I need a heated debate here - I need help!

Dawn - posted on 06/18/2009

Call CPS now. That child needs the love and attention from loving adults and his mom isn't one of them. You can report her confidentialy. Its sounds like its up to you to get help for that boy. Good luck

Stephanie - posted on 06/18/2009

I would call child services. If there is love for the child she will follow the programs to get him back.

Becky - posted on 06/18/2009

Quoting Veronica:

I do care for this person - and its unfair that she is in this same vicious mind cycle with herself (she herself is like a teenager in a 32 year old body) -- I come from a crappy bringing up myself (not nearly as bad as her) but i too looked up to my mom as a strong person and i too thought the same thing, " if she can do it, i can do it" I am by no means being ignorant in any word of the sense - as i said before we've been trying to get help to this woman and her child - im just at wits ends!! When i found out about the pants peeing it threw me into this -- and i just needed some help in what other directions i could take!!
You are all wonderful women, and have big hearts - thank you for prayers for this little boy, and helping me find my strength!

What a sweet compliment about all of us who are offering advice, but the real story is how you care so much for this family and want to do whatever it takes to help Mom, and more importantly, her son.  I'm sure all those directly involved with her are very frightened for her son, and he's definitely the FIRST priority for getting to safety and becoming healthy and happy.  Like I said of Savannah, now knowing that you faced serious struggles, too: how wonderful that you were able to come through and be so strong on the other side; and how admirable that you are using your strength to help a mom and child in even worse shape. 

I come from a healthy, happy, stable home, and cannot imagine the trauma that a difficult upbringing causes.  The hardest thing I ever faced was a 6-year abusive marriage, and after 5 of the 6 years, decided to get out so that my daughters would be able to say "Mom got through bad stuff; so can I!"  But, I am so humbled by women who fought through a terrible childhood, abusive parents, and strings of bad choices that cause permanent heartache and came out of it all stronger and fully resolved to give their children far better than they had.  You are in such an amazing position to help your friend do that, too, if she's willing.  You're being such a wonderful friend to her, and such a wonderful adult example to her son by getting him immediate help and safety, and showing him what "caring" and "loving" really looks like by looking out for his well-being first.  You're all definitely in my thoughts and prayers - that family is SO BLESSED to have a friend like you!

~Jennifer - posted on 06/18/2009

There's a reason she doesn't have her other children with her, and if she's continuing to put yet another child in jeopardy, it's pretty apparent she's never going to change.
Make the call.

Constacne - posted on 06/18/2009

Okay I am not trying to be a "B" but it is not about getting help for her. It is about what is best for that child.
Do you think that he needs to be with her? A child needs more than love. Even if it does hurt your friend you need to think about that child. She can put her big girl panties on. He son doesn't even have that option.
You obviously know the answer or else you wouldn't of even asked this question.

Bev - posted on 06/18/2009

Keep us posted....this little boy needs a chance at life...a good life. Not the one he has now. Sometimes some one else needs to take a stance and say what he can't say! The poor child....heartbreaking!!

Veronica - posted on 06/18/2009

I do care for this person - and its unfair that she is in this same vicious mind cycle with herself (she herself is like a teenager in a 32 year old body) -- I come from a crappy bringing up myself (not nearly as bad as her) but i too looked up to my mom as a strong person and i too thought the same thing, " if she can do it, i can do it" I am by no means being ignorant in any word of the sense - as i said before we've been trying to get help to this woman and her child - im just at wits ends!! When i found out about the pants peeing it threw me into this -- and i just needed some help in what other directions i could take!!

You are all wonderful women, and have big hearts - thank you for prayers for this little boy, and helping me find my strength!

Tammy - posted on 06/18/2009

Calling CPS is the best thing you can do.

Veronica - posted on 06/18/2009

Ok, thus far, she is in school right now - but i did talk to a former babysitter of hers, who absolutely loves the little boy, and is going to help me - she said if she can get him for herself she would! lol So, i have someone on my side who will take the stand with me!

