It's ME or the DOG!!

Kate CP - posted on 12/02/2010

You know...in all my years of training dogs and behavioral consulting I have not ONCE met a dumb dog. I've met lots of dumb humans, though...

Sue - posted on 12/02/2010

Oh my god can I ever relate to this post. Thing is there are to stupid dogs here. I sriously wish they would just run away..lol. Thing is I get stuck looking after both of them, when they are his dogs. One is a jack russel and man its stupid and it stinks to high heaven. The other is a bulmastiff/ boxer mix and man what a pain. Like you said he chews everything and has a bad habit of jumping fences and getting out, thing is I dont care but heaven forbid if something happened to that damn dog. Grrrrrr. I have always told the other half that its us or the dogs. Trust me I do like animals but right now with the hustle and bustle of the house and four kids, those dogs just dont fit in. I also have more hate for the gogs and dont trust then because a month agao, my 7 year old daughter was attcked and bit up by the neighbours dog, a bulldog and I have know them and their dog for 10 years. That made me think that dogs are unpredictable. I always have to have my guard up now as that fear is in the back of my mind. I had him agree to have the dogs in cages for punishment reasons or if they are to out of control. I have been with this guy for 5 years now and we have fought alot about these animals. I am to the point where I did leave him because of it, but really that didnt solve anything. I guess my whole point of the situation is, ignore the dog and I dont mean neglect. Its his dog and it should be his responsibility.

Kate CP - posted on 12/01/2010

Anja: Wow. You're really wrong on a lot of points. First of all, shelters don't use a "heart stick". They either use gas (halothane or carbon dioxide) or they use sodium pentobarbitol. This chemical depresses the central nervous system, causing deep anesthesia, followed by apnea and cardiac arrest. It's a very humane method of euthanizing an animal. While gassing shelters do exist, they are in the minority.

Secondly, this family should never have gotten a dog in the first place. When the entire family isn't on board for a new pet then the answer is NO pet at all. Her fiance made a serious mistake and to belittle HER for it is wrong and is honestly just rude.

Thirdly, training a dog can be a lot more complicated than just reading a few websites. It takes a lot of time, patience, and in some cases expertise.

Lastly...not every family can or SHOULD have pets (especially dogs). Just because you think they're great doesn't mean that they are for every one. This dog would be much better off homed with a different family. Shame on YOU, Anja, for being so judgmental and rude.

Joy - posted on 12/01/2010

Wow Anja! That's really harsh of you! Not every person is an animal lover. This doesn't mean that we wish them any harm, we just aren't all wired to love dogs. And as for you "shaming" Iysha for mentioning wanting to let the dog just go? If you read that post, and her others after it, you'd see that she was venting, which we all need to do from time to time. I say shame on YOU for being so unsupportive to a woman who is (actually WAS....she resolved the issue) clearly struggling with a tough situation that she didn't create.
And yes, dogs can be great friends, to the right kind of people. It's not some moral charachter flaw to not love dogs. Just like some people don't like cats. Some people don't like animals as pets at all and that's.....ok.

Anja - posted on 12/01/2010

It's really too bad you don't like animals!! I feel that every child should grow-up with an animal (to learn how to love, respect & take care of something).
The dog is doing all those things cause she's not getting the proper attention (your not training her) Google or read some books on how to train a boxer!!! As far as letting her go, SHAME ON YOU...so she can get hit by a car or picked up by animal control and taken to a shelter, where she will be killed!!! (shelter's use heart-stick & gassing methods). By the way, Shame on the grandmother for breeding dogs...millions die in shelters every yr cause of breeders & ignorant ppl!!
You are over re-acting (grow-up) it's a dog, learn to luv her!! Dogs can be great friends...too bad you never learnt that!!!!!!!!

