and then add all the other stuff like food and diapers on top of that. It is not sustainable to continue with large families "



"For the love of Mike, people. If we look at anatomically modern humans, it has taken us over 200,000 YEARS to get to a population of 1 billion.



It only took another 207 years to get to 7 billion.



How that does not terrify the living snot out of you people is just beyond me."



"I can understand the sentiment behind wanting a large family, sure. But why not, after your initial two kids, adopt children? It'd be win-win. You'd still have your large brood, but would not be contributing to exponential population growth."



DOES THIS HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM RESPONDING TO???



You have NO IDEA how many children I have. I did not even say that I, myself have a "LARGE BROOD". Unfortunately I don't, so no, I am not defending myself for bringing a slew of rapacious environment destroyers into your over-populated world. There are

some of us here who don't observe & appreciate the innocence, indescribable beauty, freshness and promise of a child and NOT WANT MORE. To us this is not about logic, numbers, bare facts, semantics, the opinions of others, or the world, it's about following our hearts and dreams and fully embracing the gift of children and that's what I was attempting to explain. There is no possible way you could EVER understand that. So I simply ask that you and your comrades stop bashing people like the Duggars, get off your high horse and just maybe try to have an inkling of why some people have more than 1 or 2 children.

Toni - posted on 05/12/2012

Elizabeth it sounds to me like you are the one trying to justify having the number of children you have, not anyone else. Nobody has said they can't wait for their children to grow so they don't have to bother looking after them, I know for most of the women here those with large families and with small families they will look after their children for their entire lives, you don't stop being a mum because your child doesn't live with you anymore (grown up).


I know personally cost hasn't come into the number of children I want/ have, I haven't had children so they can care for me in old age, I had them because I adore children and the magic they bring to life, children complete the world but there is no denying that every single person on this planet is depleting it's resources...that isn't always a bad, nobody has said having children is bad.

Do you realise you are guilty of doing precisely the thing you are moaning about to those who choose to have 1or 2 children? You have repeatedly belittled those who chose to have 1 or 2 children as anti child, unable to fully allow children into their lives, wanting to get rid of children as soon as they can, not appreciating children or understanding children's abilities, and suggesting that because they are small families they can't possibly be truly happy or are jealous of large families...it sounds like you are the one doing the attacking because you feel defensive, you are the one who feels she must justify your actions!

Sapphire - posted on 05/11/2012

Elizabeth, your post is confusing. Who exactly, or, what post are you refering to?

Elizabeth - posted on 05/11/2012

Wow, just popped in here again and am met with a whole lot of anger,

negativity, skewed mathematics, half-baked theories & hearsay about the

doom and gloom situation of the planet, all amounting to

downright horrible attacks upon those who dare to welcome more than 1 or 2

children into their lives. I am not even surprised. I have been observing this sort

of behaviour for years & enduring the attacks personally.

If you actually percieve children as some sort of burden, or an

expense (in some cases even a water-devouring, rapacious strain upon the

planet) then how could you ever understand the concept of being open to

children as the limitless, immeasurable possibilites that they truly are? No wonder

the mere thought, not to mention the sight of a large family might make you feel

judgemental. However, I think that the real trigger is that lack of understanding

the concept at all. There has to be some part of you that KNOWS there is a deeper

meaning to your lives than how many dollars must be doled out to support each child,

how much this is "costing' you & how quickly you can raise them in order to be "free"

of the burden so you can get on with your lives. Ulitimately you have said a vehement

"NO" to more children & done whatever you need to in order to avoid more children, you simply MUST justify your own choices. The mere fact that there are actually happy, prosperous, successful large families must really be irritating.

Tracy - posted on 05/11/2012

I personally have 3 sisters and we are not "close" but family is family and anytime I need them they are there and vice versa. I am a single mom with 2 girls and my sister is a single mom with a son, the oldest is married with 3, and the youngest married with 2. My parents married later in life (mom 29 dad 32). My father passed away February 2, 2011. He had diabetes, kidney failure, and finally pancreatic cancer that he fought through for 3 1/2 years with trips to Omaha, NE, Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN and Des Moines, IA. Prior to that my mother had a stroke in 2005 and lost visual depth perception and has a blind spot in her left field of vision plus some mental functioning. These trips had to be attended to by me and my sisters and between the four of us we juggled work, babysitting, and whatever other events we had in order to get my dying father to these appointments because there was no one else and now we have taken over where dad left off and now transport my mother to her doctors, grief counselors, ER for her paraplegic migraines, and she currently has a condition called white matter disease which is similar to alzheimer's in nature so she needs checked on frequently. If I was an only child I would not have been able to do my part in taking care of the people who brought me into this world and who did the same for me. With 4 of us we share the decisions especially the upcoming one of putting my mom in the home and when she is there making sure she has company as far as who can visit and when. In the meantime my single parent sister with one son has been called to the school repeatedly for behavior issues and he is only 6. He is extremely smart but has had all of her attention since day one so he has issues if he does not have her attention whenever he wants it. He always wants to play with my girls because there isn't anyone else close (they live 3 miles from town). He will be left to take care of his mom by himself which if you figure he has no company growing up then it should be fair that she will have no company when she is old and feeble. Of course that is assuming that he will not have a premature death for any reason, god forbid. I can not imagine only having one child and then losing them because you can't just have another one to "replace" them of course that is assuming a marriage would survive such a lose. I guess there are pros and cons on both sides but ours is the only society that sticks our elderly into homes for others to care for them instead of caring for them our selves, maybe that is why they are living longer of course that is not to say the quality of life is any better. My sister wanted another child but she realized she could not raise another one by herself because of the problems she already has with her son and getting married or even dating is out of the question because of her son's demands for attention. I guess it depends on your own values as to what a family is to you and what role you think they are going to play in your life after they graduate and start their own lives.

Amy - posted on 05/10/2012

We have 2 girls. I wanted to try for a boy but my husband didn't. He said if he knew we would have a boy he would, but he didn't want 3 girls. LOL. I say you should only have as many as you can afford. I say it's nice to have a sibling, but if you can only afford one or had a very difficult pregnancy then don't have any more. That's just my opinion. Lol. I say you just decide as a couple and do what is right for you guys.

Sapphire - posted on 05/09/2012

having an only child is the smartest decision in the world for US. For MY family. I get utterly repulsed when people make claims that only children are lonely. No- that's not true in many cases. Are you saying that chldren with siblings never get lonely? Having a sibling means instantaneous relationship and playmate? My husband & brother never got along, hated each other as kids. Not much better as adults. My child may be only, but never lonely. He has many friends, close with his cousins, sometimes too close at school, and after school. My son is onvolved with karate and other activities. Only...but not lonely. Plus it's my job as a parent to see to it that he is not lonely. I am saddened to hear stories of adult only children that say they were lonley. Trust me, I hear it form my mother. But she had no real extended family an d,limited frineds. We are a happy and content famiyl of 3 and I refuse to bring in another child into this world for the sole reason of providining my son with an unwanted playmate.

Rachael - posted on 05/09/2012

I think it depends on the people in the family. Ultimately, as many as you want as long as you can afford to care for them and aren't too emotionally taxed.

Mabel - posted on 05/09/2012

It was just me until the parents decided to adopt my cousins baby boy when I was almost 8.It was nice to have a baby brother but the parents put too much infeces on him being adopted and over compensated for it by giving him everything.Now he can't keep a job and has been to jail a few times plus lies about everything.He even stole from my son when he was a newborn.Now I just have the one kid and he has a few friends in his pre k class plus a cousin close in age.I spend a lot of time with him too so I don't think he misses anything.