Jessica - posted on 06/18/2009

I would call social services just to see what you can do as an outsider looking in. If she's not going to help her own child someone else should be. That is so sad. I don't care what kind of drug it is and you do while pregnant it's gonna damage that child.

Girlio - posted on 06/18/2009

Becky! How insightful and kind! I appreciate that you noticed what others have overcome to become what they are. I know it's a little "off topic" for this post, but you are right. You really made my day, let alone the other ladies day! Thanx!

Girlio - posted on 06/18/2009

Becky! How insightful and kind! I appreciate that you noticed what others have overcome to become what they are. I know it's a little "off topic" for this post, but you are right. You really made my day, let alone the other ladies day! Thanx!

Becky - posted on 06/18/2009

Quoting Savannah:

You have to call. She doesn't even have to know that it was you. She may love him and she may be your friend but this is not fair to the little guy. Coming from a terrible child life, I know how much it can screw you up, I mean, you can make excuses for youself all you want (I'm talking about her, not you) and yaddayaddayadda so that people feel bad for you, and that also enables a person to continue doing what they are doing. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions and act like an adult or parent. (again, her, not you). I could make the excuse that because my parents treated me bad and that I did drugs growing up that its okay to treat my kids that way because "it's what I know" but that's crap. We all know better.
Besides, if you do call DSS it is the best way for BOTH of them to get the help they need. And it really sounds like she needs the help almost more than he does. People with those kinds of problems have a hard time being parents. This way she could realize that she needs counselling and the little guy could be put into a better situation.
It's what a good friend would do. I can tell that you love them both. This is the way to help them both.

I agree with you completely, but wanted to also point out something specific in your post to Veronica.  I loved reading your post, because I love the level of maturity and morale you show by not letting yourself be destroyed by an awful childhood.  Awesome, for you, and your children!!  Not only can they see Mommy as a very strong woman that proves anything can be overcome, but they will be able to apply that example when they face any life struggles, too (i.e., "if Mom could get through all that, I can get through this!").  That, as I'm sure, you know, is something to be unbelievably proud of.  The whole world lets people use things like what you've been through as excuses to allow the cycle to continue, and even with that, you refused to let your children be hurt by the same things.  I can't even explain how much I respect and admire women like you!

The reason I wanted to point that out is because, Veronica, I know you love your friend.  I know you don't want anything bad to happen to her, either.  If you get child & family services involved immediately, not only will you quite possibly save the little boy's life, but you'll be able to help your friend become the kind of person that Savannah has become.  I don't know where y'all are from, but here in Alabama, we have programs that place children in temporary foster care (NOT group homes for lots of kids) while the parents are, with the state's help, putting their lives in order.  I'm sure one concern is that your friend would lose her son permanently.  There may be programs where y'all live that, provided she's willing to get help, could turn this family around and bring them back together when she's got her life in order.  I know you want the best for her, and the best thing for anyone like this is to help them have an incredible success story like Savannah's!

Renee - posted on 06/18/2009

The only thing that I can add is that you may want to say a prayer...

Good luck!

Alex - posted on 06/18/2009

This story broke my heart - I'm in the UK & we've had several high profile cases of child neglect in the last year that have ended tragically, with the neighbours/ friends on tv saying 'if only I'd done something sooner' PLEASE don't become one of these people - report her, and do it soon. Give her little boy a chance to be a real child & have a loving family & give her the chance to clean her act up so that she stands a chance of being a real mum. Don't beat yourself up about reporting a 'friend' (if she is a friend) she needs help & much more importantly her son needs help & he needs it NOW. Good luck - I'm sure you know in your heart the right thing to do. xx

Emily - posted on 06/18/2009

call child protective services. Tell them what you have posted, they will have to at least make a follow up visit. Then if they determine there is a problem they will take if from there. It's completely anonymous. Remember, a neglected child becomes an adult someday. he's should be helped to become productive, not angry and potentially dangerous.