Patricia - posted on 12/01/2010

Well....before the "Dog" was "YOU!" Thats the way I see it...if he isn't the one home all the time having to take out the dog (OMG and in an apartment I might add...means you have to stand outside with the dog in rain sleet and snow while this thing decides to drop it!!! lol ) someone should constantly monitor puppies!!! I would seriously make this statement to him: Look unless "you" are here all the time with the "dog" training it...taking it outside...disciplining it when it does something bad then....the dog is going to have to go! A pet should be a decision that "two people" in a relationship make "together!" Regardless of who gave him the puppy....the plain fact of the matter is...YOU have been the one that seems to be stuck with HIS puppy most of the time and truly that is very selfish and unfair to you...since it was not your choice to adopt this puppy.
No you are NOT a horrible person...you are not a person who wishes NOT to be horrified by an "out of control animal" such as a puppy. I see a lot of people today who have pets...and THATS all it is... they have them. They do not take time to train them...love them and nurture them the way a pet should be treated. it would be the same if it were a child...its a HUGE responsibility no questions about it! I feel bad for you because I too went through a very simular situation when I was married...but I was "married" so I basically sucked it up and told the children it would their responsibility to take the dog out and clean up after it as well.
What is your working schedules? Are you home more than he is during the day? There has to be some sorta compromise here....that puppy is NOT your problem.
Talk...Talk and TALK to him until youre blue in the face! HE is the one who wanted it in the first place...therefore HE should be the one taking care of it! Get a kennel for it at night....thats what my son had to do with his dogs....he also places them in kennels while he and his wife work. then let your fiance come home and have to take that kennel bottom outside every night and spray it off with the water hose.....in the winter time that should be fun to WATCH!!! hahaha!!
Best wishes to ya gf!!
Bless you!!
Hang in there!!!

Jackie - posted on 12/01/2010

Tell your husband that keeping a 6 month old boxer couped up in an apartment is actually being cruel to the dog. They NEED to be able to run around. Good luck!

Kimberly - posted on 11/30/2010

I know this is off subject but I'm glad he's going to get help. I lost one of my best friends due to a drug overdose. I hadn't talked to her in about a yr. b4 she passed when I found out she was using again. I didnt want me or my family around that. She wasnt herself at all. Now I'll never have a chance to talk to her again and I feel horrible. Stick by him...In going through all this, he will def. need support so I'm glad to see you doing that. As for the dog thing, I wasnt a big dog person and my husband had a dog b4 we got together. All the behaviors you say your dog shows is exactly how his does (only their boston terriers). He had 2 when we got together but one got hit by a car and after seeing how hurt my husband was about it, I could never get rid of the other one. It wasnt that I hated the dog personally, its just the behavior and tearing stuff up and having to clean it all up. Its just difficult and can get frustrating when you have 2 kids to clean up after 2. Maybe things'll get better for yall and ur able to come to terms...Good Luck!!!

Nete - posted on 11/30/2010

The ranch sounds like a perfect solution ...glad you got some light in the tunnel, sorry abt his drug addiction ..great he is trying to kick it, but if he dont.. just remember (from the looks of your pix) you are a beautiful young girl and have lots of options ...incl. all of your life ahead of you ... (that's great value)
Never forget any ship have to have a set of directions in order to reach its destination....
you need to be the captain of you ship at all times, without that your just floating on the sea, its so easy to get sucked into the Monday morning routine..that often we tend to loos sight of our direction
-- now in my young days I once had a BF ..whom I adored and thought I could ''safe'' from himself and his bad choices... over the years I have encountered many GF who had similar missions ...
IT can not be done... unless he himself wants it truly
guess what im trying to say is ..that you need to be the ALFA leader under your roof ..weather he is sober or not... the shoes belong to you! best of luck XX

Teresa - posted on 11/30/2010

Glad to hear it sounds like things will work out. Good luck to your fiance staying clean!!! :)

Maan - posted on 11/30/2010

I got same problem with our dog( my stepson's dog to start with) it cause alot of arguments and to the point that I could make that dog his pie. I was on my 1st semester of pregnancy when my husband decide that he will keep the dog than to have it taken at the k9. I don't want it coz I've sen how dirty and bad this dig but just for my husband happiness I let it in. It chew everything on the house and piss and pooh every where which my hormonal imbalance couldn't take it any more. We did get dig trainer but still there is no improvement, I tried everything...and now my son is 18 months old still doing the same. I think you should get a dig trainer and if doesn't work just let go of him somewhere or take him to the k9 without your husband knowlede, Dog may be gone but it will save your relationship with your husband and save your family and sanity

Joy - posted on 11/30/2010

Well, best of luck to you Iysha. I know from personal experience that drug addiction can be a tough thing to overcome. I also understand what you mean about him not being himself right now. When I got clean, I went through the same thing. A person truly isn't "themselves" for awhile. In fact, the person will never be exactly like they were before. Instead, they have to learn to be a whole new person and it can be a struggle getting there. I'm glad you found a good solution for the dog. I'll keep you in my thoughts :)

Iysha - posted on 11/30/2010

Hey ladies. Thanks for the advice and information on dogs and the particular breeds =] It was all very helpful. I understand now why she isnt as calm and obedient as my parent's golden retriever...understanding the born from a different breed saying. lol.

My fiance is currently recovering from a drug addiction, he just finished treatment and is very on edge, a lot of his comments he makes are comments he wouldnt make normally. It's hard to deal with because I am not used to his behavior....on methadone he was "normal" and when he was on drugs, well, we got the dog.... He was on Methadone to ease withdrawal and he has been going through physical withdrawal for almost a week, so that's where that comes from...not the ideal situation, but it's better than it was.Not too long before he acts normal again per doctor. To the one who asked, yup, my daughter is his. We are now moving back to our home state and to his home town and will be living on his grandmother's property and she may keep the dog after we leave her property in a few months. I would have liked to do training but we cant afford it. She has a ranch and they are retired and have the time, patience and money to spend on Roxy. He and my daughter can visit anytime they want too since when we move from her property, we will still live in the same town. It is a big relief to me.

Fallon - posted on 11/29/2010

OMG this sounds very familiar. Me and my ex husband lived in an apartment and he "promised" if we got a dog he would do it all. SO we got a..boxer, pretty but I hated her because I had to take care of her and he did nothing except hit her for whimpering or peeing on the floor. I finally got him to agree that if I found her a good home we could get rid of her, she was gone the next day. Better than craigslist is posting a flyer offering a free dog with a free kennel by the apartment mailbox. One day is all took to find a new home for the horrible dog who I resented. It may not have saved my marriage, but it got that flipping dog out of my house. Try it, it might work and a benefit to having someone in your apartments take it is that he will see it every once in a while and feel like it has a better home.

Teresa - posted on 11/29/2010

If he'd rather keep the dog then you.... why are you staying? I'm extremely against divorce, etc...., but if he would actually say that he would have you leave before the dog.... there are more important issues to worry about other than the dog. :(

Do NOT just let that dog out to be hit by a car or whatever? Sell it, give it away, take it to the Humane Society, something... IF you are going to get rid of it anyway that is. Good luck!

Nete - posted on 11/29/2010

DOG whisper on animal TV (free training) is great and his techniques works well and fast ....but it doesn't really sound like you in to spending the time training the little fellow.
I get it ...after having owned large dogs and raised a few sets of puppies over the past 20 years ...I'm now raising twins (toddler) ha ha ha ..
NOT Funny ...toddlers and dogs ... just not a great idea ... I clearly remember reading an article at the Doc's office, while pregnant about this woman who had gone from loving her one and only most loyal companion - to hating her dog...and I thought '' What a royal B, how could she? ...and I swore that would never happen to me) ...
ok so I don't hate my dog ...but boy I understand, where that woman was coming from and I have thought about her often, while trying to rescue little fingers out of dog hair and bananas or frantically running for a bottle at 3 am only to find my dog has relieved himself on the kitchen floor in protest over the shared attention and that's not to talk about barking at the door during the kids bedtime ... ''sometimes I just want to turn him into a rug''...
so I do get you frustration and I'm a dog lover so I can only imagine ....
If at all possible try to consider that the little fellow is a soul and a loving soul ..confused, feeling unwanted and unloved, just trying to find his spot in the world, his teething and just like your kids he can't talk and express himself... he needs love and attention like most of us ...
clearly it would be best to find him a dog loving home *( I think I saw another post from a woman looking for a dog on here?)
2)...your not married yet ...seriously think twice before you go there, if that's your fiances attitude already now.. it's not worth wasting your dress on!
is your kid his? ...seriously your not in a good place and I know this because I once told my ex husband ..that ''he was gone,.. before the dog'' and I meant it..
best decision I ever made...still got the dog and a new happier life ...never looked back and never regretted my choice ...but we didn't have kids.
Maybe you should take the dog, over your fiance :o)
that little soul, no matter what pain in as@ the puppie stage can be ...is the most LOYAL, forever loving and forgiving, always by your side live teddy bear you will ever encounter to wipe away all your tears and put a smile on your face when you least expect it ....
and it don't really sounds like your fiance truly cares about anyone else but himself ...
its unfair to you and the dog ...
even if you do find a home for the dog....then what? it wont change his inconsideration
sorry its not my intent to upset you ...
but you need a U turn to change the course
go to you moms w the kid and tell him that you will return, once he has found a loving home for the dog
- if he don't ..you need to thankful that you didn't waist more of your valuable time on a guy who didn't really love you .... move on and do not look back
If he do place the dog...then you get the upper hand and respect back in the relationship..
its the only way you can come out on top with this ..
best of luck :o)