Veronica - posted on 06/18/2009

I feel exactly how you women feel - and I am going to confront her, and see if she will be willign to get help - otherwise im reporting her to the proper authorities -- I will let you all know what goes down. Thank you soo much for your help - I do love these people, but I am very concerned for his wellfare -- there were alot of times i thought things were getting better for her, and then bam, i find out more crap from her - Im drawing the line - I cannot sit back anymore and watch this innocent child suffer -- thanks again!!

Linda - posted on 06/18/2009

The Department of Health & Human Services need to be called IMMEDIATELY. The poor child will have even more learning disabilities if this behavior of the mothers continues. The childs health and well-being are of grave concern to me. You can call anonymously if you do not want your name involved. Social services will help the mother get help (or direct her to the right places). The child needs to be in a caring, loving home and to be able to be a little boy. You said the little boy was 5 yrs old and still not potty trained. That is abuse as well. Doesn't the child have Grandparents who can intervene? The woman needs help before it is too late for the boy. I was in a similar situation a number of years ago. The children in question were living with thier father and were being physically & mentally abused. I took care of there wounds for a while, but it got worse for them in the home. I called and DHHS investigated. The father frightened the children into saying all was well. I year later the father tried to sexually assault the oldest (11yr)(daughter). She called this time and the truth came out for the past abuse.He served 6 years in jail for the abuse of his children. Unfortunately they have 'scars' that will be there all their lives.This little boy needs loving intervention before he is completely scared for life.I URGE you to call the proper authorities immediately. My heart goes out to that little boy. May the Lord guide you in your decisions.God Bless You and that little boy.

Diane - posted on 06/18/2009

You tell her how you feel first. Tell her that either she gets help, or you will have to report her for verbal abuse and neglect. Then, give her a timeline and make the call.

Esther - posted on 06/18/2009

I have only read half your post and I'm already thinking that I would call Child Protective Services immediately. Today. And again tomorrow if need be. (p.s. I read the rest of your post too, it only made the need to call more urgent)

Kay - posted on 06/18/2009

As much as I hate CPS for what they did to me, I have to agree - CALL THEM. You can call CPS and report cases anonymously, so your "friend" will never know that you reported it. In Texas, you are REQUIRED to report any case of abuse that you suspect; otherwise, you are liable to be charged with child abuse yourself if something happens to the child and someone finds out you suspected but didn't report it.

Stephanie - posted on 06/18/2009

Ahhhhhhhhh baby, think of the child. Its not betraying a mom by alerting the proper agencies, you are giving that chold a chance

Sapphire - posted on 06/18/2009

Fact #1-This child's life is in serious danger

Fact #2-This mother is unfit to be a parent-You MUST report her to the proper child welfare authorities

Fact #3-It will be on your conscious if something tragic happened to this 5 year old and you did not report her



It is not plesant to sit back and watch the abuse of a child, and it's also uncomfortable to report another parent. But this kiddo may not even survive childhood if NO ONE intervenes. This child needs a voice, an advocate. You could be that person for him.

Lin - posted on 06/18/2009

Call, call, call. She's apparently made a lot of her choices that have gotten her to this situation. Someone needs to be an advocate for this boy so he has the chance to make his life a good one.

Savannah - posted on 06/18/2009

You have to call. She doesn't even have to know that it was you. She may love him and she may be your friend but this is not fair to the little guy. Coming from a terrible child life, I know how much it can screw you up, I mean, you can make excuses for youself all you want (I'm talking about her, not you) and yaddayaddayadda so that people feel bad for you, and that also enables a person to continue doing what they are doing. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions and act like an adult or parent. (again, her, not you). I could make the excuse that because my parents treated me bad and that I did drugs growing up that its okay to treat my kids that way because "it's what I know" but that's crap. We all know better.

Besides, if you do call DSS it is the best way for BOTH of them to get the help they need. And it really sounds like she needs the help almost more than he does. People with those kinds of problems have a hard time being parents. This way she could realize that she needs counselling and the little guy could be put into a better situation.

It's what a good friend would do. I can tell that you love them both. This is the way to help them both.