Sneaky - posted on 11/29/2010

Thanks for clarifying that Kate - I was NOT implying that you could dump you dog at the local vet office! I just suggested that you could ring around, I think most vet offices (if they have the time) will be happy to talk to you and let you know if they have clients who are looking for a new dog. In my experience most vets are happy to help you (either because they know someone is looking or because they have a client who has lost a beloved companion) but all you can do is ASK them and let them know you have a puppy that is looking for a new home. Finding a new home for her will of course be easier if she is up-to-date on all her vaccinations, is micro-chipped and spayed.

Sharon - posted on 11/29/2010

I'm with Joanna on that, your hubby is the one that can't grow up. Even if you move out to your Mum's for a while and let him deal with his dog, then he might see things from your view point. Good luck, hope you can sort something out.

Firebird - posted on 11/29/2010

"He actually told me that if I dont like her than I can leave, that If I'm going to make a big deal out of us having a dog and cant just grow up, I can leave"

You know what? If any man told me to leave like that, I would. Can't get rid of the dog, fine I'm gone. What an ass. I would have started packing up me and the kid the very minute he said it. That being said, I think Kate's got some really great advice.

Kelina - posted on 11/29/2010

I completely agree with Kate, spay her cause you probably don't want puppies or the vet bill for a pregnant dog either, and try puppy classes. My sister is in a similar situation. Believe it or not she did let the dog out one day because she simply could not handle it anymore and the dog came home! This was incredibly lucky as they live right next to a highway. Anyways, a little off topic, but my SIL had a nightmare dog the first time around as well, so when they got a second dog they did puppy classes and I honestly can't believe the difference. If you really can't do puppy classes you need to sit your fiance down and make him understand how this is impacting you, your relation ship, and your ability to be the best mom you can be. If you are tired, frustrated and angry, your little one will pick up on that and respong accordingly, as will your dog. That's when all hell really breaks loose! You could also try leaving him at home for a day on the weekend while you go out and relax or hang out with friends and he can see what you deal with all day. Dogs are a lot of work. I've got two!

Kate CP - posted on 11/29/2010

Heather: That was completely and totally unhelpful. Good job!

Heather - posted on 11/29/2010

Wow, you sound awfully cruel about this. It's a dog! However maybe this is a test, if obviously he loves animals and you dont then its going to continue to be a problem. Figure it out.

Kate CP - posted on 11/29/2010

Most vets are NOT happy to re-home dogs. They are swamped with legitimate veterinary issues and have no time to run a rescue organization.

Kate CP - posted on 11/29/2010

Don't panic-I'm a dog trainer.

First of all just dumping the dog some where or opening the door and letting her go is actually against the law. You will be subject to court fees and possible community service if you do that. In my city it's a $2,000 fine plus community service and a misdemeanor on your record for dumping or abandoning an animal. So...don't abandon the dog. Secondly, this was not a fair move your fiance made AT ALL. Any rescue group you adopt a dog from will ask if the ENTIRE family agrees to getting a dog and if the answer is no you're put on a "do not adopt" list. Your fiance made a serious error in judgement and because of it his family and this poor animal is suffering.
Thirdly...he managed to get a mixed breed dog that has two breeds KNOWN for being difficult puppies: boxers and heelers. They are very high energy and heelers tend to nip at ankles because that's how they are bred to herd cattle. She's a menace because she's in the terrible twos for puppies. The upside is with proper care and training she will grow out of it and probably be a fantastic family pet. The down side is it can take up to a year to a year and a half for a larger breed dog (including mixes) to reach that calm, adult stage.

My professional recommendation is this: Spay the dog if she's not spayed already. That may help calm her down a little bit. Next, if you can afford it and have the time get a training class for the two of you (fiance and you) to attend. Find a sitter for the kiddo because she's just too young and you won't be able to concentrate on the dog and what you're learning if she's there. Next...put your foot down. NO MORE PETS. PERIOD. If he brings home another pet report him to the landlord and tell them you don't want more pets but he keeps bringing them home. If you just absolutely cannot work with the dog or this situation you can email me or private message me and I will see if I can find a rescue organization in your area who can take the dog and put you on a do not adopt list so this doesn't happen again. Good luck, try to stay calm, and don't be afraid to leave the dog in the crate for a few hours at a time. She is safer in there than she is running amok in your home.

Sneaky - posted on 11/29/2010

Look, I don't get the not liking dog thing (obviously I am a dog lover) but I do get that you have a burden in your home that you can't (and should not have to) live with so I am going to give some advice from the dogs point of view.

She is a puppy, and part heeler (working dog) to boot - she needs HOURS of exercise a day and a BIG backyard to play in. If your husband really, truly cared for and loved that dog and wanted the best for her he would not be leaving her cooped up in an apartment all day. That dog needs training and exercise and room to play and since you and your husband are not in a position to provide it then keeping the dog is cruel to the dog. Try explaining it to him like that - even ring your local vet, talk to the receptionist (or ask if the vet tech/nurse can ring you back when available) and talk to them about the situation - they will give you the same options that the other ladies here have outlined BUT they will also be able to give you all the reasons why keeping a high energy dog in an apartment is a VERY bad idea. Your husband can't argue with veterinary advice can he? Particularly if he really does want what is best for the dog.

BTW, dogs aren't stupid. She knows that you don't like her so she can't be happy either. If your husband really can't see that then you might be better off moving to your mum's and letting him leave a puppy in an apartment all day without company. I'd give it three days tops before he decided to get rid of the dog himself.

Just to make it clear - I don't judge you, you are allowed to not like dogs! I do think your husband is an immature jerk for putting you in this situation though. I also approve of the 'take it to the shelter and tell him it ran away' plan. It is not more deceptive than the situation he has put you in now. But aside from the shelters you can contact the local vets in your area and see if they would be willing to re-home her for you. Most vets are happy to do this as long as the pet is healthy and has no behavioral issues and is free to a good home :o)

Good luck.

Stifler's - posted on 11/29/2010

I would get rid of the dog during the day and tell him she ran away.

Christy - posted on 11/29/2010

This sounds like a power play on your husband's part, he wants the upper hand and currently has it.
Are there other issues than the dog going on in your marriage? Can you take a step back and look at it for what it really is (which I am not sure what that is, BTW)? I think the other issues have to be addressed before the dog issue can be. It almost sounds like he is being passive/aggressive about it, ya know?

Joy - posted on 11/29/2010

Sorry, I missed the post about you possibly being able to give the dog back to his Grandma. If that's a possibility then it's win-win :)

Joy - posted on 11/29/2010

First of all, I don't think you should have gotten the dog to begin with since you weren't both on the same page. It's almost like a child....both people have to be in agreement about having one or there will be serious problems. I feel for you girl. My husband wants a dog and I'm totally NOT a dog person. I'm a bitch about it though and keep putting my foot down lol



Him telling you that you can leave is for sure inappropriate and I'm sorry he said it and hurt your feelings. I have a friend who is in a very similar situation. Her husband wanted a dog. She didn't. He came home one day with one anyway. She's miserable. Going through a lot of what you're going through except her daughter is 11. She literally HATES the dog and is miserable.



In a situation like that, where one person (you) is so adamantly against the dog, I think you have to figure out a way to get the dog to someone else. Please don't open your door and just let it go....that's not fair to the dog. But you HAVE to find a way to get your husband to see where you're coming from. How to do that, I don't know. Like I said, I'm a bitch about it and flat out say NO.



Some people (myself included) just are NOT dog lovers and a lot of dog lovers don't get it. Hell, I used to be a cat person big time before I had my son and now I don't even think I'm a cat person because at least once a week I ponder the idea of putting up "Free to Good Home" signs but I know no one will take them.



You know, you could always take the dog to a no kill shelter and not tell your husband. Tell him the dog ran away or something. I know it's deceptive but that way the dog gets a chance at a good life, you get your sanity back and your husband knows no better. Actually, you doing that is really no worse than him "convincing" you to get the dog and then not living up to his end of the deal. I know it is because of his work but still....you're stuck with the exact burden you didn't want.