Michelle - posted on 06/18/2009

I have my diploma in Early Childhood Education and work in a daycare centre and I know that if I even suspected let alone knew that this was going on I would be on the phone with the Children's Aid Society (I love in Ontario Canada) to report this situation. I see SO many counts of what would be classed as child abuse. Even if it's not physical it IS emotional abuse and NO child deserves to go through that. I know that this lady may be someone you consider a friend but please do the right thing for the child and get him out of that situation! I will be thinking about this little guy!

Jennifer - posted on 06/18/2009

If you are a friend you would talk to her about your concerns first, if she is not willing to listen and possible get some help where needed than I would look into other options..there is nothing worse than someone who can't confront someone about how they feel and runs to tell on them..if she loves her child she will listen to you and get the help she needs.

Lyndsey - posted on 06/18/2009

she might love her son dearly but it sounds to me that she was in no way physically or emotionally ready to have a child. from what you have describe i would call your local department for children and families and tell them everything you just posted. this mom needs help and the sooner the better. you have to ask yourself if the child would be better staying with his mom where he is abused or in foster care where someone will treat him love and respect.

Girlio - posted on 06/18/2009

HOLY COW! I find this appalling! Unfortunately as far as the mother is concerned, she can't be helped if she isn't willing to help herself. And yes she may love her son, but it sounds to me like a selfish love, not unconditional, which is what being a parent is all about.



As for the child, he CAN be helped, he does need help, do you want him to grow up thinking that this is how people are normally treated? That this is normal behaviour, that this is how females treat males? How children are supposed to be treated? Its a vicious circle, and if he stays in this situation I fear that it will carry onto his adult life. OK she had a not so good upbringing, and all other obstacles in life. There are others out there that also had this. Is it fair to have another child, another generation brought up the way she was? In my opinion, I would in fact call child services, IF you want it to be anonymous, then use a payphone state your concerns, and ask child services if this warrants their attention. If it does, then you have done the right thing, and if it doesn't warrant their attention they will tell you and nothing is lost. To me that isn't "bad parenting" that is neglect.



Personally, I don't think that anything you do or say to her directly will work, and for all involved it's best that you bite your tongue and help the little one while you are around. At least then you can be aware of some of the going ons, if you mention it to her she may get mad and write you off as a "friend" then there is noone for that little boy and she will entirely suspect it was you that called CS on her and make your life miserable.Maybe losing her son would be enough to straighten her out and get the help that she needs, and possibly get him back a little bit later. Otherwise, if you do nothing, in a sense you are enabling her to continue on this destructive life path. As with all drug heads, they have to be enabled to continue going. (please don't think I am putting you down if you don't go to child services, or that I am in any which way trying to offend you, that is not at all my intent)

Abby - posted on 06/18/2009

im sorry but u must call someone now. this poor little boy shld not be so scared of his mummy that he wets his pants. reading this has broken my heart. that poor little boy. she may love him, but this child needs to be a little boy, he needs help and support, playing and fun. not abandonment, fear, and worry.

im truly upset by the whole story that little boy needs learning support, and surely a mum shld be the first person to jump at the chance of their child being helped if it's needed.

for the sake of that little boy, call someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Erica - posted on 06/18/2009

I think she already crossed the line. She is more than a bad mother she is neglectful and probably still on drugs. I would call social services immediately. I'm surprised the school system didn't yet. And why did the school let her have a choice in holding him back, never heard that one before. You can call anonymously.

Julie - posted on 06/18/2009

Without a doubt!!!! Call a child abuse hotline!! The child's safety and well-being come first!! After someone gets involved with the case, they will assist with counseling, parenting instruction and all of the issues she needs help with. It's a tough call to make, but just imagine yourself having to deal with this child being killed in some horrible accident that you could have prevented with one simple phone call!! Not only that, but the cycle will continue if not broken!!

Rebecca - posted on 06/18/2009

there are services thro ur local dhs department for woman who need that extra help where some one will come in and check on her and the child and make sure every thing is going okay for her but she has to want to do it...