Edited to add: Yes, they have no kill shelters. You have to specifically ask when you call. Just google "no kill animal shelters" in your area and you should get a list. The only problem is that the no kill shelters usually have a waiting list. Even if you have to take her to a shelter that isn't no kill, if she's as pretty as you say, it shouldn't be too hard for her to be adopted out.

Laura - posted on 11/29/2010

First of all you are not really over-reacting to the dog. You made it clear BEFORE the dog was acquired that you do not like animals and would not care for it. There is nothing wrong with not liking animals, by the way, many people are even afraid of them. Your fiance's comment about "growing up" in order to like or accept the dog is, in and of itself, a rather juvenile response. Your fiance did not consider your feelings or concerns about the dog and wound up leaving you with a responsibility that you made very clear that you did not want or choose. It is perfectly understandable that you are angry and frustrated by this situation.

Just letting the dog go, however, is not only cruel, but an irresponsible and possibly illegal way to solve your problem. At the very least take the animal to your local Humane Shelter or no-kill rescue shelter. Even older puppies like your dog usually adopt out very quickly. That is the responsible way to handle ridding yourself of the dog.

If you choose to take the dog to the shelter though, be prepared for you fiance to not only be extremely angry with you but to retrieve it as well. He has made his feelings perfectly clear about the dog--he is emotionally attached to it and "yes", may very well pick the dog over you. If you get rid of the dog, especially without him present, it most likely will be more than a month or two for him to get over that, if at all, because its his feelings he's concerned with, not your happiness. If he truly said the things you stated, then take them seriously! It seems to me you have more things to worry about than just the dog...Hope this helps a bit and good luck to you.

Morgan - posted on 11/29/2010

This is a hard one for me, I agree letting her out is a bad idea but you get that, no kill shelters are out there but not very many, it sounds to me like this dog needs some training, maybe then you could both live in peace. Dogs are a huge responsibility it sucks that your husband put that on you!!

Iysha - posted on 11/29/2010

They have no kill shelters? that's good...then maybe he'll be more suseptable to me taking her there. I honestly dont care what happens to her, like i said, I am no animal lover. He came home at lunch and I hadnt cleaned up everything she did so he actually said, "We'll see." which is the best response I've had from him so far...
Today he also brought up moving back to his hometown again so I'll suggest giving her to his grandma since Roxy's mom died. At lest there she can run around and not be so abnoxious and destructive since they have a ranch. Guess it's good I didnt just let her out.

Thanks. I guess it was kind of a bad idea, I wasnt thinking of her causing an accident or something, just getting rid of her.

Amy - posted on 11/29/2010

Well why don't you put the ad on craigslist and find her a home or find a no kill shelter! If you open the door and she gets hit by a car you're going to feel better about that then dropping her off at a shelter where someone might adopt her?? Your logic makes no sense since animal control will just pick her up and put her in the shelter anyway! Besides if she causes an accident and they can figure out who owned her your liable to get sued for the damages plus be fined for not following leash laws. Also if she has a chip they're going to returner anyway! Sorry but you should just take her to the shelterand if he goes and gets her then you know his choice!

Iysha - posted on 11/29/2010

It's to the point that I am actually considering moving to my mother's home and letting him live with his dog...

Iysha - posted on 11/29/2010

I did, Amy...I told him that's what I wanted to do...she's a pretty dog, I doubt anyone wouldnt take her in. He will not get rid of her, not on Craigslist, Not on Freecycle, We dont know anyone in our town....let alone anyone who wants a dog, the Pound will kill her if she's not adopted...he comes up with something everytime I suggest anything. Letting her out is like my last resort. I'd rather be cruel than miserable...I can be a cruel happy person for all I care...He will not listen to any suggestion as to how to let her go. AND when he is home and not sleeping (4 hours out of the day) he is yelling at her and smacking her to stop her from doing bad things...but he LOVES this dog? I do think she would be better off with another family...but how do I get HIM to realize that? I am literally losing my mind.

Amy - posted on 11/29/2010

To open the door and just let her go is cruel! If you really want to get rid of her tell your fiancé what you plan to do so he can find the dog a home where everyone loves her not just 2/3 of the family!